Oblique Strategies (Entry 856.RO1202)
This awesome we are Jennings and John Rodrick. We speak to you from our present which we can only assume as your distant past the turbulent time that was the early twenty. I singer during the great cataclysm that will surely befall our civilization. We began this monumental reference of strange obscure human knowledge these recordings represent our or attempt to compile and preserve wonders esoterica that would otherwise be lost so whether you're listening from an advanced civilization or have just reinvented the technology to decrypt our transmissions. This is our legacy to you. This is our time capsule. This is the on the bus you have accessed entry eight five six dot. Ro One two zero two certificate number two six three eight oblique strategies yeah you are Pop Music Fan. I think I mentioned it enough. That people probably have a sense that you are more culturally diverse than just a guy who knows a lot of trivia big music nerd music nerd third film Nerd Book Nerd Poetry Nerd Preeti big poetry nerd. Yeah I would say yeah. I I have been impressed with your knowledge of poetry over the years. Yeah that often comes up. You'll be like Ken what what Emily Dickinson poem. Does this remind you our all the Bert came hopping down the block. He did not know I saw and you're like yeah. Yeah yeah yeah right heavy man. I definitely will throw out some William Carlos Williams and you're just right there bear with me. I'll just say the next line say the next. It's a funny thing we just high five each other. No one knows what we're talking about but you. You're a David Bowie fan yeah yeah. I know this about you love Bowie. How do you feel about Bowie's. Berlin period is thin White Duke era. I understand understand. He might be with us today if used maybe half of them as much cocaine as he did though you never know during his do you never know. Maybe the cookie is is what kept him going. There's no there's not approved link. Ken between copious cocaine use and and cancer I would say there's not as it's hard to pick a favorite David Bowie record or song for there's probably not a song I like better than sound vision off of low. Heroes is an amazing using album. That's just great work and it sounds like it's coming from another planet and so how how much do you know about Brian Eno who produced just those records. How much do you credit that era that trip tick of Bowie albums to Brian Eno being a little younger. Can you like my first exposure to Brian. Eno was as you twos producer that's right and so I think of him as a youtube producer first stood foremost oh and he's the also the guy from Roxy Music and David Bowie producer and but I think he's probably one of the greatest most innovative music producers of the Rock era right he he produced for those of you not not familiar with the the production credit of albums he and Daniel Len wa co-produced unforgettable fire which was U2's super big nineteen eighties record where they were they transitioned from being a kind of quirky Irish new wave band slightly Christian Catholic new wave band to being to being being like a major major international band of superstar anthem factory and then Joshua Tree and Achtung baby as well but where pineal when Wa is an extremely accomplished musician you know he can play the the pedal steel like nobody's business you know never credited himself as as much of a musician at all he much more sort of thought aww himself as a conceptual artist when he joined roxy music in the early days it was it was by happenstance. You know he met the Sax Player. US subway station is that right and I was like Hey WanNa play the synthesizer and he in the early days refused to appear onstage. He he sat behind the mixing console and added the symph affects and then also actually sang backing vocals from from back back from the mixing board. Yeah that kind of seems like that goes with the cerebral edge we have a variety now right yeah that's right and when he did start appearing onstage in Roxie music and roxy music had a certain kind of onstage look and feel but e-e-e-e-no came out in basically a Peter Gabriel in genesis style costumes big elaborate outfits that you know that set him apart kind of like the guitar player of Limp Biscuit who often wore black contact lenses. You have to wonder whether wrestling bad thought about that. You really do considering the rest of the conversation. I was thinking of Rock and rock. Yes limpest. Get us well. You're right Bryan ferry was trying to present himself as a pretty swab operator exactly and then he's got his wing man. Dan is a real peacock but you know came at music from from outside and and added added added kind of I think I think his approach to it was. I'm not here to be a virtuoso. I'm here to I use music and sound in particular as as another palate in the creation of art. He's an idea guy. He's an idea the ago and in that he was influenced by the painter Peter Schmidt who was an English painter who kind of was a polymathic artist and someone someone who who although was a painter expanded his purview to include kind of every different way you could make art and was part of that sixties movement where the experience of art was was rated as highly as the as the product or or in fact our was no longer considered a product but it's not an artifact anymore right. It's more path or a or a an emotional experience or a or a journey and is this his work. I'm looking at it. It's kind of watercolors others. Yeah often very minimal landscapes yeah his his pallet. They almost feel like