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Ranking the Most Dramatic Seasons Ever, Part 2 | Bachelor Party


Hey Kelly and welcome to the ringer podcast network. As the year comes to a close our staff is writing about our favorite sports moments of two thousand nineteen. Jason Concepcion explains the year ten pieces of pop culture and we break down the last ten years of the Marvel Universe also ahead of the New Star Wars movie coming out next week the staffs discussing baby yoga rise skywalker. Romances and what the resistance will do if they win. You can check this all out on the ring dot com with the Bachelor Party. I'm Juliet Lemon is the second installment of the most dramatic season ever countdown. We're talking numbers thirty to twenty one today and I am joined Bachelor Story and Amy Coffin the La Times. Hi Amy. Hi Juliet Second Time parents for you. Welcome back very excited. You Red Book about the Bachelor called Bachelor nation. I did it feels like ancient history already. It's like what two years ago. Yeah it was like came out right when Ari season ended team. What a Boring Susan Yearbook didn't suffer for not covering all right did a cover Ari I? I wrote like for the paper back and update and he was an but yeah it was actually good that it came out right at the end of that. 'cause Ariz ending was very dramatic. Yes we haven't got him in the Canton yet perhaps hit him today. How much do you think like one killer moment should like wait in the assessing of a bachelor season versus like just steady drama? The whole time because season obviously sucked except for the break up of backup which is like honestly somebody. I'll never get over see like I. It does and hold that much weight for me because I like as I think we've talked about like I watch this every week with my friends. And so it's like I hear everyone bitching about when it's really boring or crappy and then like I feel like because of spoiler culture talk to you know the big moment that's GonNa come and so it's not as fun as it was back in. The Jason Resnick Day. They kept Ariz drama secret better than Colton fence. Jump I think definitely jump up on the spoilers repeater season. No and do not go there. Peter is I don't know either I don't I'm trying to avoid them at all your on Teen Peter Peter Right. Oh Yeah I am. I haven't been this excited about doing to. Also everyone says it's really good rob here is that it was really good. I always as it's good right. Yeah his is in executive but even off off the MIC. He said it was really good. Good I heard from Becca antilock or that. It's really good. I heard it's a great season so I'm excited. I'm Oh my God looks so hot in the Promo with like really high. Listen I get. That people wanted Mike to be it and that would have been important. Not just for the record. I don't think Mike would have been a good bachelor. Because of his personality falls in love with whoever's in front of him or whatever I know it just didn't find compelling similarly. I never want to Blake's me bachelor either which confronted him about got faster face like somehow baco. It was weird. It was great. I've still on team Blake. He's made a lot of mistakes but he's a really sweet guy. But I'm you even said as the number one tyler tyler stand. Tyler couldn't have been the battle definitely not thank you. I am the number one tyler. Stand always in forever Olympic Mass. That's on Your Business Card. Yeah exactly yeah he would have been about actually. But I'm super super excited about Peter and I think that I'm glad you asked us because I just want to remind everyone that point. This countdown is not like. Who's your favorite because my favorite tyler? My favorite his dad like those are my two dude. I Love Knack to. He's a great guy and mixed breath. Yeah but this is not just about like do you like the lead. Because I like plenty of lead it's like it's about onto the drama like the most compelling like seasons and that's what I've been trying to do here not factor is so you would say you're doing a comprehensive of the season. Not like the moment yes okay but I do think like I tried to wait it. You know so I base it on a bunch of different factors that are the lead the drama the winner the villain locations and like it's kind of like general impact and that was kind of how I was thinking about it when I was doing. This ranking being in so very academic and Nelson fix this shot up to my colleague Andrew Guerrero for help me at this. He's like a master of rankings. And I I do think doc though like in the case of someone like Ari who has like a landmark event in their season like the impact is like ten out of ten you know even and then he did have a lot of good women on it like I think baby Becca was worth a lot. You follow her. Oh I think that she and her ause. I guess they're not gonNA gauge. Whatever her baby daddy are so hot I do follow them? He's cute. Yeah like not myself but tyler. so He's more of like a Jesus my but I just I you're right. I do like Becker but that doesn't matter because she was off pretty soon. I feel like she was on a lot. But anyway. That's just sort of thinking that goes into it you know so. Let's get into two left off. At number thirty Lorenzo Borges who is the Italian bachelor had never been deadly and today clock and number thirty we got genshaft the I last Bachelorette Jan was third bachelorette which came out in January. Doesn't four her finale at eight point. Three seven million viewers which I think is now viewed as a low number are however or at the time it was right but now it's pretty good and that would be the yeah now. The highest is like seven for a Bachelorette. I think Hannah got got into the eighth. and that was like a male damn exactly genshaft is the original Bradwell Mac and then she did not accept a proposal. They did it in a really weird way on the show which was at the end of the finale. This one Guy John Paul proposed and she rejected it. And then this other Guy Jerry proposed then. She had to wait eight to reveal if she was accepting the proposal or not until the live after show so he was kind of like how survivor does like now. The vote has culminated and then Jeff Jeff probst has they come straight up from the island into the live finale but really I mean obviously her and Jerry had spoken and she rejected him as well and she was just like. NAH Nah I don't want either of you and she'd been burned. She had one Andrew firestone season. They broke up. I kind of like live for her. She was one of my favorite voice. Vote during the book is like she's an og feminist like like. She was recalling all that I think she said she got a lot of backlash for breaking up with Andrew. firestone yeah as everyone was like he's so rich and he's like the air to tire fortune. Yeah what's wrong with you. That you could keep that like amazing specimen of a man and then she rejected both of the dudes on her season and she was like that was very very much the time of the bachelor and the Bachelorette where they like were hardcore into the fairytale narrative. And Yeah and it's interesting that you say that. Because she after her season there was an abrupt break AAC for like four years right and people were really mean to hurt their like genshaft most boring bouncer at ever ruined the shell and I stopped doing it right and then we what were you saying about. Let her absence from the Bachelorette reunion last year so she last year for four hundred season for the fifteenth season they did a reunion And everyone's there except for Phillips who we'll talk about shortly and genshaft and it was kind of fishy. Some stories came out regarding meredith which will begin to but she claims that she was baseless actually assaulted by a masseuse during her season and Jen wasn't there either and people were wondering about Balakrishnan. By dead she went on reality podcasts and explained that she was invited but she's she's had family vacation and didn't want to miss vacation was bombed not at the reunion so I don't think she holds hard feelings but she's definitely unlike a weird place I think she has a lot of name recognition but like yeah. If you are walking on the street you probably wouldn't be like Oh my God genshaft the third Bachelorette now. I live for like those types of people who've actually managed to move on and are like Mary kids and I think she lives in Lake Chicago like you know. Her name is yen chef waterman now exactly. Yeah but she's where did you meet her in. La I just put on the phone gotTA But yeah I I thinks she seems like pretty unscathed for how much time she actually spent on television. And what a bit. I think she wanted Oprah and did all that like I'll I'll