178 Transforming Education In The Era of Covid w/ Ted Dintersmith, Bestselling Author
Thanks for pressing play. This is Christopher Lockhead, follow your different and right off the top. I want to say a big. Thank you. To everyone who sent notes in emails and Lincoln's Inn tweets and facebook Cetera of appreciation for our last episode with Pastor Dave. Ferguson. You know, I'm really glad to hear how many of you enjoyed the conversation. How pastor Dave seems to have sparked some powerful dialogues for many with your family and your friends as you know all of us around here. We believe in the power of real conversations to make a real difference and it was great to see that. So many people got so much from that last episode, and if you are sharing that episode with your friends and family and loved ones and with your church or whatever a religious group you might be associated with or whatever religion you believe in also WanNa. Thank you. For that. It seems to have smart sparked a real conversation about theology which is also very cool. I also want you to know that I deeply appreciate the notes of support for me in our family as we continue to grapple with some of the worst circumstances that any family has to do with. It's an incredibly incredibly trying time of walking through much fire for us and so Thank you for your love and support. And I'm doing my best to respond to all of the social media and emails that are coming in and if I haven't been able to respond just yet I, do want to know your words of support, your love and support is wonderful and so thank you. It means a lot not just to me, but to our whole family. Okay, on this episode, a legendary conversation about schools and education. This is a topic I don't think is getting enough attention right now, and so with us on this episode is the author of a great book called what school could be insights and inspiration from teachers across America, and his name is Ted Dinner Smith, and if you're a long-time listener, you might recall Ted was with us in twenty nineteen shortly after his book came out. and. I wanted to have him back, and this is a special two part series. We're doing aimed at shining light on Two of the seminal problems that have been caused by the see nineteen crisis, and in my opinion, frankly are not being talked about enough and are not being talked about in a thorough rigorous thoughtful way, and those two issues are education and entrepreneurship. So on our next episode you'll hear from professor of economics at the University of California Santa Cruz Professor Rob Fairly. He's an amazing guy. He's done some fantastic research on the impact of seed nineteen on entrepreneurial businesses and. What I think is a horrible disproportionate impact. The crisis is having on entrepreneurs and business owners of color and women, entrepreneurs, and business owners. So that's coming up next on this episode, Ted, he a former legendary VC turned off her. And when he wrote his great book, He came on the podcast. We had an amazing conversation and one of the cool things that Ted did in writing his book is he visited some two hundred schools in every state in the United States to gain some insights on what the greatest educators in the US do. and. I've been thinking a lot about school as I know many of you have a parents who are looking at a school year. That's very uncertain. Right now, some schools haven't even declared if they're going to do in person or or or hybrid home, and in person, or it's still very much in flux and I, know Ted's been talking to a lot of the top educators country and I was hoping to get his insights with a standing on the edge of the new school year here. How do we make this work? How do we figure out how school works in this new reality and Ted has some powerful in some great ideas about that? And we even get into how to make what might be the weirdest school year in modern history and opportunity to reimagined school and reimagined learning. So if you care about our future, if you care about kids, if you care about education I, think you're GonNa love this conversation with Ted pay special attention to his ideas on how to tap into the intrinsic motivation of kids to spark their learning, and he shares a story that is really spectacular about how one school us. Teaching rap music to produce a breakthrough in learning results. GO TO LOCKHEAD DOT COM check out the show notes for. For. This episode, learn more about Ted's awesome book and get the key takeaways. While you're there subscribed to our newsletter, the difference and we're sponsored by my friends Oracle Net, sweet checkout net sweet dot com slash different today for more on the world's number one, cloud business system. My friends spunk help you bring data to everything visit sp L. U. N. K., dot com slash di the number to the letter e and my friends at crash are the new way to get hired. So if you're looking to turbo charge your career visit crash dot com slash different today now heyhoe. Let's go. Great to be back. How things change, yeah was how I've thought about your book a lot since we talked and in particular since all of this business started and the title of your book, Of course, how school could be am I remembering that, right? What's? Your what school could be and like, wow. What could school be now? Ted? So. That's maybe we can start there. Yeah. Well interro context. The specific context of school and I've been circling back with a lot of the people that wrote it out. You know they had intentionally transferred more voice to the students. So the kids they work with were really good free. On. Identifying what they wanted to learn. Turning that into an initiative, they wanted to create create managing your own time to drawing appropriate resources, other adults, online stuff. And then sticking with the Julia presumptively cared about and in my book with no sensible aluminum pandemic I said. Really important skill for adults. And you look at vast and attentional part of what's going on in the school. Ginger gauged their learning deeply jointly. The role of the teacher is different, much more fulfilling and I said bats is that's something we should admire and celebrates well now when you can't be in school, what happens and when I circled back people who. Had pursued that approach which I wish we're everybody, but it's a, it's a certainly more of a sliver in the education world in the majority is a hey. Kids Miss. Being schooled in the fans They miss your activities, but they didn't stop running at all anything they made for more than they were before. An end when you were warned the traditional model where somebody's talking yet taking notes, you're memorizing for short term exam. Difficult Mission for teacher in person. But trying to do it virtually my gosh. This massive disparity. One of the themes that we're seeing in the last four five months is how? It's essentially it. All of these inequities disparities in society. Certainly. True. Not, people talk about pedagogy news a massive difference between to use an analogy kids who had learned how to fish. Versus kids that were good. FISHY years at new. Even Normal Times. Make kids eat fish didn't work for them in enchants but now. Virtual. Fish. The kids were good at fishing whether they were in school or at home, even if they didn't have access to digital resources would certainly. Is a massive challenge in which she we failed. Congratula. But with or without still. Push. To learn acting Gig, good decks and so. I think it's sort of been the Dickens Best Times worse in times, but but maybe a lot more of the worst times. Well I mean, certainly, there are some positives, but may before we go, there I just let me share with you what what I've been worried about. And that is that women and mothers have been disproportionately. In a negative way by all of this business. And informally, anyway, the the the mothers that I've been talking to in my life I've sort of asked him in roughly as a percentage of your normal. How much more water are you carrying as a result of all of this? and. I hear numbers like twenty to fifty percent more. And you know the scenarios that I see I see MOMS who now have a a husband who's working from home or a husband who's lost his job We, see, of course, homeschooling now. So mom's gotta be not just tutor, but in some ways professor as well or principal of the school or whatever analogy you want. And of course, feeding a family has gotten more expensive and more challenging. This summer. A. Lot of the MOMS that I know were incredibly bombed that you know their kids weren't going to be able to do the normal sorts of activities that they did. and. That puts more pressure on the MOMS as well. And I know, ted. Some women who are I, I would call them warriors of just incredible powerful women. Who? Cried