they're made out of ripped paper or their multimedia works with their representative. That's interesting actually pretty which I was not expecting. They're beautiful and he also was a teacher and our teacher feature and influenced. I think had an at an outsized influence on a generation that came after him he wasn't it wasn't all conceptual sexual right. Yes you're seeing a lot of thought I was going to be like a guy standing with a bullhorn under a you know a bucket droppings Vienna sausage yeah yeah right right or you know or or sort of John. Cage figure who are white canvases or just begins a process where the artist no longer longer has his hands on the work but just sets it free and let's the art you know take its own path now. These are very controlled and show a high level of crap. They were GONNA album. Uncovers honestly well kind of what what what bonds I guess Schmidt and John Cage and a lot of a lot of artists of this period is a is a recognition that the artistic impulse does not it doesn't need need to be bound to logical progression at doesn't need to one thing doesn't need to follow from another ride. You can you in in in both producing and consuming art. You can have none hierarchical experiences are you can have lateral kinds of approaches to art you can you can a effectively make it by not focusing on technique by. I not pursuing an end goal right and you see this in a lot of modern art a lot of extemporaneous art where an end and and ultimately it it factored into or figured deeply into punk the idea that being good at it and pursuing pursuing a intentional course actually kind of throttled here creative not just your creative impulse or gift but like like creativity itself. I'm I'm a little skeptical. We've talked about this a little skeptical about that whole idea because I do admire craft. I do admire technique and what I'm working on something. I actually enjoy constraints the idea that you know the idea. That's it's a purely intuitive thing that maybe anybody can do can be sloppy work right right and in particular with modern art. How many people are I don't like the whole my kid could do this thing right but it's rarely true to the to the uninformed. I guess to the untrained trained I it could be difficult to distinguish between art made by a university versity educated artist and art made by an elephant with a paintbrush and this is the this is the criticism of it. Although of course when you're confronted by a by a truly great work of art I think even a lay person will find their their reaction is when you absolutely can tell a beautiful work and it isn't just it isn't just happenstance yeah yeah the more the more I look at art. I realized that every single thing I like everybody you know a large group of people like as well like people can just tell what's good good and what what they like to look at yeah you can put it's hard to find a you know a great piece of art that is that you could buy to put on your wall even because if you like it enough other people do this guy can start charging tens of thousands of dollars canvas. Well you can see it in in those exhibitions where you'll have a a charcoal drawing by Rembrandt and then a charcoal drawings by his students who are also great artists and who are in the process of being trained. I mean every once in a while. You do see a work that expert can't quite attribute definitively to an artist or to his school but for the most part a rembrandt charcoal and one right next to it by one of his very talented students you just know instantly from the quality the line that this was done by a master and sometimes in the same artist you'll get an art exhibition and you'll you'll immediately say oh those three are the best ones and if you closer those are the three that will have sold right because you know whatever the lightning was that struck those pieces we can all agree. They have it more than the other six but there is. I think a lot of truth to the fact that an artist doesn't always or necessarily understand their inspiration understand Dan. You do not ever sit down and say today. I create my masterwork because if you could that's all any artist would do sit down and and and follow a logical progression to making a great work. It's just terrifying hoping that it comes hoping that it doesn't go away and knowing where it comes from which often often artists just credited with coming down from the sky and and yeah when God played a larger role in in Contemporary Society Eddie people credited religion was the major influence and now you know we have a whole secular arts community that would that struggles to find at a euphemism for God. I've heard some artists talk about how you know. There's no way to pull down the ideas and they frame it as putting themselves in a position to receive see them. You know keeping track of what factors make you prone to inspiration and then trying to duplicate that. Do you need to be with people. Do you need to be the away from other people. Does it Jay up early in the morning. Do you need to be up late. At night. You know just create the create the incubator for it but you never know when fertilization is going to happen right and unfortunately even that is not because because you can set up the exact conditions where you made your your last great work and find yourself utterly blocked whereas on your way into town on on the train you suddenly get electrified by new idea so the the the mind in particular the arch creating mind the art creating impulse and in and in fact this is also true of of any inspiration