Gettysburg with Jim Hessler and Eric Lindblade
Hello and welcome to based on a true story, the podcast that compares your favorite Hollywood movies with history. Now if you're listening to this on the day, it's released then today July first marks the one hundred and fifty seventh anniversary of the battle of Gettysburg. That battle took place between July first in July third in eighteen, sixty three during the American civil war. So that's why today we're going to learn about the epic four and a half hour long film from Nineteen, ninety-three simply called Gettysburg to. To help us separate fact from fiction in the movie, I'm excited to be joined by Jim, Hessler and Eric Linden late. Jim and Eric are both. Gettysburg licensed battlefield guides, and are the CO hosts of the battle of Gettysburg podcast Jim has also written multiple books on the battle, including sickles, Gettysburg which one the Gettysburg Civil War Roundtables Book Award as the most outstanding work on the Gettysburg campaign. Before we bring Jim and Eric on the line. No, let's set up our game to truth and a lie. If you're new to the show, here's how it works. I'm about to say three things. Two of them are true, and that means one of them as a lot I ready. Okay, pay their number, one one percent of all battlefield casualties steering near American civil war were caused by bayonets. Number two winning the battle of Gettysburg did not guarantee victory for winning the American civil war. Number three. The Union planned the battle of Gettysburg to push the confederacy out of Pennsylvania. Got Him. Okay now as you're listening to our story today, your challenges to find the two facts scattered somewhere throughout the episode, and by a simple process of elimination. You'll be able to find out which one is alive. And of course we'll do a recap at the end of the episode to see. How will you did? All right now it's time to connect with Jim Eric to chat about the historical accuracy of. Gettysburg. After the opening credits, the movie sets up the battle of Gettysburg with some voiceover, according to the movie it in June of Eighteen, sixty, three General Robert E. in the confederate army of northern. Virginia, Invade Union territory with an army of seventy thousand men toward the end of June eighty thousand soldiers in the Union army head through Maryland, an independent in pursuit of the confederate army. Then the movie suggests the civil war has been raging for two years up until this point, and also that generally knows about a letter offering peace that is planned to be delivered to Abraham Lincoln the president soon after generally defeats the Union Army. Can you give us a little more historical context around the way? The movie sets up the battle of Gettysburg and the size of these two armies meeting in Pennsylvania Eric. Let's start with you. Yeah I think the movie. Sort of takes a very complex of and trust can distill it down as quick as they can I, think also. Sort of making Gettysburg seem almost the climactic point of the American civil war. And if you knew nothing of the war, he just watch the movie you'd think. The South is just winning victory after victory after victory, and certainly that's the case in Virginia. But elsewhere not so much. It's really by eighteen sixty three unmitigated disaster for the confederacy and a lot of areas so robbery Lee's army by this was to become the best hope the confederacy has. Lee is going to bring with him about seventy five thousand soldiers, the army that the GONNA numbering close to one hundred thousand, so they get the numbers a little off, but but for the most part these are to. Equally matched arms. Lease out number two three to one or anything like that so anything to add to the gym. A couple of things first of all before I answer a single question. I WanNa make it clear that I love this movie like a big sloppy shaggy dog, so even though it was going to seem to the listeners. You know that we're going to spend the next hour. Kind maybe bashing it a little bit Eric while I don't want to speak for Eric but I think Eric movie as much as I do. So having said that you know to Eric's point about complexity, Robert e Lee reality had a number of complex reasons for wanting to north wanted to take more out the south. He wanted to rob fresher away from threaten on points. Obviously, he wanted to live off the mortgage. And certainly I do think Lee was looking to fights in a battle. But the idea that they present in the movie you know a ladder has been drawn up. There's a ladder. Somebody's got in their pocket and so he's GonNa. Walk into Lincoln's office and put it on his desk. It's very dramatic. But there's no real credible credible evidence that that was you know significant factor in and we S- plans Derek is. For do we know reliable source that awesome about said letter offering peace is ever found. The reasons that we wants to invade, ours are more complex than was presented in the movie. Hollywood for you. Yeah, that's that's true. That's true. Now I know a lot of people. Listening to this may not there outside the United States can you give a little more geographical context around? At this point in the American civil war, where where are the army's? I mean obviously Gettysburg in Pennsylvania, but is that like right along the the lines of the north? And South is at this point in the war, or had those lines kind of shifted for where those were considered. It depends on how you define the south If you would look at based on areas that maintain the institution of slavery, then the border would be the Pennsylvania Maryland. But. Maryland remained loyal to the north. Even though they have the institution of Slavery surreally you then draw that line down to the border of Maryland and Virginia's sort of the. The dividing line of course by eight hundred sixty one northern troops occupy northern Virginia so you draw that line even further south so really look at what is these territorial borders? It really depends on where armies are operating win. There's not really sort of define geographic line that we think of today. You know again I would add to that in terms of Maryland. One of the things Robert de Lis trying to do both when he when he moves north in eighteen, sixty two, and only comes north again in eighteen, sixty three is trying to win. It also speak the hearts and minds of the Maryland population. Speaking of the movie we see Jeff Daniels Character Colonel Joshua Lawrence. Chamberlain and he's the Kernel of the Twentieth Maine Regiment. He gives a speech to some hundred and twenty men who were mutineers from the second main. And the movie explains that those one hundred and twenty men thought that they were signing up to fight with the second main only, but they actually signed a three year contract one of the men. Tells Chamberlain that he's fought in like eleven engagements up to this point, so you can tell it's not about I. don't care what contract is signed. Basically, they're done right there. They've done their fair share. They're done. They're not gonNA fight anymore. And so the army doesn't really know what to do with them. At least according to the movie portrays things. But apparently chamberlain is authorized to use whatever force necessary, including potentially shooting these one hundred and twenty men if they don't fight. There's this dramatic Dino's does great acting job. I think giving this speech to these men. He offers a chance at you. Don't have to join in the battle, but if we lose this fight, we're going to lose the war. So. Is this storyline that the movie portrays about the second main, and and that speech that Jeff Daniels character gives in the movie. The hard heads, so the second name that essentially did happen. You know these guys from the second main needed new home. It didn't happen though right on the eve of the battle. It happens I forget the exact middle of May I want to say or something like that I said Jeffrey Chancellor's Villa's. I remember correctly that notion of having to integrate is into the second main does happen. Again you know the movie. They portrayed as happening literally on the morning. July first of coercion that builds up the drama. How Chamberlain going to integrate all these all? He's hard some. The. Timing is definitely compress, but again you see that a lot in Hollywood so. What do you think Eric Chamberlain? A rousing speech like that. What are you saying? Maybe he did. Baby didn't all John. Chamberlain was ignited or a tour after the war, he gave a number of speeches in Nollie his career in academia, but also article for Governor of Maine So this is the guy that probably could give a good speech now whether or not he gets everybody together and gives them this. Sort of immoral of US sermon if you will. We. Don't know that, but certainly if anybody could give a speech, chamberlain was more than capable of if he was not. A young guy was noticed not being. Able to give a speech, if necessary. It's a good point whether it actually happened. It, certainly and character, but again you know the thing to which we touched on the in the