1989 Iron War with Mark Allen and Dave Scott
To forty four my time the official fastest time stood for twenty seven years patrick long broke couple years ago finally going under to forty forty for the first time officially that time was something that dave and i together there's no way i could have run that that fast on my own. There's no way i would have known how to pace to be able to just get faster and faster and faster as a marathon went. We had very fast miles in in town. <hes> going out onto the queen. K kinda settled into a rhythm to turn around and then it just started to ratchet back up all the way back to the finish which at that point was was a ten mile straight stretch back to <hes> elite drive in. I don't know of many other records that have stood would the test of time like that. Ah alright everybody welcome back to the move podcast brought to you by patrolling tequila. Let me tell you something. I know sometimes last summer during the tour. I named more than one patrol. I'm just starting out of the gate. We got to patrols. I mean like like patrolling hall of fame mark allen and dave scott coming to us talking about nineteen eighty-nine thirty year anniversary of the iron war all to be relieved and retold to a new really cool format this <hes> like an online magazine with chapters and you know we know so much guys in in about race and people relived it rehashed it <hes> and and just so the listener at home knows which was this was just one of the coolest things i've ever experienced in my life. Actually i was there. I was there in nineteen eighty nine. I had won some some triathlon in dallas. I was living still living in dallas still in high school. The mom want to try and the prize for winning. The traveling was a all expenses. This is paid trip to conan to watch the ironman and obviously i was seventeen or eighteen years old so too young to participate but i was there until i watched this whole thing unfold folded. I was on the press truck which on hammock who an old buddy of mine from dallas who got me on the press so i was not so much on the bike but the run i was watching. You guys just just i. It was like boxing matches. The this was the intensity around this was was so special on for a young kid. I mean it inspired me honestly for the rest of my life and so with that guys thanks for being here. You're both legends. I i wanna just get all of my fan boy voiced out of the way <hes>. I still get asked to this day dude when you were growing up like your idols was a grown up in dallas was one of the dallas cowboys or was it was it an olympian jenner was i said no no. It was <hes> pretty much. The big four and for the listener doesn't know the big four and try then and still to this day was was dave scott markdown scott molina and and and scott tenley and so i i you guys were my idols and so that's the thing that that really drove me as a young endurance athlete and and to be able to see it really shaped me so thanks for being her voice. Thank you lance. I didn't realize you were there. <hes> on that press crest truckee could've kicked me in the pants a little bit harder on that final hill reshape the intro well yeah i don't i don't <hes> yeah i couldn't and of helped i i. I couldn't relate at all and and not commented before we went on. I was watching some of this old footage and it's still just great to watch and for the listener at home. Please just go scour youtube and check out the iron more back in nineteen eighty nine <hes> on on the lava fields kona but i was. I was struck by i am. This is unrelated to the epic event but hearing people cheer on the side of the road was so g. rated in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine. It was come on guys doing great looking good. I'm like if that is now. I mean there's some guy on the side of the road like what you would pick it up. You know it's just so much. It was so so tame. I was very proud of a civilization back then well. There seems to be an even spirit with with all the fans on the course i would of course here mark's name many many times dan throughout the run and as we got down the last three or four miles <hes> it seemed like mark's name was was more common than mine but i think it was equally spirit and the way it was g rated back then you gotta lucky year to win that that a trip to code if you've gone the year before nine hundred eighty eight i think he would have been disappointed because mean scott molina one that you're not to take anything away from him but you know and dave can attest to this. He had to pull out the night before the race. I had three flat tires. You know so there was as far as any kind of epic math matchup the year before there was there there was nothing going on and so two fast forward a year to nineteen eighty-nine were dave and i are together for over eight hours of racing. They were like two completely different worlds and i think that that the disappointment for both myself and dave <hes> in our races that <unk> happened in a are for dave donovan happen eight eight that kind of set the stage for what became a whole year's journey to get there and get a a little bit of a lot of redemption for <hes> you know a year where both of us felt like there was an opportunity that was missed. You know i heard <hes> in one thousand nine hundred. I heard that day as scott was out of the race the night before and all of a sudden. I looked at the start list. I'm going. I've beaten all these guys. I have beaten all these guys. I have and this is my sixth. Iron man davis out the one guy who keeps beating me. This is gonna be my year and <hes> you know right right away on the bike. I got a flat. I changed it around havi. I got a second flat. I changed that a third flat happened. When i got back on the queen k a it was a real slow leak and it was my room was bouncing on the ground and then i had to wait for the truck to come and it was fifteen minutes sitting there to get a new wheel but anyway josh so you know from this high of thinking this is gonna be my year to this extreme low of coming in farther out of the lead in any any of the other airmen that i'd been up to that point my career and did you and it's great to get this history because i think like any big well backup. I mean any the icon showdown that we go on in sports so we go back and look at it isn't just like oh we just showed up and wow that was a crazy day like there's there's these steps and sort. We're of fate leads us to this place and you know you had had just this run of and i know by reading a lot about you that you're sort of wits. It's in and you're like look. Maybe mark allen in in this island this vibe and the mono- there just doesn't just doesn't jive and so let me go. I'll go do as some more and i'll do some other races and you're sorted this point where you're like. I don't know like i i maybe <hes> maybe i should just be done. Yeah you know i went home after the race there in eighty eight and i i got home and i go you know what i am going to go to the places where things kind of go a a little bit bit more my way i it's not for me and so you know i was motivated to come back when i got home and i had time named reflect. I thought there's no way i'm ever going to do ironman again. I am going to go to niece. I am going to go to the other places where i've had success where i feel this more in in sync with with with the whole vibe in in the event and so actually for a couple of months in the fall after ironman eighty eight there was going to be no match gotcha eighty-nine because i was not going to go back there well. It's a good thing you did. I mean i didn't think that lasts i i knew mark was gonna come back. He said to the contrary but after that eighty-eight race and really going back to eighty seven seven we we had quite a close battle in in eighty seven. You didn't off the other mark had lied on me. I cut him twenty one or twenty two miles and went on to win. I kept thinking well. Here's the showdown eighty eight in