that you you search for it and don't always find you sometimes did you find it the less you search for it right and this is this is this was understood to be true in ancient times right the the the pursuit of great art and the and the question of using logic to make decisions already was being interrogated did by by people in ancient. China and it is I think best personified by the not personified but best exemplified by the presence of the I Ching I was. I was wondering if that's where you were we talked about this in the John Cage entry that's right and and the I ching played a major role in John cade get John Cage's art and it did also in in Peter Schmidt introducing randomness is that right introducing randomness in the form of kind of you know throwing a lot and believing in some ways that the result of the roll dice and the combination of of sort sort of numerology to discover a like a a an obtuse answer in a in in a in a document collecting all these sort of solutions that will reflect the hand of God or it will reflect it will it will conjure meaning that does exist somewhere. There is an answer. There's you know he recognized. There is an answer outside side of yourself and how to bring it down how to put it into language and how to apply it doesn't very practical ways right each each possible hexagrams. Each arrangement of the lots is related to too short text is that right a message like literally the book will give you the message that you were supposed to get about moment and then your interpretation of it yes he comes and that's carefully chosen to not be direct right and and whole schools evolve a trying to figure out well. Is there a comprehensive theme to interpreting these things it does each person go run off with with an. I'm sorry sorry I mispronounced it. As I ching the itching to each person go take their little message and determine for themselves how that answers their question. It's funny that there's this this a happy medium between advice that would be too specific to be useful and advice that is too general to be useful somewhere in the middle of the where the advice is still all somewhat cryptic it specific enough that it gives you something but cryptic enough that you can still interpret it individualize it for you and your situation listen right and in particular if year if your worldview believes in sort of a a selfless selfless truth or or is if the if the if you're religious world and your political world is is working against Ego to to imagine that your interpretation is also sort of not a sign of your genius but rather a sign of sort of a you know a flow of for lack of effort to add a hippie term to the idea right so these coming from outside of yourself you need to recognize and that that acknowledgement amount of eastern tradition and that incorporation of eastern ideas was happening within the art and and Avant Garde in the West in this same time period the sixties and early seventies it was the time of popularization of yoga and meditating and answered Western Music then all seemed like a new discovery and and was appealing to people because it seemed it was certainly more ancient in in a lot of regards than the western tradition also it hasn't been poisoned by it answers all the needs these people had for religion spirituality without being their parents religion right which was which was now tainted by both real and imagined slights that that had come to that generation and it was applicable to do things like art and exercise and seemed to be all encompassing where a Christian tradition may be didn't a have that sort of fully fully universal application to your priest and said how do I make. This is crazy painting. You know the priest is going to have less to say maybe about it. What Christianity has that specificity. I was talking about. There's a spectrum and Christianity is You know a lot of western. Religion is very far on the on the specificity spectrum like and its primary concern is what happens after you die in some or how to behave according to a a moral path that will ensure your fate right rather than how what is your process a lot of very specific specific suggestions. Here's the way God would like you to dress here. The things God would like you to do here the different things he would like you to do on a Sabbath. Here are the things he wants you to eat. You know there's a lot of that and there's an that's it's very hard to apply specific codes like that to what should my answers questions and answers questions like what kind of person should should. I be on one axis. Should I cheat on my wife or not but it does not answer questions on the axis of what kind of arts should I make right. If you throw the each ing of Christianity the the answer is going to be. Maybe God doesn't want you to make this. If you're having trouble even about not wasting your time so much Brian you know wow that's really good iino was influenced by Schmidt and by cage and was after after he left roxy music because he would be been in Roxy Music for a couple of years and it didn't work out because probably Bryan ferry was wearing ascot's and he was wearing a feathered headdresses and they had a little part of the way then can only have one brian and it doesn't matter if you spell it differently. It's like the homophones O'Brien. You get one one the thing about Brian Eno is he. He is he is very posh Brian. He knows full name. I don't know if you know this is Brian. Peter George Saint John Lebed teast Adila Saal. No whoa really so he's not. He's not like Brian from the block. He's