29 April, 2020 Episode 771 How to Read Tree Rings
This is to us this week in science episode number. Seven hundred seventy one recorded on Wednesday April twenty ninth twenty twenty how to read tree rings. I'm Dr Kiki and tonight. We will fill your head with neanderthals spider combs and underwater bones. But first thanks to the burroughs wellcome fund and our patriots sponsors for their generous support of twists. You can become a part of the Patriot community at Patriotair Dot com slash this weekend science. This glamour disclaimer disclaimer. There is a bee shortage in America. When a bee sting somebody it Stinger falls off and the B. is so why not glue them back on so the B doesn't they then we would have plenty of again when a child comes up with a solution to a problem. It's adorable no matter how silly that solution may be. We can encourage that child to keep coming up with more creative ideas and is a form of curiosity in a sign of self motivated learning when the leader of Nation with a million people afflicted by respiratory virus with over sixty thousand dead already believes that after months of access to doctors researchers and experts and disease control this suggests that maybe injecting disinfectants into lungs or massively irritating. People with ultraviolet white on the inside could help. It is not adorable. It shows a lack of curiosity in the basics of how human body works let alone anything. He could have learned by listening to and asking questions of the experts at his disposal. This is a form of narcissistic. Ignorance signed an incompetent idiot with less than a high school. Biology students understanding of the human body. Actually less than a junior high school students understanding of biology and I would even probably say there's elementary students who would have told you that's a bad idea. Thankfully it is not actually in control of our country's research and research continues to rely on scientific method. There is a treatment at the end of the tunnel and that treatment is here on this week in science. Coming up next Got Kind of Mine Gig. I WANNA learn everything up with new. Discover every day. There's only one place the knowledge science to Yuki and Blair and good science to you to Justin and Blair and everyone out there. Welcome to another episode of this week in science. We are back to discuss all this science that we see fit to put in the show tonight and there is a lot of it as you know. Science never sleeps at just keeps on churning through the world of questions curiosity and then onto uncovering discovering and knowledge all right I have stories about some underwater bones bunch of covert up a covert nineteen updates because there is a bunch of science that came out in the last week and a core. Conundrum is Justin. What did you bring? I've got matriarchal. Neanderthals question mark enter teenage giants. Who big sharp teeth and swimming with the dinosaurs very nice. I would not swim with the dinosaurs. I don't want to swim fishing. Roughly nine now all right. What's in the Animal Corner? I have sick bees. I have lighter. Combs and I have shrew spines so Justin's disclaimer was apropos to the. I try to take a little of both where youtube or bringing and combine them into the disclaimer. That very well done okay. Let's jump into the show but I I need to remind you that if you are not subscribed all the places that you can subscribe to this week in science you might be missing this week in science though you can subscribe on Youtube and Facebook. And all the places that podcasts are found you can also find us at our website twists. T. W. I S. Dot. Org Twist Dot Org. You can look for this week in science all those places and hopefully you will find us and be able to subscribe and you will find us weekly because this is what we do every week and you can giggle with me every week when she says before we jump we're going to jump into the science but first like it nice. I had never put that together before we will have to myself from laughing. I would love to introduce our guest rate now. Dr Valerie. True is a Denver climatologist Paleo climatologist. Who Uses the study of tree rings to describe past climates and give us insight into now and the future? G is an associate professor in the laboratory of Tree Ring Research at the University of Arizona and has recently published a book called Tree Story which is published by Johns Hopkins University Press. Welcome to the show. Dr Troy thank you so much for. Having Week Aka very excited you're welcome. I'm thrilled to have you here. I mean I I gotta look at the Galley of Your Book. A couple of months back and it just was it. It is not was is very well written and personable and it gets to the idea of why you study tree rings but can you explain to us here and now how you got interested in studying tree rings in the first place. Yeah I get asked the question a lot as you can imagine. Not many people dream of being committed dendrochronology. When they grow up I had never heard of tree rings until I was looking or a the topic for my master seizes and I write my masters in environmental engineering and I was very much idealists in my early twenty so I wanted to make the world a better place in my idea of doing that back then was to go to Africa and do research there and so I was looking for a masters project in Africa. The only project that was available at my university was to do tree analysis in Africa. So I'd never heard of tree-ring analysis but I figured if that gets to Africa Dunlop's why not ulcer ensuring it out. So I went to Tanzania. I collected some jeering cookies as we call them came back. And that's started looking at the cookies Under the microscope. And that's when I really got hooked on Cherry Alice's so beautiful to look at would under a microscope it's It really opened a whole new world for me and yeah. I've never done anything else. After my masters I went on to do. Pd just kept doing Analysis through so much so many angles to so many scientific questions to answer. Retreating sits to very exciting field of science. Remember coming across tree rings I think for you know one of those things in high school biology or it was a you know early undergraduate and it was described. That tree rings are like a map of the trees. History that you can you can understand things about the trees by looking at their rings and I remember looking at A little a a stump of wood and trying to count the tree rings that were there and it's hard and I would love to know how you actually go about doing the work that you do. How do you find out what's in? How do I mean it from the outside? It's like tea leaf reading and put it appears. But you're you're doing actual science with it. They'll be great to learn how you do that. The yeah so the first thing I should mention is that the vast majority of during studies. We don't need to cut down trees so we have a hollow horror with which we'd take sample from the tree. That extracted submit lake a biopsy or like drawing blood from person but then from a tree. So we don't kill the trees. The process doesn't hurt or harm to tree cider. And so then we go into the field. We collect the samples from back to the lab like a stack of maybe a hundred or two hundred depending on how many people are carrying those trees The first thing you can do is sand so that you can look at it under a microscope. because Do as you mentioned that it's sometimes it's hard to see the reins and it's much easier to seat him of the wood ascended and it's easier to see them through microscope as well and then it depends a little bit on what you're at aim of your study is so. I'm Denver climatologist. I my aim for studying. Cheering is to look at climate of the past. But there's a very big application of cheering analysis in archaeology. For instance where they look at the patterns in their rings of archaeological would end. That allows archaeologists to date win building skill. Also for instance one can art. Historians use it to date paintings or musical instruments and so forth. You look at the pattern of wide narrow rings through a microscope and trees. Dat grow in the same area at the same period of time we'll show similar patterns of wide narrow rings under stems. So it's it's a bit like a bar code on a Into supermarket or like Morse code where we have a sequence of wide and narrow rings wide wide narrow narrow wide narrow wide wide and so forth trees grow in the same area will all have that same barcode because a lot of it a lot of why a tree grows wandering in certain year or narrowing it bring in another year is because of the climate under which rose so island in. Tucson. The trees in Tucson daylight water. You know it's always warm enough in in Tucson. It's not that it gets too cold for trees to grow up at. It does get to drive for trees to grow when so when it's very dry year the trees don't like it and they form a narrow ring on the other hand. When is very wet year? They like it and they're happy under. GonNa grow fat ring and so the trees in Tucson are all GonNa grow a narrow rain in the same year when it's dry year and they're all GonNa grow wide ring in a wetter year. So you can match the patterns of trees that grow in the same for same region by by looking at patterns. Caserta turned sang and that principle also allows you to them look at climate by looking at whether you know just saying fifteen eighty was a was a wider or narrower and you can tell something about climate in. Tucson was like fifty eighty by looking at whether it was a wider ring in that. And how does this fossilized mentioned is a they can do this. Back into a fossil records to sub fossil records. Yes some so we can go back. Were not limited to living trees. We can do it on. Dead Wood from trees died. Some trees you know have died a thousand years ago under stems are still on the landscape we can do it in would from buildings would from from musical instruments as I mentioned and then in what we call sub fossil. Which means would that has been preserved in P. Boggs or in riverbeds ordered settlements where it was covered by by water and it was kept in in in circumstances without oxygen Aerobic Circumstances Indus- how it was preserved over time and so using wood from peat bogs the longest continues tearing chronology that. We have up until now. It's from In Germany from oaks and pine trees in Germany it goes back more than twelve thousand years so we have a record that goes back more than twelve thousand years and we have a rain for every one of those of those years continuously now is. We're really talking about fossils. Voters are petrified wood for instance stats like millions of years old. That's a whole other category. Were you know we're at twelve? Thousand Years Petrified Wood was millions of years old so we haven't we haven't crossed. Bridgier? I'm wondering if they're in the petrified category Even the the more recent would that you're looking at are there chemical signatures that you observe as well as just the size of the rings. Yes so really really good question. There's a whole line of research. That looks at isotopes. In intriguing so carbon and oxygen primarily isotopes and that allows us to study physiology physiology over time but also it's also used to look at the climate on in the past and one of the things that we do in in in my lab is looking not just at the window of the ring in each year but also looking at how would is each year. And I can talk about trainings. A lot and come back to your chemistry question. A lot of people will ask me like So during dating these radiocarbon dating to date your cheering. 