Ep. 433 - U.S. Navy SEALs arrested in Haiti
He doesn't just not using. You're listening to self lady special operations military on straight talk with the guys in the community. Safra radio on time on target. I would say I mean, quite a lot going on and special operations related news right now. And I feel like most of this audience knows exactly what I'm talking. Never dull moment. Yes. You've been following the news rap Fowler, Instagram, Twitter and involve some familiar name. So you wrote an article that went up yesterday as reporting this on the news rep dot com. I guess just for those not in the know, let's give the whole back story of what's going on right now. Yes. So this story started to break with Haitian newspapers and local Haitian journalists. And then it got picked up by the Miami Herald. Sensibly because they're so close to the Caribbean. And they probably have contacts down in Haiti. So they're kind of all over that story. And I think they did a pretty good job with it. But the the story that emerged was that a group of American and Serbian private security contractors were rested down in Port-au-Prince Haiti. This was just over the weekend. And when the police came and questioned them, I think they became initially suspicious because it was a pickup truck and SUV about a block away from the Haitian central Bank and it had the license plates removed. So that's an indicator all what's going on here. And then the police went, and they started asking them, then these oil white foreign guys, and they said they were working for the government, but they couldn't identify themselves, and it turned out they had all kinds of weapons and everything inside the vehicles. Pictures taken by the police show, all these m four rifles, and they they took these guys into custody because they can identify themselves. I mean, you can't fault the police for that. I mean, it seems reasonable that. There's a bunch of ours with vehicles of the license plates missing in vehicles filled with guns. You know, the police are going to take an interest in that. And to be honest. They stand out as white contract. Dominantly black for sure for sure. So it starts to hit the press the names start to start to come out some of the political people. The prime minister's office starts talking about how these are white terrorists and mercenaries and things like this. Some of the names that sir coming out. The one that jumps out to me or jumped out to me when I was looking like a blog. I think actually down in Haiti was Christopher Osmond. Okay. Chris Osmin was a navy seal. And then the Miami Herald picked up on another one of the names Chris McKinley. Who was formerly Chris Hebron of also former navy seal McKinley was seal team, eight and Osmond was seal team three, and you guys may remember changed his name after a you know, what you guys can do the research, but pretty much concocted story about getting shot by these park. It was a couple years ago. Chris Hebron at that time now McKinley he claimed that these three African Americans came by in a vehicle and started yelling racial slurs at him. And that it was because he bad mouthed Obama on CNN and then shot him in the abdomen, and then sped off in their car. And according to mckinlay's account, he like tried to plug the bullet wound gotten his car and start chasing after them. And then realized you know, OSHA, I'm shot actually, this doesn't feel so hot and drove himself to the hospital and the police refuted that they're like, well, this isn't shown in the security cameras from the nearby fire department the cellphone records from McKinley don't match up with where he said he was. And apparently I was reading new store yesterday. There's a police cruiser two policemen parked about sixty five feet away from where this alleged incident took place, and they're like why what are you talking about? So they charged him with making false statements to the police. And he was found not guilty in court. So you make of that what you will. And then there was a former marine can't Croker who works with Croker partners. Although Croker partners their website has this. Disclaimer up on it, and it says, although I'm looking at it. Now right here. Yeah. Croker partners LLC has no active engagements underway and Haiti is not in a position offer comments on recent developments in the country that said, despite the fact that they're chief operations officer was just arrested down there. This couple Serbian guys. One of them is a naturalized American resident so. He works for a company called k seventeen that I was doing a little bit of research on their downs based down in the Washington DC area. But what company was actually contracting? These guys. There was some sort of front. I maybe front company sounds a little too far east. But there was some sort of contracting company that they had to bid on the contract for an order to secure it. I mean that will all come out in the wash so backtrack a little bit. And speaking to my source on the subject what actually happened here was that these guys this group of guys had been hired by the Haitian central Bank. And if you pull down the article, you'll have to forgive my horrible French accent? But it is stop right there. The Bank della Republic, the Haiti Biard h which is it's basically the Haitian treasury department, and from what I've been told they hired these guys Osmond McKinley Croker and their associates to go down there and do VIP security to do like security consultations, secure like infrastructure type assessments security assessments, and to do armed security for city to city monetary transfers within Haiti so in this sense. Now, this is where you get into some of the grey areas. I mean, these guys were not down there running like some sort of five by night mercenary operation or coup or or anything like that. Like they have to look at it from their perspective. They look at it like, I'm contracting with the Haitian federal government. It's not like they're working for some criminal elements. So their minds everything's on the up and up. But here's the thing as it turns out, of course, is that your contracting with one faction of the Haitian federal government. It's not like you're contracting with the US government where we have a relatively normal remind federalized system where it's not like if you go and work for the Republicans, the Democrats are going to come in arrest you or if you work for a local state government that the federal government won't be in the know or something like that. Right. Right. And if you do a contracting armed guard work for the state of New York, it's not like the FBI is going to come in arrest you for that over some sort of like intro polit intro political feud that they have going on between the state and federal government. I mean that that's like the sort of banana Republic stuff that we don't have here in the United States, thankfully, but Haiti of course, I mean, it's a third world country. They are. Are destitute. It's impoverished corruption is endemic. I mean, I've talked to people I've never been there myself. I've talked to people who've worked security down there, including Jim west where security detail down there that was way back in the nineties, but I've talked to also a friend of mine who did a documentary down there. And it's just a deplorable situation. It's a really sad situation that the people who have down there have to live in. So that's just a little bit of context to that. And so the problem was for these former seals and marine when they went down there from what I've been told the central Bank didn't give them identification cards. The call. The Bank is Biard h the central Bank didn't give them identification cards and did not inform the local police, then tell them that they were there. So again from the perspective of the local police, you can't really fault them for for making this arrest. I mean, they were right to be suspicious. And once they made the arrest now. Now, these contractors are caught up in this the middle of this political feud because from what has come out through the Miami Herald looks as if the president's office hired these guys through the central Bank to do this extra security work. The prime minister on the meantime, the prime minister and the president or arrivals and hate each other and down in Haiti. And so the prime minister's office the second he sees this arrest using it for his political advantage. And he's saying these guys are foreign mercenaries here to assault to the executive office, etc. Etc. And that just isn't true. That's not what was happening there. So they get arrested on what on Sunday, I believe it was. And then yesterday they were all released and the the US embassy personnel escorted them to the airport and had them flown to Miami. And from what we saw because there's video of it on a regular commercial flight. Yeah. Correct. So I mean thank goodness for that. And I know Chris Osmin has this kind of weird obsession with with this company. And you know, we get into that just I'm just going to tire a touch upon it and the interest of full disclosure that he has had this long