312 - A Peake at Chessie
Art Everybody for all those here in the livestream right now. Welcome we are doing our best but this is kind of a hot mess so sorry for being late but now joe and I are going to record record the interstitial bits for an upcoming episode we just figured out our theme and I'm just GonNa dive into the introduced normally would constraints Soda Dot Com. You're listening to science SORTA LAGO. You're listening to episode three hundred twelve our theme. This week is a peek at Jesse. I'm your host Ryan and joining me to talk about things that are science things that are sort of science things that wished they were science as Joe Bat witness. Hello Everybody Hey Joe Joe. What is special about tonight? We are in the immoral words of guy. I'm forgetting wow that really ruins the bit anyway. We're doing it live. We're live on Youtube. Oh Bill O'Reilly bill. O'Reilly that Guy Yeah. The Guy who's killed killed every famous person yeah yeah we have a sexual harasser death historian. Yes exactly Sam if it hadn't taken us a half hour to figure out how to just add joe to the Stream. We could've added Youtube but right now. We've got Sam in the livestream. Hopefully some other folks will join as we go merrily along but Joe yes. You really really put it together for this one. So why don't you tell us who we're talking to on the show this week today <hes> this week we are talking to Christina Gatty. She's a freelance writer and a historian and she recently wrote an article in shore monthly about Chessy the mystical monster the Chesapeake Bay so we had a chat with her to talk about her article and about Jesse because we like crypt it's here on science sort of we sure do well Joe. I appreciate the interview and I believe I made you introduce Christina when we actually started chatting with her so let's just go ahead and jump jumped to that now all right our guest today is a freelance writer historian whose work has appeared in The Washington Post to the Baltimore Sun Atlas Obscure and Shore Monthly Christina Getty and she has recently eh written a article about Chessy the potential sea monster that lives in the Chesapeake Bay. We've got a a thing for sea monsters here so welcome Christie. Thanks for having me guys just so I'm a big fan of crypt IDs and have been since I was a kid but Jesse was a new unto me. I'd never actually heard of this monster. So can you tell the story of Jesse and so it's kind of it's funny because I I think I knew vaguely gives chessy in a kind of pop culture way but it was the editor of short monthly who asked me to write about it. Choose Basically K.. I think you think this was fun or I think her actual thing was. How do you feel about crypto zoology? Do you wanNA write this like yes. I absolutely WANNA write this zoology before writing this yeah because I had written a <unk> like a small thing on Mosman ass. We've never done them off man show but maybe you have to come back for if we're going to make this a series of cool cryptos from the Appalachian Atlantic Seaboard Big Mothman Yeah Yeah Mothman and then also awesome like whatever sasquatch bigfoot stuff in western Maryland West Virginia and so when I was doing that was like Oh yeah this is this is actually really fun to write about because as a non fiction writer he you know you're sticking to facts but with this it's like you have facts that are are I think facts like is this real <hes> so it's kind of it's fun genre to to play with of okay. Here's with his guy said he saw but how do we know if that's real or not. Yes so Sarah brought it to me and I was like absolutely I wanna I want to write about this and the first thing I did was go and look and see if there were like what the newspaper accounts were of just weird stuff in the water in Chesapeake Bay because the the Chessy moniker didn't come until the nineteen eighties but of course like there's been weird stuff stuff spotted in the bay probably for way longer than I I you know the first one I could find was like eighteen forty six <hes> when this captain said that he saw something near Virginia a beach but you know I I'm just assuming that people going back from when Maryland was first colonized that people saw weird things in the water and actually have no idea about even native traditions and like it. If there's something creepy in the water in native traditions you know from around the Chesapeake Bay but yes. There's lots of accounts of just like I don't know I saw something weird in the water. I don't know what it was interesting. 'cause a lot of them all kind of aligned with seeing something long skinny similar to Nessie right somehow all these these accounts end up sorta describing this a similar thing. Usually it's like a small small head that's football shaped and then along body. That's anywhere from like twelve to forty feet long. I think a lot of them were like twenty two twenty five feet but there's he's been ones that are twelve feet ones that are forty feet and yeah and like but the one thing that is weird is that even though those descriptions are all very similar is that some people observe it going up and down like you would imagine Agean Nessie swimming and in some people have described swimming like a snake right and that's a key difference between the way mammals some of the water in the way reptile swim in the water so reptiles swim with an undulating side decide motion unless it's something like a turtle that doesn't have that spinal flexibility and then they're just using their their flippers and his paddles versus something like a Mammal Dolphins otters things like that they undulate up and down along their spine and that's that is a very key but consistent difference in the aquatic locomotor habits of those types of animals interesting joe where you are you familiar with Jesse growing up. I don't think so am I must have been familiar with it at some point because I recognized it. When I saw the the article recognize it as being thing so it was hurt at some point along the way maybe just in conversation with you at some point? I didn't know about it so that wasn't it. I don't know then I must have heard some point. Growing up knows I know this article was definitely on Lake Monsters. I thought Nessie was cool but I was never into the American like monsters champion and those for whatever reason those just seemed maybe he was because Scotland fell like this further away more or mythic mystical place and I also like on my list of even I think when I was a kid I was really fascinated by these things I always felt like Nessie was low on the probability scale relative things like sasquatch watch like an undiscovered giant ape wall unlikely seems less unlikely than a surviving easiest or living in a freshman Scotland or surviving population of easiest the existing secretly for sixty five million years since the K._p._M._g.. Extinction but Scotland is farther away so it's more likely than Lake Michigan or something and like the lock and one of the things that you point on your article like Loch Ness as much deeper the <hes> the water quality water quality in both these bodies of water isn't great in terms of visibility and clarity but the fact that the Chesapeake Bay is much shallower does make it you know it's like well. Where's it going to hide when you're not seeing it? Also these animals rules are always described as the types of animals that would need to come up for air. Yes and the population density around Chesapeake Bay has got to be orders of magnitude higher than the population sit around a place like loch ness definitely so if they're constantly coming up for air and we're still seeing them I mean I guess it gets a little foggy but again I imagine like Scottish highlands having more fog and you know everything about Scottish highlands feels like a place where it would be more likely this thing could hide as opposed to a place place like the Chesapeake Bay where you pointed out Bay is at its deepest about one hundred seventy five feet but that deep area is really just a channel that kind of cuts down the middle of the Chesapeake Bay and is the extinct or the old non-flooded added part of the Susquehanna River. Most of Chesapeake Bay is like six feet deep. Maybe that shallow yeah most of Chesapeake Bay is really really shallow so the reason that can serve as shipping lane is because we can use the old river channel reasons why Annapolis was like abandoned as the port was because it wasn't deep enough for ships to get in so it had to go. That's why Baltimore became a city is Oh that has a much thinner harbor is much deeper so the big ships can come in their gotcha probably learned that at some point in middle school so what are the kinds of sightings when you went back and actually looked at the primary literature like what were the sightings things what was being cited. I guess so yeah for a long time. It was just again like seeing something in the water and in nineteen thirty six there was a spotting of something strange by military military helicopter but that was way far north in the bay but it's interesting 'cause that same year. A big shark gets pulled out of the Chesapeake Bay to me. The surprising thing is that we had military military helicopters in nineteen thirty six. I keep it on that to Jill. You know so much more about military helicopters aviation. That'd be right. No no we did we had them. They were just cake real rudimentary. I can't imagine legend that you'd be in the military helicopter saying anything other than Holy Crap. Can you believe we're in this thing. Helicopter like who at that