with me when they found out, those kids are now after all that are not going back to school in September. and. So as you think about sort of this, this time that we're in and this whole new dynamic in the household with the home turning into the school and what it means for our moms sort of. How do you think about all of that? Well, it's. The real hardship and your point is exactly right. I talked to talk to a lot of people balked teachers. Administrators, parents? Students. Can you imagine a type of hiring society or stress and particularly you know? This is where the inequities getting, magnify your your family plenty of resources in its maybe inconvenient. Maybe it's not what you want. Maybe you can grouse a little bit of A. Generally, they can put together in a way. It works really well, now you're single parent holding two jobs. You've gotTA treat five minutes and seven year old I. Mean how does that work round has our in so? These are real challenges erotic. Like? The mindset you have, we think it's going to be. months, but surely by the summer will be three this. It will magically disappear. Temperatures go off and we'll be fine next year, and now suddenly were staring the school year by base. And I consider be by and large, not true everywhere. But to taxes rules don't reopen the schools do try to reopen quickly shut back down. And you know you can be in some locations, the country where the viruses fight under control. So that won't be troops down. But most kids are going to be start, stop chaos hassle. You think you've made one plan changes. This is real hardship and and it's not like we snapper hangers and say oh? Yeah, we just do X. we're fine. Arm It is a Cobra crisis. Well, that was my uneducated assessment of the situation and you have a very much more educated assessment. So the fact that it's yours to. Is. Confirming and a giant bummer. And so. If, I'm a a school principal or if I'm an executive in a school system or school if I'm a teacher. What advice would you have for me on? Okay. So in most parts of the United States plus or minus I, you tell me being physically in school is not going to happen or not going to be possible in the September semester. There's the high potentialities I would assume. That that will again be true in the January semester. Or let's say this if I was a teacher principal executive. Planning that it was all going to be magically good on Jan. One is probably dumped. So right now as a school leader of one sort or another. A my right Ted in assuming that I have to wrap my mind around how we care for these kids how we educate these kids for essentially a whole school year and a distance Digital way is at that where my head should start. I. If you plan for to the entire school year, we get some magic vaccine that everybody uses state you know definitive. Is, massively. Russia. The market in an effective way. Entire year, but but if I were. In the shoes of these people tried to plan now, the future, I, I have an enormous amount of empathy for. Can't be begin to stress how difficult of the scope decisions that have be made. You think about person whether it's a principal or superintendent or head of school person who's on the hot seats, decide whether real bring plans are. Tell me winning announcement. Complexities on certain, you know people perceived risk of wives, kids. You know I think in some ways you look at the data. We should talk about that in a second risk is a lot more wickets, Cherry back to families what teachers are exposed to their arrests and they're not getting a cold there. No. Like death rates, some people. Think about this. You say I didn't do it for teaching. Underscore a couple things. One is. Even if you had a great plan to reopen it requires. And I mean just are marching through everything has to be done safely. For you to say, here's our landing open. Here's an transportation plan. Here's the vector disinfected plans. Here's our staff classrooms would happen students. Here's our net nurses on call, and you look at everything that's required, and then you say owned by way to it, even fewer budget dollars, state Mojo budgets that hammered. I mean, my Gosh. Who who can I mean? We can ask a lot of her teachers. They step up and do a lot. We can ask a lot instructors, but I don't think you can ask. Somebody on Mars on Dr Every five. But. And so so that's really hard I think. If you step back and the ticket deep. Started to look at the data, the reality situation L. Circle things that I think are points focus on? I? MEAN I. Even though. Coaches fourteen year allergy twelve, but I'm here. So I can relate to this is. Your parent, you're paranoid about what might happen your jets if you look at the data. For. The real risk for perchance, it's time. You know there's there's a bigger risks that your child will die from choking on food. Then there is the virus right and and nobody's around saying I'm going to not let kids eat food because they might Chilton. It's there's some level of how many kids I mean I. I hate dinner table. Let me poke at you a little sure. You know how much time I spent an epidemiology or for that matter medical school. So. Caveat. Caveat. The one thing I worry about that that we can't know from a lot of the data and in this regard data around children is. If a child gets covid were hearing these stories of of others. Now, birth children with covid. To the best of my reading, let me say it that way. We don't understand what the potential long term impacts. Is there some immune system damage that gets done? Is there some other? And then there was that weird rashy thing that seemed to get in the news for a while that kids were saying as some kind of a result of CO anyway. I hear what you're saying. But I at least for me and I'm you know I'm I'm a committed uncle, but that's close right. It's still I still love lots of children. I'm just worried about even if a child gets covid and they're not even symptomatic, maybe they just blast through it. They test positive and a few weeks in and then they're gone, it's all fine. I'm still concerned that we just don't really know. It's you know if you think back to the early days of HIV AIDS. You know there's just so much. We didn't know about about an emerging virus, and so I don't know maybe you know things that give you more comfort be curious. But aren't you at least a little concerned? About the long term impact could be on kids lastly inside context of the uncertainty. So so if look at what's happened to date the number of young kids is We have a handle long-term. Do. We chant into law actually data. Thanks to South Korea on the ability of young kids to transmit and. That's you know bats arrest I, mean. It's. A risk for teachers in the school for the support staff. A My right eye. If I remember that stuff. I, mean. I. Seem to remember it being quite eye opening at the time that. these symptomatic kids could be quote. Unquote super spreaders is that is that what you're referring to my remembering that right yet. Ria. Results which was. Like a decent stab. Again, I've got as much epidemiology back issue but it was like eight hundred bucks. Adults fetters. Eight zero nine seems like it's about half. Zero Iras by the way. This discussion about what about Kids Kovin? I would say scurvy. Parallel discussion, what we have when the first axes. As long term. Does that give you complete immunity? Your partial does it lasts for. Six months, but you know it's a wrong of the stance of that scene means out of the first. A. First One's a live promising her out all behind. That will have. You know so so it's just there's Just. Uncertainty. I would say this, I would say. Drawing, on the people I talk to experts almost to. The need for young kids to be in a school environment is higher than the minimum high school kids the burden on we to support. Five. Six, seven, eight, nine, ten, year, old phone is higher, and so you start to rank sort of team fireworks. Yeah. We Wanna be looking at what are. Of treating all kids the same, what can we do to get younger kids back? And going in your favorites, they seem less likely to transmit. Arteries staff, those kids with younger adults who are less likely to you know as a life threatening result around this kids, and then what can we do? This is I think one of the biggest opportunities what can we do with kids of any age? KINDA wrong allies. What I wrote in my book is, what can you do to? Help them. You know take on worry challenges were they can run with their own. You know it's like think about. a lecture by. Every hour students in lecture, the truth, the lecture per hour and they action student volume. That is some number of minutes. Max Dismal minutes. Is it. The teacher keys a really interesting challenge through kid, but the kid gets interested in. Origin how long