The Tim McKernan Show Ep. 246 John Costello
Yes yes welcome in to another edition of the mckernan show on the inside asked he'll podcast network. I am your host Timothy Michael Kernan and our guest today presented by by Mark Hanna of the Evergreen Wealth Strategies Fine folks there at Evergreen S._T. L. Dot Com is former Cardinal John Kostelic now. I'm sure some some of you going. I think I remember John. CASTELLO had about three years with the cardinals interesting guess election but I did. I wouldn't have expected affected pop up on the PODCAST. Now I remember John Kostelic because when you're in your ten eleven twelve thirteen fourteen fifteen basement I think baseball eastern Saint Louis is Saint Louis in. It's never more important than at that. That time like whatever team is really good. When you're around ten to twelve you will remember as the best team the rest of your life baseball all cards and everything gangster. Pete you're right <HES> and so I think about the eighty five cardinals eighty seven cardinals and I'm Mike Gaba two thousand thirteen cardinals couldn't hold a candle and I have no idea idea. I just know that time at that time. It seemed like a bigger deal so I remember John. I know a lot of the podcasters were not even born <hes> during the eighties he's but that's my favorite. I Love Cardinal Baseball in the eighties the base running so I go to cardinal fantasy camp <hes> this year in participate in and I'm not sure I'm going to do it in two thousand twenty I hope to but I'm not sure I'll be <hes> in Jupiter at that time bunch of things up in the air determining that but either way I got have to do this year and I was told brought a videography great nick gale and I was told you can shoot everything and <hes> we love the promotion that's great but you cannot shoot the morning meetings and I go what I don't even know what the morning meetings are and they said it's just where the manager of the team mm-hmm of former cardinals. I think the reten teams <hes> stand up each morning in Kinda. Give an assessment of their team and <hes> their thoughts and <hes> the morning meetings. I think the best part of camp and you're wise at so great and I would say it's like a roast for lack of a better term. It's like a roast now. John John Costello was one of the Managers Ozzie. Smith was a manager <hes>. Ted Simmons was a manager <hes>. I don't know if Isringhausen was a manager of Maat was in there but he wasn't a manager. Alan Bennett was my manager. <hes> I'm trying to think Bruce Sudan Whitey a hers. Ogg were involved kind of his Mike Commissioner so to speak although I guess Scott Perry the former cardinals commission recording was so anyway my point is this <hes> the morning meetings for quality and of course I cannot <hes> reveal what goes on specifically but it's great entertainment and cost hello who I didn't realize was from New York <hes> gets up there and he's just you know I mean it's his classic but with the New York dialect which you are about here <hes> <hes> combined with the roast element of the morning meeting it <hes> it's it's perfect it's perfectly sorta reminded me of Jeffrey Ross the roast master general if you ever watch any of those comedy central roasts and the and so I'm like I and I think I talked about on the radio and I got back from the thing and I said I gotta get John Castell. Tell on the podcast so we have been email about it for a few months <hes> in addition to talking about that <hes> his experience playing for the cardinals plan for white right here is like playing with Ozzie Smith <hes> and <hes> and and baseball in the eighties and in in the nineteen nineties which is when he pitched <hes> and then also now <hes> getting his his perspective <hes> but it's just in this is this is a guy. This is a guy like Avalon <hes> on a on a regular basis because it's just it's it's. We're talking baseball. We're talking baseball on a bit of a different way kind of kind of I think more how when when people are together bullshitting about baseball the ball they're bullshitting more John Castelo <hes> fashion of it so <hes> John Costello the former cardinal reliever and should be noted champion manager editor of fantasy the fantasy camp this year our guest presented by Mark Hanna Evergreen Wealth Strategies. We are in the home loan expert. Dot Com Studios Ryan Kelly the home loan expert Dot Com. com makes this podcast possible with his sponsorship of our studios. He is online at the home loan expert. Dot Com if you're looking to buy a home if you're looking to capitalize on the real estate market getting interest rates being low and refinance. Ryan Kelly is your person to go to he's online at the home loan expert Dot Com. He has been a supporter of this podcast since the beginning and we bring you interviews every week Pat Maroon last week John Kostenko this week he's presented by Mark Hanna of Evergreen Wealth Strategies Ladies and gentlemen here. He is the former card nor lever John Costello John. Thanks so much for coming in to the the magic that is this podcast APP through now you pause there. I felt pal. I felt like that was like kind of like you know what. Why am I here. You're thinking yourself. Why am I here. Why why did I agree to do this or you said the word magic as trying to figure out how you come up with that was very self-indulgent adding up some way <hes> I ah I knew he was a kid growing up watching the cardinals play but I became a bigger fan when I participated in the fantasy camp this past year and I I felt like you you put on a clinic not necessarily man managing. Although you did lead your team to the championship I should. I should note that in advance I did. Is that your first championship. Yes as a matter of fact lost the last three years in a row before this year in the championship game yes so I called up marv Levy and asked him. How can I prevent from losing four championships in a row and <hes> he gave me some advice. I can't share it. Anybody burden on a sheriff that ended up you guys got it done but it was the morning meetings and for those not familiar with this before every day we take the field each manager will come up there and kind of give a state of the union so to speak we kind a evaluate the players <hes> activities from the day before and constructive criticism and that's about all. I can elaborate right. That's right. I was told I could video anything but I was told the morning meeting is the sacred cow and there is an Omerta regarding what goes on in the morning meeting does not go outside the room. Yes means yes but that's where your star me. I can hook them up with your multiple phones. God <hes> so but but that's what I was like. I said I said if you <hes> the cardinal one. I said John Castello instant offense. You have the The New York dialect sorta reminded me of Jeffrey Ross the roast master general on Roast. That's what you reminded me of when you were standing up there talking talking and observing some of the maybe weaknesses of some of the members of your astor little Dennis Leary at Little Bill Burr Nice that's even better I think bill burr bill burs my favorite comedian so is okay so then that makes