time is taking the time to look around and see what's going on in the bay like why are you just constantly be like Oh. Eh wouldn't gonNA die yeah. They're pretty sketchy back then but yeah in most of them though like people will say they see something and it's like oh well it was a sea turtle or or it was a shark or it was a manatee which are all animals that should not be in the Chesapeake Bay normally because of the salinity but it yet it's it's brackish and just not yet like not salted enough for a turtle a- Shark even yeah amenity. Will I think the manatee is more about the temperature or a seal one of them that was spotted was a seal and she can kinda see some of those. It's like a seal kind of football shaped head again like a mammal. It's gotta come up for air and then go back down. So maybe a seal that just happens to pop up next to a log or something yeah there you go one of the explanations I've heard for Nessie in Loch Ness is when you have freshwater offers they'll swim in like in a straight line with each other and so you'll see what if you didn't have a clear view of it or didn't know what you're seeing you would see this undulating up and down shape all moving a seemingly in sequence and it's a string of individuals serpentine esque weasel animals that that if you didn't know anybody you might think was a single individual animal undulating up and down out of the water so that's that's very interesting explanation. I've heard I guess one of the questions I have Christina when you were doing the research for this article. Do you get the sense that it seems like all these sightings are given earnestly but there's enough discrepancy in between the individual sightings. Is there like an agreed upon other than just using the Nessie imagery of what a lake like monster is basically the sort of modern sore thing it doesn't sound like Jesse is as consistently described as some of these other lake monsters. I think I mean I think that that's the also that confusion. Is that people I'll say chessy taken from Nessie and assume that it's the easiest you're lookin thing but then all of the descriptions are of something that's more snake like like if he will like just one long body without any slippers or anything sticking off of this long body but I guess people are like we'll that could be ahead in the neck in the back like they're still something underwater but I think it's kind of agreed upon that it's more of a snake like creature. I liked the or fish explanation as maybe a a why that what it could could be yeah that was again this me trying to be like okay so wait what if for assuming it doesn't exist like what are the facts you know here and the or fish look like a log ogg really long but they live below six hundred feet which way deeper than the Chesapeake Bay but if they're sick or some you know I guess they're sicker injured they might you come up to hire depths and there's I think there's like just maybe one photo of one that some sailors down this on a beach and you're like Oh yeah well. That would look like these descriptions because it's like a tree trunk with a small tree are medium sized tree. Perhaps and really long something that you would definitely think that's a monster because you just wouldn't see something like that for sure that we competed page for the fish has has a picture of the sailors holding a twenty three foot long or fish is an insane looking animal for sure and definitely like even actual scientific drawings of or fish or like well that looks like it should be on a map says here dragons yeah. We'll have to be a pretty unexpected set of circumstances that would lead to a giant or fish winding up in a place like the Chesapeake Bay. I totally agree with you on that Christina. Did you get the sense that people take. Is there. A group of people that are taking the idea of Jesse seriously or is it kind of just a fun bulky mythology that that region gets to play around with well. There's definitely people who take it seriously so one of them is Robert. Fru who got the video of chassis and have you seen couldn't available online well. No I haven't seen no I think I know I didn't see it. I can't remember where I saw. There's definitely stills of it where it's been manipulated with the colors could to try to bring it out but yet aired on W._B._Z.. which is like the C._B._S.? Affiliate in Baltimore and now a definite yeah I've seen it because I've seen it moving and it looks like a log floating in the water but it's going against the current so you're like well. Bill is it you know if it if it was just that if it was just the log like in the water moving around it you'd be like okay well that's not that's obviously just a log sitting in the water but then it disappears I like it advantages from view and you're like okay well that that makes it weird because if it's a log in the water it's a long in the water. That's going to stay there but the fact that it you can't see it at some point is like okay. That's that's weird. That's what makes that's what makes the video like a chessy rather than a log log log and it was pulled underwater by a different see monster Kurt caller bessie but it also kind of looks like the like a weird waves cresting where like the water would be a little bit darker and then in kind of like as the wave Kinda stinks back down that would cause it to look like it was disappearing and it was at seven thirty at nights if you're like okay maybe there's some weird like sunset thing going on that caused just like the waves or something you know it's like well maybe that's possible but and so their husband an attempt to do some sort of scientific analysis of Chessy so even though I haven't seen the video you point out that some actual scientists science might have people at Johns Hopkins have looked at it and try to do some analysis on their end right yeah so experts both from the Smithsonian Institution Museum of Natural History and Johns Hopkins Skains Applied Physics lab looked at this video and I think they messed with it a little bit like to you know did did something technical with it to maybe make sure that it wasn't a fake and it is necessary. Go straight but they said that it was quote. Unquote animates but UN definable so that it was actually something moving and then unquote a definitely serpentine form emerged from the blurry tape so it's got that snake like thing but it's also interesting because when you Ryan mentioned the like autres that could be swimming in a row that might look like something that made me think Oh yeah we'll couldn't that would be animates. Serve Yeah and Serpentine but like you. Can't you know because it's grainy in it's far away. You didn't actually should be able to see what it was mystery continues and since it's multiple things it's maybe hard to identify her makes it look extra weird. Yeah Yeah exactly cool. When I was in college? My roommate and I lived a little bit little distance but not incredibly far from one of the beaches and town I went to school in Santa Cruz and one night we decided to go down to the beach at night and we were the running around being idiots and we came across an elephant seal. Neither was thought to bring a flashlight and we could not tell for and there was not enough moonlight or starlight to tell if this thing was dead or sleeping because they smell no bad either way ever since then I think about when things are cited and conditions aren't perfect for the citing how easy it can beat a misinterpret things because it really could not tell even being if it was a a alive but asleep we were incredibly too close to it and we were we almost ran into it when we were out running around before and dove out of the way it's like I just it taught me a lot about how your Adrenalin Donnellan and your emotional state and just the lighting and not having a good flashlight available like all those things can make a giant was dead. We eventually figured out and we go back in the morning and check giant Dead Sea lion or elephants. He'll given even the right. Circumstances can seem like a monster washed up on the beach when really it's just a dead animal that floated from up North so pretty similar to the circumstances under which I saw ghost at harpers ferry you saw ghost harpers ferry. Oh yeah totally. I don't know we were on the C._F._O.. Canal towpath was doing a bike ride from Cumberland back to Georgetown and it was evening gene. We're down on the tow pathway in for like the last couple of writers to show up and is dudes like walking down the tow path towards us and so we wave and then you just like disappears into the woods just makes it hard right into the woods except the woods there is just straight down into the Potomac river is like what just happened to this guy just turned and walked off the towpath into the river. We walked over. There's no clean it was John Brown. That's fine yeah. Definitely was hung hanged hung no he was my wife always cracks me on this and I never remember because I know she'll correct me. If I get it wrong hanged yeah yes so I saw John Brown. I just found an article called ghostly. Things are happening at harpers ferry West Virginia Joe See I'm not alone. We've never taken science when it goes to her Joe. Oh that sounds fun. That does sound fun. Doesn't it next time you're in maybe maybe Abe and Bev can go on a goes to her somewhere her so back to Chessy back to the thing or so sorry Christina welcome to the show. This is the tangents lots of tangents. You also kind of tossed in a Godzilla. Tesla explanation here that maybe there's some reactive