this mark explained variety of things. I pulled out because i was having some knee. Issues tested on a on a late good evening run the day before the race eighty eight so i just can't do it. I can't run on properly and then i told the officials that i was out for the next day and i said well mark. Mark's wouldn't take this race. This is his race in eighty eight as described the eta just catastrophic start and three different flats so that did set the stage. I was hungry to start my year off really right after that race to get my knee back on order and be ready for eighty eighty nine because i felt as though the momentum was gonna shift at anything mark was going to go on hibernation at either in eighty nine and in all this listen. I didn't mention at the top so all of this is these these ten essentially ten chapters of this war are going to be told on nineteen eighty-nine the story dot com. That's nineteen nineteen eighty nine the story dot com ten different chapters first chapter the race. It almost never happened as we're talking about right whether marcus says screw it. I'm not going back and dave the you know the knee blows out and etcetera etcetera and so the you know to repeat i mean fate brought us to this place in in eighty nine where we were all blessed and really changed not just the sport of triathlon but i think all of endurance sports forever to see who thought that eight plus our contests could be that thrilling are you is it was literally it was like a boxing match and so i always i've always been curious and i i guess now know the answer because i've been around you guys enough but when i was in that press truck and as a little punk ass seventeen year old kid maybe i was eighteen at the time i was like i do these these do. They like each other. They hate each other. I didn't know right and i'm like but obviously the relationship was very cordial and respectful and at least if it's is not you guys are great actors. Well then our our kind of different things now. We're we're great friends and we have so much in common back. Then i had a huge respect for dave he set standards and and and just pave the way for everybody else to see what was possible will so the s- the rival rivalry that evolved out of so many races together where he was winning. I wasn't it wasn't that. I wanted to beat eight the guy because i thought he was a jerk. That's that's what i would say is kind of an unhealthy rivalry because you're you're trying to just take this guy down that you don't even wanna talk to you but dave was a <hes> a guy that he he'll he had class he was shown us what was humanly possible and i thought if i can if i can just go one-step faster than him in cross that line ahead of him that would just be like the cruelest thing you know and and and so it was a it was a real healthy rivalry you have after understand though dave had this mystique you know like i i trained with scott molina. I trained with scott tinley. I trained with pretty much all all the big guys in in the world the time dave and i never trained together and you know his his training regimen. Was this big mystique. We would kind of hear stories about what he did but none of us were really sure what he was doing. All we knew was you know he was training in in davis in this heat and and just as incredibly challenging on june environment but he had he had this mystique that was like in your brain every day of the year when you're getting ready for konan 'cause you're going okay. I know what i need to do. But is it good enough to beat what days doing and i don't even. I don't even have a clue exactly what it is. He's doing nothing whatever it is. It's the right thing not to mention his his diet and by the way don't get you don't get nicknamed rebranded or or <hes> called the man forever without having a huge aura and mystique around you so that that just kind of says it all but i remember dave i. I don't know if you remember this week i was doing. I just started doing tries and i ran into you you. This isn't so embarrassing. I don't even know if you remember this but i'm going to remind you <hes> good high. I ran into you in the airport and i had this was after after the race my only defense i had gone and gotten a snickers bar and i ran into one of the the gates and and you had this like tupperware tub of cottage outage cheese and you're looking at there must have been southern l. It was something i was but it wasn't a snickers and i'm just like i am such a loser like i i mean i was seventeen or whatever years old at the time and i was like really sorry to make you feel so bad lancy. You seem to bounce back okay. Uh-huh my diet has done a lot of evolutionary changes way back then but i think that whole mystique part that mark it just planned it was really just i i lived in northern california. Marc went down south. All the boys were down there and so that sort of grew but you know you eat a snickers bar that you change your diet not because you did pretty well after no it was it was i still enjoy an occasional snickers but now though there was years and years that that there was no snickers in my life <hes> you know mark. Let's talk a little bit about just the spiritual journey you had to go on and i think it was if i'm correct me if i'm wrong. It was around this time. Where are you were trying to figure out just if you had it right if you had it with with that place senate for the listener who has not been <hes> to the big island of hawaii <hes> it is it's just different i mean we had a home there for many years and just loved it. I loved training there. <hes> unfortunately never got to to compete in the full orion. One year did the half ironman in new but <hes> it's just got a vibe in a in a in an energy that <hes> is really special. Even if you're just a tourist poorest you feel it but when you're an athlete and you're out there on these long stretches and it is just black lava on either side and it's hot as hell and it's windy and it's it's just you feel it and like i i loved it. I always fed off as i was training training. They're all the years but you struggled with it right. I mean you're like maybe the maybe the mono- haired haired which is the energy just doesn't doesn't want me to have it and so you went on this journey with with the shaman in stride to ask a lot of deep personal questions of yourself right yeah you know it is <hes> the big island of hawaii is just this incredibly powerful place in nature. I mean if if you if you measure from the base of the island on the ocean floor all the way to the top of monica the highest of the volcano here it's it's over thirty thousand feet. That's that's higher than mount everest. I mean it is and it's the most isolated landmass on the planet so it's it's something unique and special and it's still bill roth and powerful and you know i would. When you fly into coney. You can look down the way the planes commend you look down at the queen k. highway which ages were all of the bike ride takes place and so kind of in almost one big glance. You can see all hundred twelve miles that you're going to be on and it's for me. It was intimidating and i would get there and i felt like i was just getting every ounce of self confidence was getting squeezed eased out of me and i i was instead of embracing it and saying hey let me use this as a way to propel me to a higher place a a better race. I was trying to avoid it. You know i was trying to somehow hide from the heat and hide from the wind and and and to to not get as hot on the run as it gets gets in if you're if you're trying to avoid the biggest challenge instead of embracing. You're never never gonna be a winner. You're never going to get the best yourself but i didn't know how to do that. And <hes> you know the shift started for me to kind kind of figure out how to embrace it in the winter of one thousand nine hundred nine and that winter i went down to new zealand on the south island outside of christ church and i trained rain for six