Episode 499 - Sara Owczarczak-Garstecka.
It's Wednesday the thirty first of July two thousand nine hundred. I'm Martin Yelling. He Tom Williams and this is episode. Four hundred ninety nine of marathon talk and on this week's show while four hundred nine thousand nine next week we hit the magical five five hundred countdown to Tokyo twenty twenty one year to go mow lines up at the Great North Run luke trainer tests positive. Tom Speaks to Saragosse Erica sticker about dogs running and dog bites. You send in some splendid picks around the world rerun perch on the podium. Tom Williams where you've been up to to tell you what before I say well. I've been up to doesn't time fly. It seems like yesterday we were thinking about doing a podcast or were you thinking about cost and here we <hes> four hundred and nine hundred nine episodes later and five nearly ten years yeah utterly uncle something like a hundred hours of content. I went back in the listened. We'll talk more about this next week. Of course we get injured so five hundred but I went back and listen to some really early early episode last night yeah so listen to some of those and we're really quite stilted relax professional when when we we were not eh relaxes me on there I think we'd be B._B._C.. In that. When they started off there they were quite stilted work in quite plummy and and now they've liked purposely relaxed and done things like undone the button of the talk shirt women onto the show so I think you've been asked women on this show so we've kind of follow suit really so yes next we we slightly different actually if you changes afoot which will come online next next week growing the presenting team to include common tone Tom to include hair helen know what's an holly Jolly Collie and Tony a lot up more than moving from software social and focusing a bit more on some interviews so yeah if you changes for but you've been Keppel Park running aw incredible I have to say I've done a lot of different things in running in the last winter I do my first my first tomato or not not in short shorted years but I was in my mid twenties but it was probably late ninety s when I got involved in running a little bit and I've been pretty heavily involved ever since and I've done some pretty incredible things and seen some amazing things and have to say I went to Keppel pot ones birthday first birthday on Saturday? It wasn't the most moving experience I've had in running. It was in the top three yeah well. It's it. It's activity like that. That makes you realise higher. Powerful running can be when you put it in a framework you slowing down. Why are you talking so slowly is that you thinking it's activity not like that in speed up speak? That's only yes yes. You can listen back activity like that really put into place. It makes you feel like it's it's worthwhile in a place like that. People don't necessarily know what we're talking about. Keppel potluck for those who don't know is a power within whether weatherbee weatherbee which is a Y._o.. I Young Offenders Institute in Yorkshire Up Niimi and it's got three three hundred fifty kids in the aged fifteen to eighteen think and within whether B. Y.. Y Y there is a unit called the Keppel Union which is the forty eight most vulnerable and challenging young offenders in the whole country and they're absolutely incredible social worker Joe Gray who who I know from here. She's a local runner. He does part one here. She's a social worker particularly in the couple unit and she started a year ago there and it's we were there for their birthday so that that's the context every brilliant my dad work in young offenders institutions for years and years and years like forty years so <hes> yeah can imagine investment. I said to him this part run starting here you know he was mildly surprised. I think we're in is the only young N._F._l.. I think we're in twenty two or twenty twenty one or twenty two. We just started on a first women's prison which is in Australia but it's amazing and actually you know what I think that you can go into prison volunteer just in general some of the prison part runs through a lot of people go and volunteer at the part one at the power themselves is boring you really loudly and it was I think I went in expecting because these these e forty most vulnerable most challenging children in the whole U._K.. Custodial System mm-hmm and I had been in there to help design the cortex she's fourteen and a half laps around around their area of grass idea the unit I had been there to help design the course with the ambassador at the time Williams a year ago. Did you go. We'll just add another lap. When you say design the course us well yeah? Well yeah find something. That was not just the primitive it yeah. They got really nice little kind of grass area. They've got Docs. They've got pawn. They've got got chickens but he's limited kind of way you can run away. You can't until we have to be kind of creative identify what what's at twelve four hundred meters so it must be about three hundred seventy meters through something and yet to be crite quite creative to find three hundred seventy meter lap in fact they've got a winter course which eighteen laps because they can't go on a couple of bits of the of two of the tarmac or whatever where it's icy but met allowed before and a had been to two custodial system parliament before and so I didn't know what to expect and I I was expecting was kind of streetwise fairly aggressive kind of lads that might be a bit intimidating and would be kind of you know sizing you up all the time and it would. I felt like it would be not necessarily lean intimidating environment but I did. I had a preconception of what these kids would be like an couldn't have been further from the truth. I mean they were they were children and they were vulnerable. Children and you know some of them you know I was I was running with a lot who was eighteen and was several years into a sentence with several years still to go and he's just eighteen and we age is about all kinds of things things and I didn't ask what did chemicals like a lovely that but most importantly it gets came across as so vulnerable. You actually wanted to give give them a cuddle like didn't go in there thinking eating you went in there thinking I don't know what to do. You know are suddenly going to kick off. You didn't think of any of those things you just thought these poor poor kids in one of the I was chatting to a lady who was who's a prison volunteer so you can volunteer prisons to go and be it'd be like a visitor. They call prison visitors because some of the I'm sure it's the same in the states well but some of the some of the kids that nobody will ever visit them when you can volunteer to be a visitor showing now and she was saying that for one of them she'd been in and he was eighteen inch did she got a card birthday. If they call you have to go through the whole process of Gadabursi card and doing it and also we proved and all this kind of stuff to get to do it and she said when they sang happy birthday to it was it was the first time he'd ever had birthdays onto yeah well different. Isn't it different yeah different different places we think about running and snow. It's no wonder it can be an amazing experience especially responsible for it's is not just about the Ramsey responsible their responsibility at all but of course one of them was saying this may think we about people run around prisons. WHO's river of course it's more what they're doing is they're? They're achieving stuff. Some of them are volunteer twenty five clubs some of their ten t shirt because their kids in one one of them said to me see that bloke over there he said I used to hate him. I used to is to have really bad thought about wanting to really horrible things and then we started running together and now we got lapped about seventeen times and everytime anybody went by they they'd all say well done well done whether it was the person lapping or the person being let well down go on such and such an shot and it was just as cameraderie of it was it was incredible and I'm sure it's different in new youth estate but it was just overwhelmingly moving how how importer and it's not about partner and it's not about the run its but how so important is for for these these these kids and they are kids to for the first time in their life have something that have somebody say well done to them and be able to do something that somebody can say well. Don't you about and do something through the end of the day thing I did that. I tell you what those people Mazda in the show there it puts it puts all the garbage around around. God knows what marathon he puts it all into perspective doesn't it it puts it all into perspective well it does when when and you were in Dubai Anyway Mush run together we go well done us. Well done us get back to reality. Eh Yeah often too good runs this week. I will although I'm going to. I'm going to challenge your runs. Well you say here six small tempo yeah right and it was about forty one minutes yet and you said on your new kind of sound strommen that yet selfie saturated instagram with thirteen posts or thirteen weeks. You said something like wasted or something by they don't hear no way six miles in four minutes. I sound again. You can love in that. We're now you'll see if you see a tough 'cause boss. That's yelling sandbagging. You've gone from one minute using my my track record on that 'cause I very very rarely Alioune running about seventy five times okay and I very rarely get under forty one minutes. I've think I've been under forty minutes once once twice and yeah it's a tough little run at I thought I could get under thought can have ago chat close to forty minutes arc again with an again for just been faced with the same self on throbbing. You live on your back talk strategy ruins. We go six five point nine eight miles isn't he while I see though I see what you've done I understand it now because you've actually tried to progression runs what you've tried to seven eight hundred sixty six minute faster. It was the first mile uphill. Is he smarter. Yes it'll be but the second miles malls downhill then and you've only got six forty six. I'm trying to be a big shoddy pacing those what happened at the end you like like speed all over the place WCHS Wisconsin they can't do so still ran for like forty minutes. Got You want something forty fifty. I reckon you could do better after all. Thanks reckon one minute drive a mile UA absolute hero like it's like yes put on the line for it detonated. Everybody loves comic backlit you sandbagging. You've got four hundred sixty eight psychological care four hundred ninety nine episodes or not surpasses run for a while if if you if you care to study the stats that we're getting all this good stuff we just said park run and now we're just beauty just obliterating me over a few seconds. I did also