opening this idea again. We're fighting the climactic battle. You know man. Oh, man, we lose this one. The war's over scenario now we're like what fifteen minutes into the movie and we've already heard that two or three times again, trying to set the stage you know and he's Super Bowl. Laver wins this one. It's going to take it all. That's definitely what I took away from that. At that point was the entire war hangs in the balance on this battle, especially after that speech, and I think Lee certainly fell a victory on northern soil. Could go a long way into possibly leading to confederate independent. Now were probably not gonNA. Have a you know George Washington meets Cornwallis at Yorktown type situation where the army surrenders. But there was political pressure Lake Administration, the summer and sixty three to in the war over two hundred thousand Americans had already died to this point and in April eighteen, sixty three federal drafts had been implemented in the north so. Many ways eighteen, sixty three in summer, is not that far removed from say nine, hundred, sixty eight over the Vietnam conflict. The war is kind of hanging else little bit, so if we can win a victory in the north, certainly would increase the odds poss with southern independence, but I wanNa then count. Tamp down the Liens Gettysburg. This war's over. That's not the case. Yeah exactly what you know, what I always tell people on tours began it would more than anything. It would be potentially potentially forcing Lincoln from a political perspective again getting back to the movie you notice opening of we're gonNA destroy the army and put a letter on his DASS. It Oh isn't isn't practical really in eighteen, sixty three or really at any other I'm Lawrence aspects. You know you arnie's quote on poking destroyed. The army of foaming even if they skinny the numbers down a little bit of metal. So. It sounds like generally was going for a huge moral victory. Almost you know winning this battle in the north. Correct me if I'm wrong, but almost hoping that this moral victory might help push the north to almost sued for peace I mean not necessarily right away or or any of that, but get that ball rolling. If people are starting to be tired of the war than maybe this can help. Further that cause does that sound like maybe the storyline there I think that's the best case scenario I mean certainly people in the north as you said are tired of war. The Democrats were obviously pressuring Lincoln to You know to get out of it which you see in the subsequent election. Let's probably best case scenario even in a worst case scenario if Lee can. Deal military victory or defeat the army, the mic Lee can even just disrupt the Union army's plans for the summer, and an alliance says that in a couple of occasions Gettysburg. People didn't do anything for the rest of the summer and even from. Perspective perspectives Mac and be considered victory I. Think we have to look at what victory is from south. The North has to win the south just. Doesn't have to lose, so the metrics are different. There in the south doesn't have to win this. They don't lose and so I think Lee. Certainly looking at that, keep in mind making sixty three Pennsylvania is the second largest state in the union. A magical, the political impact of losing a battle in the second largest. In your nation. How's that going to affect Lincoln? Say Next November with his election, so we can see. Play out and often I tell people until I. You don't have to win world battlefield. You can just as easily win it politically and I think that's really what Lee is looking at eighteen, sixty three. The odds of winning militarily are down, but the odds of winning political. You're certainly up in his favor when he embarks the for campaign. That's another common I always make too about the importance of Pennsylvania. What I remind people on Tours is that you know Lee Captures Harrisburg or not? South? Pennsylvania in eighteen sixty three. That's a big deal. If he captured Harrisburg today, he could keep it. We don't want it, but in eighteen sixty was a big deal. Heading back to the movie. Sam, Elliott's character General John Buford. He's leading his coury near the outskirts of Gettysburg, and he's the first to come across the confederate army as they're marching the movies dialogue says that with the number of men they see the confederate army from afar. They thought they were headed for Harrisburg, but there's too many troops to be a raiding party. So they determined that Lee has turned and there's a brief mentioned from General Buford where he mentions taking two brigades of men into town. But then right after this. Then there's some text onscreen and puts us about fourteen miles from Gettysburg in tiny town Maryland as chamberlain and his men in the Union army arrive in that town. Then we see General Buford and his men arriving in Gettysburg, but they don't stay in town. Buford leads his men to farmland just outside town where he surveys what I can only assume I. Don't remember the movie ever mentioning this, but I'm assuming he's surveying this that he is predicting. This is going to be the site of a battle like this is the site of the battlefield. He's kind of looking at it ahead of time. So the idea that I get from the movie as I'm watching this here is that the Union army basically arise I, and they position themselves around the town of Gettysburg so they can have a strategic foothold in the area when the confederate army gets there. Is that true what I can tell people about the movie versus story? Is I do? The basics of this movie are accurate sizing basics, others colleagues who disagreed with me and say my God. No none of it's accurate. That's not true they. Or accurate, so what really happened? He'll rise in the Gettysburg area on June. Thirty s geese sees confederate's approaching from the West some guys. Eric might be familiar with. Confederate approaching from the last that you'd sides sort of break awesome. Combat on the thirtieth. What you get is you realize is in fats are massing to the west of jets, verge, and likewise the confederates now. Something is going on, and he's and that's kind of what happens, and that's going to set. The stage for the is is gliding on on July. First in reality, one of my biggest grievances with the movie is really none of that is really explained in the movie i. mean they then sorted then segue into. These ulcer Walter, Taylor talking about apple butter and stop Jackson. Buttermilk can and all this stuff you? The movie makes same like confederate's are going into. The depressants. Michigan owns supplies and all that stuff I guess is sentenced. To the other part of your question. One thing is I? Say you know we'll see marriage says I think the movie kind of overplays or fighting a high growl, Buford his thumping his chest, and say in the high ground, but they're going to have the high ground in that that's a powerful mythology, because that is pervaded itself in the full extent, literature people come to the the battle. A battle was fought for the high ground, not any high ground but Sonic Ralph. About so again I'll go back leg opening the basics right and I think they kind of mess up a whole lot of details, the challenge, the movie Gettysburg is how all over the place the time line is. You go from daylight darkness the combined things, so it doesn't really give you a glow by blow. County might take with John Buford is does he probably notice the high ground around Gettysburg? Absolutely, he's a professional older. But I think Buford's more concerned with the ten roads that intersect in round the town. Way Networks are criminal in a military campaign. He's also in communications of General John Reynolds the left wing commander of the army of Tomac so he's getting information back gathering information as well. Are They Buford under sensors confrontation, but I don't think he's saying Gettysburg's. We're going to put our. FLAG GROUND WE'RE GONNA. Make Our stand here. July first very fluid situation. It's really not until the mid to late afternoon. That really it's looking like this grand battles going to be fought here again he's. Very well could have just been a very sharp engagement, west and north of the town July first the army's withdrawal. We talk about something else. That doesn't happen. To that point, one of the greatest fallacies I think this movie is. You can come away from this movie thinking John Buford Zeal. Hancock Joshua Chamberlain, run the army of the Potomac in reality. There's a guy named George Meade. Who is commander of the Union army and by June thirtieth July first. You know really well into the late afternoon early evening for me had not decided where he was going to fight that battle. There's things about folly back Maryland along the line. Pigeon and things of that nature, but Gettysburg is an important crossroads only say union army, but frankly for the confederates to that's one of the reasons why the consider your comment. Acerbic because. They're moving over Apple Jacks. You know like like they seem to be moving. I saw the movie