water that was mutating some of the local flora and fauna that could be partly responsible for Chessy. I mean I just couldn't I couldn't help it. especially with the latest I mean obviously that was original Godzilla. That's the premise but like made much stronger in the latest reboot Godzilla and so yeah the calvert cliffs nuclear power plants are right there her that calvert cliffs two guys have been to they went online in the mid nineteen seventies and I mean right like are they spewing something into the water. That's causing being a Newton's animal to appear. I mean I'd get in trouble for even suggesting that because that can't be checked but I think it's interesting that the power plant is makes that in the water around there is warmer because they're cooling part was interesting so like there is this hopefully the power plants aren't doing anything that's action contaminating the water but just the fact that the water being pumped into the warmer that ought to be is maybe part of the explanation why you can get larger than average snakes or the occasional manatee or things like that wouldn't happen if the water was normal unaltered temperature so I was kind of cool law yeah because the the one of the theories is that they're somehow like Green Anaconda 's that were abandoned on Schlick on ships in Baltimore and to be fair there was a lot of travel in Baltimore from ships groups that were coming from South America Central America in the Caribbean and the they would have somehow either had an anaconda to eat vermin which seems like a veteran yet yeah. I'd like just having like I think I think a cat would do that job fine or that. They somehow stowed away on the ships and possible got into the Chesapeake Bay but of course the tests to be based way to colds for them to have survived just all these years as well that that also doesn't likely snakes stowing away on airplanes is certainly a problem so I could see certainly waste stowing away on a ship often they stole away in the the landing gear bays of airplanes then when they opened the landing gear drop landing gear and they come into land dead frozen snakes fallout don't really do well outside of the water like they're so heavy that they actually kind of almost need to be in the water just for weight buoyancy one of the things I appreciate it that you pointed out Christina is that there was a peak of sightings right around the sixties seventies and eighties when there was a renewed interest in cryptology probably because of just all the U._F._O.. Sightings that we're having around them but that's also when you have things like Mothman the Patterson Game One footage is that my my beginning one of the names wrong but the fake footage of Sasquatch in northern California and also the movie jaws came out and so you speculate and I think this is actually pretty reasonable speculation or you actually you don't speculate you refer to Dr after Eric Chase him from Chesapeake College talking about how the Pop Cultural Zeitgeist tends to proceed sightings of certain kinds of cryptic animals yeah exactly and he's sees it as like this really interesting consequences factor so you have lake that crypto zoology like actually thing happening if like jaws which I guess kind of <unk> Joss normal cy shark or an extra large shark. It's an extra large chunk because as quint says I've seen one to two barrels down but never threes so yes being part of it and then also just the environmental situation at the time that there were you know. The Chesapeake Bay has always been a author asserted U._P._S.. who were more willing to believe because the pollution probably Cuyahoga fire in Ohio and so what are the odds? We have a monster in our bay sort of thing yeah like the the blue crab population is really dwindling so I mean I remember member even probably like in the nineties it. I mean even still today sometimes when you go to a place in get crabs they're not from the Chesapeake Bay but that's usually a seasonal thing I'm used if it's like it's Chesapeake Bay you know Blue Crab season than he can get them but those having to be imported or just like you couldn't eat the oysters out of the bay anymore which was crazy because for just so who long it was there were oyster shops all over Baltimore and you could just go get raw oysters fried oysters like you know up until the thirties forties probably and then all of a sudden you have these the things you don't have any more and it's like well. It's pollution. It's you know things are getting weird down there. We wouldn't be surprised if there was a monster down there to from all of the also imagined that when people start paying more attention Asian so like when reports coming out that hey the blue crab populations not do they always drive relations not doing well or pollution is an issue people who may be live near the bay but we're looking at it in that way like weren't even just looking at it that often maybe started looking got it more critically and then maybe they saw an author and like Oh. I've never seen anything like that before in the bay and it wasn't because there's a monster in there it's because before they were aware of the problem they just weren't paying attention. Yeah exactly that's something I always think about scripted and you you mentioned the movie jaws and there is at least in the U._F._o.. Community there's a strong correlation between movies about aliens coming out and an increase in U._F._O.. Sightings so that's where I get this idea that like once you're what's the concept is putting your head once you start thinking about aliens. Maybe here's looking up at the night sky more and then if you see a micrometeorites burn up at the atmosphere it was going to you're gonNA think that's a U._F._o.. If you're not a person who looks at the sky often enough to know what a micro media right supposed to look like and that's also this this point that various people have made about the chessy sightings is that like the nineteen eighty to videotape that Amazon T._b.. Spurs a bunch of other sightings people are GonNa go on look and then anything weird that they see they're going to be like Jesse exactly and then they have this idea of like Oh what they're looking for so there's definitely people who say like okay what you put. You put the video on T._v.. Like then it's going to happen over and over and over again sort of priming people to see something no matter what they go out there and see yes so. What are you what what's your do you have a preferred theory diva favorite idea of what Chessy may or may not be? Are you believer you can be believer. That's okay off the call. I mean I feel better about believing in Chessy because I don't I hardly ever like swimmer vote in the Chesapeake Bay and there's something about like a monster. That doesn't seem very threatening. You know it's just like floating along like eaten. It's I mean it hasn't attacked anybody right so it's just letting along whereas like you have Mothman Othman or you can't trust them off man. You know like that seems really scary that you're going to be alone. I mean especially if you're driving through western Maryland or West Virginia Nia you're going to be out on a road and all of a sudden like winged creature with red is is GonNa land on your car like that's terrifying or just bad sightings off may where it's like a person's just woman's kitchen washing from the dishes and she looks up out the window and just read is staring at her yeah. That's I mean one of my biggest. Fears is looking up at a window at night and seeing anything let alone. Glowing Red is from a giant Mothman creature who joe I know what you're thinking but his wings were actually more like the wings of a bat. You just can't call it Batman because that's just going to confuse people right isn't the theory. The mock man is an owl. Is that the theory how dare you Joe. Oh sorry real episode probably a Barn L.. Some I shine happening but yeah that's also the case for the the Braxton county monster but I think the brexit monster it's not a barn out different. It's a barred owl. I think based on the research that I've done which I didn't do this kept oid episode on Braxton County Monster so the research only because done already done <hes> mouth man but you can't have them all okay so you're so Christina you're kind of comfortably happy with the idea that there's a chessy out there and that and one of the things that the community around the Chesapeake Bay area has done which I think is really fun is they're using Jesse to promote conservation of the waters yeah exactly so the fish and Wildlife Service had a coloring book that had Chessy is conservation you know mascot and then I think it's also interesting that the manatee that kept showing up there was a manatee that showed up multiple times in the Chesapeake Bay and they gave that animal the nickname chessy and they were tracking keeping an eye on it and try to figure out. Why was there her? I thought that's cute to that e on the little nickname and chess even though he wasn't a monster he was just acute manatee. If the waters keep getting warmer and spoiler warning they will to the point where like seagrass asserts growing in the area. I wouldn't be surprised if we started getting like stable. Manatee populations as far north war yeah yeah totally good with the the brackish water actually think I'm I'm not a syringe. Expert like adviser is so I'm going to tread very very lightly but depending on the species of serene which is the group of animals that contains both the manatees the dugongs there is some