dude but you've run quicker there for eight miles. Now you have five six forty five per month from boils. It's completely different you get away with sandbagging Samba could cog for feet of climbing elevation two hundred two hundred eighty eighty two feet. It's a little bit yes. Oh yes thanks very much. I tried to eight mile royal flush on the flat and didn't get that Roy either because I blew it wrong. Model three just went thirty seconds to quick and then but that's the thing when you are trying to do those a gradual progression runs acceleration ones. It's actually probably miles kind of the middle ones isn't it's an eight mile. It's the three four five so so you'll always going to be one two and three yeah if you've left yourself room. You always going to do six seventy but it's three four and five where if you buy off a bit more than you can chew. You're not is gone. Mike got six twenty three six twenty six six thousand six six twenty six twenty three from five six eighteen while six and then you obviously hanging Komo seven and six twenty one third mile it was seven four six thirty six seven thirty six seven twelve six thirty six seven twelve to six thirty six blew. It was a buffet yet all about the control and there's still a good run. They're may even shake getting there getting back into it so I've gone eleven point four miles since comet. That's quite good. There isn't it for years. You've been on a non run streak much against my will every time I go out. He stood enjoying them running. I am actually yeah. I don't feel an urge to run my daddy more on that later probably but for my dad and the and the team Hema work we've got Thursday running club that we all got to run on a Thursday. I think they're going to strong arm me into going out with them on Thursday good and that's why like that like I look Louis also come up to that. What I'm you add happily go for flatlined a pastry? It's the company DOM Kino pastry will run. Do I have to do the relic. We'd just the Pastry Tom on. Let's just go for Pai. Tell you speaking of pastries on our world sleeping. I slept outside Econo- love this well. We all for you then. You're in the doghouse key egg. Hey everyone I'm sleeping under the stars. You know what you done D- Who was it. That is one of those hey turn your Sofa into a sofa bed by forgetting your wife's birthday what he's he's one of the most brilliant and I went for the pedal board up. Did you actually took a big bag and that was in a Ed Boyle and pedal that the pedaled pedal to see actually found that it will beach when boyle do you know one of those is now down with with Bagwell's cloud of your where do I start to canapes the pace. It was great loved it so so last canoes to canoes over they were stand that potables I set aside last night's. That's great my will deign my brother-in-law Jamie good grief. Yeah we'll outside lovely. You play volleyball. I've seen in top gun talk new top guns coming star. Wait a car you see it's going to be including vessel yeah. What was the name was happy to Val kilmer seriously downhill googling right always competition of May we're going to we're going to be off to the Eden project to run and to spend some time with with the folks from five talents and you could come completely for free a little bit more right now right? What are you doing on the weekend of the eleventh the thirteenth of October later this year because there's a fantastic opportunity to come along on a free running weekend we can at the Eden project with the charity five talent five talents to amazing work in Ken Kenya Tanzania and the Uganda helping establish microfinance and saving communities and new businesses with fascinating variety of different people Bernard wrote? It is a Kenyan runner. I think he's won. Marathons in Dublin. Belfast has to ten P._B.. Gordon Seabright the of the Eden project is off along with marathon. Talk and five talents are offering you the chance to come along for free length thirty October wig and we spending some time looking around <hes> the Eden Project. We're going to participate in the the Eden Project Marathon or half marathon on Sunday two nights accommodation included <hes> there's new golly party the opportunity to run Ron with with Bernard and ask some questions. I think we might dabble in some pastor as well as a fantastic opportunity to come along have a great time over the weekend completely for free. My favorite thing about it is that Gordon is going to give a private after hours tool of Eden the Eden project by Jones and that's great so you get to go along and you get a tour of Eden projects by arms from the Eden Project C._E._O.. The day before the marathon there's more information sean about what you need to do if you'd like to go into the draw at five talents dot Org Dot U._k.. A forward slash even five talents or dot U._k.. Forward Slash Eden all the terms and conditions are on their one of the main things is that by coming along with that. You're not paying anything. The charity five talents are looking looking for people to come along that can raising vital and important funds for the work they do across Africa okay. That's about punk five talents in the U._k.. Forward Slash Eden get yourself registered and see if he went right. We are on instagram. We've recently upped our Graham activity activity pop along to instagram dot com forward slash marathon talk and act the wonderful Angie Andrews does a much better job than Komo myself <hes> <hes> and a big thank you told listeners of pop song the patron and pledge their support for the show. If you like what we do and would like support the show become a patron then please. He's check out this episode show notes for the link top Patriot page right. We are nearly at excuse me you're picking me up earlier in the show you like gase tonight between leaking with methods of air war between sentences. I'm necking not and it's yeah. It's all gone down the right way. We're nearly a thousand kids around the world photos. I think this is nine hundred ninety. I couldn't remember that at five on so this might be nine eight five. I think it's not ninety it Kinda Nice. Wouldn't it two thousand within the next week so we get ten more over five hundred shows pretty amazing because they all go to a Lotta Fun on and we're GONNA continue after episode five hundred bucks they're gonna go to the Graham only just be mostly because it actually takes quite a bit of work across the reply to the emails and getting the photos out at the photos and put them in the show notes and put them on facebook and Yada Yada Yada so we're we're actually better is news actually better easier here to use the Hashtag kiss around the world and you will talk through it and then you can see the pictures lot easier without going old school and emailing them in. It's like sending sending we send it posted. What was it called if you could send a second class envelope stamped addressed several dress themselves selfie envelope to infants yeah anyway come on? It's about this week. Lymph real two lovely runs in New York. He says before disaster struck after nearly forty years of running plantar fasciitis decided it was time to add itself to my list of injuries. Oh well he says back to square one but there is an American Talk Twenty six point two leisure t in the Midem New York why actually love about this picture and I'm really sorry Liam about all of this is the woman in his backpack yeah. It's everything yeah exactly everything that's going on in the background. It's so good because as a women in his backpack as a boy kind of like looking like he's trying to we car wing mirror the guy walking along with a beer about a ton of stuff going on in the background. There's like half a bike. Can you see that bottom of is that how you know. It's just fantastic so yes so really everything is way more interesting than you fill Jeffrey now this one one is baffling in terms of pose. Please find attached a recent photo taken overlooking the Beach Santa Teresa in Costa Rica the beaches here. You're pretty amazing and further inland. There are plenty of micro adventures to be had including Whitewater Rafting Zip lining through the cloud forest temperature which remains in the low thirties which I think he says he's only womanish on the Liam scale. It is enough to make even the shortest run feel like card work now. What Phil has managed to absolutely nail is the Stele Catalog race? This is a very very good Khattak. The downfield is very good blue steel faces perfect straight at the camera foot pointing at the camera yeah legoff perfectly short shorts little bit of danger the hot. It's all there yes but what you do media left thumb as exactly as to say. It's really the whole picture. You've just got to think through the PHILANTHROPIES. I you realize realize the length like you have to go to you to be a proper top model. The thumb just destroys the image it does it does this is kind of long hanging thumb which is distracting my from the over the fact yeah absolutely perfect Angie Andrews juice here. She is our own Social Media Queen Statement. She says I truly think the submission to get around. The world. Has Everything taken on ten mile trot around the gorgeous. derwent reservoir should've been nine win the runway last weekend. They're brilliant run with my husband pool. If there's a box I failed to tick. She See a photo photo of me trusting the hydration process in -Tudents Avenia essentially as essentially thirty degree of June. I should think it's only lukewarm. I love the fact that a simple throwaway comment from you leave thousands of people mocking you and the temperature gauge forever a week of practicing my nutrition and hydration strategy resulting in some larger budgie smugglers. There is look at Bat. He's brilliant yeah we could. We should assemble like a five most agro. Look around on the world submissions 'cause the five of them who they are just brutal and they look at him like he just wouldn't wouldn't mess with him. No we look at yeah. What Scotch actually give him a given? Some Scottish accent come out John Lawrence. I'm sure you don't get many Maratha talk around the world from Troy in New York state now we don't in fact Google. Earth Troy was in New York states as I said so here's my injury sporting the classic black for a run alongside the Hudson River for this is after week running in New York and Rome well done that definitely sunsets lovely t-shirts this week. If you'd like the new trust the process leisure not they've gone down really well. Actually the wonderful Sarah Dodging atavistic says design printed area retails those they are our main t shirt of choice at the moment top along the art of success dot com back yourself one and then why don't you see if you can be the very first <hes> instagram trust the process marathon talk around the world shop. He really interesting facebook Friday. Tom Happily embracing his inner homa and what's your