it? Sometimes. Our teacher time. Even g minutes a teacher time and lead to multiple hours soon, time a student gauge todd and to me. It. You know the framing I wrote to us on. This is, what are we talking about? Our kids learning. Or. What are they? And Traditional School is a lot about laying out with kids have. You know like it's all your textbook sits in the state mandated crucial minutes. I. Think there's this sense of. That, when they studied something, they've actually learned it yet live in a world where two-thirds adults can't name the three branches of. Know like I mean I just what? What? What did you just say, Tet. Thirds of adults in. America. CanNot name three branches of government. Well, let's see. There's the olive branch. Would you say tomato grows on a branch or is that more of a vine? You're fucking that be true Ted. starring. But is it surprising? Right? You look at US history which a lot of people think is the pinnacle of history study entertained else's. Fans, skin lesson class on. The. Constitution. If you're racing from fourteen, ninety, one present covering every smidgen of US history. The using H, he's creek cards crammed for the exam. What comes out of it so. Red Is is. You can. Lever. Adult time with gene student learning. Let them, go jeep on as hr about. Is Much better. I never claimed to be an education expert because I wouldn't trust our classroom teachers. But. You know for my kids when they were a great once a week. Homeschool, maybe three of his eight years. And initially, I was like, what are they doing enormous school rocket though? And it's it's kind of a battle. When you you young from, you say you gotta read this book or You gotTa, do you gotTa do this cows? Particularly jibs, I admire wants. Independence thinking in some. To them, it's like. Really one of. Told this is exactly. And? What sort of Said Oh. Okay get back. Which is questioned very few kids are at rest in school, which is, what are you? What are you interested? At these kids, all things are interested in. They are like. A million things are interested in and you say, what are you interested in? and. Then support to go deep bought, but as an adult. Teacher Parent. Classmate. Tank as they go into it. That interest try to broaden a tweet. Jason feels questions. Once, the signs were. History example. The Guy Who Eliot Engel in New York State General Bunk. Okay this is were. So Jamal takes over diss. Breed six. Eight school in what could be the forest area, your city, which is a vast this. These were just Kids I mean, they weren't Hinson parish drive forty, five minutes or signing pledges that we're GONNA do drills at home at night. Kinsey. Dr. Mike School or happen chest, Wa. Jamal. Comes in and says, you know what we're GONNA do we're apples? ooh. Focused on. Rap, music. While you're the jerk crease. Prospects, robberies. Our school is all about. This school where everyone was aghast me. Letting these kids rap, you say, you know not. WanNa. Dead. You would never you're never going to help these kids with intern and I got on my radar screen because. Five years, six years, we have a highest single game to test scores been school across the biggest school district in the country, probably the world and why it was kids want to be in school and they trusted the adults. Teachers even support staff. Everybody's leaning in kids interested in rap. That's a window charts because. A lot of rap actually has very powerful beautiful, which you know The map beats the physics of percussion history rap is for these kids while they may not be learning progressive era the. Historian because they're going and understanding how rocky. They may not be learning backroom recalling vehicles that they're learning the math behind beats and waited jetson be mass fluent. which is you know, right? What's our goal right comfortable with math or is can do twenty procedures photomask? And so. Powerful. Reflection of what happens if you start with Wet Chitwan? Tan. Trinity motivation. In power, you don't run an interest level to Jason seats and not well on the fact that a kid is learning EXAC with the classic. Maybe even let you know later that up by letting kids teach our years. My Presentation History Rats says Jerry for takeoff, they pretend to to their classmates as well. It's it's. Not? The intense standardize. You know we we the College Board. NCIA were listening to that, Sade. Say He's got it. All wrong. We're listening. Business important. What you might get on with a high school about learn how to balance a kimberly frazier I mean. You're ruining their future. You'll like some evidence by the way and his. People some level shirt better worse. But whenever I asked evidence that students even to a students have action routine what they learn. The ECHINACEA discouraging or doesn't exist. So this is fascinating. There's a whole bunch that you said, I wanNA maybe key onto two big pieces that went off in my mind. You said tap into their intrinsic motivation. So a child who loves RAP MUSIC I'm naturally drawn to it. I connect with other kids. My Age are naturally drawn to it. We study that. So That's interesting and then at the front end of somewhere in this section of our conversation, you made the statement, what are they learning as a question as distinct from? Are they learning and so I? Just WanNa make sure I'm learning what you want me to learn here Ted which is There's an a ha here that if you connect those two things, intrinsic motivation and and the framing of two different conversations, what I think I'm hearing you say is the pathway to broad learning. Is Focusing on, are they learning more and less on? Are they learning and if they're learning about the history of rap music and that opens the door to math or English or music or whatever other thing then? That's awesome. Either so why would would we do that and we will do it because if one students excited about rapping others extended excited about insects and another one's excited about. Four or something. Then they're not the same thing, and so we WANNA stand is you know that's only bystander education. If you want to measure. Ranked up against each other wreckage is in southern district practice is restraint. Countries, the other countries. You need that to. More or less the same things for the same test. And if you think about trying to administer test in bulk. You know Y-, you need to sort of dumbing down and so you look at I. Mean I go after Vengeance math, and it's always a bit of a Downer when I talked to audiences of educators because some of them are high for Matthew. And, I. It's fascinating to me. We have kids still that math almost adults us. and. And why are we doing that and we do it because as little tiny thirty to forty, five second problems like back from, you know how know meal or? Bus New Close Year Calculus for example. Rate Fodder for the standardized test desires. So you look at yes, Eighteen, the sex, which is your score is chock full. Of stuff that during view insults us? Legislator could pass it is my bet and the. And and so. I think like wh-. Sense. Went by the way. I've got a so each school, but I i. I got a piece in applied math. That's. Can Ask some sense. But I understand you this turn creative conceptual five math we could do starting delivers. It would be actually really useful. This is your on one that I don't understand to this day. How is it possible that a a kid can graduate high school in the United States of America and not understand what checkbook is not understand what a bank account is not understand what a credit card is. If you look at one of the things that gets all of us in trouble and particularly young people that go to college, there's all these credit cards being thrown at them all this stuff. They don't know how to manage a household. They don't understand about, hey, rule number one, spend less. Then you make. It understand any kind of financial planning or what a 401k is or I could go on, but let's just call it basic family life, personal family, financial literacy. How how is it possible? We graduate people with none of these skills and a an agreement everything you mentioned, but let's add one and that. They don't understand what it needs to take. Arm Twenty Five. You're a student loan debt, particularly the get behind your teammates and compound interest at a high rate kinks. And so when I talk to these young adults, twenty five years old. I like, how did you get your? Student loan debt you have, and they'll say I don't know. Let me check and then they'll get to me. Their they got a hundred kids. Now say well. And they say you know they just told me sign his formidable oh workout. Run Blah Blah. Blah. But, we skip over financial letters like ing, but by the way notches and they need. Kids think it's interesting. Right I mean. It's