I'm not. School threw throughout that caveat, every ten or fifteen minutes in case, somebody tunes, delayed or something like. Gettysburg is the movie we love to hate and hate the love. Yeah, let's get superfan lies in shoutout for that. That was exactly at the movie. We love to hate love. We love you license. You're listening out there. It's great. They know you can pick it apart, but still in love it for what it is like just knowing that you know, it's not gonna be. Entirely accurate by any means, but you know it can still be a a good movie as a movie. Let's be clear out something. We didn't say this is a good movie. We said we loved it. We didn't necessarily say. Square block through. Fair point good good catch. I appreciate that good catch. You're talking about how the actual battle started. In the way, the movie shows this. We're on the confederate side and we see a messenger deliver a message to Martin Sheen's version of generally that's general. Hell is going to be taking his men into the town of Gettysburg to get some shoes generally clarifies that he doesn't want any conflict. Until all their troops are consolidated in the Messenger assures him that don't worry general. Hill doesn't expect any opposition. They're just some local militia, not going to be a big deal. And then soon after General Long Street arrives, tells generally that he saw coury, so it's not just local militia, and as they're talking, we can hear some artillery firing in the distance. Generally asks for General Heath. Who they say is the most forward commander I believe in the camera cuts to Gettysburg where now we have union troops cannons at the confederate soldiers. General Buford that we talked about earlier. He's watching from top in town and he smiles as he remarks the you know. He's got the best ground positions you talking about the high there again. And that the confederates only hitting with. So as I was watching this. I got the idea that okay. The confederates are going to choose need supplies. You know they. They need these things and they. Were not expecting the union soldiers there they almost got the lack of a better term ambushed, and that's that's basically how all started is that how the battle of Gettysburg actually started? Yes, and no the battle. Gettysburg is what typically. Military historians virtues a meeting engagement simply put the army's run into each other collide. The idea that the movie kinda creates the Henry heeds just sort of. Baubles into union troops. Heath was aware of a union presence of some kind in his front today before. Now. What the nature of that is bat was to be seen. I always like to tell people that on June thirtieth. He sends one brigade towards Gettysburg. On July first, he sends entire seven thousand man division. So. It's well as trust but verify situations. And what we then saying, you know the of long streets already there awfully long shirt doesn't arrive on the battlefield Gettysburg until. noon. Though confederates already driven union troops back. So that kind of once again the odd little time wine the have, but it does kind of make it seem confederation this kind of ambling into this unbeknownst to them when the reality is, they have a better sense of it now. They'd have perfect. They you know chlorine outlined. The shoe thing is pervasive in remember the movie. The movie Gettysburg is based on a Pulitzer Prize. Winning novel the killer angels, which dates back to the mid nineteen seventies, and although I wasn't around back then. Sort of an earlier era, the idea that battles fought overshoes was more more pervasive and sort of the enlightened era that we live in today. We kind of understand You know all these other side. So it's not surprising to me that they bring shoes into the movie script, I would almost be surprised if they didn't do it again. Some of the other basics are generally. There was Henry Heath leading confederate advance. Yes, he go bumbling into it. No, he'd surprised. Yes, and a lot of that first thing. They do a lot of else coping again things. Six eight hours do occur in the movie, just kind of happened with one or two currier, these sitting out source and two messengers come up and kind of explain whole thing. So again a little bit. A little bit of telescoping. The first day in the movie is probably my least favorite part because I don't think they do justice, too. Big Or importance, a real first day was, but you know I guess when you're already talking a four hundred sixty minute movie something Scott and Grow and that kills me because. I am a first day. Guy That's by favorite day of the ballots have favorite day of a battle. But you know it's. To be people. The first day may respects, but Y- casualties inflicted by the two armies. If the first day was a battle just on its own. It would rank around the thirteenth bloodiest battle, the American civil war. Just Day. And so I think he does get overlook. It's not this little skirmish. I mean it's arguably some of the heaviest fighting the battle gangs. Gettysburg takes place in the first day, but the one thing that movie I stay, I think does do is make star out of John. Buford you've heard was not again. If you go back to the literature of the nineteen seventies nineteen, sixties, nineteen fifties job new third was not the quote. Unquote big started yesterday, and so influential e. this movie has really indoctrinated a generation of historians again. His students that John Buford is the Niamh John Do for saves the Union. Not Buford in any way, shape or form Sam Elliott does a great job for trading. Things Sam Elliott has urged Virgil herb into stone. Point the you're looking at influence out. Does this movie influence people and it's certainly given a lot of people and I'll see the impression that job you safe day on July first got his. You know we like to say that. Maybe partially trope. It's a little more complicated than that. was there anybody who was the hero of the day? If Not Buford, what else can say is, there's a tendency. To say this. Is the hero the event? There's multiple euros. The Union victory at Gettysburg is a team effort. It's collaborative. and. With Buford do I think he did this overwhelmingly heroic job here, Gettysburg no I don't. Doesn't mean that he's not competent. He did his job and sometimes in a critical situation like that. That's the most important thing. Do Your job. Does. He really go above and beyond not necessarily, but he didn't have to. He did what he was asked to do. And he did it able, and about the time needed to get control the battlefield. You're talking about heroes. We could talk about the the common enlisted man the Ben Crippen World. You know shaking their fists at those approaching rebels as they're coming in. Certainly, the Union Victory Gettysburg is a team effort, but there's a lot of difficult members of our team, and not everybody brings their their a game. Daddy's Burgan you see some examples about July first with guys like. Francis are low, but I think of Winfield Scott Hancock's rise to prominence and on the the real afternoon evening July first is the union forces were rallying on Cemetery Hill? It was anti who arrived on the seal and health. Rally the troops and you know. Don't really see so much vadym! What you do, see a lot of anti taxes. We don't subs AIDS earlier. You're talking about how the confederate soldiers pushed the union soldiers back initially, and we get that sense in the movie I. Think some of the initial reports that generally gets in the movie are that the Union soldiers are retreating back into Gettysburg, and so he orders artillery to fire in the Hale. He sends Major Taylor to deliver message to general you'll that. He wants general to take the hill beyond the town, if practical, so they can get some higher ground, and give me go back to that same sort of concept of higher ground, and he wants that tale to be captured by nightfall. Meanwhile, we see general long streets mentioned to generally something along the lines of how their strategy has always been to act defensively to keep the army intact, but now we can see that generally wants to initiate the offensive. You know you've got the enemy on the run. You don't stop now. Keep going. And Long Street reminds lead. May Have pushback to core, but we got five more coming, so is it common for the confederate army to operate with more of a defensive mindset like we get that idea here in the movie? And then it was changed generally decides. We got him on the Ron. We're going to keep pushing out much of that actually happened. By Gettysburg, Lee's been command around a year of the army and all the Virginia. If we look in his campaigns, his first campaign with the army the seven days around Richmond. It's primarily offensive for the confederates hurling their forces that George McClellan's army to drive from the gates of Richmond. After success seven days Lee begins to move into northern Virginia. We Have A. Initially with stars, tactical fence, but really strategic offensive at second MANASSAS. Lee then bills that victory goes into Maryland once again offensive actions. You'll