running very public feud on social media with Brandon Webb who is the CEO of hurricane and this audience knows Brandon because brand you know, right early on the he'll be back on a couple of weeks. And and news rap and soft. Operato or properties of hurricane. So essentially, Brandon Webb is my boss. He's he's the guy. I answer to if anything comes up and myself. I mean, we have editorial discretion I do pretty much do what I want. But as far as like business decisions, you know, Brandon is at the helm, right? So I think it's important to disclose that now despite Chris Osmin spreading these very like asinine conspiracy theories on social media about about this company, and even even revealing details of my personal life on his Instagram, which I didn't appreciate and people would send me screen shots of it. Like, Well, Chris Osmond, talking about your honeymoon and stuff. I'm like this is weird. Like this guy needs to get a life for figure his own thing out, whatever this is about. But I try to separate myself from that. I. Long story short as distasteful some of the things I think Osmond has done. I I would not wish Haitian prison on anyone. And when I came in here or when I was prepping, the do this this podcast last night. I was like well as I was writing this article that that we published yesterday. I was like thinking we're going to have to come in here and talk about human rights conditions and Haitian prisons, and you know, that US citizens are down there being abused. And I would not wish that on on Osmond or McKinley or anybody. I mean that is just a fucking horrible thing. And again, looking at it from their perspective, they're black. We were working for the Haitian government. Like, what's the problem, we won't work in for like drug cartel or something like, we've us alone. But I'm glad that they got released and that they're back in in the United States. Now as we understand it. These guys were arrested when they landed in Miami. It's not clear yet what the charges were they arrested for quote, unquote, you know, mercenary activities there's also the question of the weapons so they got arrested with all those those rifles. The question is how did they get their? We're those weapons. Acquired locally in Haiti because of the central Bank are allowed to be armed because obviously there's a high chance that that the Bank could be robbed or that. There could be a transit heist as you're moving money around. And there are quite a few guns and Haiti to say the least so maybe they were locally acquired. Maybe they were you know, property of the Haitian government, which were would that was and they were issued to these guys when they arrived in Haiti. But then there's a question were they brought from the United States. Then the question becomes we're they brought legally because if that stuff is an all blessed off on like you cross your T's and dot your eyes like that serious federal time for weapons trafficking. Just a little sidebar on that story. And I mean Faulk I'll just I'm just going to tell the story without mentioning the person's name because people recognize it, a friend of mine reached out to me this was maybe five years ago for years ago, and he's was going to meet with a security company again fairly not not a company that's known for like providing armed guards or security contractors. But a company that's involved in security say they say physical security here in the United States and elsewhere and has pretty instant name, brand recognition. He was contacted by the owner of this company who wanted to send this gentleman, I know. To Mali to conduct offensive operations like shooting people killing people to take over some gold mine or some some mining facility and one in my friend to take sniper rifles with them over there and go don't kill people at this fucking mind. And I told my buddy I was like, listen, bro. This has FBI sting all over it just walk away and any did, thankfully, but it just goes to show. It's like what we were talking about with contracting job in in Yemen with Dell Comstock, and I mean, I stand by what I said in that case like I have to encourage other veterans out there. Don't get involved in this shit like please own server. You said that prior to the interview at L Comstock. So we didn't even know Dell was involved at the time. And I remember you went on kind of a veteran. Yeah. Just like, you know, you may think this sound school. It sounds very romance. Antic? But I mean, don't do it, man. And I know that or I'm sure that is men and McKinley felt like everything was on the up and up because they're contracting with the Haitian government. But they probably were not aware of the political situation. And maybe not the social situation in Haiti, and you know, that proved to be their undoing in some ways. So even if they're contracts domestically like like, we covered the tiger Swann deal out at the Dakota Access pipeline. Like, man, you gotta be really really careful about this kind of stuff. And it's one thing if you're contracting for the US government working at the G R S stuff, or if you're a green badge or a contractor even working for, you know, ground branch or some other paramilitary aspect of the Central Intelligence Agency. That's one thing. I mean, you're protected by the US government. But you go overseas and you start working these shady contr. Facts. And you have to understand that first off whatever you do. You are no longer a uniformed American soldier. You are not working under title, ten of the US code, which which authorizes military action. You are not protected by the Geneva Convention. You are not protected by American law because you are outside the United States. You have basically zero protection. What's none whatsoever? So I would encourage young guys young Rangers young seals whoever it is. When you're looking at these contracts and taking them take them to an attorney have it reviewed. I a lot of people have this notion that you know, because this this contract and company is owned by a former seal or a former delta force green beret, whoever it is that it's legit. The reality of the vast vast majority of these companies as just a website that looks really professional, and we do risk mitigation and maritime security, and this and that when really it's just like one guy, maybe two guys, and what they do is they go out and just bid on every every contract they can find and what they're doing is trying to under bid the competition. So they will put in recklessly bids on contracts to try to get the secure that that contract for themselves. And then they have to fill the contract with a. Miniscule budget because they underbid everyone else. So these companies will make it look as if they have a bunch of former delta operators like hard core. Stand up dudes on standby ready to go fulfill the terms of the contract, but really it's just one guy working for this this company. And now they're going to be surprised as anyone else when they actually get the contract and they're like oh shit. And now they have to fill it out. They have to flesh it out with personnel. So you start making phone calls whoever's available, and you don't get necessarily the most professional people, and I'm not saying that to a cheap shot at the guys who are on this particular contract. And I was going to say in this case when you say make phone calls these guys both at a very big. So full media presence. I believe McKinley deleted Instagram. We know Osborne is big on Instagram. If you're out there, you know, talking about your credentials easy. Gotta find Dell com- neck is pretty active on soc. Media's that's actually an interesting point you're making their, Ian. Because I was told the same thing about the dapple contract. The tiger Swann not just tag respond, but other companies out there doing the Dakota Access pipeline contract. They suddenly got this money thrown at them to do site security for the pipeline. And I was told by several people that that's what it turned into that. It was a rush to find personnel. And they were basically just like finding people on social media. And like, it makes us and them DM's like, bro, you vailable come out here and do this and do and in doing that, you don't necessarily get the most professional most qualified people. Yeah. You're able unlike someone make no linked in profile, if something you see through Chris osmond's profile and all that that he is regardless of is reputation is legit as a navy and right. It's the fast easy way to do it. But it doesn't necessarily give you the best results. So it's a it's a weird situation. And that's why when you start talking about private security contracting companies private intelligence firms. So many of them are just a cluster. Fuck. I mean, they're really joke when when you start like you see the fat man behind the curtain, and it's like, this is not cool at all. It's really just a fly by night kind of operation. That's gertz. The the the line of the law, very carefully. But again despite all of this. That's just a little background. I hope you know, some other veterans listening to this can. Put in their back pocket and