say sh- her season was in two thousand four and and she was on. Andrew firestone was march three so it was a pretty compressed time that she was filming but then as a result she was like in the consciousness for like eighteen months. kind of like Han them. Yes yes yes actually like Canada who I would not say has come out unscathed but do not wanna like. I just want to like help Hannah. My advice is to move to like San Diego. Don't live away if you want to be in California or like I just don't I don't think I have a question about this. The couples who live in San us. We have like crystal stole and goose. Yes and like basically Jaden. Tanner and Do Becca Bekka and Becker. It live somewhere else and like do you think that actually makes a different issue. I do think it makes a difference because I think here every night of the week. There's like some sponsor event you could go to or go to a club or like there's just a lot more people around and and I just think I mean you know we both live in La. There's like pressure to like do staff look someway be cool like all this stuff and I think if you even get a little bit of a removed from it. It's really helpful. I someone from very recent season the other night at a music event in L. A.. And it made me so sad. It was just like clearly people take every opportunity they can get. They're getting like thrown. Who knows like what substances at them? Like if the look really good all the time I was just like you're right. You need them. Remove yourself from it. I think yeah I think you need a little bit of distance but it seems like John figured out she just some great facts about her season so hers is a base in New York mark. which is the fascinating? I kind of forgot. There's a bunch of seasons that are based in New York hers. Charlie O'CONNELL like we'll talk about him by the way that it's so annoying that you can't watch old seasons so annoying and I. I have tried really hard. I will say thank you particularly. People like reality Steve who think star recapping around the time of genshaft. Your recaps have been really helpful for my research. I really appreciate it and I see all of you. People Particularly Reality Steve who've been doing this for fucking long right. You've been in the trenches. Why what is Rob Mills are? Are those kind of people. Say about why it's Robert. ABC which is not owned the bachelor own you know I think they just know the value of their Ip either trying to figure out where to put things so we actually rob. I discussed this last week. Hbo Max is has a deal. Must born a horizon for some part of the Cadillac blog. I don't know what they're putting up but I will say. Many of these seasons are super boring. They should it would be fun to us fun to like dip into them. I would love to watch like one. I I basically would like to watch the tell all the overnight in the finale of every single season a lot of in probably how long you get a lot of good info that way. Because I've gone back and watch Gotcha tell us and the full of BS fighting. Yeah but you still highlights. It's if if you haven't been watching the whole season actually really helpful and I I would skip episode episode to personally won. I think is like a brilliant alone. Yeah so I would want to overnights well until all and finale molly and like let's just put those up but I think Warner knows. This is really valuable. It's like one of the reasons why doing live show like it's just really really valuable. Ip and they just don't want to give a bit away anywhere. I don't know I feel about that. I feel like they didn't realize it was valuable tool recently. Obviously because they're trying to do the live show and all that we'd be going to the live show. I'm sure it won't be invited to the live show. Perhaps I'll buy a ticket with my friends. Or maybe like from the favorite you'll be going Maybe I consider love. It's Benny H yeah. I love man. I where the L. A. Dignity Theater Ace hotel. Oh that's a big location. Yeah it's really Awesome Person Theater Benza. Great Guy and a really good friend so I want support him so I'll go for that anyway I Love Julius casually like Taylor van. I love both them. Attracted to decide to befriend them. Because I because we will never date Jen's season was in in New York and she did some engagement shopping at Harry Winston with her friends which was super. I love the Premium Lane Winston me too I would definitely rather have aaronson insist ring right but I guess they were worth way less. If you look back yes they wouldn't give like big bucks brings like nailing does or yeah now even though they don't don't always look expensive. Yeah I know I just back as this is actually the previous pod from last Thursday guests go check it out. Hurrying gorgeous absolutely stunning and like looks really Nice on her hand and I recommend it or something. I don't know really nice rain. which like normal people can never afford whatever I just WANNA say? I don't WANNA blame genshaft. I think there's a lot of sexism and blaming her for being like a bad season and like messing up the Bachelorette because then it was off and then it came back with Deanna Several years later. Got Jonah Soga. Yeah she's awesome. And she's like a pillar of the franchise chaz spoiler. We're not talking about her today. But genshaft we appreciate you and I'm just glad there's no beef between her. And the franchise I gotcha Steve's pod to clarify hi. Yeah Yeah Live your life genshaft. We're glad doing well. Yeah next number. Twenty nine Dr Andy Baldwin. I have deep dislike randy but I think a lot. The people hate Dr Andy Baldwin. In fact I was reading the Old recaps of my pal and my boss's wife. The Sports Gal Carry Simmons and she really hated Dr Eighty. They're awesome really funny. RECAPS French okay. So many things about him. I see this bro On bumble all the time you do. I think I have a screen shot somewhere. Lamar could he be paid bumble as is in with deep so no. It's it's you can tell because like us on a reality star you see like a real real world or you know his normal and a lot of like. We're like references to navy stuff. Yeah see well. That's a good segue Dr Andy Baldwin was a navy do we Dr. I'm GonNa say you've got some impressive facts about him. He went to Duke for Undergrad and UCSF MED school which is like incredibly on paper. I would really I like that. I know me too. That's why bright on bumble Duke and UCSF. I feel like a short now. He's now he's over six feet. I swear I looked it up. All right Dr Andy Baldwin premiered on April second two thousand seven. He ended up selecting Tessa Horse to was a social worker. Also like an impressive pedigree she went to DDS Georgetown Day school and then Middlebury College She was a social now the Columbia. I don't want a in person at some time. I feel like they don't have people from Middlebury on the show very much anymore careers just a matter more. I think even more than where she went to college she was working social social work. Do you think that is because I think now being on the show is the career in this used to be more like a fun adventure that you could try to. This was in two thousand and seven. I mean like even that was still like early days you know and so I think people are just like it was sort of like the way now people quit their jobs and go South East Asia for three months. It was like I'm going to quit my job and go on the bachelor right and then see what happens. Next you know very wasn't like I'm going to quit my job or I'm never going to get a job. I'm going to go into the bachelor and continue to have a job. You know it's different so I I don't know just a different time Dr Baldwin's got like all the on paper Kratz. But he sucked. Because then he's talked. I think he was really annoying. One like one thing that I got also sounds like he was into his triathlons and that was kind of it. He is someone who definitely I do. Cross fit right like for sure for wash your. He also just think all you need to know about him is that after the show one year later he dated Marla Maples who was about ten years his senior. They melander melander they date. They attended an episode of dancing with the stars together. And like we're like where do we were together. Like legit the mother. Tiffany trump was his girlfriend at one time so he and his his middlebury check it. He didn't last very long now. They broke up pretty quickly I'm trying to find that Andy thing for you but I can't. They called it their engagement. One month after the show ended and his runner up was named Beverly Nicole Powers Bevan. which is the name character once you hell? In fact there was a bevan. Bevan broke her ankle during boot camp challenge