Episode 01: A Face On A Billboard
There we are. It's a cold and cloudy winter afternoon. Her noon in San Luis Obispo and I'm retracing missing cal. Poly Student Kristin Smart's last known steps in May of Nineteen ninety-six from a house just off campus next to the entrance of her redbrick dorm building on perimeter parameter road Segel's are screaming overhead as I pass a huge modern looking REC center with students on the second story looking down at me through Florida's ceiling glass windows while they run on treadmills other students walked by me having loud conversations on their cell phones. Maybe I'm just self conscious but it feels like some of them are looking at me suspiciously. I'm I'm dressed modestly and wearing a hat and a backpack so I'm not sure what exactly they're picking up on but maybe giving off some sort of vibration that says I don't belong here at one point two girls pass me and I clearly here one say to the other that guy. I did not look our age so much for self esteem. I cross a break green crosswalk and my right or a series of red buildings with California theme names and brass on their sides. Sequoia Roya Santa Lucia Fremont the full walk only takes me about eleven minutes and by the the end of it. I'm surprised to see that. The distance between the last place she was seen alive and the door to her dorm. Building at mere hall is just about forty yards. It's in these forty yards. Kristin smart disappeared over twenty three years ago and the case is still unsolved. There are currently more than a half million people missing in the United States a staggering fifty thousand thousand or added to the list every month but the vast majority of them are quickly found and removed teenage runaways. Angry with their parents or people who just wanted to be left alone own for a while still six hundred and fifty thousand have never been found dead or alive. It's a heartbreaking statistic statistic but one that most of us are not really equipped to do much with the majority of these cases all never even hear about a few of them will probably become. I'm aware of from the news or a headline scroll by but since I'm not an investigator there's really not much help I can provide. It's a little well different. If you have access to some of the people and places involved different when someone goes missing in your your own backyard learn uh in growing up. On the California's central coast is probably pretty much like growing up anywhere else. People who aren't from your seat as picturesque arrest seaside paradise and the people who were born here can't wait to get to move to a real city. Were there things to do these days. I find myself somewhere in the middle. I was born in nineteen eighty eight in Santa Maria sixty miles north of Santa Barbara and thirty miles. Miles south of San Luis Obispo. I grew up in Oregon a small town. which is pretty much just Santa Maria and everything but name and population in May of nineteen ninety six? I was in second grade. When a nineteen year old cal poly student named Kristin smart went missing as an eight-year-old I really didn't know how to process that information except to be a little more afraid of kidnappers? When I was playing in my front yard I was still trying? Grandmaster tying my shoes with the O.. J. Simpson trial barely in the rear view mirror and a few months to go until the murder of Jon. Benet Ramsey. The Kristin Smart disappearance took center stage on our TV that summer. Especially because it happened in our own community and smart Christmas Marsden Marston. Smart Kristin Smart's Chris Smart Christian smarten over the next few years. Kristen is behind Chris. Start besides the occasional comparison to later missing persons cases. I didn't hear her name for a long time in a royal `Grande about eighteen gene miles north of me. There's a small strip of businesses on branch street that locals call the village just across the street from a historic swinging swinging bridge that spans. The Royal `Grande Creek is a billboard faded from years of sunlight and recently set back between a couple of trees. He's it used to be more prominent. But it's easy to miss now unless you're really looking for missing CAL poly student. Kristen D he smart seventy five thousand dollar reward. It wasn't something I thought I've often but driving past that billboard was a periodic reminder minder that Oh yeah they still haven't found that girl. It's been twenty three years now for the last four years. Kristen has been a missing person for longer than she was alive as many times. Mrs I'd heard Kristen's name I couldn't tell you a single thing about her and when I started asking around last summer I found that almost everyone I talked to remember her name and her face from the billboard but that was as much as they could tell me about her several of them had her confused with Elizabeth Smart a girl from Sandy Utah. Who was abducted from her bedroom in two thousand two when she was just fourteen years old but was subsequently rescued a year later and for various reasons which I'll get into in later episodes quite a few people I asked thought that Kristen's body had already been found? There are people still living locally though who have to no more. I'm just not sure how to find them. I googled Kristin Smart's name every few years and I was never able to find much. There's a wikipedia page but it's short rarely more than a few paragraphs graphs and I never got a strong sense of the timeline of events in her disappearance. But then I happened upon a five thousand word article that ran the Los Angeles Times on June. Eighteenth Two thousand six incidentally twelve days after I had graduated from high school an Article I had somehow missed up until last summer written by Peter h King. It was the first in a series of true crime stories that he was commissioned to to write for the paper last. May I had some free time so I sat down to read it and spent two days poring over details that I had never heard before events that took place in locations. I've driven by a thousand times and I was suddenly hooked and needed to know more so I looked for for a documentary about the case but there wasn't one a couple of half hour spots on shows like vanished or unsolved mysteries but no full length deep deep dive into the whole story. I found a few PODCASTS. That did their own episode about it but they mostly revolved around reading from the WIKIPEDIA page while making mixed drinks wchs. which really isn't what I was looking for here? Come on Martinis. So how did I get here making documentary about this case myself. I I don't know I just checked. And I'm a musician and recording engineer. According to my linked in profile at least once a day I ask myself. What are you doing and my answer on a good day when I'm not pulling my hair out is pretty simple? I'm going to try to to learn everything I can about Kristen smart and what happened to her. In the only way that I know how by talking to people First on my list Peter King the La Times writer. Who since gone freelance ties? This Peter yes it is Chris it is is good okay. So what can I do for you. Yes so I wanNA find out what made him interested in Kristin Smart's case to begin with and how it it affected him to dig so deeply into it. I'm up front with them. That I am not a professional and I know he is so I want to get a sense of where he came from and and whether he feels like he was able to accomplish what he set out to do. How long had you been at the La Times and was just like your typical sort of assignment? I had started in the early eighties Wondered away to the to the mcclatchy papers came back And at some point they decided they decided they wanted me to do long form through crime. Stories think lasted two years and the first one I did was kristen. SMART I attended cal. Poly in the seventies I had stayed attached the university through advisory Boards and whatnot. And you would drive down over the hill Cuesta Grade. And you'd see that big billboard. I had a sense of place about cal. Poly is part of my life and that's just seemed to be a a wound that Kelly had suffered and I wanted to explore it. Kick it around and see what the mystery was that they couldn't resolve the case at a public university in the middle of California. If it just seem interesting to me that they had not been able to put it together and when I started sort of like you Chris. I didn't know anything about