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New impeachment witnesses link bribery plot to Mulvaney


We begin tonight with breaking news in the impeachment probe bombshell testimony just released undercutting. Donald Trump's core impeachment defense the investigation allegation also drawing closer to the top of trump's inner circle newly released testimony shows two witnesses pointing the finger at Mick Mulvaney chief of staff a witness with with firsthand knowledge of the now infamous phone call between trump and the leader Ukraine. The army officer Alexander van men who also is that the White House as a staffer Afra who also has a purple heart. Well he's testifying now in what we're seeing in detail. The entire plan was to dangle that trump's alinsky meeting as a way to get Ukraine to do the political investigations into Biden and that it was cooked up by Mulvaney than men testifying that there was a conversation with Mulvaney and this is what was required in order to get a meeting. They had to deliver an investigation. Then men saying. The bribery was explicit. No ambiguity according to other testimony testimony released today this from another National Security Council official Fiona Hill Mulvaney also was all up in the negotiation sauna and repeatedly saying he was meeting with Mulvaney and that they already had an arrangement for the big meeting to be worked out with guests who Mulvaney Hill says that she was shocked by all of this and the the bribery was blatant as mentioned adding that seeing the president undermine national security was basically fulfilling some of her worst fears and Nightmares Mick Mulvaney Who is of course the person who stepped to that podium and committed the full Mulvaney and then took it back? He is clearly a central figure in this whole impeachment pro. He contradicted what Donald Trump had been saying. Up to that point about the infamous call. There was no boy fro wall. There was nothing. Thank you also mentioned to me in past the corruption related to the DNC server. Absolutely no question about that. There was no quid. Pro Quo at all shift. You just described is a quid pro. We do that all the time with foreign policy was no we grow like. That's it and that's why we held up the money to paraphrase famous. Saying the fact checks are coming from inside the White House. Now that's a lot of heat on Mick Mulvaney who's already already pulled the full mulvaney walked back and is under demand to appear to explain all this by the way you kind of hurt your privilege claims when you go out and do big press conferences about the stuff that you might later. Argue is executive privilege but Mulvaney no-show before Congress impeachment. Investigators say today. He informed them literally quote one minute it before. He was due to testify that the White House had ordered him formerly not to appear. Meanwhile Ms Hill says that she spoke with her supervisor. Remember John Bolton who told older the Biden investigations should not be any part of this whole discussion and told her to report what she was hearing about. This bribery plot to the actual lawyer. Who deals with these things? Things John Eisenberg and also tell him that I am not part of whatever drug deal Solomona Mulvaney. There's that staffer again. Mulvaney are cooking hooking up on this now. Congress wants to talk to Bolton as he is a key witness about what went down both before and after this now infamous phone call at the heart of the impeachment probe nope bones own lawyer adding today that Bolton knows about all sorts of quote relevant meetings on Ukraine. It's a lot and I want to get right to our power panel on this Friday tonight Mark Thompson host the make plain podcast Tony Schwartz Co author of the art of the deal and the way we're working isn't working and we were so excited to have back on our program program. Peggy Noonan former speech writer for president. Reagan a columnist for the Wall Street Journal the Pulitzer Prize winner and many more things. Nice to see all of you. Hello Hello I'm here if I sound more excited about Peggy than you. She's a first among equals. I'm not not picking and I'll defer as well peggy. You've been inside a White House. Yeah that also battled all sorts of questions about at times foreign policy. who was doing what? How high did it go when you see this barrage of pressure particularly on the chief of staff? What do you think comes next? Of course the big the thing that comes next is the hearings that will sort of Orient us by making all of this public in terms of people coming forward you get to know their name. Their face who they are as someone who's been in a White House you can't help but wonder if in this case somebody isn't being set setup for a fall you know when white houses get in trouble sometimes they of a way of spontaneously deciding who caused the trouble on the inside and offering them up as a sacrificial lamb so I wonder if. We're not seeing a little bit of this hugging Mulvaney to paraphrase the final episode of succession on. HBO This year. There may need to be a blood sacrifice. Yes I think. White houses sometimes inevitably think that way. Oh heck human when beings will in great organizations will human beings organizations will sometimes feel