habit. You're happy to embrace Tim Robinson Cheese crackers beer or repeat 'til bedtime cheese and crackers nothing beach teasing crisis lovely. Awfully I'll tell you what we we haven't done. A long lasting was having yoga and peanut butter peanut butter but he insisted on dipping his crackers in it. Oh indeed Roger Cowan. I'm doing the same thing I trained hard my often April and since I finished I've been eating junk food nonstop. Maria Hamilton cyclists habit of stopping midway for coffee and I sit down you see that is an idea that now run and it's something that runners need to do more of I know what you mean but it's harder on around. Isn't it like we used to do that. I wish to about a bike and we used to go out into the Dale and you sit down and have like a flap Jack latter chill out of recycled back but the bounce up and down down on the when you're running isn't so good. Is it as long as you run slowly. It's okay it's your turn. It's my turn Matt Walker for now. I will quite happily eat an an entire pack of chocolate hobnobs in one sitting. I tell myself to- caters runoff. I'm sure it won't ask I'm forty five and still going and Elaine had timely facebook Friday Friday night tips night every Friday fishy fishy Friday in Morlin habit habits Mr White Grad and all associated eighteen friends followed by donuts Hashtag. Ali Rach would be proud pork pies the real reason around here on it's time to write your all you have to do is use the Hashtag great. You're on social media new feature at your own social war will choose affairs read out in the show. Actually that's changing from after episode five hundred. We're moving so we're moving around the world to the Graham. We're moving right. You're run to twitter twitter instagram a little bit long on the character counter people with these rambles on forever so we're doing that on twitter Hashtag great you're on twitter and then what we'll do is we'll record the show we shall search twitter and read out our favorites so first off this week. Peter equil- posted nine ten could start Monday morning into running cluding five by one K sixty second recovery in she's Nice of lost it because I clicked on it three forty two three forty four three forty four three forty three three forty three Nice Peter my fitness backpost injuries as trash tag trust the process sack lost head after months of training raining in feeding crap suddenly with no warning seven pound drops off in the long run fills easy as at math and took say you've got to trust the process Hashtag right year on by the way getting too big for his boots. Now he wants a pound for every time somebody uses trust the process and Sports Underscore Katie another twenty nineteen goal achieved one hundred park run at southsea part one today beach themed fancy dress liquid with sunshine and helping Miss. Angela chicks smash her P._B.. Celebrate -Tory ice cream followed by at good Jim Portsmouth community mission ten out of ten wallop up to our love it speaking of Waller. It's one year one year until the Tokyo Twenty Twenty Olympic Games my word I have to say we just off a slight tangent house and I got really into our climbing so I'm not sure I'm eighteen pastries off see she's climbing but we what we've been watching all the world championship bouldering and climbing on the Tinto Web and they get some views by the way hundreds and hundreds of thousands of views of these really exciting. We can't wait for the climbing yeah. They say that it's a year and you will be your weight we over yeah. The Olympic torch will arrive at the national stadium in Shinjuku marking the beginning of the Tokyo Twenty Twenty Olympic Beijing are going to be great and they are going to be great well. I'm looking forward to actually yeah because a fan of Japan anyway into. I'm really looking forward to it. It's one of those where I haven't been to Japan no night to go massive fan man. I'm like a like a I like it. I like the people that are like books are likely culture and it's one of those places I'd like to go. Amazing must go because it lives up to absolutely amazing eating. We'll I loved it when I was there. When I looked at the Telegraph did a really interesting piece actually on the Olympic torch now the Olympic torch passes through forty seven all forty seven of Japan's pre affected in realize there was this Olympic torch relay deadly before the Olympics comprising thousands of people <hes> that carry the Olympic Torch is one hundred twenty one day procession that will actors symbolic down to the beginning of the Games? Now you look the video that will put a link to on this this year's this week show notes video in the Telegraph. The Guy who designed the Tokyo Twenty Twenty Olympic Torch Back Yoshioka to Chin tells us all about and it's it's you see I until you know video but it's <music> all about the sequeira or the Cherry blossom emblem which of course is so significant in Japanese culture. The secure flower flower is a symbol of of Japan and every March Japanese people wait not just for the happiness that comes with Spring arrival but also the flowers themselves to bloom and so you're Shoka says for me it represents Japanese people coming together. He said in the same way that the Secur- cure blooms across Japan. I wanted design a relay taught that was spread warmth across the country there you go. We'll linked to it one year. Eh One year ago. Did you know Tokyo last hosted the Olympic Games fifty five years ago Syntech ages ago nine hundred sixty four quite iconic eighty. Two Countries competed in athletics that we got the F. So the last time the Olympic Games in Tokyo nineteen sixty four hundred eighty two countries that did athletics no man had broken ten seconds for one hundred meters. The high jump was one with the Straddle member that Nice no frost belief flop no no flopping and this is for the women and the longest women's event was eight year Indonesia's Keeler became the first man to win two Olympic Marathon gold medals in Alberta one the third of his four consecutive discus gold medals now they get what it's going to be amazing I'm looking for. I am really looking forward to it. I think it's going to the web is going to be interesting because actually it could could be very hot could knit discipline the marathon could be impactful. Yes the MARATHA naturally Ashley starts and finishes at the main stadium. We'll time naps because interesting thing at time lapse of the Olympic Marathon route on this week it's the marathon route passes passes a load of landmarks Incheon Yuko including the fund the gate which is guarded by the day it-it's of wind and thunder the Imperial Palace of Japan's as New Emperor Tokyo station Tokyo Tower and the Helm Bashi Bridge now none of these milestones is expected to be decisive as the hill aw that rises steadily from thirty seven K to forty one k. on the course not steep but is relentless it rises thirty meters from five meters to thirty five meters on an otherwise almost flat course that's as the race given the expected hot conditions even a hill like that ah could be problem and that women enough for for a break or something. Isn't it like it's not really hilly the women mini racing at six A._M.. On Sunday the second of August yeah and then the men's marathon will be the last event of the Games at six Diane on the ninth of August yeah. There's a little map of the Tokyo marathon cools. It's going to get off just gone through the entire route and yet it's interesting that hills interesting really illegit but it's it might end up being a bit like the downhill at the end of the Great North Run where it's a point where if you are neck and neck with somebody if you brave enough you might just drop the hammer at the bottom of it. If somebody's already kind of in read you could see them. You could see Elliot coming around the corner getting to the hill. He's got a couple of people with him who are on the Rivet and and he just drops the hammer. The bottom hoping you're outside by the top is what I sounds like. It's one of those big hail in the end yeah eight buster mope on the hill. Eh Foul ran the Great North Run. Do you remember that sprint with Kenneth Akili I do. He messed up to me. We match up 'cause 'cause he held back on the hill. Vakili drop the hammer on the hill. He never saw him again. The ten time gold medalist will global gold medallist Mo Farah. We'll be returning in September to try and win his sixth consecutive win great north one wonderful win <hes> yeah <hes> he is preparing for the Chicago Marathon last year we ran fifty nine twenty six and then he went on to row five eleven even in in Chicago he said is a massive part my preparations. I'm going to be giving it. My best shot emulates for him for trading have very good event then he goes. There is a good hit out. I've always disappointed. The competition isn't deeper like it such a great event of run it a no ten times or something seven times and it's a brilliant event. I actually really liked the course I think I like the kind of slightly technical nature of the course and the fact the lowest point is about mile nine decent climb a two miles of a pill from something like nine to eleven not done it for a few years and you've got the sun drop just just before mile twelve and then you turn left at the bottom hit mouth twelve and then you've got a really fast if you're if you haven't blown up by that point they really fast and if the wind isn't too strong you face last month. A great cause is a great event. I just wish the competition from always deeper. I think if you had you know five six seven people who who <hes> he's level or even for faster <hes> super exciting. I don't think it's since since he got oh beaten by Bikila in that does start with maquilion highly. I'm guessing highly is not going to be there then. I've not find a particularly exciting meeting which is a shouting match win now. <hes> this is in the news this week G._B.. Athlete trainer has been provisionally suspended from participating. Ah In athletics. We've covered Luke's racing on the show pending an investigation by U._K.. Anti doping so train has been suspended because of an anti it's doping violation contrary to the W._f.. ANTI-DOPING RULE PROHIB- presence of a prohibited substance in an athlete's sample now which is a bit vague so very quickly Luke trainer his own statement via twitter in which he not at Lanier fence was related to the use of recreational drugs as a as opposed to an attempt to use performance enhancing announcing drugs that right that's right. I'm just reading the responses to his twitter poster he he I've read it said that's an honest response yet. I think it is I mean it would have come out anyway. I guess tonight I want you being caught. You've been caught avenue. I've Al- I've for a long time. I felt it was wrong. That athletes were tested tested for performance for a long time. I thought it was wrong. We people before what facts fairly