fight primarily defensive battle. At Antietam a more out of necessity than any desire on his part. There is the great. Defensive Fredericksburg then lay turned around a few months later and on the offensive again a chance to fill so lee is an offensive minded general Lee is not a guys. Sit Back and give the enemy the initiative. He's GonNa take it to his opponent, and that's what he does, and that's offer leads LE- into Pennsylvania and summer relations sixty three. Sedan we're allowed this comes from is again going back to the novel the killer angels. One of the primary sources that Michael Sharon used. James Long streets memoirs from Manassas to addicts. Maybe, some folks are familiar with along long story long straight was a very controversial individual in south after the war, primarily for political reasons, but also because long straight after the fact, when on record is criticizing Lee. And so one of the things. Long straight says in his writings. Is that Cryer to beginning this? You know this great raid. The Pennsylvania Long Street alleges that he Li essentially agreed on. We would only fight the battles and things bat nature, and it's because of the assertion by long, street in his memoirs that carries over then into Shiraz novel, and then ultimately Robert Maxwell script. It was sort of really position the grades. Dramatic conflict is a confederate Eddie's. Is this supposed levers? Long Street thing we wanting to attack long street, wanting to fight on the defense. I'm not saying that didn't happen. I think there's some internal historical evidence to suggest it did. But what I think is a problem with the movie. In that regard is really sort of or trade, and again the novel to I should have, but really sort of portrays Robert. Lee is almost an unhinged of session to attack. You know the is all knowing long street. He knows where all the Yankee core are. Any knows when a high ground is, you know lease. Just kind of a lot of ways almost is off his rocker in just obsessed on making these suicidal attacks and again that is now very. Masive in the Gettysburg Nephrology. People here who say Jesus lives Lee so crazy. Widen any listen to launch. you know, and that's sort of again become. One of these things inserted a demon. Property Lee the guy who used to be the Mardell ran and beyond reproach now it's very fashionable Nachtwey and the killer angels. In the movie daddy's Berg later all for sure. Yeah, that's very different narrative than I expect than I thought when I saw the movie, and it was just expected that they were even more defensive like because they did. Stumble upon each other the way the movie goes in like they weren't expecting this, and so it was oh well now we just gotTa. Survive. Before, we go on with that. I JUST WANNA. Call Out Internet. Trolls have accused me in the past of lost sky. You know for quote unquote. Defending Lee I'm from New York. I'm not a loss caused guy. I'm not defending league, but what's the truth is the truth that I like long. Street but again it I think. I think three things away from this movie elevates the role of John Buford and elevates the role Joshua Chamberlain in the movie really serves to rehabilitate chains long straights Asian jams. This offensive Genius Long Street himself at number of battles are he was very strong offense, but he ended trees him as a guy. Just Watson fights at simple. Lee is not unhinged Gettysburg but I. Think Leeann last year while he has been successful. There's a lot of caveats those victories. He dropped. Yes, he drives clown from around Richmond, but he does destroy McLellan's army number opportunities voss way to do that. at times during the seven days second Manassas. The Union escapes back to Washington Fredericksburg to get back. Cross Rambam can't crush them and it chances Ville. They cross back the river again. He doesn't get to deliver a decisive blow. He's looking for so that's what Lee is really I think looking for is decisive. Blow, liaise, `let's Go and beg here. He's not looking for just another tactical victories, looking for a decisive strategic victory, and that's why I, think drives a lot this thinking. Now let's take a step back from some of the strategy side of it and almost get Kinda put in the context of what this was like because it's very different from. Thinking will a lot of people today we'll see movies and a lot of movies are going to be like world war. Two movies or something like that and battles are just going all the time right and at the end of the first day in this in the movie we see. Everybody stops fighting like it's OK ended the first day the fights over. We're going to figure out what we're going to do. The next day soldiers gathered around the campfire. Is that kind of the way that the this battle wins that they would take a break at night and then let's start back up nine in the morning. Maybe little exaggeration there on my part, but. What I find is the general public that I deal with often sayings fighting you know fighting ends at nightfall, because of Gentlemen's agreement, you know these old fashioned gentlemen, and shake hands, and agreed to greet defy now site until until morning and of course. That's not accurate. What you do see in general is diminished combat at sundown, because they don't have the technology to fight it by for the most part, the fighting does and when it gets start, because you can no longer see you can no longer your formations and things of that nature. Now again there are examples of nightime sliding during the civil warriors, even as Battle of Gettysburg is seventy to show up. Yeah I think at times the civil war. Has Been. It always kind of glosses over the brutality. Of the war, we know the numbers, but we don't think about just how brutal it was and I. Often tell people tours. With civil war needs. Is a scene similar to the opening scene of saving, Private Ryan. Warn just unvarnished, ugly nature, guys, brain, getting splattered hearing bones, cracking limbs, getting blown off. That's the battle of Gettysburg. It's not just this you get shot. Say something profound before you die. It's you're getting hit in the arm. By fifty eight caliber musket balls corner shoulder pieces. That doesn't get portrayed. Really Gettysburg for the most part is relatively bloodless as a movie. It's sanitized version. I think that really sticks in. People's mind is how they view. The civil wars war combat It's every bit as ugly. Modern combat is not uglier frankly. That's a great point and the problem is and I'm even thinking this as we record this, you know the history channel just ended last night three part series on grant. The other the other side of that coin is often when Hollywood whether it be movie or even documentaries, and frankly documentary makers should know better, too. Many of these civil war battles movies though also often look like you know. The wwe always tell people in a movie. It's an. Every civil war battle in a movie will end with a fistfight. You know, forget about the Napoleonic linear tactics and formations, every civil and you see at Gettysburg. At least you know little, round top PICKETT's charge, but every civil war movie ends with guys. Just, running into each other and screaming and punching and club each other with muskets about and of course they did have that. Did. Have that realize, but I would love to see a movie whereas for God's Sakes once we just do both the. TOPIX because that's what the civil law. And you can blaze away at each other with the rifle muskets for twenty minutes on film s you want, but again every battle doesn't end with guys just running and jumping on top of each other, and kick each other in the groin, and all that stuff also began it or you see a couple unfortunate saints. Eddie Star in the movie I should say. Now that you say yeah is like you. You see them charging and okay. Now now it's the phase of the battle where we put on the bayonets and get close combat and okay. Now it's the phase of the battle where. Know. You're beyond the the van at all right now I guess, let's let's go at it. You know and I hadn't thought about that until you mentioned it and I'm glad you mentioned the bayonet, because that's what people think of how you would fight. One percent of all battlefield casualties inflicted during the civil war. One percents was inflicted by bayonets. Allow. I would imagined that'd be a lot more. They never close. He'll usually you didn't get close enough or in the mid. If you do have hand to hand combat, frankly cracking guy's skull open for butter your rifles lot easier stabbed him. And I think that's once again. Go back to this point. The civil war people want to sort of warm and cuddly war. It's not. It's it's ugly. It's brutal and so it's in civil wars how we want the war to. As opposed to what it actually was. Again you see examples in the movie Gettysburg. The part of that too permeates from I think the whole brother against brother, saying being overplayed and again the movie daddy's bird, although there's some great scenes it. Oh the notion of Hancock in armistead, you know. Did these guys