take with them before they get involved in something like this because I hate to see any of our guys end up in that kind of situation. But again, I I am glad Osmond and McKinley in Croker and all these other guys have been released from Haiti because they they would have been held in and really deplorable conditions. And they're human rights would not have been respected down there and the court system down there is also completely corrupt. So a quick search can show you that there they pack something like seventy six guys into a tiny cell when you're in a prison in eighty. Yeah. They'll just put you into a cage like, you're you're an animal or something. It's it's horrendous view two videos out there. So we'll see what happens from here that apparently these guys were arrested as they got off the plane or as the plane arrived in Miami. And again, we don't know what the charges were. I guess the FBI is going to do their own investigation on it. And we'll see where that goes. Yeah. So it's been an interesting couple of days. And I'm glad that we went. You went in depth really on this because I can tell you just posting about this and Instagram and looking at the comments on your article on news rep, there's a lot of conspiracy out there one which I saw was a several people saying that sound like these guys were going to rob the national Bank of Haiti. Yeah. An onset it's nonsense. And you know, you're not doing these guys any favors either by spreading conspiracy theories. You say that stuff enough times? I mean, I guess we shouldn't underestimate the power of social media or twenty nine teen. You say that stuff over and over again, some people take it to the truth. I even get a little nervous sometimes because people comment on photos of me that are floating around there say, oh, he's in the CIA CIA paramilitary this and that and it's like, no, dude, I have never been in the CIA. And when you go around saying stuff like that like if I get detained in a country five years from now, and you Google my name, and the first thing that pops up is Jack Murphy CIA, it's like that's not good for me. And so I mean, saying spraying those conspiracy theories about Osmond and McKinley in these guys like that's not good for them. And and it's not right to do that to them either. I know people gossip and Chris Osmin gossips to you know, he's guilty of it. But I don't know. I think we should try to endeavor. To do a little bit better than that. So then a lot of the other comments that I got were from people saying, you know, sarcastically. I wonder why Safra radio or news rep is covering this. Maybe it has a little something to do with Chris Osmond. And I mean, I tried to explain to these people we covered what was going on with Dell Comstock, which is somewhat similar situation. And we have a very friendly connection with Dell com- doctors hostility between us and Dell we covered it. We covered it objectively, and we covered the dapple contract covering this. Whether it was Chris Osmond or not like it just so happens that Chris Osmond has honestly talked Aww shit about our. Oh, and then in intern really bad mouth to all of us at the company. I mean, yeah. Put up stickers bashing the company and saying negative stuff about all of us. A lot of stuff that was proven not to be true. If you listen to this podcast, you know, anytime Brandon ever gets into that type of thing, I've never really gotten into it because I don't I don't know the guy. But I mean, I do think it's just. If you're gonna you know have an Instagram devoted to badmouthing, someone better, I've pretty squeaky clean reputation because now when you Google, Chris Osborne. So the first thing that comes up at least have your facts straight. If nothing else, I mean, personally, I've never addressed Osmond before and I've never addressed any of the gossip because to me it's about as interesting watching private do push-ups. This is like this is thirteen year old shit. Like, what is what is this? I never have either I've been in the room like people listen to podcasts Brandon has talked about it. But you really can't find clips of me ever addressed the only time Chris Osmond ever made contact with me as I remember on Twitter on fears lessened at some point when he could listen to it. But you know, and asked me, why don't have him on the cash than I had to be like, you know, dude, I respect your service. But it's not it's not my podcast. This this podcast. So platform is owned by brand and web. And if he's not interested in having you on. I'll put this out there right now. I if Chris and or McKinley indoor Croker wanna come on this podcast discuss what happened in Haiti I would be more than happy to extend the platform for that. And let them tell their side of the story. I'm not interested in smearing any of these guys interested in and telling the facts, and I report on special operations news report on. Private military contractors, quote, unquote, mercenaries all over the world. All the time. I've been doing this for years, and this story I would be definitely reporting on. A bunch of white guys. White Americans are could be black Americans. They're saying, yeah. What you're saying is true because they stand out in this country. I mean, a bunch of a bunch of white cats from the United States big touted up, dude. Stereotype of what a US contract looks. Yeah. I I would be reporting on this story, regardless. But I I don't have any personal animosity towards Osmond. I mean or McKinley. I wish I I wish Osmond would kind of like be more factual and some of his accusations. And I'd appreciate it. If he would not discuss my personal life, you know, publicly on social media like that. But if that's what he wants to do he can do that. I mean, so be it. I guess. Life goes on. But I'm not going to go out there and make up stories about the guy. And that's why I did as best. I could you know report this in an unbiased way and make this disclosure that he has some some beef with Brandon and with this company. Yeah. But this was just something that needed to be addressed. And I've never addressed the guy when he's gone on other podcasts with people were ASTA towards us for other reasons that I you know, I've chosen and you have to do not really get into. Now, there's been so many lies spread about the company about the CEO. And like a lot of the stuff that's been. That's been spread has been proven to be false. I mean, I was told like this company wasn't going to exist. But by twenty nineteen. My last month, we weren't going to. It's I don't know. I really don't. I it's like crazy ex girlfriend stuff. It's hard. It's hard for me to. Yes. I agree that stuff is insignificant. And that's why we don't get into it. This is very significant and a new story. And I don't think any of you could read this story and deny that this is the type of thing that we cover and it's conspiracy that we're covering this just because it involves a guy guy's been hostile towards Andrew. And again, if those guys wanna come on this podcast and talk about what really happened in Haiti and tell their side of it. I happy to do that. I'm just not going to get into the gossip. And fuck this guy come on, man. Like, I'm thirty five year old, man. I don't have time for that. It would probably make for an interesting show too to be honest. Because when we Adele Comstock on it was good to at least, go in-depth. Yeah. Yeah. Was and you know, people could draw their own conclusions. I think there's people listening to podcast who who feels that Dale really to they feel del really fucked up doing what he did there's probably other guys who took Dale side. And and you know, Dell's basically saying had this one. Guy not opened his mouth, you would've never even heard about. And again, I mean it gets into the grey areas of contracting from from DALE'S perspective, they were working for the Murati military seems seems legit. Right. But and he said he's like we're taking out terrorists were taking bad guys. We're doing the same thing. The United States government does. Yeah. You're not a soldier anymore. You're not in. You're not in the military. You're not you're not acting under title, ten of the US code. You're not working under the auspices of the a UMF authorization for the use of military force though, his past after nine eleven you are now a private citizen working private security, and you don't have those legal protections. So I definitely encourage all the other vets out there to consider some of these nuances and some of these grey areas in the legalities and just because the guy you're working for was occuren- l- in XYZ special operations unit. Doesn't mean that what he's telling you to do. Is legitimate and legal unlike them as far as I know, by the way, I mean, it's been probably three or four months since this. Dell com- stock came up probably three months and not nothing has happened. He has been arrested. I'm as far as I know Dale is, you know, normal life and hasn't had any consequences for the story that came out. Yeah. So far. I mean, we'll see what happens with that. I think they'll probably be some follow up stories to eventually. But man