Where Do the Pacers Turn Without Victor Oladipo? | Group Chat (Ep. 374)
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You'll actually wanna stay at go to hotel tonight dot com or download the app now. Basketball is very good. Is actually a good team. Southbound is the most important broad court taser here and FOX's better than Donovan Mitchell. Basketball is Mary alone. Welcome to the ringer NBA show. This is the group chat group. That is hey O'Shaughnessy do that better than you do really? Well, I appreciate that thinking also as always we're getting I'm never going to try to do that one. That's great. We we like you just the way you are Pala perfect the tunnel grow. So we're going to talk about a few things today. All-star starters. Get tonight tonight is Thursday. We're also going to talk about in probably the Atlanta Hawks versus the Dallas Mavericks and some of the things going forward with both those franchises making people stop listening right away. Well, you know, they they come for us. They just want to spend time with us. They don't care about the topics. We're also gonna talk about mellow actually. Justice things on mill are always great. It's going to be a lively lively little segment here, especially because it wasn't an NBA site the other day, but I or on a somber tone victory will depot went down last night seemed pretty bad as soon as it happened. We got the news today from Shaam Sherani a- that it is a ruptured quad tendon, he's probably going to be done for the rest of the season. I guess kind of first thoughts here, obviously, it's a bummer. But beyond that, I do wonder what it pretends for the for the rest of the season for the Pacers. Well, I guess it just as a question of are they going to change direction? Yeah. And what this means for if other front office going to just stay with this team. I mean, the seem very likely would still make the playoffs probably wouldn't do much. Once I got in it. The question is what are they going to do with the off season their plans as of now, they are definitely leaning into. We are a win now team. I think. That the Tyree signing was like the biggest indicator that everything that they did this off season was a big indicator of that they were trying to put things around depot that would work because that's what they're missing last year. And they have a lot of expiring this year. It seemed like they were only going to keep getting guys who were win. Now. A lot of their players have looked better and have improved which is encouraging the timing for this is just timing. Anyway, her been terrible. But sa- bonuses looked a lot better Turner to remove Lauber defensively. Phenomenal. Yeah. So everything that they've wanted to work out. It's kind of worked out and even of late Terex looked a lot better. It's just it's such a bummer, but it will be a huge bummer if they decided to change your actions, it sucks because they were actually like one of the top teams in the east two and a half games out of first place thirty two fifteen and this is why think they can't really turn back the other way of that makes sense like they have their their their way too. Good to try to like. Tang for the second half of the season, which I don't think is even something they would do because they were still pretty good. When old people miss some time earlier in the season. Now, of course, he limits him being out for the entire season. Definitely puts a hard cap on their ceiling in the playoffs that you mentioned. But I do think that they could still win a first round series. Yeah. I guess the silver lining ear, and we can get into how this is kind of a bummer for all people. Just because of how he's in the past two seasons after he left Oakley. Okay. See and just kind of what it means for all star. Which is like it's always nice when a guy like Bill gets nominated for those sorts of things because I think he plays in Indiana. First of all, which you know, they don't get a lot of shine. But also, it's like you went through the two different teams to start his career. And finally came on the end, it's kind of like a symbol of like all the good things that he's been doing lately, I think on the the silver lining is you get to see a little bit more for some of those young guys. Like, you mentioned I think like they have a lot of money coming off the books here. It gives us a chance to kind of see what else is there in particular with Aaron holiday who guys. Like, I think everybody. Seems to be pretty high on. I don't have much of opinion on him yet. Just because I haven't really watched a lot of them. But I guess if you're saying going forward that we need to build the proper context around a depot now, you get a glimpse is basically we were saying about Anthony Davis when human down for this what? Now appears to be what one to four weeks you'd see what they have. Well, I think the other the other conundrum is that. So right now, they're third in playoff seeding there. Only two and a half games back from the first spot, and there's virtually no way that like the pistons who are night like they're going to be in the playoffs. I would even say that they're not going to drop lower than the fifth seed Aislinn, maybe Haley. Yeah. Agree with you. I don't think I mean, maybe the nets keep going on this run that they're having a note get the fifth seat, and then, you know, Pacers six, but the east is just so weak that they already have such a strong identity team that they're gonna stay up there. Here's the issue depot going down. So the bucks or the top the raptors or second right with this team. Exactly as. As it is. Before depot was injured. Nobody is going to believe that the Pacers would beat them. I don't know. I was I was