061: Are Film Projects Reaching a Boiling Point for the Services?
You're listening to the. Stream was the podcast that discusses all of the latest happenings regarding your favorite streaming services. Find out which is winning the war this time around? Leash is sort of the string wars. I'm Dustin Twentieth and we're here to discuss everything from June twenty fourth to July seventh. Maybe ask yourself what happened the episode last week. Well, let me just take a quick moment to one. Thank everybody who reached out to US asking where the latest episode was and quite honestly looking for the new episode in general. We've gotten to the point where you expect a new episode every single week. Week and I apologize, but the long the long short story is that I previously was in a house with my family I lived there for about ten years, and I reached recently purchased a new house and moved, and while I was trying to get everything up and running to line up perfectly, so that I could still record didn't get this show edited and get it out for on time as usual. It unfortunately just didn't. Didn't work out that way. I was having some Internet issues that I was having Internet for about twenty four hours. And then it would completely crap out and yes, so long story short I had Pat Internet's I moved I've been extremely busy and now I'm getting caught up or solve this happens, and the past two weeks have been chocked full of news way more than the last couple of weeks prior to me moving so i. I clearly picked the wrong time to move, but we have a ton of news to cover, and while we don't necessarily have a ton to actually discuss, there is an absolute stockpile of stuff that has been announced over the past couple of weeks, so we're going to dive straight into the news and start off Netflix's so I up chicken run. Chicken was a film that came out twenty years ago and there's a sequel from. Animation, it's going to be coming to Netflix in the future last chance you is coming to an end and there a basketball spinoff that is currently coming up next. There's a film adaptation of Verandah the documentary. That is in development. There is the upcoming video game cyberpunk twenty seventy seven is getting an anime series. There is a Dutch series called dirty lines that has been ordered to series. There's a new limited series coming from polling tapper, Nick, and Eva Varney, and then there is a Netflix is going to be adapting dead end dea into an enemy series for a Williams is going to be doing a series called voices of fire, which is a documentary. Following Gospel choirs than there is the dead to me Creator Liz. Feldman has signed an overall deal with Netflix and we've talked about this in the past, but to give a quick update Aaron Sorkin. The trial of the Chicago seven is in fact heading to Netflix's, we had previously reported and that is. That was ended up being a deal for about fifty million dollars now specifically I know we have talked about some of these movies and how they've been picked up in price, but in comparison it is nowhere near as much as some of the projects. That apple's been spending feverishly at a very high rate for agreed. I read this and I think the headline. Is that oh? Yeah? They bought Sorokin's Charles Chicago seven for fifty million. We're GONNA break that number and a little bit with. The deal that apple has done. Let's just say it's. It's definitely over fifty million in so I'm kind of surprised that it is for fifty million I. Wonder What this is about. The movie I'm general why Apple TV guest in push price higher, but. I think it's just A. It's recently the market for what we think of these big movies, and what are the the numbers we expect where used to P. fifty million for a feature film was a lot, and it was a big number to talk about, but the now it's. It's kind of almost. Every the article. I thought it'd be a little more just skipping who it was the level in this stuff like that so but yeah, it's Netflix's buying properties, so that's interesting. Yeah, and it's interesting because I think a lot of people will just associate Netflix's with having the biggest piggy-bank to spend on content, and while they certainly spend an enormous amount of money on content is interesting when we see some of these movie deals of movies that are. Were originally planned for theaters that are no longer going to be in theaters and the services and how much they're willing to pay for these films. We know that Netflix's has personally spent upwards of fifty to one hundred million dollars in some of the films that they're their own original films that they've done in house that have done very well for them and have garnered them a lot of attention. The one thing that I think I would really want to know. Know more about is how exactly it is that these films Trans Translate into subscribers. Obviously they'll always tout if a movie is very successful. No say how many people have actually watching her. Give their their convoluted numbers that sometimes don't mean anything to a normal person, but if you sit there and you say you've got fifty million people watched the film in the first couple of weeks. How does it actually translate into how much money they're actually spending and that's the. The part that would love to see a deep dive on hopefully our friend, the entertainment strategy guy. He put something together in the future about that because I think the biggest thing is when you have a film that does really well. You get a film in this also applies to a property like Hamilton. Hamilton was originally meant to be in theaters Disney plus needed some content. We know they spent seventy five million dollars on it earlier this year. They ended up. Up releasing exclusively on Disney plus and the question is, are people actually going to sign up for the service? Just for these projects now Hamilton could honestly see him. We're going to talk about that because we already actually no Bischoff, so some APP numbers that people clearly have signed up for the service because of it, but when it comes to some of these films. I guess the question is. How is Netflix warranting one hundred million dollars for a film? When even? Even if somebody e, even a fifty million people are watching it. Some of those people are already subscribing. So how is it that they are okay with spending that much money and how does that translate long-term for for the service, so I really like to see something about that, but another project that is actually going to be coming to net flicks is Cobra Kai, and you may be seeing to yourself. We isn't that a youtube original and it was it was. Was Youtube original for the first two seasons, and we recently talked about how youtube could be getting out of the original content game as the at least as far as the original scripted content like we see here with Cobra Kai, however, we know that they are still actually creating some I guess the best way to put his youtube like content similar to creators, just creating content the way we typically associate with Youtube, but not the original scripted series that we typically. Typically associate with streaming services, so Cobra Kai has actually been picked up by Netflix, and it's going to actually have the first