weeks with scott molina in it was kind of a it was just a one of those things like i've got to do something different this year because what i've been doing isn't working and and <hes> so i went down there. It was in a time where there were no cellphones. There was no computers and so for six weeks. I was just completely disconnected from my usual life back home which is often kind of busy. I mean you know how it is lance you. When you go to a training camp it's much different than when you're in your daily life the everything deal with in those six weeks i saw what i was able to do when i focused my energy right and the other aspect that relates to the big island is that new zealand is so beautiful and it's such a powerful place itself in nature and all of a sudden. I was real realizing you know what i can. I can go to that island and look around and instead of looking at that lava going. This is hell i can look at it and it can become a paradise just as just as easily and so i knew when i went there in later that year the there was gonna be a shift in how i i looked at this rawness. You know that i was going to be able to go yeah. I mean dave figured out how to work with it obviously but i realized i don't have to. I was always trying to be like dave mark. Be like dave and you can win the race that wasn't gonna work and so i just had to figure out okay when i went there and eighty nine. I just sat there <unk> by the ocean one afternoon in this little spot. That's really pretty and i said hey big island. Just let me let me be here and just feel my strength because i thought at other places places that i haven't felt here. Let me just be here and it was like the doors to a great beautiful mansion opened up and i was able to walk through them yeah by the way the big island is a lot of people don't know this and i love to tell people say it all the time so my close friends jokingly but the big island of hawaii is these the the most diverse place in the world so the thirteen climates in the world the big island has eleven of the thirteen so everything but the frozen tundra and the desert <hes> so think about that i mean that just really puts it into perspective and you guys have been there enough to not just have written out the hobby and turned around but they're gone up in the hollows and been around on the hilo side <hes> wipe your valley places like that like it is just it it. It's a special special place but dave i'm <unk>. I'm curious and i think i know the answer. I don't think you ever had any conversations. You always struck me as like because you're the man like when you're the man you're just like a blocker in tackling. Where's the start line. Where's the finish line market set. Go right. I mean that's that's my impression well that that's a simplisafe simplistic some rupture yes but you know i i think this whole mystique that mark mentioned was also my energy because i sense did not only for mark that was psychologically dismantling when he would come to the island and that consumed them in a negative way and is not that i have this. Mike mystique was that i trained by myself so people didn't know what i was doing but at the same time i have these insecurities as well and described very graphically when you fly in there you see the difference of the island in lance. You are very a sanctum describing the uniqueness of the island. I felt regardless of the year when i landed on that island i i felt energy and i felt energy. As soon as i got off the plane and i had heard this many many times by a lot of my competitors is hot. It's windy o'day. I got really relishes. Those conditions not really not at all like a calmed but i didn't mind the warm weather and i didn't find it as a detriment learn anvil on my shoulders so i embraced the island even the first time that i landed there in nineteen eighty two and i said you know this is kinda. My second second home and the conditions are severe and i'm going to flourish in this environment of one of the things that may have worked against mark with his his most magnificent career. No no one in the sport has even come close to his career on career wins and top top three and that was rare usually one two in almost every race said he was in but yet in kona where it was the wimbledon of our sport. He stumbled for six times and <hes> <hes> in some ways. I think that aura and mark and speak for himself. That's a three-party group here <hes> i i sense that that he was intimidated not only by myself but the island and really trying to put a cap on his stellar and brilliant career and that was really every year and it was growing every year never really had a bad year until he got to ironman in october. So you know the the conditions were are or difficult. I struggled really with <hes>. You know a type a. personality as we all three of us. Have you know how how hard hi can. I set at the bar and it was really for myself and and it's almost like an alcoholic. If i couldn't run ten miles on that day about five five and now i i would stop doing it and so i sort of have this self inflicting punishment that i wrestled with every single year during in competition and in the early nine is after after this race how where if the if i set the bar high enough it was really the punishment was not the not to exercise and people didn't really understand that that's that's very intense and so the pressure building up for every ironman race from eighty two eighty three eighty four years that i one eighty six eighty seven it wasn't oh dave scott's like a robot <unk> he works out davis and just as everything by himself and he shows up in this magnificent shape and in kana very false into the contrained in my family and close friends know that they had to pull me out of this abyss where i was again like an alcoholic. Dave you gotta stop stop. You've got to get ready for the year for the race by the way this guy. Markdown is going to be ready for you this year. A lot of people don't know that that that the hawaiian are the ironman world. Championships have not always been on the big island of hawaii. We're talking about the big island but you know just a quick quick scroll through wikipedia here. You won your debut. When you're first ironman in nineteen eighty when it was held on the island of wa who wear the race was founded and then ultimately moved moved to the big island eighty two obviously a very different different dynamic still still a great island still a lot of energy but not not the rock as they call it not not iraq moved over there in one thousand nine hundred eighty one john howard one in nineteen eighty one and then <hes> there were two racism in eighty two so i missed the eighty one race and then came back in nineteen ninety-two scott pelley won the february raise. I one october eighty two yeah and and what i mean i do think that you guys deserve a lot of credit for just just launching this sport and does not just the sport but the brand of iron man into the living rooms of america in the gyms of america. I mean would you guys ever would have thought that look how businesses the businesses. I mean there's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of races all over the world. It's a multi hundred hundred million dollar business in terms of total revenue. I mean would we ever have thought i i wouldn't have thought that yeah it's <hes> it's really grown dave and i am we got into the sport when it was when when it was an adventure it wasn't a business and now it is truly has become a business with with ironman races all over the world on every continent i think and <hes> <hes> you know we were just lucky to be in the sport. At a time where it was it was taking off and the race in nineteen eighty nine was it was really the first time that people saw that you could actually raise the iron man you know before before nineteen eighty-nine. I think other other other than dave we all kinda thought the guy who's going to win. This dang thing is going to be the guy that