Facebook camera tracking you in your kitchen?
Everyone really trust Facebook implicitly with all the daughter and Facebook never done anything to make you question they commitment to your privacy. Well, any feel bad installing Facebook camera that will lead early follow you around the room smack bang in the middle of your kitchen? Yes. This week download this shar Facebook. Paul also talking about the death of Google plus Yuba wanna, give equity to their driver's doesn't really count all that much and just how regrettable you'll retweets all of that much more coming up. This is your God to the week in technology, the media and culture. My name is Fennell than the welcome to download this shot. Yes. Indeed it is download this and it is a very welcome to at panelists this week. He is a software developer with access informatics. He said site with confidence, and Thus I have paid a marks. Welcome back to download this show. Good to be back. Annalong side paid him. 'cause we have another person who's been on the show for many years and been through many jobs has a new one. She is the editor of junkie Johnson. Welcome back. Thank you for having me back. You don't want me to mention like all the TV show is coming out. I mean, yeah, I do that startup show as well, which has been green lit for another season. Amazing. Teaming up with Benjamin Laura, and that one again, which is fantastic. I should say that if you listen to them of his show and you're not watching that startup show which you can see on YouTube on the Gizmodo website, you absolutely should. Because if you're interested in what guys on technology Australia, it's actually the best. Why to say what's going on with new startups in the country. It's called that startup show. You can find it right now on YouTube, and that eases much cross Primero as I have splaine for. So let's get into it. Kano Ray tweet, truly a an endorsement because right now pay the strain, fair work commission have gotten involved, which seems like of very big jump. Why are these drying fair work commission trying to work out whether a Ray tweet can possibly ACL endorsement? What's the impact was the senior deputy president. Jonathan hamburger re tweeted a tweet from Michaela cash. That was critical of the CF MEU. And so the CFM EU is asking that he stand aside from making rulings about things like entering the worksites and things like that on the basis. That the re tweet meant that he agreed with mccully cash and he's positions supposed to be independent dependent. That's right. So the question is it didn't make any comment. He simply retweeted it. So this is a broader question happens all the time. People will re tweet a Trump tweet, for example. And I think in that case is often because they are completely outraged by the tweet and all of their followers will know what they think about it. But in this case, it's not certain. So yeah, this is an interesting legal question I so Jonathan hamburger is he is we've the strain fair work commission. He's senior deputy president and the if you're not sort of intricately aware of how industrial relations where can strike the Fairwood commissioned themselves are involved in Judah catting a whole bunch of issues relating in relation to work hours and what's what he's in work in the most obvious type. Never. So how do you stand on this? Let's assume you're in charge, right? Shoot array, tweet, equal, and Indocement. I have never considered a racially. Anything, but an endorsement, I retweeted a lot of Donald Trump and on just about to guard. Just to that. Look at this crazy person that's in charge of the world. Do I need to delete that now, do you think I'm feel like that's why the quote rate wait exists now so that you can go look at this ridiculousness. I absolutely do not agree with this to be able to clarify because no matter how many times people put in their bio retweets to equal endorsements. No one's going to go check your bio. And if I see that come up in my fade Ray tweeted by someone, I'm going to shoot them a grants with. It's so interesting because so many people put things like retweets dynamical endorsements, and my thoughts and my own. But if your, like, let's say, as a hypothetical, if you are broadcast with the and you say something that gets media attention, you get a write up the daily Telia. One of those, they don't care if you've put in your by that. Like these, though it's in my ironed, they'll be like busy both and said something offensive on the blah, blah, blah, blah. So are we at a point now. Where we should just like save the characters and remove that from bias because nobody cares and it doesn't matter anymore. Yes should absolutely get rid of it because whatever you go tweeting, if you're tweeting things publicly, absolutely. It's going to be attributed to you as a public person, saying things in a public space. You can't just draw reline and say on, oh, there's a disconnection between work and private may while I'm speaking publicly to the entire world. That idea is kind of ridiculous. And imagine if you were on going all the ABC terrible. It's terrible place debate. I mean, which is obviously. Not not my -pinion. I, if the basic isn't going to look at that and go, what are you doing like you, what I do you want to work for us? Why are you saying these things out loud? It's what's up groups. Interesting. Interesting argument spas CF you was that it takes two clicks to re tweet. Not one click. It's not like something that he did accidentally, but there is because you've got what you click re tweet