actually relevant interesting and the map behind by Ninja literacy interim. You can go pretty far right. It's not just Fundamental core math operations ratio, which is about where everybody's. Tops out, but you know compound interest exponential functions start to get into investment strategy and portfolio going probabilities I mean, you and I, we could in an hour white or. Years Great. Around literacy, it would be useful later in life relevant, interesting kids. We've tackled to almost all before concepts. Why aren't we doing you know and I think it's because a lot of work for. US, and they just want to say like. Why don't we want to sign up for more work in a honestly you know or something really interesting math. is where there's no clear answer by is in, we're seeing with the pandemic by the way is finally people about math models and and they're wondering. What the Hell is, what the heck is a math model and you realize there's all sorts and served the An. Elaborate, you know efforts to think sumptious and. Just sort of a wealth of. Inside, pig jennings to the kind of Math I. Think our kids should be comfortable with. But instead to this day to this day if a kid. Good student at is America goes to the guidance counselor and says I teach statistics or shouldn't take calculus. The answer is takeout set for college. And when you do as I have you, will you know S- college admissions, officers, I'll s hundred admissions. Officers. Is there anybody in this room? It would prefer kid to take statistics, Calculus. Into, zero. And I'll tell them. I'll say you like I spent six years by one adults in America. Does Alot. canucks is still calculus. I get by not at Boeing nurtured saw bottling companies. Hyperbolic transformations to close for Marvel's I took AP. Calculus got. Five on it. I can do that. But I also knew nobody it. is so much more interesting and valuable for citizenship chinks into precisions and it. Really Opens Career Joyce. Statistics taught right is really created. Think about. Money. Right. How many kids in middle and high school sports I, mean lots narrow. But lots you look at moneyball. We're really being Kim creaky difference digesting the him edge the urine insight and we have otherwise you just use pernicious. That's far. That's interesting. And I think back to sort of these times, I. Mean. You know it's not a coincidence. I. Don't have his name off the top of my head, but one of the best. Sources, for information about spread Trojan was done by a seventeen year old kid Washington state. And with a interview where the candidate Jake was Pretty Be Yorker made even bats dude. I read about this game, but so he was interested in, is we just forget? That if you ignore student engagement. Watch students don't, learn and. Yet ready to call for five hours. Really. Now, we're really getting somewhere, right. So. Let's say I'm a I'm a parent, and I'm now I'm now co educating my children in a way that I didn't expect to and they're now they're home and they're going to be home for. Two semesters and maybe even more who the hell knows where all this things going. How do I think bound? Helping my child. Through the next year. And specifically had, can I flip my headset? Let's say, I, have a headset or a mindset that says. Fuck. You know this is GonNa suck and. Why. Are we paying taxes for schools? All of the negative about this, and the time sync it is, and you almost for some families. It's it's a food issue as well. I mean there's a lot that goes around this. So let's say I was able to change. My mindset can't wh-. What if this was an opportunity to have a breakthrough in in learning for my child and actually what if this was a blessing in disguise in? So far as the there might be a way that this is this is a more powerful paradigm for creating a successful happy. Highly functioning adult. If you say that's the objective of education or at least part. So. So how do I as a parent dealing with this? Okay, Ted's right. One of the things I remember most about your book and about our conversation, this notion of giving children. Agency. This, this notion of tapping into the intrinsic motivation, this this idea of. Are they learning versus what are they learning? How can I apply these concepts? These ideas to try and turn this thing into a positive now? So Let's. Let's say that I was moderately persuasive. Appear in convincing people that allow what they. Get Anyway and the summer slide. Real panic about is not just something they never. In First Vice New Chevrolet short term memory tasks. Some have expansive short term memories of called test takers. They look smart others aren't there poor test takers. We think dumb. Often that becomes. So don't policies. Let's say. People Surgical Big Siro Breath, and say, you know accent the fundamental. Skills like every kitchen. Encourage joint leader. Kim, should be good at figuring out how access resources so they could teach himself things kitchen. With. Basic level math I mean that's seniors layer there. But how week most here's one of the things I had discussions past week spreads they were. Crude, up Blah Blah Blah. You know we're building in addition on her house will try to get the ball that. Too, ill like you know. Like imagine. If, you had them watch this old house. And had them. Do you know any youtube sears? Or renovations something that makes it interesting for. You know. A different like I'm a big advocate. This is I think your your. You'll be on this. You're. Way. Ahead of me on it, but you're listenership I. Think we'll. Get on this issue is, here's this vast array of. Digital. Economy skills. that. I write about in my book, the can develop. At a very early age and so imagine what the heck. We're we're spreading were Hong, can he'd seen zoom nothing's working I? Got The courage to say what the Hell I don't share. You know. Let's regret my kit. Fi. Alex, fine. GINGERS. And in. And we we could probably lose fifty things in a community brought. US by the virus. Barring a tweet of interest developer website, you know changes are graphic design and it had his worst days or whatever did sign agreed website? How do you Do. Let's just say where can you go protesting within ten miles where we? What's really going on field testing? You know, what are we know about the accuracy of those tests? How fast results you know checking with? Their million kids if they get going on it in event but. Focused on, they're going to get good at websites, I can get good craft. Video even if by stoops zoom learn in. Social Media. This. And some by rebel is a contribution to their community. Can't in the thing that I find. So amazing is. Out of the kid. Those, things. If they go to upward, they could probably make fourteen fifteen years China labor loss to kick in some point that they can make thirty forty bucks an hour. I mean they're often running. Whether they go to college not. And yet I call it not for hanging fruit of education opportunities, uncolorful, low-hanging, or your. These digital and things. I. Write About Him by book we're. Just, a mega tangent where the school in why? Why in Westwood. One of the poorest across the. Why is really great woman? They chance we start. Me and. These are kids that normally wouldn't get to the end of highschool. They just did a big parcel normal school dinner. Big New building air three, hundred, fifty kids for the digital program. Google digital see rider look at. These produce and these kids without college are freelancers starting small consulting firms doing video editing remotely. You're off and running with a great life. So if somebody said to me, why? Why do I say how about this? How about this? Consider, backed it most kids after twelve, sixteen years of school. And not good anything. Really values many college graduates Daiwa. You've hired much. Day wanted to said so good at that. You can instantly plug in help us. I mean, that's rare. Wait sixteen years of school and it's not happening how about make the happen now? And about figuring out really creatively. So the kids don't have in my book. I write about we're a piece. Now if we call kind of I, call it our SOS video better. But we're interviewing people from my book to try and get some guys the stars slow year for what you can do. But we've seen is incredible guy who at the time was superintendent to coach Coachella this our. Not. Homes from rich. But near Palm, springs incredibly poor and Darrell Darrell. Adams's thing. I told me is. I. Wrote the second worst district in the country as was us. He said I don't know I'm sure car. and. Christopher did this profile why? By meals where they've routers on school buses in parts, school buses in the low income areas. Chins inner vans had access to Wifi and use. A. A great idea. What a great idea. You know. It's a what we said to all the people kind