slows down the least and nave was the guy who was doing that and i didn't didn't think that you could actually race it. You know i just thought trying in go as hard as i can and hold on as long as i can and hope that i don't slow down too much that i can pull off a victory and that that's not a strategy. That's that's doing something out of fear. You know it's not having a vision of had actually do it right and so you know <hes> and just the story the surrounding the nineteen eighty-nine race. I mean you know it's actually something that we dave even i and a lot of other people have hoped that ironman would actually tell indepth hasn't it hasn't really been told with all the detail and that's why were telling these stories to kind of just put some perspective on what it was that it took for each of us to actually get to the start line that year you you know i one of the stories that i that i have never told. Is that in one thousand nine hundred nine they had the first i._t. You olympic distance world championship and avignon in so you had to qualify for the u._s. Team which meant that i had to do a race which i did in in dallas and i won and got on the team and then in august on august six nine hundred eighty nine. I went to avignon. I had been focusing almost two months on just doing short distance work a lot of speed work. I cut out all of my ironman training which you know. I didn't know if it was a good idea or not but i thought i i can't multitask. I can't be training for ironman and the i._t. World championships at the same time so during this stretch right in the middle of the summer i cut back on everything was going to get ready for conan in october and i got i. I won the race. I got back home the day after the race. Actually might pig climb move onto which you know. Lance is a killer climbing so you're i. I do this race that had been a another focus of mine in eighty nine ad distract me from having to think about conan. I wasn't thinking a whole lot about dave <hes> and the day after that race which was demanding. I do this ride that was just incredibly challenging and <hes>. I don't know if it was good or not. It was was an adventure and i thought okay. I'm back on ironman turf. I'm ready to go. I got back home a week later. I was at a swim workout in boulder colorado where i trained in the summer i the main set was coming up had to go to the bathroom. I thought all right instead of getting out in the middle of set go take care of visas right now and then be ready to go so i went into the locker room and i'm standing there and the next thing i know i was coming out of some kind of like void or black darkness or something and i am hurling face forward toward the urinal and i smash mash my head on the porcelain i blacked out and just as i was coming to my head just smashed into the thing i crumpled down on the floor. I couldn't get up for a minute and as i was laying there sitting there crumpled up on the floor. It was like one of those eternal l. moments where time stops and you start thinking about everything and i thought this is not a normal occurrence blacking out out is not a sign that things are going right. Blacking out is like something's really frigging wrong here and in that moment it's like forget it. I'm done with sport. I'm not going to iron man. I'm done with training. I don't know what i'm doing to my body here but it's not something that's good and so here it is once again you know early august and for the second time in less than a year i have decided i'm not going back to kona. I'm not even gonna race anymore. It's not worth destroying my body and you know fortunately a little more time passed and i picked up the pieces and then i did relaunch got got back into the training but boy you know here's this amazing race. Everybody knows about but again. There was a second point where that matchup it almost did not happen so that's you know if that happens today. You're on rundown to get some blood work done or there has to be a reason. The things like that happen right and we all know how hard is endurance athletes push our body and deplete our bodies and and you know oh yeah you'd things like that can happen but did you follow up on that was it just like cosmic and random and like well ironically. I i didn't get it checked out because it didn't happen again and i gave myself a few days to kind of just really back gov and take it easy and then my training partners over like come on. We're gonna do this epic right. It's going to it's going to be from boulder to wiggins seventy five miles straight <music> out through the cornfields of one hundred fifty mile ride and <hes> you know sounded like an adventure again and when when things sound like an adventure at sorta like i forget about my problems problems i forget about my worries. I forget that dave scott is looming bigger and bigger every day and also a bit of news that it came through right at that time is that dave had done japan ironman the week before avignon his time in japan was eight hours and one minute and it was so mind blowing fast because his his record and cone. I think was around eight twenty seven twenty eight at that point so he went almost thirty minutes faster than anybody would ever gone kona and it was it was so far off the charts the i thought either the racecourse was short or maybe it was freaky. Cool day japan. Usually it's super hot and humid there. It wasn't either of those things he just went fast and so here's here's here's this confluence of things. That's just stacking up to say. Don't go back. You know you got a guy. That's gone thirty minutes faster than anybody else on the planet and you just passed out you were sitting on the floor or last week. Ah the locker room at the swimming pool. Don't go back well. We can all be worth right and we can all be glad you did did you did did you have training partners up there and and you know davis and over you. Nobody was crazy crazy enough to go out with you out here in the backwoods. I mean i'm assuming you probably i'm guessing you swam on a master's program. That's that's the easiest just to get it done in dusted but no long runs long rides were were you solo most of the time i was so solo <hes> close friend of mine and still close friend who said that you can do this ironman race. This was back in the late seventy eight and i ended in january of eighty. He's a physician name is mike and he said you gotta do this. Your your gift is your ability to endure and he was runner a decent runner to thirty three marathoner and we start ryan together and i seem to pick it up this fight. My unsightly formed fairly quickly a. and so. I realized that <hes> you know if i had mike to train with but he was slower so we'd we'd play these games. Mike oh you turn around here now. A spacek forty minutes. I'll see if i can catch on the way home and we had these mindless epic duel in and sometimes as i would catch them. Sometimes i would within the last couple of miles but most of the time i trained by myself. I had a couple of women swimmers that were collegiate. He just rumors that were very very strong and i swam with them in a master's program but ninety percent of my rides and runs were by myself and if i could would've changed it at the time if there was the nucleus or if i had the opportunity <hes> to be in san diego where all the other top talented athletes athletes were in the world but i didn't leave my hometown and so that was my choice in my choice was inevitably training by myself but tim to get their eighty nine. The circumstances were were quite different. Mark takes off the new zealand. I knew he was there. I knew training there with with scott. Molina lina or scott was legendary <hes> in many of his races in winning the eighty eight ironman <hes> that my my winter was different but five out after eighty eight that i would not have this emotional psychological <hes> dip and i would race early lance. I don't know if you remember but it's all over youtube