he got a nice art school education creation because his parents can afford an art school education and also he has a he has that kind of rarified gentility. His air sounds so space age. You're like oh well. He changed. He must have changed his name at some point. It's one backwards you know but no it's. It's actually it's a French huguenot name that sounded like Ino- or something I gotTa anglicised into so he came with this blazer under name ready to go yeah right and and and he has a kind of blade runner I mean he's he's slim. He's other other worldly and weirder glasses than anyone else on earth probably like no matter where he is although he does the thing where he's he is restrained. He's not Elton John Right. I mean when he was but he he somehow got. He got little some kind of Scandinavian rigidity to him yeah he he he became more disciplined as time went on but after he left. Roxy Music immediately begin working in what he described as ambient music which was not again in not music where he was searching for the perfect melody but rather music that was that was meant to be experienced as a component of an experience or music that was atmospheric. Yeah it lends a feeling a feeling not a story or a or as you say. Even a melody is fairly often it seems structuralist right and it does it now. We it's been duplicated so many times that it feels almost like you know we hear that kind out of mute music in nature documentary you can't turn on the TV without hearing it but imagine the first time he was like no. This is music to yeah believe me and it was you know it was astonishing launching and it had a bit head of wide ranging effect. I don't know if you've ever listened to music for airports while in an airport. Does it change the work I have if any does you know you walk around an airport with your headphones on listening to music for airports and you're like I get it. Now I get it but it made him a popular his his sort of sonic experimentation made him popular choice for Alan Guard musicians to you employ as a sound effect EST or or in the boys case and a lot of other cases as a producer. It doesn't vary how much a producer actually contributes to the sound of the record absolutely I mean some producers are some producers bring a real engineering mm perspective to records where they use the technology and the tools of the recording media to to make interesting getting drum sounds and to make interesting to to make the compositions more interesting to say why don't we take out that course and put in an hour or hop to the solo and so forth and there are other producers in hip hop right producers. The name producer is given to the person that produces the track the sound that the the rapper wraps over but other producers become real collaborators and are are responsible for the sound of the album the musician brings in the the song and then the producer deconstructed and turns it into a and uses a sonic Palette that belongs to them and I think in the production of of the two albums Daniel Lam wa was the the person that brought the more formal production the guy behind the soundboard that was that had comments on the on the base part and then E-e-e-e-no oh would come in almost as a consultant and add a dreamlike sounds or he would often inspire songwriting changes by asking interesting questions or or posing a opposing an approach because of there's less technique than actually like a a like a very broad concept yeah we'll so in the mid nineteen seventies during this period where Schmidt and Iino and a lot of other people were exploring the process process of making art as a form of art arts education and also art creation of they started to realize that a lot of time what what what inhibits you as an artist. Is that you encounter in a dilemma you encounter a crossroads and you're stymied you can't you don't know what to do next. It's is not a dilemma between two things you are blocked. You don't know what comes next like that. It's a it is a I mean it's a it is a kind of UH. It's the problem of infinite possibility yes when you go in and push record you can do anything you could just make raspberries with your mouth for an hour our and call it an album and if you wanna make something more disciplined if you're looking to make something beautiful it's often it's often been incredibly overwhelming to choose even between three path. I just hate staring at that blinking cursor in my word processor you know like I have nothing to say. A. And something's got to be here. Something has to be here. I have zero ideas and you often. Just start writing right or you're you're. You're you're told to Lynda. Barry would say move your hand. You know like make keep moving until something comes out usually end up just going for a walk I move every other part of my body but I often do sit and just start writing just like blog orbiter darb and eventually I mean you have something to work with. At least that's how we do show clearly. Let's start talking and see if it becomes about something at some point but in the early Seventies Schmidt and iino working separately and inspired by the itching had started to write down on the note cards these little aphorisms that weren't meant to be direct instructions but were meant to cause. Does your your your sort of vertical thinking you're logical process to short circuit big with with the idea. Nia that your creative mind needed to be stimulated needed to be given a problem to solve that wasn't the problem at a hand and by doing that you would take an oblique path of an angle you