it. Really which she was a good way to start because then I just started peeling away. Layers after layers trying to trying to leverage information to get more information and finding the right people could actually lead you to a document or a description and whatnot so I spent some time on ended up going down to the place in the Times. Let me go pretty deep on trying to get. It's far to the bottom as they could while we talk about it. We both agree that what really pulled into this. Case was kristen's parents. Stan and Denise Smart. She was a dreamer in news clips. Like this one. From last year I moved by the Smart Families Grace and composure. Two decades end to the tragedy of what happened to their daughter where we won't give up and so as Peter to two apparent ninety nine point nine percent sure is a long long way away a from one hundred percent. Sure but they're never gonNA give up until they they kicked it at one hundred percent because who wants to be the parents when the way wayward child returns you know one in a million so well we look for a while but then we just figured you were gone. I mean that would be that would have to haunt them. It's trite but they're they're they're the real victims. Kristen is the primary victim. What they've lived through it was his harsher than a penitentiary term? You can be a prisoner in your own mind. Do you have kids okay. I've I've got to and just the niece has never going to stop. She's never going to say. Oh you're right you know. Let's move von. She never going to move on. She might do other things. They've got other children. They get their love and all that but they're really prisoners at this. It's it's just so frustrating that it can't get resolved but I I don't think they would find closure they would they would just know in their hearts had Was Gone for sure what I remember as sort of discomfort about myself trying to try to even though they wanted a story in the Los Angeles Times that I still kinda different that way. It was still trying to thread that needle letting them know. I'm not here to exploit you know if you want me to go away I will go away away But if I if you know if you work with me I'll work real hard to get an accurate story so I was trying to forge a relationship action ship a little more than just a you know an interview and they were helpful if memory serves. I think it's been a couple of months reporting and and it wrote fairly quickly all the material probably a couple of weeks. I'm not I'm not a stonecutter but I'm also not the world's fastest writer What was sort of the legacy of that piece once you put it out? What kind of response did you get? And how do you feel about it this much later in response to articles as sort of a funny thing you get you get conspiracy theorist you get mom our just WANNA agitate you you get fans it comes in and all capital letters. I don't open up the email or wreath letter. It didn't solve the case. You always go in looking for for homer. oftentimes you gotta be content on second base with the double. This is probably a double. I think it got a lot of is opened like your own this is maybe you're documentaries the legacy that article no pressure. I don't even know if I'm capable putting something like this together. And even if I m capable do I have the right. The more I thought about it the more I decided that I only needed the approval of two people. I am driving northbound on the one. Oh one onto stockton to see Stan and Denise Smart. I had a hard time getting to sleep last night. which is really weird for me? Just just a lot of anticipation nerves. When I I reach out to the smart family I'm not sure how receptive they'll be sitting down for another our interview in the late nineties? They did the usual talk. Show Circuit Maury Povich Liza Sally Jesse Rafael and more serious shows like twenty twenty Wannian unsolved mysteries but a few years ago stands smart made a judgment call no more. TV shows no more allowing the story of their daughter's disappearance to be exploited for ratings. So when I show them what I've been working on for the past year. They're cautious but receptive like Peter King. It's important to me to let them know that I'll go away if they want me to. But all later learned that they can see early on that. My heart is really in this that I wanna find their daughter. You're almost as badly as they do. Almost so they invite me to their house in Stockton. The House they moved into in Kristen. I am was nine years old and after four hours on the freeway I pull up to the curb in front of the staircase that leads to their front door. Which I recognized from Kristen's high school graduation graduation videos? I take a minute to collect myself before I get out of the car. You're sketchy speech stairs. You've been stocking server wondering my wife so you haven't called cats. Regard details took myself case longtime old. I take a seat on their sofa in front of a coffee table on top of which sits a box of family photos. Denise sits next to me nursing a wasp sting that she got on her arm the day before and stand pulls up a chair across from us as as I start to go through the ball crazy when you look at these pictures. It's like this just a regular normal family just saying how do these crazy things just in everyone. What happens to other people? One of the picture shows the three smart children dressed in nutcracker costumes with blush on their cheeks and Matt Christian's younger brother looks a little less than enthused so when we first moved here so we moved into some apartments. We're going to have a house built down the street and that fell through so we bought this House but keeping busy casino. Norway moved in. When you're in town kids are signed up for reports? Are To do things. But you can't do it late so I just signed him up to be on the nutcracker none of the dancers after talking for an hour or so and doing my best to explain what Michael's this story are Stan offers to drive me around Stockton to show me some of the places where kristen liked to hang out over the years. Denise has become the defacto spokesperson for the smart family. Stan has gotten quieter and has a hard time coming back to the San Luis Obispo area now now associating it with painful memories of searching for his daughter's body in forests tunnels and riverbeds I expect him to be guarded but he. He doesn't seem to have any trouble opening up playing around the river there with wetsuits looking for gold cracks. Last last year we had gone good father and son time we had gone up there and span Dan about four days he had a quarter ounce of really nice chunky gold and which was exciting is normally. Don't find hardly early any lights at this time next time so when you do find some exciting in water is just beautiful crystal clear so it makes for a good time and so Can take you I for elementary school. This is Michael barone across intersection on the left so it's a K.. Through six and then Lincoln High School is has ever hear about a mile to the right and nine hundred twelve and next door is the junior high middle title school. This is Mabel Baron stand pauses looking serious for a minute insights always twenty twenty share and she was real interested in Athletic shoes good swimmer. I issue shoe has a competitive at the level or other two children afterwards Good swimmer and she likes volleyball and she a did things with volleyball kids. You see if we find a spot here willing park back here is care. It's fill okay so she likes water. Skis Denise arranged a lunch on on the marina with a group of family friends who all new kristen growing up to share some of their favorite memories with me while I'm in town. Kristen Babysat for many families families in our neighborhood and was everyone's first choice because of how much she engaged the kids showing them how to make tie dye shirts and rehearsing skits for them to perform for their parents. Once when a mother came home after being out for the evening she found Kristen standing in her doorway with a panicked look on her face fearing that something had happened to one of her kids. She asked what was wrong. And Kristen profusely apologize for spilling a little bit of Nail Polish in our living room bill amongst her friends. Kristen was warm and a little quiet. The last one to start a fight and the first one to invite them on vacations with author family order her house. For A sleepover. Fries and noble