two seasons available on Netflix as well so if you were unable to actually check out Cobra Kai on Youtube, it'll be available on Netflix very soon along with the third season and I. Guess the part to me. That should be highlighted is the fact that this was one of the few series that ended up being successful enough tube to? To keep getting multiple seasons, and it shows that youtube just doesn't this. This isn't what they're focuses because if they were willing to let this show walk and it was as successful as it was just. This is not their game. They're going to be focusing on some other things. I've ever the news article few days ago and I was like well. That's a little bit surprising just because Cobra. Kai is one of the few pieces of content that youtube originals. Accessible at and so that was surprising to me to see how. How they're basically giving their best piece of content there golden goose per se. They won't get this weekend to a major competitor to net flicks onto the king of streaming right now, so that was just a little bit surprising to me, so it's not so much good thing for net flicks I mean it is a good thing for Netflix because a decent show and it's got a good following mom. There's plenty of spinoffs for the future and property on the Corp. with to sustained the you know the Karate Kid the Cobra Kai whatever brain for the future, but for me. It's more indicative of Youtube Youtube originals in kind of Howard. They move in. Are. They going I think there's just something we keep a close eye on, too because they are still a little bit part of the space I know that they're kind of like almost more or less I'd consider them a lot like qube or talk snapchat in the realm of just short form content, and I know they haven't reached knowles, but if you look at like the people who use their happens to pick that it's, it's the metrics. We use you very much like a mobile APP it's. He pulled video with a quick. You Watch it and he put away like you don't leave only binge content usually on Youtube Online, cure, big TV or just to monitor Time is just the usage rates of of you very interesting, so I think it's just it's just interesting to see how Google and Youtube are moving out of the original space. And maybe you're going to try to move into some little bit different, but. But another they have been spending a lot of money. It doesn't seem like the investment has been worth it on there, and so it's just. It's weird to see just like Indonesia of Youtube. Originals I mean I remember when it was them and like Yahoo screen back in the day. l. those brains were restarted in l.. Youtube screen. Obviously in a yahoo screen is obviously nothing any more than brutal seems like it's transitioning out of what it used to be into. So just seems that the end of an era which is not bad. It's not like saddened. Anything is just derails. The Youtube is is not good for that area so surprising all right so then jumping over the prime video. There is a serious called Nancy. Wu done it, which is coming to the service. Amazon has announced they're going to the now have a watch party option available for prime video and the westworld creators putting together a series based on the video game franchise fallout Amazon has committed to A. A series for that as well, the westworld readers Jonathan, Nolan and Lisa Joy. They actually signed an exclusive with Amazon. This is clearly the next property that they're going to be working on and then finally. Amazon is expanding into live television. Their expansion into live television. That is seems a little bit more likely. There's been some things popping up some job things and while Amazon has actually gone on to explain that is not the case, and that the translation of these positions is not related to live TV. TV I honestly believe it's only a matter of time before something like this actually occurs. It's interesting I mean. We were talking off air about some of the other players in the you know why television space distributor in until the space in it's just. It seems that they're all these providers in seems like Hulu. TV are kind of the one two in terms of the leaders in this space, but it doesn't seem like people are extremely satisfied with the product in our satisfieds. It could be because I feel. Feel like there's a lot of there's still a lot of value all talk about streaming all this stuff. It's who still value in traditional live pro gaming either sports, or maybe you doing word show, or maybe he's just other content like people instead of with dealing with normal cable in that way. Use Your Internet stream stuff around so I, think that there's still a big giant pool of users who want traditional in your content. Obviously, we're moving away from that, but it doesn't seem like there's a product that's. Meeting People's needs in the best possible, never feeling, the Amazon could steamrolled on the market I mean offer a decent service. won't have all those, will it whistles, but we'll have decent service. Decent contents available pretty much wherever region you are, and the price is going to be a lot cheaper than these are the competitors I think that's going to be the key, and if you can offer live TV with all the regional deals working out and stuff like that. With the normal prime subscription I mean that's huge. I mean paying one hundred bucks to get to shipping or better depending where you live uniprix video, prime live TV prime music I mean like that's a that's a hell of a deal, and so if they can deliver a quality product like that I think that's GonNa. Really disrupt the market through said Amazon even. Even further ahead of their peers so this is interesting in on curious in. We're just GONNA. Watch more, but hopefully this does mean that they are investing more into low television than we. We've seen them dabble more and more recently, I mean they had the initial deal with NFL football to Thursday night games, and then now they've really stepped up with Merely, another the NFL deal the doing Saturday playoff game if those are going to be back at season, so like they've really stood at their foot in live television, alive programming, and they kind of feel about you know live events in hopefully they can make the transition and I think that if they get in the game and they really put their foot to it. It can really disrupt the market I think you also helped. Incidentally with sales of their fire devices, too, because you know if you have the live cable you need some sort of you. Don't need to kill box kind of some interface there nothing. That's a big another big selling point for their fire devices and stuff like that, so it's just something else to kind of think about as well, but overall is this potentially could be extremely nice inconvenient for prime users and the other part of it is. Is that they can implement IMDB TV which we'll talk about a little bit more, but I. Am D. bTV is kind of their Filo. Their Pluto TV version of what Amazon offers where it's free content ad supported, and it's only a matter of time before that gets somehow gets rolled into. No peacock is kind of a larger service that's going to have multiple different tiers, including a free tier I honestly think that it makes perfect sense for. To