and which was like military theme they had to feel with all the military stuff it makes sense. You know they went to Pearl Harbor for the overnight dates he did live there. But so what do you mean like. They didn't Hotel Pearl Harbor Day. Went to Hawaii they went. They went away but they didn't Pearl Harbor and one of the dates. I believe that was with Tasse who ended up winning the biggest this drama this season was a woman named amber allow shabby was on the show and she got her boss fired. Because you twenty the teacher and showed a twenty two day leave and didn't tell the boss where she was going and didn't come back afterwards and then the Boston allowed it so it was like S. Yeah it was all a whole mass which speaks to the career thing thing like the biggest drama religious at all was the fact that it was like someone abandoning their career which is just unheard of at this point okay. Well I've been trying to find this message for you but I'm just going to recall it from mad so the reason that I have a thing with Andy Baldwin is because obviously for the book. I tried to talk to all the Bachelors Right of course and I sent any Baldwin the facebook message and I asked if I could interview them and he wrote back. The SAS hissed messages. That were like doc. They've already like he's like give me a copy of your book. Prophets dental talk to you and I was like I was like I'm really sorry like I can't pay for interviews but journalism right and he was like will you pony up and I'll spill all. He's like they've already taken enough from me like it was really like it made it sound like he had a Lotta. That's something crispy us to be like. Before his Weird Revival in Paradise Chris Bukowski member show I do and I have had yet remember when he said he would never ever go on again. And I was like Bro. What changed his mind just the money or wanting the attention? I don't know I think it's like I mean not to get too dark. I I really think it's like those when you've gone on that many times like there is something inside you that is seeking that kind of validation attention. Yeah that you cannot move move past like he and he was protesting. He seems so self aware about an longtime like he was like. I was trying to fix my reputation. I did that in a failed way. Numerous times to be like publicly acknowledged that then to go back on. It was so I was really weird and also like wasn't discussed or whatever. He didn't seem to acknowledge it because he came across fine. Obviously Tesla Katy probably lasted like a little bit longer. They needed to for some sponsorship. would be my guess. But I don't know I also just want to note. This was the first season they introduced the the first impression rose. ooh It took all the way to season ten for the first impression rose to make to to land into the Canon of what the show is to that like the first impression. Russian rose For Women it's really telling for men laso. I do like it. It adds allow me what you think. It's more telling the men give it out the when the women give it out. I think I think it is more telling usually very often end up like the final two writing that Um yeah like I. I think it's good to have some competition on night ones. There's some drums and yeah explain like a smart strategic. It's hard to imagine that that strategically wasn't there before. Yeah now that's the thing and Robin I discuss too when you go back and you just like go over what happened and all these Seasons there were so much trial and error and some throwing shit at the wall and like seeing how it would go like. Obviously they tried New York Times before they figured out like no we should always be in. La like here's the the formula whatever so or you know a trip to Pearl Harbor. Who who's to say dodger Andy Baldwin? No one liked you. We will not by the way also not even that hot in my opinion. He's kind of like clean cut. Yeah he's in the navy he's kind of like a desirable attainable to me like he's not actually attainable. But he seems like he could be I. I think there's a lot of people on the show who are above average attractive but below average for people on TV. Back in like Andy's Day for sure if anyone listening has has gone on a date with Andy Baldwin please get about it. Yeah we'll we'll report back number twenty eight desert heart sock she premiered. I may twenty seventh twenty thirteen. I had very low expectations for her and they remained low throughout her season. She We'll discuss at two Chris To get to sean low but the thing. It's like most interesting about her. There's two things one was when she was on Sean season. Her brother completely ruined her. Chances are the worst hometown. Ever it was a conic. Save it. We'll get there and then she got dumped don't by Brooks who she really really wanted to choose also iconic also on bumble he is yes my pride on that one gentleman we didn't didn't match I don't know why Brooks Not in paradise this summer. He was supposed to show up there. Oh I hear okay. Here's the thing about this. I have a soft spot for her because I feel I feel bad for her like I think we I heard you say this with rob and I totally agree. The people that I think are probably chill and funding out within life are not good. TV totally like it. Doesn't I think she's perfectly nice. She's probably a really good person but like sure. It was bland AF until that doc date which incredible absolutely incredible. It was it Antigua. Were they want for the finale. She was GONNA pick him. She was so much more into books than anyone else. It was just like going with emotions. She was like set to pick. This Guy Brooks four orser go back to Utah have a nice life. And then he's just like no I'm not feeling it. And he dumped her. And I think even with Ashley I in this world the most upsetting heart-wrenching heart-wrenching ugliest cry in the history of the bachelor was Das- being dumped by it was so authentic it was like that break felt Israel as the Peter and Rachel one. Those two were the the most sort of intense and I really like response but what has been interesting about death and I get why she's doing this. Obviously and this is like a thing about the bachelor like she's. He's made it work with Chris. That's the guy ended up with two kids Seattle. These yappy only been on a lot of reality shows include like marriage bouquet. That's because they get so much money for that show they they. They all can save up to fifty K.. Or something really four weeks. I'm like that it's a lot like. Jj did it like people who aren't even like Jj Lane. Yeah Oh my God I am so oh but yeah like. I don't know if it's actually gate. Let's just you know a lot of six figures. Dez Lake. She made it work with Chris and I feel like she has hardcore clearly like doubled down on the fact that the editing sort of made it look like she's so in love with Brooks and like she was GonNa Pick Chris Anyway and it's like okay baby girl but like there's no way gator aid and don't you think like yeah sh you can. Maybe that's maybe this is like what the point into the show is is that you shouldn't pick the person you're wildly attracted to. You should be picking the more practical like quantum boring China. I think that's the mistake that many of the men make is that they pick the one that they're more contract that you and that it doesn't work out hundred. It's sort of funny. When that's not the case with Aryan Lauren? Like obviously was just really attracted to her too and then that was a person he pixel. I'm glad he courts corrected but yeah she you know the there is like the wild chemistry and then there's the person that actually make sense like think about long term. I think if they were a little little bit older and older like you know the leads they probably would have more dating experience to recognize that. But you know Das- was in her mid twenties I think she was twenty sex when she was the Bachelorette so I don't know it was it still. They had some good locations. Though by this time isn't it was Twenty thirteen they were like deep into knowing how to we do a show and kind of like core bachelor seasons. They went to Antigua Munich. Barcelona in Madera Madera Really Nice based on the sheet did look Nice you. Yeah it's funny. How you for life? There's certain places that are just sleep bachelor's about exactly yeah even actually does used to work at panache bride and every time I pass that I'm like what what up girl she was living in l. a. does yeah and then they have like yeah she she was she seemed like someone I would like totally considering bruns with a lot of weird dates on this season early. Oh I think it was episode two. Maybe three soldier boy appears and it was