sense because there's kind of that pacing and then you grew up in the Bronx Bronx New York and <hes> falls New York City firemen. He moved us out to Long Island <hes> about the age of eight so I assume Yankees Fan believe or not mets fan. Will you just like a contrarian. Just just I start my father grew up five blocks from Yankee Stadium and for some reason became a dodgers fan I think he'd like the underdog so he started rooting for the dodgers as a kid in the forties forties and fifties and <hes> when the dodgers and the giants left for <hes>. The coast back in the late fifties <hes> he became met famine. It came into existence and believe it or not the mets colors are the burnt orange from the <hes> giants and the that's a mets callers glad fan because of that. I didn't know the history of it so you learn something now. This has become an educational podcast vocabulary and I'll teach you the team's uniforms and their colors so you're growing up and you're playing ball in New York but moved to long island long around and <hes> it was fortunate that my next door neighbor was the head of the literally in Oceanside Long Island so I ended up joining little league since I got there. The rest is history but I always curious when I talked to guys who play sports professionally like what level you're at when you were a kit. Were you like in another world and it was really clear that you were something or were you somebody who didn't really get it going until like your junior high school. I think God blessed me with a good right arm and the rest I had to work at. I didn't get blessed with a ninety five mile an hour fastball so I had to work at it and <hes> <hes> just make the most of what you have. It's like anything out air products. They don't work the same the same barber but I've wavy hair just kept waving goodbye but yeah you just whatever ability you have. You know it doesn't take any talent to hustle so I always tried out hustle people and out. No I guess not the Pete Rose Hustle but you know just try harder and the coaches took notice of that over time now you just develop your own style and take it to the next level so you're probably also not just a really good pitcher. You're probably a really good position player that that usually goes hand in hand as a pretty good shortstop <hes> not much of a hitter and <hes> I mean hit three twenty in college but I think it to fifty five and <unk> highschool. Usually you go down when you go up but then I've got the big leagues and bad. I mean let me see if I can for twelve aww I think is zero point zero zero you didn't. They don't even have the hitting staff here we go we do. They never stopped the game for that. I hidden over seven punch outs. I don't have to look it up. You know it. I know seven of actually they have. You listed with nine strikeouts. I don't then you might want to call my friends on three and eighty eight five in eighty nine and then somebody got you all these years of therapy and is just starting to get over it and I I used Omerta and the strike outs that so you're playing in high school. Were you like one of the best pitchers in the New York area that <hes> I'm not in the New York area. Maybe in my high school in the Big Leagues. I was always that guy that I I was good but I he's never that like blue chip right. So were you playing with guys playing against guys. Black guys sick yeah. I played against vile and high school. Oh wow school cool. He's good. He's actually a hell of a hill hitter back then too so he's he's a stud. John Mars remember that name but yeah it was on the car he's on the cardinals yes and he he played for men from high school which is also school out in. Long Island so listen good ballplayers on Long Island. Could you tell with those guys that they had something that the rest of the roster didn't have. I always thought John Morris was gonNA make it and I also thought Frank Villa GonNa make it so that I think he's going to be a pitcher position. You know what John Morris. I thought it was gonNA make it as a pitcher. That's pitchy was back then but he made as a position player and is now filler and <hes> Frank Viola obviously made it as a pitcher yeah but he could hit cy young award winner shut the cardinals down in <hes> in the eighty seven world series so as things progress you go to college where to go to college. I went to college at Mercy Hearst College in Erie Pennsylvania and you're playing ball there. Yes shortstop in in the snow in snow. Excuse me the College World Series Team Teams. Come for Mercy Hurst area. Don't see that too often. Although now they have a heck of a program do they put it on the map and now they're taking it from that you put it on the map and now that you've won a championship happy chip fantasy camp. I would have to think they might be interested in bringing you on to well you know they try to bring me back. In a few major league teams contacted me to manage you might go right <hes> yeah but I've turned them down and I'm going to stay with Bug Dynasty Down Yup Dynasty that comes from timberline fisheries as a plug homeless. Amos plug for Todd Goodman <hes> Todd Goodman owns timberline fisheries and we've been together eight or nine years now and we weren't so good the first several years but let some great drafts. We've we've done some good drafting and recruiting and maybe bribing a few players can play but now over the over the years we've accumulated did a pretty good group of guys and <hes> actually great group of guys and Pretty Good Group of ballplayers. I had no idea how fun that thing was going to be really the morning meetings probably like the highlight that's the best part art but just hanging out with people and how great the Cardinal Alumni to hang out with the campers the thing that stood out to me from a baseball standpoint that was super eye opening opening like Ryan Franklin was on my team in Ryan Franklin would have gotten at bat in a major league game he probably would have either been told by Larussa Fini don't swing and then if he he did swing it probably would have been three pitches and that would wrap it up and it would look a little embarrassing and then Ryan Franklin is on our team and he is raking a- and it just like Dave Veres God bless him. Oh we are facing campers. I know guys who in our minds is. Fans are like well they can't Edworthy crap and then they go out to the big league level. You're you're correct. I mean my my hitting prowess as example that nine shots in twelve at bats and all these years. I thought it was but anyway we all get hit in high school. In College. I never was much of a hitter stated earlier but I could always throw and I could feel but we we were all good athletes back. When we were younger. No the Major League pitchers you see now struggling at the plate where studs in high school and college but then you don't so you don't hit in the Minor Leagues H. and I'll explain the whole minor league system basically there's prospects and then there's suspects and I was as a suspect or as I would also be known as a roster filler trying to help the prospects get to the big leagues. That's how the minor league system really works