that was a hell of an interesting story. Yeah. But I was I mean, I could be wrong. You're you might think it'd be a little bit wait for them to do something this point they can. But I mean, it's I don't surprise. I I don't know. I really don't know. I mean investigations can can take a long time. But I have no idea. All right. Well with that we do have guests this episode. But we definitely had to address that Mike lampy. We're gonna get right into it. Back on the podcast air force chief Master Sergeant Mike lampy. You guys last heard Mike on episode three ninety one and we didn't get quite up to when Mike cross paths with previous guest of the podcast and the legend in the community, Mike Vining, which was later on in his military career as we were saying before recorded we really ended with some of your time. And wow, and let's get back into that. I know there's some unanswered questions, and we'll go there just to elaborate a little bit. Mike lampy was on the ground four and a lot of ways for the the birth of air force special tactics. And also got to see the birth of really modern American special operations. So I mean, we had a I had a great time interviewing you last time. And we got up to the point where you were in Laos. And you said that just before the we started recording. You said that you had had some inquiries about Laos and some other things wanted to elaborate on that before before we. Move on to some other topics in your career. That's correct. And yeah, couple inquires that got, you know, I think somewhere in the interview, you know, always start about being followed or flying. So one of the inquiry's was did I ever, you know, learn any flying skills or happened not to need to fly. And the answer is. Yes, now force wasn't my job. But the ravens, you know, basically were kind of accommodating in the sense that when we weren't staying up country based on, you know, the Dassler guidance, you know, you would jump on any plane going back down to bench in to spend the night. And then you'd go back through the same of that, you know, get backed up there. And you know, there was a necessary. Would I call passenger? Terminal or scheduled flights. You pretty much figured out which aircraft going prevention up to two twenty. Alternate was going there to you know, a Twin Otter ac- one twenty three porter. That's how you got the work. And then the same that, you know or same cycle with take place when your your head back. If you did spend the night or spend time up there, and so changed only we got jumper ride with the, you know, the ravens, you know, back cedar, they didn't have their backseat or we had a chance to fly back from long Chen intervention. And of course, during that flight, they basically myself, and Charlie and accept the other folks that. You know, transit back and forth. You know, they gave basic lessons on flying. No one. And of course, I was fortunate up, and and when I first got up there and doing the flight falling. You know, a couple of the ravens went to Jerry, Ryan and Charlie gay and say, hey, we like take Mike up on a flight to kinda see you know, what we're doing which would help him as flight volley skills because you know, and so I got to fly a couple mission again, please understand. It wasn't something authorized then. Yeah, it just happened. So I was fortunate enough to you know, plaque couple missions. So with raven facs, but it really helped me number one. And some of the things I was. Doing reference flight balling Nate with the triple C reference fighters and watch and the twenty eight out of log chip, and it definitely gave me a perspective of what the the raven fact was seeing what he was doing which helped me, you know, later on in my career, especially when I came back to Thailand at debt one fifty six hours, and we were running training for the Cambodians and Ford airtight. So if gave me that perspective from from raven fact, looking, you know, you know, from altitude, and then Jerry wine, they ac- commander also took me out a couple times. Again, got understand. This is authorized what's supposed to be doing. But he went out flu few, you know, strafing runs dropping bombs on. Targets. And so then you got I got a perspective of what it feels like to be in the back of the twenty eight and enrolling in scraping. The you know troops in contact were dropping offs. So. When I got into Thailand in teaching for their guide procedures. Really enhanced. My spill sets of what we were caging then to the Cambodians distance direction from whereas what and ticking out what apply see from the the air easily. And then basically talking the pilot down to another odd Jake or another rain feature eventually to where the chart was. So you are you're refining. The the what became the combat controller mission. I if I'm hearing this, correct? Well, you know, it basically enhanced my understanding of, you know, let's call J fact day but afford Eric guy right back dad for guy being somebody work and from the ground, but have the opportunity to work from the ground. But also the in the air again, not my mission. Now was what I was there. It's just. But. Since and and of course, getting the fly occasionally with the ravens, and basically, you know, they pretty much say, hey, you got it like, Charlie or, you know, whoever slide a backseat and let us kind of fly them a one back invention. Put it in the pattern. You know report down win then near craft over to them. So and then and then when we when I got into Thailand, the raven some of the ravens were there as instructors to train the Cambodians as well. As a lot of the key twenty eight pilots for train the Cambodian again. It really added to my my tool bag when you talk about being the guy in the ground supporting SF OT or seal tune or unilateral mission where you're putting in you know. Air strikes or talking fighters gunships, Mike forgive I forgive my memory, but the mission in in Thailand was that called the fed mission. Yeah. I would call it fit mesh. No, no. I'm just trying to think the mission to train the Cambodian was F E T. I may be wrong though. Yeah. Well, the the term I knew it from his like ankle is scoot program. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Support Cambodia out of tiling. Now, I'm sure there was other names to that. But, you know, get one fifty six, you know, I think you know, I've got over Thailand seventy three seventy four debt. One fifty six out became USA, US MAC, die detachment Udorn. And that's when they brought plenty Admiral to, you know, Kerr lateral. But I think if I recall correctly promoted, the one-star back and put him charge just MAG with the sole purpose of train the Cambodian forces. You know in the air side, and I. Discussed that a little bit. And that we in Thailand, you know, comback Kroll is responsible for training the Ford air guides. You know, Cambodian air guys at the four year school that we had that have been put together in the late sixties early six late sixties and seventies. And as well, as you know, we we're involved in training airdrop truce for the one twenty three's and you have the twenty eight and they'll once and the maintenance or the maintainers so is a robust field training detachment per se to train the Cambodian air force and has tremendous expertise and professional from all all ammo S's AFSC that, you know, worked at that detach. And and I I guess the Craig off in that unless you have any other questions. On that. No, actually, Mike. What is hoping to discuss a little bit was the how you got brought into brand X and just to set the stage a little bit for the listeners in nineteen seventy nine the US embassy in Iran was captured by you know, quote, unquote, Iranian students who overran the premises and took everyone hostage. And now this became a big dobacco for our government as far as how we were going to rescue our people and get them out of there. And you know, we've talked about this incident at length I think before with people like Mike Vining who are involved in the rescue effort. But you you were part of a you're part of that endeavor. But definitely came at it from a different perspective than I think any of the previous interviews we've done. Ransacked was kind of name that one of the guys that come back controllers came up with Hank was Peter de Holt same up with that. Because. Brand X started out. I guess if I recall is called project recognition out of mass headquarters and basically gentlemen's Major John Arne or captain cart. John Carney's the time was working as to twenty first air force. And he was given the task to bring select comback trollers together from different teams stateside to basically support. I and I wanna say in you know, was Paul blue light which was a precursor to delta. Yes. And and you know, a lot of interaction with the the ranger battalion which at that Time, inC was second ranger battalion. Hank who ten occur Wayne Downing was commander at that time? And during this this. Process. I was still in the Philippines 'cause I was transferred. You know, win everything, you know, went went to Helena Handbasket in Laos Cambodia and Vietnam Vietnam grants. Yeah. Transfer