know each other? Yes, were they friends? Yes, did they spend the entire battle of Gettysburg mooning over each other and crying over each other like they do in the movie, No but again you know you sort of set up a novel and then a movie. Scrap of you know the guys on each side. You're almost like brothers and they're crying. Crying over each other and you know, screw the fighting I'M GONNA go over there under a flag of truce. Just see you know kind of thing and and things like that and again it. All Bill SORTA perpetuates this idea that they would say quote. Unquote Gentleman's or he fought by guys who if they were brothers doggone that they could ben close enough? That's something that I think from the civil war as a whole. It's a lot of people. See that as it was you know. Friends fighting against friends and family against family, and so I wonder I'm thinking out loud here if you know they're kind trying to. Portray almost that overall civil war aspect of a lot of these people knew each other on both sides, and so if they weren't fighting against each other will be friends, and so they're trying to find characters in there in the movie to portray that aspect. Of overall a lot of that is true. They did know each other they did serve together in Mexico. They did go to west point together, but two and a half years into the war you know. Are they really saying? Hey, Eric over on the other side did on thinking. They're planning tactics and strategy and stuff like that and again we got it. You know it's not a documentary. It's Hollywood. It's sabotaging characters and you know from Jerry. Does that amber, so say something nice about. We talk and I think the movie reinforces the idea that the civil war in many ways is. The Grand Kiro epic an American history. And I think it's something that you know. Almost you had written by the Greeks of most in Gettysburg. Climactic moment so you're trying to find think about Greek epics. There's these little lessons that are trying to be totally greater issues at play, and that's what we we do so subconsciously with Gettysburg so warned certainly the movie. Gettysburg just reinforces that do I think handcock thinking about armistead durn's battle, absolutely not and Hancock, would you everything in his power to absolutely Nyah late armstead his troops, they come to us from. There's no quarter going to be given here and ours. That would do the same to handcuff. Friendship out the window. Continuing on with the battle, as far as the movie is concerned, we get onto day to which would be Thursday July second, eighteen, sixty three, and this is where we see general Lee is ordering his troops at the beginning of the day. And that's when they start to realize you know there's this ridge that runs around Gettysburg. Right and we're starting to get this idea that okay. Here's going to be another big part of the battle, and at the end of the Ridge. There's two large hills. Let around top in big round top. According to the movie there's no union troops on those. And So lead decides to order his men to attack those two hills. There's a line of dialogue in the movie where Lee Tells Long Street that. He wants this to be the final battle of the war Ryoji. Yeah exactly you know, so he he half expected general meat and the bulk of the Union army to be gone by the time they woke up in the morning that this was not gonna be a big conflict after all. Lee doesn't know this in the movie, but as viewers we get to see chamberlain. His men are given orders to defend the hills, and they're told that you're the last line of defense so similar type of storyline that we had earlier where okay this entire war rests on and okay well, if the entire war rests on this battle, you guys are the last line of Defense on these hills, so therefore it just adds those steaks to defending these two hills. So how much of that strategy that we see where the confederate to try to take the two hills essentially trying to? As movie explains it get around the union positions and. Defeat them from from that angle. How much of that strategy was actually at play? Liaise try to driving troops off of a hill. It's just not little round saw. It's so Terry Hill. Center Union line the movie. compresses and greatly simplifies the confederate plan on July second. There's a lot that's left out that I think. Once again, you gotta cut things out, and it's not documentary, but you know I think this idea that Lee is looking to July, second to the day that he so tired of war and violence that the only way to end it by inflicting immense amount of carnage on opponent. Yes, there's a lot goes on. There's a guy we adore named Dan sickles. That's never really talked about the plays. A role in July second long shirt gets to lay get into position There's an attack on the northern end of the line. Ron culp sold cemetery. Hill doesn't really get talked about so it is a very simplified view, but lease objective on July second is cemetery, Hill and cemetery rich. He says himself is report would agree on that and so what what Lee does, which that again the movie Kinda Sorta gets right what lead does. He does direct Long Street to basically attacked union laugh with an idea of they driving up and dislodging the union forces. From Cemetery Hill cemetery rage so little round top. By itself is never specified as as an objective. What happens though? The Guy that are mentioned union general. Dan Struggles from New York. Without orders from general need moves forward in kind of reshapes and takes the whole union less legout, -sition so long streets back does begin at about four o'clock in the afternoon. The Union last slide doesn't look really the way we expected to look or the way George. Mean expected it looked. So long straight goes, INTO ACTION Really with a lot of. Chaos and confusion surrounding. What's going on on the Union last? which again you know, it was going to happen in warfare anyways, but while all this is going on Chamberlain's commanding officer. Strong Vincent, who we see briefly in the movie. Vincent decides he is going to occupy little round top, and put the twentieth into position there as the confederates are now moving around the union last Zeh, and upcoming or little round top, and yes, they tried to dislodge the twentieth so again. Part is accurate to you know to that extent, but again the idea that anybody who's really looking at little round top. It's okay if you roll up to twentieth, a all flying is GonNa is an and the whole army is going to be on the road on. That wasn't happening, and frankly it would have been totally unrealistic and cross. You know one of the highlights in the movie. For many years. People came here. They wanted to see where Chamberlain thought they wanted to save. Thought. Need greatly elevated. The status of the twenty is hanes. It also cinematic perspective it's it's various active. It's just not all that accurate. Alabama's route another county outsource source. Somebody bashes me there. We're not trashing chamberlain I like. Joshua Glenn I liked the. Name. Could Chamberlain story is he is told to hold his ground. Any holds his ground acid story. He's era. Let me say that again. Joshua Chamberlain is a here. It just doesn't win the battle of Gettysburg single-handed. Could Kinda SORTA come. Back. You mentioned sickles moved the left flank. was that something that he did because he knew about the confederate positions, and and kind of anticipated that, or was that almost like just a pure coincidence just happened upon that while they could argue with that for a hundred and sixty six whatever year we're up to. The long story short is. Thought. The Peach Orchard, which again is an important position at the Gettysburg battlefield, which doesn't really play into the movie at all, but each orchard along the Evans for road cycles thought that would be a better position for his troops and artillery. He also did. Thank confederates we're going to attack is swank, and because of that people's for there's some some merits singles argument, but he does it without orders from general meade and that really disrupts so out. Out of general fans, which again you don't tell you the movie you know that's a big dramatic reason. Why Strong Vincent the Twentieth Maine End up going a little round top, and you don't get any of that drama in the movies that would be kind of the deal. They mentioned that in the Basel that we that would maybe interesting. Onscreen land sickles screwed up. We gotTA. We gotta go out there and they really don't do that. And Desire Again I love Dan segments to see Sehgal's on the big screen echoing what Jim said about the twentieth, Maine and Chamberlain what they did was incredibly heroic on July second. But over time they've oma spin. Mythology is there was deified it's not just winning the battle by making their stand and making their charge. They win the battle of Gettysburg by doing so the Union wins the civil war. Therefore, we're able to become the nation. We Are you know. Basically you can draw a line out from little round top. All the way to you know if it wasn't for chamber will be speaking. German right now. That of course leads to blow back as well. There's an entire cottage industry of people now. That just Bash Chamberlain all the time. You know which is unfair. Never said he was the great heroes battle. He never asked throughout. Others have made him that, but never did it himself, and even if he did embellish a little bit in his post, war memoirs guess what every Civil War Guy who wrote a memoir embellishes record. That's what human beings do, and it's so so yes, Zach said there's cottage industry that likes to bash. Chamberlain and you know what you're not gonna get that from, us. 