youtube lance armstrong dave scott race in u._s. Bambi me her yeah early eighty. I have to tell people that you know. They say well you race last. I said yeah but the outcome jimmy rozelle just any that video about thirty minutes and he knows we're doing the show but he just sent it to me and i were we're sitting here so i haven't watched it but <hes> you killed everybody that day. <hes> i was oh god. I was seventeen or eighteen years old. It was hot as hell humid <unk> obviously in south florida and i was running solid and second. I'm like this is grandma like a young kid. I'm going to get prize money. I'm like this is awesome and like a half a mile before the finish line. Just something happened like i didn't follow my face like mark just described but i i started to feel nauseous and i'm like what's what's going on here next thing you know i'm projectile vomiting as an trying to run some link skipping along throwing. I'm like dude. I don't want to lose by prize money and i'm just throwing up throwing up to have no idea what's going on. Fitch steve fitch old buddy traffic passes me on the ass. He's like dude. Hang in there man. You got this and i stopped throwing up and i'm like wait a minute. What are you talking about hanging there and i just started sprinting my ass off and i went by him and it was like it was like like poltergeist. He looked at me like i just passed this kid who was projectile vomiting and he he was so that was a big big result for me. I was i it was amazing. What the my inefficient so it wasn't like screw. This guy was like i love that guy and so i was just like something came over me and yeah and i had a few of them in ahead. You know that that day with you in miami day but also mark you'll remember nineteen and eighty seven <hes> the president's triathlon dallas <hes>. Somebody convinced me to turn pro like the week before i get out of the water with all you guys. Andrew mcnaughton takes off on on the bike and rides away. I'm riding with with mark and a couple of other guys. Maybe <hes> oh gotcha. I just saw him. When i was down in new zealand a couple of years back <hes> <hes> crap dig the that swimmer big bonaire dude how might <hes> rick well. I ran into rick wells down in august yeah well and <hes> so i'm on the bike with you guys mark. You're looking at me like okay. Who's this kid and of course we got on the run. You ran away and killed everybody. I ended up getting fifth or sixth. I think for me again. I was like wow. This is cool like those days like i will. I will never forget every second of those days like that that i can't. I remember more of those days than i do of days in the tour like it's the weirdest. It was just such a special time for me. Well you know if you i've never never heard that story of you and dave and miami but for sure lance if you can projectile vomit and keep running you're cut out to do an ironman in all of the race kona twelve times and eleven of those twelve. I got sick to my stomach and so i only got got it right one time and it was actually my last one ninety ninety five. That was the only one out of twelve that i didn't <hes> get sick and throw up at some point. I i don't know if that's a great endorsement for for what i did but it was just the reality had to deal with it sometimes yeah so here for the listeners and i found this. If you go on ironman site unfortunately unfortunately the results don't go back there years but i just did a little google searching here and it popped up on on one of the forms on slow twitch <hes> <hes> so here's just just to give the audience an idea of how close this race was so in the swim mark you swim fifty one seventeen for the two point four miles. Dave you swim fifty one sixteen so you're basically together on the bike <hes> mark it's listed at four thirty seven fifty two debut listed four thirty seven fifty three so basically obviously together and then and then what unfolds is of course the marathon which <hes> was was was a boxing match it was it was one of the cool is is not the coolest thing i've seen in a long time aria ever so <hes> just so close and we've never well. We've never percents and we're probably never will see it again. I'm curious. You know what i'm curious about <hes> nutrition because we're we're talking about protect vomiting which i don't think got to do with my nutrition during the race might have had to do with my nutrition the night before but what was so there's so much made of nutrition today when it comes to these he's all tra- you know these events iron man's firemen's marathons. <hes> was y'alls race day nutrition in nineteen eighty nine because he's the nutritionist here well. I jack i i'll start of likely to start off first off a preface it that you know i thought i was a really bright guy. I was telling people what to eat and what not it to eat and of course there's lots of stories about what dave scott eight twenty figs in and he won the race so he must know what the eat. I'm gonna try those figs and i also had a contract and industry and i think i had six or seven an one race. I i just think i had a cast iron stomach and i got away with it. The those those figs are pretty nutrient dense lot of carries a fair amount of water and they got lots of fiber so you know people followed they've scott eating mantra completely blew up out on the course literally blew up the hit every port a potty on the run so in eighty nine <hes> i <hes> i was taking some fluid placement drink at the time i think it was exceed i wish is pretty similar to the fluid replacement drinks that are on the market right now. One of the first first ones that were out there and <hes> and i also had i had a few figs and a couple bars but it wasn't really <hes>. It wasn't a lot of science behind it. I think the evolution of the of the diet is no what what i know now <hes> in if i had gone sort of lower carb higher fat when market speak to this because he was a much wiser than i wasn't. I would kinda who who it that. He was eating all this high healthy fat but really that's. Let's <hes> what i'm professor now but way back in eighty nine i i i would actually grab some orange slices on on the run which isn't great eight and i think both of us and it was kind of profiled and tim noakes is a book <hes> lower running that these guys were oxidizing fats at a really fast rate and have a hydrate utilization per minute is about point seven grams of herbal hydrated people that are burning fat as as you have glances well. It can oxidise almost twice that rate even if you're carbohydrate adapted so in simple language. I didn't need a lot of calories to get through the race. I think tennessee is to overeat. Never drink in those races. A lot of people have g._i. Distress i never lied to you i think and i then i suffered. I'd agree because i lived in two thousand twelve when i was doing the seventy point. Three's 'cause the layman are the amateur which i was going back to 'cause. I hadn't raced these distances. Was you know i'm going. I'm going this is how hard i'm. I know how hard i'm going so i know how many calories i'm burning in so i gotta be putting at least you know some percentage of the half of that back in then in the gut. Just can't take it. I mean it happened at race after raised after raising i finally <hes> volley went down to seventy point three florida outside of orlando orlando and i said okay and this is again with the help of of jimmy ricky telo you said light breakfast. You know maybe a piece of toast of banana. Maybe a bite or two of oatmeal meal and then in the race nothing and boy. I mean game changer came out of the water v two hours flat on the bike and ran and whatever i ran one fifteen in so i was like oh the icy i was. I've just been eating too much so it. It's i think that's the most common common mistake for for the average amateur triathlete. There's just can't get the gut right yeah eating too much too soon and then in t one they end up going down to many tarries so they can get away