Sandra -taining idea of which team the raptors are the bucks I could be given the series. Yeah. They're not getting past them. There was already sort of a ceiling on what they could do is. Currently we were talking about them making a move with it that I mean in slack about making the deadline for a Mike Conley perhaps, and how that would perhaps give them that level that we think that they could you know, compete with those top teams in now it just shows like that's not even that's like the Lisa concerned, Indiana trade or the draft is the only way to bring another started depot. And so it's just like this is studying the back so much that he's going to be offering entire season. And like you said, I think they have the defense. They're the second still the fourth in net rating. I think there is something there that they've built that will be able to sustain them throughout this run. I mean, I think the the big question is more going forward. Like, what moves you make? Now. What moves you? Make the next offseason and demeaning to start worrying about victory depot as a guy who maybe won't even be able to. Reclaim the height set. He's had the past few seasons. And you saw it even before he went down. I believe he miss double digit games with the knee injury. I don't know how much of that connects to this kind of debilitating one that he had today. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some calls in effect there by the way plays. Yeah. Absolutely. It's a great point. And I do wonder if that's gonna linger even on into like the next season or even past that what you really have because they are old people run team. He's been really great in the clutch for them. For instance, even though is shooting percentage has been down. So you've already seen signs that like if he's not going to be that guy. I don't know what you do there. There's a little bit more doubt than like, maybe we should've had previously. I don't they're not super reactionary the organization because I would like to see let's see of tyre can keep playing at this level. Let's see how much further. Myles Turner can go. This is a pretty solid base. It's not nearly enough at the top. But I just really really think it'd be a mistake to reactionary to this also interested in how Aaron holiday does. I he the few minutes he had earlier in the season. He looked really good. And there was even rumors that they were well, they're trying to trade Cory Joseph, and or one of Cory Joseph for Darren collison because they wanted to give Aaron holiday more minutes and won't now he's going to get more minutes through unfortunate situation. So that'll be interesting to see. Yeah. We'll see what goes on there. I personally would advocate for for getting ready to some of these expiring contracts. He's only because like you're in the position where you're probably gonna have to overpay to keep them. There's going to be a lot of money available on the market this summer what we're expecting and not a lot of players sign them. So I do wonder if a guy like that young who's going to be thirty one might get Little Richard deal. Then you're gonna wanna sign is the type of deal that like I wouldn't want to sign a player to there are a few those guys up and down the roster. Tyreek been pretty average most of the season. Even though he's come on a little bit later bogged. Boy on. Geez. I always get the bogdonovich is. But again twenty nine this team is there kind of reaching their expiration date. So that's the issue that they're kind of up against the clock in a way that I don't think we'd expect them to be. It's not the same advantage for other for some other franchises that to have all that space in free agency. Because again, they're not a huge agency destination. Also don't know if this changes are I don't know what they're gonna do with miles Turner hordes bonus. Because it seems like they're going to they're trying to play them together. And they've had a few stretches as wait where they've looked piecing together. But it does feel like one of one of them is going to have to be the guy that they picked the big that they had that the keeping that they pay. Well, they already pay Turner. But you know, like, and I don't know if this somehow changes that with all the going out, and I think if any if anything it gives them more time to figure it out. Yeah. It does set a different kind of date for them. If that makes sense because they have to be more patient there. Impatient. Now. But then that ties into a year saying, which is they have these guys who are twenty nine hundred like that young thirty one which they don't know what to do with my hands bonus believe, I think next year is the last year of his rookie contract so ably a for an extension this summer and going into November. So I do wonder what they'll do. I wonder I guess kind of this is another small silver lining. But like maybe some bonus Niks into the all star game to take depots place because as we seen lately, the east all-star lineup pretty grim. We can talk about that one right now here. I we'll find out the starters tonight, which is Thursday. Also, find out the captain's which I believe is mostly dictated by fan voting. But the rest of it is fan voting media voting player voting's fans. Get fifty percent of the total media is twenty five percent players. Twenty five percent. It's pretty bad in the east right now. Just to give you a glimpse at who's leading the voting based on third returns. It's Jaanus who is the leading bogut. Are. I believe overall Kawai in bead, kyri twain Wade. That's in the ease in the west. Lebron Luca our guy Paul George Steph and Derrick rose for some reason. I guess general thoughts you guys care about all star to