like. Oh my God do rhapsody yeah. They'd made his uncle the right reasons. It was so embarrassing. Are saying like a kind of loved that actually. I think it was like fun. Yeah but so embarrassing. But like a good gimmick also Darius Rucker Andy Grammer on this season uh-huh insane at the time we were Cooler Day. I know Andy Grammer for sure. Yeah then he's got an upward trajectory ever since the weirdest happened on this season though is they go to Atlantic City for a post hurricane. Sandy date and it's really weird bad again. Yes they go to hurricanes to go to Atlantic city like a few months after Hurricane Hurricane Sandy. It's really weird. That actually was such an emotional date. I guess because what happens is that it's a group day and there's one winner of the day who lives like irrelevant and instead head of enjoying like the the night together they give it to a couple whose home had been ruined hurricane sandy so it was really moving in Sweden and then they all get to enjoy the older older couple. Yeah it was But just kind of weird. They did that like maybe pick a different location. Where you get a trade back like I don't trade or what's called trade back right yes I I don't get it but let me does a great example? What you're talking about earlier like the one iconic moment could not save that season how it could also I feel like Brooks? I don't know Berkshire sort of like he tried to be a thing but I think his heart wasn't in it. He just weird. Oh I don't know what does now. 'cause he he went to crystalline goose's wedding. I'm pretty sure but then did not and in paradise I mean. I wish that he's hasn't he been on paradise before was on time which I had forgotten about until doing my research for this project. Is it bad that I still. I just wish none of them would go on paradise like I'm Drowning Tyler in paradise. I know it's going to happen. I'm just dreading it if you have any power in your friendship. Come on like an agent at a real agency. Now is W. M. E. Pitch. They are not letting him go on Paradise. I don't know it's hard to control the Tyler. Be The most most if so he will absolutely be the most highly papers and he's ever gone on right. Probably okay okay. Sorry sorry what did you say. May I guess what who you go with four. Yeah I don't know my sob something from Peter Season neutral a new girl. 'cause I I don't know based on gee-gee and the other growth that's January Jichi Janet and Jenner whose the girl center Jason. Yes Avenue the Kardashians. He likes blonde with long hair. So I can't think of any of the top of my head right now. That are that are tyler level. But I don't know it's just going to be a downward declined for him in terms of fame proximity I now tyler. Don't if you're listening snared is literally do not go. I know you think it's worth it. It's not to not do it. Does I hope you're happy. I hope they didn't watch the show back together. I'm sure they did but like how do you live at. How're you Chris? And you're like well now he's had to live with this brooks shot to crossing in the world. Seems like a guy like a guy he seems like a great great guy right though I hadn't happened with Brooks like we wouldn't have anything against Chris now and in fact they'd be even lower in this countdown. We'd probably thirty five. What do you think think is more boring? BECCA coup friend or does BECCA. I agree charcoal desks for your book. I did how is she. She's really nice. Yeah and again talking all about how you know. The Brooks thing was hyped up interesting think also pro. Maybe there's degree true but also you have to say it. Save your currently afraid afraid. Of course you're married to the guy. Yeah now two kids. She doesn't have bad feelings. She's always on like specials and staff. She's feeling a lot of these people. I think the women and men who find their spouse to the show love the show. Thank you don't love it but thankful they recognize. How could you not? Yeah but like at the same time were were they offered a TV show wedding now because it'll be what he was like They don't do weddings anymore. Now by the way but at the time yeah number twenty. Seven Meredith Phillips Susan into this is a complicated one and I'll just go quickly. She came in third on Bob Season people really clamored for her to be the Bachelorette after that she second after Trista Her finale had thirteen million viewers. She was the Bachelorette doesn't four. She selected indicated for a month they broke up notably. The men's mansion was in Beverly Hills which is interesting thing and most importantly meredith was not at the reunion and around that time it also came out that she's alleged that of female masseuse basically. It's actually assaulted her with like groped her essentially while she while she's on the show and you know. I think this is like a good opportunity to just talk about some of the like really darker aspects of the Bachelor. And you know you discuss in your book and it's something that is is hard to grapple with when you're fan of the show and you're so a mess Chin like that and like the bachelor we're all does. Both of us are as both bands and people in the media. But like there's a lot of people who have really the stories about having been on the show meredith most notably. She also has said since that while she was the Bachelorette that she was battling them and that was during the time where there was just like really free flowing out right and so many of them have been open about like jillions ourselves on the show got a nose it was dropped like it's really affected their self image. I mean I can't I honestly. I saw video of myself on twitter today. It was like just horrified as God can't imagine what it's like to be the Bachelorette or the bachelor after but I. I think Meredith case also has particular uncomfortable. Because it's like well what she did she choose. She says she wasn't invited to the reunion. And like if that's the case that's is really messed up like you know why the one person who is speaking about the difficulty. She had then not be like welcome back. That's absolutely messed up. Yeah it's like it's pretty terrible and like I have so many more questions about it. I also think that Meredith herself has Chide condensers from the franchise probably for her own mental health especially that's what she suffered when she was the Bachelorette and I think it's just a really necessary reminder that there is a lot of really negative stories out there from people who've you've been through the system and that it's not just Karan and Mario couple years ago there's like from the inception yes absolutely. Yeah and like I mean. I don't know you feel about this like you're saying we're both obviously huge fans of the show and I even row and like the paperback version of the book. Like that. I was beginning to break up with the show. Because it was like after that spate of so many it was like Lincoln and Garrett and like the Bachelor in Paradise Scandal and like so many in the Ra as sort of like exploitative break-up being filmed and I was just like this is too much like this. I don't like the vibe that this has yeah And then unlike tyler there's something fine but I love it and also had a season was pretty redemptive and just the way that she was able to call the shots and I think that she's he's been through a lot in terms of dealing with fame but I don't think it's necessarily because of shows like inherently bad so much as like famous just really worser world right. Yeah I mean I'm just saying a a hundred percent feeling very conflicted I mean honestly like even last week when as listen to your podcast and like rob was talking about Mike Fleiss and his name came up. I was like are we just like like yeah earlier this year this dude was like basically I mean. He's his reconciled. Yes life accused him of Ah here downstairs and asking your abortion right. And then she got a financial settlement which was like many millions of dollars and then tweeted. She tweeted that they're trying to work things out right which like. I hope that is true and I wish her all the best but I just I don't know it's so odd. How these big really really like disturbing things happen? And maybe because there's so many of them honestly in the franchise that we kind of just like all right we'll onto the next and it's like is that okay. I don't know I don't know either and I also think you know. Even cancelling the Bachelorette but not the bachelor for a few seasons is also really like sexist Yup and the bachelorette gets worse ratings than I think it. I don't know this for sure but I've always thought that has lower budget and you know there's there's inherent sexism and I think meredith season. How is it an important reminder that there's it's not all good it's not always all right and I think meredith season was absolutely like from what I can gather during a time when they played a lot Loser With the rules on sat lake by all accounts there was like drinking between the crew and the cast together and it was much more of like a party environment and this was prior to one Madison. She'd struggled with drinking after the show. And so like that. All I'm sure fed into the emotional experience of it and everything. Yeah totally yeah and maybe like why. You wouldn't have said something about that. The salt at the time if it did happen. Yeah and it's you know. I wish meredith the best and I just think it's really shitty that she wasn't invited to the reunion if that's true. Yeah let's get to the bottom of that definitely. We'll talk more about the bachelor but versus talk about stay sponsor. It's holiday party season. 