variation in relative saltwater freshwater tolerance within that group Gotcha but the thing is is like the I didn't include this in here because there haven't been any chessy sightings ratings other than pop culture related in Baltimore's inner harbor but you know the inner harbor is extremely polluted to the point where if you fall in you need to immediately go to the hospital. It's that bad it's that bad your skin will start shutting and like your needs even new theory on what Chelsea is Harper and then floated out to speak band commuted monster freak creature from the black just like a a snake that escapes from the aquarium. The National Yeah just turned into a monster food good new theory. We have <hes> but yeah so there's a lot of there's there is a lot of conservation effort going on though and trying to make the inner harbor I mean basically the their motto is is in it to swim it that by twenty. Who Is it twenty twenty? I can't remember the year twenty twenty seems very close. Now that's not going to happen but you know just to make it at least not toxic clean it up a bit so tessie as a spokesperson for that by sending that it's located <hes> person honor I'm usually I usually person who prefers to live in reality and bring other people along with me but if it takes takes a a highly disputed probably not real scripted to get people to conserve their waterways then I think I can get behind that for sure definitely cool well I think in lieu of drinking water from the Chesapeake Bay or Baltimore Tor Harbor. We should drink something that's been a little bit better sterilized and we will tell everyone what that is in our next segment which is what are we drinking uh-huh <music> <music> <hes> <music> <music> <music> <music> an episode of science sort of we didn't also tell you about what we are drinking so Christina as our guest. Would you like to go. I yes so I I have an R._A.. Our country ride Pale Ale <hes> and the reason that I chose this is because Ari are features a little chessy on every single one of their cans and it's definitely L. E. B. Loch ness monster version with its little head sticking above the water and a big body below the water and they are in Cambridge Maryland which is on the eastern shore. We're on the Delmarva Peninsula on the chop tank river so they're very proud of their chesapeake bay heritage with the Little Chessy on their distributed throughout but I don't actually think featured their stuff on the podcast before so that's great treat. Their website has a little animated chessy bouncing up and down hold it rar brewing already are but I actually I'm not sure about that. That's fine. I mean yeah whether it's rory. Are I think they make really good stuff. I've always enjoyed the beers that I've had from them. How's the one you're having now casino? It's very good. It's I mean. It's a great pail. <hes> sets not an I._p.. -S it's not super happy but it's nice and dry and yeah it's good awesome and there's multiple breweries in the area. Do Jesse team stuff right. It's not just our air yes. I was actually looking to see when I went to the store today. If the local place by me had union craft brewing named their barley wine Ale L. Chassis and actually have never had that so I don't I can't say whether it's good or not barley white male sounds interesting for sure but they named that Jesse in honor of I guess what what should probably be Maryland state scripted scripted but that's a great idea. I feel like we could push for that. I think that could be very fun. Local legislative push that most states could could have some fun with and then of course most of them would just be stuck with like their version of sasquatch squash. It would be like the cardinal will a bar. Ilan is gonNA have enough alcohol in it that if you can get your hands on one you can age it and then you can save it for the next time you come on the show there you go joe. What about you taking back today? So I went to the Soda Shop. The rockets is and I grabbed what I think would be. What was the closest I could find being appropriate? <hes> which is a King Konkola so goes along with our discussion of guns Ellen such pseudo corrupted. I think it's just going to be a regular cold beverage giant picture of King Kong on the front. That sounds pretty cool though yeah yeah yeah it tastes like coke. I wish it's a cooler. That's pretty good rock. Up is nothing special. I went with an a beer from berea. That sounds like it should be scripted but it's actually not and I'll give you a hint and we'll see if you can guess the brewery rury. The brewery is named after the animal that just became literally today just became Pennsylvania's official state amphibian. I'm not up on Pennsylvania News. I guess I'm also not up on Amphibian baronies well so it's a very large amphibian. I think it is the largest of this particular group of Amphibians or at least in North America Salamander. It is a type of salamander. Oh is it the wage raw. I know this L. Mander and I cannot remember its name was a combination of of place you can spend your afterlife and character from Futurama. What is it sometimes known as the Snot Otter? Yes yes the hell Bender Beretta's. They have a picture of one on the low there you go. I didn't WanNa give you that hint. I thought that'd be too obvious since we've already talked about help under Britos before we started recording. If if I had I was like Oh yeah it's it's that salamander that they have that it's after but then I couldn't couldn't put together so the the eastern held under here in D._C.. This within the district but it is you could probably throw a baseball into Maryland from where this brewery is helping to brewing company and their their logo is tread softly travel lightly and this beer that I'm having right now is there grampus smoked nut Brown Ale which is a brown ale that has been smoked and had nuts added to it and they give a portion of their profits to or they say that they're dedicated to raising awareness of the Hell benders salamander its habitat and the environment in an effort to help bring this unique animal back into our neighboring rivers so I thought that was a cool thing to feature since it's an animal called Snot author and Hell benders sounds like it should be a cryptic animal that doesn't actually exist but hell benders or quite real and they're really amazing Vivian and I I would love for them to be more widely known and better conserved for all the people's of eastern North America to enjoy definitely and I think I think that's one of those where it's like. If you found a hell vendor river and you didn't know it it was you would like this Chessy pupae into the adult Chessy and move out into the bay salmon. They're born in Rivers first and then they move out to see and then come back to lay their eggs Jesse eggs uh-huh <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> another all just kinda hanging out kicking back and having a Beer Christina. Can you tell some of the other types of stuff that you write about and any cool upcoming projects the our listeners to beware of Yes. I mostly right about history which is why I immediately wanted to find the historical chessy accounts so yeah I basically anything I think it is cool. That has happened history that I don't think people know about and I think they should know about is what I write about and <hes> I'm lucky enough that short monthly especially we'll just let me read about cool things that are Maryland eastern shore history because I growing up outside D._C.. Didn't really feel like Maryland was a place of just like Oh. It's just whatever suburbs and as I've gotten older. I've been like Oh yeah. Maryland does have all all of these cool things so when I can read something about weird interesting Maryland history that makes me happy and then I have a book. That's coming out next year. which has nothing to do with crypt kids or? Our science at all really sort of the end of the name Varsha so we can talk about whatever we pleased so yes. There's about a group of young people in in Cologne during the Third Reich who did not want to be Nazis and decided that they would not be Nazis and resist <hes> so they started by like wearing weird close and singing songs they weren't supposed to sing being and not being in the Hitler youth and then as they get older and they realized that they're gonNA have to be part of the war machine they start like beating eating a pillar you do painting graffiti making flyers and they're like constantly getting arrested by the Gestapo and put in imprisons knife follow three people specifically in this book and they all are in jail at hen are arrested at some point but the ones who become the most radicalized get into this group that starts connecting with people who escaped from concentration camps enforce labor and people who are living underground and they come up with this plot that they're gonNA start getting weapons to blow up the Gestapo building and I don't think it's a spoiler alert because it's history and had actually happened my it was all nonfiction all non-fiction you could go look it up but the Gestapo find out that that's going to happen and do a massive arrest at that point and none of the characters that I I follow are sentenced to death but their friends are and so they're executed a group of people are executed in the fall of nineteen forty four to kind of put an end to the most radical group of these young people and then it is kind of you know the the sad part is that after the war they are really forgotten. Allow people are like other just bad