out really works but if you put up enough numbers and keep doing well and busting your tail over time somebody will take notice and if you get that break you can actually make it to the big leagues and do something and you did <hes> you did in eight with the cardinals now as far as drafting goes to the cardinals drafty. Were you drafted by somebody. At the by the Saint Louis Cardinals and nineteen eighty eighty three all right they had just won the world series and eighty two so I figured they wanted to repeat set drafted made that was the reason that was the reason and you get there in eighty eight once again fresh off of a not a world championship but a a penny in eighty seven <hes> correct. Take me back to the moment when you get get the word that you're going to be a big leaguer. I was actually in Syracuse New York. At the time when I got the phone call and Mike Jorgensen was my manager and Aaa Mike Team Lewellen it was Louisville Kentucky back then but we are on the road so we are in Syracuse and he called me into the office to tell me that I was going the major leagues and <hes> as they say going to the show and first phone call was the my mom to tell her that I was called up to the big leagues. Oh man it's pretty neat. Were you you expecting it where you kind of like man. It's overdue. What was your mindset. We know I wasn't expecting it. At all. I was performing while I was pitching while the closer at the time and <hes> I didn't start ars the closer but I started pitching well and and three weeks at eleven saves and when Terry Pendleton pulled a hamstring white. He needed an extra pitcher for for that day deal that he was going on so I was called up to fill the gap those ten days but you stuck around a lot longer than ten days. Yes is Fatima got called up at assign a AAA contract to go back in ten days as well as my major league contract but I told myself I said I'm not going back if I can help it and after ten days I think I'd ten or eleven innings in and I hadn't hadn't given up a run yet so I ended up sticking around so what is the take me back to what that's like. In Eighty eight the difference between what you're experiencing in Syracuse New York and traveling around AAA table and what it's like the major league level and eighty eight well it just went from you know triple as great competition. GIMME wrong and everybody's trying like heck to get at the big league <hes> but all sudden you get to the big leagues and everybody's pulling for each other. I mean Danny Cox was on the disabled list when I got called up and he'd be the first guy to shake your Dan coming off the mound. Whether you had a good outing bad outing it was like more of a team unity thing in the major league level and obviously the fields were in better condition the <hes> conditions the travel had people ask you packing your bags and unpacking them for you and he had meals at at the ballpark that you could actually eat some AAA places you didn't want to eat. They just wanted to go to the hotel neat but <hes> it just everything just gets better yeah and and as far as Bush dating that's the astroturf days at a Siesta turf is in <hes>. I think it's at one level below street level so it really held the heat well as a matter of fact is a famous quote by Casey stangl in the sixty five all star game the headed here Busch Stadium and they asked him what he thought of the new ballpark. I think he was one hundred and thirty five on the turf at that time and he just said well. It holds the heat well. I mean that thing was unreal. A fan was on real like those seek. You couldn't sit down. I can't imagine being on the field as I remember pitching three innings one day thirty five two hundred and forty on the turf and you literally would drenched from sweating out out there that put some towels is buckets amount of Monja in there to help wake you up a little bit but soon as you jog back around now the eighty eight cardinals were coming off like I said a pennant but didn't win the division. That was a match here. What do you remember about these. These teams you're with because he eighty nine cardinals were the Nixon you're part of the eighty nine cardinals and you guys right there like into September and then the cubs went away every ended up going on a six game losing streak and they won six games in a row so in eighty nine and a and I turned it around but that was a rookie and I was just happy to be there. I mean we didn't contend for anything but I was just at the ballpark the other night and they honored the two thousand thousand four team fifteen year in and I'm waiting for them to honor the third-place eighteen. It's overdue. I've been talking talking to Joe. Five for for the last three years so next year. I'm hoping they're going to honor the nineteen ninety team all the team that finished last ditch interested in last place crush so now I'm I'm pushing for that. The the thirtieth anniversary thirtieth anniversary last place Nineteen Ninety Carlos. It was so bad. Why do you quit. I know that what was that day like I know I remember numbers. Fan You guys I think we're in San Francisco San Diego San Diego right in the right state and I was already gone by the way you were already gone serving so I tell people because the team was bad that Whitey quit was because he treated the Montreal right and he couldn't do it without me so he just said I'm now you actually worked in San Diego or San Francisco. You were probably talking talking over over talking French or English and Vince Coleman. I think got tossed from a game get an argument Ed Montague and it was ugly and the next day while he's like I'm done with this thing well. I think the the real reason was <hes> Gussie had passed away before and and why do you want it to keep players like Vince Coleman Terry Pendleton Willie McGee Ozzie Smith obviously the nucleus of that team together and when he saw the writing on the wall that they were going to be split up and he wasn't going to treat the team the way that Gussie had exactly and so he's passionate Ashington cardinals and now dewitt's have done a great job that I growing up watching the car getting drafted by them and playing for them with Anheuser is Bush on them as kind of a neat deal yeah that was losing gase. I think it was a big reason why they ended up and he was really close with him very close to them yeah. Why didn't him good buddy. Uh when you're when you're playing for those teams I mean that's still you still. Have you mentioned that nucleus. What was it like watching having Ozzie Smith on the left side of the infield behind behind you you know having the speed that was in the outfield <hes> the speed in the outfield helped me better or 'cause. I very rarely would get a ground ball smartphone. Tell this story first game in a big not into babies but first game at Shea Stadium Ricky Horton's got a three nothing shutout. It's the seventh inning mcreynolds is up and I've done well against mcreynolds so whitey figures get me in there. Get through the seventh inning and we get to ten daily and Todd well the finished out while after about eight pitches it still wanted to to McDonald's ozzy runs says hey we could