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Sean was total surprise for me. 'cause going into it like Lulu like literal white bread like so bland like this whole born again virgin urgent thing like okay boy but then then he like goes with the interracial Pecu- Lake is still in a relationship. They've about to have three kids like success story. He also kind of like SAS other bachelors and speak out against the franchise. Like he's not muzzled yet. I I think he got one of the words that it's possible awesome or he was uncomfortable on television because he seems to have actually a great personality and like really fine and like a pretty unique dude but it just made him seem like this white bread Christian guy like a CIO radio type of like a Christian football player from the south or from Texas and those a huge disservice to him because he clearly is more interesting than that which we've learned since but his season itself like the most most of the drama came from the fighting Sierra. Do you remember her. She's in her sparkle. She and Ashley had a really big fight. I believe they were in saint cry for that and his sister had been there that day and like he went to go like get TRS historic could. This is how they made him for the editing so sister circuit meet her and assess like if she was there for reasons or not and when he arrived like Ashley and Tiara had like this. Knock down fight and I don't like a villain like tear like that's not particularly the fun to me or she's just like there's a lot of cat-fighting yeah and like this insider craziness but Ashley and Tiara were kind of like the two tiers like nowhere to be found by the way really really. Do you look for her for her. She's I don't know what's I don't know where she is knowing and find her. Yes I actually was like interior organizer organizer professional organizer and after. She's on the show. I tried to get her to come to the grantland office to organize and she never got back to me a roo. Ashley Frazier She. I just liked her more more than I dislike Tiara. She was the real villain to me. She was just like talk. She killing this man she can prepare. Sean is but she's got her. I liked her after the fact though. Yeah she seems like she's like like glare but Shawn. He got a lot a shirtless shock a lot. I never found attractive but I didn't find him attractive name. Yeah his face is it's like I think it's the really blindness better now. Actually their kids are durable. Yeah they're really cute. She's beautiful beyond. I love her I think because has she's so cool me too. He made a good pick. That's true in real life too like when a guy has a wife that you're like Great Pac man that guy more. I've always like nick vile because the women. He likes her so cool. Yeah I agree. He doesn't like he doesn't like a cool check right definitely true other material as you alluded to it was like. They're mad at her but her eyebrows. And how would raise one. They were very skinny. During the era of the very thinned-out eyebrow right and it was just the whole weird things like that was kind of started playing with like The raccoon thing like like little show means uh-huh they would always zoom in on her face and stuff. The way. Claire Stuff started railing. Yeah the runner up of the season was named Lindsay. Enter and Lindsey right right now those different Lindsay on the season she's se. Why don't remember this girl? Larry barely spoke like I. I couldn't tell you what her voice out like. She was like barely on the show but she had one canonic move. which was the second? Sean told her that he wasn't picking her. They were in Thailand. She was all glommed up. She took off her shoes and took off her heels and walked off holding her heels in the crying said nothing and she was like crying. She talked to the camera after she was Super Salty. She got interesting the second she got voted off but I remember the image of her holding her shoes. And I'm I'm just like you can't longer. I will not suffer this pain longer than a half do props to that it does suck this has been. We've covered this quite a bit. But it does suck to not be chosen. And like in some remote far-flung location still having to be there like with production years. Thought get me out of here right and like probably literally locked in your hotel room to you. Can't like really one of my our. I always have the exit strategy like I don't I've never gone or or like a cruise for any reason. Yeah I don't like feeling trapped. I need to be able to leave and like this would be my absolute nightmare. I just cannot. Even I cannot imagine imagine maybe Lindsay still trapped on hotel room somewhere. I really really hope. Not The tagline for the season was a nice guy will finish I. It was Kinda good I think sean was also one of the early when he didn't necessarily have an identifiable job. Now he's he didn't he was bit. Dallas businessman was right remember he was like trying and to do something insurance or something is dad did and he didn't really want to. Yeah that's right. Yeah they went to Lake Louise. Whitefish Montana Saint Croix Thailand. I'm pretty good but he also was clearly not the first pick for Bachelor. It was rumored that they also try to get empty boat. which was never what never going to happen? I mean I guess they wanted the Virgin for the season. I don't know now. And the other person they tried to get us before that was anti virginal. I think bent on IT GONNA literally sex in the ocean. Yeah I think. That's correct also rumored for this bachelor season was report. Oh rally season which would have been left. I loved Roberto too and he also. He is similar to Chris so they didn't. They didn't make it work. He had some good contestants. There Herron who was on paradise. She's signed yes. Everyone's has really good things about Salma who I I across Harrison went on a few dates with way back when who Salma shoes I dunno leashes Persian okay And my personal faith Leslie Murphy. With whom he had the he leslie now. Shares with Sean. The Guinness Book World Record for the longest onscreen kits from one of their dates. Lucky them love Leslie Murphy. She's fantastic okay. uh-huh Next Number Twenty five Andrew firestone about Andrew. Free Boring you I liked. It was the most kind of like name person. Yes us and he was the third Bachelor It was in two thousand and three. He did pick genshaft innate. They dated but then they broke up like Charlie we had a winery yes he the and unused obviously from the tire family right and it just like. Oh that sounds like okay I. I thought it was really exploring him. Because he's still very much in the mix like if you want to interview Andrew Firestone you can Andrew firestone is also another one where I don't I don't like that's kind of Kazak. Ephron type of like I don't like that kind of look. Yeah so like her looks like he should be in an ethics movie as Prince. Oh my God that is so true. Thanks yes yes. It was like sculpted in John's out. Right right yeah his season like there's very little notable about it. I think because it was early on it was like less like slightly less boring than Erin and Alex show but like like just really not that no worthy. But it's so interesting that they kind of like are they started out with like the educated like he's an everyman but he's a little bit Elevated then they get like more athletic sports guy with Erin and then they go sort of like we need a wealthy lay. Yeah you know well I think Andrew firestone came along around the same time as like Joe Millionaire Ryan went sort of like spot. The rich guy became part of the genre of reality TV. It's really fascinating. How much does stuff has changed like what is now desirable in reality? What is considered reality right and I think someone like casually rich like Andrew firestone and Lorenzo was was very appealing of the bachelor? 