have something like this and to also implement live TV, and like you were saying. They could steamrolled the industry. They could actually drive the price down and that's part of the reason why I think so many other companies are having issues. We're GONNA, talk about some streaming cord cutting services on a little bit here with some price increases, but it's not uncommon for this to continuously happen I. Mean obviously when Cord Cutting services like Hulu versus did it wasn't anywhere near the price. It is now on. It's slowly creeping up towards the cost of what you would typically find with cable and the problem is. That's the whole reason why people love cable in the first place was a higher price, but Amazon has been known to. To enter in enter into an industry and completely changed the the the narrative at least half. How things run because they'll go in, and they'll they have no problem losing money for a little while. If you want a great example, but has nothing to do with what we talking about here, there was a website called diapers dot com. They actually used to be the top seller for diapers and Amazon, went, and did their own diaper division, and then ended up underpricing the diapers diapers dot com. They lost money and Amazon had absolutely no problem losing money continuously for as long as it took to basically end diapers dot com, rain and the. The name was on, bought. DIVERS DOT COM so. It's not to say that it couldn't happen again. But I think live TV could be a great option, and at least for a consumer could be a great option, because not that I want Amazon to be the massive monopoly of every industry there is, but I believe that if Amazon got into live, TV could actually drive the prices down for some of the other services, because they just would have to compete and figure out some way of doing it and Amazon's not afraid to just say no to networks are media, companies and things like that because we've seen that happen so all right? Right so jumping over the Hulu Hulu has landed to highly anticipated effects series as originals now maybe saint yourself of course who is got fx series because fx on Hulu? That was a thing back a couple of months ago, and yes, it is, but there was two series specifically the American horror stories, which is the spin off series that one as well as Y, the last man, which is a series that has been in the works for almost ten years I think those two series were actually planning to be in effect, but due to the programming block or whatever they're. They're actually going to be exclusively on Hulu now so while they. They are technically ethics. Originals not broadcast on ethics, which means the idea of affects on. Hulu is becoming even more. It's evolving even more because now. fx Izumi creating content exclusively for Hulu and won't even be airing it on its broadcast channel shows. The focus is of course on streaming, and then the other Hulu news is that Jamie Oliver's showed that he did during corn team is also going to be coming to lose well jumping over to access the spongebob films, the latest animated film to head over to paid video on demand P. B. O., D. and then streaming specifically, it was planned for release a believe in August it's now. Now going to be doing the same thing that school and trolls did where it is available for rental ahead of time, and then it'll actually be coming to the streaming service. That's Viacom CBS is still creating, but for now it will be paid view on demand all right apple TV, plus there's a bunch of stuff here. I up. Apple has acquired the CON artist feature film called Sharper which will star Julian more Thursday a murder mystery comedy series called the after Party. That's from Phil. Lord and Chris Miller. There is an Israeli Neo Noir series called losing alice that is also coming to apple. TV Mark Bombeck. Who is the show runner? Runner of defending. JACOB HAS INC an overall deal with apple. The Foundation for Maurice Sendak with the creator of where the wild things are. There found that foundation a struck an overall deal with apple where apple will be creating content based on Maurice Index. Work Apple has purchased, will latest film called emancipation for over hundred million? When I say over one hundred million, it was actually closer to one hundred, twenty, million, according to some industry insiders, so that is by far the most expensive film that has landed on streaming service. We know that Greyhound was seventy million. We talked about how the trial of the Chicago seven was fifty million that Netflix. Netflix but one hundred twenty million is an insane amount of money. And it came down to one media, trying to purchase it and apple and were media. I think had every intention of releasing theaters, not just bring it over to Hbo Max, but Apple bought it and I believe the details of this is that it's still going to release in theaters, but it's going to have a bigger release than let's say like the banker or some of the other films that that apple has been dealing with, but one hundred twenty million dollars i. mean obviously the title emancipation should tell you what it's about, and obviously it's a very timely story, but. One, hundred million I mean I was reading the article and I feel like personally. It is a great story. I think they've got a great actor. And I think it's it's moving, it's. It's compelling. It's it's it's based on true story, and so it's got the real with it, and it's very. It's hard to off things going are now in America united. States very personally i. feel that way but I think also. It's just going to be good. You Know Television a good movie experience in I don't want to disrespect the film for for saying that, but I feel like you can think of it objectively. The, audiences will like it, and there's a lot of interest in it, but when I read this, and then also kind of preparing a little bit with enough flicks story about how they bought the property, fifty million dollars I made a comment of leg. It just seems the new normal. His actually I felt that fifty million was kind of its seemingly low, just giving them out of apple coverage. We've done recently I. I have a concern that maybe apple is recent in the market for a lot of these films. Films Properties in that the just Greyhound use, if seventy million appreciated, there's some other movie recently. Those eighty million. The banker was had the time kind of expensive when it was purchased, so we've made comments of the past few episodes of how apple's behind in there in a big spending spree to catch up and I think that they've done well and I felt the content that they're buying is going to have is going to be good and it's going to be Steph. The people going to like to watch. Watch instead of going the whole moneyball type approach, and it just seems like okay. Let's just get big name actors, big stories, and let's just go for it so kind of old school Hollywood in and that's fine, but it seems like they're gonna be recently in the market for the future and I'm curious. What are your thoughts on that? It's like okay. What if we have these craters? You're in shop around the content and like you know we saw it. Apple does and you know they? They've done one hundred. Hundred million a couple of