Big Business and Bailouts

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

Welcomes the Big Business? Isn't bailouts edition of sleep money or guide to the business and finance news of the week and yet it's been another one of those weeks and it's only been a few days since Wednesday when we lost. Okay you but there's a lot to catch up on I'm Felix Salmond axios. I'm here with breaking views. I'm here with Emily Package. Huffpost hello and we even have a special guest. We have the CEO of BCG so many letters in Rich lesser is GonNa talk to us because he is a management consultant who talks to big business the whole time. So we're GONNA ask him about what on earth big business is thinking about going through right now. We're going to talk about the Fed and the exactly what it's doing in terms of trying to get the economy moving. We're GONNA talk about Amazon. And what they need to do to keep their workers safe because that will be a good example for the rest of us when every other business gets up and running again and we'll even have a slate plus segment on equal because we haven't had one of those new while. It's a mildly gloomy show. I mean it's a mildly gloomy time but I you'll like it. It's all coming up on slate money. This episode of slate money is brought to you by the relentless a new podcast from slate studios and century twenty one real estate hosted by Dr Clinical Psychology Julianna. She talks to leaders about the qualities that set them in how they approach success. And how honestly? They managed to get through the setbacks that all of us are experiencing right. Now you'll hear about what these people have learned from their triumphs how they've grown from rejection and how they continue to evolve even now listen and subscribe to the relentless today. Wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is brought to you by progressive. What would you do with an extra eight hundred dollars? Buy a plane ticket paid on your student. Loan treat yourself to those shoes. You've always been eyeing with progressive. You could find out drivers who switch and save save an average of seven hundred ninety six dollars on car insurance get your posts online at progressive dot com and see how much you could be saving national average annual car insurance savings by new customer survey who save with progressive in two thousand eighteen. So rich yes introduce yourself and tell us what you've been up to for the past couple of weeks. I'm rich less what I'm CEO BC G. Boston Consulting Group Basiji operates in fifty countries around the world is one of the leading management consulting firms looking across all industries public sector out huge range of topics and the news of the week. Is that your clients. The BIG BUSINESSES IN AMERICA. Four hundred and fifty four billion dollars of the stimulus bill is allocated basically to them. And then that's being leveraged up to something on the order of four trillion dollars by the Fed and we're GonNa talk a little bit about how that leverage works. But can you give us an indication of just? How much money is four trillion dollars? And where's IT? GonNa go and what's IT GONNA do? Tell you if you stack them on top of each other. How many how our planet it can reap I mean I did. I did a little bit of back of the envelope. I was like if you take the median wage. In America forty dollars would pay fifty million workers for like over a year and a half like it. Seems like an astonishing amount of money so the four trillion so I my understanding and again. I don't profess in any way to be an expert on the bill but but my understanding is that money is going to help business as well as to help state and local governments and the four trillion as I understand it is that It's actually about a little over. It's four hundred billion but because that's an equity infusion into treasury. The Fed can lend on top of this. So it's the power of being able to leverage that equity into A higher volume of loans and no one knows exactly how that volume is but the estimates we've seen as well fall into the three to four trillion dollar range. I think right. Now we've got a host of organizations that are facing massive costs and extraordinary losses and the risk of of going out of business or being in bankruptcy and by the way that includes I think state and local municipalities as well as many businesses if you think about some of the Sectors of the economy starting with travel and tourism. But but certainly going far beyond that Take away all the revenue for a very high percentage of it and leave the vast majority of the cost and even well capitalized. Well run Businesses. Don't last very long. And so the challenge is first and foremost help people get help and to support the potentially you know ten million plus unemployed that we're likely to see out of this And second to make sure that we have an economy to return to and frankly the group I worry the most about our small businesses And I'm so pleased that so much of the effort in that package was geared towards smaller businesses No one knows now. If that's enough as I can tell you no one can tell you but at least a lot scared. 