to the Philippines. They shut down our two cats or our team probably within thirty days. I mean, so everything happened April may timeframe and signed into the whole theme. So the end of may nineteen seventy five during that tour duty when I was there this project recognition, but we'll call brand X coach Carney wanted his people to be do qualified halo in scruple. And I just happened to be in charge of the scruple, Okker and Philippines now. I basically came over state size to be an ad joke. Scuba instructor Carney in many of the other brand X personnel and some which eventually showed up in debt one Mekos after desert one where the students, and that's the first time I had met on Carney or coach Carter who was head. And so when we graduation yet together from scruple school, he mentioned if I had an interest of, you know, maybe being coming part of this group, which he said, I really can't tell you much about. And I kind of told myself, you know, you know, sir. Yeah. It interests me. But I I've got orders to the seventh. Esa less in my mind, Germany, you know, consecutive overseas tour leaving. So maybe when I'm done with that tour, I be happy. To you know, entertain that. Well, won't be old. You know, coach party was able to change my orders. And so that going Firminy they all I was reassigned to Charleston air force Bates, and understanding what brand X was was a pickup team. So every time when out one of these eight breeze with whoever, you know, the the blue light force or the Rangers or a combination of both. He would select the individuals from each of the different teams be the mcchord team Norton team Charleston team Little Rock team, which way comback troll passport. And is that time and they would have to bring their equipment. And then they meet at a certain location be brag or wherever and they basically play. Dan and interface with their army counterparts. Go execute the mission. And then they would go bring their take their quickness and go back home to their base and so- coach Carney was able eventually to convince the powers to be headquarters. Mac in other air force fans that he needed to have all the brand X personnel that he wanted. He wanted to select at one base. And so I ended up being one of those individuals along with John corn Mitch Brian dick west and others. And the interesting thing is is we all served in southeast Asia to get you know, we were in Thailand together Philippines, together and some of us that worked in and out to get. So, you know, we've, you know, we knew each others moves on the on the chessboard for lack of term. And so when I got reassigned for the Philippines course, et make my wife happy because my wife's family. I'm really were was in France. And so when I told her we're not going to Germany. That went over like turn to Punchbowl. But I showed up I think the last week of October of seventy seventy nine, and I if I'm, you know, my memory serves me correctly were just finishing up the validation the final Blau Dacian exercise. I think Warren Burr, maxim or North Carolina with delta certification as the US's counter-terror has as I recall from Colonel Beckwith book, he talks about how they finish the certification. And you know, he went to sleep just exhausted from the whole processes because the squadron they had trained to conduct a number of hostage simulated hostage rescue missions. And he goes to sleep exhausted. They wake up in the morning. Because the incident in Iran had just happened like the day after the unit was validated. Yeah. I think I wanna say the unit that final allegation was like the third of November second or something like that. I mean all was together. And yeah, you're right than a hostage or take a four November. And then, you know, off to the races reference trying to figure out, you know, how how you go about rescuing, you know, fifty three Americans halfway round the world and the middle of the capital of Iran. Yeah. Could you could you talk about that from from your perspective? And you know, what you saw what you observed as far as the planning and training process for all that began. I can speak to my portion, of course, time on I think I was a e six promote ably seven at the time. So I you know, I was down what I call the boot level. But and it's a good place to be. Yeah. And you know, my involvement, you know, of course, there was only ended up being six of seven of us that really engaged in the planning and rehearsal for for Iran and went into Iran on the first aircraft and the bulk of my time as well as my other fellow combat controllers, we're working with the ranger company Charlie company, which was commanded by Dave grains, at that time. And I think sure we'll was the battalion commander. And of course, we did a lot of work with them primarily what I call the second night rehearsal reference the field that was going to be secured to receive the one forty. One's to Transload, the the the delta personnel and the hostages onto their after they were pulled out of the embassy and the other location, and so our involvement my involvement, primarily revolved around that, you know, we get some work on a couple desert type strips out was that out one of the lake that's by Edwards Air Force base. Also, we were involved in initially one of the scenarios was dropping blitz in to review. So we ended up going through those scenarios, you know, recovering the limits and trying to set up revealing points and working with the cease talion crews the. Navy crews as well as there was a couple other scenarios that we ended up jumping in with the out there in. Slips my mind, but it was out there in the desert. Huma early grounds with belt, and we were rehearsing a when I call and cross country movement. Delta with mules motorcycles allow those type things that again that was just a knows fair. Now, you know film wind all each delta. Was, you know, you know, focus pretty much strictly on taking down the two targets, and then to my knowledge to basically had that down, you know, to a science and well prepared I think execute that mission. If the we could get him into the capital city, which I don't think the Iranian set anticipated any of us ever are Americans trying excuse me try to do that. And also we worked with the engineers the wiz kits out from the agency. They had a place, you know, up in DC that actually Bill the remote control lights. You know? They were regular what I call being bagged whites that we used in the early sixty seventies Kamarck L Z's, but they turned him in to remote control lights with up antennas. And then they had a thing that fit in the one thirty up in the Coptic you plug in that could activate the lights about I think was about ten miles out. So we ran a lot of different tests. Basically run a Clinton esque fine airfield if I understand right? That's Brett those those lights that were developed and we test it. I think around down at army hunter army airfield, eventually were the ones that John Carney took in to the desert to desert one, I think it was about thirty plus days prior to actually swans you and the agency flew in on a Twin Otter with the many by and he went into soil samples, and in planet, the remote control lights in what I you know, again, my direction may be off I called like southern Elsie and initially when we were Verson, you know, we we were kind of focused on one Elsie in the desert. You know, one that the coach at survey, you know, and done soil samples on and as things evolved. And I think it was again, I may be getting ahead of myself on this. But I think, you know, for me, and I think most of the other six combat controllers wasn't until we get moved from Charleston through mind, and I think in the Wadi teeny, which was our initial stuff drop point. Egypt and then Oman if I remember. Yeah. With always Egypt where we kinda found out that what we're gonna have you gonna do to dual runways in the desert and allow. Yeah. And and to to my knowledge, at least, I was never on any rehearsal. That we, you know, prior to that that we had done dual runways on or in the desert and done, the the repealing, but as where we basically found out and myself and John corn and dick west, and but kansallis, you know, put our heads together, you know, because free of us pretty much had the responsibility. Once we landed into desert one into the rich inal LC's, the remote control lights, and we have responsibility kind of going across this so-called road rant through the the lake that and establishing the second l z second box and one and that became quite challenging as mission unfolded based on the time line that was giving us the regional time. I'm line was we had an hour from landing, you know. To, you know, get everything set up, and they had included the the tax and the portable tack, and you know, stab wishy inverted y for the received the helicopters. And again, you know, we're we're kind of focused on one Elsie now. Now, we're basically transitioning to run parallel desert runways, I didn't hand know that. Yeah. Yeah. That you know, that, you know, you know, again, I speak for myself. I was never involved in aim rehearsal where we were