Unemployment Rate Falls To 13.3%; Payday Loan Lenders Target The Poor
From NPR and Wbz I'm Jeremy Hobson. Im Tanya Moseley. It's here now. Today's new jobs report finds that the US actually add it two and a half million jobs in May at the Rose Garden this morning. President trump praised the economy. Today is probably you think of it the greatest comeback in American as you. It's not gonNA stop here. It's going to keep going. The president is now pushing for all states to reopen, and even though the unemployment rate dropped to just over thirteen percent last month, they're still more than thirty seven million people, claiming unemployment benefits, NPR, chief economics correspondent Scott horsely joins us now and Scott. This report actually stunned many economists. The President of course sees this as a turning point. Could it actually be one? It, certainly, a turning point we've gone from losing jobs for a couple of months to now gaining jobs in May. So that is a turning point, but it's important to keep some perspective here in March and April. The country lost more than twenty two million jobs in May. We regained. Eleven percent of those that's absolutely better than losing more, but we're still in a pretty deep hole here that unemployment rate of thirteen point three percent. That's still well above the worst rate. We saw it anytime during the great recession after the financial collapse. Let's talk a little bit about what happened in May to bring about these numbers. Yeah, I think what happen is businesses around the country began reopening, and that happened faster than I think forecasters were expecting the real surprise here is not that the economy started adding jobs again. I think most people expected that to happen in June. It just happened a month earlier than than most of the economists had been expecting. We knew the pace of pandemic layoffs had been slowing in recent weeks, and we had been looking at all the the sort of weekly data for any sign of of jobs, actually being added. We haven't really seen that signal yet in things like the weekly unemployment claims or the number of people who are continuing to collect unemployment. Bear in mind that even with this positive news about may jobs more than thirty seven million people are either collecting unemployment or in the line for it. We should stress that as you mentioned. There are still millions of people out of work as you said. What industries though are we actually seeing a comeback? The lot of the ones that were hardest hit when we voluntarily lockdown the economy and sort of desperate bid to slow the spread of the pandemic that is bars and restaurants, retail stores, also construction, manufacturing and healthcare, which is usually pretty recession proof, but even healthcare lost jobs in April is a lot of doctors and Dennis close their offices for anything but but emergencies. So those have all seen a comeback. Although the gains have not by any means or race, the job losses that we saw in in March and April, there are other industries that continue to lose jobs. Air travel lost another fifty thousand jobs in May on top of the jobs that were lost in April, and importantly state and local government lost more than half A. A million jobs in May that's on top of nearly a million jobs that governments lost in. April, that's a sign that there's kind of a delayed effect on local government budgets as the rest of the economy turned south, and unless the federal government comes through with some help for state and local governments. We could see more job losses. They are going forward. This morning the president waved off questions from journalists about the unemployment figures for black and Asian Americans today. What do these numbers tell us about unemployment in these communities of Color? Well certainly African Americans and Latinos in particular still face a challenging job picture their their unemployment rates were higher than the national average before the pandemic, and they're higher now as well. The jobless rate for African Americans actually ticked up a little bit in May even as the overall number was coming down now that could be some statistical noise. The unemployment rate among african-americans bounces around a little bit just with some sampling air but we do know that a great number of African. African, Americans who are still working are holding those kind of front line, essential jobs that also put them at greater risk of infection. So that's another thing to keep in mind. We did see a drop last month. In Latino unemployment, Latinos are concentrated in some of the industries that did make a partial recovery like food, service and construction, but again the jobless rate for Latinos is above that for both African Americans and whites. All this is just a sign of the kind of. Structural inequality that has been persistent in this country, which sadly is sort of fueling some of the the demonstration that we're seeing around the country. That's NPR chief economics. Correspondent Scott horsely as always thank you. My pleasure. Will the demonstrations we've been seeing around? The country are also playing out on social media. Let's bring infamy. Okay, hosted the stream on Al Jazeera English Femi-. Jeremy. And there's just so much to talk about with you. Let's with something that's trending today Hashtag. He's seventy five. This is after police in Buffalo. New York pushed an older man to the ground during a protest yesterday listen. Oh! He's bleeding out of his years. They're saying get a medic. A