kids rather than seeing them as real resistance so to bring their story into the world which is awesome and you do say on your website that you're writing explorers and highlights forgotten marginalized histories and so this seems to be very much in keeping with your overall themes for the stuff. You tend to write about yeah absolutely so they were really bad of kids and I don't know if I can say about on podcast but they were bad kids and I think it's really sad that more people don't know about them especially today where we have so many cool young people doing really great eight activism and they're getting some of the same criticisms that these kids got like you're just a kid or the way that you're going about. This isn't how you should be going about this today to what happened when the Nazis were a problem problem by that just cries quietly for an hour okay so that book is coming up next year it is not yet available for preorder but what if people want to keep keep track of the things you're working on or be made aware of when your book and other works are available. What's the best way you have a website Christina Guy Dot com which will linked to insurance for this episode so but are there any other things people should be aware of if they want to track down your work online? Probably my instagram is the best which is at K. G. A. D. Z. and that's where I post just a lot of articles that I have come out or stuck on working on etcetera etcetera cool willing to in the show notes as well and yes thank you so much for joining us and telling us about Chelsea and some of the other stuff you're working on this. It was a really fun conversation and we don't over three hundred episodes in but the show did kind of begin with more of a focus on the weirder side of some of these scientific unknowns about the world so it was fun to get to live in that world a little bit again with you talking about Jesse Paul. Thank you Joe for inviting me to be on catching up yeah. Welcome back anytime all right well. That was our interview with Christina Gatty. Thanks again to Christina for coming to join us on the show was a pretty fun conversation that we we had their time Joe that you brought a fun interesting person to the podcast. I try to do my part and this time you succeeded as imposter syndrome to my way onto this continue to imposter syndrome a mile away my way along being co host on it so as you usurp the jakup giving it a shop yeah exactly I'm just pro. Jacob always be Pro Jacob Nobel project. Let's it didn't it doesn't sound good junior Jacob. Sorry it's all right. I mean we're stones as organisms. We're not part of stones. Explain this. We came second. No when we we are forming embryonic louis embryos you've either form your mouth whole you're pro stone your first hole I or reform your butt hole. I I've heard that yeah yeah so all invertebrates except for you kind of germs are prototypes bestow all arthropods Nigerians molluscs all them they formed their mouth whole I it kind of germs sea stars and sea cucumbers and see lilies and things in the C. Spiny amy scattered storms are Kinda terms. They are invertebrates that form there but ho I and we are homes and all other early vertebrates and true vertebrates coordinates are also dude or stones catch a major major divisions in the tree of life so joe now that we've finished chatting with our new floggings your old friend but my new friend Christina. What do we do next on this program next on this program since we did drinks with Christina China <hes> we do that segment of the show where we don't just deal with listener feedback we enjoy listener feedback and respond to US near feedback and that segment of the show is called the Paleo how <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> Joe the final segment of the show you know we do we receive feedback from the listeners we take it in digest it and then we excavated back out to the listener for their a renewed sustenance and enjoyment sunny excavated backout excrete it would be the actual appropriate term but that sounds that either worse yeah? I mean considering how old some of these end ended up being meeting the right word. There's been significant decays what you're suggesting yeah okay so since we are theoretically in some sense doing this live in front of a studio online audience since we thought it would be a little self serving and a little boring for you all to watch US fumble through a Patriot thesis those are segmented show. We really enjoyed doing for our patrons but this recording is also being done as patron hang out so it seemed a little silly to do a Patriot thesis live in front of the patrons went that tends to be a pretty slow segment of the show are actually ended up editing around a lot of their so. We're not going to do that so instead of fumbling through trying to figure out a Patriot thesis we thought we would just read a message it from someone who was happy with their patriots so I have a message from Tommy. Tommy was given the patron thesis in episode three. Oh one which is the first episode of our coverage from last year. We're EBONI interviewed James Bay log about his new movie earth error water fire and very anthem foreseen centric sort of interview and so for Tommy that these we came up with was freeloading in the plant world anthroprogenic carbon surplus pushes vegetation to the extremes are we heading from mm anthrax vaccine to a new plant to seen look how long they ended up being they have to be otherwise. I mean I feel like people point yeah. I feel like people would feel short-changed if they were short and I won't do that so that's why they end up being overly verbose but Tommy was apparently happy with that and send a message saying thanks for the thesis Hey all. I just wanted to write and say thanks for the B._S._O.. On the last episode you guys nailed it with the thesis title run. The project idea pass my potential visors. Hopefully they don't immediately write me off afterwards words. All seriousness touched on a few things I am interested in exploring for my thesis but for now I'll just say that I for one welcome our new plant overlords. I'm Brockman anyways. I added the I'm come Bachman. He did not that but I've just added it so that Tommy when he listens to this would know that I got the joke because it's important to me for people to know that I get jokes right Jones that about me anyways thanks again and I think y'all are doing fantastic job but the show I'm glad I can help out and small way and I look forward to each episode sincerely Tommy early appreciate that message yeah. Thank you great glad that people enjoy all were put into this. Do you like doing them or is it more fun than the themes for that zero. There's so much more fun than abused by far the worst ourselves I I mean I goes back well before my time on the show yeah as I mentioned Don technically speaking we always just recorded the episode and then came up with the theme based on something. That's the more modern way to do a podcast. I think we started doing the podcast before that was a thing that could be yeah all right trying to join. Maybe that'd be tried to join us from the livestream. This would be an unprecedented visited mid podcast not interruption but mid podcast addition guest guest from spontaneous guest Sam joined and says says same joined the corner the thing oh shoot it does but how do I say this amazing hang on hang on hand Sam. Can you hear US say something. Sam's just shouting into the bullet microphone looks like it's just fully peaked right now all the time Sam I can see. You're smiling face but I can't hear you. Are you sure you've enabled a microphone. This is terrified becoming a weird creepy pasta with SAM smiling overly close up face. We couldn't ever get him to leave Sam. What are you doing? I want to be able to hear you man. I can hear myself coming through drills headphones because his headphones. I bleed sorry. You're GONNA so big and they still have bleed. We need to get you know headphones Joe no gaming headset. It's not supposed to be for audio recording well. Do we need to get you a pair for audio. Recording I mean I don't know if you're offering China. I would rather get you that works properly here. I can't <hes> I can't see him. Look on the stage ten screen it just assim joined. Have you admitted him yeah. I tried to Adam. I hear you Sam I Feliu that was me all me man Sammy now. I can't hear you actually did put on clothes because he put on your side sort of shirt night. Did that's pretty where you actually not wearing a shirt or did you just chain shirts. I was not wearing shirt. Apparently there's a giant pink button that I needed to hit to actually like push your addition to the feed to the lifespan. Thanks how's it go man. All Joe Meet Sam Sam Michio. Hi Sam Nice to meet you. Hello Sam introduce yourself to people listening because you're part of the show now okay one line into sam hi Sam Listener. I am a patron well Sam Joe was just about the read a question n- from a person wrote in and I think it's question you can actually answer as well and it's something that I think other co hosts on the show talked about before so it's really cool to have to New People on to talk about this particular question so joe. Take it away all right so I have an email from Richard M so Richard Rights Paleo Pals. I need some assistance and advice. I'm about to start transitioning out of the United States Navy and now actually have to figure out what I want to do. When I grow up I joined thing the <hes> use the Fox News? I was in to decide what I