couldn't have imagined a leading up to do you know a as an attempt to solve whatever your problem and you know and Schmidt were both working on this independently and when they when they realized the other there was was doing a similar thing they compared what they were making they each had a deck of cards and it was and there was a tremendous amount of overlap that's interesting between what what they were doing so they decided to collaborate and they were they were influenced by a writer by the name of Edward de Bono who mm-hmm who'd written a book or had coined the term lateral thinking. I know this guys the lateral thinking guy yeah. Are you familiar with. Have you read. I don't know the air but I remember in the eighties being like teachers who had read the book being suddenly very excited and we had to learn about lateral thinking and so suddenly we get to do something fun in class right where we'd get a problem to solve you know like how would use a block of cheese and a barometer to do X. Right. It's the it's basically the interview questions you get at Google Jake's and also we that's around the time I heard these in the early eighties though situation puzzles you would think I'm talking about John and Mary lying dead on the floor and a puzzle in a puddle of water and you'd I have to kind of figure out what unusual approach to take to the problem to make the story makes sense man points a gun at a bartender once again at a man and he says thank you and leaves happily or something you know what interpretation of the story make sense it's basically it's basically hanging some bananas from the Ceiling Ailing and putting a chair in the opposite side of the room and waiting for the monkey to finger. That's right for a higher dimensional being. That's exactly what it looks like. When is the monkey just GonNa move over the stool. We'll on the classic example apple of it is the judgment of Solomon Right where women are arguing over. WHO's baby who whose baby it is. This and Solomon says let's cut the baby in half and then the true mother is revealed. I read a as a kid. I was very influenced by this book of I think I don't know if they were Chinese. Folktales or later Western evocations of Chinese hotels about a wise judge who's always making these Salomon light confusion rulings. I remember one about a a poor kid who's living being above a bakery and he he era above a restaurant and he thanks them at one point for creating those beautiful smells that help them meet his his poor rice every day and the restaurant tour gets mad and takes him to court and says this guy's been stealing my smells. I demand recompense and the wise Confucian judge thinks and then he nods this is really stuck with me apparently and he says I award Take out all the silver in your pocket. That's what I'm awarding and the port student so sad because he takes it all the silver in his pocket and the judge says now jingle it and he jingles it and the guy says okay now put the money away you took his is the smell of his cooking and now he will take the sound of your coins and I was like this is amazing. How do I how do do I think like that well. Oblique strategies then became a thing that could they weren't just pursuing as a as a neither artist was writing these down just as a you know with the intent of making a book they were writing them down with the idea of making a deck that they could consult something you know in a way a random brain turn up a random card and let the universe tell you right and a lot of them. Were music specific specific. Oh is that I was GONNA ask so. Where these on the specificity spectrum do they actually suggest a tool or technique or they just like be more open? I've been what what kinds of things do these cards say well a lot of them. Were were just general kind of you know. Oblique obtuse recommendations recommendations. Some of them were were specific to to making music like for instance abandoned. Normal instruments is is a is an oblique strategy where you're sitting in your. You're working on a guitar part. It's frustrating. It's frustrating. What do we do go to the oblique strategies you pull out a band endan normal instruments and your left to decide what a normal instrument is. Probably your guitar qualifies as one and try tried to find something in the studio to make to fill the area fill the gap in the song you were trying to fill but with something else you have to literally abandoned your guitar. Are you have to leave it on the Dorsey back and start. Go Banging on the pipes and in the studio washroom take your guitar to the to the front step of a fire station richer talk a little note on the case and so they made this little deck of cards and between the two of them they came up with about one hundred and thirteen cards and they published a publish them. Would you know they made them with the intention of handing them to other people and and and having them be useful like just friends in the art scene or is this. Is this a mass market item. It was it was not a mass market item. At first it was the first edition had they made about five hundred of them and they were you know their handsome because these artists rushing it so it was a little black box box that had these cards inside and they were signed recognize that they were making an artifact and then they were popular with their friends so in nineteen seventy-eight they made another addition this time of a thousand and the number of cards went up from nine one hundred thirteen to one hundred twenty eight you can imagine once he'd made one hundred