there are five different conversations going on around the table and it's hard to keep up with all of them everyone laughs when they recount the time. Kristen applied to be a counselor at summer camp in Hawaii even though she wasn't old enough yet and was except accept anyone and everyone cries when one of the songs from Kristen's memorial service comes on the radio while we're talking about her. Aw I go back to my hotel later with a plan to meet the smarts the next day before I leave and for the first time that night I feel a tremendous sense of loss in a way that before now had only been empathy. Now I feel like I've lost a friend early. The next morning I meet with Stanford and needs against there is thank you yes talking into a microphone is an uncomfortable process for everyone. You GotTa Talk to get Your Voice on there and you can go play deeper now. Would you like sir. You Guys WanNa talk at the same time I to me go there ever shirt. I sit down with stand in the family. Room and later denise and the kitchen action and asked to hear Christian story from the beginning I just try and do reflect back have ury twentieth nineteen seventy seven. Kristen was born overseas in Germany. Germany where we are so thrilled Davos child because we haven't been able oh to conceive without we're going to have to adopt a German baby boy after a long day labor. Kristen was born. Stan went to breakfast with our good friends and said the answer to our population is that men should have the children and there would only be one for family Ben. He didn't share that with here. And then we decided to return back to the US after we had been there just about three years overseas overseas wonderful experience and we had a little girl who we brought home seem like she would almost finished shoebox we had with. Everybody expects when you go to Germany when you come back with Volkswagen Cuckoo clock and a child so go we had all three came back and he got the job just outside of Yuba city at a high school is a counselor. I guess the first priority businesses just kind of getting settled and Kristen. She cried a lot and as it turned out she was allergic to milk. Fortunately at about nine months we figured figured it out and she turned into kid that you really wanted to keep and she was much happier. She got older sort of feeling a sense of invincibility and she could do anything she wanted to do. She walked very early. She talked very early. She was on a mission really. She knew what she wanted to do. A I WANNA kids. Are that way. But that big zest for life my holy moly. I can do anything like that in October. Nineteen seventy nine. The the Smart Second Child Matthew was born. Initially if you're the only child research the center of the universe and then when the second child comes along you need to have a a dollar something to play with since you're no longer the center of the universe and she so embraced having a brother. I remember in the hospital where our shoes just walk. When is he going to walk? And I said well it's going to be it's GonNa be a while and I've seen other families where a new child comes in when that child is too and they want nothing to do with that child and she was. We had to stop her from smothering the boy because she was just on him so that started very early finally in January. Nineteen meaty to Lindsey. The last of the three smart children was born and You know the third child so then we were complete family having three children front two girls and a boy and then of course Lindsey was little brother at that. Point can really be pain. So it's like well good. I've got someone he'll did. Did I tell him to do being the eldest child. I think she was an overachiever mayonnaise. She did things to please her mom and dad and in school she worked hard to have good grades and I think you find that true. Most families from there's more than one child at the Ellis. One parents really sort of focused on that child initially getting getting a school and and working and so forth so she she met that and she was already so organizer. It's like I said before. She periodically thinks she was a teacher feature Langham Allah. Make him sit and tell them what to do and sometimes they do it. Sometimes they wouldn't do it. And then she said a church service and make him sit and pray and sometimes it worked sometimes. It didn't work in home videos. You can see an active and engaged. Engaged fixed sister playing with her siblings and the snow and on beaches running. Lemonade stands and singing Christmas carols. And as she grew up kristen participated in school plays Soccer Games and swim tournaments on a cruise. She learned to make Omelets. The way the ship's cooks did and back at home started a routine of making them for family on Sunday mornings. Even though she mostly avoided eating a cubes she spent sometime in London with friends and Venezuela where she was a foreign exchange student for a summer when she smiles at the camera. Her dark eyes narrow mm-hmm with genuine warmth. She was close with both of her parents. She join. Join me and doing things. Although I think our interests are more in line with her mother my interests are quite a bit out of doors and doing things outside and camping camping going places so she always enjoyed going when we go to Yosemite or if we go to the beach so she liked water and she liked travel things that when we did that way and I think that was part of her. Makeup loved travel extensively. A the globe is their playground so I think she had those values values. I think she was always kind of finding her sense. And I think this is important for a lot of parents to understand that continuity child's life is really really important so we moved from Yuba City as she came here in fourth grade fourth grade. They think they're pretty hot stuff. Fourth graders and you you have to break into the into the group so she did the standard birthday things so she was embraced by her friends friends and pulled into it and then they kinda changed the boundaries on the school so that kind of upset the apple cart so you have to find new friends. Then then they went back to Mabel Baron and she reconnected with you know the friends that she had made earlier so I would say she wasn't the leader. The group says the leader of the pack but she was certainly not quiet she was just part of the group. I meet one of Kristen's closest friends and Marie for breakfast. While I'm in Stockton. Uh Afterwards we sit in my car facing the Stockton Marina while she flips through a photo album to show me pictures and I asked her to tell me about her friend friend. Okay this is on just I remember Kristen as A dear childhood friend friend we got to know each other from elementary school. We're really good friends in fifth sixth grade on Seventh Eighth Grade in stayed in touch watch Through high school even though we we went to different high schools while my most Memorable memories of of her and I was young. Kids stuff plane at each other's house on weekends and She loved to swim so a lot of our activities volved around swimming in the summertime. I remember being at her house a lot. I sleep over at your friend's house and baking cookies making popcorn and watching movies in it just loved her parents and her sister brother. My our families knew each other for you know these really good childhood friends and we we went through sixth excrete graduation in eighth grade promotion graduation together. She had a lot of vibrancy. And you can see from photos. She has wonderful smile and laughter. She appreciated Humor A lot of memories. Come back when I look at pictures of us. Pictures of US in sixth grade is being goofy at the pooer at the this thing called the beach club where kids would go through the pull and the beach. You just go and hang out like sixth grade kids like what we were like twelve years old probably and I remember her love of drawing especially like architecture in homes and she'd have graph paper remember. She would show me for being memory of being over house when we went swimming and she was showing me some of her new drawings of her new architecture of the houses that she would like layout map mountain mountain so much attention to detail she had such a gift I remember that's why she In my memory. That's why she went chose cal poly to go to because they had such a good architecture program and that's what's her dream. You know that in to travel the world