with it on the bike but as soon as i start to rhyme than working against gravity to consist of the nutrition challenge is kind of goes back to actually a lot to do with this this series that we're putting together and the the series by the way it was an idea from scott zagury no who you know well anson and dave and and he's been around the sport for many many years many different sides of that he he he knows a lot of the stories he and i have talked about a lot of the avenue. Little side corners that i had to go through eighty nine to get is the start line. He said you know what you dave really need to put this down so that it's it's preserved because it's it's so cool he goes. I tell people everything that led up to that race that i know nothing about the sport and their jaws are dropping but anyway back to the nutrition. I think probably a lot of people think that dave avenue just show up and and the you know we've got totally wired totally together that we're not worried about thing that we've dialed everything in but you know i'll admit like the night before the race in eighty nine. I was nervous nervous as hell. I didn't it's not because there were all these other guys in the race. It's because is there was one guy in the race day scott in in my mind. It's like everybody else was kind of a. I don't even know if this is the right way to say but it was almost like they were these faceless athletes. I wasn't even concerned about them. There was one guy and so in my mind you know the night before the race i was i was nervous purpose. I was having a hard time eating and <hes> you know when you're nervous. Your stomach doesn't work the same as when you're relaxed and so everything can work fine and training you get out there in the race. Course you're nervous. There is the nerves anxiety and you don't absorb the same and so the only way to circumvent that is is as you guys both said to eat less but anyway to go back to that night before i was. I was just thinking you know what davis just one frigging tough guy and i've done a lot of i've done a lot of crazy shit this year in my training and i'm in better shape than ever but it still may not be enough to to beat him. You know he is just he's toughest nails. There's there's no little trick that that i can pull. That's going to intimidate him. You know and i can be as far out in the lead is i can possibly get and he's never going to give up ever ever ever and so i thought who okay. Let's just make this a different race and i thought i'm just going to go out there and learn from learn from the master. You know he's got this thing wired. I'm just going to stick with them and see how he does it because i'd never actually been around long enough with him to see how he actually paces this thing because he does it perfectly in. Maybe it'll be enough to win. Maybe it won't but the main thing is. I want to have a race where from start to finish. I'm able to give it everything i have and and and i'm not gonna fall apart. You know i'm i'm going to give it a lot but i don't want to go so hard that i blow up like i've done so many other times and so there was like this this piece that just started to kind of come over me as i was <hes> as i was falling asleep that night and it's like yeah i don't. I don't have to win this thing to have it. Be a worth while day to have it. Be something that will will be memorable for me for my life and so my whole mindset was different and and you know way back to the nutrition i thought just relax attacks on nutrition too because i'd seen that i that i i was the guy shoveling way too much and so that that year eighty nine i did back off a little bit and the race was something special. That's for sure yeah and again. All this told on nineteen eighty-nine the story dot com intent chapters right so this is our ten. Let's call it ten stories and i just wanna read them off because this will give people a sense for sort of the background here and in the nitty gritty that that just just has thirty years later hasn't been told right so story won the race. It almost never happened story. Two two paths continents apart winter prepping for their historic clash story story three foreshadowing of kona gold coast of australia may of nineteen eighty nine a shift in focus a story four story five early august shift in the win n. by the way the wind was very low that that day in october of nineteen eighty nine <hes> story six ironman nine hundred eighty nine the race that almost never happened part two okay okay. That's going to be good part six world record training that no one ever saw i've heard some stories part seven or seven the numbers and the people who set them mm-hmm <hes> i got my numbers are story nine. Two men one race the untold stories of race week one thousand nine hundred nine that'll be good and then finally story ten ironman nineteen eighty eighty nine. <hes> you know what's amazing in everybody. Everybody talks about this. The fact that the the speed it will a couple of things as speed or the tha the the performance you guys had that day has stood the desk time those performances would have been top ten in two thousand eighteen at the hawaii ironman that if you think about that just forget that we evolve as athletes and training balls and diet of i mean think about the the the equipment on the bike i mean if you go back and watch the footage like in you see the bikes and the technology and equipment that's written today the aerodynamics the wheels the efficiency of it all just the efficiency of the drive train <hes> <hes> not to mention god who knows what the road surface was like on the queen k. and nine hundred eighty nine. You guys know better than anybody after imagine. It isn't anything like it was today <hes> arias today but these this performance was that extraordinary and the thing that that i look at it and i didn't realize this until i was <hes> studying for the show mark you ran to forty davy ran to forty one those marathon times at the end of eight. Hour day are incredible. What people don't think about about is that also includes the second transition right so now they break out t won the n. t. two and then obviously this bike and the run. They didn't do that back in the day so too. I don't know how long mark coming. How long did you spend t to but if it's a minute or two minutes that means you ran to thirty eight or two thirty nine right. That's that's correct landmark and i've had this discussion because i have a close friend who who has come to all my races named pat and that's a scientist assist in in he has all the splits from that particular race marks <hes> splits i don't have on the top of my head was to thirty eight something to thirty nine so that was the actual run time time that year and going into that race. I thought i capable of running. Six minute. Pace was two thirty seven thirty and that was of kind of my goal at least on paper but the action that time <hes> to forty four my time the official fastest time stood for twenty seven years patrick long broke a couple years ago finally going under to forty for the first time officially. You know <hes> that was something that dave and i did together. There's no way i could have run that fast on my own. There's no way i would have known how outta pace to be able to just get faster and faster and faster as a marathon went. We had very fast miles in town. <hes> going out onto the queen k- kind kind of settled into a rhythm to turn around and then it just started to ratchet back up all the way back to the finish which at that point was was a ten mile <hes> straight stretch back back to <hes> elite you drive in you know there's i don't know of many other records that have stood the test of time like that i think i i think bob biman's long jump record stood for twenty three years and that was mind boggling and then you know but again this that record that day literally was something that was like this effort. The two of us were doing together when we were running