thirteen of them that you would be inspired and keep making oblique strategies so. I was surprised to learn that in that three years they'd only added fifteen cards it. It seemed like there would be four hundred by seems like every time a little a little. A vague notion occurred to you. You would be like that's a card right right exactly and the following year they're third edition came out a also of a thousand this time. It only had one hundred twenty three card. I want to see the ones that don't make they'd taken five live away now. I don't know I don't know whether it's which of these ideas turned out to be awful. I remember spy magazine used to where they would list. The people who got dropped from WHO's who every year like who who is no longer who I wanna see the non oblique strategies the didn't make you cut out and then there might have been quite a bit of circulation but of of these ideas and there quickly became obvious that not everybody was using these for music and so there were additions of Oblique Strategies. The didn't have musical prompt. I'm looking at a set of them right now and some of them are very specific to music engineering but some of them are like remember those quiet evenings evenings yeah. Here's one that says what goes on good point. That's a great question in fact now there are oblique strategy websites is where you can just go and get a randomized like. I'm sitting in one now. why don't you give us an idea for the show who like what should we do this point emphasize. I'm for size repetitions emphasize repetitions. Now you say emphasize repetitions. We should emphasize repetitions. I'M GONNA I'm GonNa get again always first steps that as a verb and I dig that about it yeah well and it almost seems like the more general they are the better for me and I think in my experience working with them because it just wants his body percussion and you know we can all just bobby up right now it just fat boys at in working with these and I have used them creatively. Fli You have if you if you give yourself the leeway to like pick through five of them until you find one that better or worse. It's worse because sitting in working with always for steps. It really requires that you that you surrender and surrender to to what this is and what you what you pull out of always first steps is going to govern your choice because you're looking for. I mean to sit in and pick cards until so you find one that works for you. You're not surrendering your executive function and the art I like has surprise and mystery guests and this guarantees some kind of level of unpredictability right art with surprise and mystery right and you're going to find you're going to work in it with your hands in a different way if you set out to to pursue always first steps in the process and particularly if you pull that out in the middle of a recording session. Where do you get to first steps. You know what if you accidentally we're doing this new you kept turning over cards and it said things like nine eleven or a baby with leprosy and then you're like oh uh-huh cards against humanity yeah you can't require a record laws although you probably could it would be insane clown posse record or something. I'm sure there are people out there that are that are doing that right now or if they weren't. They're gonNA do it tomorrow. My first collection of oblique strategies strategies was given to me as a gift and a friend of Mine and artist by the name of Christian Cosmos sat at a typewriter and typed oblique strategy type to them out on three by five cards with her little vintage each typewriter and made this set for me as an art project in its own right where she using some canonical list or Rashid just picking tips that worked for her so so as we you know as I said the number of oblique strategies went from one hundred thirteen to one hundred twenty three in nineteen seventy nine and then precipitously dropped to one hundred oblique strategies in nineteen ninety six the software designer Peter Norton whom you might know hasn't Norton Antivirus Antivirus Guy who was a pacific northwestern. He's from Aberdeen. I didn't know they went to read and he was kind he worked for Boeing and was sort of just a general problem solving engineering type and bought one of the first IBM PC's and early on realized that I mean he accidentally deleted a file as we all have done thousand times but rather other than tears hair out he said about to write a program where he was able to retrieve the deleted file and that program became popular you know he traded among among other. PC programmers of the early eighties and he developed a software company that that that had a whole series of mm-hmm of different products and became an early tech or not early but like a like mid period tech millionaire and sold his his sold his company to what system dine. Let's just say it was Info Tech Hang on on. Let's see who it actually is not grow yeah. It's a info dire tech. It was Compu- Abuse Do Corp.. It's by a Simon Tech are symon tech which is a company that makes makes utilities today symon text so he became a millionaire but at a at a certain point was you know had been influenced by oblique strategies or was aware of it and he asked me knows permission to make an addition of them for his friends and in nineteen ninety six he made a Christmas present addition that had little little art attached to it and he made four thousand copies by more than there's ever been on earth. He's got a lot of friends and so the the arrival of these in nineteen ninety six actually