wanted to go to college for but I'm still mostly at a loss. I've been a fan of science sort of stints before the navy and I've always loved sciences of all kinds therein lies my problem. I think I wanted to enter a science field but they are all too interesting to decide on anyone. I don't think I've taken a science class. I didn't enjoy whether it was cold hard method chemistry or the excitement of pleading and studying bacteria in microbiology. I've also done a fair bit of research into space related sciences sciences and always leave with more questions a greater thirst for knowledge than I came in with ultimately I probably just need to make a decision and get into a program and run with it and see if I like it to make this easier. I was hoping you could explain what made you choose the disciplines that you did and how you selected what school to attend I appreciate any in all feedback and I apologize. If I missed an episode where you've already gone through your superhero origin stories. Thanks pals respectfully Richard. M Tinker Yeah. Is that what some say because they don't have a lot of time because our submarine. I think a lot of people just say the are never seen it before my life other than virtual reality really yeah. That's what it needs. I think this is our first sub mariner our email. I mean maybe just pretty cool well. At least the first identified sub Mariner. Maybe secrets emailing us for a long time right right so Richard. That's a great question. Thanks for your service in the navy. I've never I've been in the summer. I don't think I am scuba diver. You can go into submarine in Baltimore but you don't get to like dive well. No I WANNA be in a situation where I have to run from the back of a submarine to the Front of the submarine to get his die faster star. That's the thing right I mean. You're probably not gonNA affected more than the whole crew. Does it yeah I'm pretty sure that was the thing at least in olden days I mean I'm pretty sure the planes can react that pretty easily these days and the the ballast i. I'm pretty sure that this was the thing submariners having to run back and forth around the boat because it's not a ship when it's a submarine I know that yeah it doesn't carry other boats unless it does because some submarines do carry other than the movie still considered didn't even makes sense submarine submarines are definitely referred to as boats. That's true well Richard you can you can write back into let us know if you ever had to run from Stern Abou- to make the ship folk dive thing they do to make it dive extra fast and if they got stuck on the bottom yet jiggle it by running back and forth inside the south. There's no way you could jiggle one. Even a small attack class. Jonathan set it on top gear. Well Okay Jeremy. Clarkson said Fox must feature post was come on the you guys are going to talk about World War Two history. That's definitely at Clarkson. May with Richard Getting annoyed episode yeah. It seems like a James May type of topic to go off saying James and Clarkson. We're going back and forth and yeah okay gotcha. Yeah I think you've ever in the Czech Republic or something they found. They found a submarine abandoned or something like that okay so I know I've talked about my entree into science before. I'm happy to talk about it again but I thought since I have to other scientists with me I'd give you guys a chance to expound bound on your pathway into science of Joe. How did you decide to become an engineer? I I wanted to be an engineer since pretty much. As long as I can remember going back to late middle school watching the history channel documentaries of history shows so is about the development of like cool airplanes like seventy one and you to watching that stuff back then basically maybe WanNa do as a grownup so I kinda focused my my whole I out that you were just GonNa go engineering yeah and aerospace engineering for aircraft design. Did you ever deviate. Did you ever take a different kind of engineering class that made you wonder like Oh try. Different engineering not really did the the Bahasa deprogramming in college which got into like automotive stuff and I've considered every once in a while going over to automotive from aerospace just 'cause like product lifecycles are shorter in automotive like much much shorter. You know the beef fifty two it was designed in the fifties and it's still flying no prior fly until well into the twenty forty s and beyond so airplanes are allowed around for a lot longer. I guess to help rich in his journey yeah well. We're the things that like what confirmation. When did you get along the way that you were on the right path? It didn't stop being interesting so I still enjoy it. I'm still an airplane Geek. That hasn't changed so it's been confirmation all along that it's been positive feedback awesome. Let's say you have the certainty of engineer about here yeah. Maybe that's not super helpful right but I guess my thinking would was would be you know. Is there anything I mean. I don't know what it doesn't say what he did on the boat but you know if you were a reactor guy or something there's certainly plenty of jobs in like nuclear engineering background of a I would hope not no I think he was taking over the boat by force yeah okay well. There's probably jobs in higher see so what are you saying you work in a science science health field. How did you end up getting into that so right? Now I run a abuse <music> Habilitation Council Center and I have masters in public health. I got my bachelor's in anthropology and I actually commiserate with Richard a lot because I went the saints in the process of like liking science and not really sure what direction I wanted to go in and how I wanted to get there or a a bunch of classes in <hes> in university college in just love every single science classes <unk> actually started out in aerospace engineering went to Arizona Georgia tech for aerospace confidence of Joe. I realized unlike Joe I hated math that the turns out is incompatible with apertures yeah so <hes> came back home to you know on do went to the University of Maryland for biology. Oh Gee <unk> that the next most interesting did that forbid in dot heart studying algae and bacteria on impulse class Subaru anxious in that I guess I in the same sort of a path at Joe did were every anthropology class took was amazing fascinating so much fun just wanted to learn more about it and then I realized just like I studied by going. Apology is specially like <hes> one new friends fronts compulsory and then I realized there's not that many jobs or forensic anthropologists was the state was the state anthropologist for Michigan and I realize there's one one st and apologised for every state and some states actually share one and so you basically have to wait for them to retire die to position but if they tied Holloway to start your friends X. Job for his first job to figure out how for the guy who had his job before die spend your whole career like retire you had to go in like a really mysterious way mysterious way and only then if if they can figure out how he died then the finishing after career you spend half your career just setting up your own death turns out. Sam was the murderer the whole time worn now the forensic anthropologists of Michigan the only way to to become the forensic anthropologists have Michigan was to kill the forensic anthropologists of Michigan and then salt on crime. It's very dexter of you but now I'm on the study public health work for a long time on and looking back on a mile really weird securities <hes> route here. It's <hes> it seems like all hit will be pivoting all place but <hes> I pretty sure I basically. Sleep used of every single kind of detour. I've taken in like you know along the way and so everything's been useful like I was I helped run engineers borders <unk> at University of Minnesota for <unk> couple years and my short time in Georgia tech really helped me kind of like figure out the groundwork of that in help connect with the students helped me organize with your products that yeah just a a lot of it is what you're interested in what year on good at some point sparks Poi- and sometimes you might have to figure out like if something's sparks joy. That's that you want to do as a fashion or as a hobby now. It's a good point. I think what stood out to me. Enriches email was about courses the left him with a lot of questions because to me a big big part of doing the work of a scientist is figuring out what questions drive you and then using those questions and the methods available in a given field to try to come up with an answer and in my experience in trying to come for the answer you end up with more questions oceans and when that snowball starts building up then I feel like you've found where you may be fit for me. I started off as a physics major and then switched biology and then tacked on earth science at the end of that I and a big part of that for me was not just because I was interested in all those kinds of science and still am but what made me want to actually pursue more of the Earth Science Paleo biology being or paleontologist being kind of the intersection region of biology geology will maybe WanNa pursue that was I met people like Patrick and obviously like Patrick and I are good friends because we have been doing the show for ten years now and that that grew out of a spark of friendship in the first place and so for me a big part of deciding the science I wanted to do was combination of what I was interested in what sort of questions