of on the beach. No attack. When was got this big thing with these balloons. What we just at Google you know like. US. How. Do we get why access to every disadvantage chip treasury. He's and we had a white, house. Joni any degree of leadership in the Department of Education, showed any leadership which we know. But they just called in to selling companies in the tech companies. Instead Conrad Crevices, there are extant kids who are shut off digital resource world. We're fixing that by Labor Day. Janet. Tower jet is fucking. And and and we'll fund it. Is Free. But a journey of priorities, he saw the our. And that supposedly WIFI wheels but said. These college kids that have to do. And said, you're going to be in the modern day. You know. Education Preschool. And we'RE GONNA. Do Papa consulting with these chance aren't doing projects like. There's. Really great things said if somebody amid it'll. Begin talk and have the nation Wissam. Elections your. Show, but I mean, if somebody you do now. This is Now we know. In a way, we should always know the teachers jobs are incredibly Dan. Now A way. We should have always known that we can't have functioning economies. Better schools you know. Even back once they're getting back to normal. How we start to elevate were song support them. Out them pivots and things rumble barry warming experiences for their kids. Close the gap between the rich kids before kids I think you know done. Right. This would be the perfect time to do that. But what are we saying? I, mean, we're we are so far unions, right? They see I. Cry. When, when you look at schools being school drawings supposed to be open. Now, we're right at Sylvia's time that we saw you know congress painting what they're. GonNa do and you know. President saying. Everything. I was supposed to do. The grunt viruses still surging than most places. But Even. Though I said for eight years in education issue is local time for me to make this really clinical and say every time we open and it doesn't gang funding for the most dispensed consumer. And I. I hope it comes across that I say that we can agree about rage because that's exactly how I feel. You know it's like. Is the course of democracy dipping kids. Across America first, our life is the single. Most important thing we can do to mention functions civil society. We're fucking. Amen Hallelujah and to put an additional point on it. Not Too. Long ago, we had David Crane on from governor for California and boy, did he give me an education about a lot of things and one of them was he said we have been defunding schools for a very long time, and of course, the schools that are getting fucked. The most are the schools that serve the most under served parts of our country, and so yes, I find it very outrageous that anybody would be talking about taking money away from schools at this moment in time when they're all struggling to figure out what what school even mean now. and. Your most people have heard of Brown versus board of Education as screen court. Ruling. Maybe. But how many branches of government are there? Some of her. Without her Rodriguez versus San Antonio and this is one thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, three, supreme court ruling winds frequent said, he is just fine. It most money by cels comes from property taxes. So basically, it's just fine if the rich communities armour resources educate their kids than the forty years, and so you see this complex right of. Urgency I think of getting the Funny Stripe First Fools. Pair teachers, what they deserve and reimagined what our kids are learning schools because in back, education continue just tilt it already tilted playing deal more toward the rich. Toward the white, but not are white then. You see in a bathroom, see the blackhawks marries. The differential impact covert on black and Brown. Get some alone. You. See the educational opportunities of Africa past governor make at work of the. Family struggling to get buyers are screwed. And at some point, you just say this doesn't together and you know one of the things that you know trying to make these tangible, which is you know pisses me off and maybe a lot of other people off but. Look at shares at right got arrested. So we shoveled two dollars store. and. Totally chairs for our schools. All Arcade twelve schools in America. The total was thirteen point five. West point seven percent of the trillion. The total is minimum fuzzy number, but it's at least a hundred dern by billions. Of Tax Relief or bridges, Americans when it comes to the write offs of offering losses against you know non operative lost games, and so people making a million bucks a year or getting immediate released an aggregate one, hundred, thirty, five, million, four in a shares Zach. Ten accident over. And I about you. You know like I'm not ventured more, but I know a lot of veteran. Even you're making a million dollars mortgage and this word mutant State Development. Venture. So Talk over. But you're making a million bucks or more a year current. You're sitting a big bat history of and future of capital gains. You're probably not the highest priority task for our tax. Our. Priority in our country and attack group of. The estimate is like forty, three, thousand, super rich people will get an aggregate one hundred. Forty thousand. You know there's joint committee on taxation. We've sort of unbiased source analysis in you know it's it's not hard number, but it's pretty everybody's sort of pointing to the same meeting. Roughly forty thousand. Super well off of Americans and what just. So that I'm clear. What's the line to be considered in or out of that forty, three, forty, five, thousand in terms of income or net worth. Do you know Ted? Eighty percent. We make year W anyway and Jerry, you know the previous tap on these offering lawson was a half a million bucks, and they just blew that calf way to get to Gush Win, and so they think in twenty twenty. Yes. Mature Making nine billion notable lifetime this on your. Hundred nine billion. Congregated so. Hard I mean even I I read everything. I can't about I'm not as precise explain. TV. But but finally, memories January. Kind of. Leading arms, operating losses, things, time them just go away now, his take them all at once. and. How can it be the tax? The money is going to people making a million dollars, a year or more. All receivables. and. He like I don't. You're guy like I've been a lot of the great things. But but at this point I think we have a responsibility to say. No they feel like we're on the titanic and a bunch of are really powerful swimmers. Titans log, exactly swim safety there. But we should be the first ones. The lifeboat drawing outgrew for mothers enchants. Step back and say really did use desperately needed this we. and. That's what's happening, and so now we're right up against stars who year schools are their local as crane pointed out their local and state budgets been hammered. So many of over phases by Detroit. And then we're getting huge power mix of things. Here's what's happening right stony best in education or saying you know maybe it's time to retire. Its mission impossible. Keep telling me do more and more or less less well On. Of course, their health is potentially at risk as well. Right? Now. And if it sort of very discouraging when you're on the line and you start to to make a very important point is that? Maybe, the number Eight year olds that are dying. You know that you know only a tiny number of died. We talked before we were uncertain about the long term impact. You have. An older teacher. Or you're a younger teacher, but you're living with your your parents. I mean like there's just like the these tentacles go deep and and we people put loved ones lives at risk or their own life at risk. You know like wait like least treat me with some rich back. Then we don't. I think bringing nearly trust the respect to our teachers and we don't pay them what they deserve on site. and. and. Then we wonder why we've got a shortage of teachers. WHO WOULD WANNA be a public school elementary teacher a new public school elementary teachers starting in August of twenty one. It hazardous duty pay, and they're not the only ones. Right. And we do it to the military, and then we screw over the DA and don't give property. It's just again and again I. Feel Terrible. 