's and actually the other way around so so Tree rings have been used at twelve thousand year. Long record is used to calibrate radiocarbon curve because they can do a C. For Teen Measurement Radio Carbon Measurement of every rain over that twelve thousand year period and so no for each year the atmospheric radio urban love to we. Have I mean you? You mentioned in in Europe in Germany. That there are these oaks but do we have that kind of record around the world Because last week we were on the show. Justin brought a story about agriculture in the Amazon. And it would just be. I'm just wondering what kind of a global record. We have going back in through history. Yeah it it. It varies quite a lot. So the oldest living trees by far are here in North America on so the oldest living trees globally or going pines grow on the border between California Nevada and the White Mountains and the trees lived to be five thousand years old. And so you can add to that to bring that chronology back Dr Analogies Now. Eight thousand nine thousand years long after trying to GOYA'S IN IN CALIFORNIA. They're were three thousand years old in South America or some really old trees as well but that twelve thousand year record from Europe. It's quite unique that length. We we don't get everywhere around the world so it'd be amazing to have that kind of continuous record going back that far but I imagine it's very hard to find those resources. How do you how do you? I mean the peat bogs are a very unique situation that would preserve would in that way Would there be any other situation but the What are the tar? Yeah the train. Lots of rabbits yes. That would be very cool very cool and thought about that. Well I mean one of the things I learned from this poke and one that I I didn't know beforehand and I must say like I'm A. I'm a professor of dendrochronology. I teach Mike title official is associate professor of Dendrochronology. I teach a class and under -nology but there's so much I didn't know before writing this book about my view but one of the. Yeah it's really a great way to learn a lot. One of the things I found very fascinating is to go back to the petrified wood that you were talking burt dozen. They found petrified wood in Antarctica. So you know to earn twenty million years ago. Antarctica was a marine first base. Or at least a temporary temperate forest and so they can even though you cannot link to ring in that in that petrified wood which years and the impact two hundred minutes really. But you can but you can still see the senior you can see the rings and so you can count on seeing an idea of how old the trees were that were growing in that force and They also figured that because there are rings into streets there must have been seasonality because otherwise season Alabama climate otherwise. You don't get rings. You need to have a winter on the summer. So that means that the configuration of the Earth vs son must've been so that seasonality was possible in Antarctica. Two hundred million years so there's a lot a lot to learn that I find very You mentioned the Sierra Nevada's and being here on the West Coast and I came from California Blair and just in our Californians as well The droughts that we've been experiencing our You know have been reported to be historic in scope. And you've done work on that. Can you talk a bit about About your work looking at Oak Trees in the valley. I've met that's case because actually I've always had the opposite Kiki so this is fantastic. I've heard that we got here on a wet spell and that this is normal so yeah now you can get enlightened. Yes Oh my research group an eye. We use tree rings from the Blue Oaks into Central Valley of California which out of olive trees world that I've ever worked with the blue oaks or the ones that are most sensitive to how much rainfall. So whenever it's dry year are gonNA show a super narrowing and every wet years gonNA show super wiring. So they're very very good reporters of dry and wet Years in California over a pastor about five hundred to five hundred years old so the blue ox come out of the Central Valley and in Twenty fifteen when California was in a in a very big drought so the twin in the midst of twenty twelve. Twenty sixteen drought on April first. The the SNOWPACK number scheme out for the Sierra Nevada in California so with California being a Mediterranean climate. As as you all know the amount of snowed up falls in winters really important. Because you're not gonNA get any summer rainfall so April first is date when they announced what the snowpack at been like that winner because at that point by April first not expecting much more snow anymore but it also hasn't really started melting yet so it's a good good point in time to To look at the SNOWPACK and so two thousand fifteen April first Snowpack numbers came out. It was dismal. It was horrible so little snow or amidst of a very deep drought so to the snowpack number came out all over the news. It was like this. Twenty sixteen is the lowest snow back. It has been over the last eight years since we started measuring snowpack at Cernavoda and so when I Post Oxen. I heard that news. We're like you know what we can do. Better not weaken user tree rings to put that Twenty Sixteen snowpack not just in an eighty year context but in a five hundred year so we use those blue oaks from the Central Valley that was talking about to reconstruct this year bound. Snowpack OVER FIVE HUNDRED YEARS. Lo and behold twenty. Two thousand eighteen was the lowest snowpack. It had been over five hundred years so that I was one of those moments world. Like you realize like this really important what we found here and it's exciting as a scientist to see it's always exciting to find something that we didn't know for But then you realize this is not good news really. So it's always it's a bit. Yes Double Thou- Justin. I was wrong other thing I heard was listening. Somebody called me when I was a kid was wrong in your book. You also talk about fires in the West and how you look at fire scars on trees. I I think that's really interesting. Can you talk a little bit about what you learn there? Yeah I really like that. Line of research law so we can also look at fire history using tree so again this is were guy also did into Sierra Nevada in California but is being donald over to set west by by colleagues of mine and a Pacific northwest as well so wanna fire hits forests and when it's not a destructive fire on but like a low intensity or a ground fire it will not kill the trees Harmed trees can damage decrease and so a fire can leave a scar in the trees in. This is what you're seeing here on. Disfigure can leave a scar under trees and then one a few years later. Let's say five or ten years later. Another fire comes through the same forest. That space on the tree on stem treed was hit by fire before it was damaged by fire before. It's going to be very sensitive so when another fire comes that saying wound is GonNa be hit again on it's GonNa create another fire scarred and so what you see here. It's former sample in California Nassir Nevada. There's all of these labels all of these scars that are label. So you can. Distri was hit by three four five six seven eight nine ten consecutive fires and so by using cheering dating. You can date the year when those fires happen. And it's very it's a very precise science you can even In many cases not always but you can even tell what time of year the fire happened by looking at the position of scar with into ring. If it's in the beginning of the ring it's it was a spring fire Towards the end of Iranian was a fired happening to fall nor really liked this figure in particular because he can tell. This street was hit by a fire. Roughly every ten years in the first scar somewhere in the sixteen hundreds Lasker is I wanNA say maybe eighteen eighty five or eighteen ninety an in-between every ten to twenty years. There's a there's a fire at a hit Sarah Navarro Cernavoda forests. But then you can tell that the the most recent scar was eighteen ninety whereas Distri the sample was stake in nineteen ninety s and in the entire twentieth century. There is no scars at all so up until the twentieth century again. You get a fire every ten years or so and then all of a sudden you get a century of no fired That we call the smokey bear effect. Because that's what happened. That's when you know. Europeans showed up ninety five that it was established the first service and back in those days they thought that forest fires were bad Something that we needed to prevent to preserve or forested. They didn't know what we know. Now that actually forest fire is a is a natural part of the forest ecosystem so as a result we've been been so effective so efficient in putting out fires It's I mean. I like the two thousand fire scars. Sorry discourage samples in the Sierra Nevada. Maybe ten of them have a fire scar in twentieth century to like almost no fire scars to be found in the twentieth century at all and this is again not just in California. This is over the whole American West but you can imagine that if the natural the way the fire ships used to be was frequent fires every five to ten fifteen years those were round fires right so they the the sample is is very good evidence of that they they might hurt a tree Kill the tree is otherwise. It wouldn't would no longer peter so every five. I'm recycle of Like shrubbery or some kind of Baldwin material that sort of builds up and then fire through that out and it gets to start over again but if we're preventing that first fire from happening. We're building a bigger tinderbox. Exactly exactly of this huge build up a fuel that's supposed to be burned off every five to ten years the now is no