'cause they're just facing massive but we need to keep businesses going to and loans should help and and hopefully they'll be able to be around Once we come out the other end of this so just to be very a broad brush about this the the general idea. Correct me if I'm wrong is the if I'm a big business and I'm losing money right now. I'm losing money in much. I'm losing money in April losing money in. May I can just go along to my bank or special purpose vehicle. Somehow I can borrow whatever those losses are could be one hundred million dollars or whatever and then that will cover the losses and then I don't need to pay that I get to pay that back very low interest rate over many many years and I couldn't afford to do that because my fundamental business is strong and so long as there's enough liquidity of you know these special purpose vehicles that are set up in the in the stimulus active sending out these trillions of dollars that should basically that should be fine for business right well except that those losses are real losses and those loans are we alone and it will pay probably a substantial amount of time for these industries to recover and probably some businesses within various sectors of the economy. Won't make it. I think we will still just as we did. In two thousand nine. We will see that. In some cases this leads the consolidation in some cases leads to restructuring in some cases. This leads to really healthy vibrant businesses. As you say it was a sharp drop but once the drop is passed they can reemerge strong and they can be on a path to recovery. my understanding. Is that a lot of this? Is now the treasury to figure out the rules that the big debate and who are the recipients and a lot of the debate that held up the legislation was the degree of transparency around the choices that are made with a fairly high level of transparency being in the final legislative session? And and but I don't think I think in a high level what you described is probably the overall direction but my understanding. Is there still a tunnel to work through? Everybody's been has been running this legislation. You would normally think would be crowded over many months or years at this volume with this complexity. It's been crafted over days. We can bet they haven't had a lot of time to the mechanics of exactly how this is going to play out in the weeks and months ahead and I guess one thing I'm kind of wondering too is even if we are able to kind of put the economy in this medically induced coma for a period of time and then kind of waking up again. It seems like behavior is going to change. It just seems like people are not only are they probably not gonna be buying much but they just might not be spending as much even if they have money coming in like. I'm just curious the effect that can have also on trying to get that economy working again right so I think neither core long-term questions that while we were in the midst of a crisis of shutting places down which by the way still going on in parts of the country and figuring out this legislation have not gotten much attention but are going to rapidly. Get much more attention. The first is your point. Which is how will consumers and other businesses in the B. Two B. World? Adjust their behaviors as this moves along and even when we're officially through it. What behaviors will be different from? We see today I will. They few vacations. How will they? Discretionary purchases how businesses you capital investment than investing to build capacity. That's one the more immediate question. However is how will we sustainably fighting the curve because as you put the medically induced coma when we are at risk of an acceleration that could kill hundreds of thousands or millions of people and completely overwhelmed healthcare system. You do whatever you can to try to arrest that curve. And the whatever you can in our case is socially distancing but we're probably at least a year away from a vaccine and a number of months away from any effective treatments that are proven unscaled and in that world. The big nearer term question is how will we flattened the curb in a way that sustainable for the economy so that we can get some sort of rebound even into the trajectory. We were on back in January and February. I think that's a huge question that businesses and governments are only beginning to wrestle it. Suddenly we saw that in Hong Kong right that they really did a great job of bringing the number of new cases down. But then the minute. They started relaxing of social distancing and some of the really hard core You know come flattening attempts that they were doing the number of cases started going straight back up again so it's not clear you know. I think there's a lot of and a lot of expectation that you might see. Sort of rebound in the economy in the third quarter or fourth quarter is not clear. How you how you can have that rebound with also keeping the number of new cases under control exactly and if you think about it and Hong Kong's a great Australian. There are two kinds of problems from a health standpoint. At least that will need to navigate through. One is if you don't bring the virus levels all the way down to zero and you start to restart the economy where in your local environment. You have small number of cases. Can you put the disciplines into keep that number low to spot issues early with more aggressive testing to use quarantining to use AI and digital tracking and all the technologies that are out there but not scaled yet in the US not even deployed in some cases to try to keep it low and manageable even as you we start the economy a non zero caseload then the second point is the one you refer to suppose yet to zero and I opened back up? My issue is not just my own community. It's all the influx into my community and Hong. Kong's Nice because it's kind of separate or much of the rest of the world and you know you fly in or you come in from mainland China which has done a good job so far of controlling more recently but the US if every community is on its own curve you open up this city or this stake. It's not just in that state it's inputs from other parts of the country that are on different cards and we have no history of doing what China did really segment of Hubei Province and to make that work. So you're exactly right to say that the challenges that we're going to be facing in the months ahead about we starting the economy and still keeping a sustainably flat and curved that will