use a ground ball as I hit that. It'd be great person second. Nobody out that that'd be a great thing to have so after another few pitches is I try it down down and try and get the double play ball and utilize thirteen time gold glover the next thing I know at balls landing in the left Centerfield bleachers for a three-run homer. The apple is up. The apple is up so is <hes> recordings blood pressure from Washington his three nothing shutout turned into a three game and then <hes> anyway long story short. I ended up trying to pitch out of character basically where I was a fly ball strikeout pitcher. I tried to get a ground ball and not a good idea do you did you look over at the wizard. No and you know Mike Rock asked me. What did he say? Did you and I said nothing. He just said you know he pumping in there and he got some Rosin and I think he knew better but it wasn't a bad idea. At the time I mean I wasn't getting them out with my high fastball trying to again the fly out or strike out and I might not get drowned Baldo. It'd be great but the next day I'm sitting in the bullpen and this guy bugged me for about five innings for a baseball. Fox's kid and it's almost if I can't give you one but if one comes into the bullpen I'll give it to you because commodity my kid's birthday and he had thick New York accent and I'm from New York so even I knew Louis Eh thick anyway. He kept asking me for one fine. I says you can't give you WANNA give everybody comes in in the bullpen he goes. I said I'll give it to you and he goes. That's alright. I'll get later when you go into pitch and he was sitting in the same bleaches where the home run mcreynolds hit off me tonight before landed so it was kind of funny and everybody laughed and I was too funny at the time but anyway kept bugging me and then finally Frontino said hey do we go to the sanitation department and yell at you. You and you're trying to work. He goes you know be quiet but <hes> that's part of baseball. You know which bullpen was the toughest I want to do because they tell me now. I guess it's called Oracle used to be A._T. And T. Park in San Francisco was brutal brutal because I guess the bullpens ride along and that was brutal back in the day two we played at candlestick candlestick with at your Allan Poe but he said the coldest winter we ever found was a summer in Frisco. Well we'd sit in Frisco. It'd be forty degrees out of game time and the fans of not only brutal on you but sometimes throw stuff in and it was just not a good location for bullpen what was Wrigley like in the eighties really wasn't bad <hes> do right against the wall then down the line and the fans ends are very accessible to you so you can hear them to and it's all good natured was a game that Ricky Horton was about to go into and some guy was smashing ketchup and mustard packets on the wall and splattering him out towards him warming up before he went into a game and get out to the mound wide. He's like what are you guys having a barbecue down there ed muster in Castroville over his uniform but that's <hes> Chicago for you. You know I've been the Wrigley clubhouse which hasn't changed that much since when you were pitch I mean it's like a high school locker room. It's it's bad but what were what were the ballpark's like. I'm I'm sure you've been into some of these things. Since then in there like palaces yeah I I just recently in the cardinals Cobb Asan competitive <unk>. It's really nice. It's nice to have <hes> the modern day amenities whatever but we were I think close knit group back then because we'd sit around and talk baseball and after the game would sit around and talk some baseball but it seems like these guys are all into their electronics and they're watching video. I think Tony when was the first one to start watching video back in our day but <hes> I guess is it just more modernized. Whatever John Costello our guest this week presented by Mark Hanna of Evergreen Wealth Strategies. He presents our guests every week. Pat Maroon last week John Costello this week and what do we know about mark. Hanna that <hes> I can get on board with while I can tell you this first off First Class Guy Secondly. He is someone you need. It's Kinda that simple. This isn't like a luxury <hes> purchase this is this is someone you need <hes> and now. I've kind of gotten into it and by that I mean monitor taking tried insoles like managing one of my crappy. Happy draftkings teams <hes> like ooh this month. I want to try to do this with this and you know this and the do this with this money and do and and I wish I was doing this for the the last twenty years. It's so dumb that I wasn't. It's embarrassing <hes> but I wasn't and so I think people think of a financial advisor and they think of a broker going. Oh Yeah you want to put your money in here in the you. 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If they're going to meet up with a AH the fairer sex they'll do it via an APP because they don't want to get caught and happen to have a beer in their hands than somebody takes a picture and post in there under a microscope exam <hes> and <hes> and not that the not as tightly knit as us but even talked to read Sandy's and he said he feels sorry for the ball players of the modern era error or nowadays because they don't go out as a team known as a group than back in his data <unk> suit and tie the go listen to guys like Frank Sinatra Vic Damone playing playing in Manhattan and it did be tight knit group where now they kind of all go different ways and the not as tight but you know it's just the way society what is changed lower. You guys like what were you guys doing. We went out and met not necessarily as a team but we went out in groups. Be a group of four four or five. s going to dinner together or whatever so you're on especially on the road. You're tighter knit group that home. Everybody went their own was weird. Spot ninety because the cardinals especially especially the core group had done nothing but win win pennants and then all of a sudden mean except team. If I'm not mistaken you get into the fact that once you went to Montreal free all the team chemistry went away yeah did it kind of fell apart but when the team was struggling was that did that carry over into the clubhouse because I think the team had high expectations nations. That year was a surprise yeah. There were some big henry carryover into the clubhouse. CLUBHOUSE got some good leaders with Ozzie and Tom Fernandez and guys at that so I don't think it really really came into the club as much it was just aren't performing and it's tough to play performed. What was the League minimum in. I would imagine that's what you were getting when you first came up when I came up four seventy five. I think I might even be higher than five hundred yeah. I didn't get that it's <hes> I don't think that my whole career and look it up on baseball report. It was sixty five thousand dollars a year when I he to five. I hate to give you a strike outs and more strike less money. It's a mess today ten eighty eighty five and eighty nine ninety one hundred five. That's what that's what they're saying on. Baseball reference does