longer burned off and so when now a fire happens. You're no longer get these innocent ground fires but you get these massive huge fires that do kill trees in that. Get under super very very difficult to control. So that's in that combined you know this is not happening in. Its accused him. This is happening while temperatures are rising wild California so dry so it's really a perfect storm for massive destruction forest fires a living in the west. It A. we've been seeing a lot of those recently. Which is really unfortunate. The landscape of the West is changing as a result. But perhaps it'll lead eventually back to more regular natural pattern of these these smaller fires. Unfortunately we've allowed stuff to build up too long Russell Crowe. It should be on the cycle. There's another issue though. I mean at least in California I know we have lots of invasive plants as well that have moved in this exact same time that there's a lack of forest fires some of them including Eucalyptus which released knock Noxious gas when they're birds. So I think there's I I think there's other weird factors besides just a lack of forest fires in the past hundred years that could have a pretty big impact on our on our wild plants and animals some farms that if they had fired they'll have a very calming effect very tough but maybe were ninety year super fire. Just like if if we've done agree with that and I like this. That electors idea at all Valerie of four from your book you've also taken the the storytelling perspective of moving through space and time and human history with with tree rings which I think is just a wonderful way to to get people to understand tree rings how did you. How did you come to find these stories in your book? The idea to to to write a book through storytelling came intuitive. Or just how it ended up being. But but there are. There are such Stories intriguing researcher absolutely right and actually this book came to be. Because I was on Sabbatical I was actually approached by an editor from Johns Hopkins University. Press asking if I wanted to write a book by trainings abroad. Audience Book About Tree Rings and my first reaction was like that. Of course that already existed such a tangible science as a you started show Kiki with saying like Oh when I was nice school you know we learned about truing most people at least in endemic regions not basic idea that every ring in a tree represents one year in that trees live in. You can extract information out of that. But few people know all stories all of the science that comes out of that fairly straightforward idea and so my first reaction was like such a book already exists for sure and then. I thought well I actually don't know of any vokes broad audience books about under -nology so I agreed to to to do that to write a book and then it just. There's so many good stories. There's it's sign is really said sat at the nexus of what we've already discussed right. We can study climate using dendrochronology. We can study wildfires ecology using dendrochronology. We can study human history. Art History and archaeology all using the same technique. What's your what's your favorite story. I WANNA say my favorite story to one. That is the one of Some colleagues of mine who found Ghost for a Cinder Pacific northwest in the cascade region. Unsew ghost birds are fours that were trees were killed at some point in diamond passed under still standing now and so they tree-ring data on those. There's a there's like three or four of those goes force and they found out that they all of the trees died in the exact same year so they all died in seventeen hundred And even more. So they figured out that because trees hilty. It wasn't wasn't as if they're they're rings were on getting narrower narrower before the I they were healthy open to the point that they died in seventeen hundred and so they they realize that something must have been up by Collaborating Jimmer pholigistic figured out that there must have been a really big earthquake in winter of seventeen hundred that caused subduction and a cost area. Where does for where the streets were growing to be flooded by seawater because because of subduction and so two trees were killed in seawater so that I says already very cool thing to to figure out but it gets better because On the other side of the Pacific Ocean in Japan there are historians who study documentary. Data documents from Japanese history and they had discovered that there was a big Su- Nami in Japan on January. Twenty six seventy years. Seventeen hundred Because there was there was documents all over the place of shipwrecks agricultural lands that were destroyed of towns along the Japanese coast at were destroyed or but they called it to Nami the orphan tsunami because there was a lot of evidence of that to Nami at happening. Seventeen hundred but there was no evidence of what might have caused Or no documents about cause of that to Nami. So there was no no one documented. An earthquake or anything of the when are Japanese historian when a Japanese historian? Started talking to the Dendrochronology from the Pacific northwest with one on one together realized there was a very big earthquake in winter of seventeen hundred in the Pacific northwest and there was a very big Nami on the other side of the Pacific Ocean in winter of seventeen hundred and so it was that earthquake that goes for had been killed by the cost was so big that it costs nominee on the other side of that kind of collaboration between historians and dendrochronology fists and just putting puzzle pieces together at Sperry. Very cool science. Yeah Yeah and I mean this is also. It's also relevant because we haven't had earthquakes of that magnitude in the Pacific northwest's since European varieties there so we have no record. We didn't earthquakes. Get that big in the Pacific Northwest. So now we have gone in. There were a couple of big ones burning area. Maybe not that big yet but they would cause this. I say this because that's where I'm Kinda I'm just gonNa sit here and smile and go through all of my disaster. My Disaster Preparedness Kit. Because we're in the middle of covert okay. I'm eating all my earthquake kit chocolate right now within within the book you also talk about various places that you've traveled To do your work. You mentioned Africa at the beginning of the show for your master's work. What other places Can you tell us about what were some of the most exciting Exciting places that you've gotten to visit or trees So yeah I wanted to does neon Zombie be a early on in in my career The Sierra Nevada was gorgeous in in California. You know I was I grew up in Belgium Belgian originally and so I did all of my education in Belgium Including MY PhD. That moved to the US for a post. Doc and so. I don't know anyone of you as been in Belgium. But it's very densely populated country when no concept of hardly of nature leave alone of wilderness. And so going straight out of Belgium. I was dropped in this current a bother to start doing field work on my own. And so it was really. It was very very good introduction to the idea of wilderness and also to just you know no wing you know as a number of mental scientist so much more. It's very exciting to the western. Us There's a lot to do Some of my favorite feel where was was in Greece So we been degrees quite a few times actually open a mountains in Greece has. There's very old trees there And we filmed the old St in Europe Which is about a little over thousand years old on that. Feel on one of those field trips angry. So you know Greece's very nice you. The weather's nice like a mountain for a few hours. You spend the day according trees. I mean the advantage of being dendrochronology star field work. Is You hike up a mountain and you spend the whole day to Ola Strasser. Often flying on the top mountains found on top of mind. So you spend a day in which is origins views and is beautiful for us and then you hike down at the end of the day and you're in Greece so you get really good food and the people are super friendly and the same thing the next day so that I'm sore ears here now young. This sounds like if you like being in nature like these. This is where you're going to take you. That's amazing perfect. Wonderful one of our listeners is asking. Are there some tree species that are better timekeepers than others? Does a really good question. Yeah so on. Most of the tree-ring chronologies that exists. So so we are a very open community and we have a database publicly available of deterring chronologies that we have developed has about four thousand locations across the earth in the vast majority of those earth from conifers so needle leaf trees forum clear rings than Broadleaf trees generally speaking. There's a few exceptions would abroad. Leafs Oaks very nice rings but otherwise Conifers Win. Seder better timekeepers but we are it they make it easier for us to read their rings So because of the climate the Thuram aspect. Yeah so does one aspect where you know if you if you wanNA reconstruct climate The Best Places Gore eiter at higher elevations are highlighted Tude. Worst coal or places where it's dry right and so in the western. Us most most razor conifers. Right on same. If you go to Alaska Canada Siberia's mostly conifers. So that's one reason. The other reason is that it's quite simply would the would anatomy of conifers. Needle leave trees is much simpler. The only have one kind of sell the day. Just repeat over and over there. There came much earlier in evolution Simpler kind of tree Broadleaf trees there would gorgeous. It's beautiful because it has all kinds of patterns in it. It has different cells have different functions but it makes for a more difficult ring to read typically. Yeah so. Has Anyone done a Like a transept survey from the far north down through North America Central America South America. To to look yes data. Good question I think we are are definitely truing Cheering chronologies from Alaska Canada. The boreal forests the rockies obviously Mexico. It gets trickier once you get to the Amazon. The tropics are difficult so it's always raining in some parts it. It's always raining. It's always warm enough so you don't really get that period of the year when it's bad for the trees and they stopped rowing That and to actually going back to what you just said Justin Or what I just explained. The trimmings are clearer in conifers versus broadleaf trees and tropics. It's almost exclusively broadleaf trees there's almost no conifers. To found so combination were more difficult woods anatomy with more difficult climate. It's not impossible. There's actually a law dirt quite a lot