'cause I sound like I'm not a Bernie Sanders popular. Are you a venture capitalist turned socialist? Is that what's going on here, Ted? I am. Pragmatic centric looking for Bowl bolden from that I think aren't mutually exclusive. You know and like those that wing of things just railed on. Anybody working to help share company was greedy whatever. And I think a lot of people working seven day weeks that are gonNA come up with stuff that Eilly league through the all that said. There's just like it just we just can't keep going. We're the people. Who are on the firing line or getting the worst deals and? You know like wait a minute. There's just a a level of. You know. Big Pig that doesn't mean you should should push yourself to the front of the Trough and pushed aside the smaller pigs I mean I do feel like when I mean, I, I, was on the National Venture Capital sociation for four years on that board and I. I. Think. It's probably dared saying I think people would agree that I was the one person saying their aspects, the capital gains tax that don't make sense. You, know you know that's a longer discussion, we could get into it but but. A lot of the people that are getting really attractive. You know tax rates are making. Now in venture, you know five, ten, million dollars a year guarantee current. But that it's like you know like, wait a minute. You know, do you really want to pass a hacker lobbying? Doesn't get rethought anyway, and I'm all four. By the way you know thresholds and making sure the employees. There's you know like we screw over employees would be start ups with with the fact that they are generally paying ordinary income way stock options or structure. But we can't keep even in that narrow sector in startup world. You know we sort of give a bad deal to the to the employee to join give a great deal to the founders and then. For Tale. That's okay. Wait, a minute, well, you and I could have congress. Could have a whole conversation around. How. In my opinion, the stock option had a material impact on creating Silicon Valley and our last twenty, five years. What what was generally believed to be a good deal in certainly a good deal for me as a young kid coming up has turned into a faulk job, but that's That's a whole other conversation. So I, just WanNa make sure I really get it. If I'm an educator or parent, and I'm grappling with a very spooky set of realities here, what I'm hearing from Tad who's studied the best schools in the country and is this VC business guy turned into this education? Advocate guy is. Focused more on. Are they learning and less on what they're learning? Try to do things. TAP INTO INTRINSIC motivation. And the thing that I was trying to unpack in my mind, and this really want to sort of see if I'm interpreting what you're saying right. When you gave the example of sort of building a website that track covert in the neighborhood or or whatever. The thing was. What I heard you say is you see kids thrive when they're? Working on some kind of a project that has some kind of intrinsic meaning to them. That's creative has some complexity to it requires multi-discipline. So going to have a little bit of a technical a little bit of a design, a little bit of a marketing little bit of a data analysis and math etcetera etcetera, and the example that you use. and so that really maybe where I should be thinking, how do I as a parent? How do is an educator use zoom use the new paradigm that were that's thrust upon us here to tilt more in in this kind of direction. This kind of Project Intrinsic Multidisciplinary Kata collaborative thing that has some kind of an outcome that the kids can point to on the one of the thing I thought I heard you say have some connection to things that are valued in I think used the term, the adult world, but I just so did I synthesize that close? Way, better than I could and. The other thing is as well. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, and so you're gonNA see a lot of people obsessing about you know like being on doom getting those lectures. The normal stuff is and if I were if I were. In a community where people were a bit risk-averse because everybody in this environment tends to be pushed more toward risk of her side of themselves. I say hey y'all like there. Lot of school, not a few, but the fact is. You, know something that's got some real traction of the genius, Todd. You know which sort of came from some of the great things with Google where they give. Twenty percent time to work on whatever you want to. So. Hey, why don't we say one day a week is totally there for student to to buy something. They're interested in and star running with it, and you know that a lot less threatening. But then let's check in three weeks later at C., which is going well, which state are World War three with. The battle and everybody ending up hating each other and? The teachers don't I can say the distance learning oxy moron. It's like teachers don't WanNa be talking dude zone. That's no fun. Students don't want to be on the other side. You know it's like nobody's really saying Oh, my God. She's great. You know it's. Generally viewed I. Think is is. Pretty. Unproductive to counterproductive. Maybe you just start with heyday week. You know and I. Actually think if you ask a kid what would you love to do? And they don't know. That's actually a great point of departure for getting that kid back on track. because. You know if the kid gets through the into their school process whether it's after twelve years, you're fourteen years or sixteen years. And they still don't know what they WANNA do or can't even think of something they loved to do or lost their willingness or interest to wait into something in the US or you know doing all the people you know like it runs. You're you're you're hoping with great podcast series is. Come up your different, you'll like the bold you are itching to do. And if the kid says nothing I, think we've let that kid down into. This is a great time to think. No. No, that's right. Okay. After you wouldn't have given them into your useful. So, thank more what you really want to do, and also is a time for experimentation. Yeah. Let's say I'm not being cheeky. Let's say I really am a Pick and h a thirteen, fourteen year old that doesn't know the answer to that question on. I'm not being sillier cheeky or whatever. About it isn't this powerful time to say to that younger person? Hey. Well, this is a cool time to try shit. So what about this? What about what about music and creative in? In what about writing and what about math and what about whatever it is? Right. There's a whole series of things. We can go try because sooner or later if you figure out enough things that you're not attracted to what you are attracted to become a lot clearer. Yes. And I, think it's important. You know. We actually have this resource called the innovation playlist and I can I can. Put it. You know on your side, but please one one of the things that we captured at school, which which would make a lot of people nervous. But but it worked incredibly well, they call it DSE. Do something cool. To It is wide open unstructured. They just say the kids on Wednesday afternoon and you've got thirsty Friday over the weekend. But do something you've been itching to do you just think would be cool but. Come in Monday and be prepared to present what you did to your classmates and your teachers, and it's very motivating pursued. Friends are going to be looking at what they did, and they talk about you know one kid wrote a book that got published. You, know several right song several at know like I would say if you do that from time to time, don't dwell on. You know like it's a song. I mean like a song can be a winner just as we're talking about rap music, do some because that's wide open unstructured. How far back lit should be set. If you say we'll take two day. Weekend. I'm betting which it's draw that. But others are more focused on an issue like I. Love. You know like history like, but but when I interview most kids who taken history and I, say, what did you learn history class? They'll say I learned I never wanted to st get. The ultimate heartbreak. But you know the interesting thing I hate to interrupt you but look how Popular Hamilton is yet. Yeah. Now, nobody said to the kids. Hey, we're GONNA talk about. American. History today. They said there's this great new show called Hamilton. It's interesting because and I I don't know. You tell me but I don't track these things super closely that thing looks like a smash hit everywhere I turn around. There's a Hamilton something. The juggernaut. But think about this, right. It's. Like I. Love My venture friend. But if somebody comes to them and said I wanNA, do a Broadway, musical on Alexander Hamilton tied primarily rap you. What do you think? Say You, gotTa be, Kidding Bat. One never go anywhere. Do. Album. You know and and yet that bold. You know we we down. This is sort of relevant. To. A lot of different circles of life. But we at one twenty years ago, I'm not active. Anymore, but we started in nineteen seventy. So we have a pretty. Pretty deep set of portfolio companies and somebody must be had the idea of lip. Look at our investment historical investment. One that we were all there and