Buffalo Police spokesman told CNN that two officers have been suspended because of that incident, and the is in the hospital in serious but stable condition. What do we know about what happened here? And what has the reaction been like online? The reason we know what happens because NPR station WB F. O.'s shared video of the old senior, being pushed to the ground earlier yesterday evening, the police spokesman said that one person was injured when he tripped and fell, it became very clear from the video. There was no tripping although there will some falling and people were incensed, which is why he's seventy five Trindade results of that immediately when that video was out, it's the power video on social I would say the man is now in a in a stable condition to officers have been suspended without pay buffalo. Police Commissioner has asked for immediate investigation. We give you a little sense of the. The response and reaction on twitter Peter Morley says the other officers just left him on the sidewalk bleeding after he was pushed and shoved by Buffalo police officers. He seventy-five is this. Half our country has fallen remarkably though Jamie. Not Everybody was saying the same thing in the defense of the place. Many people saying well the the gentleman should never be near police line. What do you expect you would get pushed? He's old enough to know better. Stay home if we don't want to be facing the police, so there's a split conversation. Even though we see the video, we see them out on the ground and we're here. He's head hitting the ground as well. We've also seen celebrities speaking up about George Floyd's death. Here's Meghan Markle. The Duchess of Sussex, in a virtual graduation speech for the Immaculate Heart High School in Los. Angeles she called events in the country devastating. The only wrong thing to say is to say nothing. George Lloyd's life mattered and Briana Taylor's life matter and Falungong castells life mattered Tamir Rice's life mattered. And so did so many other people whose names we know and whose names we do not know. Now Meghan. Markle has been open about some of the racism. She has faced in her life. But how are celebrities like her? Being viewed for talking about race? I this the celebrity dilemma because you're criticize if you don't speak out your criticize when you do for instance reaction to Meghan markle's videos both positive and negative. People were saying you're not really black. You're making George. Floyd steph about yourself to attention seeking so it's really difficult for celebrities to get it joust right because they using this liberty platform, and then some people are pushing back and they don't like them for using that platform. Now one of the things that I saw this week and I'm sure you saw. It was the blackout on Tuesday of social media where everybody was just posting just a black square on instagram or on facebook, and usually with the Hashtag blackout, Tuesday people just voicing their solidarity with victims of police violence and with the protesters. What are people saying about that whole exercise and how it worked? Say the social campaign, the the was very laudable. It was to support the black lives matter organization are a couple of practical issues that surfaced almost immediately. If people are posting a black square using Hashtag, black lives matter, it meant that very important. More practical information was literally buried on the black squares. Supporters of the Black Lives Matter Movement takedown. Take Down Your squares. Take Down your posts and then reposted using the actual hash type of the campaign, which is blackout, Tuesday. That's one practical problem. The second issue that came up was one of intention, so some people interpreted blackout choose. They as do nothing. Say Nothing and black lives matter. Matter supporters were saying actually. This is the time to raise your voice to have conversations to use any privilege that you might have so. There was pushback about that, and then finally a third criticism the I noticed, and this one is one of all social media campaigns is that maybe you should be doing something more than post? Brandy Riley's tweet jumped out at me. Went Viral. She says thank you for your black lives matter graphic. May I please see a picture of your executive leadership team and company board, which means I know that you're posting? I know you'll support in fact you so much, but are you really practicing what post? We'll leave it at that family because that's an important point. Host of the Stream on Al Jazeera English. Thank you so much. Congestion! Slipping. And Music about police violence. It's also been climbing the spotify charts this week. Including this is America by Childish Gambino. Whitman listening to here now. American! I got. I got to carry them. It feels like nothing in the news. These days makes any sense. So Husselmann Hajj turned to his father, and his faith for answers he said, don't worry about the number of questions. Just worry about which questions become more clear and solidified comedian Hasan bin Hajj on how his spirituality is getting him through listening, subscribe to. It's been a minute from NPR. Three men are facing terrorism related charges in Nevada after allegedly planning to incite violence at protests over the death of George Floyd federal prosecutors say the men are connected to the BOO, Gulu, movement associated with far right extremists. This is just one example of a disturbing trend at peaceful demonstrations across the country. Alex Goldenberg