'cause it was like someone who would ha who could like hit all sort of very superficial cigna fires of wealth but then also like become live a regular person that you're trying to date and those things don't really matter as much anymore totally in reality me in general not just the bachelor like looking at Peter This season I think people color so impressed that he has a real job. I'm so impressed. We'll stat pilot. which is a great job but like okay? He's a pilot like we're you know like Andrew firestone used to be the bachelor yeah so so different. I know it really is yes. Let's move on to a personal faith number twenty four Charlie O'CONNELL season seven brother Jerry. O'CONNELL kind of an actor. I'll give give them some credit but like kind of whatever he was on March twenty eight th two thousand five. It was a New York season. The women lived in a loft in tribeca. Oh Damn Trendy. They had like a cell phone that factored into some drama. Where basically one point? Charlie called one of the women they. They're kind of like cell phones and so they call. They had one into us to experiment the day card so instead of a knock on the card somehow they had a cell phone. Charlie early called to tell one of the women I believe it was. Can they had a date and then later on Kim never came home from the date like she hated his place really late and so they then and just like hit re re dial on the phone just the early days a cell phone. That's very I think about to like. Get in touch with him and he answered. It was so staged aged but just a really funny window into like the types of things that were like innovative in two thousand. I feel like Charlie like clearly they wanted Jerry right right like and that wasn't going to happen. I think they probably want someone famous right. No one actually successful. We'll do this. Who Can we get Ama- Jason? Yeah Yeah I think Charlie from what I heard heard was like kind of pressured into it. He didn't feel your by whom spy everyone like his brother. Yeah his brother and like the people in the show to be great. It's going to be great like and I don't know if it was a natural fit for him. Narrator it was not great reader listener. It was great. Yeah Yeah I mean. He's he's cute though US cute he definitely party bachelor like hand down. In fact he ended choosing Sarah Bryce more and second but They dated for three years and they broke up. They got back together like a year after they were a longtime. They were together for a long time and they talk about how his drinking out in the way and like one of the reasons they're able to get back together was because he's drinking for a while now I don't know if he's drinking our not married. Sarah Yeah I believe you're married but you know he was like a party bachelor and it's kind of funny. That was in New York which I think it was more party city the Nah anyway just never any driving yes. He did pick Sarah Bryce and he was into her from the very beginning at one point. This is this is from a really helpful recap on jokers updates that I got some of these quotes Charleena's air if she wants to hug and Sarah says yes and Charlie kiddingly ask her if she wants to make out we. We hear a voice over from Sarah that some girls said had said that they are going to sit on Charlie's lap and kiss him and she decided she wasn't going to do that. Sarah Tells Charlie that she is a labor and delivery nurse and she and Charlie practiced breathing techniques mixture uses. Ashley Leaves Charlie Sarah to treat other girls. Nice no catfights. Charlie says to the camera that he thought his two minutes with Sarah. We're going well. Gee gave him a pretty wouldn't be hug it has no. That's about so charlie was from the very beginning. Look in for some make outs in. Probably some Sachs's wall while he was judging their chemistry on a wimpy hug wimpy huck hooks late night. Talk Laugh already. I I don't know Charlie O'CONNELL Donald Seriously I think he. He's not disgusted. Having a lot of sacks definitely had like among the as like Bob Getting is you know or you know even like Ben Slanak And but I think he was a pretty sexually charged bachelor. The runner up was Christie Kennedy and she had huge with a girl came in third who's also also named Sarah one time Grizzly said. It's very difficult for me to be cool with some of the last time I called them a mean. Terrible horrible drama Queen Bitch. Whatever else you went into it so she called this woman? Sarah a mean terrible horrible drama Queen Bitch Reminds over it. I'm looking at this picture of them. He reminds me of of Ben from felicity. Oh that's really rude scotsmen. WHO's a beautiful man? Scott not like physically just like his energy I feel I mean yes. Although our utilises explicity person Yes ben bringing the film canister in season two and Ben was here At what she's working at Dan Deluca and he's like this is and she was film canister is he's like no two times gene. I think by the one moment the woman would do over again. The woman were a wet while Juliette is so different. I fucking love listening if I can live Ben Covington ten and please don't besmirching comparing Charlie O'CONNELL okay. Sorry I thought I thought he had a exuded sort of dumb kindness. Churn Yeah But ben was felt much more than Charlie. That's true he he couldn't let emotions out maybe we maybe. Charlie couldn't let his emotions out action. That is a pretty realistic portrayal. Like Hawkeye who also thinks deeply. I think Scott's beadman should be the bachelor scot-free silverlake see him like all the time. Does he still because I said he did. Live near like like Lamelo. Yeah is not dog you. I've seen him a coffee shop season early riser like me. It's like if you go for like an early coffee in the hood. There's is a good chance we'll see but you'll see combat Scotsman. I introduced myself to him. One time in New York and I was so excited and I was like. I'm a huge fan. My Name's Juliet and he was like. Hey I'm Scott and and I was so thrown off because expecting him to say Ben. It was very convenient. Oh my God I did that once with. No No. Don't you when you're outside of your job and you introduce yourself to people who legitimately Jitney like. It's so hard yes I don't have a purpose. Yeah then being a free. There's a video of me and my instagram at the backstreet. Boys like after Party in Vegas from February very where I was like next Nick Carter and literally really close to him like six ten inches away. We're standing shoulder to shoulder and I was so excited that I fell down literally fell. I thank you know I just lost my balance like I was overwhelmed with happiness that I was so close knit Carter and there's only a few people like that for me that I'm like I can't even talk to you like it's like probably five and it's like Scotts Beadman Nick Carter not tyler anymore. Not Tyler Tyler. Though and I don't know a lot of people okay anyway. So Charlie tunnel not not Scott Speed Mandel but christly Kennedy. She came in second. She had a fight with Sarah. W also christly. This is classic bachelor and this was season. Seven's they really on their shit early on. It came out that she was claustrophobic. Because they had a fencing date which was Kinda dies and she had a little hat they she did him on where the mask claustrophobic. And I don't WanNa make eight final claustrophobia. But that's like some straight up bachelor or like bullshit like just sort of like making that into a bigger deal than it is. I wish we could see that. Well maybe we can. Hbo Mix the biggest film of the season. Was this woman Sarah. The one that came third she was the wrong reasons girl. She was accused by everyone for not being there for the right reasons. Her and Chris Leaves One added a lot and they made it to the final three so they had to interact just didn't go great their first single mom ever. ooh The show was on this season and her name was Sarah. She was one of the next seven seasons. Yeah she was one of ten women to have a canine no overnight. Descartes's on this season Charlie. Just ask ask proposition them. She's into Sarah. We haven't had a lotta time to be alone. I don't want this night to end. And then they all all the overnight as we're at the same hotel tell in. I believe it was Puerto Rico. Hopefully different room yes. Actually I don't know for sure that's a great great class have gotten a deep clean cleaned from housecleaning. Excuse me the overnight as we're in Aruba but that's you know they used to not travel until the overnight a pretty good one at the final three rose ceremony when he went from three