keep the level of infection within the capacity of the healthcare system to manage until we have a vaccine. These are huge unknown challenges. Where there's a ton of work that's going to be required rich? What are you telling businesses now to do to manage through this you know? What do you tell a relatively small business that has no customers right now? What are you advising them to do? Get a big loan. Lay off workers. It seems to me that part of the reason the government spending so much money on these companies so that they continue to employ people. Salat cheaper for us to have businesses employing and paying people than it is for us to just directly pay every worker in the country so keeping that in mind. What are you telling leaders now? What what is B. G.'s? Kind of advice. Show a couple things I is. I mean if you just backtrack and we're talking about backtracking like a month or maybe in some parts of the world two months not ten months. The first steps were about Reacting to the situation in terms of near-term first and foremost protecting workers and customers and second protecting core of the business model and that was the initial focus and there was huge focus on people and near-term actions to protect supply chains and other things. Now I think for many companies. It's somewhere between survival and you know just getting along for some industries. It's literally just about how to survive. Which has both an element of how to restructure the the PNL passed as possible at a time on revenues have dropped by huge double digit percentages. And what to do in terms of expenses and how to do it in a way that recognizes. There's a real chance of a rebound so it's not just. It isn't society's interest to keep those workers employed it is also in businesses interested. Keep relaxing you. Train the workforce you've got a high-performing business a shock as happened. The last thing you WanNa do is break the bond of trust you have with your employees and potentially lose employees. That are critical. So it's it's hard on both of Societal Dimension and the business dimension and the balance sheet challenges partly hopefully address through this legislation and legislative and other parts of the world will help to allow these companies to maintain a viable balance sheet to be able to get through this. The third element is the rebound element. And I would say there are a number of businesses but only in the last week or two. It's going so past. That are starting to turn their attention to what will I do to be able to come out of this strong? Actually if you look at China. That's a better example. Because they're like six weeks eight weeks ahead of us you know leading company started saying what do I need to do in terms of how I engage with customers more online behavior? How do I need to change by product and service offerings? I do I think about distribution models and other things and and actually a number of them have been quite forward thinking to retool their models to be able to not just to navigate the crisis period but to be able to come out strong in all honesty. I would say most businesses here are only at the early stages about we've been in shutdown mode and most parts of the country not in restart mode but I think over the next couple of months if I think what our clients are talking about. Now that's the big thing and then if you take the public sector part of our equation because we do a lot of public sector work to the two big topics have been. How do we just navigate the healthcare system crisis? We're facing whether it's with p. p. e. ventilators you know navigating you know how to keep people safe and how do we start the journey to think about what it will take to restart which you know? The president talks about you know the very short period of time I think most other leaders feel like that's very aggressive very very aggressive but but whether it's dot week or some number of weeks later at some point you know governments are going to be based all around the country With not just when? And where do I restart but how do I restart in a safely for my community? Rich thank you. This has been a super informative. Thanks for coming on sleep money and I as a New Yorker. I just want to say anything you can do for New York state and getting the government to take some of that fortunately and move it to Andrew Cuomo. We appreciate that. Well I'm a New Yorker to and I think about it every day and I think we really all feel for I mean unfortunately New York is is where it's hitting now but if you look at some of the other parts of the country they may be ten days behind New York. But I'm I think it's hard to look up doing tremendous concern at the challenges facing I think we all have responsibility from our own business and point to do whatever we can to support these communities whether it's helping them get supplies or helping them navigate through each have different capabilities to bring but it's on all of us to get through this crisis together. So thank you was a pleasure to be with you very much. It's a trying time. That challenges all of our basic assumptions. However one thing that brings us all together is our common humanity now more than ever teams must come together and work together to solve big challenges and Trello is here to help trello part of Atlassian collaborative sweet as an APP with an easy to understand visual format plus tons of features that make working with your team functional and just plain fun teams of all shapes and sizes in companies like Google fender and even costco all use Trello to collaborate and get work done with Trello. 