has a new report out this week on extremists and protesters, and he's lead intelligence analyst with network. Contagion Research Institute welcome. Thank you very much for having me Tanya your research, began even before this latest wave of protests over systemic racism, and you and others have found that extremists are also inserting themselves in also some of the corona virus reopening protests. Who are these groups that you have been tracking? So our recent report outlines certain extremists subgroups coalescing all over social media into what we describe as the militia sphere. The groups that we paid particular attention to. We're groups like the oath keepers, three percenters, and then the Google Movement as well, and we found that the militias fear has grown increasingly extreme across platforms as the pandemic lockdowns have continued to view such lockdowns as government overreach, or even a plot to justify a police state, and it's apparent that these communities have attempted to even explore recent protests, regarding the George George Floyd incident and we've seen enthusiasts from the Google Movement in particular. WHO'VE BEEN DONNING HAWAIIAN? Shirts at over forty protests the past week and they've even adopted George Floyd as a symbolic martyr. Yeah, so you're giving us a bit of a sense of how widespread these groups are, but do you have numbers, and and this is interesting this idea of malicious fear, so we have seen Bugaku chatter in particular doubling on social media platforms. Like Reddit, twitter, facebook and Instagram, and to give you a sense of the numbers. According to the Tech Transparency Project, there are over one hundred forty facebook groups. Connected to the Google Movement. And some of these groups boast tens of thousands of followers. Now they're out in the streets. You gave a number of the projected number of those who are infiltrating these protests like the George Floyd protests as well as corona virus reopening protests. Is there any sense of what they want? And what they're asking for? With the purpose of infiltrating these protests are so I earlier this year many of the platforms that we tracked. The Term Boo Goo was initially used to describe an uprising against a tyrannical government. In response to a perceived threat of widespread gun. Confiscation I we. I saw them in person actually at the Richmond, Virginia rallies. Earlier this year. But as we've outlined in our recent report, the animus is quickly shifted from theme to seem, and this really exemplifies the flexibility of this particular ideology. They're seeking the co-opt. These recent protests movements to further their own objective, and the objective is to promote sedition in civil war Attorney General William Bar said yesterday that he thinks it's mostly outside actors starting violence at these protests. Let's listen in many places. It appears the violence is planned. Organized and driven. By an Arctic and left. Extremist groups far-left extremist groups using Antifa like tactics, many of whom travel from outside the state to promote the violence buyers talking about far left extremists. But how much evidence is there to his point? How much are we seeing far left extremists stoking violence as well as far as you can tell from your research well current researching for left violence is on our radar, and most definitely in line with the mission of NCRI as the organization seeks to chart extremism on all political polls. we currently have some preliminary data on the nature of more extreme, leaning left-wing communities, but we are still very much in the preliminary stages, however on Wednesday. Federal prosecutors in Nevada charged three boo glue enthusiasts with terrorism offenses for plotted used Molotov cocktails explosives to incite violence George. Floyd protests. And, this is an isolated example of bugler adherence apprehended by police at recent protests. One young man from Denver Colorado self-described Bogu boy just last week was arrested near protests with numerous weapons, including several assault rifles and Tennessee a man who was armed with an era, fifteen was arrested at a protest who had earlier posted about the boo blue on social media. As you mentioned. These groups are mobilizing online and then going out into these protests. What do you think can be done and needs to be done to stop this type of thing from happening? I believe that social media companies need to be more proactive in identifying these groups once they crossed the line and Begin inciting violence and Organizing on highly politically volatile events to hijack the media narrative and I think some good steps have been taken. Read it just recently. SHUT DOWN SEVERAL BOO! Related Sub Brett's for. Inciting and glorifying. And that's step in the right direction and also from my understanding, facebook is now making it more difficult for users to find groups associated with the term Boo Goo. That's Alex Goldenberg. He is with the Network Contagion Research Institute, which has a new report out on extremists inserting themselves into protests. We will post link at here and now dot Org Alex. thank you so much. Thank you very much. Tanya happy to be here. Many of you may remember watching video from late May. Taken in Central Park. It was a white woman, threatening a black man who was bird watching. The man asked her to lead her dog in an area that we're that was mandated. The woman purposely called out the man's race in a phone call to police, and now this incident has sparked lots of action online Julie