of truing chronologies from the tropics but it's it's slimmer pickings than than any older dryer beaches. I'm curious since trees have been here for a lot longer than we have. If you could kind of go way far into the future and look at tree rings what do you. What do you think the ANTHR- proceed will look like in tree rings because in some places we're having fires in some places there's there's a lot extra carbon dioxide that could impact growth? Do think there's going to be some sort of universal sign of what we've done to nature you know i. I have a story for everything. But one of my colleagues actually sampled what he called the loneliest. Straight into world It's it's a tree was planted in the early nineteen hundred on very small island somewhere Between Tasmania and the Antarctic on the Antarctic. So it's a single tree on an island that is you know why one hundred miles remove from anywhere else. So he calls it the loneliest stream to world and he he sampled the Took a tree-ring sample from the tree. And he found the radiocarbon spike that happened with the nuclear bomb test in nineteen sixty three the the nuclear bomb just over the early sixties are often considered start of answer opposite because they they leave remarks that is not go away and so by Sorry Saga News. The phrasing of the phrasing the way they left a mark. That's not going away. I'm just imagining my child. When he was a toddler writing on the wall with Unwatchable ends with a sharpie marker. Something really good really good analogy actually. So anyway. He wound up Margaret into lowly stree- of the world. And so he's like even the even. The most remote tree has recorded that she started throbs as to. I mean you know what I think. It's actually a great question as to what you think. That's maybe another book what the future will be. Light CAN TREE-RING FOR INSTANCE. You're talking about the The increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere increases plan grow. We don't see that in a trimmings at all nowhere I'm not or earn. That is an active field of research and whereas we see greening up in in satellite images and in other metrics plus stars and so forth in actual. The Qurban is being put down into would which is what we look at with treatments. We don't see that parliament for lies ation effect at all which is interesting. It's also really important because we're looking at a carbon markets right now with forests as a major part of how the carbon markets out how it all works the whole concept of effort station of you know the carbon markets. We're GONNA plant trees to solve this. Climate Change. Problem is very complex You know we don't know what trees you do. Plant fast growing trees that capture carbon fast but data live long. So if you WANNA keep that carbon for a long time you gotta plant slow growing trees but then they go very slow to captured very slow. And then you gotta protect that because you only need one forest fire for everything. Phuc to go back up in the air do plant trees in little patches in the city. Are you go for giant Plantations Siberian? Kind of species. You Plan on how far you plant. I mean it's there's a lot of a lot of a lot of unknowns that are worth studying and that is it is a very active field of research so people are studying at but it's not a simplest less salt planet. Tremendous problem will solve so nothing is ever as simple as we'd like it to be unfortunately justin. Did you have one more question? Oh I think it was something about Maybe the trees do not taking up increased. Carbons 'cause they can also survive in a much lower carbon environment than the one that we have now So they're not. It's not that just because there's more Ability they're already using as much as they need and they can probably survive with a lot less carbon in the atmosphere adding evolved through many many cycles of our of our environment years. Not Everything wants more. It's just a very human thing. There's more resources available. We'll use more. That's just how we are and well. Yeah Yeah No. That's a really good point. And also if they use more carbon it's not they don't they don't only need carbon too growed and eat nitrogen. They need water. You know they if they want to grow more with more carbon. They're also going to be using more water. So it's you know there's other limiting factors and there was some paper that was I wanNA say was the state of Montana which doesn't seem to fit with this or maybe it was a suggestion for the state of Montana but there was a climate report that was Arguing about if your if a if like say with the recent fires in California you lost to this of this Shigie plant. What was there before or should you be looking at planting something? That's going to be more suited to that in the forty year from now. Climate is an whole other aspect of. What do you plant where That that does make it that the thing very complicated definitely keeps me increase out if you're doing it right later but if we're planting trees now that at least it can't hurt right final Final question as we sit here some of us in our wood-frame houses with our wooden dinner tables and maybe chairs sub we have modern materials now so there are many more of those in our homes these days than there used to be. But when you look at objects around your house or even look at the wood-frame houses that you're walking past on the street. Do you see history in front of you. How do you? How does what you do inform how you see the world yeah? I am biased. By my job there was a there was a time when I was doing that kind of first fire. History work in California for for fire history. Work we we mostly sample stumps on from trees were cut. During the mining period during the eighteen fifty to nineteen hundreds. So most of our samples were taking from from stump. So I was when I was doing fieldwork. I was I was mostly looking for stumps. That could be. Fired scurried for years. After whenever I went to the forest for height wouldn't be looking at the trees I'd be looking at stumps around me but also as you mentioned looking just as Ed Wood everywhere. I think this also comes back to the topic. We just discussed of planting trees is good. It's good and using the wood of those trees that you plan to do you. Can you can store it at That carbon that's that's captured in the would you? Can you can keep that out of the atmosphere longer. So if you bill houses would that would that would snow. carbons not going the atmosphere. It's not just living trees that captured craven. It's also would so doing things with that would So so wooden building. That's not doesn't don't just allow us to look at the past for the way forward. Thank you so much for joining us. Today it's been a wonderful of love getting to hear from you about your work and your book Tree Story. The history of the world written in Tree rings and it is available is if it's available now where can people find out more about it and you? You can buy tree story in From Johns Hopkins University press where it was published. I would urge you to nor in normal times to visit your local bookstore. But that's harder now. Got A lot of them are online. So if you want to support your local bookstore and support My research is well. That's a good way but it's also available on Amazon and if you WANNA find out more about me My lab has a website and then Have a website book as well as the true a lab laboratory of Tree Ring Research at the University of Arizona and we will have links on the twist dot org website. Thank you thank you again for joining. Us really appreciated it. Thank you so much for great. You're welcome have a wonderful night. Thank you all right. Everybody we are going to move on to some science news stories so without any further ado stay tuned for a little bit more this week in science. Thank you for listening to this week in science. I really appreciate the fact that you spend some time of your week with us and I hope that you find it valuable that you learn things that it we make you ask more questions or even go. Wait what she anyway. Thank you for being a part of the twists emily. You are the reason that we're able to do what we're able. You are the reason we're able to do what we do. Every week. We try to bring you science news and down to Earth views fun interviews and with your help. We can continue to do this together. We can bring him sane perspective to a world full of misinformation had to twist dot org right now. Click on the Patriot link and choose your level of support be part of supporting twists and bringing sanity and science to more people. We couldn't do this without you. Thank you for your support and we're back. You're listening to this weekend. Science we are back. It's time for us to talk about how. Oh you know the covert update time. We update me. What do we well? Things are not good. I knew that you knew that part of it but there is some really great scientific research going on this week. A couple of studies were published. That are very interesting. One in the Lancet. It's an article that is a controlled randomized trial of Ram Desert Vir. Which is the Ebola antiviral drug produced by Gilead which has been Brought up again and again Throughout the media but has not had many Any of these controlled trials done previously. There were trials just not controlled so there was no placebos. No random mutation. Finally that's been done. The lands at study was very small and did not find a significant effect but did find a trend toward patients who were given Rendez Aveer to recover a little bit more quickly than those with placebo. Then Second Study. This one was An NIH study the national also National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease. Id Produce this randomized controlled study in which again Ramda's Aveer was shown to have a a beneficial effect on patients who were given the drug early in recovering earlier four days on average than individuals. Who did not receive receive from desert? It was a significant enough effect that they stopped the early part of the trial. Because it would've been In F- unethical to continue giving a placebo to they considered it unethical continue giving a placebo to the patients that were not receiving it. Four days could be a game changer. Right it can be a game changer. Anthony Fauci went on record as saying this should become the new standard of care for patients. Though it's not necessarily going a cure all but it is the first It could potentially be a first line defense to get people who are in very serious contact condition to recover a little bit more quickly which would be great additionally we have vaccines that are in development at