remember it's Sorta look at two things. One was how successful the investment buzz on by. The other one was. What they're, what to, what extent was there consensus in partnership when we made investment? And I think the working assumption was that the best investments everybody were confused about, and then it would kind of taper down in the ones that were like people saying I'd be embarrassed. We put our name on, that would be mediocre and and a lot of the failures you know it was exactly the opposite, right? Right. Our very best. Investments were when at least one person partnerships and that's the stupidest thing I've never heard unembarrassed. And he'll said fair enough. But I'm putting my reputation by I mean fire me if it's a total, but I believe that. And you realize has those great ideas always find the base of kind of what everybody thinks is the right way to do it, and so why don't we encourage our kids in that brought you like the idea that seems like kind of a rack idea won't work instead adult micromanaging it saying on. No, that's no. No. Don't don't do that. You know like here's something that's more. You know more likely to give it to work out. They go with Jimmy shy just as you. Give it a shot and three dates. Now, let's revisit what whether it's. But let's see what you can do and honestly somebody somewhere. I don't know Linda? Wild? Miranda. Dad and. More credit to Louise's because somewhere along the line lin-manuel said to his father, I'm thinking about doing this father instead of say. I would be embarrassed by Sunday. Well go for it. You'll like who the hell knows. This might be interesting and and you just realize that if you can't. Kids I mean, fundamentally. You either you believed in human potential, you don't. And, I, believe that human potential and I believe these kids have interests and and I get really excited when I spend time with four and five year olds because there bubbling over with interest and what people tell me you know, but you can't let kid with interests. We need to put down the threes bore eight, twelve, sixteen years of contact with this for they can actually do something with it. I. See you know. With. Hang out with the two girls love dinosaur, and let's talk about contact with this. Because he is expelled Stegosaur. These kids know everything about action heroes are injector snakes or storage figures whatever their content. Vacuum. Cleaners, and so you realize like, do we feel like the most important thing and this is so true today I think it's the fundamental. Essentially, she do care most about requiring our kids to learn something some committees decided. It's the right thing or do we care most about whether kids are learning? Do we look for books? Types of things? They Wanna read the plate of their interest in and say, great, it's just read twenty books on soccer. You know or do we say? No, you gotta read You know whatever some book. From Yeah and and you just say well now. Seems like there's an awful lot of upside particularly in this environment. Of going with what the kid wants to do and try to broaden it. Just let it be annual and it's back to the whole thing of communicating to your classmates and teachers what you did. It means that the kid says Oh something. Cool. I'm going to spend the next door days just playing video games. You know. What are you gonNA. Tell your classmates on Monday? I play video games, or that's not really consistent with the spirit here. But maybe maybe some kids you know going back in time says, Oh, I got. This is to do getting kids playing video games and they get. To Watch people. which would be probably. Dom as Hamilton but turned into twitch, try which was. Utterly somebody's a venture guy said, we're GONNA do we're GonNa let People Watch other people play video games i. Know, you're just doubling down on the biggest wave at the time I can imagine, don't you that? Well, it was a good. He reminds me I, forgetting his name now but the founder of masterclass. I think they've done such housing job he and he was talking about the early days of the idea I was listening to this on I. Think it was the Wall Street Journal's website. Anyway, what he said was the stupider people think your ideas and the more people disagree with it. The more he likes the idea and he said look nobody. In himself. And his co founders had any background in online education or any of that. They just thought. You know what? if you will, if you were going to learn basketball. Wouldn't it be cool to learn how to throw a three point shot. By being taught by Steph Curry. And there was well, you're not GONNA get Malcolm. Glad well, and Steph curry and Margaret Atwood and on and on and on an owner Aaron. Sorkin, and all these unbelievable people to teach a class in the thing that they do that you, you can't do. That's not gonNA to happen well. And so I just love that you know the stupider the idea and the more people disagree with it. Maybe maybe the maybe the. Maybe, the greater, the idea just sort of bring it full circle contract you things, right? Watson young adults. College, Seniors through early mid twenty late twenties. I I have to say, we've sort of taken the daffy out of them. You know what? I call them, go fetch a dog biscuit kids. You know like, tell me what I do to get an A. and you know how interview kids that I college seniors. I'll say, so what are you going to do next? and. Generally, it's I'm going to sign up for a bunch of interviews and Chris, serves ball pits and hope I. Get a job and my backup plan is to get a master's degree. And and I'll say you know like I'm just curious like if you WANNA create a career pathway forward right now. What would you do? and. Now we do. They not have any ideas, but look at me like wait a minute. You mean, that's an option. I mean, I could actually create a career path. Now, and you know talking to the right guy about this, right? I. Gather you blew up college entirely and and just sort of set, and those are the people I love the people that self confidence to say I. Don't need some credential, i. i. believe in myself, the people that has no. They can learn how to learn the people that just they i. see it for what it is, and it's not for me. I mean those are the people that change, but we largely prove that out of people but. out of our students, but now I, mean I'll give you an example. Right? You know we were talking about things kids can do. About this, what at the at the adult in school, turn it over to middle and high school kids and said in bet learning. Tell us how you WANNA learn this school year Kerley constraints. You know you can be at school and most a couple of days a week or not at all. You know clearly, you need interaction support with adults and need to drawn each other for community. In that talent, you know like work alone or in small teams and make us on what will work how you WANNA look. Agency. Yeah let that. If. The students say, here's what we WANNA do and we do with, they're gonNA, feel that much more motivated to make it succeed. And use like instead we're GonNa, you know? Listen the Bessie boss I mean, really. All Right Ted clearly I talk to you about a lot of things for a very long time Is there anything that you would like to touch on before we wrap? I would just say this I mean in. Sort of a recurrent theme for me. A lot of people say, how'd you get interested in education? I say you know I, I. Am. But what I'm really interested in democracy. I'm interested in a functioning civil society, and we're in this extraordinary time where we're buying by metaphor, it's like everything in. America been put under a magnifying glass. You and that what he's been blown up by 10x are doing you see him as one bullet up by ten. X, and ultimately I think. Education gives you a great perspective on. Kids that can get by and do well, bridge kitchen screwed over what we're doing to people to perform an essential role in our society like teacher administrators. and. So I think, we're it's kind of a wreck time. Right? And like the next six months gonNA tell enormous amount. You know we get this right. Which I hope we do push four and. I, wake up thinking about go to thinking about or we're gonNA keep shoveling one hundred and thirty, five, billion dollars out the door to people making a million dollars a year and bore and tell her schools were cutting your budget, but do the impossible, and if you don't do the impossible, will Yankee. Even more money out and by the way that money tied to the kids that need the most help, I, mean. I. Know How that in you know what I feel I, could it. Too many Americans come through just been. They're they're Kinda. Feel Adrift, they feel invaded. They didn't get good in twelve, fourteen, sixteen years of school. They've got a pile of student loan debt or they're looked down on