Grant from the allegheny front reports on a new social media trend called HASHTAG black burgers week. Monique Pipkin studies birds for the PhD. She's working on Cornell University, so when she saw a call for Black Blackburn to post a bird photo, she chose the chipping sparrow. That's the animal. I learned COMPATIB- bird with and these tiny little sparrows who have US lovely trill songs with a single, not repeated. Tweeden Martinez the PhD Student at University of Louisiana helped organize Hashtag blackbirds week on twitter instagram. She tweeted the northern mockingbird. Most people sometimes find. Find them annoying. I think they're really cool. It was one of a handful of photos. She posted of what she calls. Backyard birds just to show everyone out there. Especially Black Burgers that are just beginning you can probably find these birds or see them around very easily event co organizer. tikey James says as a kid in Philadelphia. His friends couldn't understand why he would get up early on weekends to go bird watching, but he remembers the. The thrill of seeing a bird he'd studied in a book out in nature, and I see a belted kingfisher female, sitting on a cattail, then swoops across Cops Creek, and you know makes that call that you know it's always gonNA be etched in my mind in I was just so president that moment that something that was on paper, turned into something real, but James wasn't surprised by the video in central park of a white woman calling. Calling the police on a black burder when I first saw honestly, it was just another video of in the long list of videos of white people entitlement weaponising police brutality to manage an inconvenience in their life. That involves a person of Color James says blackbirds week was conceived when a group called black AF in stem was talking online about it I initially didn't even watch the video because I knew exactly how it was going to end. I was wrong. Lead into blackbirds weak. The weak is included blackbird, posting photos of themselves in nature twitter check called ask a black burder, a data highlight, female murders and alive discussion called birding wall black on facebook hosted by the national. Audubon society where James Works. tweeted Martinez is amazed at how much attention they're getting I could never have imagined this I. Don't think any of US could have. This was something that was needed. And really the support means everything to all of us. Most images of birds and others in nature online are older, white people and Children Martinez hopes. Black Burgers Week will help Malays. Images of black people in the outdoors. She says for a black woman. Getting Ready to go. Birding can take a lot of effort. I have to look like a bird. Percent I make sure. I either a field guide in my hand of birds dry, so people can see that I'm I'm just here to bird. I'm not here to do anything else Martinez. Remembers being purposely splashed by a passing truck and others say they mostly bird in urban areas, and with white friends to avoid confrontation with people who might feel uncomfortable with a black burder, monique? Pitkin says she's only been able to go birding with other black people once in her life, just being able to see all of the amazing black naturalist, black biologists out there or just back, burgers or anyone who spending time in nature is. It's just signed. It's affirming and it's exhilarating, and it's really comforting. Honestly, we didn't pick our moment. But. We are rising to the occasion. James says the group effort to quickly put together Blackburn's week has meant a lot of long nights. He hopes it sets a precedent for future generations, not just that everyone has a place outdoors, but also that they can work together towards positive change. I have had something in my life that has been so fulfilling and that I could put so much of my energy into and get so much joy out of it. We were talking on one of the calls that we were just like. I'm exhausted but I will not stop smiling for here. Now I'm Julie Grant! Across. The Nation monuments to the confederacy are coming down in Alexandria. Virginia Birmingham Alabama and Tampa. Florida statues are being trucked away and confederate flags lowered in response to mass protests in the wake of the death of George Floyd, but perhaps the most notorious monument to be designated for removal, so far is the six storey statue of Robert E in Richmond Virginia and for more. We have with US Roberto. Role Dan. He's been covering the story for NPR member station V.. VP M. in Richmond and Roberta welcome. Thanks for having me on you. Yes, so yesterday governor North announced. Virginia will remove the Statue of Robert e Lee as soon as possible and set that Richmond is no longer the capital of the confederacy. What's been the response been they are? Well. I think it depends on who you ask right so richmond has until recently been a majority African. American city and a strongly democratic city, many residents, and especially the thousands of protesters who've been out in the streets have wanted to see these monuments taken down for a while, and you have some vocal opposition from pro confederacy groups, but From my reporting on this I think the majority of Richmond Irs are supportive of taking down the monuments, or at the very least not opposed to it. Yeah as you mentioned? This has been a discussion for a long time. There have been other calls to do this after the Charleston south. Carolina Church shooting for example or unite the right rally in Charlottesville Virginia, the