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Bill and then fortunately in dollars of fed money where basically and this is this is the magic of loans is that because loans needs to be paid back you can leverage multiply and the Treasury puts four hundred billion dollars into this sort of bucket and then the Fed talks up the bucket with another three and a half trillion dollars of of money that just invents from nowhere and then all of that money goes out in the form of loans to businesses who then pay it back and then the Fed doesn't lose any money and it's all kind of weirdly magical and this is this is how capitalism works like this is fractional reserve banking best. Say Yeah very similar. I mean when we think of how a lot of money is created normally in the US system. I mean you have the Federal Reserve that creates like the monetary base and then of course they set rules for banks in terms of how much money is created. But you know if your bank you're if you're if someone comes in and you give them a loan you are essentially creating money you know and this is very similar to what we're seeing happen now that the Fed has this amount of money that the Treasury is given it and it's not as though we can only lend that amount of money it can basically keep lending out that same amount of money over and over again and so it's into creating all of these loans. It's creating all of this additional money in the system now eventually when that money is paid back in theory then that would come out of the system but the but the payback period is is GonNa be. What twenty is something? Enormous exactly and the Fed doesn't care because like the Fed. I mean it is actually a very profitable institution but it's not. The purpose of the Fed is not to make money and so the Fed is like yeah. We'll have that money out there in the form of loans and there are any actual losses on the loans than treasury will eat those losses. The Fed doesn't either. This is the Fed is doing risk free lending of trillions and trillions of dollars into the economy which seems amazing and that kind of makes me. Why do that like all the time just normally because that would that would not be good? Because if you're thinking about it right now you know. The the Fed is essentially going to be lending money to many investment a great companies and also potentially even small businesses here. But if you think about it so like if a lot of money is going to the people at the top and some of the best companies out the top then that means amount of money that a private investor would get to lend to them is going to be less because the risk is now going to be less because you have the Fed in the market so in not only the risk on that bigger company going to be less but the risk on all of the companies that are kind of down the line. The smaller riskier companies. You're also GONNA get less money for lending to them and something brilliant. Everyone gets to borrow for to you know now. It's not because for another reasons one. It's an like it's fine right now I am not criticising what the Fed is doing right now. This is a crisis but long term you want the market to allocate capital to the businesses. That can survive. You don't just want this kind of flow of money coming in so then you're not pricing risk which means investors are gonNA take horrible risks. You're not getting money to the place where it can be used the most effectively and also I mean we have the ability to do this right now because the United States is in a very unique position but if all of a sudden we started functioning very very differently in terms of how our Central Bank works. We would not be in that position anymore. We would be a very different type of economy and that is not how our economy works. Normally we are not going to talk about the platinum trillion dollar coins coins. Play once but we I think we we. I would like to just ask you one more question about the finances of big business and bailouts and stuff. There was a article in the Washington Post which we will put in the show notes Basically saying there's absolutely no point in bailing out the airlines because go buster. Hold time if you look at the history of airlines. This is all they do is they. Go Bust in. Remember who said if you WANNA make a million dollars? Just start with a billion dollars and stuff and airline and what happens when airlines go best. Is THEY CONSOLIDATE? They go through bankruptcy but ultimately as far as the routes being flied and the you know the pilots and the employees all seemed just continue with the same brands and the keep on getting their paychecks and the passengers keep on flying from A to B. And you know a bunch of shareholders become a bunch of bondholders become shareholders and this financial engineering and his death nece equity but is there any particular reason why having the airlines go to you know? Fifteenth BANKRUPTCY BOWS OF BANK ELLEN. Bankruptcies would be a bad thing right now. Yeah I mean I would probably argue that. Airlines are a really really significant part of the economy. Because not just because they're getting people that is still significant in terms of moving people but they're also moving goods. It is just now. You're not wrong that you could of course continued to operate while going through bankruptcy. But that's not seamless and to me over. Isn't that basically what we did? With the auto industry and the financial crisis it continued to operate while going through bankruptcy and seem to work quite well. It did although I would again though argue that it was definitely not seem less and and it would also mean that the airlines would have to make some very difficult choices. And I'm not saying that they perhaps shouldn't have to make some of those difficult choices. I just don't know if they should be doing those in a crisis. I think what probably makes the most sense is to get the airline industry through this but two then afterwards say okay in the same way that financial crisis taught us that the banks