she you know she had a great great smile. Great Laugh Shoe. You know I just remember lots of laughter and having a good time you know and just doing your normal every day. Things he's never getting into trouble. I mean we we were pretty innocent. We were in girl scouts together. She was a wonderful friend she was. I would still imagine that we would be friends today. I have no doubt we would. I'm still friends with her family in where she could imagine our our kids playing together which we back living close to where we are? I don't know but It's it's just not fair. She should she should be here. and Ah she's you know amazing person and I just I I've struggled with it for for so long long. Stan worked as the principal of vintage high school in Napa and because of the long commutes wasn't able to spend much time time at home in Stockton so in her junior year. Kristen decided to switch schools leaving her friends behind to spend more time with her dad. I think that was difficult year for because you know I reflected on when I went to high school I remember. The principal son was student taught during the time that I was going to high school. And I've thought about you know. I think it was very very hard for her to meet. Ah Dad's standards for his high school and Napa Finish High School. We didn't have a home that we were living in we moved around around and through rotary a lot of the rotarians denied rotarian provided as with places to stay. When they were traveling we stayed in some beautiful homes? housesitting and Also I rented some places we might be you know in one location for a week or a few days and I think that was difficult for her. We didn't always have a bed to sleep in. Sometimes we slept in sleeping bags and so we had a lot of time in the morning and then we went to school and then afterwards go out to dinner somewhere. I really didn't have the facility to cook there. Era later I did but I think it was difficult for her to socialize and that she didn't have a place to meet friends or you communicate very well other than at school at the time so she stuck that out for a year which was a bit trying on her. Maybe on me a little bit and then she came back home to mom and completed over here to Lincoln High School in Stockton in her last year of high school. Kristen reconnected with Old Friends like Roxy. I think probably I was. I was her close longest friend so she was friends with my sister. My sister was in the grade. I'd say she was probably one of the best friends you can have for just a very kind polite carey. Shy girl she. You helped me with my homework. A Lot 'cause she was really really really smart. Some of the funnest memories we have her parents would take her in Idaho. Seventy and we'd climb you know climber. Hike Kristen loved shop and we would go to the Spree outlet which was really fun. You know it was a little kid or just you know a young girl. It's a big basically warehouse of just boxes and boxes of discount clothing. She used to share close with me and she was always so sweet about it. You Know See love. Bob Marley. Tom Petty even like wrap my sister and I would pick her up. I don't think she had a car in high school so my sister was always the DJ of all of our music and some of the songs that we played you know. Kristen system would get a smile thinking about it. 'cause she'd get all you know barest you know kind of August. 'cause we would play some of the more graphic songs but she was really shy. Really shy after graduating from Lincoln can high school on June eighth nineteen ninety-five. Kristen traveled to the island of walking to work as a camp counselor. Lifeguard at Camp. MOCHA Leah Over what no one knew would be the last summer of her life Christian. You hear me. I tracked down Rachel Bird. Who shared a cabin with Kristen? At MOCA Leah. Yeah that's summer Christian with my co counselor at Camp and so I spent every single day with her morning noon and night for re months or whatever it was you are told. Who's in your cabinet? There's younger cabin. You know. Medium aged half in older cabin so we took care of the youngest kids for a whole summer and Kristen and I got fleet together meeting Paul mutable wine circa girl like only gosh worked by being. After summer camp and cousin passed away he had a heart problem. And I remember Kristie that were actually was was a big support to me during that time. 'CAUSE it was really my cousin was like she was always there for me. I think there's actually a picture at one of our families and there's a picture where I'm crying and kristen tugging knee and just it's just a girl you know. She was definitely like the super girl. She loved me out in the water. Anytime she can go circuit respirator. Anything like that he wanted to be out there doing that. I remember doing hair wrapped on her hair. She's just about very like Percy I wouldn't WanNa see like flower child but like kind of like yeah like nothing ever adversary to get their calm and collected you know we were both tall. I'm tall and hefty issue tone joked at like the two of us were the twin towers because the vote so tall we were both older like six feet ish and her legs went up to my shoulders and my legs winter like her knees. 'cause I'm tall when the short legs and she you just had these legs for day then she gorgeous right like anybody would be around and the person that does is goes through. Britain says she just had that look. We got to get shaved the kids fun zone. Twenty four seven right We're more than nurturing. Mother dairy lying mellow. It's like. We're good when you were. There was all about just being Hawaii League pitchers of being out front of our cabin all of the today on a picnic table. You know you're young and it was fun you now then winter reunion the richer injury union between Christmas and New Year's I think actually went over New Year's I'm it's a smaller version of Pam. Not As many kids and then you were getting ready to go back. uh-huh in June and I know you've been hired. I was working at the gap county again and the whole summer kind of did where is she is somewhere to go nowhere. You know dancing through life and then all of a sudden somebody's gone and it's like we but I wanNA hold onto those memories and like I want to remember every moment because I didn't know there weren't GonNa be any moment focused on our academics but struggling with mild. Add Kristen had doubled up her workload to Graduate Graduate Semester Attending San Joaquin Delta College for extra credits to increase your chances of being accepted to a four year university it worked worked she was accepted to UC. Santa Barbara and had already paid a deposit for a dorm room there when she abruptly decided that she would rather attend somewhere a little closer to home so after returning from Oahu. Kristen moved from Stockton to San Luis Obispo to study at California Polytechnic State University known to students and locals as cal poly where she originally intended to major in architecture but later switched to communication studies with the the goal of traveling. The world is a reporter like Joan London here again her friend Roxy from Stockton. We stayed close until she left for school cool. I don't do therapy too often but I'm in PT Right now. Because I just had a baby you know you know some weird things have been popping up you've ever. Have you ever had mouse treatment before they put at your your hand in your mouth. Do All your muscles a memory pop back in my head Navy too because you had called me you know she was going off to college and that want to come back to stockton you know she just wanted to become an architect and live overseas and China. Just become you. You know free. She told me she wouldn't be calling me too much when she left for school. which was heartbreaking? Because I'm a I was a senior at the time so I didn't. I didn't talk to her when she was in school at all. I guess that's kind of common. You know when you leave a town like Stockton but the neat thing you know my husband. You said that I didn't peak in high school. Well I'd say that Kristen didn't speak in high school. You know what I'm saying like. She had her life to peak. I think that it was her time. You just you know get her architect degree and stay the world you know because she enrolled late. She missed her chance to get a dorm room on campus. So so she moved into the Steiner Glenn Apartments at ten fifty East Foothill Boulevard now