running. Dual run ways at night in the desert's not that we didn't do some on single type things not that we didn't do practice repealing back. The one thirty, you know, all those things, but you know, people ask did you ever do a full dress rehearsal on and my answer is no now delta had no doubt ran numerous full dress rehearsals on their takedown and and their movement from their height sites. If you know where I think it was dick meadows went in and up, and they were going to be transported by trucks into into the capital, etc. So I have no doubt that delta, you know, from aid Z, you know, had that thing wired down going net as you know, face on that but from the air side. We never rehearsed agency from my perspective. That's what Mike Vining said. When I asked him. I asked him the question as like, do you think the mission could have been successful? And his answer was if we had gotten to the embassy. There's no question that we could have succeeded in our mission. And I I agree with that hundred ten percent. And you know, I think people have said, you know, people actually more knowledgeable in the complete planning processes the long phone. The Tanner the weak link was always the helicopters and force as you're probably aware of you know, we went through a Hank two maybe three top jumpers. Eventually that was the crews that, you know, flew, the, you know, the nine helicopters launched to the nine helicopters to go into desert. Want and. And so two digress. A little bit. You know? So we you know, we did our planning team. We kind of practiced on the motorcycle that delta had provided us I think it was Yama on to fifty to, you know, help speed up things, and then we moved into on Sora. And eventually, you know, we ended up watching out there as you. Well know, and when we went feet dry. I think shortly after that is when the lead MC ran into the hoop. And of course, coach Carney had flown in you know, with the agency guys and they too have encountered a boots online line always. But the guy flying fear crafts includes a Jim Ryan, you know, said no from, you know, climb up get up hanging around fifteen hundred feet, you know, they L and you're both that dust clout. And so when when the one thirty, you know kit that of course, you know, it's like somebody rubbing sandpaper on the side of the the. The aircraft. And I think also at that time the HSEN Tanna had broken loose. So the load masters had opened the ramp and figure out a way to rake and bring that antenna 'cause it was beating on the side of the one-third. So as we so coach Carney was up in the cop with the active when the console to activate of Bowman. He just kind of branchy was the pilot said, hey, you know, just climb up, you know, but you know, that fifteen hundred feet or a little bit up in a if I recall correctly, the aircrew one thirty aircrew had been briefed that radar coverage. You know, didn't really start until two thousand feet so anywhere between you know, ground level and up to I guess two thousand feet that you wouldn't be painted on radio. So that's what we did. And then. My understanding is the radio operator on that. Or crap radio back secure palms back to the one thirties. Now, if I'm correct the helicopter pilots, you know, that launched off the carrier didn't get the same type brief. So when you kind of read the different narrative, so the stories they pretty much stayed in the boot they were flying. It's five hundred feet or thousand feet, which impacted obviously along the way where ended up losing three of the helicopters of the original nine that launched up the Kerio. And just to eight the picture for the listener real quick, Mike you guys the operators who were going to execute. The assault flew win on a C one thirty from Oman to desert one inside Iran, but the helicopters that were to ferry them along the next leg were being phone in from off coast off a carrier, if I remember correctly, and and then on the way, the helicopters went through a very vicious sandstorm. So when they arrived at desert one where the operators are standing by those heloc a few of them as my said, I think a couple of them had to turn around and the others were in pretty beat up condition. And then as far as the plan was concerned now, you have the operators and the helicopters co located they would have translated onto the helicopters flown to desert to a second staging site loaded up on trucks and the next day would have executed the actual. Embassy down if memory serves Mike, I just wanted to throw that out there. So people listening. Tracking along with what you're saying. Yeah. And that's correct. Thank the other point is zoned helicopters used at being pre staged on that carrier. You know, as we were running Ursel. So that the helicopters that they were using during all the rehearsals up to the point when we got the execute order state Numa. And so I don't know. I don't know what how the navy maintain those. I can't speak to that. But I do understand that, you know, all those helicopters that they had a very short amount of time to kind of worked out of the bugs, and, you know, take him for a few tests flights, but it wasn't the birds that they had you know, had tweaked and had flown during all the rehearsals. These are the pre stage telecopiers that were sitting below debt suit, Mike. Can you walk us through than from your point of view? What happened when you got the desert one? Sure. Now as we approached as one after we came out of the food the sandstorm. You know, the lights wrapped debated and and so as we're coming in on her protest the aircraft's coming pro. There was a vehicle or vehicles that were spotted driving down through the l z and so ended up executing a goal ramp which burn up about ten minutes of valuable time. From from my perspective of, you know, trying to get the L C established, you know, both L Z's in order to receive the remainder of the see-won thirties, which also were functioning as refuelers for the hell cap, you know, with its onboard. And so eventually, you know, the goal round didn't have any other incident we landed that was a very firm landing to say, the least and. And so as the opening up the ramp, then we're basically off loading were grieved by a bus, you know, this flashing the lights, and, you know, I don't know if he's talking horns, but you know, obviously that some of the operators or the the Rangers that were offloading shot out a couple of tires and sees the bus, and if my memory serves correctly now, we have I think forty six or forty eight Iranians on a bus in the middle of the l z. So that was the first challenge, you know, I challenge you, obviously, if we secured, a buzz with Iranians, and now we got for who's going to guard the Iranians and get the bus with the couple of tires flap off to the main Elsie or that the southern L Z work through that. Now, the other thing have see the ho- boo the sandstorm and went through the land site. So instead of just being when I consider hard lake that sand. Yeah. Actually now had a what I call few inches of suspended store almost like Telcom pout. And so you've got the one thirty with engines running that's kinda create its own, you know, dust storm for lack of term. In there, you know, 'cause they're not shut anything down. And so we move on over to the the Elsie where establish and visibility was pretty much nailed none because of some of the suspended dust or saying, so we had to go to some old techniques or, you know, decide where we're going to put the first corner life of the box in one and basically the compass heading and walk off. And then once you could see the guy any further work have good beat on 'em. He holds in place. And then you'd move up in that, you know, give them the Cup of setting. And so that took a while, you know, even though it was just four lights. You know, we're trying to get everything for SEIs, you know, for the aircraft aircraft. And so we've got that established and the first one thirty had moved up to sparking Arkansas at the other end. I call. Other Nailsea to get physician. In weight. And then we ended up pretty much on time receiving the second aircraft. But during this timeframe one of the ranger blocking teams had deployed down will call the road up to put the blocking to ensure no traffic or would interfere with the operations and about that time. They had a fuel truck. You know that pretty much ran ran their physician didn't stop and went through. And then I I don't recall they I think the used the law, and they shot up shot it with a law, which basically now you feel for without them. Dallas fueled had exploding out there, you know, semi on the approach path of the aircraft coming into northern L C. So. You know? So now, we got a bus with the forty some Iranians we got a fuel truck on fire, and you know. And we continue to receive one thirties and position them and the ones that have limits on it. You know, basically those hoses, you know, got pulled out and and and position, and we put the verge y in so we could taxi the taxi the fifty three so to connect him to the Levick, repealing processed. And again, I sorry about saying, and again, but, you know, vastly