'cause we, we're not, we're not. We all we all WanNa be hero of the story, we all. And and I think what happens with Chamberlain. Of all characters in the movie chamber on I think is the most relatable to the average filmgoer. I don't know what it's like to be. Robert I didn't graduate second. Class. A West Point I. Don't know if that's like. I can relate to a college professor. I can relate to a teacher and I think what Shabelle and symbolizes for people is the hope that if you were in a desperate situation that you could rise to the occasion? And make a difference. And, so that's. Why people identify so much chamberlain more so than I think other characters in the movie, but it's a great story, you know. I mean a year before the battle chambers teaching philosophy and religion at Bowdoin College in Maine. Chain was not the only citizen soldier. We have battlefield. In fact, the majority of them were. But sharing. Just finds himself. Historically the right place right time that people are drawn to. Why you mentioned earlier not to get too far outside this movie in particular, but when you mentioned saving private Ryan and the mention of Chamberlain being a teacher, while the hero in Saving Private Ryan Tom Hanks character, he's also a teacher, and it makes him very very relatable. It reinforces the idea of. I'm doing a job. I'm not looking to be a hero and doing the best I can with the hand that was dealt to me and sometimes that's all we can do in license happens on a battlefield. Sometimes you get a good position other times you know. And sometimes it's just a very fickle difference between the two. Very well said. Moving onto the last day of the battle as far as the movie is concerned July third, of course, they wouldn't have known when the sun went up that that was going to be the last day. At least as far as movie is concerned, it doesn't seem like they have any idea that is going to be the last eight a battle out dinner up to you, but somebody say that doesn't Garnett or some. This is going to be the last day so. The movie guys are. All soldiers news giving the final day because early in more, the second ominous music was piped in over the battlefield to let them know this is a serious day. They need to get their heads in the game. My favorite part of the movie. Along long planning on July. Third is my favorite part of the movie. Is it Andrea percent accurate again? Probably not it's my favorite part is movies. Don't be dissing the ominous music. I like that. But as the movie explain things at seminary rage, generally orders General Long Street to take general Pickett's and laid a charge to the heights in the center, and the plan is to split the federal. Line Long Street says there are three federal core up their their well entrenched, and his men are going to sustain like fifty percent casualties. Little later, he flat out tells me that he believes this attack is gonNA fail. He says this mostly because the men will have to walk a mile over open, they're going to be under constant enemy fire the entire time. But Lee doesn't agree. He says he's never left. The field in command of the enemy retreats, not an option. We're GONNA. Win This. They have command of the high grounds, but in the long slope in the center. They're gonNA break. That's what Lee insists right? He insists that general Pickett's their fresh. They haven't engaged in battle yet, so he's confident that they're going to prevail. And movie takes us to the Union side where Chamberlain's men are relieved by Colonel Rice's Zeman and the movie explains. This as an order to give Chamberlain's men, the well needed rest from the previous day's fighting. Of course, they're asked to move right to the center, which from a moment ago in the movie, it's exactly where General Pickett's GONNA attack, and as I was watching this, I was like okay. This has to be a Hollywood moment where this is just to incidental that for this to be real right that chamberlain men were ordered to rest by moving exactly where. The confederates plan to attack. was at Hollywood moment, or is that actually how it happened? That's Hollywood moment now again it's it's been a long time since I've read the novel, but I'm pretty sure they more or less replay that in the novel and he just point that out. 'cause people like to blame the movie. The movie is following the playbook. It's novel. You know fairly closely, but now you're right it it. Chamberlain's moved on the morning of July third. He's not on little round top. He is moved closer to the center of the Union line, but he's not any you know in the movie. They got put Jeff Daniels stick. Have, you know he's not anywhere near that in reality and you'll notice to you. Don't see the Twentieth Maine. Citing you don't see. And his brother fighting. They're just kind like hanging out the whole time. This is going on so. They from A. Literary me after tile. These people together you can have this great hero chamberlain, just watching from afar, so it's a way to kind of put a bow on it, and but you're there on some Terry Ridge. There's not really close to the angle where they're at so that you will be licensed tank in there but But you know as hey I've never written a Pulitzer. Prize winning novel. So who am I to criticize Michael Sheriff throughout? Thank right yeah. Well! That's a great point that it is following the the novel side, and not as much the historical, so you think from each iteration. It's going to get a little bit further from what actually happened. Yeah. You know not what gets right to some of it you to some of your kind of your introduction to this segment. To what I think, they get right is I do think long street was skeptical about these plants that day. What I don't think they get ride. Is You know again in the movie? The we'll go from ominous music kind of mystical music, mystical music kind of places. Lease stares off into space. Amend just kind of absent mindedly says in the center they will great. No, no robbery Lee thought the what were and what they don't convey is how much he relied on his artillery. He's thought his artillery, but break up the union defenses and therefore make it possible for a lot of long. Long St Century to to Reach Cemetery Ridge fellow. We know it didn't happen. We know the Union. Juan save all the cards and letters for the folks who think I'm going lost ause again because I'm not the point being that the movie just as does a disservice I. Think the property. Leave again as I said earlier. This is a moment where animation seem on in might be a bad idea, but the the real Robbie. Lee Thought with coordination between infantry and artillery, but work and I. DO think we'll on streets up. Does that said I think that part move deaths in other movie? And I think there's sort of dialogue between the two like I said. It's my personal favorite part. Option we view what becomes was Pickett's charge with the with the genius of hindsight. We know it's GonNa, fail so therefore because it failed and too bad idea well, no! I, actually argue I think Lee is actually thinking somewhat logically on July third with the options that he's given. Doesn't mean they're good options. But I, don't think it just this attack the centers and they'll break I. Just know it. God's will. As Lee would say I think it it. It doesn't serve the way because I. Think Lee does think through it logically. We didn't entire episode on July third. What was Lee thinking? Why does he make the? Attack he does and and I. Think you know it's a lot more complex the movie? MAKES OUT TO BE. As I recall it the way the movie is describing it basically. He thinks that the forces at the center are going to be much much less. You mentioned the artillery I think the movie does mention that as well that they want to do a barrage of artillery fire, and then they're going to send. It's called pickets charged, but there's a long streets Trimble Pettigrew and pick it in the movie and his ideas that they're going to be able to break through I. Think the movie listed like fifteen thousand men and so. From that perspective thinking of. If. He's assuming that there's you know five thousand. You're sending fifteen thousand men. The logic there. At least in my mind, it's like okay well. This might actually work. And you know I don't know if Sheri used this. As a sore spot lease, military secretary wrote after the war. That was basically what they were trying to do that. You know initially they were looking at maybe attacking slang