that does that make sense to you. Yes that sounds all right. What are they get this stuff. I don't know but I was definitely underpaid. You should go back and ask for something. I mean you are fantasy. League educated yeah. I don't think I'll do that because I'm glad just to get invited Charles Hamster. I'M NOT GONNA ask for any more money. <hes> when it all wraps up you go oh from the expos to the padres and spent a year in San Diego correct. What was that like that was good. I mean you can't beat the weather around. Every day is eighty three to eighty five at the most and at night seventy to seventy five and just perfect weather. That's a lot of people like to live. There might be the number. One place for former athletes to live got some padding. Lewis is right there to San Diego Atlanta and St. Louis. That's absolutely right. You gotta be but <hes>. No it was awesome got to play another hall of Famer Tony Gwynn but was like watching that person is a lot better watching it from the bullpen and it was from the mound it. You didn't see him coming up. He was only one for three of me but that is his lifetime batting average three hundred thirty three so no. Tony was just <hes> machine. I mean you know I'd like to see them. Try The shift on him first of all they wouldn't try that because he hit ever w absolutely basically he hit where was pitched and that's what was so great about Tony Grant and he studied not only the pitchers he was gonNA face on that road trip or that homestand he he studied the relievers. He knew what was coming. We're other guys doing that and he just had ridiculous ability or is it just his commitment thing. He was wanted to first start doing it. He would carry these V._H._S. tapes. I don't remember those of course they played a Dallas Cowboy. Sewer balls on coming giants fan because <hes> yeah there's. No D._V._D.'s with the Dallas cowboys play playing in any kind of playoff but <hes> anyway <hes> yeah Tony would bring a whole suitcase full of these cassettes and he would study the pitchers and <hes> he had great guy guide even ability but he w- he worked Ozzie Ozzie had great god-given ability as well but he worked that he took more ground balls and anybody on the team and that's why he was there are thirteen time gold glover covering the team and pools was here. You know people be like addio because he was he was at times groff to deal with from media standpoint but I don't blame guys not WanNa do interviews but he he really was. He was working his ass off even though he was the best player in the game and that's why they're the best Michael Jordan same thing yeah just obsessed they're assessed would be in the best and they they work hard anybody to be the best. Were you obsessed like growing up we have. I'm Mike. It just wasn't the best I was GONNA. I was called on to do I was good at but <hes> and there's another level I mean I just watched the hall of fame inductions and you get to. I love it. It's just you know they. They're the best of the best what is it. I know this might be getting into like kind of like old course dude. What do you think but like what separates a guy from like it's major leaguer so when you're talking about seven hundred of the best in the world but then there's that twenty five that are different world than you know twelve or pitchers twelve or position players like what do they have. That's a good question. If I knew that I would ask them did get something but well you know. It's just it's just work ethic. It's the you gotTa have the natural ability and <hes> they just take that next and its consistency. You have to stay healthy you you have to do it over the course of a fifteen to twenty two getting all fame and I feel like I'm very instrumental in getting Ozzie and Tony Gwynn into the hall of fame. Did they end N. Tim Raines. I played with him in mentioned cooperstown and their speed and not one of them. Wow I thought I thought for sure why he was going through but they all forgot me is alarming best player you ever pitched against best player. I have a chance I could tell you. One of the best interview me who owned me. Yeah Lenny dykstra Lenny Dykstra nine for sixteen. I'm sure you'll look it up and say he was twelve with but ah I bounced a slide as lenny ripped down the line foul and I was just bounce. Didn't he still hit me say he he <hes> he kinda. He liked facing me best teammates. You had best teammate. That's a good question. There's so many <hes> you know if I had to pick WANNA go at Bob Fourche Bob Four Bob what was great about him because it seemed like he wasn't necessarily like wasn't a vocal writer but he lead by example example and he was also a behind the scenes prankster that a lot of people didn't know some of the stuff he's done. He got paid back a few times which I can't talk about but that's the Omerta whatever that means anyway now yeah Bob Bob would do it on the radar but <hes> he's a seasoned in veteran that if you if you needed somebody get plunked hid plunk them if you needed eight hundred s Jeffrey Leonard Yes landed <hes> Pascual Peres comes to mind another guy that I punched out fourteen of us as he was striking out he was shooting us down with his finger and why basically came into the locker combs that I don't know who's pitching at our place but that S._O._B. needs to go down here and <hes> Bob the pitching all perfect timing and I think the first one was way away inside ball one second one was behind all too and the third one jumped up about three or four miles an hour and him in a cage and Danny tax they believe went up to the top step and was asking him if he wanted to shoot anybody and not one guy in Montreal moves off. That ben does a lot now. You don't Shaw another team when you're beating them that some unwritten rules baseball <hes> as far as the most talented player that you were around and whether this team or against a team like you look back man. I can't believe I played in this. This guy was on the field. Would that be Gwynne besides myself of course that was that was understood. Actually Tony Room is the best hitter yeah and Ozzy was probably the best athlete all around Athletes Yeah but there's another gentleman. I'll put in there <hes> Andy Van Slyke. That's my workout buddy next door. He not only could beat you at his arm he could beat to his glove and he could beat you with his bat so and it was a heckman athlete and I didn't like him too much because he hit me pretty. You know you don't want to say this because he already has a healthy sense of self as it is yes yes he does but if you don't have that you go in that the drive to be the best and you're not. GonNa Compete at that high level so you have to have that confidence about you know. They say you're cocky. It's how you carry yourself. Some guys can be too cocky like Jeffrey Leonard and and then there's other guys that just carried himself with confidence like when you saw Tony Gwynn come into the plate. Everybody knew he's the best in the game at the time and especially the pitcher because you have to face him but it was just that swagger confidence which you have to have if you don't have that if you don't think you'd have