that way. But I'll tell you what one of the things that I think is happening here. I don't know if you guys agree with this. But on some level I'm losing track of all of the actors in the drama. Are you finding ending that at all. There's a kernel coming forward. There's a former ambassador. There's a current embassador. There's an under embassador at a certain point. These things get a little blurry. I'm hoping that in the public airings things will become more definite and more clear and the meaning of what is being said the very to everybody. I think there are two tracks here. I think there is the actual set of facts if you look at the set of facts. It's as if if we're having the Thanksgiving parade and trump has gotten onto fifth avenue and he has literally shot a series of people in called blood. And all those people who've been telling you've parade floats okay. The stayed intact. Okay Yeah but a lot of people have died and a lot of people were there to witness it and it was very clear or what happened. So it's an open and shut case at this point the second track however is the surrounding rounding those eye-witnesses are trump supporters who he accurately said and continues to be the case would ignore it. If shot people on Fifth Avenue. I mean we see that even with his biggest enablers with people like Lindsey Graham where they'll say things that are so preposterously stir Asli untrue. Unless you want to live in an altered reality there's no way to take them seriously. Well so so. Let's play out the parade and I'm going to come back to Peggy. I'm not a body body language expert but I did note some potential dissent with that view. So we'll come back to you tomorrow if that is the case if the difference Prince between this and other controversies may be that as we just showed Mick. Mulvaney won't talk to Congress to say the thing that he already said in public. which is we do it all the time? What then is the priority for the impeachment investigation to do something credible to provide due process style rights to everyone but also to move ahead ahead with telling the country what they think they've found occurred but I think they've indicated that they don't want to haggle in the courts about people? Dying subpoenas plus is a I bet big of a deal of Mulvaney shows up and not because he actually said it on television would already happen in terms of of the Blur Innis can be overwhelming. The average person probably can't keep up with all the names but was not blurry is it. They're all corroborating the same story. The White House is obsessed over to deep. Throat's Nixon had one you have anonymous automous and you have a whistleblower. That's too deep throats but they don't even matter anymore because so many people publicly and we even learned for more of the transcripts today Veneman. I'm Anne Hill Taylor Silane. All of them have said the same thing. So it really doesn't even matter the whistle blower anymore doesn't matter who anonymously is and it also doesn't make that big of a deal that much of a difference if Mulvaney shows up let me let me just say I have good news and good news news. The good news is if you're thinking that there are a lot of different pieces to this we have a breakdown later in this show or write a very clearly shows who were the witnesses to watch the other. Good good news is before I bring in some more testimony which I want to report on. I give Miss Noonan the promised rebuttal. It's not a rebuttal. I was thinking a- as Tony was speaking both of these things. which seem opposites are true one is with the movement and action of people going coming in and testifying and all that stuff with a lot of pieces to this puzzle with a lot of actors in the drama? There's a certain amount of blurred that is happening but there's something else that's happening and it is going to be part of the challenge for the hearings next week. It is the the hearings are dedicated to proving something. Something that I think most American observers who are watching closely don't even doubt I don't happen to think. Republicans and diets are in deep disagreement on whether or not the president of the United States in a phone call but also in other ways was muscling. Sling the president of Ukraine to give him a political gift that he desired. And what the President Ukraine would get in return for that would be previously congressionally authorized funds. The check would be cut. This is of sorry I have to tell you why this I just think this is kind of clear to people. For instance when this whole story broke with the whistle blower nobody who support reported the president. Nobody in the White House. Nobody in Congress came forward and said that doesn't sound like the president. Would it happened. Everybody loves trump. Thought he'd do that. And those who don't like trump and and that speaks to what many people coin debasement of the Office of the presidency by this individual which is not a dismissal of all of his supporters are all of his ideas but it is funny as it is funny the and sad that Peggy says something that I think everyone can relate to which is a lot of folks went. Yup that sounds like the sad part to me. I mean trump is just one guy and trump is at some point. Trump's going