other side of this is that we're reading. That confederate history groups don't want to see their statues destroyed by protesters, so they'd rather remove them to keep them safe. Can you say more about this? Year, so I mean I've seen that happen with the protest up in Alexandria believe but. I! Don't think that's the case here in Richmond just went through some of the facebook pages for the Virginia Flags Group, which is one of the big groups here. And they're calling. Protesters quote terrorists, and and saying that Democrats are using the protests as an excuse to pull the monuments down the Monument Avenue Preservation Group, which is a another pro confederacy group has a number of petitions directed at President Donald Trump, asking him to step in and stop the removal of the statues here so I'm not really hearing a whole lot of folks in Richmond saying. Let's take them down. You know preventatively. So of course, the Robert Elise statue is the most iconic statue of the confederacy, but there're others in July. The city council plans to vote whether to remove them all What can you tell us about that? Is that a real possibility? Yeah, that's right, so I mean before the protests and Corona virus happened. And we all sort of became health reporters might be is covering city hall, so the Mayor's office and City Council and what I can tell you. Is that just weeks ago? I don't think anyone would have predicted that the monuments would be coming down. City Councilman Michael Jones tried twice in the wake of Charlottesville and the death of heather higher at the hands of White Supremacists to put monument removal up for a vote here both times it failed to get a majority of Richmond City Council, but as of this morning, and in the wake of the protests that have been happening since Sunday here in the city of Richmond every member of Richmond City Council has now put out a statement saying that they will vote to take the confederate monuments down. That's reporter Roberto Role Dan of Richmond's. Member station VP am Roberto. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. For the first time since March, New York City has reported daily Cove One nineteen death toll of zero. That was yesterday zooming out. Cases are still on the rise in the US but at a slower rate than in April. Let's bring. Dr Rochelle Walinsky Chief of Infectious Diseases at Massachusetts. General Hospital and professor of Medicine at Harvard Medical School. Dr Welcome and there were no new confirm cove nineteen deaths in New York yesterday, although three people who were untested, may have died from the disease, but still when you compare that to the peak in April when the city was losing at least five hundred people to the pandemic each day. What does it tell you? Well I. I think we should just celebrate an extraordinary event. Given how sick people have been how we've seen footage of morgues just been It's been a rough many weeks and so I think we should celebrate this really extraordinary achievement. What I will say is that when you start seeing the markers of death, they happen five six seven weeks after your intervention to prevent them, and so that's actually quite frustrating. Frustrating because you will have an intervention like closing everything down like the masks like the social distancing, and you can't see the benefit immediately, and what this tells you is all of that incredibly hard work that we did to stop everything in its tracks worked on. We're seeing it today, and so I think that that's really important to recognize that that the marker of yesterday is because we worked so hard in April. Okay, so then given that timeline of five six seven weeks. Let me bring two items to your attention Jacksonville Florida reopened its beaches on April seventeenth, which was seven weeks ago. We talked about it at the time. A lot of people were worried that that was going to Meena Spike. In cases they haven't seen that. Georgia allowed many businesses to reopen six weeks ago. Do you think that the fact that we haven't seen significant spikes in those states? Means that. What they have done is not catastrophic to the goal, which is to reduce the amount of cases and deaths not yet so I think that this is a. One person infects people infects four people, so I think you know we are starting to see the data. We have to watch it really carefully. I think we should wait another four or five weeks for us to say this was a win I. think is way too early to say that it's a win. If you look at the map of Florida, the cases that have been considered hotspots and Florida are along the. The coasts that's also wear. There's more crowding along the coasts. I'm I'm not ready to say that that this was all success, and we should go back to life as normal by any stretch of the imagination, time will tell I'm and certainly the day that you open the beaches. We shouldn't say seven weeks later is when you're gonNA. See the deaths, I. Mean I I think we really just need to wait? President. Trump says we shouldn't wait in his news conference today. He's saying states that are still lockdown should reopen that schools should reopen. What are your thoughts on how that reopening can take place at this point? A lot of people are wearing masks taking steps to lower their risk of transmitting the virus. Is there a way at this point that we can start to open things up? In a different way than maybe a month ago or six weeks ago. Yeah it's a really good point, and and I have one of the big challenges with this for the last three months. The