best you're not going to be able to compete against the best. Did you ever cross paths with bonds binds. I faced my only a couple of times. I'm not sure don't look it up because I don't correct me again but <hes> yeah I did but <hes> you know what he he wasn't the type of guy. I would want as talented as he was. He was you know definitely a hall of fame even without taking anything he it just wasn't the best teammate and you guys on your team. No matter how talented they ought to be a great team and is he was a great teammate. Tony Gwynn was a great teammate but <hes> and I didn't play the bonds. I shouldn't maybe say anything about it but you came across did play with came across. He was more interested in about himself doing well. Then did the team when I was doing television. I I was twenty three when I started and I'm like I thought it I all these guys. WanNa do interviews and then it took about a week three allies. No no one wanted to do interviews and that was that was eye opening so then it kind of became a sport for me to see how they would tell me to piss off so when bonds came to town in two thousand. I'm like this'll be great. He's really gonNA tell me to go off myself now so I walk in there and sure enough. He's in that leather chair. We always heard about that was in his contract that he would have his own weather chair and he was sitting in there and said. Hey Barry got time to do a one finger. He's going to tell me to go and he goes. Why do you want to talk to me and I I don't know pretty good ballplayer and he goes are let me think about only God and he comes out and he does a twenty minute one on one interview with me unbelievable the whole time fans are screaming at them to do in to sign an autograph. I said you know if you just walked over there and we're done. I said this during the interview probably pretty <hes> irresponsible I suppose in hindsight and I said sign that for those that five minutes he would do that. Everybody there would remember that the rest of their lives because you don't understand. We don't get paid to do that though he goes. I don't get paid to do interviews here. I'll do interviews with you and then you'll go and say I said something that I didn't say and then you use it against me and I'm not getting paid to do this and that was just kind of his Co.. To measured and sign autographs and a lot of guys guys didn't but then you get a guy like Stan musial who would sign for any and everybody would go into that office. Dan The man inside absolutely and I don't blame them because you know you get to that level. I've never been that little obviously but an Ozzie Smith Barry Bonds. You know some of the best that ever play the game. They don't have a whole lot of privacy. You can't go out to dinner at a public restaurant. You can't almost go anywhere without being recognized so I understand that part about being guarded and the fact he did that is that that's pretty good if he has made yeah and like I said I wasn't his teammate. It just came across. Sometimes he seemed more about himself than the team. Yeah 'cause sometimes they'd it'd be making a pitching changes. It'd be sitting against the wall and he's like annoyed that they came back and tied the game after he just got to leave for them or whatever but but now that's why. I went to Andy Andy he would be the guided you want on your team because he he cared and he played hard and he was for few here's they're just as talented as anybody in the game we'll the look on his face after sid bream scores in that game after he and and and he's been in here <hes> and and he talks about how he was telling bonds to move on to move up and then bonds covers up the glove flips him off and of course the ball drops in right in front of the thing. If if you're good teammate you gotTA realize the Center. Field is the field general feel right the captain if he's telling you to move because he knows something is not telling you to move out because he thinks thinks he's better than you and your. Barry Bonds at the time probably the best player in the game him and Ken Griffey junior and he's like. I don't have to listen to you all day Ryan. I got got a good arm. I'll throw them out from here or whatever and if he would have moved up sid bream I mean I could beat him in a race right now even back in ninety two and even David a Bryan out <hes> but you know and then you just have van Slyke sitting there with is like hat over his eyes and can't get up from the Fulton County Stadium Field and he's just like you've gotta. It'll be kidding me. You've housed that's baseball. I mean who would have thought needing fewer would have given up the run to a Jack Clark. Even pitched wonder underwrite yeah. I can still see Pedro Guerrero slamming and slamming field and I think Andy Van Slyke was on deck. That's right love talking about that pitch clock instead A._M. And who is on deck when Bobby Thomson is famous woman the giants. I don't have that one. Willie mays really wow how look it up. You've been looking at your salary and strike. I thought it was bad information. Contact the people at there's a google mistakes. When you see the game now take your pick of whatever element the home runs all the strikeouts no stolen bases the money everything being on television run over the catcher cannot run over the catcher other example. You gotta be careful sliding in a second trying to break up a double play instant replay Eh. What do you think of all this you like it. You dislike it sure you wish you would play it in this era making minimum there. It's not that I don't like I I. I watched the cardinals all time and I still love the game of baseball but I think money's changed the game. I mean <hes> Posey got hurt. I think that's what changed. The ruled ruled sliding homepage barreling over the catcher. Do you like that rule that they've changed. I don't like okay. I can see how you're trying to protect these great athletes and some of your best hitters and players on the team. You don't WanNa get hurt but at the same time it's still called hardball for a reason you know and I understand you don't want to get people hurt taking cheap shots and if somebody does achieved shot throw them out of the game but Posey at her I think he broke his ankle on a hard slide into the plate and when stars and your league start getting hurt and beyond disable sable as they're making you know twenty to thirty million dollars a year. That's that's going to hurt your team and you know everybody's playing for their own statistics. We're back in our day vince would walk still second ground ball to the right side of the infield moved them over the third sacked fly to the outfield he tags up and scores whereas we got one nothing lead and we don't even have a hit yet but that's the way we played white ball small ball and now guys don't want to give themselves up to maybe move that run over third base because when they go to arbitration they're. GonNa use that against him that he didn't Bat X. Amount you only about a two fifty where you could have maybe bad to eighty if he didn't give yourself up all the times uh-huh because you're trying to help the team win by moving