begin. With is probably a good place to start. I I guess it depends on what you mean care about. I think it's more entertaining. Now that they have captains selecting like we're going to tell us to CA style. It's televised. See what order they're picked in. I think that that makes it a lot more fun. I've said this a lot. And I really don't mean it in a curmudgeon any way, I just don't think that we should have all star on the same level as the other awards that we give out with it being such a high percentage fan voting and with the way that fans vote. I mean, you see like doing weight, and there you see Derrick rose in there. It's kind of like they're doing it not based on basketball, totaling on the storyline. And that's kind of one of the essential. It's always been about it is it more for the fans is an event just to put on a show a spectacle. Moore's it just should be based purely on merit should because. It is. It is definitely for the fans. But I think that my my only problem with it is kind of. When I am writing something in I put he's a five-time all-star just going forward like that only is relevant in the context of someone being popular player. I would say though that while I grew with that. I think there there might be. I don't know what that threshold is. But there's a number. I think where we get to that number and then it becomes. Okay. This is this is meaningful. Like, if you're like two time all star in the sky made it in twice because of popularity board whatever not actual merit. But if it's like a five time guy with seven-time guy. You're like, okay. Like that means something you know, what I'm saying. Like, I don't think I don't think it has them. Like, I think I agree with you in that carries less weight than we maybe think, but I think if there is repetition over time multiple appearances, then that should tell you something. I think if anything I just think it's means less and less. Yeah. And then like the way and rose thing is just such a like slap in the face to this season. I'm just like you can have there's no one more. Eligible really like especially in the west. Well, that's what up Kobe too, right? I mean his last season go I mean Jordan's last season. Basically got in based on that. I mean, yeah, there's a lot of it was the starters are definitely fraud. I mean, it gets a little bit better because coaches decide the reserves, but even then they'll like nominate guys that you wouldn't expect there's usually one or two guys in each class where it's like, I could kind of see it. But there were probably like two or three guys that are probably more worthy of that spot. And also like it Sultan, people getting bigger bonuses. Anthony Davis memorably didn't put on all MBA team. But also, I believe he didn't get all-star starter that year in lost. What would have been an extra five percents? Definitely not being contracts. That's insane. Which was always a difficult matter because as a media, and you're voting on it, you essentially get to dictate whether or not this person gets more money, which should never be in the hands of lying anybody. And makes it really uncomfortable. When you have to tell them again vote for you. I can't remember I think I'd vote for him. Have you told somebody that? York done. I think it's public if you really cared. He could have looked up to see like what I did with him to his face. I'm pretty sure I made it pretty public. I respect that. There's a while. Yeah. Wow. Voting. But I don't know. Like, I think you could see the discrepancy between just like the fan voting first of all. And then like for instance, what Kevin O'Connor put on the site. The other day. I think there's in terms of just starters. And that's what we'll figure out tonight. I think there's like one spot and each of the conferences because even though we are going to do the the captains picking teams here. They're still giving up votes based on conferences. I think it is interesting. There's like once-power it's like it can go anyway for in terms of locks in the east. I would say Kyrie Embiid Janas qua- Aldred, but then that lasts spot which has to be a guard spot, which what is a guard to begin with. I have no idea. But like who do you give that? I would give it to the ultimate guard, Bradley Beal. What is it guard? He is gone shooting guard. Yeah. True. You know? I I think he's been really good, especially with John wall. So I would give it the Bradley view personally. Kemba not the ultimate guard building. Guard now forever referred him as that. Yeah. Cameras. An interesting one definitely like the Hornets of slumped a little bit here. I believe they're eighth right now in the Eastern Conference anything seventh all-star over all MBA is worthwhile. Because Kemba should not make all MBA. It's a different how much I'm curious. How much do you guys factor into your picks? How the team is doing. Well, all star. It's not nearly as much. Probably personally probably because they're more spots. I guess in all star. Right. What is all MBA fifteen where we're giving of twenty four and all star. So he could be a little bit more lenient. I factored in when it comes down to the west, for instance, in merges like haggling over like like percentage point in this rate or something like that. Like that event. It starts to matter. So Anthony Davis, non you're not you're starting to you didn't vote. That's an interesting question. Because that's another big way is your guard for the east. I would probably lean Simmons smart, what KO C had to add its weight is like so crazy. It's it's it's all a fan like farewells by. Yes. All it. And I is. Players mind is like Dwayne Wade has been amazing. It's just manufacturer like thirty thousand jerseys trade with