pointless but for a long time on my focus pointless testing athletes for recreational drugs I don't agree with the fact an athlete gets a ban for four recreational drug. If there's no performance benefit I can see how some recreational drugs taken in certain ways could give forms benefit. I just don't I just don't agree with an athlete does something silly on a night out. It doesn't impact their athletes in Heart Athletic Senate and in any way at all metabolism what business is a metabolite of cocaine was found in his system. He said in a statement of maiden incredibly stupid uncharacteristic for mistaken for that. I'm deeply sorry I'm sorry to my family. Friends coaches sponsors anybody who support my progress at any stage of my career. I want to make it completely. Clear violation was in no relation to sport or enhancing performance. This happened as a one off in a social situation with drug. It should never have taken look in their responsibilities treasury into the now have been have been largely positive. It's interesting do make mistakes. You know argue. You have to be careful because there is a culture in British sport of throwing the book at Non Brits and Going Brit does it you know people make mistakes and we're not I want to be clear. We're not saying that I if if this is correct that is a recreational drug take on a night out in a social situation situation whether he was Ethiopian Kenyan American anything we would say the same. You know so if you get caught for that it's going to be a positive. It's really stupid thing to do but we all really we all have done stupid things and the punishment doesn't fit the crime I mean he the poor poor that he is going to get battered by load of people he is he. He's GonNa be you know matching if we had some kind kind of tests during your childhood all my childhood or or younger years for things that you know that what he meant to do and and wherever they are going to get sent to your mom means you know it's just the punishment doesn't fit the crime and I'd say that whoever it was it's a Shaw really stupid thing to do. I hope it doesn't get too bad punishment from apart me thinks I'll be learned to me but part of me thinks you shouldn't be tested for any way if you're an athlete. Was it got to do with US right. Get it is time full the list opponents is where you've been running quiet this time of year in gang but he really aggro. I've just got to the bottom of it and the ones that twitter height some people can be really nasty can't really nasty podium. Though is where everybody's not nice people cuddling full of Nice People's eyes will kick us off with immense podium. This week is Jim Vince at the bath festival running five forty nine nine in fifth place beautiful run from the bath university down onto the Kennedy. Even Canal Danny Wells the twilight twilight cycle part marathon and Ilford for fifty forty eight for fourth Mark Potter Sandwich scorcher impressed in Foro wrote to forty six for third back again from the sixth lap. She said Oh goodness. I guess we're going to hear mark again. Roberto Marin the Westlink m seven black damn running festival three fifty one twenty eight four runner up on this week's marathon talk listener podium a nice five degrees start the math and pleasant conditions the race running along the way of the seven motorway the root surprising pleasant and even yet and back course with a nice is twin hill at thirty can't really running down the cycle way of motorway in not sending it to me to be honest but topping this week's math and toured listen podium at the Knicks scorcher impressed and three forty twenty two mark potter things laps around the countryside depressed in with the promise of unlimited ice cream out of entered and just like the N._f.. Finish it to get to finish. I could've done a mark. What was was his name Rob Sloan? I could have gone a bus pretended to finish it and limited ice cream. Mark Sloan does it to win a race a negative just limited. Was it ice cream here. We talk about your garments as you're doing take five miles an hour that we talk about right with no I think unlimited ice cream in the enigma shaken not stirred mouth in Milton kings. We have the one and only entry to the women's podium this week. The wonderfully name Chelsea Rose Wa- cool name that is I do like Nice names Chelsea rose those ran four hours and twenty eight minutes said a marathon of seven laps around Caldecott Lake in Milton Keynes and made a nice change to run in the rain pretty pleased with a two Oh eight I often in slowdown for sneaky sub four thirty round with the company my dad even cooler and the miles ticked by as we chatted happy to tip off marathon about fifty five wall that completed number two hundred eight. I luckily warning outrunning Mollison talk podium a few weeks ago. I was sent a message on twitter by our next guest said she said I'm a marathon and an ultra when I'm doing a p._H._d.. In perception and prevention of Bites recently doc bites by the way recently I keep on hearing of runners being bitten by dogs when running in the advice that follows is often really bad and it certainly wouldn't prevent future bites in quite lightly could harm dog welfare to she didn't have revolutionary piece of Info runners. I can't think of a better platform than the marathon talk podcast to get doug facts and law straight and maybe give out a few tips. I thought what a fascinating interview so welcome to the show. I'm going to take a deep breath Sarah off Charchuk Gosh decker near you figure being kind with spot on and we were just joking because we've already butchered your surname once before when and you WANNA a price for the Westminster Mile as a listener awhile ago perhaps you could say for US properly. It's Sarah of trapped Schenker's. That's around brilliant brilliant. Actually that's from Polish origin. Is that right. Yes it's parish in actually quite difficult even by Polish standards so you shouldn't feel bad having difficulties no good I don't I don't so so let let's let's wish we start so this is particularly interesting to me. A whole raft of reasons grew up with dogs always had dogs since I was young kid a pretty comfortable around them have been been twice quite badly both times once I got bitten in the eye by an Alsatian which wasn't fun when I was about ten and then wasn't really my felt. The second time was my fault when I put my hand through a fence to stroke her via guard dog in Australia and trailer park and hold them a hand for for a while for longer than I would like to have done to personally. I've got lots of experience with dogs I do. I like dogs. Go one at the minute but I do like dogs in my professional work apartment in the running area. We fought from the very early days pulse in here and I another people within part one. We fought to allow dogs to be included in pop. They we don't believe in junior pot one all of our events where dogs committed to participate we allow them and it's great at the same time sitting in the middle of all of that as a C._O._O.. For Part One globally we do see doc bite right and so it's a kind of a controversial interesting challenging situation is now and I'm particularly interested in some of the social stuff I've Read Ed you've written up linked to some of your stuff on medium for example are shown so there's it's a big wind ranging topic. Let's go right back to the beginning. Why are you interested interested in it? Okay so my background is in clinical behavior so I've studied behavior of dogs into volunteered and worked on doug shelters <hes> trying to make life of dogs a bit better and and when I started to speech the I felt that all we really need to do to prevent bites. It's just educate people about a dog's body language because this is the common approach to preventing bites and just generally preventing injuries. We usually think that you know injuries happen because people don't know what they're doing. They're doing something wrong and so so this is how it kind of started and after years yeah speech the <hes> I think that education does play a part but it's only one aspect of the bite prevention and in their there are other approaches to preventing vice which perhaps more effective and I can kind of explain why this is the case I've been put before we go down that route. Tell me why why why dogs important. You know other than you know. If you're a dog I get some people. Will I love dogs. I won't stay part of my dog and run with my dog. Whatever somebody else's dogs and I get that either way but I've seen some stuff you've written really does kind of present the importance of dogs you know in terms of society the and socially if a mental health being what why are they so important yes show so there's this thing in psychology call the pet FACS which which suggests suggests that an by having bad relationships with pets give us all sorts of benefits and ducks has often been described as a kind of social lubricant so people who walk dogs are more likely to start at a conversation of people in the park so they have a role and can of combating loneliness and facilitating social networks interactions and dog owners also tend to walk mall and be more physically active than onus and and if you think Benefits from having dogs in our lives and in the same time and fortunately dogs also bite people and and what we've observed that over the last twenty s doc by the U.. K. Increased by above about ten percent every year which is a huge trees and ended up time the population of ducks into decay has been stable says not really that there are more dogs is just that somebody's in the kind of buy more often or we end dougherty reporting or is that actually it could be partially reporting and these are hospitals statistics so even after controlling for for kind of increase in people going to hospitals by still increasing and and you know kind of annual costed N._H._S. is very difficult to calculate but but it's easily on five to six million pounds and if you think about it too apt to that dogs that bite can often be relinquished to shelters or often even euthanized and if the dog has a bite in the kind of file it may be even hotter to rehome and because can of additional precautions will have to be taken and before rehoming the doctor family so these dogs made and be stuck in shelters for much longer which has really really bad impact on their welfare Alpha and and the longer they're sheltered heart may be to rehome them and so by also don't wealth and and dog bites. What's in the first place it could dump vice in the first place may making reflect parole for of a dog am so dog maybe in pain or it may be anxious or uncomfortable some other reason so it's important to kind of reduce bites also because of dogs and kind of Fed reason why it has the really broad societal implications is if you think about how many people now have their postles delivered in the shopping delivered and how many more