current counted somewhere around ninety vaccines globally. That are being developed. One vaccine was in the news this last week. The New York Times reported that a vaccine being produced by Oxford University researchers the N. Word Edward Jenner Institute for Vaccine Research That it's that they had Done a trial on six vaccinated Rhesus Macaque monkeys and a similar number of placebo monkeys. And all of the vaccinating vaccinated macaques stayed healthy at least twenty eight days after exposure to SARS covy to And that It caused disease in all of the unvaccinated animals so promising animal study response. We don't know if this will translate to humans secondarily. It hasn't been published. This was a scoop by the New York Times. It has even been disavowed to a certain extent by the Edward Jenner Institute for Vaccine Research. If you go to their website. Their website says basically we haven't published anything yet and if going to publish it don't Don't look at results in the newspaper. Look at all. The results. Here will publish them here on our website. If something happens very very interesting result but they do say that their timeline is that if everything goes to plan human studies and everything that they might have a phase three human results by earliest of all twenty of Fall Twenty twenty one though it can take it could take Actually I'm sorry. By Autumn of twenty twenty however they don't have which would be early that'd great. Yes by saw timber. Twenty twenty But that would be the data back from the earliest phase three efficacy trial. That would be possible But there would be many more trials needed to be done by twenty twenty one to get to actual regulatory approval And so and so what's also interesting? Then I mean there's there's two two things like the treatment drugs that are coming on. That are going to be ron quicker. Because they might save lives but the vaccine. The thing about it is you. Don't WanNa give somebody a vaccine that gives them a false sense of security and sends them out into the world thinking that they are not going to be affected any longer and it ends up not working or working for a small portion of the population that is going to be a long process. The other one is in some cases the only Arrow in last Arrow in the quiver to shoot at this thing. And so that's why these you're going to get you're gonNA see sort of tried on humans the right now it along the along that line stuff. That's very interesting Sandia. Researchers are looking at using crisper to treat Kovic. They have been looking at this. Very targeted are Rene and DNA antiviral treatment for a while for other diseases in response to other corona viruses and various other infectious vectors. Bud The now that covert is such an issue they are specifically starting to look at the Rene a specific are in a sequences that could be targeted by crisper and Crisper treatment could potentially be on the horizon. They're saying they don't know anything. We trying it out. We'll see if it works. A customer treatments is legit. This is GonNa win. It would go in and it would be it. Would Edit your cell. You'll be very short term at it. It would go in and target the The machinery of the cells that would be potentially responding to the viral invader allowing the virus to To make lots of copies of itself and so it would be a process of putting a spanner in those works and keeping it from happening so this is an. I know. This isn't a thing and so I'm going to sound very much like I baby. A president where like somebody should look into like something really dumb but One of our way to make a more knock you ass- version of the virus itself. People could be catching that respiratory facts but the body response with the seventieth letting others environment actually ordered. We just get on like sneeze on each other than everybody gets now. Now you're listening to your leading me into by another study which just came out looking at. It was a study long before cove occurred and it was looking at the common cold and looking at followed cohort of people over a year and did lots of nasal swabs to find out what people were getting infected with and they found that many times there were four corona viruses that gave symptoms similar to the common cold. And when this cohort of people would get these symptoms. They come in. They found that individuals Got Sick repeated times the same corona viruses and Sometimes multiple times and sometimes in very short order within a month of having been sick previously. So what this new study potentially tells us. Is that if things work the same for SARS Kobe to that. Our bodies may not be able to maintain immunity. Which would be a real problem for vaccines? Yeah and I've been thinking about this a lot because there's been a lot of stock put into the whole Antigen tests thing which only works if you can't get reinfected otherwise it does not matter. If you're carrying the Antigen and what was the thing that was like one of the tests that they've been using has ten percent false positive thing percent fifteen percent false negative and that's one of them. It's a rapid. A rapid co Cove intest couva chest. Yeah the Antigen test has a one percent false positive but that the way the math works. It's actually way. Yeah the way that works is if there's there's a thousand make if there's one hundred people and it's one percent the false negative then you're going to get a result of two. You're going to get one. That has it and one doesn't it's really only fifty percent chance that you have if it shows that it's positive. The one I heard was much where fired with ten percent iron. It was ten percent which means that it's actually a magnet. More people would would come up with this thing falls. Even though they didn't have it we still only had a ten percent. You only had a ten percent chance of actually having if you got a positive test. Which would was was that's ridiculous. That's not good but I there was. There was another stories new rapid mess coming online now. There are a lot of tests coming online. This is great because we really need to improve our testing and our the ability to track and trace cases. Because that is the only way that we'll be able to relax a lot of these distancing measures another study looking at social distancing in China and Wuhan and Shanghai bound bed. Oh yes social distancing it works and you need to maintain social distancing measures to maintain a a reduced level of infection within your population closing schools. Also isn't the isn't doesn't work on. Its own to stop infections. But it can reduce the peak by forty to sixty percent and delay the peak from happening so everyone is wondering whether closing schools had been a good idea. According to this Chinese research yes. This was a very good idea And then Maye final article was actually a blog. Post that Someone sent me this week. That was written by a researcher. Jerry Jeremy Faust Jeremy Samuel Faust in scientific American blogs he's a doctor and he looked at his coveted nineteen emergency room and all the people that were coming in and all the people in intensive care and he He said there's a lot of people in here. We don't get this many people in our emergency rooms and intensive care for the flu. I've never in my career. Seen anyone die from the flu and then he went around and asked a bunch of doctors that he knew. Have you seen anyone die from the flu? Yeah one or two couple everybody. If people have been of the flu at the same scale that people have been saying. The cove is like the flu. If that had been occurring we would have been seeing our emergency rooms and our intensive cares overrun. But they haven't been and it turns out that the CDC has been using predictions for many years and not actual case fatalities that are reported by hospitals for the flu and so the Saudis. See the numbers that had been reported by the CDC twenty five thousand to sixty nine thousand flu deaths per year they are estimates that the CDC produces by multiplying the number of flu death. Count's reported by different court coefficients produced in algorithms that they use and they are based on assumptions of how many cases hospitalizations and death they believe went unreported and so in the last six flu. Season's the reporting method has changed and they've been reporting actual confirmed flu deaths. And that has ranged between thirty thirty four hundred to fifteen thousand six hundred. Wow incredibly incredibly lower than the numbers. We've seen elsewhere. I agree I I you know this is. This is unprecedented remits. It's actually precedent but it's president. It's unprecedented recent history. We've had this one of the things. Though that I would imagine is a lot more. People probably died at home from the flu then You know not going to the hospital thinking you'd take aspirin drink some orange juice and then it got worse. Turn people I think are running to the hospital with the fevers now where they might not have before so I will argue. That people are not because people are there are multiple factors with covert nineteen that people are not realizing that they are at in such inas bad estate as they are many individuals especially younger individuals Our people don't realize that they have as low oxygen levels as they do. People are Actually Very High Pasig. When in fact they don't their bodies are not telling them that their hypoc six so that oxygen loss is very detrimental and then secondarily. We're seeing And we did we talk about this last week. A little bit the coagulation of blood factors or okay. So this is something that's Come out more so in the last week that there seems to be an interaction between SARS Cov two and the blood in some way whether it's a downstream effect or a direct effect that's yet to be determined but what they are finding decreasing coagulation d.c increasing or at least increasing thickness of the blood so a young people are dying of strokes and so there could be a lot of people dying of strokes at home before they ever make it to the hospital So there are a lot of things that are lending our our numbers for the deaths reported in the hospital and are real numbers. There are so many factors that are There have been several articles coming out this week saying that our death numbers are probably vastly underestimated. The the interesting when I heard about a Florida was Florida wasn't recording. Cova debts if the people who died were residents. Oh what do you think if you were a student? Who moved there. Or if you're travelling there you just moved there if you didn't have residency in Florida you're on vacation you got this new died there. They weren't a reporting