everyone like. Grams jersey that he got from China for like five dollars. Yeah. No. I don't know. I don't feel good about the Simmons vote. I would vote like four different players in the west of him. Yeah. Yeah. Would you guys be like because I know it's idea has been kicked around is like scrapping conferences for the all star. Yes. There's no reason that there should be a starter is right or anything. Yeah. I mean, it I imagine it stems from the same reason. They don't switch it for overall. She's like which east teams and executives in owners would ever agree to that. Like, it looks good. If they have and all star. And it looks good for Charlotte. For instance, if Kemba Walker starting all start yet. So I I don't know if I would ever pass. Yeah. I would go Simmons. I don't feel great about. It depot would definitely have been the Mexican. He's healthy in in before that the there were issues like if he had enough games played. Yeah. Other than that. There just aren't a lot of qualifying guards. Which is really the shows you the dearth of talent in the easier where like half the teams aren't even like worthy of spot in the NBA. And the west is is the front court though, you have currently let's see here. Stephan harden. I think we can all agree are. Yeah. Pretty much lots or they should be logs. If not for Derrick rose, or wherever the hell is gonna get in if any Davis Katie in Yokich or who Kevin picked what do you guys? I think actually maybe even to those spas can change amazing vomit. I would keep it the same. And I'm so sorry LeBron. I never thought this day would come. But he's just missed so many games a lot of games. Oh god. I feel so dirty. She would that which other to keep amongst Etienne. Katie Katie, you'll get ya. I would do eighty K de Paul George. Yeah. Georgia is going to be the interesting one. It's really tough to leave him out. I also wonder like would you put him in over Steph like just because of the missed games? No. Because like there's another level to Steph that when he's on the court and how he's looked when he has played that I this is kind of maybe a little hypocritical in changing my like parameters if you will. But it so above everything else that I that you see that it transcends like the Mets games. I think what stuff in particular. Yeah. I would see this is where I would knock it defer for wins. And maybe give someone like Yokich the nods simply because I think this is where like because starter versus reserved like in the grand scheme of thing doesn't really make much of a difference at all probably gets skewed based on fan vote more than anything just because like popularity and then it gets into this whole diced conversation about what is an all star. I would probably go Yokich Katie LeBron if only because the Lakers have stayed in the playoff conversation when the Broncos healthy. I don't feel great about that. I would just. Let me FOX Platon. But one of the interesting ones, I do think is Luca being so high up there in the fan voting. Yeah. I don't know what it is. Maybe like Madrid comes out in full force in Slovenia. Like, I mean is a big market. And so, but all of a sudden he's just as popular as LeBron James, which is insane. I mean, he's you have to think about it this way he was already coming into league as a teenager. Yup. With a international fan base behind him that could be the case or they're just like working the Google machines in like, I mean, they're they're just like really active online voters. Of making like Russia Russian style. Bought a good. I wouldn't put it past. For me. I would do it for go to fix us. A like. I don't think he should be a starter. I don't even know if you should be in the also game you just said, he should he's not you're starting lineup. Yeah. No. I'm just saying like, I get why the voting is this high ab-. I I do think that there is value to how much we just converse about these players like not that bring her MBA's like Representative larger sample, but we have probably he's probably one of our three most talked about players this season. Just in terms of what we are discussing. So I mean, if that correlates out to, you know, not just Twitter, but the voting body of the fans, and yeah, that makes sense. It's kind of opposite of like wait in rows and being reminiscent of them. It's exciting in its new you think it's actually pretty interesting to get a glimpse at what like fans think. And they're this is definitely fraught because I don't know how these votes are getting tabulated. They can't do it on Twitter anymore because Justin Bieber got involved and all of a sudden like the raptors players were like through the roof in terms of voting. But. I think it's like Representative like we know that Dwayne Wade shouldn't be there. We know Derrick rose shouldn't be there Luca most likely not shouldn't be a starter. Maybe he's a reserve bowl of a sudden you start to see where people are gravitating to in an almost like it gets me out of my little bubble. Yes. That like yet. Dwayne Wade is a superstar, right? Who is beloved in plays in the Miami market. That's among one of the bigger ones. Are you surprised at all that you honest is not just in as the starter being voted by fans, but also like one of the top owed gutters because? Yeah, there is a sense that I'm still thinking about he's a Milwaukee. And that's not a big market. And like, yeah, he's amazing. He's very much a highlight creator, which has a lot of I think currency these days in some ways. And but but I'm just sort of surprised by that in terms of just the market 'cause I I didn't think he had that huge following in that sense. And it's great point. I don't really get a good read on him. I get the sense that based on