people are working in delivery every sector and it probably won't surprise you to know that at least six seven postal workers a bit and every day and that's a shocking number? It's it's terrible notable because actually I'm laughing. There and it's not a funny thing like if my doors if I told my daughter that storage seven she laughed. I'd be like Mosey stop. It's not funny money but there is a and it probably doesn't help your cause. There is a kind of what the word is but it's like. There's a joke about that. Isn't it. The Postman being yeah J. spot the dog. You know which probably doesn't help postmen get taken seriously the axiom and shops I've seen like at bones for dogs called Postman's legs and definitely we know finds postman auto giant something comical something to be expected and perhaps normalized so we all to a dog to kick off and the postman an an and we we're not surprised when postman tell us they have been bitten and but in my during my p._H._d.. I've lack of Royal Mail <hes> and Tom. I've met so many any postman who have finger mutations and and really severe am post traumatic stress disorder as a result of bites and <hes> and I've spoken to quite a few people who no longer go to parks and because they are so fearful of dogs and who afraid visiting family and friends and I'm sure that happens in terms in running putting into running context I am sure there are plenty of people out there. Maybe even listening to this that run outside or won't run in certain places outside because of those fears where they may have been created by by being bitten by dogs or they. They may not have been but I actually again. That's an impact isn't it. I mean I I wouldn't have got ferry number. Places can run and I've been in place for hard liquor encounter with the dog and have not gone back there but I could see how that could actually be stopping people getting outside being active in something people from going outside and being active. I did actually interviewed quite a few people who who said they only can run with gonNA friend who around them when they see a dog or oh who said that they <hes> they only walk around with the children on cemeteries because dogs allowed them and so people and it's not such a small number of the people of people petrified of dogs and they do not benefit from some encounters with dogs as because of the previous experiences and and in the same time you know we can live in very much disney fide world where expectations put on dogs and expectations put on people <hes> such what's that we expect people to love dogs and we expect ducks to be good with people and we expect them to be good with children to accept also of interactions directions and to be friendly and maybe this is not necessarily fed on dogs because while we have changed our expectations of dogs we didn't really change ducks did much if anything we may have <hes> start breeding dogs progressively more for specific looks temperament and and and that could make dogs. Maybe a bit less safe to interact with other other you you mentioned breeding their temperament all there yeah you hear the term and there's no such thing as about dog just about odor and we can talk about that a little bit but are there certain breeds needs that genuinely people should be more worried about than others or or really's almost entirely down to to the upbringing of that dog the environment that Volkswagen so it's been more complex than that and it's not based on the research actually am the Carolina Gay suggested there are some breeds reads which are more likely to address and and because of that some read such as pit bulls and or Doug opens the NATO <hes> and Japanese Sosa abandon the C._k.. You can have them kind of exempt and keep them at home and but by law the bond by default and in the same time there's no evidence to support support this policy and since policy has been introduced loads of dogs have been put to sleep as a result of being typed particular breed and but there is no evidence of this policy reduced number bites you know since it was introduced by increasing every year and looking at kind of epidemiological data on hospital submissions and these breeds not more likely to bite than any other breeds and the king of permitted and when they do by they don't necessarily Sally Bite in any West Way and amrried and obviously if you have a dog which is bigger. It's more likely to cause more damage than a smaller dog and but within the kind of size as range. There's there's no difference to how they bite so so let's let's look at it from a runner on a own perspectives if you're in if you're a non Tom if you let's. Let's dog owners I if you're a dog owner and you want to run with your dog and you want to be social in a in a running you wanna run with your dog or you WanNa you WanNa got for jog along the canal or wherever it might be what what is the advice you would give to those running dog owners for for appropriately managing the wrong word supporting nurturing their dog to minimize minimize. The chances of those things have of battling happening yeah. I think that you have to start my thinking. We'll talk has been designed for owning and by this. I mean there are some breeds of dogs like dogs are very flat faces which literally done have will breathing apparatus and those is so showed that they probably won't be very comfortable running full very zapped because because they've been bred Sarah for a look so that really so they wouldn't have so that that's always the D- a defect in them and their ability to breathe and that's come come about because they're look that way yeah yeah so some read like a French bulldogs English bulldogs and OPEC unease they have very very very short notice. If you look into how long they should be <hes> as much as they also have slightly different <hes> compacted against structure of the larynx so they they kind of look for specific disease and most of them do develop specific disease which means that they cannot snarl the time and and a lot of people think that this is a breed characteristic by is is not as actually indicative of the Stock Having Bury severe health problem which means on brief and given that thing last year or two years ago French French bulldogs became the most popular breed of dogs in the U._k.. If you kind of starts hating it up you can see that this is very and really dangerous and it's not just bad for Doug. Welfare Office of mobile is a small French bulldog. He's not it's not a big dog but if that dogs struggling to breathe and you take him for a run then that she his prompting more likely ready to bite or you know an adverse manner because he's already struggling quite alone and and just jenny can stop thinking about running with the dog started thinking about medications and the dog is in pain. You probably shouldn't be running them in the dog is young. Perhaps small breeze may be younger than in two years younger than you probably should be running with them because and joins US still netflix and forty foams some breeds of dogs and maybe be breathing fine but the kind of spine or advocate of <hes> features have been built. Maybe an exaggerated in such a way that they also may be very prone to injuries. Would you training talk to to run like in the same way. We train a person around five K.. Let's say but yeah you went in. I would not assume can run five gay I will stock to build it up very gradually and and throughout those Eddie runs our try to give the options not to run and so I would probably start by running a little bit and stopping being given dog wants to carry on running and kind of go by Doug Space and try not to an vision for five and I would also be very mindful of Doug's <hes> body language as a Bogo. You can recognize if the dog is being anxious and did environment so love dogs will be a bit fearful around children and and so perhaps if you're running the B dog running across pox when kids go out of school and running impacts which is just full of children may not be the best idea I am dogs may also be fearful of loud noises so running during a storm or just after file season may also make them a bit more on edge Wjr am so if an <unk> insist they would be able to deal with the scary stranger <hes> adapter new yet it may be just like tetris effect so you know it because underlying anxiety that may be too much for them on the day so became aware of the environment and go doc space and in terms of keeping Doug on the lead. I was suggested start by keeping Doug on a long lead so you have some control over dog unless s you can be absolutely certain that you can recall your dog and and unless you can you can always see your dog when you're running a thing that quite often owners may even be able to to call it back to them but when they are on the round walk they will be chatting someone Aso checking their phone and have no idea what the dog is and and so for that reason I'll probably keep it on the long lead note on the extendable lead which is a long loose lead them and also try to look into the Harness Revenue Mukalla Kala again just to kind of make local people wanna dog what what is the what is the position with callers so when I grow up dogs had what we called choke chains which was like a you'll know like a chain with a ring and so you pulled it in tight end and I mean I've not owned a dog for twenty years probably myself so I have no idea what the while the right thing is considered to do now yeah so there are all sorts of <hes> callers and and Thomas is on the market and you he not choke chain as the name suggests to chocolate sound on the best thing and so if you're running a dog and you want to make that running a fun activity not for the dog as well as yourself I would probably avoid am I would definitely avoid choke chains and you can pinch call us and I would also avoid the electric collars i. I don't know if you've heard about them. He's Ave popular colors <hes> right now especially like in the U._S.. Coming to the <hes> this basically a caller which which can <hes> you can get a pilot's remote control in your hand and you can send an electric shock. Oh my word that's by a dog house. Eagle House thought legal well. It's not illegal to Scotland. I think it's legal in the U._K.. And and it di- idea is that you know that way you can get distracted dog. That's running to fall or chasing a D._O.. Something and practice what what could happen very easily is that you don't really know what the dog is seeing when you when you shock the dog doc so dog may be seeing a a child and in this way you ask to say pain and comfort with children and sooner than you now you have a dog that is very aggressive the children and so my suggestion would be to completely avoid scholars up sitting Kacem they do probably increasing variety have dogs make them more dangerous much in the long run and so for running I would suggest running and dog harnesses that are some harnesses