runners over this corner position now that was the cardinals daddy's and it was the best you that style i. I'm always curious especially guys who played on those those teams if that could work now well and you know. Somebody asked why did that question. I don't think it would because the ballparks are a little smaller than Mars no more astroturf and <hes> yeah his his teams are built on speed pitching and defense and we had the fastest team in baseball had some pretty good pitching and awesome defense defense. That's with one the two teams that were the best teams that I can remember as lifelong cardinal fan the eighty-five cartels ridiculous and the Oh four Carnot four-car Natto far different two best teams in baseball both of those years and probably for many other as well but yeah we had <hes> I acting magazine. He got hurt right before the two thousand four world carpenter did Lithuania got hurt in two thousand with the hunting nine two thousand and one Anki then I've got to meet these things all blur together memory and if I don't I just look up your your striped out all I do but I'd be curious. eighty-five have cardinals that style with what you had one. Guy Clark hit over thirty home runs the Oh four cardinals had a bunch of guys you know with Edmunds rolling pools I well. I don't know maybe he's up in a cabin in Alaska with a few other guys like Scott Norwood and the guy who was indicted or running the tarp and that guy's gotta be banished somewhere almonds on that Tina fey he's up in a cabin with Leeann. Let you know Scott Got Norwood <hes> Darkman whoever you're pissed a bunch of guys up in that cabin playing at the top ran I think one mile per hour and fans happens without stretching before the game and <hes> he didn't see a common and apparently nobody else did either by the time it got to it was leg started rolling up on his ankle and they tried to stop it with some bats. They'd try to wedged bats under the Stop it from Hebron but is a mechanical thing so I just kept rolling <music> all my guy. I didn't know that part of the store and just caught him off guard so they can see this is like rolling up on his leg. The Fastest Guy in baseball getting run over by a tarp that but he was around for the dodgers series right happened in between the dodgers and the world series it happened right before the world series as just bad timing because <hes> Vincent health today beat the royals and five games. Oh my God they were up. Maybe forty one was didn't realize this. I went to the University of Missouri. I had no idea the about this Kansas City thing but Kansas City's got a thing with Saint Louis and so they any I still. It's been what thirty five years ago deck and glad fact. Why do you gave them a two thousand fifteen. You can't correct me because I'm correct on that doesn't fifteen. He gave <hes> deck enjoy while gave everybody on that team a watch such a nice watch but he gave decorator Braille Watch and who took it well. I mean why didn't him a friends and they understand it. He blew the call. I mean we all knew he blew the call right <hes> he. He's a good sport about it and it's water under the bridge right. He got into the hall of fame without that. Why do you did wonder before he golfing often the world. Championships could've had three because Jack Clark got hurt and he wasn't hurt too. I could be wrong. The check nine strike as I had a sixty two five instead of sixty five and eighty eight got to pay the twenty five hundred back they call Ya. This'll be edited out. Don't worry about <hes>. What do you think a replay replay wasn't around when you were pitching obviously would have helped in eighty five. I think for playoffs and world series. I like it for regular season games not so much dragging it out and I don't I don't I think that doing somebody said in the Atlantic League or somewhere a strike zone if they ever go to a mechanical strike zones. I think that's our electric strikes. I think that's just going to take away from the game. I mean you're already can't run over. The catchy can't slide into the second too hard. I mean it's like I said earlier. It's still hard ball. You still got to play the game the way it was meant to be played. I mean look look at Pete Rose in the game and he was in seventy two. Maybe I don't know when I don't have Google in front of me anyway. He knocks over Ray Fosse and knocked him back. They say it changed his career path but <hes> it's an all star game but back then they played that game for pride and they played played hard and Pete Rose played the game hard anybody yeah he was <hes> he was bad crap. I mean you would never see that game in two thousand nine hundred ninety nine you can. It's more about the Homerun Derby Yeah. That's the name of the game as you look at the cardinals right now. You say you watch their their first place. They're doing doing well. I mean everybody's a little apprehensive didn't want to get too excited about being in first but at the same time goldies getting hot and goes MIC can stay hot. He can carry a team for one yeah and <hes> I I'd like to see us deadlines deadlines and four hours four and a half hours so I haven't gotten any calls you are available but I don't think mosaic wants to look at guys like but <hes> I would love to see him. Pick up a pitcher on the starter. I started starter yeah if they could get one front-line star or somebody like syndergaard or Stroman who the mets picked up power goes to the rest. It kind of Stan was running if the mets are gonNA try make another blockbuster deal before the deadline and you stroman part of that but that's what I was wondering. I'm wondering if the reds will do that with power I don't I don't doing doing usually you see the buyers. Just throw the ball. What did you think of that. Yes in Kansas City on Sunday <hes>. I don't think he did it to show up. Tito coming out to get him. I think he was just frustrated. Did them yeah and I like that. Yeah and you know what that's a heck of a throw he he actually threw it over the fence from the mound and he didn't say a crow hobby and I couldn't believe it it now. Could you when you were playing could you would you be on the disabled list right after they try to throw it. I knew I wouldn't want to do that with Whitey Herzog anyway. Why did you ever when he came out heck. No yeah there is one rule is taught since I got called up one when you go out to the mound opened up your glove and why you replace the ball in it and if you get taken out of the game do not open that same glove and having reached the take it out you hand him the baseball wow it was as a show of respect that I have that on my phone. It's a picture from nineteen eighty nine where it shows me coming into the game and white he's taken the ball and putting it into my glove because everybody keeps tease me. Is he taking you out and I said No. I'm actually coming in 'cause my gloves open and he's putting the ball. If I was coming <music> out you'd see the ball in my hand and me handing it to Whitey. No I would never ever ever say anything to Whitey fact. I didn't hardly talk to him. I I'm good friends that are now but back back then was he intimidate