are too big to fail. We cannot allow them to kind of go under so that means there have to be more regulations around them. I think that this is the same with the airlines. I'm not saying we have to go back to like way back in the day with how we regulate airlines but I do think that right now. It is reasonable if we understand that every time there is a crisis the airlines are probably GonNa meet. Help that then. It's also possible that when this particular industry the government could have a little bit more. Say in what they do and you know. I don't always say that. But in this instance I will say that. I do think that we are seeing a very interesting lesson right now. In terms of how governments really do learn from previous crises. And what we're seeing in Korea and Hong Kong and Singapore in places like that is there reacting incredibly swiftly and effectively to cove it precisely because they went through size they went through the you know h one n one and MS and they know the playbook and and they can just basically fingers and make it happen and they Equipped to deal with this kind of crisis and I think that one of the little silver linings that we're seeing in this crisis is there is no banking crisis. We went through the financial crisis in two thousand eight. Two thousand nine we were like the banks are way too levered. We need to do something about that. We need to make sure they're much better capitalized. We did and they up as a capitalist and now we don't need to worry about. The bank says the one part of the economy. We don't need to worry about it. Worked now and in fact they have so much capital. Hey it's an emergency go and Linda capital grades. I think you're right. I mean granted. I think if this went on forever without any federal aid the banks could be in trouble at some point. But you're totally right. I mean clearly what we did work and I feel like that's important to say over and over again because once this is all over I give it a year or two. The banks are going to be complaining that they have to hold so much capital so I do feel like you can say wait a second. You know remember two years ago so I'm not saying there's anything good about this. Obviously there's nothing good about what's going on but you are correct. This definitely did teach us that lesson. I feel like that's the one. Bright spot is the banks are okay and that. Jerome Powell seems to be willing to do whatever he needs to do to keep capital flowing and it was reassuring to see him on the Today. Show on off everyone washed. It was like the first time the Fed chair has been on the today. Show I think Savannah Guthrie said in like forty years or something and he. He did a good job talking like a normal person to in the human language like for example he said very simply like the Fed can lend out ten dollars if it just has a dollar of backstop treasury. Which for me was like a lightbulb moment. I was like oh I get it. This is how they do the they make four hundred billion into whatever trillion dollars ten to one. Okay fine got it. Thanks Jerome And he was very smart and reassuring and the contrast to. What's been going on this past week or so with getting this third stimulus package passed was pretty striking. Because even though I think it's like a two trillion dollar bill and will provide all this money for loans too big and small businesses and has beefed up unemployment insurance and has payments going out to a lot of families households. It's still not enough. It's still not that good and they're still all this ridiculous squabbling over it like at some point. The bill was held up because a few conservative senators were worried. The unemployment benefits would incentivize people to work. Which is kind of literally what we're doing right now. We're telling people not to work. And actually they need to be incentivized not to work It's been really striking to me. Just how well the Fed works and how well all of that is kind of figured out in solving this crisis while at the same time there is this building Crisis for everyone else like the jobs numbers this week were terrifying you. All obviously saw the chart of unim- bone unemployment I I wish chart initial claims with the The the vertical line to shooting up like infinitely into the sky because it was three point. Three million clams. I put a call out on twitter. Like have you been laid off and I've never gotten such a big responses because the sample is so big there are so many people now without jobs and I feel like while you know pals doing everything he can like. He can't help all those people without jobs and even set on the today show. You know like I'm doing all I can but we really need congress to kind of kick it into gear and I still feel like the problem in the. Us Isn't just that we have an experienced a pandemic. It's just that like none of our our our government the foundations and values that these people hold do not jibe with what needs to be done and what needs to be done a pretty simple you stop the economy you give everyone money and you contain the virus like it's actually pretty simple like just give everyone the money. That's that's the thing which I was most gratified about if that's the right word in intensive Powell interview was that he was absolutely unambiguous. That the thing that you need to do to get the economy moving again and to help the economy is stop. The virus stand in he. He was our timetable. There's going to be set by the virus and when the virus when new infections go down to zero. When is our then we can start talking about like starting economy but we need to wait and do that fest. It's so great to hear that in plain language from someone like him when you know you're hearing something very different from Donald Trump and you'll see an I keep seeing these people doing opinion polls