known as the slow so she had a really really nice roommate there. I thought she was nice but it came from very small very sheltered kind of background so it wasn't an on happier appier dorm relationship. She just wanted to be on campus and so sh- her name from the get-go was on the waiting list when she returned to cal. Poly after after spending Christmas nineteen ninety-five with friends back at Camp McCulloch. She moved into room one twenty at mere hall one of six historic residence halls known known as the red bricks. When she got the call that she could go she had to give thirty days? I think two Standard Glenn and then I didn't help mover. She Somehow Mel probably found some of the car or something but she got resettled and she said Oh. It's so much better. I can walk to class. Casinos Tenor Glenn is not right. Next door acclimating. The life on campus. Kristen worked to reinvent herself using nicknames like Kiana or Mirasol in her emails and dying her naturally blond hair Brown. She still called her parents every Sunday though and they travelled down to San Luis Obispo several times to visit her we probably he went down after the Christmas holidays in we went down after Easter vacation. Because we've gone on a trip with the kids that's when I saw the brown hair and she told me about the brown hair But it seeing She was like all children going away. They're rather independent. When you get to college and myself off my wife and yourself and everyone else knows that you know like Brown I think you know Sometimes gets make their hair red or green or something. So how long's she would've kept it. I don't really know the college classes came as a bit more of a struggle for kristen than high school had and not long after moving into mere hall she started to express doubts about whether cal poly was right for her there were other replaces. She told her mother like the University of the Virgin Islands or Puerto Rico where she could go to get a doctorate when denise came down to visit her in early nineteen ninety-six. Kristen broke down begging her mother to let her drop out and go somewhere else she really everyone's too much. The same and the reality is freshman. Year is really hard year for many majority. I would say it's a huge. His transition being away from home being responsible for your laundry having do your homework and she was working as a lifeguard so she tried to get as many hours as she could at the pool and of course is the Newbie which hours are open in other five and six. AM hours and she was like most teenagers take. They love their sleep so she was probably tired. She's fatigued and adjusting. But like I said. I don't think it's unusual for kids. In their first year of college. To in fact I had a friend whose son was a year ahead of Chris he was at pepperdine and I talked to her about Christa. Not Wanting to be there said Oh my God. That just sounds like todd last year. He just wanted out of there so bad but once you've finished I never said I did. Monica unpack here transitional phase. I think I think with my my other two. They were really entrenched in swim team and they swam for their colleges. So you kind of have a built in network of fast friends that you blood sweat and tears with so. It's very much of a bonding thing. And for other kids going to college you have to work to build. Your network of France is not automatic and all that she could swim team and they asked her to cal. Poly I think. Maybe she was a little swimming burned-out she was always happy camper. She wanted to after being there for nearly a year. She wanted to go to another school to travel more school overseas. She had all these grandiose ideas lease they presented me at the time in early May of nineteen ninety six which just a few weeks left to the spring quarter. Denise sent her daughter a letter reminding her that she had a world of opportunities that are fingertips and urging her to learn from her mistakes and finish out the semester. You know I do remember writing. Probably the last letter she got from us. So that's kind of hard in like you know everybody's mentioned before she was smart smart enough kid but it's like I think she's trying to do too much at one time. So you learn from your sakes you have to prioritize what's really important and you're in school not turn a lot of money you're ear in school so that you can in the future have recruited that you like your money so I think she tried to take on to try to take on too much and didn't really prioritize. The academic piece of the issues of I mean kids go off to college. You don't know what they're doing so she certainly didn't right. Tell me Oh I went into this and so it was. Parents get a modified version of what's going on and the version I got was all I can't say that much is I have to work. I have to get up. You don't understand I have to get up at four thirty in the morning in saying reprioritize so we weren't really there. You weren't helicopter parents. She was nineteen. She knew everything Dan the last time you saw her in person. I do remember sitting on the bed in the hotel room with her. And just kind of talking about life in general and then we're going to go to her dorm later. I think stamp took her back to her dorm and she said but you have to wait a little walk. I'm clean it up. You're going to be some crest. How Clean Harkness Africanus and crystal was gone that weekend? So they talked about Lindsay can spend the night in the dorm with her. It just didn't happen just because I don't know I think what's the place where they'll eat. Eat ribs McClintock. Yeah so I just got late. uh-huh she went back to the hotel with us so it was probably whatever spring break West for them marched on May twenty second. Kristen wrote her last letter to her friend. Anne Murray who. She hadn't really kept in touch with after going away to college on stationary decorated with angels and Cherubs. She expressed her condolences. I'm died suddenly by suicide when I was a freshman. Been in college at the end of my freshman at the same time I was in San Diego and she was in Cappelli and after Kris went missing her mom found on this letter and she had written a sympathy note to me and she actually had talked to her mom about it over the phone. indies gave that to me About a month or so after kristen went missing. Something I've I've held onto state because it means so much of the words that she you know that she wrote and How much she cared even though we were apart because we were both at different schools and whatnot pre resell phone era? Kristen had a standing date to call home every Sunday night from her dorm room to stay in touch with her family on Friday may twenty fourth the start of a three day Memorial Day weekend. She made an unscheduled phone call to her parents who were out at the time. She left a message on their answering machine that she she had good news and would call back on Sunday Standing Denise Smart Listen to the message later that night my wife actually had had a message aged good news. Good news I don't even know how we found out along the way but we did find out that the call was about. She was concerned about a grade and they apparently had found a paper. You know. are attested and she had a good score on issues excited about that. I said it biology in chemistry class or something where. They couldn't find her finals so they had given her an incomplete. And so I know she I well we were talking about that beforehand. Because she didn't like confronting people am. I said if he took the test Sarah Responsibility to find it. So so. Don't feel bad that you put it in a pile or did you put your name on it. And she said it was a scantron so you had to fill out your name. Sorry name was on it so so I heard afterwards. I don't know if it was from. I don't know how we found out that we found out that. That's what the good news good news wise so if you only knew that what you knew now you know so Nice Nice community. Wonderful people and and MM-HMM I can't think of a safer location however it's just like any location there are one or two people that can destroy someone's life so thanks can change change overnight that Friday evening after making the phone call Christine got dressed and ready to go out with friends for the night after settling on a great crop top black shorts and a pair of Red Puma brand shoes. She left Mir hall with her friend. Margarita compost compost. Who lived in the