designed for running an ideal and but if you if you don't have access to these than just running on on the regular harness would be a great start or flat collar yeah yeah we one of the issues we see part one I see as a partner is outside of my actual job there but is at the beginning of the event will have will have a welcome briefing and often they'll be people with dogs are barking barking and barking and barking and you can't hear the briefing and I can't imagine the dogs having fun and the other people start the other people who haven't got dogged then growing dislike for dogs because this person's annoying everybody else and it's kind of like a lose lose situation in advice for people whose whose dogs are Yuppie appear in those environments. I'm guessing it would help everybody. I'm not. I'm teeing you up here to tell you to say. Why wouldn't you say I'm guessing the advice would be to get moved away from that area so they come down? They don't know any people and then actually you're all in about much better place yeah there will be there will be different essentially the morning up practices about behavior the more likely Carrigan right so if you put a dog in a situation where he's barking at the beginning of Parker because fest Bacher and he was excited about something or dog then on the tenth background he may not be seeing that dog and he may not be that excited but he kind of good use barking it just talking Biden so I would perhaps take the dogs a big feather way and let them kind of calm down what owners can do in those situations. I am perspective of an ONA is really embarrassing because you know you have like hundred sometimes mopey and they're all looking at you because you have did annoying dog. That's really really happy and what could whack would be if the owners could do some work with a dog by trying to get the dog dogs attention at them so they could have to have some treats indicates. It's and at the beginning of this briefing you know they could show a dog a tiny tiny piece of chicken and just keep that attention and his way so that the dog has something else to be preoccupied occupied with an when the briefing is taking place not talking about huge chunks of pub dokes is lychees thing this is have of your fingernail just to keep sheepdogs attention in that moment and because that will come down to dog and come down yourself because he doesn't have an iron dog and templates which doesn't help anybody not like what we want to do is we want all on and I see it a little bit and I've spent half my life as a dog owner and three quarters of my life as as a cyclist and I see cyclists as well well I mean I cycled school to University to work and I see a culture in cycling and I'm about to offend a Lotta People by coaching cycling where people have this of holier than Thou how attitude I'm a cyclist therefore I'm kind of got right of way and I'm going to speed along here and all those kind of things I know. Everybody's like that. All and you see a little bit. We're dog owners sometimes James and again. I'm speaking as a dog half my life where this kind of the word is but this kind of thinking of the moral ground hijacks dog or whatever it is and actually if you don't make an effort to get on with the other people in your community. It doesn't help anybody. The the the the aggression connor raises on on both sides yeah exactly anything about you know how dogs are treated the gravy kind of on a very privileged situation because they can be walked in every single property much of lead and they can be woken tool of bars and pubs and cafes and restaurants a great time they they have a great time if you think about her dogs in managing the U._S. is quite different story right like lead and they can really be walked lead in most public places. DOC shouldn't be walked in the U._k.. On the street but they can be let of lead most box and the U._S. The controls are much stricter. They have to go to the specific w Paul quite often to let you read and there are much fewer boss that he can take a doctor about people being you know upset about his so I think that that dogs aren't privileged position than we should respect it and and kind of make sure that they keep an ending that position behaving and nicely nicely and being managed in quite a nice nice way by by the owners somebody else on running with the dog and it's scorchingly hot now. This might be the hottest. I've ever been doing talk into phone. My God is thirty degrees in North Yorkshire today. What what is you do? You have specific advice for running. I mean dogs aren't great cooling cooling down on their. They're not designed to run for long periods of time in significant heat. I imagine now so actually my advice would be if the weather continues this way. You probably should not take any dogs to buck the began. AM is way to halt you know because of the proportions portions they radiate heat much more slowly than we do so when they overheat they really struggle losing their heat and out of their system they count sweat so they can cool off the only cooling mechanism they have is punting in the little bit sweating through their post but that's not enough in peace conditions and I can send NGO forum which suggests when you can walk a dog the patch kind of the size and breed and temperature but the rule of thumb is that if it's if it's as hot as as it is right now and you should restrict works all dogs to bury arena moaning very late in the evening of pavement if you can't touch pavement even with your hand is trump is definitely hope for a dog to walk on pavements and maybe carry bit of what it would be fun a dog because they will overheat much faster than me too an and when they do overheat you know the consequences for them will be much less than for us because they would. You know so if you if you if you were happened to be running with your dog I I think it makes total sense to me to say when the weather we avoid apartment and we avoid being too prescriptive because we think people have to make their own decisions visions about what they do. I mean for example. We wouldn't ban dogs taking over a certain temperature because it becomes too. Why is that temperature who measures it what wop so complicated really fill the dog owners should take responsibility for for those kind of things when it gets? Let's say somebody gets that wrong. Okay so let's say somebody who goes running with their dog when they shouldn't have done into that just just made a mistake sometimes happens. Doesn't you think oh it's not that hard. Oh it is what's off signs. Would you look for in your dog that your dog is overheating and if you felt like actually my doggies overheating what what would be the first thing you should do to to try and help it and one one of the main science would be doctors being really anxious in distress panting excessively salivating potentially collapsing struggling to breathe having maybe even some <hes> trembling and vice him to humans really you think about the size of overheating by the masons will be salivating ponting doc and not wanting to to walk anymore lapsing laying down and you should go to that immediately and as a matter of urgency he he can provide dog with a cool kyle to lay down and I wouldn't wrap a dog in a in a towel because it makes it more difficult to radiate heat. Allow the dog to lay down on cool towel or even kind of icebox and offered some water and but you have to take a dog to vets man surgeon rather than putting your dog in a hot car and driving to the you'd want to I don't know if there's water. They're put in the shade on Charles and doused with water. Yeah you try to cool it down any way you can but also get it to the vet as yes quick civil yes yeah absolutely so if we move into the non dog owners side of running so if you'll let say you are running in their dogs around in your your anxious about here and I'm sure sure there'll be a lot of people listening to this who have a level of anxiety about dogs anything from a mild diety. Actually you're on your own running through words and there's a you see somebody walking three or four really big dogs and that would make someone like me action. Somebody like actually about that tool that would make someone like me. We anxious all the way through to extreme anxiety where somebody wouldn't even really run outside what advice if you got for non dog owners about running in the presence of dogs laughing. They've your anxiety Israeli and that extreme you probably should check with your G._p.. He and seek professional treatment and for the most extreme and I would suggest that grew to begin with and it's not a don't in any way they want to belittle like I've had to really really bad doc bites in my time. I don't want to belittle at the same time you it it. I don't want to call it an irrational fear because it's not totally rational but actually it's it's. It's something that is worth trying to get around anxiety so that you can run your local park or the woods because it's not as bad probably as you think it as you think it is yeah. Definitely I me you know looking into anxiety in general we know that there are tools for managing it and it's not any different with dogs do the kind of trigger anxiety maybe more specific but in terms of managing it it will be quite quite similar and if it's very severe response and it probably helped to start with a quick chapter G._p.. And maybe having some psychological therapy it helps you to identify and and find some <hes> management techniques. I'm guessing you would say actually you really really unlikely to get bitten by a dog. If you go out running in a park where there are dogs or woods where they're all dogs. It's it's. It's it's not likely to happen. Is it well fence when you go what do we. What do we not want around? Tell me maybe like you know fairly <hes> Perleberg will think to happen Iran Regular Sheila basis which is frequented by dog owners. Can we talk us through that then because 'cause what how would people understand. How would you make a judgment view if I'm saying Oh no where to run now because you're telling me that if I run in certain box I'm GonNa get savaged well you can't you can't really make this judgment? In this part of the problem. Would you can do is <hes> when you see a dog which is was he is behaving in a way this dangerous Douglas Bokke Angle. Oh pacing and the dog owner tells you oh he's fine. He's friendly. Do not just the Doug on. That's actually something that comes out from our research a you know pretty much all by bite victims said owner was present and onus added refined and I can explain why I think this is the case <hes> but don ready go by the by the suggestion of the owner and just give the dog enough space and to walk around him and if a dog is on the elite and leave quite fabric of space and US should kind of tra- vent those interactions for the sake of protecting the dog <hes> thanks bye if basically if a dog is showing those behaviors Dave is just avoid it as much as you can because it may happen at some point and other finding from our researchers said most bide victims fought that it wouldn't happen to them. There's this perception that people who are bitten by dogs thing that bites happened to ask people people who are not good with dogs Yup Yup people who are at doing something wrong to the dog and people who have dogs that are dangerous and that is not the case bites can happen to anyone one regardless of your kind of experience lot folks e can be bitten and so so believing that you are not addressed. Paradoxically puts the address because that was me the second time I got in really badly by a buyer line I was in Australia and they were guarding a a like a camper van place and it was closed that we can and we're bringing back and I've always grown up around dogs. 