again, because a lot of things happened in the morning of July third Lee calls off, and then they started to look for another week void where they got Cemetery Ridge kind of the Center Cemetery Ridge May saw legitimately might be a week. Wind an issue through us at it again supported by artillery, it could potentially bring. So again, they don't get I might take, is they? Don't get the details really right in the movie but I think the big picture for me is is close enough to be an accurate. And I think he can come away from the movie with a general sense of what was going on the charge. Just have Tabuley Jones, playing Lee instead of our gene or something like that. We would come off a whole lot better. And I kind of equate your Pickett's charge. It soil last seconds of football game a team a Hail Mary Pass. If. He does their job. There's a chance it could work, but nobody blocks and quarterback at sacked. It's a failure. And I think that's Kinda. What Lee is looking at people assumed will win. Do Fellow Salts ever work? Will the they work? Otherwise people would not do that. Enough Times where they were successful and Lee is actually. Commission this attack to what was joy third, probably the weakest part of the Union line fat point. It just wasn't enough. Overwhelming force to to carry the position. And the artillery doesn't work. The artillery works. He's got a fighting chance. If it doesn't work, he's got no chance. At the way that the movie shows it, obviously, it doesn't work, but there's it doesn't mention how many people die. Just see a lot of people dying course the fighting turns to bayonets and close range very very quick. You drop to get married somewhere year. Yeah I saw suplex after. Go frame by frame for that one. I remember that. Director Scott. What after the battle, Martin, Sheen's version of generally takes responsibility for this. He says it's my fault. General Pickett's there. He's like Oh you must look to your division pick. It's got tears in his eyes, and he states I generally I have no division, and so that's how the battle of Gettysburg. Officially comes to an end as far as the movie is concerned. How well did the movie do showing how the battle actually ended there after the failure of Pickett's charge I think the movie does a decent job showing how PICKETT's charge. You know the Lee legal been oversold Lysol. It's all my fault, and as you sat encouraging picket or that that stuff did happen. You, know I think if I directed that movie directed. Those seems a little bit differently because I still think, Robert earley comes off strong and forceful enough at that moment in the movie you know people who witnessed this in real life, said this was a hell of an inspiring moment it. Oh, the confederate army is thinking. You know this could be lights out if the unions Yankees counter-attacked. We're not going to be. You have robbery coming out saying boys. It's all my fault. Reform Reform with me. It will be ready and again I don't I don't think the movie does a great job with. But I think again they get bigger kind of useful basic idea, right? Is Far as the end of the that or you know a little bit of different story. Thank you the last time we see lien long straight. They're sitting around a campfire. Both very much looking the worse for wear and the total disintegration of Robert Lee that we have now seen on screen for the last four hours. I think just becomes complete as he on the spurs sowed into tears. I am so very tired. Lee In his lieutenants Jeb Stuart manteca bunch of Stewart. The movie gives a bad rap do Leeann. His lieutenants do a heck of a job stage managing their exit in the retreat from Gettysburg the League was allowing himself the feel disappointed and defeated for a couple of minutes on the evening of thirteen, sixty three, he turned out around pretty quick. Young retrieve, and you know history tells us you know ultimately off the Yankees long enough throughout the army. Yeah I think even the way. If you look at the end, you know way. It's all my salt. He's kind of. doddering old man there whereas long. Bring up the guns get line organized Leah longer both doing that other inventions are doing that and what gets lost. This idea, it's all my fault. What Lee will insides now you need all my good soldiers. Reform helped me get out of this lease immediately. Thinking what the next step is is I think expecting there could be some union troops or cross Satori Ridge very soon. He was going to be prepared, slap. That's a great point that you can't mean. You can't just give up. You gotta bail to get out of it. Right, And I would argue outdoor on record as say this I think Lee's finest moment ever is commander of the army. Northern Virginia is the retreat from Gatti's Berg. Getting his army back into Virginia relatively intact with all the supplies with most of your wounded, it allows the confederacy fight on for almost two more years. Anybody can invade. It's a lot harder to get fifty sixty miles out of enemy territory safely. History is full of examples, think of Napoleon leaving Russia. Of how, just absolutely devastated his army that doesn't have l'armee northern Virginia, and they're beaten. They're not seated. That's a great point. I know we've talked about quite a few different misconceptions that people might have from this movie, but are there any other major myths or misconceptions that you get on your tours from people who have seen this movie that we haven't talked about yet? Yeah! I just touched down Jeb Stuart a moment ago. Because I think that's a blatant, you know the idea that Jon Stewart was up no US ride around getting his name in the papers. You know kind of saying that's the perception. You got the general public a lot Oh. Yes wasn't even use the phrase joyriding like they don't remember anything else from the movie, but then joyriding off on you. So yeah, Jeb Steward joyriding look You know I'm not saying. Stewart's movements send Pennsylvania where the highlights of his career. They were not storms given discretionary orders on how he was supposed to get into into Pennsylvania, and he's trying to reconnect with the army of Northern Virginia. He's not a joy riding which again. That's rats. A really really common s yellow other thing. I'll add to when we're talking about little round top somebody'll Dang us if we don't mention if there's no fill in the movie, you know you have a less lying. Outright flags or heavy fighting going on at called sale, and there are students battles and thinks that. Call, sale the union right flank is even strategically more important than around. So you know we should, we should mention that for the folks to question for me. In terms of myths, we kind of cover for one. There's two real big ones for me. one I think is the the portrayal day one which we already talked about, but I think the other ideas that. All the confederates had to do just move around the Union army. Then it's simple movement that if long street was just listened to, and what's interesting, is Lee actually addresses long streets proposal in his official report what he basically says. We don't have the cavalry to screen it. We don't have the logistical ability to move our entire. Just go line back and also we have to assume that the union army's just GonNa. Let us do it. And so I think Lisa's. It's just not feasible and I've. Had People vehemently argue of me on tours the? It could have been done. There's a difference between what you WanNa, do and what you can do on the battlefield. And I think. Lee realized it's just not. Tour, work, practicable. To do that? Sounds like between that and the charge like a lot of the decisions, especially towards the end of the battle that Lee made were. Between a rock and a hard place here's what I can do. Try To make the best decision you can in less than ideal situation by any means it's Lee grasping for the initiative once again. Louis has the initiative in that campaign up until June twenty eighth. A lot of things happened that changed that lease, attempting to regain the initiative that he never gets again and would thoughts. Your drive in the actually begins reacting to the Union army. Yeah. That's right. I mean as you go from. The thirtieth of first and the second of third you can literally see lease options being removed from table for longer than Pennsylvania and I would echo Eric's point. You know the idea of moving around to the confederate. Ride is not nearly as easy or even possible this. They make it in the movie, but again they WANNA. Give us long street the The all knowing nights. I just say I think Tom Berringer's performance along street is totally underrated I think it's best performance in the movie, but he gets lost under that bad dear. Everybody remembers the Baragan I think. Singalong street does a great job as a barringer does a great job. Thank you so much for coming on a chat about Gettysburg for anyone wanting to learn more about the real history. There's your podcast called the battle of Gettysburg podcast. And, you've also got tours of the battlefield as well so my final question is kind of a two