I liked what sort of methods I liked using to answer those questions like I liked. The paleontology involved a combination of going out in the field at these he's cool fossil sites but also like developing live animal research. I thought that was a really cool mix and then just like I liked the people they felt comfortable. They felt like the kinds of folks that I would want to hang out with. Even when I wasn't at a scientific conference or in the lab and that sort of finding back group of people that I wanted to be part of was a big part of what made me fundamentally go with paleontology as a science you guys get that to like. Do you feel like you belong socially or personality wise or I often say as a member of that tribe but did I know it might be Kinda loaded language. I'm definitely definitely an engineer. I definitely it's a bunch of airplane. nerds where I work so it's good Sam is their value in finding your you have anthropology training more than the other more than Joe Hi. This is their value and finding your group finding your home basis socially there is definitely <hes> cultures in every cannon cultures a good word for it and so love hundred you'll hear people in like workplaces covert workplaces <hes> talk about a fitting the culture of organization or a business and that's the same in I think it's academia sort of you might need a bunch of people who are very like minded and you might work worked very well with that culture or you might actually not sit in. There's a lot of places where a lot of like minded people are all kind of Taipei personalities <unk> clash with each other and it's more <hes> adversary Sarah Complementary but I think the the biggest thing is not necessarily to find people who are similar to you but more like where you fit in where you hit it off the best with people especially with with research a lot of mine stuff like that in Grad school was reaching across silos and I did my <hes> my face with involved in engineering school the Public Health School in the business school and trying to get people to come together in coordinate a love their the different inter interest into Eh one nexus and trying to manage personalities is one part of that. That's basically is trying to find noticed you'll find a group of people that you would really well but no one's the same or you might come in Ulker very like-minded people and you might be add something the value that maybe they didn't necessarily have yeah and that's something I wanna I wanNA touch on further Sam because I really liked that point. You know like other than scientists who actually study marine biology and not even biology and a holistic sense but like very specific kinds of biology or deep ocean stuff like I know a handful of scientists who have spent a fair amount of time out at sea on various ships to do their research. I think not even one percent of that group has been on a submarine or on a submersible to go and do science so like if you've already got the skills that that you know how to operate things underwater I think if you lean into that and figure out how can I leverage the skills that I already learned by stint in the Navy to then compliment branch of science that could use that that skill set. I think that that's huge and it sounds like that's what kind of what you were getting them. Definitely there's a lot of <hes> I think the term for is transferable skills is skills you develop in one discipline that is transferable. You can apply to other disciplines and you see this. <hes> you hear the slot with a would career coaching what people want to to want to make a career changes here lot with people who have worked with work retail like all their lives and trying to get into academia or trying to get into some other specialized field than there's a lot of you know <hes> ways that you can they try to coach do on how to a couch your retail experience in ways that are no problem solving or no customer interactions trying to manage people who are more or less amenable getting those those are things that just kind of not really useful but if you're in a in a setting where you're working with. Let's say a really a grouchy adviser and you know how to deal with high end. You know a behold shoppers. I who wants the thing they want right now. They won't take no answer and you can manage that interaction smoothly and that that might give you a leg up no matter where you are <unk> unless you're the very solitary sort of discipline of most science involves interacting with other people and he argued people than evacuating leg up in military especially. I find a lot of times I bill and more veterans going back to school will be situations where you're in a classroom in the guy who has has really interesting insight based on his time in the military and his experience with or the Organization of military logistics or or whatever ever that could be something that applies the rich. I was just GONNA say along. The lines of both you were saying is definitely if there's something that you enjoy doing in in the Navy I would definitely consider looking into where where you might be able to continue continue that type of work in sciences or in engineering just because it'll it'll give you that leg up and certainly you know if you didn't joy it. The defense industry does love to hire you know Veterans Joe. He's going to be a you just siree tower academics say to our side Richard. Join US also get preference with U._S.. Government that's true. That's true anything through the U._S._A.. Jobs portal. You'll get a leg up even if he goes into a pure science background and he wants to work e._P._A.. Where the note some <hes> some government U._S._G._S. Department of Energy or even going right back to preference Nazi? You're now now. They're right and against the last thing I would say is one the ways that I actually got into the discipline I got into was when I had a course that I really liked just went up to that professor and said Hey do you have space in your lab and projects that you want help with that. I could you know us to get my foot in the door and get experience and so it really can't we that simple. It really can be walking up to if you if you really like a professor you like their approach to the material you like the way they taught the class and you think personality wise. You're going to get on that. Just go ask them if they have space for you in their lab. At that time you may end up doing grunt work on a graduate students project but it'll get your foot in the door. It'll if you don't end up loving working in that lab or the funding for want of a project runs out you know if the professor likes you. They can always suggest another professor that they know has a grant that they can can hire you on and so it will get you in the system and start ping pong around various labs around campus where you might find that perfect fit or you might just rule out a bunch of options okay. I didn't love that I didn't love that I didn't love that I found that to be more valuable than the actual courses that involved a lab component when I was in Undergrad as far as figuring out what I really wanted to do so yeah and to that end I'll be honest. I don't know exactly how the G._I.. Bill works but I know that it certainly helps with. You've paying for college. So you know to work. Take some classes that you <hes> the sound interesting and see what's see what really peaks your interest and to that end there is the second half of the question was selected. What school to attend so so I went to Ohio State and the Ohio state I went to Ohio state also known as the Ohio State University the Ohio State University Amaze Yes yes you can say just Ohio state that is acceptable? You don't have to say the state research universities. No say don't say Ohio State University. It's the Ohio State University but you can say just make sense. I'm just going to say that university in Columbus. That's fine on whatever anyway one of the Nice things by going to a big school like Ohio. State is the fact that there's everything to study right so a big school like that. A big state school is going to have have you know classes in literally everything there is to have classes in versus. You know if you if you go the smaller school there's your selection might be limited as to what they offer so maybe start looking at the bigger state schools <hes> or just bigger schools in general to give yourself that opportunity to to study anything that you might WANNA switch over to if you change your mind <hes> and WanNa study something different after taking a couple of classes by win to whatever school aw Bingo on as Exa- that was my situation exactly as well you know I applied to a handful of schools. I got into University of California Santa Cruz which happened to be one of my top picks and getting into a U._C.. Out of state is actually kind of tough and the biggest thing I remember about that experience which I think applies to richards question here is I felt like a lot of the students that I was there at that university with. They were go by and large Californians when I went to U._C._S._e.. It was five percent out of state students. It's probably less now if I had to guess I felt like a lot of the students there from other parts of California U._C._S._e.. Was Not their first choice where it was mine and so they they were are there because they didn't get into the U._C._l._a. of choice for them and they kind of had a little bit of a chip on their shoulder about like our home at the U._c._l._A.. Didn't really WANNA go to whereas for