saying what's more important saving lives or restarting the economy. It's like it's the same thing away you received. The economy is by saving lives. I feel embarrassed for our country for having that debate at all even a little bit. It's like trump is is actually his own. He is a one man virus that's infected the public discourse and is like keeping us from solving the actual crisis of the real virus one last lesson. This is taught us as well maybe to move forward. Is that one. Part of modern monetary theory is that they say that basically. It shouldn't be. You shouldn't use monetary policy to control prices. You should use congress because it's so simple to get congress to just raise taxes or lower taxes. This is also taught as that would be an absolutely horrible idea. Slate money is sponsored this week by door dash which is a delivery service for meals and I can pretty much guarantee that no matter how much you love cooking at some point. You're going to just say I think I don't want to cook right now. And that's where it comes in if you want to treat yourself to meal made by someone else for a change just used all dash to get connected to your favorite restaurants wherever you live. It has over three hundred and forty thousand restaurants in three thousand three hundred cities across not only all fifty states but also Canada. So whatever you fancy you should be able to find it. A DOOR DASH and don't worry about dinner. Let dinner come to you right now. You can get five dollars off your first order fifteen dollars or more when you download the APP and into the Promo Code money. 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And likely your favorite neighborhood. Coffee shop all used trello to collaborate and get work done. Try Trello for free and learn more at TRELLO DOT com. That's T. R. E. L. L. O. DOT COM TRELLO DOT COM. Okay Emily you had a big story this week about Amazon and one of the things that has fascinated me about the way that this crisis has played out. Is the seventy four paged documents that you get from the state of California and the state of New York and stuff like that talking about all of the things that are essential and all of the services that turn out to be essential even under lockdown and you know people going to work to make the chips go into the radios the EMT's use to communicate with each other like the there's absolutely enormous parts of the economy which fall under essential services and supply chains clearly. Part of that Amazon is like the biggest and most visible incarnation of like modern supply chains. And so everyone else in is basically working. Allow right yes. Everyone at Amazon is working full out. The company announced. It's going to hire one hundred thousand more people Everyone's ordering Amazon right now and they're definitely an essential business and service. What I wrote about is given all that the company should be doing everything in its power to keep its workers as safe from this virus as they can and from my conversations with Warehouse workers and drivers Advocate they're not and I think that big businesses so far through this crisis have really shown how I mean. In my opinion that cannot be trusted to keep Americans safe and protected so like for example with Amazon. They're not in all cases telling workers when Someone in the warehouse has tested positive. Cove in nineteen. They don't have the protective equipment right now that everyone needs to save when they're working altogether And that's mostly because there's a shortage countrywide over that but even given that they're not social distancing necessarily and all the facilities Workers are really scared and the way they've set up their leave policy is kind of this distorted thing where they've raised. Pay Two dollars an hour for workers at least through April right to really incentivize people to work and come to work and they're I think they're even giving bonuses as well and then on the flip side there cove. Nineteen leave policy is that you can take unlimited sick-leave but not get paid so it's like thanks so the choices you know. Protect your health and go bankrupt or risk your finances or go into work and risk your health and there's no guarantee when you go in and risk your health that they're really doing as much as they need to do to keep you safe Amazon. Of course says it is. We should say. Jeff bezos wrote a lot. I am I feel like this is a little bit. A Pre cast what we're about where with rich lesser. Which is this conversation that you're having about Amazon right now. And how much can you do? And how much should you do? And what kind of measures can reasonably be taken? Is the exact conversation that pretty much. Every reopening business is going to be having in the next few months and you know people want to go back to work but also people don't want to go back to because the minute you go back to work you open yourself up to a greater number of potential infections and you know it does seem. I think you're absolutely right. The Amazon is in the perfect position to try and work out. What best practices in this kind of thing because everyone is going to have to go through this pretty soon. I think that's right. I mean I think that obviously no no company at least especially the United States has ever had to deal with anything quite like this and doesn't really as pretty much making everything up on the fly but for those companies like Amazon that as an enormous company and be. We're now very much. Seeing is also a vital part of our economy in many ways is going to have to figure out how to make this work. Not only for this crisis. But I just can't imagine that once this is over every single company is GonNa have to show how in the next crisis they will be able to keep their workers safe right and I mean these companies. I did a