and then you go the options. Do you want to quote this, or do you. Thing not actually saying what you mean in the the comment next to the right tweet, but there is some precedent in two thousand seventeen. The US office of special counsel warn the then ambassador to the UN Nikki Haley that she'd retweeted something about Trump and they actually decided legally that that meant that she was revealing her boss if you like. So that was actually a legal ruling. But I think in general, this this thing about retweets do not equality endorsement that actually dates back to Patrick Lafforge from the New York Times, said that some years ago. So it's been around for a long time. But yeah, it's an easy out on takes though, isn't it? You've got to say it's a mistake should have done any s- pulled down his re tweet. Now the original tweet is still there. So he's obviously realized that it was a mistake in anyone who's in a role where they making judgments, has to be extremely careful about as you said, right about revealing motivations. Oh, bosses on the public internet. I don't think that it's something that people. Should be fired over or anything like that. But I think it's something that's worth reminding people of how they are perceived when they do re tweet, things that might not necessarily in line with their own ethics, morals. All the companies that they work. You've never more sounded like an editor with ways. Editor junkie alongside software developer for Max's informatics, pay Tamaki mums. Marc Fennell and Facebook drink is or Daesh Asli apparently launching a new video gadget, something you harm the cooling portal. What the hell is it right? It's a gadget. Facebook's decided to make a gadget, which is the most horrifying thing I've ever heard of. So once I get it, we physical, it's a physical gadget. It's got a screen. It's got a camera. It's got four microphones and it's got some decent quality speakers in it. If you've got a Amazon echo or Google home or something in your home, it's conned of along those lines. It has Alexa integration, so you can ask questions it can play your Spotify music, all of those sorts of things, but it's going to screen. It's got a screen this two models with two screen sizes. This is my infra graphic my, my infamous voice almost good. Yes. So it's not actually viable in Australia get is starting now. It'll be available in the US in November. That's I think, yeah, the the fifteen inch size is three hundred and fifty dollars. Fifty dollars ten inch, one hundred ninety nine dollars. This is US pricing, but what it can do over other gadgets that are in your home is connected via your Facebook to messenger, and you're using the video calling function within messenger for the time ever right? But without having to hold your phone in front of your face. So you've got this screen that sitting in your harm and the cameras attracting new zooming in on year panning across the room. It's like that zoom in hand soon. Episodes. Absolutely. So it's meant to video coaling Asia, which I don't think is a good enough reason to have a Facebook camera and said of microphones sitting in my heart, I don't think Facebook have the clout at the moment, the security clout to be able to offer this product. It's an interesting time for them to be launching a device like this, but I guess what it pays back to. Right. So we're at the stage now paid away, and we've talked about it a lot on the way houses are becoming smarter and we've got Nazis, big companies competing for that space in your house with the Alexa from Amazon or Google home and Avon Paul. Yeah, that thing is. Really good music. Yeah. Wouldn't mind kind of stepping back into sort of comparing what what is, what are the various different options available to you? And why would you want Sipe portal over a Google Alexa? What? What are the different values you get out of those options? I think Google has got incredible penetration. I forget what it was. Pure research said some twenty percent of homes or something in the us. Now massive just a couple of weeks in the US and it's everywhere. And I think we talked about last time on the show that on radio stations. I sell tell your smarts Baker to Bob. I yes, driving around the US and they're like, tell you so big is a thing. Now what this is this is supposed to be messenger is supposed to be video conferencing and they think things like that. The smart camera that follows you Renzo in their promotional video, they show someone teaching someone how to cook something in the kitchen. So they can't use the hands the walking around the kitchen, and it's tracking them. And apparently it does something with the audio, which I guess is focused audio on the person who's who's talking that sort of thing. What are the, of course. Everyone has the same problem is, do I trust Facebook to have a camera in my house at all times and given the recent data breaches, you would have to say, no. Interestingly ships with a physical camera block, like a piece of plastic clip over the camera, which I think speaks to the fact that people are worried about it. I mean, if that anxious that you're gonna use the physical block out, then you really gonna put it into. Yeah, also like what about Odia I've said that now it only starts listening. Adani starts uploading the speech after you say hi portal Hypo and almost Halayqa that the video tracking smart cameras, smart speaker us not microphone. Stuff is done on device and not in the cloud. They, she said, no, we don't track any dot up at about a week after the