together on the queen k. You know this land because you're in that cattle truck with all the other photographers and everybody watching there were there was just a huge entourage following us in there. Was you know like you said the some of the people were cheering but most of the time it was like this dead silence in the only thing that was making noise was our four feet just pounding on that pavement achievement sweat soaked and just squishy sounding and it was it was really so it was like we were in this bubble together and people have asked we'll be talking to each other like what are we supposed to say. Dave how you doing man can get another coke or gatorade the next station now now and the the thing is when you're in a race like that you know you reach a point where you're just in this completely different kind of awareness and you sense things so differently and i could just i could just feel when dave was. Maybe a little getting a little tired like feel when he was stronger her. You know i didn't need. I didn't need to ask him with words because it's like we were almost in a in a way like one mind working together putting this thing together that that i think both of us at one point in our lives had envisioned but weren't quite sure how we're gonna make it happen and it happened because there were the two of us doing it on the same day yeah but i think that's common. I you know i i think back to all my years of lewd just being literally side by side but with a guy like john orrick <hes> yet just start to notice at least i'm. I'm speaking for myself but you start to notice. You just not know them. You know the way they move. You know the way they they breathe. You know the way a a drink. I mean it's just the way they sweat the way they cough and so it's just these little just these little factors that the that you store on the hard drive and and i'm not saying this is what mark you were. You noticed something about dave's behavior at that moment but when you spend that much time with another guy what you guys have spent a lot of time together together in in in races. You'd know right and that's <hes> that's actually a pretty amazing thing when you think about it like you learn so much about look look. I didn't even know yawn. Oric had we'd never even spoke with great friends now but we we didn't have conversation. We didn't go on vacations. We didn't do training rights nothing but you knew the man right you knew him. You knew you just you knew when he was a little off for starting to get off and then you're like aha i saw all that i saw is on them and it's it's a special. It's awesome. I'm getting chills. Just i'm talking about you know primarily because i love you guys love the way this this went down but i also love yawn and loved the memories that that he and i have together and <hes> but i think it's a thing i think it's real it it israel but the that particular race lanson and in most of the races mark strategy was as he mentioned was kind of feed off of me. I figured out so in eighty nine. Let's stay back a little bit so i'm not i'm not reading the signals in that race. I knew the guy right behind me beyond the swim was mark. Even though our times of virtually the same mark was on my feet. It was a good strategy and on the bike. He never once came up next i to me so i couldn't see his sweat. I couldn't see his breathing rate than see his body language on the bike but there were there were a couple of distinct times where i just said okay. I'm going to get rid of mark on the bike. This is it and it was about a three mile stretch and this is twice friday late late in the race and i've described this before but <hes> love that intuition that you just described this is a beautiful nature of of endurance racing where you do have the insight on your competitor are and i didn't have at that day and it wasn't wasn't disturbing to me. I couldn't get rid of mark on the on the bike and i said to you. My marathons been great. <hes> this is going to be the you the showdown when we start the run and then i could start reading his signals but his body language is facial expressions. I don't change much. It doesn't matter if these the drinking a glass of milk coined in in dubbed in branded the man you don't get to have all those characteristics as you described when your name your brand is the grip so alejos love right. I i love when i apply emails. I've just like hey grip. The who i've. I've never called anybody in my life grip. I've called a lot of people the man but like so that's that's why mark is the grip can i in because you guys just touched on this and and i know now that it's just strictly strictly forbidden this this sort of follow along on the run at the iron man and and obviously if that was the case in nineteen eighty nine i would not have been blessed to to seen what i saw in this historic race <hes> i i'm not. I don't like that rule right. I think i think and maybe there unless there's some really good reason to have that rule. I think there should i think there should just be see this trailing sort of entourage slash party slash cheering section out there. I think that should be allowed whether you're on a bike or you're on a skateboard. I don't know what you're but you're out like. It's just too long racist too long and lonely and be out there alone. Dude imagine like you guys have that day mark. You finally get away from dave and nobody seat. Nobody's there. I think we're not talking about this right now. If nobody's there <hes> the the t._v. footage but he it was so a dude it was mark when you finally got away it was so heh was like holy tyson getting knocked out by by somebody which never happens right and so but to have a crowd they're going. Oh my god it's happening. It was special and everybody was everybody was mesmerized. You know down to even the guys doing the camera work. I know this because i got a call from the producer of the the the show that was on broadcast national national t._v. I got a call from him the week after the race and he goes. I just want to tell you we missed it. When you really made your move and pulled away from day he said what was going on. Is that the the camera guy in front you who was filming. Oh munis was so mesmerized was getting so close to the finish and nobody knew when the break was going to happen that he completely a loss track of how much of his tapie had left in in his in his camera. He ran out of tape all of a sudden. There's no more tape and he's gotta pull the cassette out. Put another one in there. Get it up to speed and and you know start filming again. That's when your move when the move happened so he said we'll do our best. It'll look look pretty cohesive but we missed the move and so you lance and all people who are watching are the only ones who actually got to see exactly how it went down pretty wild yeah no. I'm i'm glad i <hes>. I'm glad i was there. I'm glad you know who who else was there. I don't know if he was in the truck that the great john tomac was was on the bay was at the ironman that year <hes> with his longtime and one and only sports agent <hes> charlie lipsky the late great unfortunately taken for many many years ago but <hes> he was also there is so i get to watch that i got to meet john tomac like it was like wow this is one. Hell of a a trip like this is working. This is working. That's great lance. When one of the things that you mentioned you certainly saw this in the tour as were. We're all catapulted in our races with the crowd. They're inspiring and obviously the close proximity and the tour where they're almost on top you on the climbs is a little bit too close but in that eighty nine races mark described we we have this <hes> kind of tunnel of people behind us an at times it was very very silent but we were aware there was a crowd and that was allowed at the time without impeding the other other athletes in the end. I think one of the one of the areas in in the ironman races is is to bring the crowd