intimidating and I would just not my head this son of a gun. I'd go out hit. Tell you the situation and tell you how many outs <music> who was on base but the hitter and in his go get them and that was it and I was I did was not in my head who are the other managers who played for obviously not played one block riders and Montreal. He was is a pretty good manager yeah and Greg Ridi- in San Diego. I'm not sure how he got that job. That doesn't sound like his leg rid. Iraq act was probably the worst manager. Well definitely the worst manager I ever played for but maybe the worst manager ever yes. I can say that now. They don't work for them anymore. What we what made Whitey so good <hes> he he was three four five moves ahead of the magic manage against E._s. Jet He could take his team beat yours and then take your team and come back and beat his then. That's the saying about good manager. He was but he was he knew he knew you would guys to put into its situations to make them the most successful they could be and would help the team be successful three sabermetrics right and I. I can't imagine you like sabermetrics stunned to fix editor. Giant castello is a big fan of uh part of the game or the shift part of the game and Tony Larussa Russa used computers and white. He had a computer in his head and it is part of the game. I think it is a necessary thing to utilize but you can't bank everything on it. Sometimes you gotta go by Your Gut and your hunches and your baseball knowledge and I mean why do you learn from Casey. STANGL wanted a bath and why would all his experience as a player in the big leagues and then as a manager player had player development for the mets then it became measuring taxes than the royals and obviously cardinals and the guy is he's forgotten more about baseball and most people will ever know that's how smart he isn't and he just was so far ahead of everybody else in the game. Do you take take any of that and use it for your for your managing it fantasy camp. I do but not nearly at that level. I kind of compare myself itself. No although I do have one championship and so he's so this is out there but now if viewer on his twenty five man roster you utilized and you are important and that's what made him so good 'cause. Everybody busted their talent. He only had to rule shrove on time and buster town yeah well John. I have enjoyed having you and thank you for coming in <hes> the the morning meetings. That's classic material. I know it will never be shared anywhere because of the Omerta that we spoke of that you brought up you brought up the Omerta the OMERTA. Can you spell that. Oh that's a good start yeah. Well you know I it. It's we have a lot of C._E._O.'s of companies. We have a lot of people that come down to these cans and they spend a lot of money to come to these fantasy camps and I think it's the best fancy cam baseball it's incredible and they wanna feel a part of the experience of being in that locker room of a major league baseball team and we give them that experience and they love it and we love it and it's one of those camaraderie things they feel a part of being ran that uniform the birds on the bat the history of the cardinals. I mean besides the Yankees we are probably the most storied history franchise in baseball and and so you got the Yankees Cardinals Arnold experience that it really truly is the best the only thing that I was worried about talked about the sniper. You see a lot of guys feel they can relive the glory days they come hustling down the first baseline gets him at first base hit to the outfield they think they're Vince Coleman and they sprint data that box and they around first base and first base that hamstrings blown out or the calf blown out. It's because the mind is willing. Gold Mine says you're still twenty ninety five but the body is not and something's gotta give the sniper yeah. The cyber definitely will find you John. Thanks so much all right. Tim Thank you for having me. Thank give so. Here's my conversation with John. Costello from the home loan expert Dot Com studios <hes> guys just <hes>. He's just system using. I really feel like that's the guy that like we cardinal guest he watches the game very closely <hes> and just to kind of give an honest assessment of <hes> of what he sees <hes> that's more my style and he's just you know. Ministers Textbook Ball Boston kind of humor <hes> uh not happy about <hes> thinking he made sixty five thousand in one thousand nine hundred eight realizing it's now sixty two thousand five hundred and <HES> and not realizing that he had struck out nine times times in the major leagues when he thought going into this interview for now thirty years that it was only seven times he told a story we were wrapping up that <hes> he faced Fernando Valenzuela and <hes> he crushed a ball that was second deck home run at the Old Busch stadium but he hit so hard it went right to left left and just foul by about a foot and then the next pitch Valenzuela through screwball and he missed it by ten feet and that wrap that up and that he grind it in a bad against just white gooden he thinks it might have been opening day at Shea Stadium and <hes> in good and just going on camera fast but he kept falling off it was like one to for like seven or eight pitches and and then good like okay fine and then he throws the breaking ball and John said he missed it by you know ten feet goes in the dirt so he has to run down the first Gary Carter ran over to get the ball gets them by a foot and then Keith Hernandez says <hes> that's like you made an out twice struck out and you got thrown out and it's like this. This is fun to come up and face Major League pitchers but <hes> to get that perspective from somebody who played at new as an afraid to talk about it and also present day <hes> really enjoyed that so John Costello the guest here presented by Mark Arcana of Evergreen Wealth Strategies. Thank you to all of our sponsors. You make it possible. Mark Hanna Ryan Kelly the home loan expert dot com or cans at Evergreen S. T. L. DOT COM James Carlton Carlton Insurance Silence Dot Net and then we also have designer heating and cooling online at designer service DOT com the number one trained dealer in the Midwest and Johnny Llandough Chevrolet at Llandough Dot Com highway two seventy seventy in Washington was becton <hes> Chevy find new roads. If you miss anybody interviews without a lot of great blues interview since they won the Cop Pat Maroon last as we Craig Berube Doug Armstrong Cam Jansen and read low <hes> John Kelly coming up <hes>. I feel like I'm missing something thing <hes> but <hes> plenty of baseball here coming up over the next couple of months the cardinals had down the stretch <hes> so always appreciate the feedback and questions you submit for questions from the audience send in whatever it's a free for all t mckernan at inside S. T. L. Dot com for your feedback. Where your questions for questions from the audience all right. That's going to wrap it up for another episode of the Kern show from the home loan expert. Dot Com studios. Thanks for listening. This has been the current show on the inside of steel podcast.