post dates my friend Kristen Kristen making this set for me. Oh you had it before. Peter Norton was right so at this point there were only I think a couple bowl of thousand of them in existence but within the arts community they were widely known and they had been the the the strategies themselves had been disseminated enough that Kristin was able to get it you know a list of them but she was unable to get her hands on a set because they you know they were a a very expensive very prized and and I assume they're collectible now but presumably making a deck of cards is not the hard part no but but you couldn't I mean I mean they were. They were copyright protected. You couldn't just make a black box full of Enos cards. They will catch you. I mean you could sell them well. Kristen did right she sat and and it was part of I think her process to almost a meditative process put in a three by five card right an oblique strategy like for instance remove ambiguities and convert to specifics. I bet there's a card in there are with the exact opposite advice the Wilshire there is I was reading a story about how when Boeing we're working on. I guess it's Heroes The instrumental tracks sense of doubt it it kind of has an oddly dramatic through line at a bunch of surprising things and they had each drew on a different card and card said make everything as similar as possible and Bowie's Said said emphasized differences so they both had to had they had to compose this track aligned with competing oblique strategies and kind of the oddness of that instrumental is what results well and I think I think that is that's exactly how they have appeared in my the music over time right you. You're given a problem to solve an often. It is against what everyone in the room actually wants to do that's you are you do not want to convert specifics to generalities at the point at which you're like stymied you once you want some brecon solid advice but just tell me whether we should put keychains here or not now kristen. I think became aware of oblique strategies because they appear as a plot point in the movie slackers either Richard Licht Letterman Yeah slackers for the nineteen ninety sort of generation X. cult film slacker. It's we're going to get worse. slacker not slackers it's like. I think it's first movie slackers. slackers is what we call one another slackers the film but a character in the movie walks around sort of handing out oblique strategies card. I remember this. I didn't know what they were yeah and and one of the cards and kind of the most famous one was not actually one of the canonical oblique strategies not not no original it wasn't no it said withdrawing in discussed is not the same thing as ap oh this is becomes an rem emmerich rats right so rem then takes them says Richard Said Richardson Richard Meeting Richard Linklater Richardson withdrawing so does that mean Michael Stipe did not know it was an oblique strategy because he credits Richard Linklater with it well. He credits him because he because it's not it's. It's not a real car. It's a fake oblique strategy and what I found when Kristen made my set was she made her own there. I have most one hundred and thirteenth some of them are interpolations by her yeah and and it's incredibly seductive to do and I've sat in made did oblique strategies. The idea of you PRODUC- Adecco has some of hers and then some of your own somebody else produces one that has the ideas of years they liked plus their own right mutating and tenderloin out there really beautiful and they're really they're. They're not easy to make because they have to. They have to to reverberate because they are inspiring lateral thinking you know they are in the Peter Schmidt wrote a book called the thoughts behind the thoughts. They're trying to they're trying to convey and conjure something other worldly or at or at least to break your pattern and so you can't just write down you know take a walk more. Go generates electricity or whatever like they have to. They have to have an element of bafflement. Have you thought what do you think about lateral thinking thinking as it applies to non artistic fields you know it's important for engineers coming up with novel solutions as well or I mean I guess comedy is Ann Dr. But I'm thinking about Improv people not taking the first idea but waiting for something weird or to occur to them right. It's a little bit yes and yeah. I think there's hardly any realm of that requires. An engineering of course requires a lot of creative thinking sure like I know you put down computer programmers but should a good programmer have stack of oblique strategies one. They are trying to figure out the best way to to shirt liver a product. I mean absolutely should I yeah. I'd disparage computer programmers because it is hilarious for me to do not because I actually don't think that they do want work because they had asthma and can't catch up. That's right you can outrun them. I do it mostly because they are. They are heralded as the prince and Princess Rise of our Contemporary Society and I think that they need to be taken down a pain because they are they are EGOMANIAC but oblique strategies remain of feature in in music production coldplay has credited them and and and other musicians will start off in and have oblique strategies as a component of their process. I continue I. It's easy to forget that you have them. It's it's it's easy to forget that they are an oracle right someone that you can consult outside side of your when you're making an artistic work particularly one