because he didn't get a college degree, but they don't have skill or proficiency undermine largely been. Shaped in a way. That's not helpful. You know you can only pile up somebody adults like that on the sidelines before. You know bad things happen to democracy and. So. You know. Maybe maybe we'll look back and say this was the wake call. We need it. That's what I hope. But maybe we don't. That's what makes it. So interesting, right, and I think we'll know a lot in the next six months, not everything, but we'll know a lot. Ted You're amazing. I. Really really appreciate you coming back and sharing your thoughts given everything that's going on the transformation that's going to happen here or that is happening in front of our eyes and education. So thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Right back to you your voices in my head to listen to you a lot. But you you have the most interesting. I'll be the outlier like people listening say, yeah, everybody else has gone interesting. because. Of concerning, go that, you see people on the interesting, but you get your, you show what gauge conversation can be you you. You know you ask great questions, which is an incredible skill, but we could perfect during the pandemic with our kids. But. Most high school kids. You know the question, I hear Damascus will be on the test. So it's I'm grateful I. Think it's inspiring. I think elevates the discussion and I was GONNA walk by. Hour, and a half whatever look, you know he played his okay. I'm taking this on I'm going to go for a walk at that I that I learned a lot from that like energizes could be a a look at what it'd be point forward to thank you. You're welcome and actually if I could steal you for just a sec on this. There's sort of been this ongoing. that. I've had. As a result of starting to podcast. which is A. There was a point in history where. Being part of being an interesting. Dare I say, even important person. was being a good conversationalist. That we, there were some people who cared about. Long before smartphones in anything like that two people sitting down. Looking each other in the eye and having a back and forth. From place of curiosity and interest. And of course, we all have our opinions and beliefs and so forth, and so there can be nudging and pushing back in disagreement, which is all fine. But this notion that part of what makes a successful human being is the ability to have a real conversation. And then the other half for me is. And maybe it's because of my dyslexia and Dyscalculia and I call it. All Fuck. Leah But I learned through listening. and. I learned through conversation. I learned what you're thinking, what you've learned. I. Also learn more about what I think and learn what I have to sort of both. Articulate something to you about what I feel or think or. I try to also digest it and play it back to you to see if I'm if I'm picking up what you're putting down, and so I guess that leads all that leads me to a is why love podcasting so much. Is it possible? We're going to have part of this education breakthrough. Through an understanding that many of us. Learn. Through conversation. And Bake it totally Bolt Circle Imagine kids docket at home board not feeling all interested in being a doom as you said. Topic you care about create a podcast theory. Find people, interview and energy them come up with your thoughts and go question. Tried to get other people to watch or listen to it, get their feedback, and she wouldn't can come up with I. Mean, how much would it kid learned from that and be deported and wide open on what they picked their humor topic? Maybe, but they could be a youtube, Jerry's or something. And you just say would kissed me interesting that, oh. My Gosh, I think not every but many many kids would find it really interesting. Could you? Alicia, a lot of creativity and curiosity in that You know I'm sure I'm sure when you took this on, you had no idea where it was going to go like I'll give it a shot. You know that's the same sort of sense of waiting into ambiguity and saying you read out I've got confidence I can figure it out as I go. Yeah. But if you wrote a book about this in retrospect and said how much I learn from organizing podcast series. I, mean, off the charts, right? Oxygen. How much did people around? You weren't from your podcast series? How can that and so that kind of warning I advocate for? The student cares about. Something that helps them develop killed matter and your team technology skilled. Language Arts Guild of curiosity engagements get I mean it's a whole set of things. We know even you stop doing a podcast tomorrow, you would have learned so many important things that would-be whatever the next thing you chose to take on. You'd be way more effective in moving in that direction. And and getting that sense of the domain and purpose. From doing something than someway affected, reach the world around you. Again, you would kind of love a kid to do a podcast on. I'M GONNA do podcasts on life as a help you're working community. Or I'M GONNA do a podcast on people going to banks to get food. That's what. Most parents would say it's great. That's what I probably would have put. My kids would do. They would probably jet I. DON'T WANNA. Do that right I'm going to podcast on. It back to Jamal Bowman and rap. Going, but but I would say, okay, you know the podcast I want right now and I thought about starting it I. Just I'm not in a place where I have the time to do this. I thought what's one of the greatest things that's happened since co bid. And in my opinion there Karen Videos on the Internet. I Love Them. And by the way, there's clearly male Cairns, as well as female Cairns, the mail ones in some cases. Bail native is so yeah. They're just calling Karen's which I think. Makes it even better like this? That's a Karen. Anyway here's idea. The first. Karen Video Review? PODCAST. Slash Youtube Channel unbelievable. I would love to see somebody funny or maybe a couple of funny people do like a movie reviewer Book Review. Now. Why is this a great Karen Video? Yeah. No question I look at that, and the thing is great idea that is and it's a great idea. If we took kids in middle and high school really gave them a chance to think. That they come up with a bunch of different things, every bit as compelling, interesting that you know and and back to what you know. It's like don't obsess about the fact that you know that that Karen video would be this incredible window. into all these divides our country, right I. Mean. It would be funny. It'd be interesting. It would generate could have. Terry. You know but. Do it. Well, right. Do it. Well, that's that's the key thing with all these people that the the groups I loved that I write about celebrated. Student take on these projects. But they hold it dry standard. You know we supposed a hat project. That's not okay and you're going to get feedback from your friend. and. If it's not good, they're going to be telling you because one of the things we want is are your peers be good critiquing you? And the ultimate form of accountability. So there you go. You know like Oh my gosh, you know whether it's wrong for PA chapter story. Like a million different things. But man you know, would you be kicking yourself in? June. If you at least a lot of kids on a challenge like that, come up with a podcast series, you'd be excited to do. And then do what it takes to make really good, and we're going to be looking at the quality of it. How many other people you got to actually it regularly to that. Was a good test of whether it's effective or not. I, don't know you know just right there. It's just right there. Well, Ted I, I. I really appreciate your thinking as I said, and I think it's a powerful thing if we can. Look I know it's tough and I mean, no means WANNA put a by no means. One put whipped cream on dog shit however. Maybe, there is a way. Some of US can look at this as an opportunity to be super creative and accelerate some of the positive changes that we're looking for an education and I. Really. Hope you. I really thank you for helping to show that way. I, mean, there are people doing this and and and they're feeling a just an incredible sense of progress joke. Links and we got this video that'll be out sometimes September, than they do it I, do see behind you and I love letter code. Though you like I like the Way. To say goodbye is in my mind here. By. Midnight. Well, why don't we just say for well for now? And Not I? Thank you so much. You're awesome and please send the links asap. We're going to rush this episode out given how timely it is. Excellent. Thanks. Take care. Thanks you too. bye-bye. Well, there is the legendary Ted Dinner. Smith. And check out his great book. 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