we got all the C one thirties on the ground and properly position and everything set up for refueling, the helicopters and each of these one thirties were also bringing in camouflage nets and other things that the the delta guys were offloading to staging point. To be uploaded on the helicopter. So everything there, you know, pretty much went has Scott. And then we wait, and we wait and wages, and eventually the first helicopter showed up and landed in the why and the real challenge is, you know, with fifty threes. They taxi kinda like an aircraft. And so if you can kinda match and now they're pushing some of the suspended dust, so we're kind of hopping them if that makes sense apply. What's kind of popping up to there refueling point as well as as your where, you know, fifty three, you know, especially when they they try to lift off or move. You know, they got about ninety not down wash you have one thirties engine running. And now the helicopters coming in with their down wash. And so what little you know, suspended dust or sand on Bloomberg is all up in the air. So it was kind of. Challenge seeing time for visibility and being able to, you know, see even with N B E N B G's, in some cases, you know, the ones we had really were pretty much ineffective from our perspective. We only just dust goggles. And I think it was the six telecopiers last helicopter that finally arrived. And when it landed. Pretty much to mind all waas Tyke relics that word saying with a high draw. Click and there was a lot of scurrying going on, you know, back and forth of the C P. About this helicopter. And and of course, you know, if you're reading. Colonel with book in the guts, dry, the minimum helicopters. They could basically go to the next site. The high site was six so that's all we had on the ground and six one was non off and in this process. And that's when the season was is to, you know, tack up, you know, everything back on the sea one thirties and watch. And I, you know, I was soom come back another day, and in that process, one of the helicopters on the that I called the northern LC receive, you know, ATC guidance to pick up, and, you know, thank execute. I wanna say executed a turn to go around. And we connect to another one thirty three few because one he was connected to that one. One that Lewis was flying could ten no more app gas pump. And so this guy needed more more fuel to make the trip back to the Carey. And you know, when he lifted up, and again, you know, it was a cloud of dust from my perspective. I could barely see what was going on my position. You know, eventually Kenyan coming down and crashing, you know, into that see one third and pretty much, you know, we had another huge fireball that aircraft. Also had been already loaded with the delta soldiers on board. And I think they had some fifty soldiers on there, if I recall correctly, and you know, it's just to the professionalism and the training the the road masters in the back, but also the sergeant major that took charge in the back because there's only one door anything could exit because of the fire, and they were able to get all those soldiers off that Bruening aircraft. And I think one of them went back and pulled the radio operator was severely burned. The helicopter come down on the front part is Kasich or the firewall, you know, where Ray you up raider set. And and now. Now, we're dealing with minus one thirty minus another second helicopter, and now we're trying to figure out, and of course, there's a lot of people in cages in this trying to figure out how you upload all the soldiers who are brought in by all the C one thirties and now the helicopter crews 'cause Susan was made that to reposition the helicopters or just leave the helicopters in place and just get the personal out. So it was. It was an interesting time trying to figure out, you know, I call decor procedures trying to count for people won't you got everybody. In the midst of still got the fuel truck burning is still got the fuss with the Iranians. And now you've got to see stallions and one thirty Bernie, and you're down a one three actually to one thirties because one of the one thirty came in and dropped off supplies and delta soldiers. We watched that out early 'cause it was going to be one of the lead aircraft or one of the main aircraft involved in night to going into that air field where the one forty one in the fifty three's with linkup. And so we're down to C one thirties, and we're down all the ELA captors. And of course, obviously lost a, you know, find, you know, Americans pay in the sacrifice that night. But you know, trying to figure out how do we get these people 'cause plan was never to leave as one fully load? Role right. Yeah. So so now, you know, pretty much I ain't got each aircraft. You know, pretty much take everything off the aircraft that wasn't tight down. In fact, you know, we hit uploaded the gun cheap. At the Rangers shoes, the motorcycle that that we used off and on you know, other things and that pretty much was coming up to reduce the weight. To take on the personnel. And and there are Clinton so anything that for lack of term wasn't mission. Essential was throwing in the desert offloaded by the soldiers, you know, by the aircrew by take. And eventually we're able to start the movement and do everything we could to account for the personnel on the ground through pretty much, not entertained communications, but going from aircraft aircraft trying to look for the troops aren't major or the the troop commander trying to make sure that we didn't leave anybody high. Also, we launched down to pick up the agency lights as I call them real control lights because they definitely get want those left in the we got those and we replaced them with the Chem lights, you know. And then if you of read in a book, the guts to try, and maybe another books that some of the aircraft released one of the aircraft's mistake and those lights that were put out there. They wind up on them or took a site. And where which I think it was the aircraft. I came out on long with many delta soldiers and. Couple of my fellow convex trollers tick west and Rex lawmen, and we pretty much, you know, as take off and you can matching we're moving off damn slow. And that one thirty was Franken is the engines far as you could. And then we kinda hit a burn burn. So we were up and then we came back down. Him and continued, you know, moving down the thing. But what happened is that pilot if you can kind of vision parallel runways, they got cited on a different set of life in. Box a light. So it kind of took off at angle, and that's why you know jumped off. Oh, and you know, obviously, I have no Jeter by aircraft saying prayers 'cause I shouldn't hell was. Dan, you know, as we're getting ready to take off. Then we get this word. Hey, don't move. You know, I I don't know if it was grenades or if it was blasting caps or something explosive. Had been couldn't account for. So they thought it was somewhere on there. The other thing is this is one of the aircraft that was a reviewer. So we're sitting on. I think it was a five thousand downs. That was partially, you know, pretty much done, but you can imagine the funerals in. So you're watching watching in there, and you know, you you're basically just trying to, you know, get it clean breath of air inside that aircraft. So we're we're Mosey down. And again, my hat's off all the one thirty crews held and airmanship do performance at night in the desert and finally, you could you could basically just feel the pilot and co file no doubt on back on the yoke and the one thirty just kind of grown. You know, you could almost you know, is gonna get out is gonna get up and finally lifted up, but boy are climb out was low as molasses Jan? Eventually, you know, it got the, you know, some altitude, and then they they pop the emergency hatches up above to try to get some air circulating in there. Because of the fumes from that. And we got back to Missouri. Eventually. Couldn't say, happier camper. And I think that goes for everybody. And then really the town in thrall personnel. Very taking place count pets out. You know, if anything was anybody was left behind other than the ones, we couldn't recover from the accident. And one forty one came in. And we stop the delta guys, and they launched back the brag. And then for me and the other comback goals and other personnel. I think it was another day or another day. I think you know. I mean, just you know, it's just all kinds of one's gather. Now before you know, we into an aircraft to go home. So so that that's kind of a short version of my experience. It sounds sounds hair raising Mike I was wondering I know we have to let you go in a few minutes. But we're you then involved in the the second endeavor. I mean, I think it was called snowbird to potentially go back and take another shot at this operation. Yeah. The codename. I was was Honey badger Honey badger, right? Honey bathroom. Yeah. And, you know, shortly after we got back to, you know, you know, Charleston. Coach Carney got a call and he jumped airplane, and they went up to. One of the agencies locations