to be out of here but the fact that forty plus percent of Americans in the face of and I completely the agree. They know that he's guilty. And this is the key thing. They don't care they don't care. Do whatever you want to do do now. That's not a logical deductive decision that is an emotion and that emotion has completely overwhelmed. Forty percent of America. I'd like to be more optimistic optimistic about that. And I know where you're saying that I mean some of the numbers have shown there but I think Tuesday gives us some sign of optimism. That there aren't as many people who willing just to give him that free pass and say it's okay if you shoot somebody or threatened. The president from another country remains to be seen. We'll see About a year from now as possible ars learners. I think the public testimony hopes that because starting next week we'll be able to put faces substitute for people sing personalities and sincerety ready and and all of that so you know. I think that he'll and you talk about the personalities many of them as we've emphasizing our reporting are trump people trump trump loyalists trump appointees. John Bolton is a hot right if he were any more of a hawk he would literally take flight and and if he does this being the Hawk that he is being I mean he's an established part of that wing if he comes forward and says this on top of everybody else. That's pretty damning damage. Nixon had one. Say is cancelling the presidency. But you have the potential of a whole lot that well we were talking about this today. We were talking about. We don't know whether John Molton may turn out to be a John Dean type figure or something else. We John. Bolton has muscular view of presidential powers may say mistake yes impeachable. Not so sure what I WANNA do. Is All of you stay but one thing we try to do is parcel it out here. And so there's one more piece of news I want to get your reaction on. This is all about sunland. Who liked bolden is a trump one person Fiona hill saying that's on the trump donor told her quote? He was in charge of Ukraine. And she said on WHO's at Dory he said the president. This is now impeachment pitchman evidence because of everything that went downhill also saying she saw us on as a target for foreign powers. Who basically telling me I can get you into the White House? All this comes as Solomon makes the bombshell Tom show reversal in his own testimony. Just this week. He started by defending the president but ultimately conceded that bribery plot saying he told Ukraine No. US aid money any without the investigation trump wanted and that brings us up to what we were just talking about. Is it blurry are there lies. Will Donald trump backing away as he's done with other other people who have served him up to a point because look at this Donald Trump recently describing silent as someone he knew to be a good man. And a great American Ericson and now all of a sudden today he says this let me just tell you I hardly know the gentleman but this is the man who said there there was no quid pro quo. Had he still says that. He said that I said that and he has. Jj Testimony Tony. This is the person that you wrote the deal with this person who will extract what he can from people and then say with a straight face. I hardly know them and they're the worst. I lie for a living. I mean it comes to him. He can't tell the truth. He's almost literally at this point incapable of telling the truth what what happens with trump. Is that anything that arises that in any way. Alters alters his self image he will reactively come up with something from thin air and now we have we have thirteen thousand lives. But I'd like to know how many troops we have. How many times does he told the truth during the last three? We should start counting that I do because it's an easier count. It could do it on one or two hands and they were accidental. I trying to think of a time. He has told the truth. What what I've noticed though is I wonder if you found on this to be true to that he has to resort? He's like a child and David Johnson wrote about that. He's still the child that his parents dropped off in military Tori school and it's like he never grew out of that so he has to a check people personally that's why he's so fascinated with getting names and if he can't attack thank you personally. He says he doesn't. He doesn't even know who you are. I mean that's to me. Just an immature way of functioning. He knows a situation that he's in so call somebody a bunch of names always going to say. I've never met him. I don't know who it is and it just doesn't dawn on him. You know one of the worst things a human being could be is non self uh-huh for wear and this is probably one of the most non self-aware individuals in human history. But you know those who you feel passionately. Supportive of the president. Do not think that his enemies are necessarily truthful. Oh people that his enemies are going at him for high-minded reason have they have high minded reasons having to do with protecting the public look good. They think his enemies are going after him for merely partisan low political reasons and so this first thing becomes a big punch out. I mean what do you think I think this is an unusual