times. I think that I'm worth undo million or or this properties worth a hundred million I'm just I'm concerned that maybe apple is over pricing is overspending, and it's going to reset the market for these properties, and it's really at the end of the day. It's GONNA a back streaming services because it's going to really just push their budgets even more. Like what are your thoughts on that I? Agree I mean honestly it's going to come down to the fact that apple has. A huge amount of money they can spend the. They don't have a problem holding back on the amount of money that they can spend, but that can create a larger problem for the industry because you start having projects that are. That are being bought for larger amounts of money than they really should be. I'm not. This is no judgment against these projects have recently come up with Greyhound or emancipation, or even the trial Chicago shirl out of these projects. Really Great I haven't seen any of them. Obviously, so it's going to be very difficult to sit here and say. Was this worth as much money as they paid, but the I'm curious about the the capitalization of these properties in return of investment in. How do you? How do you? You quantify that and certain point I feel like that. The market's just GONNA. Be Like you know. Hey, we can't the asking price on these properties so high that we're going to go with a bunch of like sundance films and stuff that no one knows about in developed in house or something crazy or we're gonNA have a few streaming services just overspend on a whole lot of money accrue a whole lot of corporate debt than ever get their way out of it, I mean apple's unique case because. Because, they just have a whole lot of cash on hand, but not streaming services like that or immediate like eighteen, T has a whole of corporate debt in general. That's the that some consider unhealthy. You have Netflix's which has a healthy amount of debt. Some some insiders is a little bit worried, but for the most part enough. Exceedingly he's doing well in their expansion is good, I mean you've Disney plus who like they have money, but it doesn't seem like it's it's. It's the most prudent for them to. To get a whole bunch of business loans and going to cruel out of corporate debt, so it's going to be balancing that line between dead, versus I do in house or funding from the cheaper. I don't know, but I'm just concerned. As the industry is, apple's pushing. Four, two, four, two, four with hired hired deals in our having more inch, more participants in the streaming space for these high priced content I'm just concerned that there's going to be some artificial bubble. That's going to happen sometime soon in. Dallas affects our. Can we even numerate them right now or just? That's my warning hat on and I'm just a little bit concerned about a potential bubble happening in the space. Well, the real question should be if apple has absolutely no problem, spending as much money as they are on these individual films for projects could've used money collectively to go purchase studio. They could have bought MGM and could have had A. A huge group of content that they could've used right out the gate to bolster their their library. They could have had existing executives coming in help content specifically for the service. They could've even potentially. This wouldn't have been as cheap as MGM, but they could have maybe gone gone after you know Sony. Sony has created a ton of content or the only one. That's kind of just kind of like weaving. Tony exempts have left. Former execs left. Sony GonNa Apple. I mean. That's the next piece of news which is Chris Parnell. Who was the Sony Pictures? toots TV studios co-president. He actually exited Sony, and he's now the senior TV programming executive, and this isn't the first one that this happened with it just comes to question of why is it that they're focuses buying these individual projects, and not looking for a larger long-term goal of we need to be able to create content ourselves in house, which they clearly are doing with their TV shows. When it comes to these films, it seems like purchasing them is just the easier route and I understand that that is the way sometimes. Hollywood works when. When it comes to certain projects. Obviously, you have sundance. You have cans. You Have Tribeca Film Festival. You have these film festivals that the independent filmmakers they bring their projects to look for someone to purchase them, and it's almost always the larger studios that are going to purchase them and pay the money for them and apple just happens to have the money to pay for it, but it is. It does go along with what you said eventually. You're going to keep spending too much. You'RE GONNA eventually. Push everything so high that the bubble has the pop honestly over the next couple of months of we keep hearing stories of. Spending fifty hundred million dollars or more on these various projects I just don't know of. That's going to be the right way to go about doing what they're doing. Obviously, they have new content coming. They have new seasons of some of their shows. They have content. They just don't have a ton and a single movie. However is a lot of. It's a lot of money to spend on something where I mean how many people are actually signing up for Apple TV plus because of one single movie, and that's not the surging capital intensive exactly so but I wanna get initially, plus because specifically it goes along with kind of what happened with Hamilton and let's just talk about that. That I so Hamilton came out and as we talked about the last episode Disney plus got rid of their free trial option. We knew this was probably likely going to be the case because of Hamilton specifically because Hamilton a film. It's not as TV series that airs every single week. It's a film of musical that was put on Broadway and there's no real money for Disney. Plus to give away free trials and have everybody wants to see Hamilton. Come in, watch it for free during free trial so conveniently the free trial disappears. They have people, and then of course news comes out. That's the APP. Downloads the increased by seventy two percent over the course of the last week. Week when Hamilton in around the time that Hamilton released, which is huge, because when you look at that number of APP downloads well, that number does not immediately translate to a specific amount of customers directly, because the somebody could subscribe, and then download it on their phone downloaded somewhere else, but that that number is huge, because specifically that means that all the people who signed up for Disney plus around that time probably did for Hamilton, and they paid for at least one month of of service, because there is no free trial, and this just goes in line with apple like if you're looking at apple and apples trying to find that magical project that's going to be drawing A. A bunch of customers and then hopefully keep customers around or subscribers around I just don't know that any of these specific projects are the thing that's going to draw in a humongous group of subscribers I assure you that all of the projects that they've purchased. They have a following people. Watch it I'm interested in seeing