parter. The first part is for someone listening to this. Who wants to walk through history by visiting the battlefield itself? Can you share a little bit of information about your tours? How someone can plan a visit? And then the second part is someone who listening the can't visit, Gettysburg, so they want to hear more from your podcast can give an overview of you podcast where someone can listen. Yes, so I was trying to find our podcast. We are found wherever podcasts are found on numerous platforms. You just type in even just Gettysburg. You'll find this the battle of Gettysburg podcasts. We, recommend follow us. Our social media's well On. We have lots of great discussions. Their interactions for fans. If you can't get Gettysburg I, think we're the next best thing listening to us. Talk about it if you're coming to Gettysburg just a couple of ways that you can get tours. Through the Gettysburg Visitor Center, which is typically open in a noncovic world. Gettysburg Heritage Centre look up the Association of licensed battlefield. Guides these contacts Thirty Association of Licensed Battlefield Guides or is your following Eric My podcast on facebook? You can message us directly, and maybe we could. For. Lots of different ways to do it, but the important thing is. We want to get people to get his loin. We spent like last hour. China bashing the movie. The movie daddy's does well is I think it creates a spirit. Spirit of Gettysburg spirit of Gettysburg is important spirit of why it's. In the mid, nineteen, Ninety S, that movie did get a lot of people come visit us in Gandhi's. He's Oregon I would love to see her as I'm sure I'd love to see a resurgence and. And you know have found. And I think that's what we should thank. For either one know we're bashing picking apples. Shari if nothing else I hopefully it raises awareness. When I started this podcast, it was one of the reasons why I started. was he able to connect with with folks like you? That know that information and being able to. Get that deep dive of information that you could never get from an hour long conversation as great as the information's been so far so much more information out there and I recommend if you are coming together Berg whether you've been here hundreds of times, or it's your first time. You're well-served getting a license battlefield guide We've been here since nineteen fifteen. We are truly the best in the world. Do and helping people connect to and understands battles so if you're coming here? With Allah Guide. And we can tailor the toward almost any special interest you know I. Have I have specialty topics? Eric especially topics our colleagues. Do you know if there's an aspect of the battles? You WanNa dies on or if you just want a general overview we can do we can. Areas. That's fantastic I'm sure to add all those links into the show notes for this episode as well. Thank you again so much for your time. This episode of based on a true story was produced by me down the Fed. I'd like to thank. Jim Eric once again for their time and expertise and helping US separate fact from fiction in the movie Gettysburg. If you WANNA learn even more about the real history of the battle, go subscribe to their excellent podcast, called the battle of Gettysburg podcast. In fact, they actually have to parter where they take a super deep dive into the historical accuracy of both the movie and the book the movie. Movie is based on so they cover a lot more detail in those episodes than we did here today or schedule a tour. If you WANNA see the places where the fighting took place and don't forget about Jim's great books, either there are three of them as of this recording, they are sickles at Gettysburg. The controversial civil war general, who committed murder, abandoned little round top, and declared himself the hero of Gettysburg. Jim also co authored a book with Brit. Eisenberg called Gettysburg's Peach Orchard Long Street sickles and the bloody fight for the commanding ground along Emmett's. Berg wrote. And last, but certainly not least Jim Co authored the first battlefield guide about the final attack with Wayne mottes and cartographer Steve Stanley called Pickett's charge at Gettysburg, a guy to the most famous attack in American history. And of course, if you're driving or unable to look those up for now than I'll make sure to add links to those books, their podcast and tours in the show notes for this episode as well as on the shows on the web based on a true story PODCAST DOT com. Okay now it's time for the answer to our truth and lie game from the beginning of the episode as a refresher, here are the true truth and one light. Number One. One percent of all battlefield casualties during the American civil war were caused by bayonets. Number two winning the battle of Gettysburg did not guarantee victory for winning the American civil war. Number three. The Union planned the battle of Gettysburg to push the confederacy out of Pennsylvania. You find out which one is ally? Let's start with number. One one percent of all battlefield casualties during the American civil war were caused by nets that. Is True. Eric out that a lot of movies tend to depict fighting during the civil war as turned into close combat every time quickly with bayonets, only one percent of battlefield casualties during the American civil war were caused by bayonets. Next. Is Number two winning? The Battle of Gettysburg did not guarantee victory for winning the American civil war. That is also true as both Jim. And Eric mentioned even though the Union army won both the battle of Gettysburg and would go on to win the overall war. It wasn't necessarily the victory at Gettysburg that let the union when the war as they pointed out, generally still managed to get his army out of Gettysburg and continue fighting for two more years. That means number three is the life. The Union planned the battle of Gettysburg to push the confederacy out of Pennsylvania. Jim and Eric pointed out that the battle of Gettysburg is what military historians refer to as a meeting engagement. Basically even though both sides did know about the presence of enemy, soldiers nearby, neither side planned out this massive battle in fact, depending on how events played out. It's very possible that there could have just been a few clashes and not much more. Of course we know from history. That's not what happened. As the battle of Gettysburg ended up being the bloodiest battle of the American civil war with over fifty thousand casualties between July first and July third, eighteen, sixty three. That just about wraps up our time together today before we go the last thing I like to do on each episode is to share how much time and effort went into creating this episode. I know, that's not something that most podcast do and that's exactly why I'm sharing this information. If there's one thing that is surprising to people who are new to podcasting or never created podcast before it's how much time goes into creating them. So I figure, maybe if you find out more about how much time and money goes into creating podcasts like mine than maybe you'll start to appreciate all those podcasts that you listen to for free just a little bit more. With that set today's episode took a total of thirty nine hours to create and cost twenty four dollars and thirteen cents out of pocket expenses. And as I always do I. WanNa make it clear that time and cost is only my time for this one episode, so in other words that thirty nine hours did not include the countless hours of my guest time researching the subject matter we talked about. It also does not include the time that it takes for me to do podcasts related things that are not a part of creating this one episode, for example, the time it takes to maintain the based on a true story website, social media email, and all those other little things. Are Creating podcast episode that are required to make podcast. And similarly on the expensive side that twenty four dollars and thirteen cents is just for things specifically for this one episode, which mostly is going to be research material. It doesn't include any of the podcast relating expenses that go beyond making this one episode for example, the cost of the microphone that I'm talking into right now. The cables that are hooked up to the microphone the audio interface that the microphone is plugged into the computer that the audio interfaces plugged into the software that I'm recording this on right now. All the PODCAST and website hosting costs that are a monthly subscription and on and on. All of those things take time to set up and maintain and cost money that go beyond things that are associated with this one episode, but they are all things that are required because if I didn't do those things. There wouldn't be any episodes of based on a true story at all. In a nutshell, this podcast may be free to listen to, but it's not free to create, and that's why I'm so thankful for the wonderful people who are helping to support the show financially so that we can keep it going. 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