president. Who has done what John Kelly? His former Chief of staff told him he would do if he didn't clean up his act which is summoned through his actions An impeachment tient movement in the Congress. But I don't think it does any good to make believe that that the the president is the only one heart ever does some wrong here. I think his enemies of sometimes to tell you the truth. I think in Congress There are a lot of people who have in their rage and sometimes in their mischief towards the president given their own case. kind of the bed. Look to at least half the country. For instance Adam Schiff looks like a partisan guy he is partisan sir. Okay well he is. He's a democrat. Well I understand that but you know you have to run something unlike this an impeachment proceeding in a way like Peter Road Dino Rand Watergate When he was the head of of judiciary he did it in a very careful way that included Republicans that took it kind of put his arms around them? He wound up getting a a lot of Republican support for the articles of impeachment that he supported. You'll have different time. You've been in the hearings a half to do this. You have to be the road dino He's a pretty sense of passion but with a sense of sadness. Yeah he's a Congressman Schiff. I'm sorry it's a pretty. He's a pretty straightforward non emotional monotone K. I don't think you can get in. I think the things that are coming up. I really appreciate the seriousness that you eat your dialoguing with each other. There's a lot of monologue and there's a lot of noise quite frankly. This was a dialogue Al for anyone at home listening. who heard something thought? I disagree with that good good because it was more than one view on this panel. So you couldn't possibly agree with all of it. It's a nice way to start the weekend again. During Tumultuous Times Tony Comes back with the Harlem. Rapper Davies later in the show. Mark of Peggy. I hope you come back at a future date we'll Thanks to all of you fit in a break and then as mentioned. I'm coming up. With special report connecting the evidentiary dogs. We got this week on. The bribery will really explain everything. We hope also new reports Juliana really ought indicted associates dangling a state visit for the agreement President in exchange for those investigations and later. I have some thoughts on the new claims by quote anonymous missile and where they come up short all that. Plus as mentioned fullback Friday with Dave East. And Tony Schwartz. Look at that. I can't wait I'm Ari Melber. It's Friday and you're watching the beat on. MSNBC WAS NBC. Contour from Cox has all your favorites all in one place and with the contour remote you can use your voice voiced to fund them on live. TV On demand and streaming APPs like netflix prime video and more see Cox dot com for details in new testimony revealed. The impeachment inquiry today to officials added this growing evidence of bribery detailing specific rewards. Trump's team offered Ukraine from the political help that trump wanted all part of the case. That trump was demanding demanding a bribe to help his reelection one aid recounting how she witnessed trump ambassador sunland saying a meeting with Ukrainians hinged on if they would go forward with the political investigations another recounting how quote deliverable trump sought was the investigation into the Biden's so this week is ending like it began with more more evidence and more firsthand accounts of this bribery plot. But that's not all the tapping right now. We want to show you how the witnesses they're not only adding up but how some witnesses are impacting other witnesses and moving where they stand on this important story and we mentioned in our reporting earlier this week. That if you divide the trump camp up between the people denying bribery and the people just admitting it it's not that only more people are admitting it. It's as these accounts go public. Some of the people who used to try to deny it have also been compelled to admit it in terms of the players. We know you could say things are moving towards the ambassador. Bill Taylor's of the world. That's the first person that we know of who objected to this. Whole thing and away you from the Donald Trumps of the world so as promised? Now let me show you some of our new reporting on this starting with how we got here. We made an animated chart. It's pretty clear and it's GonNa get pretty damning. It all starts this summer. Trump ambassador sunland pushing for the probes. But then insisting there was no quid. Quid pro quo quid. Pro Quo bribery. This was before of course. There wasn't impeachment when Ukraine but even in private ambassador. Taylor will you see up there on the right objected. He was the one who famously texted sunland about this being a bribery plot. So you had those two camps bribery and no bribery. And then boom the whistle. So blower joins the bribery chorus filing a complaint about this Ukraine bribery plot. Now that's pretty simple at that point. Those were the battle lines. Some people people involved said it was a bribery plot. Other people apparently involved denied it. That's kind of a split case now. Back to our chart. Enter trump aide Mick Mulvaney to admit the bribery plot famously. Saying