to two. There was Christly Sarah Sarah. And when he picked Sarah he didn't say her initial so he was like Sarah. B W got so screwed food. Charlie was for Montauk and that's where he took the women to meet his family which I did not know about the O'CONNELL's and for the affair like what I know now. I love the affair when the season started. ABC explained that it was like a lot more flexible so he'd wave your rules and they didn't have a typical first night. It basically. They woke the women like at eight thirty and then like five minutes later told them they had to go down at this ballroom to meet Charlie. They met like in the ballroom hotel. And and that's how the show started essentially do you think like. Do you wish I know the last time I guess it was sort of somewhere else. Was Emily Maynard right that we can remember. Yeah US young in In the modern era. Yeah I wonder like that and feel that weird to me but it feels different like I wonder if I would be bothered if it started somewhere else now now. I think it'd be a little disappointed. Like part of the magic is sort of going back to summer camp every year like you know new faces same places in like things are familiar but different. It's like working within the contracts. I don't know we don't even mention anymore. It's true we don't like our. Yeah crazy drapery that they have and like the really the giant candles right or like the them at the police be such thing announced. Now I know I don't know why that is. It's a good point. We didn't get a lot of actually. I'm I'm calling season. There was the Pool Party. Hannah Kaelin like both like make their cases and stuff rate sitting in those like Weird Cabanas. Yeah Yeah it is. I don't know that's that's a good point though. I don't know why that is. I like I like pull action. After it made out of the fire unscathed too they should really be like capitalizing on the match. It's really true. I sort of know what someone come on in this season. Call someone else's slot it was like really no-holds-barred. It's kind of a wild season. Oh that was a big deal Charlie. Well it was a big deal I feel like just that's like a nobody even and then I can imagine. Yeah Yeah Yeah totally all right next a lot of time on Charlie. Well he deserves it was it was. It was good number weird that Jerry exists in the world and has not really been asked about this that much anymore. No one cares where Charlie O'CONNELL's it's the bachelor memory is very short. I think that you know even when they keep recycling people like in general like in the consciousness. My Jacoby are sort of like when the season's over I'm Yvonne. Yeah I think most people are like yeah. It's only obsessive still care like I don't know I. Ah I'm curious like how the the live show will do. We'll do people want to come out and see bannon back. I don't know next twenty three Banias Chris oils season. Nineteen eighteen will allow. Let's just disclaimer for all you think about Chris. He in the last few years has been enmeshed in legal drama because he was driving and he rear ended. Did someone in the person who's driving the car in front of him died but explain what happened on the scene. Chris left the scene of the crime before the police came correct. Yes and and It has been like there's nothing to say about this other than like that's horrible. I believe that well. There's he's the the ruling is come down hasn't it. Yes and I think it's like time served essentially it's like there's civil procedure so he's kind of like moving forward with his life. He just made a bachelor appearance his first one in a really long time. I think he was jingle ball or something like that. And yes. It's like absolutely horrible and leaving the scene is like unforgivable and and it's kind of it's kind of difficult soccer season. I was not particularly a fan of anyway. I found him to be like one of the absolute worst leads but he had like. He had an incredible group Group of women on his show. He had jade Ashley. I Carly Kelsey. WHO's been lost a time but was fantastic while it was happening Kaitlyn Bristowe and then and this woman Julia who I think deserves mentioning? She's very good on paradise now she. Dj Yeah Yeah Yeah. That's who she was on a couple of therapies. Whatever that marriage story what is it? uh-huh oh my God marriage camp. Yes Marriage boot camp. Yeah I mean Chris I think as a result has not been a part of this scene nor should he have been an and frankly I find it very difficult to talk about him. Yeah I mean so do I especially because I was the lone person in my friend group who liked crystals a no one could understand why and I was like I. Just don't get it like I would. I just WanNa like had this fantasy of moving to like I would have lived in that remote farm and unlike maybe you know commuted to take creative writing classes at Iowa. Yeah because it's renown for program and I just felt like he was a good person and then Ford the book. We went my friend. My friend and I who's down for crazy shit went to a dating dating like boot camp type thing taught by this woman where Chris oils is a special guest. Oh my God and my friend. The whole time was like amy. He's a murderer murderer. He's like this was before this happened. He gives me like a creepy vibe and then this happened and everyone was like I told you so I feel like I don't think I mean obviously it's not funny at all and I I feel really the whole thing is just so it's a really tragic. I mean this you know. Obviously it's horrible person died. I was at Chris. Got Two years probation after all this happened and it happened in April dozen. Seventeen even knowing nothing about Chris's culpability are beyond. What's it came out in the court case like? This is a horrible thing to go through rave faults. No faults whatever it is. I the victim's family and for Chris and his family is like just a terrible both terrible thing to go through and like incredibly dramatic and it really puts the Bachelor and perspective. It was just sort of like who can dig into his season and there was a lot of drama in it but moreover four over something really terrible in actual life happened in like just overshadows everything right especially because his sort of rep from what I understand was like really light hearted and like like to drink and like have fun and And then now I can't help thank like I can't. I am surprised. Did an appearance lady to. I'm really surprised right right. I mean it's just like I think he said about leaving the crime that you know. He was obviously so freaked out and he called someone for advice and they were just like do that and he did head but terrible number twenty two Jesse Palmer. He was season five high ratings. Twenty five million hotness high hotness as well he goes to the proposal sportsperson did you like that. Yeah I mean was he. He's not good at Sports Beasley in the. NFL mostly played at the University of Florida. which is a really good football school? He was the bachelor on four April. Two Thousand Four. He just the narrow has winner was named Jessica. He didn't propose where they continued to date. I guess he wasn't the giants. The tagline was. This is New York giants quarterbacks making a play for twenty five ladies but it's a whole new game because one of them is his by his runner up was named Sarah Huckabee their best location. I would say it was Lake Tahoe. The biggest villain was a woman named Trish and man was she despised. I would say she's the first like Uber Villain this morality see recap this Steve. Thank you so much happiness happiness back in the house. Tricia one liners continue marry rich. Don't cook order out. Hire a trainer. Incredible stuff right good so so good Jesse accidentally gave the row so the wrong girl at one point like just really strange just an interesting one because like he I think from what I understand like didn't have great experience and like didn't you try to like. He drove away after the before the proposal or something and he also was like confused. Used by. Who's who at every rose ceremony or like we need to pause for hand? Yeah he was like I think he got very stressed out by the whole didn't really wasn't into it and then he went all these years without really doing anything and then he like started doing that. Daily Mail like hosting thing and the now Travis Lane Stork right talking to the proposal which produced in like it's like okay after enough time. They all they all come back to roost His season was lost one. They have a date box not just a date card and so they would get like a box full of weird super weird. I think season was like one of the better early ones though. Because he was fostered by things and kind of