Greyhound I just don't know if any of these are going to be enough to draw in subscribers like something like Hamilton did for Disney, plus well I think one Hamilton's and a very unique situation, because it originally debuted off Broadway, you two thousand fifteen than Broadway sixteen discuss film twice. This was sixteen and in Spin on the road up until covid pandemic. It's there's a big initial. Surge in terms of popularity in social awareness in terms of like marketing with that, so people already knew about Hamilton, and there are there are people that know who who've seen it, but it's just really hard to get tickets to Hamilton to too expensive or even if you can afford them just. You have to know the right people just do that. They're always being sold out. I mean Hamilton just. A great production in just you couldn't get tickets for it. And so I think that there was already a lot of wariness around with the population of okay okay. What is sort of Hamilton people? Maybe we've listened to the soundtrack you know, and so when you release Hamilton Disney people already knew about Hamilton Oh. Go check it out. I'll go watch IT NUGGET SUBSCRIPTION SO I! Mean I think that it's a very unusual Jewish because it's had over five years of essentials the. releasing trailers advertising impress comparatively maybe to Greyhound which has been pretty much a big press campaign the past two weeks I feel like it's just a haul more just traders for it on the platforms in Amman or ads for it, and so I feel like Hamilton's a very unique situation, because people will already know about it after say personally I enjoyed Hamilton I allied the story a lot after working e for few years audiovisuals Princeton. Industry, it's it's attic chat with few them really were impressed with the level of. The production quality of it was just really nice didn't feel like I was just watching some play in a in a boring theater in a gym. Put you to sleep. Just fell I was a part of the universe. If I falls part of the world, the did a good job with set design and lighting to make you feel like you're in a different places. If even on a stage made, you feel like they're space there, so I thought it was pretty cool and and I guess if you were to compare it i. mean I think the easiest way to compare it in the biggest compared to movie call. Lima's Rob that came out of fuseco with Jackman indraught Ller in halfway, but that movie e costs a lot produce because it real sets I. Mean is is a legitimate movie, plus you're seeing a top of it as well so there's a whole lot of Prussian cost and crude there whereas in this film, Hamilton. Cost itself his or Manitou lesson will movie and so on the Disney did play a lot of money for the rights of Hamilton. It didn't have to the cost in terms of initial capital. Wasn't that much so I can see content like Hamilton produced more and more at one for Broadway to this. You know in this area of of Kobe nineteen and it seems like it'd be hard to move past this for a long time. I think it's A. A good way to to spread Broadway new stories and stories that we've known for while out to the world in keeping these live shows because we're not all going to go back to New York sometime soon or to a city with a decent of Broadway, theatre off Broadway theatre to watch wicked or some their production and I feel like it's a great way for these streaming predators as well as to offer content that one pupil go back to. To Watch Hamilton just over and over again. People still go see Broadway theatre. Even if they've seen the show multiple times, we'll stick it back to go see again and so I feel like this is also like decent evergreen continents while aren't happy frameworks, and I enjoyed it, but yes I do agree that long-term Hamilton's just such a unique position in comparison to be the properties. The apples bought because or Netflix's just bought just because they had a five. Five. Year, lead up to it so I I mean I'm still it's only been a few days as record this podcast when Hamilton was released so probably next episode. There's probably be a lot more hard numbers on social media engagements, true subscriber numbers. You know more effects than just mobile APP downloads, so I'm curious for next week's episode as we get more numbers to to share them with everyone also have Disney quarterly results soon on should be touting the. Tenants well, so all right, so then other Disney, plus news beyond say is going to be premiering a visual album called black is king on the service, and then Disney plus is going to head to eight more European countries on September fifteenth, specifically Portugal Belgium Fillon Iceland Luxembourg Norway Sweden and Denmark they will all beginning the service on September fifteenth, jumping over to Qube Jack. Coppola has a dark remain. Remain series called Love Lindsey forever that is currently in development and at home fan, remake of princess bride is premiering on. qube could be is developing a murder mystery series with Blunt House television, and then finally there's a retrospective of qube as the initial free trial period ends. That was popped up over in vulture. It's It's a long article, but it is a great read and gives a. Combines a lot of the stuff we've already heard about how wittman and Katzenberg have had issues with each other, and they have clashed at various points, gives a little bit more in depth into that it also talks a little bit more about the fact that Katzenberg his work ethic, and how that affects the company as a whole. It's a really good read. It actually appeared in the New Yorker before appeared. Appeared online on vulture definitely give it a read. If you're interested in hearing more about the history of quitting, it's slowly dying so yeah all right HBO. Max Tons of stuff. Hbo Max's ordered Anthology Algae series called outliers I. One will focus on. Dr Anthony Fauci. There's a coming of age feature called. We were there, too. Which is heading to the service? There Hbo Max's Teen with Iheartmedia four more companion. Specifically rated or related to their original content that is on the service gone with the wind has returned to Hbo Max with the Contextual Intro the new dystopia thriller in Memorial is in development which will max assigned. Marlin Wayne's to an overall deal. With multiple projects already underway the DC universe original series Harley Quinn will be coming age Max issue. Max's acquired. David makes a man from own. The Cartoon Network Series Infinity Train has moved over to Hbo Max for Third Season and the first two seasons. Seasons are also available immediately on Hbo Max, and then finally warm media CEO has discussed. The ad supported version of Hbo Max now this article appeared on the information. Link is there is behind a paywall, but to give you a basic idea of what was there. It was really depth article talking about Jason. Killer, and his process of how he came in basically four weeks prior to Hbo Max Launching and how he's trying to change the focus from being so focused on advertisers cable companies to. Shifting the focus to the consumer, and how to better the experience for the consumer, because long term that's what's more important than the cable companies in the advertisers, so there was some