to the athletes in and we do so many hours of lonely training in preparation for the a nine race as i said said ninety percent of my time was by myself when i have people with their boost in me i will it is crazy inspiring and at the moment on the run where the cameraman missed it and i got the same ol' sorry about that guys we're kind of in this envelope of people and that was what are the chances we can have a rematch or sort of not reading. There's been a bit of retail. Maybe you guys have until up to a couple of months thirty thirty year ever shree. I'll tell you what i think a better idea as we get a couple snickers bars a few petronas and sit sit around. Watch the tape from nineteen eighty nine all somewhere where you can sit at one point mark you you you're out on a training run and you pass one of those speed checks and you were running six malia running ten minute miles basically so if that's truly the case that i know that they would kick kick your ass as it sits today but but who i don't i don't think so my heart's about the size of a road and after a a couple atrial flutter atrial fib treatments and so i was fairly athletic cocky even in my sixties but now i i've been reduced to kind of personal. I the i've i've can in horses aaron man at fifty or i want to say there. Was this amazing performance at at a later age. I didn't really have any amazing performance. I did at forty and forty two <hes> and i tried again in two thousand one and i actually had a meniscus tear when i did and i got to <unk> on. I have no horsepower and have dropped out. That was the last time that i gave an attempt and i thought about ten years ago that <hes> quietly i would come back and maybe that's gonna move of the i ran into <hes> s._u._v. select kind of her tail. Yeah that tends to do it rations and you guys both as we wrap up here and again. We're talking about nineteen eighty nine the story ten amazing untold right. We've we you know a lot of these stories. These are all this new newstalk right that you guys are gonna share with the world nineteen eighty-nine the story dot com but <hes> now. You're both <hes> you know mark. You're living in santa. Cruz debut of your down in boulder both have extremely successful coaching businesses with with at arsenal of athletes. Not maybe some swimming. There's some professionals but mostly <hes> just just your age group or that just wants to get that tattoo that dot tattoo so famously <hes> you see all around <hes> mm-hmm so you that's what keeps you busy both of you the the coaching side of things y- for me you know i do. I do coaching mark alan coaching dot com. I love it because age. Groupers actually for me are really fun to work with because they'll actually do what you tell them to do. And then they get faster you know pros are a little tougher. They have come to me hoping that some kind of magic will rub off but they don't want to change anything and if it's if what you're doing isn't quite get anywhere you wanna go. You have to change something so anyway i do that. I do corporate speaking <hes> do workshops with branch cicada who helped me in the years following following one thousand nine hundred nine to be able to pull off the six wins that i had we do workshop together called fit soul fit body and and we really look at you know how do you how can we help people full not only get fit and healthy but to you know get rid of all the mental clutter and chatter that just derailed your best self from coming coming out the hold you back. I mean we all have fear. We all have self doubt we all have we get angry over things but as <music> as you know lance when the gun goes off you can have all the fear in the world but as brandt said don't let don't let that fear hold you back go beyond it and that's what it had to do <hes> specially in one thousand nine thousand nine lining up on that start line for the seventh time the seventh time zero wins when i hit the start line and say okay lemme. Let me see if i can just get past all this junk that comes into my brain when the race isn't going in quite the way i hope and that was the first year that that that really started to turn around for me and dave you're equally as busy on on the coaching side. Dave scott inc dot com <hes> yellow a little bit. I have a membership program. They've scott tried club and joy hi doing that. I do several webinars. Each month and people can send me their questions so i'll say it's pretty intimate in that. We can <hes> you know. I have hands on on their needs. I kinda liked that. I liked teaching element of i've always liked the exercise physiology bio mechanics nutrition so of we cover all that and i still travel a lot <hes> i had to cone about five times a year. I've got a camp series over you. You know that's just starting to fill five trips to the four seasons. Hang on let me during it. I think somebody wants me to go to the four seasons seasons somewhere. I mean really that's amazing. Love happy come by land. So you know listen listen. I never have stayed there once. Never came by a cup of coffee or dinner until i had the opportunity to avid dancers i i'm grateful because it's pretty lavish beautiful place and it's a real hands on. We keep the numbers down and it's a lot of fun so i i am lucky. Be thereafter writing thousands of miles. Go and buy and mark and i we weed collide together. We're we're actually had an order needs to the seventy point three world championships in a couple of weeks and then of course will be back at that ironman again so we we do a little a bit of work for ironman and ironman you as well quick shout out to another grades triathlete. Susan dell susan michael dell actually owned <hes> or the family foundation or whatever owns owns at four seasons there on the big island and she's an amazing athlete why yes and a great great family. <hes> david in your son was either competing as a pro is a pro triathlete still or what's he doing. Drew drew was for a couple of years. He kind of came in pretty blind came from cross country. Nordic skiing background had a pretty good engine a few months when he was in his teens like you it fairly well really without any fitness and climb on the bike like a deer <hes> he does actually hold a few of the driver records here in boulder for -mongst all the pros and he tried it for a few years but he kept breaking bones. He had a couple fractures in his foot is out on a ride with me and unfortunately broke his clavicle and then in south africa before the ironman race race week he broke his back so he was always in a state of rehab and now he is a firefighter fighter based at a utah saving our planet so really changed service okay so just to wrap up and remind everybody talking about nineteen eighty nine the story dot com ten unique and untold stories that only these two guys can share with the world <hes> coming out ace wrap last thing i'll say before we go and this just this blows my mind. <hes> in two thousand fifteen yawn for dana won the hawaii ironman world championships young for dana is one of the best athletes that's ever hit the sport of triathlon. He can do it all he can swim. He can bike any can run like a gazelle and two-time olympic champion etc etc. He won the two thousand fifteen. Try a hawaii ironman in eight hours and fourteen minutes. I think just i'll let everybody sit with that and we'll leave with that. Both of these guys in nineteen eighty nine beat him. I mean that just that just shows how remarkable double that race was and and and mark thank you you said it right and dave i. I believe that you agree <hes> without the ham and the egg. We don't have that sandwich right. I'm an without the two of y'all in that way. It unfolded it. Just it never would've happened and i was <hes> as i've said many times too so fortunate and lucky to be there so fellas. Thanks for coming on today. I can't wait to read these ten stories and <hes> you guys are are legends simply. Put awesome. Thanks for having us on land appreciate uh-huh.