launch. Then actually had to say, oh, actually, no, we do use. We did track information about your calls so that we can target better target advertising, edgy. So the have actually back down on that. Why device book care about missing? It's. A y. two k. you engaged on the platform at all times paperwork going to the news feeds as much as they were previously, but people will go to messenger all the time to message their friends. It's another place that they can make revenue quite easily messaging. They are putting in messaging. They're also using the information from your messenger chats to tag more adds to you as well. So I know so many people that have deleted the Facebook app from there. The messenger. That somehow it's, it's not. And this is a way that they negate that as well. Okay. People might not be interacting on Facebook like they were a year ago two years ago. It might be a bit old fashioned to the kids, but they'll also use messenger to keep in touch with their friends because with Dada, it's free with with this hardware though they are trying to get into another space, which is the music. I've got the Facebook video. I forget what? Yeah. What it's called and they're, they, they watch into it. It has that. So I think at the moment, it's only got a cooking show or a few things on Facebook watches. Interesting. Because as most people will notice into the Chinese, their outgrew them at the beginning of the year to what's the word I'm looking for completely screw over people that make video on, and it is has come as concurrent them launching Facebook watch, which is a dedicated platform where they can insert ads and what a surprise that I went, screw people over the work and that rumors that they are going to also produce a set top box which. Has video conferencing, and that of course, will be sitting next to the TV and that will be more of a video platform. I mean, I think Facebook is trying to be which for some uses of the internet. Facebook is the engineer in places. People say, I'll look that up on the internet and they go to Facebook and search for something. And that's how I get the news and look things up. I think the floor though is that they've had to put Alexa into this product because they don't have a speech import, and you know it all kind of bought the there are enough had to put Amazon's one in which I mean, this is the thing like PayPal, really use it quite a lottery house on his a competitor. I mean, there's advertising is moving away from Google and Facebook into Amazon because people they sell ads next to the shopping with Alexa with Alexa. Vega Maine's that they can sell it on the Amazon stow. That's interesting, and it will likely bay promoted products by on as well, because it was a thing about certain apple products not being able to be bought on the Amazon store being huge scandal. Yeah, Facebook doesn't have any way to sell you things except on Facebook. Who's going to buy something off Facebook off their news face or the policy. They're gonna go through MS on the partnership, make sense. You build a bought on Instagram. Forgot about that. Yeah, which is where I buy everything. Every anything like loads or finishing, I'm Sisa -ceptable and now set it out that. One of the things that I think is important tonight is that because of how much content is moving for better for worse onto the Facebook watch platform and Facebook watches replicating so many of the behaviors that we commonly associated with the having longer shows on. They're having a product in your kitchen that can replicate some of that lane back viewing experience in a kitchen thought we the additional functionality oven. Alexa, I actually do think there's a market for that. There is a market for this. There's a market for in, you know, in the groups of people that don't think the concern about security is worth thinking about the do just trust trust Facebook goal or don't really care if daughter is out there at all. Even off to all of this, I also a market in that, you know, what do we get the grandkids, we'll get them a device so that they can talk to video the show families. Yeah, grandma. Talking to the kids and things like that. Actually, interestingly, there is a kind of a reference to sixteen or whatever it is. Did you watch the ad in the ad? I've got one of the scenes is a woman reclined on a Aloun JR, and on the other side of the video called as guy sketching her just stay Titanic to many. The hot of the ocean and total time. Sex, messenger plays PayPal do it. But I think one place where might be useful actually where there might be a market for it as well as people streaming. If if they if people smuggling no, no streaming. Streaming. So you know, you've got all these cooking shows and things on twitch. Facebook's trying to push their live video how? Yes. Can you know, have a alive cooking show via the portal then might be a market in this for that without an expensive in a setup. I also bowling every time I see video or video. I'm just like, quit, why you all useless and unhelpful. I think this products did already. The big goal prediction is that next year there won't be a new model? Yeah. I think that the the fact that Google is out there in so many homes, what's Markov's laws is the strength of a telecommunication system is proportional to the square of the number of uses. Google is already there. Alexis hugely popular Facebook and the apple there at the high. And this one is too expensive people. I've got little Google devices in every room of the house and it's already hooked up. I just