quid pro quo. Bribery happens all the time. In a televised spectacle. Gaffe of historic proportion. Could that last bruins staffer at the White House. Stay in that camp. No here you see Mulvaney migrating over to the no bribery camp. Because after that press conference he reversed himself later the same day and now claims no bribery. So however absurd that retraction. That was the last last time. The White House had several top people standing by trump's defense. Here Mulvaney was well. Pretty damage. Solomon may be suspicious but they were all united in the know. Bribery Defense Now here's where things get really ugly for trump. Take a look. Because the new testimony reshape those alliances back to our chart. Army officer Vincent. Testifies there was bribery. Adam to that bribery camp and then a top official on trump's security council joins into detail bribery. And then here is the most important shift in all the testimony to date. It happened this week. Wait for it as Taylor and other tests when he goes public sauna and and moves over to join Taylor and all these other officials suddenly saying yes. This was bribery. This is the move silent. Basically basically updating is he put in his congressional testimony and going. Oh yeah all of a sudden I now recall the bribery plot. You're now looking at where things stand. Today silence moved over. Mulvaney wasn't the bribery camp and moved back on the left. That's what you have. You have donald trump and mulvaney already told the country there was bribery only retract. And you have trump on the right. You have a lot of other credible testimony so the group of people claiming no bribery is looking like a lonelier bunch against that growing number of officials who say they were in the room where it happened and what happened was bribery which is an impeachable. peachable offense what do prosecutors do with a case that has this kind of testimony. Evidence well veteran prosecutor. Jean Rossi tells us when we're back in just thirty seconds joining me now former federal prosecutor Jean Rossi. Thanks for being here. Happy Friday happy Friday. I had a panel earlier tonight to talk about how some of this can add up. I'd like your analysis as a prosecutor as we put back on the screen the finished product of how some of the testimony has realigned comment. Now Okay I. I tried cases for almost thirty years. And I gotta say this I when I was watching your chart on television I was reminded of many trials. I had that I supervised revised did myself and observed and I gotTa tell you this eighteen. USC Two thousand one is the bribery. Statute it is the bedrock doc of federal corruption crimes and the public integrity section of Bain Justice. If they are not watching your show they should because you just gave the opening statement for a charge against the pricing United States and Mauve eighty and several others for conspiracy. I see to violate the bribery statue. And here's what's most important about what you put up there on the left side of that chart you know. We'll put it on to go. Those two individuals in this is important. They didn't give any statements under oath. The ones on the right did in my experience experience when you put someone under oath in front of a judge a jury a jury grand jury amazing things happen happen so we make a great point right there. We divided the line and just thinking about what the claims are And we saw Mulvaney move and we saw a song and move. You're adding being a detail in your analysis as a prosecutor which is that everyone on the right has actually been compelled in person to give testimony under oath at this point Mr Mulvaney duck today absolutely and I know why he ducked it because he knows if he takes an oath and testifies in front of a preceding gene. Whether it's a trial or congress he knows that he cannot tell the truth he would have to commit perjury. Because you don't go from Sane gene in front of millions of people in the United States and throughout the world that it's done all the time quid pro quo arms for dirt and then back away. If they put him in a grand jury right now he would sing like a bird was in ten committee perjury. Does he have legal exposure. Yes there is a conspiracy are a you talked about it. In the beginning there is a conspiracy among the president. SMO- Vini Amy Giuliani Levin. Ebor and God knows how many others to engage in a scheme called arms for dirt where the President President of the United States is holding up funds to get dirt on his opponent. I WANNA say this go back to one thousand nine hundred forty four for a moment and imagine imagine. If President Franklin Roosevelt called Prime Minister Churchill and said Winston. I have four hundred million dollars. Don't WanNa give you for food and bullets and planes. But I'm not GonNa do it unless you give me dirt on Thomas Dewey and the Republican party he maybe Impeached and maybe people need a certain barrage of examples to get their head around it. Because when you lay it out like that both why we've learned what we've learned and we'll put it up one more time from these individuals Joel's why the people on the right are speaking and saying bribery. Even though they were loyal to trump right and the other is holding back. It's