'cause I'm not really nervous around dogs. We're not nervous. Dogs and this rottweiler came up to the fence and looked really friendly so I kind of put my hand towards it and it was really really friendly. Sup Hand stupidly put behind through the fans as soon as Muhammad's three defense that was it he was latched onto my hand and actually it was really stupid of me. It was quite bad by actually still got a scar on my finger but it was it was really stupid of me. I did speak to the owners not to complain because I know I shouldn't have dumped them hand to it but actually I didn't have kids Sam back. She that's the thing that my four year old moved left on and that that could have been really serious for everybody you know for the dog for the owner from from my four year old all those kind of things yeah well exactly so my suggestion is that any dog can bite the the way the easiest way to think about Doug Bites is not something that particular breeds of dogs do. It's not something that only dogs of bad people do of audio people who were dangerous irresponsible onus is not really these dogs. It's like any dog combined because thought bites is very very context specific behavior so in your case you were encroaching docs territory so the dog might have been super friendly but because of that particular context reacted in the way when we're running where some repent of promote dogs chasing us and trying to play with us because we're moving is the movement and that can generate a response adult <hes> so it you running and you see a dog which looks a bit if any con avoided my suggestion would be to start walking walking walking. You are quite likely to stop the doctrine chasing year and you just don't look as exciting as woken. He do as Iran ah you said it not me so if let's say you're in that situation you come round track and there's a dog there and it's being a little bit aggressive aggressive. Let's say you go to a walk other. Things you should do around things like eye contact or or body language. Should you just keep walking and not not make eye contact attack. Should you stop. Should you turn around yeah so then this quack. He thinks that you can be doing <hes>. The idea is that <hes> you should try to look as relaxed as possible ago that others if you're wearing nothing difficult l. c. naturally and that is not to stand it up but again when you're like worried about the then you don't want to look try to look as inoffensive as possible which means maybe tried to approach the from side of it in head on and if a dog doc is coming to you and he looks anxious so his ears <hes> m maybe pulled back and he's kind of crowd with a Kahlo done falls Dr County but maybe just crouched down yourselves and the dog. Can you know approach you and do not do over the dog and that one thing that we have actually shown that can electricity divide and do not try to shoot a dog away save you start making very vigorous gestures with your hands and legs than Madonna's owner youngsters then he now thinks that he really goes every reason to be cautious and so he may attack you if a dog is playful but maybe a bit boisterous than you looking like loads of fun so he's going to be boisterous. Back and Love Bites happen in the context of play so just by looking with a bit <hes> just being relaxed and not being vigorous in your movements. You should be an arcane most situations and if a dog doesn't eat come fo- at a start attacking and you the best advice is to to become a tree so put pool your hands closer to your body here and to prevent radio fingers and <hes> <hes> and try to do whatever you cannot follow on the ground fast because when you fall on the ground the dog can more easily attack Yo you face your neck. Try to stay upward as much as possible and and if you do fall on the ground then try to be a turtle so protect breath Texaco face and protection neck and and and then yet and shout for how ready and you see a fight. It's really difficult to provide any advice on that because it's such a rapid interaction so if vitality will he can do when you're ended moment there is so much adrenaline it's hard to kind of implement this advice and but what we know is that if a dog attack someone on am really realize kind of position to attack even stops attacking your best in the moment that they have a chance they may want to kind of re attach attach themselves lesson so if you are <hes> someone who sees that situation you might try to finally do something to separate adopt because the moment that the dog doc is able to re attack again in the unlikely to do it. Should you do if you get bitten so we you know it's interesting because when I was I was thinking about this conversation we were going to have actually I sent you a picture of my friend who's attractively in America. She just being bitten quite badly by dog and it's something that's extremely really rare in the life of a runner probably will not probably maybe strong I've done have you got any figures on how what percentage of runners of have been awesome by dog. I don't have anything this sensitive run as book and I can tell you that in like if anything about the motive interactions of of people revolves around the particularly in areas where there's a lot of dogs and you're on every day how when you encounter yes just the sheer number of expelled just by the sheer exposure to dogs it chances I the charter which read the chances are that you your friend is at some point going to be bitten. May possibly what should you do in that like I think two things one in terms of the the medical care for for full that injury so should you got spent or whatever it might be and also to in terms of you know you mentioned earlier being criminal offense and when my hand through the fence and got bitten I see that kind of is my fault I don't I don't want the dog to suffer because I put my arm the home through a fence when he was doke was guarding something at the same time you want to do the right thing. You don't want that job to then go on and buy a child so so let's go with the medical stuff I got big. Buy On your hand. Whatever it is definitely GonNa get infected and was coming? I HAVEN'T ADVICE SHEIKH WE'VE PRODUCED IN CRANSTON in consultation with older. Hey Hospital and look. Please send it to you notes. If if you're listening to this check math talk show notes we'll put a link to that just talk us through it briefly briefly then our principal and if Biden's deface all your hand and on I think what we call in the in the briefing underpins area accessible language you should go to the hospital and if you know the skin with bump did you should go to the office so because Doug Bikes can be infected very very quickly and they often affected and it is quite likely that you will need you have this wound cleaned and not necessarily stitch by many team you probably receive antibiotics and and this is <hes> this is quite important if you will in place and a should have kind of judge by how bad the Bible's you know if it's just a scratch. You probably don't have to hospital. If it's more than scratch you should probably go to walk in Psychiatry G. P. M. and that you may be started to buy hi. It's again <hes> so that's in terms of like medical <hes> in the U._K.. That's very different to other places right where we don't have rabies here. I spent lot my childhood in Africa where there was rabies and I was I was in my by now. Sation was in Zimbabwe when I got nothing we were confident didn't have rabies a family dog but but that people running maybe on holiday. That's I mean that's a whole `nother level isn't it of the issue of you bitten the country wherever A._B._C.'s not eradicated. You probably should seek some you know anti-rabies street in say the way in the U._k.. Okay well. You know we don't have the moment but we do have more and more dogs being imported quite often <hes> not entirely right papers to the U._K.. And so hopefully we won't have rabies again yes but things cross runs out there. So what about the legal side of it so site so I just get one because I often hear people who am getting some stuff quite confused. People think that if <hes> if police is involved in investigating dog bites likes this necessarily means a duck will be particip- <hes> actually this happens very very frequently while the police might do is to <hes> to ask the governor to Princeton is not welcome dog next to schools and all about walking a dog when when this children Apac Yup and and Doug will be put to sleep owning united united last resort because most of the police officers lack in duck sections of and they don't want that outcome for dogs it they can work with the owner they will not might prevent someone someone reporting and talk by would would me. I didn't necessarily sure if rose your be furious because you emotion as a parent but if bites it's me you much less likely if you're worried you don't put down. I just wanted to be controlled yeah exactly but sometimes it may <unk> have to be you know sometimes advice about control has to come from the police officers to be and like you said you may be fine but the dog may go out again and bite again child and then the consequences will be much worse so the the legal situation is such a dog bites on a criminal offense in the guy and they should be reported voted to local police. Most of the ambigous police forces will have a dog section and and most of its. I'm what will happen. Is there someone from the Dok Section will visit the dog owner and we'll have a chat about what happened and you know they would check how to doug is manage. 