like some of the merchandising sales. They released from. The NBA that he is pretty popular. Now, he also has an international following. And I think it speaks at this whole thing like like how big is the NBA internationally, and how many votes are coming international you'll really transcend their market, and he's one of them Kempson example of someone who doesn't yes, we've never talked about Kemba. They're just not very good. I I think Charlotte is the small I think it might be New Orleans, actually, but New Orleans Charlotte. Memphis are among the small. So I forget what podcast. I was listening to today, but they were talking about which was the status team in the NBA that you felt like the most sorry and somebody said, Charlotte. I wish I could remember, and I just totally agreed. It's like them or the pistons there since I was from. Yeah, we're not talking about them for multiple reasons. But both of them are just so stuck. Yes. I don't know the pistons would be that was from it just because I mean, I don't know everybody saw the Blake Griffin. Reggie Jackson video last night. I was like of this trading. Mike conley? Sure, why not do it. I would not wish that upon my comedy. But those amazing is playing with this Blake finally get off. Reggie jackson. That's exciting. And this I actually like Charlotte. I spent some time there during the playoff series. I think like, yeah. Charlotte's lovely good barbecue. Nice people. But that's not what we're talking about. The other issue there. I guess the difference between Detroit and Charlotte. Charlotte is in the south and buses a little bit more football leaning, Charlotte is very much Panthers town, and so I think there's just not much of a fan base to draw from there and like the team left for a while. And then came back, so there's that kind of divorce, but there there is a certain astrologer for that like adorable Bumblebee mascot that they have Jones. Speaking of all stars. I'm gonna make this transition is not gonna work, but we're going to go with it. Anyways. Guys. Did you know that the Golden State Warriors are playing the Washington Wizards tonight rough I think we're gonna call this the watch of the night. I I'm really excited about the Washington Wizards going forward. I think Bradley Beal the recall. Ultimate the ultimate guard. We need to get on your shirt off of that. But I'm super excited about this team. We were watching on a Sunday. I believe Bill just go off in Toronto and that overtime game. They're one of the best watches currently. I think I'm not just saying that because the warriors. No, I'm talking about the wizards. I the warriors again Hostetter and scam. I right. I know should read about him on the radio dot com should go. Do it extensively. But no, I think there's something about that team. There's a little bit more of a spirit, and I think they're also really interesting to watch leading into the trade deadline because if they just kind of flubbed it over the next couple of weeks says we, you know, the cleric reported the other day, I think there's a chance that like maybe auto Poors back on. It's really really fun to watch Bradley Beal when he has his energy agree. Someone's like he should be center of the team. Imagine that. That game is on TNT tonight at five PM Pacific. We don't do eastern time here. So you could make the math yourself. And remember if you watch every NBA game subscribe to NBA league pass on MBA dot com. Amazon or your local cable or satellite provider. We're gonna take a quick break. And then we're going to talk about the hawks in the Mavericks for a little bit. The ring are NBA show is sponsored by brilliant earth. Create your own custom engagement ring from a variety of ethically sourced, diamonds, gemstones, metal types and settings. 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Oh getty. Yes. The Atlanta Hawks who traded the rights of Luca Danni for trae young have a lot of other young guys John Collins, Kevin wetter and a bunch of draft fix going forward. The debate here is which team as I guess the best runway going forward. I just want to say, I don't like the adversarial nature of. This throw Luca like as pro guys you can get. So that's not the argument here is not how contacting him to just turn all their attention very much for Luca. I just want to say that out front. So I'm not anti the Mavericks and what they're doing. Yeah. Polly was just a question. Yeah. He he texted me the other day and thought what did you say I said kind of random or weird question. What if the hawks actually have a better situation or core going forward? Then the Mavericks is when you guys are Texan about at night. Yeah. In the middle of the night shift, the diligence in I know that that's hard to sort of parse through brilliant think about because Luca is already such a transcendent talent. But I'm just looking at this maverick semen. I don't know what they're gonna do around him. Now granted that may be come more clear in the next few months next year, which should given that they have a talent like that. But it seems like with the hawks and we've seen it as of late. They've really come on late. They have an identity to have a system they have a young coach who is willing to put in the time to develop these players Mavericks. I don't know if they do and they have a good front office. A lot of people from the warriors came to the hawks and trae young has like good in some spurts tough another spurts, but he has hit Kevin herder John Collins, you have another chance at a top three pick. Probably I don't I just there's something about it that feels very progressive. And I do think that they they still need that Luca type star. I don't think I don't think trae, I know if