fascinating generosity. We'll be having you back. Thank you Sir Sir. Thank you so much up ahead of white out of fish. A White House official calling Giuliani a hand. Grenade on Ukraine. Will he speak to Congress and breaking news. On what Giuliani's he's indicted associates were doing before trump's plot. That's next we're back with reporting on this new test coming out today with Malcolm Nance intelligence analyst and author of the plot to betray America which comes out Tuesday November twelfth. Good evening to you. What do you see as important and what we're learning? And what are the animates about the history of this whole sorted plot the most important portent factor that. We're seeing here today certainly with the world. Today's breaking news because by the time we're finished there will be another one Is that this story. Goes back much further than this year. And I think what we're starting to see what the information about that Giuliani's associates had lobbied the previous president that to bring up this exact same story. Before's Alinsky shows that Donald Trump was afraid of biden much earlier and and said that he was going to create the strategic plan to take down Biden. Now where does that tie in it ties into Robert Muller and the entirety thirty of Vladimir Putin's plan to undermine the United States democracy. And why do I say that because now we see. Donald Trump doesn't do anything for Vladimir Putin unless of course it has been coordinated and agreed upon and we also learned this week that Putin and Viktor orb on the pro-moscow head of Hungary were both telling trump their version of what you crane was which was a corrupt pro-western a western democracy which they wanted to see undermined right. I tire story that I mean that goes that goes to some of this is so fact free because you have someone who is not at all interested in empirical facts so if you can create the smoke for the illusion that something hurts biden he welcomes it. He's obviously not fact checking that and if he's getting input from other people abroad or Giuliani or whomever if it if it works to his direction action and that's all he wants and Malcolm. I want to put that in the context of your analysis of this new Drug Wall Street Journal reporting. I mentioned earlier in the show but we haven't gotten to yet an associate of trump's personal lawyer back in February pressing the President Ukraine to open these investigations that would at benefit trump and then Giuliani associates. They may or may not have had this juice use but they were paying him and they'd had dangled a White House visit in exchange for similar pros. This is absolutely fascinating at that. Giuliani has had this story out there for a while which means before he went in February and had his associates discussing this operation may have been in in works for six months. Who knows when this real story started in a and again I think it starts with Paul Manafort Paul Manafort worked for the pro-moscow unique of each government? We find now that the entire trump team is pitching this story that it was Hillary Clinton that actually had Ukraine Crane hacked the servers in the twenty sixteen election. But it all runs Malcolm. You'RE GONNA innocent if you're going to hack yourself. Obviously you ask a random foreign country to help hack yourself to either foot. It's all it's all done to protect Vladimir Putin and to damage you know Ukraine for Vladimir Putin and they use I mean this is an ex. KGB spymaster he knows Giuliani's out there doing this. He's he's using pro-moscow oligarchs therefore he when he speaks to trump maneuvers trump into a position where he is going to get whatever. We're here to our own State Department. Our own Pentagon literally being cut out of the loop of something that affects US national security. It's breathtaking your experience here very relevant Mr Nancy. Thank you sir. My put up ahead a lot of talk about anonymous. I have a breakdown. And how it all addresses the Ukraine whistle blower. When we come back warning what do you do when someone offers you? A warrant could be helpful or ominous the political world is taking in this new warning from an anonymous trump critic alleging a senior official in the trump administration. That's that's why they say they are has a new book. Called a warning in the book shares its title of course with the Classic notorious B. I G Song covers similar turf. How people who claim to ride with that you can turn on you as big warned? It's the ones that smoke blunts with you your picture now they wanna grab their guns and come and get you well. All this official clearly wants to come and get trump aligning him as something like an elderly uncle. Running pants lists across the courtyard. The book also has some bouts of fan fiction rebellion bellion aides talking about resigning and mass itself massacre something. They never actually did now. These accounts are fair. Game for Media and political discussion of course but it is striking to see this book but you may hear people talking about arriving now in the midst of the Ukraine scandal because while this new author takes another turn in the spotlight. The person who blew the whistle on Ukraine scandal did not leak or pushing op ed or speculate on