public has heard from us all the things you can't do. And I really think now is the time to say these are all the things you can do, and here's how to do it safely. Because what very clear as we can't stay in our current state for forever right and people are going to be anxious to go out and start. Recuperating in some. Of Life so the question is. How do you do that safely and I think we need to start offering some more guidance in that space. I don't think it's. Public spaces no masks, lots of crowding I. Don't think that's the answer, but I do think if we had shifts or or sizes of numbers of people that could be entering stores, everybody wearing masks, people in different sections of the store so that they're not all on top of each other. There should be some guidance that we can give people to sort of say. This is the safe way to to re engage in in a shopping mall or in a hairdresser, and I think that that's on us. I'm and their statewide guidance in many different states in order to do that and I think it's really important to do. The public wants to know that information. Let me finally. Ask you just maybe for some glimmers of hope here. Is there anything you've seen? When it comes to a possible vaccine or treatment in the last week or so that encourages you. So I think that there's a lot of exciting news in vaccines. There has been in the last two weeks or so the modern are a vaccine. is in phase two trials. They're still talking about face. Three large scale trials starting as early as July similarly the Astra Zeneca I'm no virus. Vaccine is really looking to scale up and Dr. Chee has been very vocal that he's really quite optimistic about the time line here. I want to be cautious and say we're going to have a vaccine by X. Date, but. Do believe that by the fall we'll have three or four of these vaccine options in phase, three large-scale clinical trials I was like to state something with regard to the vaccine trials. The best quickest way to get a vaccine trial is to have a lot of disease out there right so you you vaccinate a whole bunch of people. They all get exposed because there's so much disease out there and and then you know who got prevent it. Who was prevented by the vaccine of not getting disease the problem with summer, and it's a good problem to have is. We're really hopeful. We don't have a lot of disease out there and so. You know probably in the fall we were are likely to see more disease, and that's really where we're going to be able to see the end point of these some of these vaccine trials, but I do think that it's good news that these vaccine trials are are enrolling in large scale or or looking to buy the summer, and that by the fall, and hopefully by the end of the year we should have some efficacy data to be able to roll some of these out. That is Dr Rochelle. WILL HIS Chief of Infectious Diseases at Massachusetts General Hospital a professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School, Dr Thank you again for joining us. Thanks so much for having me. Well in Russia Vladimir Putin has declared a state of emergency after a giant fuel spill in a remote Arctic region, Putin his angry at the slow response to the accident, which took place a week ago. Environmentalists are comparing it to the nineteen eighty nine Exxon Valdez oil spill off the coast of Alaska. NPR's Lucian Kim reports from Moscow. President Putin held an emergency teleconference on Wednesday after news trickled back to Moscow, an environmental catastrophe north of the Arctic Circle. WHO, in this new citizen, institution and delivery or Putin glared. Giant teleconference screen Gina grilled them over there sluggish response after fuel reservoir at a power plant collapsed. Spilled more than twenty thousand tons of diesel. We're going to list it was. Virginia. Putin asked why local authorities only found out about the via social media's declared a state of emergency. Stop Bit. Television show rescue workers had put up special booms on the contaminated river to contain the spill. But as a Friday morning, only one hundred fifty tons of oil products had been recovered. The company responsible for the accident risk nickel is one of Russia's largest metal producers. It plans to clear away contaminated soil and collected toxic mix of water and fuel from the river Alexei conditioning cuff of the World Wildlife Fund. Russia says a big problem is the remoteness of the location eighteen hundred miles from Moscow that has no roads there, so it's twelve difficult. Difficult to bring enough storage capacity to keep this fuel it's it's huge amounts. He says the spill is comparable to the Exxon Valdez disaster thirty years ago in terms of volume, but not environmental impact, since the polluted water is unlikely to make it to the open sea. My understanding the the main victims of this conversation will be fish in river and lake. Of says that most of the diesel fuel isn't cleaned up will simply evaporate greenpeace. Russia is less optimistic, it says the spill poison, the delicate Arctic environment for many years to come with global warming. The Arctic environment is changing rapidly as permafrost, the layer of soil that stays frozen throughout the year is beginning to thaw in the summers. A Real Skinny pickles has thawing frost may in fact have caused a diesel fuel tank to collapse in the first place on national TV, the real nickel vice president, Sergei to Chango, insisted the company did not try to hide the catastrophe where national super super. Repulsive. The local mayor knew about the