trays can be that or maybe he will at some point. But in just in thinking about those situations. I just wonder it's more of an indictment on I guess not an indictment, but more of a curiosity about what the Mavs are going to do around around go. Well, I think you know, maybe we'll see the same kind of change in trae that we did in second year Darren, but I just think that their timelines are so different. So that's why it's hard to already Cuban is looking at Luka's. Okay, great. We can pivot away from tanking. I hated that. And they are very much already in a win now situation not necessarily that they have the pieces, but that's their mindset. I mean, look at who they've surrounded him by the only other young person they have was rumored to be in trades last week. And who knows like it seems kind of like he's unhappy even though now they're like outwardly rekindling it. I'm not. I'm not sure what's going to happen with that in the offseason. But also the Mavericks have a lot available to them this offseason in terms of cap space. And I don't think it's going to be difficult for them to sign somebody. You think it's an interesting look at just like the expectations you can afford upon yourself by making some of these moves Luca hits immediately. And all of a sudden, you're kind of expected to do something with that. I think they have a golden opportunity. I mean, we talk about this a lot because I think Kevin Clark in the NFL kind of with the tracks for this that when you have a star on a rookie contract. You could do so much else with all those means like in the NFL you could spread it around. You all this other stuff you seen with the Sixers and we've talked about this. Ben Simmons being on his rookie contract. They can go out this summer, and they still have enough cap space. I believe if they get rid of Marquel Foltz to go at it a fourth guy to what they already existed and still have Jimmy Butler. And so you've almost put pressure on themselves by nailing that Luca pick. I think the thing with them is there's always been a question are they a caste based team? Or is this the type of team that should have probably built through the draft along time ago. And like he mentioned they're going to have a lot of money available. But who are they signing? Exactly. And so how does that affect what they're going to have? Because if they don't dig themselves out of kind of the trenches here, they're not gonna have the draft pick because it's top five protected. I think that the way to look at this as comparing it to lash with with Donald Mitchell, right? He like broke all his records shocked everybody. Nobody was expecting Utah to suddenly build the team around him. Now will be very very difficult for Utah to do. Whereas with the Mavericks, I do think they have the ability to do that. I think that there are a lot bigger draws in organization than we're giving them credit for I don't know how players personally feel about Cuban. But I mean, there's some evidence at the I mean chiller persons used to go to the club with him. Right. You know, what I mean like far worse owners in bigger markets that you don't want anything to do with playing. With Luca is an enormous dry. You know, players can see. That already. I think that they've been smart in the past. They've been smart with players that they've surrounded centerpieces with Texas has no income tax. It's not A or Miami. But it is a great franchise in has great fan base. There's history there that I think that normally we only give to places like Boston or LA like younger players, especially now Z the Mavericks as a good organization players are going to want to be second pieces to a team where you have a twenty year old the as the leader of team. But what types of players are going to accept that reality. And like you just mentioned there are plenty of things that could alert you alert players Mavericks at the same time. You know, maybe not not everybody might be cut out for seating to a twenty year old. Yeah. And I think a big thing is you see a lot of these guys who want to go play together is usually because they've laid those seeds like when they were twelve and a you and all these guys are. We talk about Anthony Davis. Hey, maybe he go Mike go to Boston. I don't think that's even a question of Cairo Irvine is there because those guys get along. So well, so I think that is an important part of it. We don't factor in a lot of these guys are just friends who've been playing with each other forever on the other side of things. I do think it's really interesting that the hawks have built this kind of really exciting context from if anything they traded having one star players and all the good debt and bad that come with him with having like just endless opportunity, and it's it's a weird balance because like Luca on one hand provides you just a cornerstone they can go forward with and like you just put the right guys around him. And all of a sudden you have a title contender for the next decade. The on the other hand, you have all these different pieces. But like, you don't have the one piece. And so wondering like would you rather have the one and nothing else or would you just have everything else? But not the one I think definitely the one because we have right now with the hawks, I think not best-case scenario worst-case scenario, but right in the middle. Is like young clippers right now. Where do you think about the best franchise in how many years, you know, arguably the best team in history grew from the ground up drafted Steph curry drafted Klay Thompson, you know, what? I mean. Like, I think that getting someone in young and figuring out what to do around it with someone who's as talented as Luca like