don't think this one can get a grip, so we've got Facebook filing in the kitchen. But on the other hand, we have Google filing this week as a social network. Of course, the news came out this week that Google plus has officially being killed him. Some of you will member Google plus was Google's attempt to building their own. I'm not gonna say Facebook Killa, but I think that was down somebody's intention and it died. Didi ever have chance ride Johnson? No one, no. I don't think it did. I think it was fine for companies potential in Christ's SEO traffic to their posts to promote what they're doing, all of that sort of thing. But for everyday uses, it was fought to similar to Facebook at the time in functionality, but just a little bit boring as well. Elected member headwind this launch had the circles. Yeah, since I had my circle of friends, I family circle of computer nerds, what of and that did kind of make sense. But it was very simple, very, that was like those on good idea. Fa may though is neural differentiation between putting people on a restricted friends list or an acquaintance as list. Let you can do that on Facebook, but it was always very complicated and difficult and you've dragged into Dom. It's. But I just don't think that there was no real reason to go back. I think there was something to do with timing as well, because by the time that had launched, you'd already had a few years if you photos and I really do think fido's is a big part of this, I think is another reason why a lot of people dying, delayed Facebook accounts, even though you could download if you've had us if you want to be protractive prices. I think there was a point at which you know Facebook with launch and you had a couple of hours and and then there was Instagram and the audio like there was no real reason. It was so similar to what you already had on offer. But I do. I always liked the idea circle in the previous shies what we've sort of, let's be honest, fun of Google. Plus people of always come back with specific groups. Like the dog refers. We huge fans of it because they're the, they're the ones that are gonna miss it because I do a lot of business through Google. Flicker lost. Yeah. So. Part of it. Hangouts was big, Padre leave on us products and they have products. Some people did really well in dog. How sake the apple evangelist had seven million followers and he was, you know, he was really cane on it because it was much better filtering him. I was found that forced itself on me. I kept using it when I didn't mean to. I've got a blog, a blog, and every time I posted pops up this shared ago and they do it in such a way that it's must be docked patent where I'm not sure has actually gone up or have to click okay in this folks, it's like a trick and the has been a bit of an article was written by an ex Google who Morgan Knutson, who talks about the fact that the project he says, the project was very badly, Ron. It was very authoritarian, and also what they did was they incentivize staff within Google to integrate Google plus into all of the different parts of Google bike, surely having financial incentives. So that was kind of like you. You've really got to put this in. And I think at the time it sounds like they would terrified of the growth of. Facebook. Facebook was wrapping up so fast and it was stealing. Let's add revenue what there's a really worthwhile question that that needs to be honest because we invest obviously lots of invest into Google plus, but somebody did guy Kawasaki right when even vested all your a big chunk of time and energy into building up an audience and content. What are the sorts of considerations that should be taking to account for that company when they shut it down? Like what option should they might be making available to us deed love it, the side that let's think about it if I spoke died, Tamar, that's more than a decade of my life. Yeah, that that is documented there and it would actually calls me physical pine. Yeah, in the same way, vice just as physical giggles actually in a really good position to be able to offer PayPal, something substantial. He in the way of an off hive, but doing what they do best organizing it well, so that you can actually go back. See everything that you've put back up. I think that they should be able to offer you a download archive. Actually, apple just launch. They download service quick. Look at it this morning, and it's a huge list of everything that apple has on you, including all of your purchases. The movies you watch they, I tunes music, you listen to, it's huge and you can download it. So I just, I actually wound you is this will be very big. If you include. Down low. I asked to download just one bit of which was my. I think he directions with the app store was the only thing text. Well, send me an Email saying, this might take up to seven days down. It said, how do you want the chunks to be like one gigabyte so. Interesting. Very smart. Yeah, yeah. Well, look, I think it's it's possibly part of the JD, but it's also I think it does give people the option to get off one platform. I guess the other side of that is that if you wanted to pick up, say you were going to be a Facebook killer, you would have to make a tool that lets you import the data into that new platform. It's with putting out that Google had a few attempts at building social networks. There was the audit which is sort of where it sort of started back in two thousand four, Google, even two thousand nine, which is, I guess more of a collaborative sort of price, but