room next door hers? She didn't bring her. ID or money with her and she had lost her rookie so she was depending on Margaritas key to get them back into the dorm building that night. They ran into two other girls in the hall who are also looking for something to do so the four of them fled down a guy in a truck. They knew you and asked him to drive them around to find an off campus party to attend as a side note. Kristen was afraid to drive and never got her own driver's license Margarita. Compost was probably Kristen's only close friend at CAL poly they bonded over their. Add and spent a lot of time in Margaritas Room. Talking talking about boys and making cassette mix tapes. I tried to get in contact with Margarita for a few months through social media and email and when those were unsuccessful successful through cold calling her I left her a few messages and never heard back so. I figured that she wasn't interested in talking to me but I was wrong. Hello Hi this is Chris. Is High Chris's Margaret. I'm sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. The story of Christians last night has been told many times and through small inaccuracies and early news. Stories the details had become mixed up and embellished over the years. There's so I ask Margarita. Walk me through her memory of that night from how they decided to go out looking for a party in the first place right up to the last time she ever. I saw kristen. So that night we choosing my room and I was Kinda stressed out so I was like. Oh my gosh I have this biology final and I hated biology at the time like ended up switching my major but that said I was extra. She's like Oh what are we gonNA do tonight and I was like I don't I don't know nothing I'm GonNa do nothing I'm going to study you know. And she's he's like Oh comics. Do something music and she was like. Oh can I use your had a like a double cassette so you can make a recording. You know of music. Oh I WANNA make a recording of this or something as we were listening to music and apply in my mind I just think of Cyndi lauper true colors. I remember her like almost telling you come on Margarita. We're GONNA go out. You can't just day like we have to go out up and I was like. Oh God it's almost like she lives in a let me not she wasn't GonNa let me stay She wanted me to go. And then somehow we connected with the girl down down the hallway and they were all down the hallway and I guess one of the girls was like WE'RE GONNA PICK US UP AND WE'RE GONNA go to some party and then I don't know if it was a party or get together something but we went down ended up coming up in this truck and driving to some like residential home at a house off of Foothill Boulevard. They sat and watched a few guys play video games for a while before they decided it was. In Kristen's words a dud. Not How she wanted to spend her Friday night. It was like Oh my God. This is such a dad like we are leaving. You know I gave Beers and that's what I'm saying like. We only had one beer when I left her. They went back to driving around in the truck truck for a while looking for a better party because it was Memorial Day weekend though a lot of students had left town to stay with their families and the parties were scant. That night was such chill night like it was such a quiet night in San Luis Obispo and it was just a couple of driving around trucks around town. I I'm pretty razer. Kristen was one isn't just dropped Margarita off here because we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA keep walking around we're going to keep walking around and pretty sure it's California and Foothill Khorasan then and Margarita walked around for a bit eventually ending up near the unofficial frat houses surrounding the cal poly campus where there had to be at least one party going on Margarita followed kristen into the parking lot of the Foothill Hacienda apartments at one ninety California Boulevard. Before she started to get tired of looking we were kind of in the parking lot and she kind of walked breaking over probably crandall and I was like No I'm cool. I have he and I was like I actually. I remember that very vividly. I'm like really have to egress in. And she's like just go here and a Bush is you know. Just go pee right here and I was like no I WANNA go back. I'm tired I I don't think there's any any parties like I don't think there's any parties and she's like well. Let's just tried this street. Let's just try this street and I was like I. I don't want to so I just I just. I just became my foot down and I just wanted to go back and She was like no. I'm just GONNA wind up this way and please please and we had this sort of like please no you please no you please. You know. But just like really quick Margaret. A really quick and I was like no Christian. I don't want to and I think she was so determined to find a party and I was so over it. She wanted to find that party and she was egging me. I'm begging me and I was like well as long as you get home safely so I gave her my key because I knew that by the time I walked back to the dorm it would the door still be open but if he took any longer the doors because it was like in the nicotine I like I remember rushing shing back and I. I'll never forget her shadow with against the harshly on the back wall partially on the on the dumpster the big dumpster trash can again and it was cool. I was like her shadow was just really tall and big and And that's one of my last memory. I'm going this way you're going this way. Here's the key by and use the pointed at me. I mean honestly like I think that's hard for me. She was angry she was angry. They didn't want to go with her but not angry to the point of life if the next day she would have probably been like. Oh you miss this great party. You know she wouldn't have been angry with me as in like I wanNA talk to you again again. It wasn't like that angrier. Not Margarita handed her room key to Kristen and turned and walked up Monte Vista Place Back Towards California Boulevard. Vard Kristen Walk The Opposite Direction to Foothill Boulevard towards crandall way. I left her by herself knowing that she he was not gonNa not GonNa go home until she tried. Every avenue define social outlet that night. She just wanted to have a social outlet that night and she was not going to give up that easily I gave up. She did not while she had no idea that it would be the last time she ever saw her friend guilt his weight on Margarita in the years since since I was a girl scout for many years. And you're supposed to use the buddy system and I just retired that night and and she didn't come back It didn't take kristen long defined the party. She was looking for a little after ten PM. Am just a tenth of a mile from where she split for Margarita. She walked into a birthday party being thrown by members of the Kappa Chi Fraternity for a senior named Ryan and swampy fell and his friend. Tom Gore at one thirty five crandall way and like a lot of people. I initially had the impression that kristen had been at a crazy. FRAT party with shirtless guys doing keg stands Dan punching each other in the face. But that's not exactly right about twenty people. Were invited to swampy fells party. That's his nickname. Swampy but several people filtered out like Kristen. What happened inside is a little hard to discern? The people who attended have been notoriously tight white lipped in the years since talking only to investigators in the immediate aftermath of the Party and never publicly part of the reason for this. Is that a lot of people. Present doesn't were members of Kappa Chi and college fraternities have a code of silence involving incidents that could get their charter revoked in two thousand and two sigma MCI pledged. Bryan Gillis died in Stinger Glenn apartment the same complex. That kristen lived during her first quarter at CAL poly GHB or Gamma hydroxybutyrate. Sometimes referred to as the date rape drug and the main ingredient in a concoction known as fade was found in his system which he was believed congested at a Sigma Chi Party the night before when his roommate found him. In the morning he is fixated on his own vomit. After the news broke members members of Sigma Chi. Drove up to Lake Nassem Ianto to have what they refer to as a roundtable discussion fueling speculation that they were trying to get their story straight as a way we to cover up their involvement cal poly Sigma Chi chapter