is one hundred out of one hundred times the answer your it's hard because I always think about the leading this way. And I talk about it this way, they it is very much superstar driven and that is the key to winning getting that superstar. But I don't know there's something about the hawks that I find the learning in sense that they one of you know, like I said, I think trae young is still a TVD, but they the the groundwork is there for player too. I don't know if they'll be free agency down the line. But or for some for player to come in and become that, Don Ryan Mitchell type, you know, what I'm saying? So. Or they could just drives I on. Right. I mean, that's the thing. I was going to say is they're going to have to top ten picks most of the top ten picks. And because of the flying odds going into this draft they have even better shot at their at their I pay going in the top three or maybe even top in one. I think what if they are EMA is not necessarily the young core. But the picks they have going forward because you put like someone likes ion in with that mix then. Yeah, that's extremely attracted. I think is really interesting is that all that would have existed for the hawks. If and they could have just had Luca like, they just didn't make the Luca trade. They could've had gone, Colin. And I believe where do they they had that pick regardless Wetering with Dallas. And then some of these other guys making the back. So they just went up have two picks in the end. It's coming crap. But again, Luca kind of turns out because he's been SOGA. So I do wonder if you ask them, you know, on like truth serum or something with. Listen trae, regardless of all the kind of good and bad. He's had up and down this year. You know, his the migos stamp of approval. And that's really something. You can't put a price on. We're gonna take another really quick break. And then we're gonna go and talk about mellow once and for all for the last time ever. Two thirds of guys experiencing noticeable hair loss by age thirty five most guys assume losing their hair's inevitable as they age. Some don't care some shave their head some embrace hats. But what they don't know is that there are FDA approved medications designed to stop hair loss, and even regrowed hair. That's why we're excited to partner with our sponsor Roman Roman makes it easy to get safe. FDA approved hair loss treatment, all from your phone or computer. And when you go to get Roman dot com slash ringer. 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He was playing pool and doing other things on Instagram fishing. While still being on the rockets roster. They traded him last week. The Chicago Bulls essentially just to get off his luxury tax money. Unfortunately, James Nunnelee was lost in the process. RIP James Dunaway who? Who? Yeah. So bad those I I didn't I didn't. I mean, they can just sign them again in like this. But the big question here going forward. I think is what what is left for one Carmelo Anthony. I think Kayleigh had some really strong opinions that there is the sense. I guys you still think that there's something left for this. I have a lot of pity for for players and not necessarily mellow in this exact sense. But for players who are put into a position that they are not equipped to handle. And then they are totally hated for it. The best example is awesome overs you on the clippers. I mean, I got dogged by just like the conversation about him rather than his actual, exactly. He had too many minutes. Dad was a coach like he was totally set up for to not handle the role that he was given with mellow. I mean debt be basically put it on himself. He was not willing to accept a smaller role. He made such a big deal of wanting to be a starter. Even when he got to the rockets. In the beginning. He was saying that I mean by all the way back in. Okay. See the things he was saying, we're just ridiculous. He laughed in that press conference where they asked to consider coming off the bench like look at what your buddy Dwayne Wade's doing, you know. It's okay to age. Well, and when you set that standard you probably won't I mean look at his game. But here's my argument. Mellow could still help a team in appropriately reduced role with a change of heart. I don't think he's going to have a change of heart. And that's what's such a bummer, but I could name twenty guys in the league right now that he could be more helpful than my my. My counter is more of like a pedantic sort of thing. Whereas I wonder how much of it is been willingness versus inability I do think that is a type of player win in a different era. He might not have had this sort of success that he had throughout his career. He's essentially a volume score. And while I think we diminish that a little bit more than we should. I think that that skill is just like super important. I think you could see that in the way that like guys revere him like I think that when the most of the league agrees that this guy is kind of a killer as a scorer like we should take note of that and realize that there are certain things that that pretends in like that kind of that how that helps a team that might not show up in a stash sheep, but I do wonder if that sort of game will not be able to be condensed into limited minutes in. So if you essentially comes down to the math words like if you were inefficiency but taking a lot of shots. That's fine. Because you can get points that way. But if you're doing it in fewer minutes that just means you're a bad player. Yeah. And also when especially when you're a minus on the defensive led us here, you're not bringing anything which in the playoffs gets exasperating. Yeah. The next did not do him any favors because I just let