rebellions. That never came to fruition. The real whistle blower documented facts Reported them internally and lawfully through proper channels going to the inspector general who confirmed that person's job and credibility and formerly found the Ukraine. Complain an an urgent concern. That alone gives everyone way more confidence in D. whistleblower than in anonymous who hasn't identified their full expertise role role has only dealt with a few random editors and on the substance. The whistle blower identified far more than opinions against trump documenting the plot to solicit interference from a foreign in country for twenty twenty. Which of course led to the probes that compelled to the release of the call notes? Corroborating that account one whistle blowers voice brought forward more. You've seen seen them. The failings of diplomats and veterans and officials walking into Congress to testify. Now let me be clear tonight. There's of course more than one way to set. It just happens that the whistleblowers way worked and drew others to come forward with facts while anonymous has earned more book deals than investigative leads. Now the book addresses some of this this conceding that may many may see this as cowardice and maybe anonymous will come out of the closet at some point but the whistle blower shows. You don't have to reveal yourself herself to make an impact if you know the rules and you know how to work within them so yes. Anonymous is now making literary splash. But the whistle blower is making waves to quote that. Same Biggie Song. It ain't a dream things ain't always what it seem. I wanted to share that dot but since a lot of people might be discussing that book and I also want to update you on something this Sunday night when we are back with new impeachment special with some very special guests and of course that's that's available to everyone around the nation this Sunday night last night we did also announced. We're hosting an event in Manhattan to dive into this historic story. And I wanNA tell you you all sold out the general admission seats for that last night within four minutes of the announcement. Congratulations I will tell you given the overwhelming interest. We're making standing room tickets available tonight you can go to. MSNBC DOT com slash impeachment ny if you were in New York and want to come to the impeachment of president trump national debate with Chairman Nadler and our legal experts November twenty first. The tickets may go soon. These new standing room tickets at MSNBC DOT com slash impeachment and Y. If if you're interested in in New York take a look now. I'll be right back after this with fallback Friday. It's time now to fall back joint tonight by Harlem Rapper Davies for the debut and his new album. Survival we'll dropping today features. Dave artists like gnaws Rick Ross Fabulous and a special collaboration with his daughter. Kyri who you see right there in studio and Dave sometimes sometimes has out on tour with him. They've also pleased routine rapper method man and the Hulu Series Wu Tang and American saga and daybreak presents. Harlem he's joined today by our friend. Tony Oh neat Schwartz representing Manhattan and the Bronx businessman former New York Times journalist and the author of five books including Donald. Trump's the art of the deal Thanks to both of you for being here in San Great to see you have to apologize for reading that book. We'll get into that. Tony what's on your fallback. Paul backless I wanNA fall back on certainty we. Whenever you're feeling anxious he moved to certainty? And it's a binary way of thinking you thinking it's either good or it's bad it's right or it's wrong and it rarely rarely is incredibly complex world. You know I I watch it in Silicon Valley right now where you know if you think back not very long ago the tech companies. We're going to be our savior heroes. Were the folks who ran those companies now. Suddenly they are the the devil. They're the opposite they're going to bring down civilization and it's about nuance and subtlety and finding a place. That can hold opposites. Tolerate the idea that even though ideas may conflict with each other both may have aspects of the truth. Well Dave sometimes people act more certain than they are to appear strong. The balloon allude up for like ninety percent of the time like someone will carry themselves a certain way and act more certain more successful even maybe more tough than they are right right and then you find out. There's more to this story things a lot of pride involved with that and just you know trying to Ovid's confidence. That might not really be there so you may do that more to try to seem more certain yes. I agree with that any strength overused. I think you've heard me say. At any strength. Overuse becomes a liabilities. Confidence Overuse becomes uh-huh our against humility the balance. You need both right. What else is on your fault? Douglas dates honestly for like the entire. US government needs to be. I just feel like it's never been so much division in the country So much uncertainty you. You know what's going on and I'm thinking started at the top of the head. I mean I feel like that needs to become figured out exactly how to do it but I think