lost. Its Charter. Four months later and was ordered to pay over three hundred fifty thousand dollars. As the result result a wrongful death suit filed by Brian's parents in December two thousand eight another cal poly freshman named Carson starkey died of alcohol poisoning and after a hazing incident by Sigma Alpha Epsilon before calling. Paramedics hours later fraternity members removed. Carson's pledge pin in an attempt attempt to hide their association when asked why charges took so long to be filed. The San Luis Obispo police chief blamed a lack of clear and open cooperation and by the fraternity throughout the investigation. Their charter was later. Suspended outside of that reasoning I've encountered a lot of hesitance. It's that I can't explain. Even when I reached out to party attendees who are not members of the Frat some of them blocked on social media and others tried to severely downplay play. How much of the Party? They could remember even though I only contacted them after hearing from their own friends that they had shared very vivid stories about being there since. The party is such an important detail and Kristen's case now I really want to talk to someone. Who was there so I'm not just trying to stitch together two or three unverifiable viable details? That have been rumored over the last twenty years. But how am I even get to find out. Who was there that night if none of them will ever talk? It's important to explain here. That Kristen's case has never been declared cold. Even though it's gone unsolved for twenty three years a cases cases only considered cold when law enforcement decides that. They've exhausted all of their leads early on in researching the story. I traveled to the San Luis Obispo Courthouse House to request any records on the case that I'm legally allowed to see and I find out pretty quickly that it's mostly a dead end because the investigation is still considered ongoing. Join an active. None of the documents are evidence or disclosable to the public. But what the clerk is able to give me. Essentially turns out to be a table of contents of of those nondisclosure items paperwork from previous legal effort to get a hold of these documents which I'll talk about in later episodes. The list is pretty insightful but incredibly frustrating to go through to see the titles of reports. I'm not allowed to read with descriptions like supplemental report regarding regarding underwear and memo regarding pizza cart on page seventeen. There's a list of initials that each read report of contact contact towards the top of the page is report of contact with our F- Ryan. Swampy fell after verifying the initials four other known attendees of the Party. Who mentioned a little later? I'm able to confirm that. This whole page is a list of people who are interviewed. In the aftermath of Christians disappearance terrence most of whom had seen her on the night of May twenty four and with the aid of social media. I start sifting through friend lists looking for matches to those initials double checking. Them was sites like Lincoln to confirm whether or not the people. I'm finding attended cal poly in Nineteen ninety-six and then each each time. I feel strongly that I've located another attendee using their friend list to search for more one of the easiest sets of initials to fill ELENA'S TB because Trevor Belcher came forward in twenty thirteen on an episode of true crime with Aphrodite Jones to say that he was at the party that night with his best friend Dominic who was a member of Kappa Chi. When the word gets out that I'm working on a documentary about this case I find out that Trevor Belcher and I actually we have a mutual friend in San Luis Obispo and she hooked me up with this phone number? Hey Trevor Cover You know I'll be. I'll be honest usually Nowadays I don't talk people Just 'cause I I told my story on but like I love podcast account and your friend of April. I'm happy to talk to you all give you the whole the whole scoop I really can't answer like the great questions like what what happened that night. So I do have like a certain level of a story that I think could be Importance you so your question for you right now being recorded yes okay is that okay. Do you want me to stop. No no totally fine. I mean I get it with With podcast so Why don't you tell me about what you what you're working on in? Maybe how I can help Aluminum the story for Ya. I let Trevor No not so subtly that my equipment for recording in person interviews is a lot fancier this year than my equipment for recording over the phone so come down to La. Just like that. I make a plan to drive down the following Thursday but I let him know. I know that I'm kind of surprised by his willingness to talk so openly after years of not talking and he's honest with me. He's had a few cocktails tonight but but he's still willing to commit to meet in person. You Know I. I'm just saying like if you WANNA come down and like hang out and like My daughter goes to get around. H each you know we could get we could just you know podcast and just you know you just ask you the questions and I'll I'll tell you but I just WanNa make sure that you understand my perspective on things so you can look i. I just want you to tell the right story right. I wanted to be the best. Your Angels Look. I think we'll have a great conversation interesting. You know and all I will about me and I. I won't be all the buzz well. He texts me his address. And I put it on my calendar. Great Talk New. Great meeting by by Trevor is important to the story not just because he can give me insight into what swampy fell party. Looked like and who else else was there but also because he talked to Kristen several times at the party the following Thursday. I'm driving on the Los Angeles freeway to Trevor's house in bumper to bumper traffic. My car broke down a week before. And while it's in the shop the only car available. The rent was a white twenty nineteen Mustang convertible. I'm a little embarrassed that this is going to be as first impression of me but it's it's better than postponing are meeting it when I pull up in front of his house. The car projects the lit up Mustang logo onto the street from my side view mirror. I'm not sure what the purpose of this feature is except to add insult to injury the Chris Harris Okay Cool. That's Oh cool. Thanks to meet you come on yeah. We sit down in his office which is covered in every type of Beatles memorabilia you can imagine records toys autographs and a series of giant wall panels that make up their faces. Trevor's Dog Fox an American ESKIMO Sits on the floor in front of him. You'll hear him panting every once in a while. Hi My name is Trevor Alter I am forty the three years old Fox. Let me know if this is gonNA drive you nuts. There's going to be problematic Would you lay down where it gets entertain entertain alright so dominated told me earlier days a hey were swamp. He's having his birthday party or having a small get together at the Crandall House and my memory serves me that I got there around ten ten fifteen in Christmas party there so they were. It wasn't a big party. Just continue with many people. Well when I walked in there I would think maybe there was more than like twelve or fifteen. I mean it was. It was not a lot and the most well at the most of the night were right around the time. When I last saw Christopher she went inside it's doubled? Or if not quadrupled so is between thirty and forty four hundred people. I remember there was a ton of people outside in the backyard. Fish would have been playing right. It would've been a lot of fish probably would have been grateful dead. It probably would have been Dave Matthews. I would think but definitely the that house is a big jam. House they liked the dead they liked. Fish wasn't your hits of the day it wasn't like you know Like Houdini blowfish. Oh fish wasn't the type or seal or no. It would be definitely like older brothers. Grateful dead fish primarily fish guys all all this to this day they all love fish. So that's that would have been what was playing yet when you walk into the Crandall House. There are two when you walked into the leftovers table. In case there's a pool table right there and then there was a little half bars like a bar and they're like two or three stool stool seats. I remember for sure. There's two seats or might have been three stools so I see my friends that are like