'em If <hes> if Doug on often some support board with understanding of an anxious dog a poorly treated dog neglected dog exactly so they will often go and <unk> am and tried to see what was kind of needed and go from there admit it's only for my xperience laces anyone when it is really cleared Ed the dog owner has extremely dangerous dog in this mother doing anything to reduce the chances of the dog attacking someone that the police he's will push for a destruction order but in cases where the dog bites child in the park. I don't WanNa know audible for all cases but from my experience is quite unlikely that the the side on euthanasia indicates yet but dog should be reported because a <unk> accurate data sound how many goodbyes happening and also because it may be important for the dog owners realized that the dog is posing a risk and to take actions since last thing all with kids. We got two young kids. We encourage them to to not ought to be scared of dogs into like dogs like I say I grew up with them. Every any advice. This is non running thing really or they'll often runs and events you you might be with your kids around other dogs and we always say to arcades and never never a dog without speaking to the owner I you told me we can't trust the bonus. What should we do? I think that and I wouldn't trust the owner when when you think that the dog is behaving plate and the dog owner tells he oh he's fine and that situation go with your gut feeling yes and so for instance when you're entering someone's property and the dog is barking and growling the doug owner says commended Doug is fine. I would say like no. Please put the dog away <hes> but if you ask Doug on David's fine for your child interact with with the dog underdog the Doug necessitates from our experience the Doug on his usually will make make the right judgment as I am not always the most of this they will because particularly if they want to protect children from being bits if a dog which is not guided will usually say actually don't <hes> so yeah definitely asking you know they're going to commission making sure that the duck and see a child quite often show now will come out of the blue from the dog thing in helping them and making sure the duck and physically physically see the child approaching. I would also make sure that the child is being constantly supervised when interacting with the dog so by this I mean literally watching child and perhaps helping them to interact with a dog in a nice way so making sure to the child is not hugging a dog and that the child's face is never inveighs of the dog and that the child is not like tapping docs head from above basically everything that everything that I day to to their parents they can't do any of that too so they you know they may be scratching dug under the neck onto the neck on <music> advice to make sure that they're not being too loud and vigor around dogs and you'll be my advice and at home as hello is really hard to convince parents to allow children to always supervise children dogs because life happens in this ause <unk> children around up all the time but we do not most children are bitten by dogs that they know often by their family dogs or dogs belong to the neighbors of France granny so so it's not the strangest of your children dogs the the best so my advice would be if you have baby gates into house and Yukon separate <unk> <unk> supervise children and dogs to keep them separated and throughout the day and in the air kind of from set on the right or maybe even older they can manage the situation but better leave them together but until then I would just try to want to interact to supervise taxes Catholic like you say context specific I think was the term used very early onto you can have a great dog with great owner and you can be a great. You might not be doing anthony long but sometimes just the context of that situation means it ends up with a Bite Sarah. I'm conscious of capture for ages and ages. He's agents. We've we've gone on. It's been really interesting before I ask me as a math thoughtlessness be wrong for me not to ask you imagine our question but before we go onto imagine mark no question and marathon runner potter an ultra marathoner prize winner on earth until so excited about your magic mile but is there anything else awesome we'll put links to we'll put links to all of your information on the show and people can go along there and and read up more and they can find you on on twitter switchable. Put Link to your twitter handle. Save meeting out your surname again on the show notes. Is there anything else you specifically wanted to get across yeah. I think that just two more planes I want to make 'em really based on what we know. At the moment the best way to prevent dog bites is to can select dogs properly by this. I mean if you're getting a puppy. Make sure did you see parents and the N.. B. Shoulder the parents kind of relaxed and don't show any signs of aggression because we know that the aggression is not necessarily specific breed but it has a very strong genetic component so if both parents had aggressive nervous the chances of your own in aggressive is much higher so so make sure that you get a dog from reputable breeder edgy can see the parents of the dog. There's also something gopi contract which you should read before getting a dog and because <hes> because it kind of shows what you should check before getting back and how verify the Rita is reputable reputable and what to do in the first few months of the puppies live to make sure that it is common relaxes possible and and and on the e can also get talk from a dog shelter and again I would advise <hes> to get dogs from reputable shelters rather than country or all social media because in those shout shelters take the dogs won't be <unk>. Check for the temperament and matched with your 'em live situation with your house and so him and <hes> to make sure that you can handle the dog and he will also be provided with after can support and if things are going wrong you'll beginning what advice and and not of <unk> are aggression having genetic component. We often talk about that. A dog is as good as the owner. It is true that the place a very very important part in socializing dogs making sure that from very early on they used to runners and cows and other things that will happen later on in life life but not every own as being given the same dock of cot so sam dogs some owners may really nothing and have an amazing dog which completely bomb proof and around Rana's children and Alva- dogs and whatnot ever owners may actually have skills but they have a dog which has temperamentally incredibly anxious so that dog in one take much for the doctor bite someone really so I would also kind of everyone everyone <unk>. Stop necessarily blaming the odor what are bite yet. They are responsible for managing the that that dog but by making taking them <hes> you know scapegoats and by making a few already blamed we not necessarily helping the situation is that dog owner should not feel basil seeking help 'em and by blaming them and thinking there is just botanist who have bob dogs. We perhaps make this health seeking behavior more difficult. Yeah we want to recognize that they have anxious dogs. We want them to say my dog is anxious. Please do not threaten we won't that Doug owner to seek a good behaviors Eddie on and they feel already stigmatized for having a bad dog. They may not do it. Yes yes so so actually my statement earlier. I'm not saying it was my position but that there's no such thing as bad dogs ipad owners that actually not helpful. That's unhelpful last the kind of the comedy postmen having his finger in also unhelpful yeah yeah it's I mean it's very kind of natural thing to say because the in I if you think about how those statements are going to impact people's behaviors says and seeking help and can stigma and it may be detrimentally so that's been fascinating will. I'm sure Shaw people can interact with you on social media at S. A. R. A. G. R. S. T. E. C. K. A. at Sarah Augusta BECA sorts of terrible pronunciations Lincoln show notes. We'll put we'll put the stuff to your for your hand outs in your information on the show notes so when you have your H._d.. See You you'll have a p._H._d.. In what will you be doctor of and I think it'll be a doctor at analogy okay with this specializing in the behavior bureau of public health and animal behavior fantastic so come on magic mile six months of perfect training to run around a track for well one mile as fast as you possibly can what gene you could do very hard. I think the last thing I rented without any training. I did something the six thirty okay. This is six months perfect eating yeah I would say oh my word fantastic okay. Let's actual screw that puts you with Ultra Suzy Chan Tim Cruz drew physio to the stars Oh Marshall Thompson and professor Tim note so that's a pretty good. That's a pretty good group. Just ahead of Sophie Ray Worth he said five fifty and just behind Tony Auditory who said five forty two off fantastic five forty five it is listen. Thanks so much for giving us your time on the hottest Thursday afternoon I've ever known in your of Your Shit. <hes> I'll tell you about cooling dog stab. I it's cool down now but thank you so much time it was it was really interesting and hopefully it will help people listening to the show if they're gangs Artie about dogs or if they they WANNA have a dog or they want to go running with their dog or anything like that so thank you so much. Thank you for having me on the show right up to looking from sisters boys and I've got a raise as planned my sister's boys and your boys two sets of twins double-trouble are all we ask. Let's have hate is if you analysts or just you know man this year the number around five hundred foot into the after Arabia Ruby around as well yes will they will get on five of them. No no no not to the Great North Run September the eight eight. You'll do yet even in hard but you jogging around without Gopro as you now. You're an influence GOPRO <hes> smugglers. I'm doing in Windsor Half Marathon. Why why are you doing these when well? I'm doing the Great North Run as work. Okay I'm looking forward to it did win the half marathon with a friend he had a run round with them. Sleep outside at the end to tune in the park to get them to do the project probably the half marathon on thirteenth October's. That's three ice three races of got plan in September Windsor. That's awesome great north run half marathon. You could work me tomorrow man. He has just arrive big. Bri has just arrived this afternoon so easy for eight days. It's GonNa come into work like work. Experience Kid can come into this his conduct coming Brian Ya here. Bring You bring Your Dad Friday awesome yeah Brian Bringing Brian every I love Scott Pringle priority more interesting than you. They'll all be really interested in talking to him. I'm going to bring him out. I think if he's poised kit which you probably ask Mr Comrades comrades now midland tattooed around going just tattoo that I'll be going to the gym I might table with Iran might do apartment of the weekend next week. Where we speak it will be episode five two hundred wow we have been doing episode four hundred just end with the launch pad these events that you are running in the next four weeks this weekend Saturday <hes>