talk about the ad supported version. He specifically was quoted to say that he was shown. An ad supported model. He then went back them and said No. It's too expensive and you have too many ads. You've got to figure out a different way of doing this, so we already knew that there was an ad supported version of. Of Hbo Maximum is in the works, but this just further confirms that it is in works right now, and they're gradually trying to figure out how to make it work so that it's a good price point that they can be competitive with the other streaming services. There was one other real quick comment that was in there, specifically dealt with the Harry Potter films. I think a lot of people were taking surprised by the fact that all eight Harry. Potter films appeared on the Service Day, one and that. That was not previously announced, or they did not even talk about it, and those were familiar with the licensing rights of Harry, Potter would would know that NBC universal had a multi year deal in place to license all the Harry Potter films specifically for their cable services like Saifi in USA, but that that deal was good till twenty twenty five, and it turns out for the months leading up to HBO Max's launch, one or media was trying to figure out a way to get the streaming rights to the. The Harry. Potter films specifically for Hbo Max, and it turned out that killer called the CEO of NBC Universal Jeff Shell, and basically worked out a deal the night before the launch of Hbo Max According to the Article I. Don't know obviously the terms of the deal or anything like that, but it's a great thing that somebody who's so new to the company was able to come in and actually work out a deal that allowed those films to beyond their potentially less than twenty four hours before the. The service actually launched which is great so definitely worth the read if you if you can check it out like I, said it is behind a paywall all right so then jumping over a peacock peacock has announced that they have teamed with Google. They will be on Google devices when they launched for their national expansion. In July, peacock has also balked up their library with a number of Viacom CBS properties through a licensing deal, specifically films and certain shows that previously appeared on CBS channels like charmed, which was. was originally back on the CW and the WB years ago, but was was produced by CVS and then Ray. Donovan which was recently on showtime along with shows like the Godfather, which is from paramount peacock is going to have some of that content immediately on their service for launch. Now the one thing I will say about that is that is odd considering just last episode. We were talking about how back the COO Viacom. CVS was saying that they were going to hold the rights to a lot of. Of their properties, or at least their major properties the way he said it, they were gonNA. Hold their rights back to. They can have it on their own service. Now no one there's no nothing to say that these rights are only going to be good for like maybe six months until NBC universal has a little bit more original content available for the service or just more content in general that is freed up because we know the offices coming at the end of twenty twenty parks and REC is. is going to be coming, so we know that there's more content coming, but it's more of a question of. Did they strike up this licensing deal for short amount of time so that they have more content while Viacom CVs is still working out whatever they're going to do with their streaming service that we know isn't coming into actual twenty twenty one. I thought that was very interesting. And then finally peacock is also very unlikely to make deals with. Roku Amazon prior to their national launch. Now this obviously. With what we've been talking about with HP, Max for the last couple weeks in the fact that that deal was not able to be secure by one media with Roku Amazon. They've had their own fair share of issues with those two services, but the biggest thing is Roku Amazon. They make up seventy percent of the streaming devices that people are using and it. It turns out. Peacock isn't going to be able to make those deals happen. Either my take on that. Is that Disney somehow was able to make it work for their service. And that was the last one that probably got through and I guarantee you that Viacom CBS. When eventually comes around? They're gonNA have their own issues with with Roku Amazon less some of. Of. These other companies resolved some of the issues. It does show that there's going to be some major problems with how the services are accepting. The outside larger services has competition for some of their own stuff that they're doing so definitely something to keep an eye on. Yeah, I mean I was reading that article and I was thinking. I was like man this. This is really good content discussing maxed up as well as we've discussed the feud between each relax and Roku Amazon so I felt that that was, it was pretty interesting just to see that. This is becoming more of a larger problem like it's not just you know Rukuni on our picking fights with individual companies seem that there's really an impasse between the. Think about the distributors as content producers on sometimes like it's, it's a little bit of both, but when think of the streaming spaces the distributors, and then also the content producers, it's that that divide seems to grow even more, but I feel like CBS Alexis in. US whatever their future names going to be, they might have a better time. Maybe these other companies just because the CBS Alexis. Out there, in already on these properties, and it has you know the both ad supported and the ad free models in those apps already, so it's it's. They've the base onto work of obviously, it's GonNa. Be In terms of like Game Theory I. Guess It makes sense that both sides WanNa read negotiate. The deal is when the time comes, but at least they have a framework of what works what doesn't work in a in a in. In a model for the future is in Hbo Max doesn't have a a roadmap for the future of our. You know work with selling subscriptions and ads and stuff like that so overall. It was very formative. Add in I. Highly recommend that people check out the show notes and read because it was very informative. Yes, all right so then jumping over to some niche streaming services ESPN plus they have announced that they're going to be increasing their. Their service to five ninety nine, starting in August, DC universe subscribers have been offered an Hbo Max add on essentially for a very discount rate of late additional five dollars DC universe has also announced not they haven't announced, but it has been announced that this humor's original DC star girl is going to be leaving the service for their second season now the current season first season is airing right now. It's premiering on DC universe on Mondays and. And they believe it's appearing on CW on Tuesdays, but it's basically like a day away, and then its appearance W now. That wasn't a obviously originally. The case originally was meant to be a universe exclusive series as the show was created word out there from insiders was that the series was costing a little bit more than they