that numbers Kobe. Death because they felt that they were only responsible to report debts of Florida residents in that wherever that person was from. Maybe should have reported it but it wasn't up to them which nobody else is doing but So what if you're if anybody dies in Florida who's not a resident of Florida meaning also any future citizen future undocumented? Persons who dies of covert in Florida would not have been registered as a death cova and floor which is just insane because the whole point of reporting these numbers is to give red flags and alerts and L. Down raised job is. Yeah exactly but I mean if I may a little bit of good news I was hearing about this young people having strokes thing and that was kind of freaking me a little bit like what they are working on new Very cheap easy to make ox. Imitators that you can buy just like a thermometer so you can check your oxygen concentration every day. It's like you would in the hospital with little thing on the end of your those are available. My husband actually bought one of those arrived in the mail. They're not I think that there's a run on them at the moment so they are as easy to come by. But let's you know like just in you're thinking something that the powers that be could potentially do here is Distribute though distribute them the message. That would be helpful since if you're completely asymptomatic and then Bam you have a stroke like that's really it would be nice to be able to track it right able to track your oxygen levels and no if you're within normal ranges that'd be great every day it's like am I. Short of breath because of anxiety or is it. Because I think Heidi because I'm just holding my breath now and not breathing anymore. I find myself gasping for air. Like Oh yeah. This is me not breathing while social media in the public public places as if they've walked into the worst public restroom. I walked by people. That aren't distancing properly or art wearing masks. I'm like doing anything. I was getting to get up my nose now. No no I would say. Keep THAT UP. But don't keep it up so long that you pass out that person who you walked by not wanting to share space with might have out the map resuscitation and then then it's just minutes even worse now. That's that's not great. Oh there's so many things everybody we can get through this together. I found a great article published in nature. Yes by staying apart. Great article published in nature unoppossed in the show notes at twitter on twitter. Dot Org Oppose the link is just a wonderful review article on how What we know about covert nineteen right now and how it infects different tissues and the effects. It has on the body. It's it's science if you want to read a Science Article It's it's a good one but yes let's get through this together. Wash your hands at least twenty seconds. Try to do that every time you go to the bathroom every time you're going to cook food. Try Indian Monitor. If if you get concerned about things wash your hands more often that's okay and additionally let's let's start wearing masks and put them on correctly when we're in public spaces so that we can protect other people a day am I saw. Maybe five people wearing the mask face under their nose like you have to pretend you're good you're horseface. We're actually lately. I thought circulating a bunch today was if nobody's wearing pants seventy. Ps You. You get wet immediately if you're wearing pants at somebody peas on you. Then you'll get a little wet but not as wet if you weren't wearing pants. But if they try to pee on you and they're wearing pants and you're wearing pants you'll get an EP on you at all right now. Everybody were. That's pretty accurate leaked. That's that's exactly it doesn't do a whole lot over. Keep you from getting something for somebody else but it does a lot keeping you from giving it to somebody else and so it's just a social contract. We all have to enter into now during. That's that's where they switch. That's when they switched to everybody. Wear the masks because it I it was like you know you're not gonNA prevent yourself from getting it. This is the thing that there was talk about. This is if you're sick. You put the mask if you don't have it then you should now. They're actually if everybody wears it. That's GONNA knock it down just like you're saying getting peon on each other people that's right. Where a mass would come to stop peeing. There's enough we're GONNA have. We're GONNA have a lot of people wearing masks. The wrong on places entirely is a really big bass that covers from here all the way down bright. Yes okay all right moving on. Let's move away from coveted and into the other worlds of science. There's so much out there. Justin tell me about something you want to talk about. What about something? I WANNA talk about. An international team of researchers has piece together new insights into neanderthals based on pieces left in up pieces of neanderthal genome left in the current modern humans of Iceland. The researchers found new puzzle pieces by fishing around in the genomes of some twenty seven thousand. Icelanders have a giant database. They're the most interesting thing to me and this is. They discovered that neanderthal women gave birth later in life than the current modern humans in one sapien women at the time and that. Neanderthal man became fathers when they were younger than the Homo Sapiens of their time of around fifty thousand years ago. So that's sort of interesting because that that's not quite enough to say that neanderthals had a matriarchal society. But that is something you would absolutely expect to see in a matriarchal society that would be. That would be something that would totally make sense which we don't have A. That's not what the research says. But I thought that was a very interesting possible possible insight. Neanderthal women one hundred thousand fifty thousand years ago becoming mothers much later in life so interesting. So what are the other things there was there? Was there was Genes that are in this Nandito. They managed to actually put together about half of an Anderson. Gino and these twenty seven thousand individuals with different snips and bits and pieces that ticket They could pull out identifies neanderthal. There's properties in those jeans. They think have slightly lower risks of prostate cancer. Lower levels of haemoglobin will end also but better faster blood. Plasma clotting at the same time slightly very slightly lower body length Rizzoli millimeters that would citizens They also found traces of Denise van. Dna and they thought that was curious. 'cause the denise interaction with humans is typically seem whoa far Southeast Asia. It's not sort of considered to be the neanderthals. Were the European Earth contingent this point so part of it could be ancient demons traveling into territories populated by Denisovans and then Eventually ending up in northern Europe and Iceland. But it's Does assertive curious too. Because the way they look at it was either Denisov in Orlando Tall Partly the Denise. Vince could've intermingled with the neanderthals. And that's the denise Got In there but something. They're talking about three or four weeks ago. I think it kind of starting to look like Denise Been Zander tol might have been the same thing at one point and were separated for hundreds of thousands of years and then re Intermingled too so might be harder to Suss. Neanderthal from a denise Van Than we think it I think that looking question like if we can't tease them apart. What are we looking at? Yeah so we we can we. You know if they're calling. It definitely sounds like they've pulled something that they've gotten from the Denisa then traces in an places that we have at attributed to. But we're but it is still highly possible that what is being attributed to denise is also in contingents of neanderthals. It could be. It could be more of a shared genome much more similar than we think because they might have the same origin leaving after. We're very similar in timescale there at this point and then and then the split they just don't line went one went left and one went right. Looks like yeah and then they met in the middle of a bunch of times. Yeah I think I think the interesting part. Though to me definitely was the fact that they could sess out that the The mothers giving birth later in my and yes that has also starting waited. They waited until after they finish high school. Any narrow atolls also. We know cared for their sick. They had individuals who were physically unable to care for themselves. Having lost limbs or Ben Become Blind from head injuries because it was a brutal life of apparently of name are found in the inner tall without broken bones that healed at some point in their life so it was a it was a pretty rough exist so the idea that we have then neanderthals that can live. You know well into their forties and with injuries. Meaning they're cared for by. They had medicine remember. You told us they had like they had medical care and repair because women were injured alone doesn't kind of fits like if the women are charged. We're going to care for people a little bit more. We're going to be hit a little bit more thoughtful about these things and so yeah now. I'm starting to wonder you know radical officially a cut with a Female Zealand. Yeah and has no. I've been watching a lot of Star Trek live. And just I just thought episodes you space nine. Where new species shows up there like owner? No women are in charge matter to emotional and irrational and make snap decisions. The women they got it. I'm there we go. I love it when we were saying. I'm all for looking at me. And Earth follows like the neanderthals or the a matriarchal society. I'm all for changing that story. Well if you go back and look at what does that look like in in in other A apes we look at the Novo is is really the example that grip. Ask for example. We have of Matriarchal Society. We can even look to where we talk about while ago. The forest troop bamboos that the males couch guy killed off by the TIBURCO. Something awful and or the aggressive males didn't resist large population of females. That sort of took charge and changed the way that culture of babboons interacted. Yeah that's that's like we're all that we're all primates came from from a common answer. Lemurs though so yeah maybe we start to need to start to look for those signs of possible. Matriarchal Society within within the neanderthals. I like it I like it. I like it. I like it jeans. I think it's amazing that did looking at genes could potentially lead us in this direction and started telling us this story like Tree Rings Tree Rings. I