it had social components to it and Google buzz which was killed in, I think, two thousand eleven if memory serves east this something. Intrinsic with Google that prevents it from being able to build this kind of network all? Is it something wider. I don't think it's something you can tag on. I like remember, apple launched ping, which was a social network in audience axing with bands. Remember. Remember, no one used it as you can't just tack on social and I think you've gotta look, why do people go to Google? They go to Google to search and organize information. The dunk go to Google to socialist. Facebook has got that spice. I mean, we saying Maasais friendster will these on the ones disappear again, it's this Metcalfe's law. Once you're big in social once you've got a lot of us, it's an exponential job to overcome that advantage just quickly. Before I let you guys guy, there's an interesting story at with Yuba Uber have actually sent a letter to the the say in the US requesting. I challenge to a certain set of rules that would allow it to give equity stocks not exactly what it is notionally equity to drivers, which I thought rising interesting idea because we talk a lot about how the gig economy is, is very pace. Meal doesn't service people who want like term careers very well would giving drivers equity and be a way of. Creating some most ability in that income, would it would it work right? No. The director at all. I think that this is a very good move on behalf of rebel. Yeah, this is something at the moment, the private companies able to do for their employees, but it's not something that extends to contract and this is what he wants to do. This isn't without precedent. There was a rideshare company previously that Dido alpha. It's as a better deal bicycling is how they how they put Juneau yeah, Juno they were quad one hundred million and leave. The drive is got three cents three cents. I got three cents push. Yeah, about a hundred bucks. They ended up field. They went full shares some sort of limited one without full disclosure of their financial documents which they don't have to do at the moment. 'cause they're a private company, the know going public until next year. It was about three million drivers globally. Give give Otake here. Ten million among three drivers works out to about three bucks. So it looks good, and it makes the drivers probably have a bit of woman fuzzies. Mike Suba have a bit of woman fuzzies again, though blows lawn of Ave, employees, Zach, I mean, going to want annual leave and superannuation shouldn't. I guess I believe and superannuation. Just make them employee's rather than give them these. They just throwing them traits really? You tell poppy at home. I'm fascinated by it. I think Scholley whereas is now where we can recognize that there is a space in between what we traditionally understood to be a full time employee, and I can play contractor and Uber employees as the best emblem of that. And we need to stop thinking about different ways of creating and legislating Estrada for those people. So they are living in this sort of completely pace meal existence. Interestingly Yuba rejects the two gig economy submission, they call it on. But if you noticed how often if you get an Uber, they've also got other ridesharing apps running in the in the cost. So the drivers aren't that loyal Velgo from one to another quite as the and this is a way of making them loyal. It's the same way that equity is used for employees to get them to stay on after ten years advice, and so you wanna stick around if they wanted to keep them loyal. Maybe they should just pay them properly yet. But I disagree with that also rises. Interesting question of. If y'all giving equity to somebody the then today, then also have to sign something that says, you want also be a lift Dr. Yuan also being like your pot. I know you motivated to, you know, help that company do as well as possible. Apparently they do monitor the penalty that draw the side of the app monitors how much you drive, which is not being billed through. All through big Dada that your loyal drive or not. So you'd have to have multiple phones turn one of your fines off believe. So driver has. Message from them saying, you know, fifty percent of the time. You're not what did they do that information though? Like if they're not paying them for that time that they not driving over, who's what business it is to know that. Exactly. Well, maybe they pick and choose which drive it gets the job. I mean, nine win the doing the, you know, the booking linking you up. I know where you're going. They know it's a good fare on auto. Maybe they have an internally, I'll bet they do. They have ratings on what the customers think, but I'll bet they have writings on how profitable the strawberries to the company, all sorts of things. I'm just guessing, but. Mirror episode. I'm sorry. E e this is speculative site to the PR executive. Absolutely. Gonna Email me when not saying what you doing, but please come on the show and talk about what you actually doing open invitation or that is all we have time for in the show this week. Can I massive thank you to software, develop, paid them, Maximus legs, infinite I know, and also a huge. Thank you to ride Johnson, who is the editor of junkie amongst other things. Thanks for coming back on the Shire. Thanks for. If you enjoy the MAC. Sure. You leave a review on whichever podcasting app you found us on. I will catch you next week. My name is Mike Fennell. Thanks listening to another episode of download this shy.