anticipated, say one and chopped into the CW. CDW was like yeah. We can usually use this as one of our. Our summer programming shows because they were looking for content for the summer, and that's what ended up happening. However now it appears that CW has picked up for a second season, but DC Universe is not involved, which means if you're watching it on DC universe for the first season. You'll need to swap over to CW watch it and conveniently also has been announced that it will then be on cw seed or the CW streaming service that they. They offer with ads, just like usual with the other CD properties, and then it will also end up on HBO maxed on the line, but it shows again the DC Universe is in a situation where they're losing content their original content that they had when they first launched the titans and young justice later on it was announced that the the Harley Quinn series. We talked about how that's going to be moving over to HBO Max. Not, as As if it's permanently moving just over HBO Max, but it will also be available on Hbo Max then you've got the star girl series, which will no longer be on DC universe with new episodes. There's just not a lot of original content left at this rate. Doom patrol also moved over, and we'll still have episodes on devers, but right now all you've really got his titans and young justice outsiders, which conveniently when you look at those two. Two series. They're also the two series that I believe had licensing rights with Netflix's. When it came to international situations, so it'll be interesting to see what ends up happening with those series because of DC universe morphs into something more fan oriented where they keep the community aspect in the comic books. The Digital Comic Book Library. They have and potentially lower the price, or keep the price the same or are they just have some content that. That media related, but they stay away from the original content the other part was that recently just this past week. DC daily, which was a series of show that was on this universe every single day almost every single day since they launched they, they wrapped up and they're that show was essentially canceled as well so it shows that DC universe is focusing less on the original content. There's going to be less and less content in general coming. Coming to the service, and then when that happens, it's only a matter of time before either gets completely absorbed turns into what I believe, my my my belief is that what's going to happen is that it's going to just become a fan community, and then a digital library for the comics, and that's what the focus is going to be and the original streaming stuff is just nonexistent. I'm actually in favor of this There are some things. Things mine in the comic comic space that really want DC universe to be its own show I mean to be its own service and feel like there's no way the DC universe can create enough content on its own to justify. There's no simple just businesswise does make sense for these universities still continue when you have HBO. Max You have studios and personnel over at a sister department that can create more content at a faster pace than. Than, DC universe could has just, that's just the way it is, and since the DC universe niche, there's from eighteen perspective. It makes sense that why are we going to have dedicated wine just for DC universe contest? It just doesn't make sense so i. do appreciate them moving and simplifying essentially the whole arbitrary, and when we first broadcast amid a few complaints Bell Warner media any decision to still keep up with all these different subdivisions but I. I think they recognize that there is some confusion in their market are in their in their products. I guess in the trying to simplify that a little bit, but given the licensing structures with netflixing other partners understand when they couldn't do it immediately, but there's a slow focus of sales just moving, Max one. You'RE GONNA. Have all the streaming content there under one head under one roof, and is just makes a lot of sense, but then to. To you can transition DC universe to maybe something a little bit more, and you can spin it off to be an even more profitable unit potentially than what it is right now. I think that they should focus on really a subscription aspect comics because it is, it is a great service when we talk about comics and somebody who just into enjoys comics. I felt like it. It is very good alternative to it is out there five dollars. Dollars a month. You can pick up any comment. That's over your old. That's great. That's a great offer, so I'm over all happy with this move. There are some that I know they're not happy, but you just can't understand that business wise, it is introducing verse. Wouldn't you have HBO Max and as its Nicotine? You grow to keep around a streaming service to pump out content to keep subscribers when there's only a such a small subscriber count. Count in unfortunately, Superhero shows de require a good amount of siege is stuff, so it's it's potentially could drain a lot of money It's one of those properties that type of property that can drain in can cause big budgets and stuff without so overall. I'm happy with this it's it's nice to see the HBO Max has a plan for DC universe and integrating the content to finally the the service we talked about earlier on. TV Has Landed Madman in complex licensing deal well, not going to go into the details of the licensing deal itself I will say. It's surprising that madman has landed at a service like IMDB. TV, specifically because I'm DVD's ad supported and that's show. I mean it's a very popular show that I would imagine would typically end up at a net flicks or even prime video for that matter, but instead Amazon. Paid for the right specifically to have it on their their free version. I think it it goes along with what I was seeing earlier about how eventually there? There has to be a plan for Amazon to incorporate that I'm. into prime video in some way, even with the ad supported version just so that they can have you know they can bring in more people and obviously bring in more revenue. There's got to be a point in time where I'm. DVD becomes part of prime video, and you can actually watch the content within prime video, because even if it's not content that's free if it's labeled as if it's not free, and you have to watch ads, and it's just part of what I'm. D- BTV offer as private offers as part of. I think it makes sense I think dead. It goes along with what I said earlier about. How Peacock has multiple tiers, and I think that prime video could have multiple tiers as well they offer free version, which I think should be reclassified as not necessarily called BTV, because that's just too many letters in my opinion, but I think that it would make sense for them to have like a free tour free tier to get in, and then also offer potentially some of that other Amazon content at an ad supported level because I think there are people who would then it could potentially get more people to sign. Sign up for prime video. The thing is we also know that the focus with an Amazon is not necessarily to create some sort of massive humongous streaming services like Netflix, their content with