he was really. I think he was a good lead. I think someone also like who's playing team. Sport used to pressure like actually it makes for good television because they are used to being around a lot of people. There used to like just kind of going with it. I just think there's like a weird Larry write this also like the kind of classic a sick person I think the bachelor goes for like as their lead which is like someone who's like sort of successful but like not. Yeah totally really now. He's on ABC. I think it was like a pretty a pretty good season. And I think trash really invented the kind of modern villain along the lines of Thira and Ashley as as we discussed and that that carries a lot of weight I think because as you go back and you watch old seasons and you really dig in you realize that what makes a good season of bachelor and Bachelorette is the contestants uh-huh and so it's like essential to have you gotTa have a lightning rod at least one if not a few who people fight over it and what do you think these people are are happy or sad that they didn't have the opportunity to go on to like instagram. Fam- yeah like stupid reality show. Fame primaries person to person I've met many of them are bummed about it because has even even if you went on a Lark to shake things up in your life. You have to have some kind of exhibition as impulse to want to do this. Show obviously yeah and so I think that probably is not usually slide impulse kind of big okay last one for the day number. Twenty one. Ms Ashley Hiebert Bert the Bachelorette Oh so. I think. It's actually hit bear Ashley French Canadian or something. I don't know I've never said it that way though. I believe you're correct. I don't WANNA at that way I'm not going to other F- It was a major doesn't eleven which honestly I am old the winter was JP. The runner up was the infamous Ben. Flanagan finally did you see. GOP's recent hell shape e has gone by which is really scary. But it also wants to a manageable like it's GonNa be harrowing but I'm sure but I think you even live with. It is okay you too seriously like really thinking of that may seem like a great couple. I think he seems like among some of the night they both some of the nicest people in the Bachelor photo-op. I've always liked her. She's always seemed immensely normal down to earth super same with him. He seems like a great guy also one of the few Jewish winners us us. JP Rosenbaum Baby. Now she's actually Rosenbaum and they live in Boca. They live in Miami Bay area. Yeah no they don't even book but yeah they she's a dentist. He is like in construction. Still two kids. I will say Loma for them doing the ultrasound on TV. Yeah really low really. Low didn't love. That didn't have have to do it. But why was she. Good Bachelor well. First of all Bentley was absolutely insane. You can watch like bands lead into twenty minute montages of just Bentley being crazy Z.. As hair was badly handsome. I'm sorry to say it. He was absolute villain but man was he handsome Bentley just trashed her constantly. Actually bad for Ashley. Because a lot of like the drama of her of her season was putting her down there was supposed to be the Bachelorette instead of her. Who is the anomaly Maynard who came later? 'cause that that I get that that's like Bentley Kazaa. Oh you don't like her. We are completely different. Looks yes yeah. Bentley kept saying you wish was emily or chantal. Remember her she was. She was fine also from Brad season. I think she was undetected. Choose like a taxidermist. Oh yes she was fine. Whatever Bentley kept saying he wishes emily and I think like that suck so there was a spectrum? Emily over Ashley Season But there also was like this date where they roasted her and also people kept saying like well. We all thought it was GONNA be Emily and there was a lot of like putting putting her down but then she ended up JP. I think it was like a really good winner. She pick the right person for sure. I was one where. Yeah you're just like bring it on home home ladies Leah solid judgments like you went through this right. You knew what you were doing in your pack. It also like really was very early and kind of like acknowledging the broader water world or the Bachelor. Because Ashley was warned about Bentley by Michelle money who she was on Brad season. Let Michelle money is an absolute legend agent and Bentleys. Ex wife was with Michelle money. which is how emily was able to find out INFO on her? Were they explicit about that. I forgot yes. So we're okay Bentley was like I presume you heard from Michelle in guests that they did. They weren't like Michelle money. Mike Fellow contestant from from Bradwell Max second season but the but they did wrench and her and say that's how the connection was made and everything like that so I just think the guys made it good and also Ashley's like really compelling she's like a nice person person who you root for and I think so often. You don't root for these people that when you do it's like pretty meaningful wishy between for her final two Ben and j p Ben Friday oh Benz goodbye was so good. Yeah it was so no matter and I was like yes dude. You walk off. Yeah he was he got down on Anita Yeah Yeah and he was so mad at her for letting her proposed it's fucked. It is backed up really done that since it's always been a rumor that Why Tyler almost post and like he goes through his whole spiel almost dead? But I didn't get it didn't take a knee. There's now and I think Hannah probably want us any proposal as possible. Always been a rumor that Mike Fleiss wants the bachelor's to propose and like make the film and feel bad whether bats like lots of them get out of it because Andy an emily and Rachel go back Like they all like stop them actually to back us up like I don't know if she did I don't remember I can't remember too boring. And yes. Yeah so but yes she let him propose and he was pathetic benef- for to be the bachelor very nicely and she got a bird because who else is up against. I thought Oh no no. No no as the other guy looked like benef- Constantine Constantine he came in fourth something like that really liked had. Yeah one. That was a Greek. Yeah she had she had good dudes and I think that she also had to confront a lot of drama because people were not nice to her. which like sucks? But she is now on. Stay really really wish them the best I hope Jay. He's GonNa be okay. Is that like what happened to him. It's an autoimmune disease. I believe Your Immune System reacts minutes not supposed to and so like starts like fighting your body your own body. No yeah I I think he's going to be okay but Really thinking them wishing on the best good wishes to the Rosenbaum's yeah absolutely. Let's not a positive now. I really like Ashley we do and NJ P very much. They've two kids. They knew their dad and everything. The kids are many of them too. I see yes. They're really cute. I hope they're a nice Jewish family. Amy This has been really funny if such deep knowledge in the Bachelor Okay talk about that. You're the expert. Oh to Julia. Fake you Thank you so much for listening next week when we will be hitting numbers twenty to eleven I am joined by two special guests. Tanner and J Tolbert. I have asked Juliet on her journey to San Juan Capistrano visit the closet. Where Jade Gabriel livered? I don't think I can ask but I hope they offer you kidding these people in reality. TV The expose everything. I'm really nervous. I'm really excited. The kids also the kitchen right dome so familiar with you. Know it's going to be off with your house is so fascinating to me like cavernous a middle entryway way thing with the garden inside. Come like it. It's like they live in like a weed style gated community though. That's the VIBE I get. I can't wait you read report. Please start off the podcast describing everything around. They will be freaked out with that at all. I I I did offer to like run errands for them because I thank you so much for doing this podcast. I'm happy now. You have a child. I was like I'm happy to be your post mate. Let me if you need anything on the way I seriously offer anything from La Driving past like Jews news picking up milk. Like I'm just like whatever your post me. Thank you podcast. You guys have to really young children. I can't imagine how can so. Jade and Tanner get get the next round. And then WHO's GonNa Finish off for eating there yet but I won't say top secret. It's a big fish there lead into Peter season. 'cause like I was when I was hoping for so. Thank you for saying so and thank you all for listening and of course thank you to article. We'll be back next week and

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