along with the the delta guys meet president Carter. But soon as he came back from that event, we want, you know, we started the planning for the second second attempt, and we pretty much went out the white sands New Mexico. It's pretty much where you know, I spent most by time there with surrenders Charlie company again, and obviously were doing all kinds of different rehearsals. And you know, you know, primarily revolve around, you know, their seizure position processes, you know, dropping jeeps drops and bikes, you know, all that. So yes. And then eventually, as you know, history says they released the hostages, and of course, all this. Time that were doing that the train up for the second Tampa. Of course, there what can, you know, waning C one thirty, you know, with rockets into the I think the soccer field or some area. There was one of the options and many options. I'm not aware of that was one of them. And I guess, you know. What I can close out on the one, you know, we continue on Grenada and Panama on another time. Is sports. And I say this, you know, that I think we have the right leadership. Up at this point staff, but you know, in congress, and you go back and his hallway commission was formed to look at what's the place, and why we failed to rescue the hostile and I would tell but that that was a up. I can't think of a more difficult mission cheaper hand, any military outfit. And I think the thing you have to take an account. We've we again, you know, we can't sprained we work. A what do you call it plying to joint force at that time? You know, everybody came together was doing that part. But today if you look at how they're integrated how they frame together, and how the exit to, you know, replying tune they know each other inside. Now, they know the units strengths and weaknesses. But the fact my point in the hallway mission, obviously alway condition brought about the formation J saw which was a a great move. And so yeah, thank you. Gotta think guys like Senator Cohen Senator Nunn. Goldwater congressman Daniels cheddar that have the foresight the vision that we really need to build a joint command and put these forces under one command and have them work and train sleep with whatever you wanna call it together to find tune. And that joint ability because nobody's going to go to war by themselves. It's always it's doing war. And then that's kind of the thing that I think America does better than anyone else. Militarily is working in a joint environment. Yeah. Yeah. We you know, I can't speak for now. But what I saw for retirement. You know, we were basically mastering the yard of joints. And you know, early on in my career. You know, you hear joint nece was was a, hey, you know, winning why call just to say, yeah, we're doing. Yeah. Now today and even back, then we really grew into a joint force in an empty to the forces the services around the different countries. And you know, again, I credit, you know, our leaders in vers-, but as with the military to have that foresight because in my humble opinion. If we had done that if the four set just been disbanded like to Sante raiders were then you basically would go back, and you know, relive history again somewhere down the road. Mike. This has been incredible. I think's thank you so much for giving us your perspective on this. You know, again, we're going to have to go for around three. I think because. As maybe people listening don't know. But Mike also jumped into Grenada, and Panama and was involved in other counterterrorism operations throughout the nineteen eighties. And then when became a visor senior adviser for so calm. So I mean, there's still much to talk about and we'll have to figure out your schedule. Mike, and and we'll find a good time for you. But we do appreciate you coming on and spend another good hour with us to talk about desert one. Well, it was my honor. And my pleasure. And as you and I look forward to the next interview. Thank you, Mike. Thanks. We'll we'll stay in touch and we'll coordinate for that. Okay. Thanks, guys. I think Mike lampy is high in the running for the most interesting guest, we've interviewed people people are definitely an enjoy this one most interesting man in the world, he got to got to do kind of everything from post Vietnam up until the early nineteen nineties really late nineties, and I always keep in mind. There's new people listening every single episode and people just don't listen every upset. So if you enjoy that go back up so three ninety one. Yeah. We talk about his early career. Joining the air force and some of his first assignments working in Laos, and then we got into of course, Aranh and operation eagle claw during this one. And next time. We'll talk about Grenada in Panama, and he was also involved in some of the aircraft hijacking operations to go in, you know, free hostages elsewhere. So we'll talk about all that stuff. Sounds good man. Maybe it'll be a good interview for more baby April. But definitely in the Neiafu won't get him back on with that be sure to check out crate club. We have different tiers of membership depending on how prepared you wanna be and gift options are available as well. Scott Witter from the load out room. Army ranger drew Wallace who've heard on the show and all those other guys from hurricane involved with the crate club are putting together great year. One hundred percent custom made for us everything from sunglass cases to ABC, bags and other Manley. Prod? And of course, now, and again, you'll find stuff that's not made by us in the premium tier like that vertex bag. It's a club for men by men, you could check that all out of crate club dot US. Once again, that's crate club dot US. Also as a reminder for those lessening now is the time to sign up for the spec ops channel our channel that offers. The most exclusive shows documentaries and interviews covering the most exciting military content today to spec ops channel premiere show training sell follows former special operations forces as they participate in the most advanced training in the country, everything from shooting schools defensive driving jungle and winter warfare, climbing and much more. Again, you can watch this content by subscribing to the spec ops channel, and that's at spec ops channel dot com and take advantage of a membership for only four ninety nine a month. That's spec ops channel dot com. Sign up today. Also. Going to let you guys know. Of course about the news rep financial report exclusive information, you can act on today to secure a brighter future for tomorrow. The news rep financial report can help you. Discover new investment strategies in the defense sector defense industry. Stocks can be a lucrative investment. If you buy at the right time our team of foreign policy security end military experts provide real time intelligence for stocks based on global trends that affect financial markets in the national defense industry by subscribing. Now, you'll get exclusive access to our industry expertise, the news financial newsletter advantage. Our team that offers unmatched defense industry, familiarity and expertise, unbiased knowledge of geopolitical trends and full access to news reps foreign policy security and financial intelligence platform as well as access to our team of experts and analysts if you're interested in that. Which I'm sure many of you are just go to the fin rep tab. It's at the top of the news rep dot com to sign up. Now, that's fin rep at the top of the news rep dot com. You guys are gonna love it. And also one last thing big mountain heroes is now available to stream in its entirety on YouTube, go to YouTube look big mountain heroes as you'll see it's shorter documentary. But these guys got some great Roan footage of skiing, the Alps in Italy. France, Swiss Alps, they did an amazing job guys. You've heard on the show before is AM Burkhardt, Nick bets nikei hill, we owe Jenkins Brandon Webb and if you haven't seen it yet. That's the place to see it. And we we hope you still do become a spec ops channel members suspect up channel dot com. There's plenty of other great footage on there as well. As some pewter stuff that we're going to do with that. If you haven't please leave a review on apple podcasts. I I don't say it enough. But it really helps us out helps raise visibility. And I know that some you guys listen on Spotify, Google play soundcloud, but that's really the best place to do it. Go on apple podcast right on the app. If you have an iphone leave a five star review, and it's greatly appreciated. Yeah. Absolutely. I read all of them. So, you know, whether it's positive negative. Check it all out and take, you know, take the feedback to heart. Sometimes there's some stuff that I realized I improve on improve on and. Yeah. And we get plenty of jets sent to Safra dot radio Soffer dot com. It becomes a lot to keep up with. I didn't spend a pack show with between breaking news and great spotted interview with Mike and we'll see again next episode two. You've been listening to safe rep media, new episodes every Wednesday and Friday, follow this show on Instagram and Twitter at self read lady.