creating a good amount of content licensing some content, but the reality is that. Maybe there's a lot more things in the works along with this live TV option that we keep hearing about. Maybe there's more things at play with an Amazon than a lot of people realize it's interesting to see how I'm DVD TV. That's just really partic- multiple times on off air man Let's switch award going on but I. think that this. This is good I. Think Right now it's it's I'm. Debbie TV seems like one of the only few alternatives out there. That's actually getting decently big name content. There's some other Avon stuff that's out. There doesn't have as near as big as titles as I'm. Debbie TV and getting madman is actually kind of huge, and it used to be on Netflix and I. Don't know what happened to it after a few years ago, watching it, but it used to be there and getting some like madman is pretty huge, so Kudos time to be TV and I'm curious to see what Amazon's GonNa do with this. This property and future right then finally so other shooting providers specifically the corner cutting services Youtube TV has announced that they're increasing their monthly rate thirty percent from fifty dollars to sixty five dollars Fubo TV has also announced that they are raising their rates and the Warner media networks are going to be leaving. While the Disney our networks will actually join the service, so you won't be able to watch TNT TV s cartoon network. CNN be will however be able to watch ESPN the Disney Channel Disney junior things like so I don't know that I would sit there and say immediately that gaining the Disney is better than. Than the war, media or vice versa, but I will say that they're raising their rates regardless of what's going on and then sling TV and this isn't in the show notes. This is just kind of like. A note came across while all of these services. Elson that WHO raise their prices earlier this year. We know that they've been losing subscribers very rapid rate and those who don't know Sung. TV's actually owned by dish network, and that was dishes, way of like getting subscribers and customers in general outside of the actual satellite was sling TV and these live options live TV options. They're only good for two things at. At this point, they're only good for sports and news. That's the whole point of them, but specifically when you. When it comes to sports, there isn't any real sports right now. We've got word that some of the the League's going to start picking that up or figuring out some way of doing something in continuing or cutting their season half and things like that, but sports is a whole nor near as what they were in the past, so it does beg the question of. Is this live option even real thing and the only other thing that's out. There is the news while cable. News, obviously Garner's readings and things. Things like that I'm not sure that a lot of people are wanting to pay you know sixty five dollars a month for the option of watching cable news with no sports. Whatsoever, it's just this is a bad time for these price hikes just because of one of the two reasons that you would typically use these services which live sports. It's unfortunate, but anyway sling TV. They have been losing subscribers, and they took the the took this this announcement of these different services raising the rates as marketing opportunity and decide tell everybody. Hey, if you come to sling TV. We are guaranteeing that we won't raise our rates for. For the next year, which is great for anybody? WHO's a sling TV customer, but we already know that there's not that many of them left. Because they're leaving, enlarge drove so that's one thing to consider if you are a live live, TV subscriber. Your rates are GonNa. Keep going up. There's very few that their rates aren't going up the big ones who youtube Fubo TV. All of these are going up and it's just a matter of business in the question is more and more cable companies, more and more people leave the cable companies and court, cut and switch over to these Internet's live TV options like Youtube TV. TV who the question really is going to be. How long will it be before these prices start to inch closer and closer and closer to those cable prices that everybody wanted to get away from the first place. It's just something to keep in mind. If the your cord cutter I personally when I moved one of the things that I did was I did not sign up for cable TV. I do have obviously a number of streaming services. Just keep it in mind that if you're cord-cutting, your cord cutting cost savings is going down very rapidly. I agree I think it's a shame that these these services you're raising rates just so fast I think part of it is just the world that we live in right now that they're. They're probably imaging subscribers due to no one really being interested. There's no sports going on. There's no there's nothing on live television. That's that convincing to stick around for an so that's. That's a little bit surprising and I think it's sad and it's. It's why the raising rates, so it's understandable, but also just teams that people are the domain for for for like television is just it's becoming even more niche regardless of of the outside economics at the world and stuff like that, but it's just it's becoming more nation. It's killed providers, also realizing. Realizing that actually you can make home. There's still a significant amount of money with television and streaming that and I think that they've upped their prices as well so I feel like some of these companies are in a between a rock and hard place, because they're small small enough interscope subscriber numbers to have the weight to push around and back up back on some. Some deals, but same time they don't have enough to cover the costs of of the industry, so maybe somebody like Amazon, getting in the game, and with the weight and caught of Amazon and just it being on, it could be digitally more efficient in might be able to move game before it might become even more cost effective in cost friendly for consumers so. That there's a lot there, but yes. Increasing monthly rate by thirty percent is his ridiculous. That's going to wrap up this episode of the Streaming Wars I. Do want to encourage everyone to check out the notes. There is a massive amount of over fifty different trailers that have actually released over the past two weeks. Definitely, check out the show notes you can find. The show notes on the Stream. Wars DOT IO as obviously as well as the show notes themselves. If you are looking for links directly to them, we do able those links over on the website. Certainly check that out if you're so inclined. Inclined check out our twitter and our instagram as well as we haven't scored post all the articles that we discuss here on the podcast on our twitter, and on our discord, an instagram where you specifically use for all of the announcements related to new episodes of the podcast leasing outside of that I. Do WanNa encourage you if you could please take the time to leave a review wherever you are listening to this podcast, always greatly appreciated five-star reviews great, but any any constructive criticism is always welcome as well. 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