similar story about Walmart. Workers also going through a lot of the same things with just as bad of a paid sick leave policy. These companies should should have been doing better on this all along like you speak to these Walmart. Walmart has publicized. We give sick leave but when you speak to the workers. They're like Oh. Yeah earns eight hours of sick leave like it's it's meaningless stuff And it's not like we have a massive public health crisis all the time to deal with in this country but like there have been studies after studies that show les places that have paid sick leave have lower rates of of flu like these companies have never done enough to keep their workers safe and now this is coming home to roost. And policymakers still aren't like getting it either. And it's just like this rolling crisis of irresponsibility that as I see it before we get into this episode. We have a big favor to ask one of our advertise. His is conducting a survey. And we would be very grateful for your help with answering. If you're if that questions it will take less than ten minutes of your time and your participation helps her show so go to sleep study dot com to complete the short survey. Now thank you. Let's have a numbers round Emily Watson number five dollars my numbers five dollars That is what Insta- cart workers want per order for hazard pay now. We talked about Amazon markers but insecure workers are also the true heroes of the cove nineteen economy bringing groceries to all of us people holed up in our houses So on Friday Some insecure workers threatened to basically go on strike starting Monday. If they don't have their demands met by the company and their demands are five dollars per order hazard pay and Ten percent like to have the minimum tips at at ten percent instead of whatever it is now five percent And then some other protections while they are our nation's heroes delivering our milk and eggs to our doorsteps and I really need my insta- cart to keep flowing here up in Westchester. So this is my plea to Insta- cart to just meet the demands of these people and Just keep going like. They're making a lot of money right now. They're one of the few companies making tons of money. Right and support has never had business like this before. I would never have used instagram before. Maybe I would use it again but please like just give the workers what they want in start please. We need our milk and eggs here in Westchester. My is twenty four. Which is the number of days that elapsed between much three and much twenty-seven see that's that's how sophisticated. I am much twenty. Seven is the day that Boris Johnson announced. He had tested positive. For Corona Virus March. Three is the day that both Johnson came out on a press conference and said quote. I can tell you that I am shaking hands. I was at a hospital the other night. I think there were actually a few corona patients and I shook hands with everybody so twenty four days to from shaking hands with Greta virus patients to. I can't believe I've tested positive. I was hoping you would. All of the world leaders are GONNA have the current virus. But I mean it's kind of impressive. Britain has is managed to infect the actual head of state as well as the technical has got Prince Charles and Boris Johnson. Both have covert. Now you WANNA wish Boris Johnson. Good Health I'm not wishing him poor health or anything but like sometimes Karma's beautiful thing. Can I say that is that okay? It's true I can. I can see a little image of Harvey Weinstein going for your head. Right now. I mean not Harvey Weinstein but anyone who is out there telling an entire population that it's totally fine to shake hands with people with virus like life comes at you fast so my number. My number is one point. Three billion people. So that's the biggest shutdown that we have in the world right now which is an India. And Yeah I mean. I feel like we think it's rough here but like you know if you're thinking about a country like India where you have lots of parts of the country where you have people living very very close quarter you have a lot of migrant workers so you're telling everyone to go home and kind of close themselves off which is essentially almost impossible for a lot of people you also have such a large informal part of the economy. That isn't going to be really having any way to access basic necessities. Now I will say the Indian government is giving money and they're giving food so I don't want to say that they're not but like we think things are bad here like other and I'm not trying to downplay how bad things but they're worse than a lot of other places India. I mean not to find the point on it. It doesn't have everyone doing like Zoom Kohl's getting cut. Yeah like it's the fear is that they're gonNA have a hard time stopping it. I mean sarin reading a book on the Spanish flu but this the Spanish flu it was something like almost twenty million people in India were killed. I mean it was an enormous number that I mean the estimates are kind of all over the place but still you know and and the fear is that it's going to be very hard to contain it if it starts spread. I mean it's true. India is probably the most terrifying country. I mean 'cause you ably what goes India also go to Pakistan and Bangladesh and he has the subcontinent if it starts tearing through. India has very little in the Doobie on what it's doing already trying to look down the entire country and if that doesn't I have no idea what else they could do. It's absolutely terrifying. I think that's it for us this week. thanks to rich lesser as well as to ski and just mean. Molly and Emily Beck and all you guys listening. Do keep the emails coming slate money at slate dot com and we will talk to you next week on sleep money.

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