if that I figured out in the division between the Republicans and the Democrats that could come to some type of balance new some kind of balance. It'd be better much better country living. No it's an incredibly. This is exactly the point. We are divided between people who are certain they are right even though Only if one one of the one of the mets could be wrong. And that's where you get all this division. I was just thinking about a a study that was done by getting him George valued at Harvard of thirty. It's a Ben. Bradlee was in this study. JFK was in this study. It was a bunch of Harvard. Students back back in the thirties at just to cut it. Tony's the kind of guy he'll bring homework to a life interparty you'll be eighty thinking he'll be like well. There's actually studies on go. I keep talking anyway. This is so simple out of these three hundred people in this study were followed for fifty years the thing that determined most whether they add success in life like their marriages their careers was what was the quality of love and their childhood. How much did they get? I know he's devoted his daughter restroom. That's where it starts and actually we're in a moment of we're in a time of incredible hatred at a time when the diffuser would be the capacity to tap into your heart I love you say that because shoutout to Dave senior. You brought your parents here today. That's been the run around with me. That's my gun. Good luck charms. The you know the that is you can't imagine what a what what a crabby a yukon. But what incredible. Good Fortune to feel that way which you know what I think is the problem with that. I feel like people are more into Paulo. More than love coon. You know what I mean I feel like love is like having Powell of or control of something. People lean towards quarter leans to that more so that was really the biggest problem with everything and get into that because I was listening to the new album dropping today. Survival revisal. Listen you have a line on there where you say basically you have you felt or sometimes rappers use characters but the line is that you needed to get power to make sure you. You didn't get hurt growing up. Yes I'd buy real and that comes from seeing who got Powell whether's the stronger dude or whether someone with a web like Powell comes in many ways and I learned that early. I mean so that I moved to lifelike that knowing that most power power that people will have the abuse it you know what I mean when most people when they get out they abuse it so I try not to abuse whatever power whatever influence. I have Well well you know you have never felt more than I do now. I couldn't agree with you more. I never felt more than I do. Now that the truth of power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely eh and where the look at it in me to and all those men who've had huge power and use it to abuse women or you look at it. In the way trump operates president this notion the human impulse is survival impulse and so the instinct is to try to exercise power mostly because you feel week that those are the people who are the hardest to do powers. The most insecure person becomes the most grandiose Let's get into the album before I lose. You obviously obviously people who were sleeping on. Survival need to fall back for all the way back to life is based on survival instincts. Yeah survival the album. I would be remiss if I didn't mention your survival might fare better than than some of Tony's work. The here's the deal we're gonNA pulp this sucker. Dave what do people need to know about. The album is my life man is for. It's the inspiration and motivation for generations to come. I wanted to record and create something that would be timeless and not just live for the moment and why I was important to put your daughter on. She was on the cover one of the paths. Now she's on the music so I was like you know what come on communities and communities credits with me or or I love that thanks for coming through Davies. Tony Schwartz appreciate both the Nice to meet you antastic guests. We'll be back this Sunday night. Nine PM it means turn for this special coverage impeachment crisis that Sunday night at nine pm before we go. I want to mention one more thing. You're about to see because tonight marks the twentieth twentieth anniversary anniversary of hardball with Chris Matthews. We want to give a big shoutout to our friend and colleague and leader on this milestone for an iconic show. And so let me say. Hey I'm GONNA get out right on time happy. Happy Birthday to hardball to Chris. Matthews that whole hardball team. Hey It's Chris as you know sometimes it's good to just take a step back back from the day to day onslaught of news and take a broader. Look at the issues. That's what I'm doing each week on my podcast. Why is this happening? Were exploring topics ranging from school segregation. The climate change. Well the way that I think of it is climate change will be to the twentieth century. What modernity west of the nineteenth century it'll be the central subject of questions about economic justice? US everything you care about in the world will be affected by climate and digging deep with

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