me. I'm like I'm at this place where I have the opportunity for a world class last education of two degree of which I've never had the opportunity to experience before so I feel like it's sort of thing where if you come in with the right attitude a university that might feel like it's the safety school for one person can be the perfect perfect fit for you and so I would say don't worry about what other students opinion of that university is like if you feel right spot for you and it's got the resources and the departments and the professors that you need to get where you wanna go just embrace it and take advantage of it and like love living in it because being at that stage of college experience I think is so much fun and nothing really compares so yeah and don't freak out about like it's not a quote good school. That's not a that's not a thing you really. You'd literally one good professor. If you want to become if you want to become a scientist at at college or university all you need is one professor in your corner who will help you get some live experience and help you get a good letter recommendation to get into Grad school and your your Suzanne like obviously a lot of work but you know that's I think that's the key one thing I heard on personal experience with this on but when the heard with academia is the school can matter but a lump times especially Ashley Graduate School. It's the professor that you want adviser you want is more important than the school and salone times when I was doing my thesis than my literature few or that I kept coming across the same names over and over and over again and they were doing like really interesting <hes> research and that's kind of what you want to do is GonNa look literature and read what you're interested in and if you keep seeing a name or a couple lanes pop up over and over again and they're doing the the stuff that you're really interested in. It doesn't matter what school they go to because what you want. Is You want to learn with them right it. You know sometimes it's better to go to a mid. They might be in the school in the middle of nowhere just because they like it or their families there. Were you know exactly and it might be better to go there and be with that person if that's what you WANNA study than to be with good like Harvard with people who don't really have that and try to pigeonhole you into some other. They're part of that. You don't have an interest in that might be something that you WanNa pitch sitter so I feel like for me by the time you get to a level of research where you could get a p._H._d.. D._N._A.. You're probably looking field of people that has maybe thousand active members like and I'm talking to like the very tip of the branch like the most specific kind of research within that field you can imagine maybe thousand people and odds are if you're working at a university even Joe's typing really loudly you can go up. We got a new listener. You can go to your professor and say hey professor. I'm strongly considering going to Grad School for this. Who Do you know Oh that Oh hey jen? We're talking about Grad School. Well not that you know anything about that right. Jen is also professor and has been through all of this with us. So what I'm saying is by the time you you reached that level of specificity so you can probably just go to the person who's lab. You've been working in saying hey I'm strong considering going to Grad School for this topic. Can you give me a list of half a dozen people to reach out to that you know are producing good work and and are looking for students like because odds are the social circle of that one professor is large enough to get the ball rolling and even if you don't hit within that I six people those six people might suggest another like oh I don't have any money for right now but so and so does so you should email them and once you start that threat of just like emailing people expressing expressing interest showing that you're serious about the subject I find that you kind of just plink Oh yourself into a situation that likely will work itself out so you just Kinda Kinda rely on that Plane Co game to get you to a final destination and then once you're various put in the work done if you talk of this is by experience but the people I've heard the same thing where it's funny because he said that the game is when you when you're in the process of trying to figure out the path. It's like you have a path mine and then you know it it may work and might not work whatever but then after you're done with it when you look back like the path seems like it worked where it's right or whatever even if at the time it was just all random and everything is crazy. I've heard people say that over and over again that was just like the <unk> this route in with replanning but it worked out in the end and it is kind of a link set. Were just takes you wherever I agree with Sam agreeing with me back on standby Joe. You did great for an engineer. Thanks qualify the crap out of that. Well you know the craft took off. What more can I tell you why I think that answers riches question? was there anything else thinking then some. We wandered into choosing a Grad school. I think we're still working on Undergrad here but I think we're good. We're all superheroes and we told her origin stories no Joe I think we handled the Undergrad because the Undergrad his literally like where did you get in. Go make the best of it yeah as long as it's not like Michigan. Charlie hates Michigan apparently as well she. She's the West Virginia Dog. She knows that was the ten year long tainted relationship with Michigan. Don't even bring up Pittsburgh. It's not get there. She can handle it see I think I think we answered Richards now. That was that was all we had planned for for the Paleo Pal segment for this week Sam as a patron. Do you have any questions for us. We've given you your thesis right. Did we do okay yeah. It was about the world's burning public health issue. We know you're into public health and not sauce. I can't think of any questions right now. I'm still working for backlog at gotten to what was your latest incident. You hosted three ten editing three eleven today the one about the rebuilding herders those three tunnel all right just on on coal. What are the podcasts do palm descent podcast? I've been on that yes and you introduced me to that. Actually in system works so bones Szabo's another West Virginia podcast straight out of Huntington. This podcast will kill you and trying to think I listened to extra credits extra history the created at podcasts out of extra history Jason Cool. We'll thank you for being a patron. Thanks for being my friend I._R._L.. Cherry and well. Oh No we lost Sam. He's kicked off feed. Shake my my whole. I know okay getting married soon. It's been very tough schedule time. I the ones that way because it's spicy spice boy. It's going to do a actually have some probably try out. We I mean I've kept I've kept mine out of the light so okay so for people listening at home. Sam gave me a bottle. All of Habanero notes goes pepper right. No it's a calendar river. Carolina reports even hotter than goes pepper so it's Carolina reaper mead almost had meet on the show tonight but then there was a mix up there and I've been saving it only because I would have to record impersonal with Abe and we did the last hanging out with Abe and people who missed that hang out we had abe start creating his de Character Sam. Did you hear that one. No what are your all Abe is going to be a rogue dragon born. He's going to be a giant fire-breathing sneaky. Boy Ice Cocaine did himself. You got it in one tastic so I will abe talking about that more on the show later because I don't think he's had a chance to finish building out that character but it sounds like characters drink of choice. We'll be your fire mead so we'll just we just need to get a married and then once he's married. Maybe his schedule will clear up a little bit more can get them back on the show to have that drink so places d._v._d.. On a show you're GonNa E._M._S.. Joe Sure Right Sam what persuasion D._N._D.. Roll around inheritor ran no you gotta decide. Adore Fard are barred fard finally a bar that can take a beating okay so with that that you both for joining me and thank you to everyone who joined us in the livestream Genitalia in particular because they were the ones actually chatting with us and this experiment. I would say it went okay but we will keep trying so we will see you for the July Patriot hang out not sure when that is scheduled for what the theme of that will be but we will also see you for the next episode of this podcast which will be episode three twelve. No this is episode three twelve. It'll be episode three thirteen regardless of what the number the numerical assignment of that episode is. There's one thing I can guarantee you. You and it's that you'll get a whole lot more science so salad and you have to prep you. You just new crushed it just now does it science sort of DOT COM for show notes links to all the stories we talked about and ways to interact with the host guests and other listeners science sort of is brought to you by the Rack Yellow Media Network of podcast with audio engineering by ten jobs of the Encyclopedia Brench podcast. That's all for this week. See you next time on science order in it's amy making fun of my headphones so it's happening right now. That are the hat. Get your phone off of the desk. I can hear it but I can feel it buzzing. You can feel it buzzing. Sorry I can't out there you.