situation should have informed the governor who answers? From those Thursdays local law enforcement or form at the power plant where the accident took place. He faces up to five years in prison for violating environmental protection rules. Lucian Kim NPR News Moscow. During the great recession, payday loans, quick loans with high interest rates surged, and now with unemployment numbers just over thirteen percent and an unclear economic future. Some experts predict a new uptick for more on this we're joined by Charles, Rios a researcher with the Center for responsible lending. Welcome, thank you Tonya. Thanks to your listeners for having me, so let's start with the two thousand nine financial crisis. We actually saw an uptick in borrowers taking out. payday loans during that time despite the high interest rates of those loans. Now is the country faces record unemployment in an economic uncertainty? Do you anticipate this same pattern to repeat at Sierra? We anticipate payday lenders are going to continue to target distressed borrowers, because that's what they have done best. Since the two thousand nine financial crisis, and before that payday lenders have marketed themselves as a quick financial fix, and it says that in their marketing often when you go to these websites are into a storefront, you'll see signs or advertisements for quick cash money today, words that imply a things around getting money fast right. All the rhetoric mix. It seem like they're safe place, but they're encouraging people to get into these. Debt traps with triple digit interest rates upwards to three hundred or four hundred percent. we won't see of course the hard data until next year embiid, even then it will be on a state by state basis, because there isn't a central place with our federal government that requires all states to report on payday lending. Let's talk about that debt trap for a moment. What happens to to people who typically take out these high interest loans? Do you have data on what happens to those that turned to payday loans during the Great Recession for instance? Yeah, we do so. We know that people who take out. These loans will often be stuck in quicksand of consequences that lead to a debt traps that they have an extremely hard time getting out of if they're able to get out of it, the process of getting a payday loan a for your listeners. That are not familiar with the product is that the money is often lent without any confirmation of any ability to repay that loan? The lender gets access to that borrowers bank account. The lender collects the funds during the next payday, because they have direct access to that bank account putting them first in line to be repaid so inevitably the borrowers end up at their next pay period with their other bills do in the lenders tend to flip the borrower into a new long, and we've seen through research. That typical payday bar were nationally is trapped in ten loans year. Some of those long term, consequences can be really dire thinking about bank penalty fees when your accounts are overdraw damaged credit that stays on your record years. Even worse bankruptcy, there's some research to that. His link use of payday loans to worse health outcomes as well. Some states have actually banned payday lending, arguing that they lead to people as you mentioned incurring this unpayable debt to high interest fees, but for those states without those bands. Are there any protective or regulatory measures in place? Yeah, I'm so. There's been a few that have been put in place, so we know for example one was in Wisconsin where payday lending is. That the state regulator issued a statement cautioning payday lenders. increasing interest rates, fees or costs during this Cova nineteen crisis. In that failure to do so may result in license, suspension or revocation, which is a great thing that the state has done considering the harms of payday lending overall, there's also some states that have such as California that capped their loans at thirty six percent for longer term installment loan, which was a huge win. An we see bipartisan support across the nation for things such as thirty six percent rate cap. You've mentioned. Mentioned the state by State interventions, but are there any federal regulations that we see on the horizon? Yeah, that's a great question There's one that we're keeping our eyes on which is from the consumer financial protection bureau so in two thousand seventeen. They did issue a Brule to look at a person's ability to repay a payday loan, but it seems like based on what is being set forth by the PB. PB does far that that rule may be rescinded, and that will result in folks who take out payday loans, not looking at their ability to repay before they take out that loan inevitably that results in them, being stuck in that debt trap by taking out one loan, having it be repaid by another loan, and so forth I wanna go back to what recourse people have so with banks clamping down on loaning what? What can people actually do? Although a marketers are marketing themselves as a quick financial fix? The reality of the situation is that more often than not people are stuck in a debt trap that has led to bankruptcy that his lead to rebar, wearing his lead to damage credit and to avoid that. If at all possible, that's Charles Rios a researcher for the Center for responsible lending. Thank you so much, thank you. And here now is a production of NPR in Wvu are in association with the BBC World Service I'm Tanya loosely. I'm Jeremy Hobson. This is here now.