hey do you want a beer and I think my memories that I had a budweiser I so I would have been sitting first stool and the dom sitting next to me so I walked in and I didn't even notice Kristen Right She walks over over. And this is exactly how this happens to. She walks over. She is wearing final shorts. She's wearing a midriff shirt. Obviously she's sperry very pretty. Okay she walks up to me. I think she might have said Hi. I'm roxy and I went high. And then she kisses me like full on the mouth help with Tom. mcfaul on kisses me and I'm like She grabs my hand and takes me to the bathroom and Mike. I'd heard stories of the crandall way bathroom. The like crazy crazy happens. Like Oh my God. Am I going to be one of those stories. I don't know who this girl is. Only guy not pulls me in their remember. It was dark for a second that she finds the lights and and she immediately walks over to the mirror starts smoothing out her makeup and she says do you think Gli no and then I started like looker occur and she's like the way she's like. Would you think I'm ugly. And I'm like no and I was starting to get more of a sense of who this girl was and I'm like okay. There's no shenanigans that are going on here and she goes okay. I have to go I. You gotta use the bathroom okay. And I'm like okay cool. I don't I don't even know how I got here. Trevor Thinks Chris only motivation for pulling him into the bathroom was to make another guy jealous almost as soon as the door had closed. She asked him who she should hook up with a tall basketball player. Who Trevor had been talking to when she approached him or another guy who didn't know at all? It's not what trevor was hoping for and he's not about to give up that easily. Why pick me right right? This is the first thing if she goes she goes yeah you know while she's doing her makeup and I'm like okay so Kristen's clearly not interested in doing anything more with trevor. According warning to him nothing else happened and Kristen kicked him out. After about a minute ago and I sit down with a stool and do what is going on vinyl chick. And that's the guys that part of your color vinyl chick. She was wearing vinyl shorts. Actually polyester most likely based on everything I've learned roxy quicksilver brand board shorts. It's not all that unusual for cal poly in May but the guys at the Party certainly noticed referring to them variously as vinyl nylon spandex bicycle bicycle shorts even a black skirt in early news reports much of the early investigation focused on Kristen's appearance and behavior at the party. Trevor had one more encounter with her before he left that night out in the backyard. She comes up again in there. I'll leave him alone. Leave Loan Roxie. And I'm like no no no. Please talk to me. And that's now she's like really like an e berated come back here and talk to me and she's like heats me. I'm like no no. She's referring to the basketball player who she apparently had had tried to flirt with but had been rebuffed by and then I said to her cheese dude. What is your sign right because I was in Australia Astrology Spaghetti? Forget twenty and Pisces Pisces. What's your birthday February twentieth? I go well Roxy. That's my birthday. I said we share the same birthday with Kurt. Cobaine really go. Yeah and then. She grabs me by my face. Grabs me rubbing Impulsively in for a kiss quick. Not a good kiss yes and it was the push back. I was like no no no. We don't we don't have to do that or so. And she goes Like another rejection. And she turns around walks up and she walks walks into the house last. Ever Sir Trevor Walks home around midnight stopping for a doughnut and pint of milk at donut. Stop in the California and Taff Plaza before getting back to his place on Toro Street around one. AM According to the list of investigative documents law enforcement interviewed Trevor on three separate occasions as recently as two thousand five. That's probably because they found his trip to the bathroom with Kristin a little suspicious and wanted to follow up on it or because like me. They found him willing to talk and eager to help from the parking lot where she separated from Margarita determined to find a party even if she had to go alone to the forward way. She introduced herself to Trevor. A picture starts to emerge for me me a picture of a girl who stuck in school that she doesn't feel like she belongs at a girl who introduces herself to everyone as Roxy. It's not really clear whether she borrowed that name from her stockton friend or from the Roxy quicksilver short. She was wearing that night. A girl who's freshman year is almost over. Who can't wait to be back in Hawaii and to find some way to transfer to a school on a tropical island and deal with at all? She's trying her hardest to be recognized to stand out from the crowd to break out of her shell to appear bold and confident even if she doesn't feel that way on the inside side it's definitely not the best night of her life but it's probably not the worst either. She just needs to get back to her dorm win. Swampy fells party comes to a close at around. Two A M. A group of students pours out of the front door to start walking back to campus. A freshman freshman named Cheryl Anderson has been ditched by a friend who was supposed to walk her back to her dorm. So another student named. Tim Davis offers to escort her while they're standing around in the front yard talking to friends. Tim Notices Kristen lying on the neighbor's lawn at one thirty seven Crandall Way and helps her to her feet. He tells her she needs to leave. But it's clear that kristen is very intoxicated now and unable to walk on her own. So Tim Tells Cheryl that they need to take. Hey Kristen back to her dorm. Two and the three of them head towards campus a little ways up the road a third student named Paul florus catches up to to them. He's also heading back to the red bricks and offers to help them wrapping an arm around Kristen's waste to hold her up from one thirty five crandall way the walk back to the dorms is about a half mile. It's the route you heard me walk in the beginning of this episode along campus way behind the health services building up via Carta and right on perimeter road. Tim Davis is car is parked in a campus lot. So he breaks with the group. Turn left on parameter Cheryl's dorm in the Sierra Madre Towers is down Grand Avenue so rather than walk up towards smear hall with Kristen and Paul. She asks him to make sure that kristen gets back to her room and says good night. Paul stops instead of the pathway of his his own dorm Santa Lucia Hall which is closer and watches. Kristen walk by herself. The forty or so yards up the path to Mir Hall and they both go to their respective rooms allowing at least. That's what he tells the police next You've been listening to your own backyard episode one face on a billboard. ooh Your own backyard is written produced and hosted by Chris Lambert Associate producer is Alexandra. Wallace special thanks to Dennis Man. Peter King Nicholas Wintry candice suspender plus Derek Payne Jamie Lewis Garin Sinclair Sandy. Arnold April Wurley. Carry Quimby Senate Elissa. Brigham Ceylan Pope Sydney Bryant Lydia de Janeiro Dallas Bronson Giovanna Nicola and Matthew Frank. If you feel that you have information that could help law enforcement with their investigation. You can directly contact. San Luis Obispo Sheriff's Detectives at Eight. Oh five seventy one forty five hundred WanNa reach out directly send an email to your own backyard. PODCAST AT G MAIL DOT COM or visit our website at your OWN BACKYARD PODCAST DOT COM to keep up with new episodes. Subscribe to your own backyard on Apple podcasts and follow us on facebook or instagram. Original Music is by Chris. Lambert they WANNA help keep Kristen's memory alive you can donate to the Kristin Smart Scholarship at Kristin smart dot org or by shopping at Smile Doc. EMMA'S ON DOT com and selecting the charity justice for Kristen How do you feel about this? This is a little bit of an invasion no L. because We've done many interviews in this room. And usually we have the television people arrive and then they had to reorganize our room so this is less intrusive just doing an audio etc etc so now. I'm comfortable with that and I think you're doing a fine job and we really appreciate what you're doing it'd be happy to help you can. Yeah it's interesting having a young person like yourself doing yes so.