that's collaborative it's very seldom democratic and and it and it's often of very small group of like minded people and and here you have a You have some way to to connect with the with the other. It's weirdly easy to just kind of stick with the process that you always do. You know it's it's. I don't know if it's because it's reassuring or you know. Even if it's not working for you it's just so seductive to stay in that step at a time iterative the process and yeah what you need to step outside it yeah an in music making. I mean it's a big part of the process to try and make take all your songs. If you're making an album to make those songs feel like part of a whole like you suggest to producer hey let's record the drums for every every song in a different location. The producers going to push back because it will sound to the listener like an alien combination of like a playlist playlist like as like a combination of songs that don't belong together and so in almost every recording session you go in and record the drums all for for all of us for all the songs and then you begin to add interesting other elements but but but it's easy. I think to make an entire record where you never wants wants deviate from today's Guitar Day. Let's go record architectures. I mean it's the it's the thing about music doesn't interest me is that I think the song sounds too much like all the songs on the last record and all the songs on the record before that and you'll hear it in modern pop music. There's never a point where the producer doesn't say okay okay. Let's bring a vote coder in here. Let's bring auto tune in and we'll make the song sound like it's got auto to non it. No one ever says let's pull out an oblique strategies adages card and you know they hardly ever say put. Auto Auto Strategies Scooter Braun as the next the next Justin bieber records gonNA sound so much better that would be my strategy and that includes oblique strategies entry eight five six dot. Ro One two zero two certificate number two six three eight in the omnibus listeners simple subtraction subtraction simple subtracts. I'm not going to give I'm not gonNA give your social handles. Just mine go. The following is both stratagem. Don't forget to follow the Omni at the omnibus project on also media. I am at Ken Jennings on twitter and have nothing else to say. I I have a part of this too. I can add myself let me see analyzes his Co.. Analyzed color changes in grading. That's going to be a little tricky and giving an email address but who knows what color changes me. It's true it could be vocal color. Don't forget to send us the electric mail. If that's available in your era at the project at mail dot com interesting that Gregorian being in chant is where you go. Is there a card for Gregorian chant. That would explain a lot of low. I think let's see what my owed bleak. Strategy is imagined the piece set set of disconnected events okay so I'll read email addresses and you've gotten crash your car and it's up to the future rolling Congress on facebook under a group of the same name there are like minded people on Reddit as well if you'd like to send as an unrelated event and if you would like to write us a letter or send US strategy your own please do so out on cards and send them to Po box five seven four four shoreline Washington nine eight one five if you put in a self addressed stamped envelope John Wadden oblique strategy of his own and send it back to you. Do we need holes. That's that's the next one I got do. Do we need to talk about the Patriots John. Yeah I think I think we need holes. Let's put a hole right here of in my pocket. I thought Oh you like space but you meant a yellow submarine. We you can contribute to the John has a hole in his pocket that needs funding for the omnibus. If you would like to contribute to become part of the project and the process at this time capsule checkout patriots dot com slash omnibus project and and be generous please. Let's see here my next oblique strategy for completing. This altro is today tonight. Lose my oblique strategies. Oh curses this can still be one of the holes find. We've added another whole here while you dig yourself out of trying to find the right. Url Well Let's see well so oblique. Strategies are available for sale. Now you can buy a box of them. They've been licensed by E-e-e-e-no and are now imprint imprint and the number of them available has exploded. I'm probably going to actually buy us out. I think yeah from from from just a few thousand two now an infinite number but also they're available online at the oblique strategies you can google it and find it will oblique strategy generators or if you're in the future just dig through the wreckage to generate a complete set you can do with magic gathering or po came onto mine says the most important thing is the thing most easily forgotten that would be read at reference. I already did that future earnings from our vantage point in your distant past we have no idea how long our civilization survived but we hope and pray that the catastrophe we fear may never come give the game away. This whole thing is just an excuse for me and Ken to we're not actually being time cops yeah. This is just a biweekly podcast. PODCASTS are doing for fun and Financial Gain Yeah Wow I. I think we are going to do that but the cards told us to. It said right there. If the worst comes soon this recording all recordings may have been our final word the whole the holes leaving the inconsistency principle uh-huh providence allow. We'll be back with another on the.