who's thinking the same thing ends of humans if you just tuned in you are listening to this week in science and if you're interested in a twist or Mug or other item of twists merchandise goodness it over to twist dot org and click on that Zaza link. You can browse our store and buy something. It helps support this. Show all right. It is time now for layers. Animal Coroner's Values giant I have other virus. No in these BS. It'll be sunny barris. Okay so going to be. They don't yeah no they don't and in fact when honeybees are infected by a virus they might actually be better at spreading it then if they were just a normal healthy beat might actually have completely different tactics for moving around So this is looking at how Very particular infection. Apv Totally lost what that stands for a second but they altered honeybees behavior and physiology in order to actually boost the viruses ability to spread. It is Israeli acute paralysis virus. Yeah so they actually increase the likelihood that they will also be in accepted by foreign colonies so The first step of this is it turns out that this virus actually makes them more likely to lose their way though. The veterans get lost so they can't return to their home from foraging trip and that way when they stumble across a new high. It's very easy for them to spread this virus further Then somehow they are able to circumvent the guards of these foreign caller colonies that would normally keep bees. That are not part of the family out And so the the virus is doing very specific things to help aid the spread the way that researchers figured this out is by tagging each be with the equivalent of a Qr Code and continuously monitoring their interactions in In beekeeping operations so they were able to kind of keep a very close eye on them. They tracked around nine hundred bees and their movements in order to understand how they kind of watched. How the bees acted you have to understand something that bees do called? Trough Alexis which is where honeybees exchange regurgitated food and other liquids Very Nice mouth-to-mouth They use it to share food with each other they use it to share hormones and other signaling molecules and that can in turn affect physiology and behavior of bees. They touch mouth parts a touch antenna and they do this with hundreds of other bees each day so thinking about our current Kind of re examining of the handshake. This brings it into a whole nother realm so this trade as it were is essential to the spread of information in nutrition throughout hive but it does also allow for infections to transmit very quickly the infected bees in this study Were compared with bees. That had their immune systems stimulated to mimic infections. So they just see. Is this just something that happens. Would it be sick? In general or is it specifically this virus and both the infected bees and the ones who were simulating infection at overall less trophy laxest experiences than their healthy counterparts just in their normal highs so they they appear to be trading mouth stuff less Sorry I can't figure out unless gross way to say that of however were just as mobile as other bees. And so they're they didn't they weren't sluggish. They didn't ask particularly sick. And so the researchers thing that the change in behavior the reduction truffle access is just a general response to a health threat not related to this virus. What gets interesting with the specific response to the viruses. Remember the bees were getting lost easier then when they place these honey bees at the entrance of a foreign hive infected. Bees suddenly amped up the trough axis with the guards. They were just offered up all of the regurgitated foods and so the girls are more likely to admit them then healthy strange bs so it seemed like they were being bribed. I don't know Be BRIBES I don't earn money. I'll give hone Joe. I'll give you a little honey. Honey Yeah So the then. Researchers analyze the chemistry of the hydrocarbons in the vs exoskeleton and discovered distinct hydrocarbon profiles for healthy bees for ip the infected bees. An for immuno-stimulant obese. So there's something chemically happening inside the bees in each of these cases and so they actually think that the viruses changing how the smell in so the infected bees might be behaving in a way that is appeasing the guards basically. They're just like try to confuse them but they act like honeypot. They're given they're given up the they're giving up the the mouth regurgitation there. Maybe they smell like ooh. I'm confusing but don't look at me anymore. Then they run away into the hive right so they're lost so they just think they're going home but they're not so it's so this virus not only encourages them to spread the virus itself by making them lost in making them go to new hives. But then somehow this virus has found a way to induce behavior. That will keep our guard bees from seeing that. Something's up so right There's there's multi level deception having having a year to help spread this virus. I am reminded of a professor. I had that that was very adamantly He he would often point out that you know a bad. A bad parasite kills a toast or get the toast very sick. A good parasite goes almost unnoticed. And so it's I mean there are a lot of viruses out there that survive and replicate and continue in. Don't kill their host in there. A lot of bacteria out there that kill their hosts it. So I think there's there's also if you WANNA call it smart or not so that's a whole nother thing but it isn't effective at doing what it needs to do. Yeah I think that's what happens when you have something. Switches species like the nineteen probably finding bats. If I don't get fevers they probably don't end up on. Respirators it really. Don't die from it. It's just one of the viruses. That backing have been at system might even might even be symbiotic. Relationship in some way might do some function for a bat. We're unaware of but now it's a human which is completely different evolutionary machinery and it's causing havoc. Not As anti virus might do well. Is this switches? Yeah and it's having different outcomes. Yeah yeah flipping switches but having completely different outcomes because the switches are connected in different ways but it's not let's switch and ask Blair yes to to go onto her next store. You move on. Dr Kiki I believe Blair has another store so this is sometimes. I bring stories to the corner about us. Attempting TO MIMIC AMAZING ANIMAL ADAPTATIONS IN. A lab for use. This is one of those So this is looking at Credit spiders. I looked it up how to pronounce it before the show started. I already forgot But it is spiders that Spin Nanno fibers into sticky threads and the way that they do that is they actually have kind of a comb like structure on their back legs that allows them to kind of hold onto and thread and move these nanno fibers and in order for scientists to figure out how this worked they actually shaved the structure off of some spiders in watch what happened and there was a huge buildup of nano fibers where the comb should have been and then they attempted to make this in a lab to be able to manipulate nano fibers in a lab so they used an any adhesive nanostructures her on a foil surface and made this kind of comb to be able to handle nanno fibers in a laboratory setting. So it's quite the Almost microscopic structure that allows for something that I didn't even realize these spiders were doing back that they're kind of organized. It's almost like when you hold the yarn for for your grandma while she's knitting between your two arms if they're able to kind of move and manipulate these nano fibers at the back of their legs with the combs. And so they are able to handle these sticky delicate structures easily. These lasers pattern Nanostructures into poly ethylene terra late the oils increased oils with gold for a second. I thought you meant that. They gave lasers despitors. Maybe someday we can hope whenever the lead to go back to their labs again. Hopefully some people throw caution to the wind and try some real every product. Yeah so these artificial comes with old foil. Laser etched nanostructures performed almost as well as the comes on spiders. But the goal. Now we no. There's in a lab somewhere there. Little spiders just covered in sticky nano fibers. Going like what what is what. Am I supposed to be resign? He resigned comb spider combs for science. Oil like this in Youtube Nord says. So what do you do for a living? Oh I just shaved spider lakes that somebody's answer poor truth we'll get through the the rest of our stories. It is time for our quick science news. I have underwater bones. My bones aren't underwater. But I have a story. Researchers are trying to figure out better ways to determine how corpses have been underwater because out of the tree ring proteins proteins. That's what they're doing. Published in the Journal of Proteome Research Group of researchers know Emmy Prokopenko and colleagues published their analysis of a proteins to investigate the post mortem submerged interval. Pm SL. That's their acronym for it or the amount of time. That body has been underwater. So in case you didn't know that before now you know if there's a TV forensic drama they're talking about the PM SL. The Post Mortem submerged interval legit question about the story of a legit question about underwater bones. Yes would they think about forensic scientists normally look at things like maggots and And other Biota that would live in or on a corpse there? Are things like bom worms and things like that in the ocean right so so is that part of this too. It is part of it but this is a different part of it because There are bacteria and scavengers. That can actually make the PM. Sl difficult to estimate the researchers determined that there are proteins specifically a protein. Called fructose by phosphate. Al delays a that decreased in bone the longer that the bones were in water in pond water. They determined that. A protein called fetch. Who in a was more likely to be DE IMITATED CHEMICAL MODIFICATION THAT REMOVES? Amin Amin Than and other types of water which is really interesting. That pond water would have a different. A different effect on molecules than say freshwater or seawater Or Lake Water and so they named a whole bunch of molecules proteins. Like these that could be biomarkers to use for the study in estimation of dead bodies in bodies of water so Yeah looking at dead bodies in the water and then other researchers are looking at the center of the Earth but not literally looking at the center of the Earth. They were modeling. The center of the Earth by taking a really teeny