him continue playing as he had. There are other people who had similar style games who realized that they needed to tweak things to age appropriately. Whereas he stayed with the Knicks his ego state with the next first so long, even after it was not helpful that he never really changed. He was averaging thirty minutes in his time with the rockets that is insane. He's never going to help you at in that large of a role. And plus, you know, they were having a really hard time and bringing him in at that point in the season was kind of like, oh, this is our fix, and you really like can't put all of that on him. As a player as a person in personality. This is like completely as fault. He didn't wanna leave the league. Like, he he was so obsessed with his pride in with his legacy that now he is probably going to leave the league as a punchline the corner that I'm speaking of myself in this argument is that I I get why from a basketball perspective, we have to you know, kind of rag on him for not adjusting not aging, well and not like being willing to take on a role. The human side of me is like this guy had to have this sort of confidence this sort of ego thieving get to where he was in the league. And that's just a him too. Many superstars both him. Specifically, it seems like kinda like you said it continued on in New York and just build on that foundation. That already had a being like a player that was elite, you know, an elite score. And I think when you have that it's very hard to completely changed from that from like a human. Effective. And then at the same time, you know, I think that the opinion of him is not like, I I don't think it will matter in ten years like my you're like twenty one and under like, this is not what you're going to remember from below. I just don't think we're going to think about in five to ten years. We're not going to think about how it ended. We're just gonna see that mental had a bunch of points and got a lot of money and just how to be a career without a ring. And that's probably a hall of Famer. Yeah, fine. He definitely like the find Inara Ryan BA like he Dwayne Wade. Lebron all those guys that was like they were some of the most important players for over a decade. I don't think we're actually even arguing so much as like pointing out like why if it cly he isn't working, and I think to Haley's point like Houston wasn't the proper context for him to really like show whether or not he could transition into a lesser role. I do think like they had all those injuries. And all of a sudden he was playing way too many minutes. And then his defense got exposed. I would I I do think that perhaps he deserves a second chance. But I also think that one of the big things from quanson like stats based guys like John holliman back day was always that we give too much credence to reputation and guys who had done it in the past and give them too many chances when in actuality probably should be giving more chance at the guys without those names like guys like Daniel house. And I think it's really interesting that a team like Houston made that decision the big question going forward. I think is the Houston's the same team that signed Chris Paul until he's like fifty. Yeah. No. I think you still need stars. But like the guys the filth roster like giving the James none ways. Like well. I think chances looking to people who are established he can pull it off obviously Christmas still good level, but they are going to be paying for him. And while into the contract itself is bad Chris Paul's production, when healthy is still very I think that would be the distinction. This is Joe Harris league now. It's not a matter. What it is. I love my bearded brethren. Do we see any team that you guys would want kind of tickets? The laker. No, well, that seems like the most likely outcome. Here bought grades or contact to save a team. I would really like to see him in San Antonio. Yeah. That's a good because they are a team that has a really good system. Obviously Popovich, I don't know if pop could survive, but I do think that. The way they've catered their system to their starters as in Dhamar in the markets in the mid range. And then their bench has more of the three point oriented guys. I think could make mellow valuable in some way in just the way that utilize the mid range at do think. It's interesting that Santoni is the litmus test. Yeah. Yeah. Basically, if you could survive in San Antonio here, you're okay in our books and say I want to see. Son, Dennis Smith junior. They're all all the outcasts. I think he would be interesting in a couple places. I think Portland is one team that like like talked about maybe adding him before he went to the thunder. I think that's the type of move Portland can make and say that we tried to shake something up without actually trading CJ McCollum, which we wouldn't want to happen because then CJ will just sub tweet the ringer again. I think that would be interesting, I think and then Golden State Warriors. I think just Adam throw him in there. And then I think it's just like every we have five stars when I love guys with with reputation. Yes. That's the theme of this episode Haley, we put that as the show title these fucking off. And that would be fun. I mean, that'd be fun from like a attention in like just. But but but think about it. They have nothing to lose. Right. And it would be the most his minutes is taking. I mean, just put him on the bed and just have them hang out with lying out. Actually, I do want him to go to as we can finally get that ring got to put on it. All right. That's it for this episode of proof chat. Enjoy the all star voting, and we will talk to you next week basketball is very good. Carrie?