tiny ten micron piece of iron and shoving it between two diamond anvils at pressures up to one hundred sixteen gig affects pass gals and temperatures induced by an infrared laser at four thousand three hundred fifty Kelvin and turning it into liquid iron and using x ray scattering to measure how dense it was. That's what other researchers PA and when they did that. They determined that the density of this liquid iron in their experiments was not the same as the estimated density of the iron in the Earth's outer core the iron in the lab was seven and a half percent more dense which suggests that the outer core of the the outer core of the Earth's core is not just iron that there's something else in it and element lighter than iron is probably in the outer core all right Justin. What stories do you have I'm GONNA I'm going to have at least one story. I my other one is like not playing here. We got eighty five million a year. Old Shark giant shark fossil found off the coast of. Spain might have been a teenager. It's a short vertebrae that they found and because of the way that the size of it in a way that it's grown. They can tell that it wasn't done growing even though it's already giant says according to Patrick L. Jim bur- who's lead author study based on the model? We calculated I size of four to seven meters and an age of thirty years for the examine shark. Now I know you're thinking not a teenager astonishing about this. Date is the fact that this shark was not yet mature when it died despite. It's rather old age. Sharks following a symptomatic growth curve. Meaning that they grow constantly until they mature and after that the growth curve flattens resulting reduced growth rate however this shark show any signs of flattening or inflections profile. Meaning that it was not mature teenager if you want. This suggests that these sharks grew even much larger and older. That's a that's a twenty one foot ish at as a teenager that's already getting into like wail territory for this thing. That's huge sharks along time to reach sexual maturity even now so great white sharks. Males are in their twenties thirties when they reach sexual maturity. So that's that's one of the problems with the shark. Conservation is that when they're hunted Sometimes you end up taking animals out that haven't yet reproduced in. That has a huge impact on the population. So it's kind of a weird. It's a weird life strategy that that messes up their role in the ecological space. Yes so it's a it's a it's a great strategy to get this big so you are the Apex Predator. Not a lot of things can attack you and you are on a successful hunter. You can eat anything just about any size in water But yeah if it takes you that long to get there and there's a big ecological change or shift or human fishing I'm calling It can also rapidly decimate. Yeah you can see. How if you're all over ten feet? You're you can take your time getting to sexual maturity because nothing is trying to eat you. You're like I'll get there when I get there. It's GONNA be fine. I want you all coming back long enough. Good luck with that. I looking at this image though. I just want everyone to know. That Shark Vertebrae Rings Growth. Rings look just like tree rings just bringing it back from with just like tree rings. I wonder what else we can learn about their growth. Both of a vertebrae my my my little story. To finish out the show is about a teeny tiny anaconda hero shrew and their vertebrae they're small mammals they're related to moles hedgehogs. They look kind of like rats but they're not And they have interlocking backbones that make their spines insanely strong. There is a theory or folk tale. Or what have you out there? That a fully grown man can stand on the back of this tiny little shrew and they'd be fine his of their reinforced backbone. We don't we don't know why we we do not know why they have this weird backbone and so some new research looking at C. T. Scans of shrew spines helped to figure out why they haven't in what they might use it for so Stephanie Smith. A postdoctoral researcher at the Field Museum at the received. Chicago was the lead author on this paper And so she. Compared to species of hero shrew at a normal shrew looked at their backs and specifically looked at How how the wear and tear on these bones indicate what those bones were up to before so these animals are pretty much impossible to observe in the wild and so they're having to deal with Museum specimens that are long debt. So they kind of have to look at the bones and see what's happening with the proteins to to figure out what has happened. They look at different Pressure change angles on them and so she said the reason I wrote the story is that this woman is amazing She says my absolute favorite example of this type of study a paper where they put sheep in Tall Shoes. High heels and the different angle of pressure changed the structure of the leg belts. They were able to do that by looking at the shoes. It looks like that it is a Susan High Heels. No they just looked at their bones but it looks like a previous theory from trying to thirteen. That shrews might be going into Elif structure and had a pushing it out to open it up to get to is likely what's happening because of the way that the spine it looks like it arches and then And then stretches out so it doesn't completely solve the question what they're doing but it looks like that would that so it might all be so they can scrunch up like an inch worm and stretch back out to push your part palm trunks to get at bugs and so she says strong quote. Schreuder really interesting ecologically. They're so small they have almost secret powers. They're incredibly diverse and I think they're beautiful. They're dope is hell. No if you take nothing out else out of this show from the animal quarters tonight. I want you to remember that. Shrews are dope as hell. I go also not sure thing today This spinosaurus is getting a little bit of a revamp. Spinosaurus got the big dinosaur with the big this issue Philistines. Yeah Big spiny fin on the back. It's got really white feet. They knew it was kind of big Predator and they knew it like eight fishing stuff. They've discovered a pretty intact tale. That also has a structure an absolute ability to do lateral movement. They now realize this thing was a swimmer. This dinosaur could chase after fish. Not just wait for one you know. Come up close and then take a bite out of could actually jump in the water and pursue things in. So that's a that's a pretty big change. I've found that we really haven't had a lot of reports. Dinosaurs ending the DC. It's just tile reptiles reptiles on the sea but there's not a lot of dinosaurs easiest. I think that we're able to to go back and forth. I think that's the most interesting part. Is that ability to go back and forth to dive in and be functionally set up to give chase under one and then or up on land or to be a sit and wait. Predator up on land looking to see what's up what's down below in the waters and then jumping in and diving after last superstar. I'm just going to mention this one. I'll put the Lincoln. Their remedy wants to read more. We talked about the collusive people. The big shell mounds and they had the the big fish fisheries in Florida. Yeah there's A. There's a four that they've been looking for a fourth. That was to San Antone Carlos which is one of the first two admissions in North America. It was built in fifteen sixty six. It was lost which was interesting because it was It was named after the Catholic patron saint of lost things. There was a little bit of irony to the fact that the figure out what happened to the sport so that Kingdom of collusion that we were talking about that they've been asking it turns out it's like right in the middle of it. They built this fort right and so what happened to the COOSA PEOPLE SPANISH GAME IN GAME. Diseases probably treated him poorly. The KALISA flat bunch of ended up Cuba and then they went together. Probably for a while then they split the wishes left and then soon after that apparently the the Spanish settlers would move. There couldn't maintain anything of of sustenance. They were getting fed. Fish from these big fisheries. The clues some people leave. Faces are working and like. Oh Yeah. There's no natural other food source around here and so they had elite too but Yeah that's where it was right there in the middle of the Kingdom of the Qaluza at Kingdom of that car loose That's neat that's a really interesting tie together there. I like that. Researchers discovered what they think is the most dangerous place in Earth's history it's a deposit of Cretaceous rock on the edge of the Sahara desert. An ancient stomping ground for dinosaurs. And then the Kem Kem group in eastern Morocco Is also what is the area specifically that they think might have been the most dangerous place in Earth's history the most dangerous time and place to have been alive because that's where they've found the largest number of large bodied carnivores in the fossil record. It there's a prevalence of carnivores a scarcity of herbivores and it's been found nowhere else. Can you have a biomarker? Carnivores eating other carnivores should. Somebody need to need to be the bottom of the food chain like somebody has to be taking energy from plants. You can't just have carnivores eating kind of that. Can't be sustainable. I don't think it's a very boom or bust that relation. But I think you could do for short-term yeah there's a review that's been recently published and putting a but they say it's a window into Africa's age of dinosaurs suggesting that kept the Cam Cam Group. The Kem Kem beds actually encompasses two distinct fossil rich sites that they're calling the GARAS SPA and the Upper Dwight Dura formations exhibiting a range of dinosaurs and tears. Sores Crocodile Crocodilians Turtles. Fish remains various invertebrates and plants and other fossils but The that it really is an over abundance of theropods the presence of four of them. Abella swords spinosaurus Karaka. Dont`a Soroush the Harris and Deltadromeus Agilis. And usually there's only like one or two but they had a lot a lot. I don't know why pretty exciting but I don't WanNa live lived there. I just had to get that story in because I saw it and it was neat and we were talking about bones and diet sores. Despite a stories we got to throw this in here because this is fun. I'm glad I wasn't alive then or there won't every made it to the end of the show. I think we have so we have gotten here. We've come to the end of the show. Thank you for listening. I hope you enjoyed the show. 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