War with Iran w/ Pete Quinones
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Autos Raider what I did I get them all in there that I miss any just my dad's like real name so okay. Well whatever you know. It's close enough. I'll get a log store. He'll he'll have a new name by the by the next time we have him on the show. What's in a name? That's that's right rose by any other name smell just as sweet. How are you brother? What's GonNa not much? Welcome back to New York City. You just got in today right well And you're gonNA stay through the Soho form debate on Monday. which can be a real fun one? Yeah yeah that's we're looking forward to that guys if view if you WANNA come hang out with us on Monday Go to the Soho Forum Dot Org get all the info that you need for the the next debate coming up so me and you both are in the were in the same hilarious situation. I listened to your latest podcast Earlier today with and you had of course the Great Scott Horton on and I did my last podcast yesterday and both of us recorded right before the huge news happens. So we put out these these episodes and by the next day if anyone's listening to it but where. Where's the big story? Where is the the big story so you know anyway? That happens sometimes. Times in these in the game that we're in it's unfortunate when it lines up like that. How about after we stopped recording? I mean it was like the same The same thing for me like is literally got a I got on my way home and all the sudden I start. My phone starts blowing up with all the text messages news. Alerts all the shit. And you're like Oh okay so something big happened. Something very big and very dangerous in the conflict with Iran and Iraq back and Hezbollah and Shiites of all flavors the Sunnis seemed to be somewhat on the back burner on this one. They're probably happy about it. Oh Yeah I'm sure so we're back to you never can tell it's like In the last fifteen years America has fought on the side of the Sunnis on the side of the Shiites. Both bowl times. We've helped out. We've we've basically been over there murdering people and handing gifts to our our supposed enemies so it's like gifts to Isis. Murdering soon is in in Syria slaughtering Sunnis and Shiites alike in in Iraq but then handing the country over to them giving around more influence anyway Of course since two thousand seven something in in that area and there was the big redirect. We've really been trying to diminish Shiite power in the region of course then the Sunni radicals who we were funding nding decided to storm Iraq start. Killing journalists. Obama did go back into Iraq to fight on behalf of the Shiites whose influence we're trying to diminish the region and But don't worry guys now. Were back to fighting Shiites in Iraq. Of course this whole thing started because we overthrew overthrew the Sunni government in Iraq. So this is it's reached levels of cluster. Fuck that you couldn't even put into a dystopia novel. They would be like. This is just getting too ridiculous at this point. Like no one's GonNa be able to follow what's going on here so that's where we are of course if you guys don't know right now it was And I know I'm GonNa fuck up the name. Sola Mani Mani Sulejmani. They um they said that it would be. I heard one person say that it would be the equivalent Villanova like killing. David portray ass- in two thousand seventeen thousand eight right and I think Daniel McAdams said today it would. It's really would be the equivalent of killing Mike Pence it's Interesting so this was like a serious high level guy who had Closer in something like this was a very high level guy who who at least it seems like there's points where he had claimed he was basically running the show of the of the Iranian military ahead of their Paramilitary group and a big deal. And this is look as you said with your example of whether it's portrayals are Mike Pence. Let's just safe to say this would be considered an act of war if it had been done to America and so now we we've done this to Iran. It was not. It was pretty much. Come out at this point that this was a targeted strike. This was intentional. And this is a dangerous game to say the least and it's the most impeachable thing he's done and he did this by. Yeah so if people want to talk about a quid pro quo any. This is something I mean. This is Obama level stuff. This is Obama with his kill list with his drones and Killing American citizens. I mean this I. I almost think that this is worse than Obama. Killing American citizens because the government's been killing American citizens forever. But I mean you're taking out somebody who's high level you know and he's not the only important in one who was taken out. I mean they took out somebody else. Who could actually be worse? Yeah he was one of the militia leaders in Iraq one of the Shiite militia militia leaders. Who We've been fighting alongside since Obama went back in calls Iraq war three which was against Isis? and Oh yeah it's it's This is look the situation in Iraq has been devolving from the you know like Iraq kind of over the last You know what is it now. Eighteen years or so sixteen years has had points of relative order. You know judging grading off in Iraq the the last twenty years curve relative order and then really descended into chaos and it seems to be on the descent already. In the last couple months there's been huge protests a lot of violence silence This is just going to be a nightmare and there's already The you know. The the trump administration has been critical of the Iraqi Shiite government Vermont for not defending The America enough and now that we're we've really pissed off the Shiites in that country. And you just think it through if all these years later I mean we. It's two thousand twenty now. We went in two thousand and three. If you if we don't even have have the Shiites on our side at this point what the hell are we doing there. We fought this whole war. Lost all these lives killed. All these innocent people killed some bad people to all to give the government to the Shiites and and now we've completely alienated them. So it's it's it's just such a mess. Yes and it's so obvious that this this whole thing has been a disaster but this is the situation as I see it and I've I've been tweeting up a storm today arguing doing about this stuff and it's really it's really depressing. Libertarians that are like championing this libertarians. Right wingers the people who I thought were getting in a little bit better about seeing through this bullshit and I'll tell you and I saw someone tweeted at me something to this effect but it's like you know as as crazy as as the left wing in this country has gotten when you see these right wingers after everything we've been through for the last almost twenty twenty years and they're just so quick to Jump Right back on the bandwagon for what would be. Let's let's look it's not a foregone conclusion that we're going to war with ran at all. The likelihood is increased from like yesterday but the idea a war with Iran would be more deadly more costly than Iraq and Afghanistan combined. Pretty much every top military expert would agree with that. And that's the reason season by the way that we haven't had this war already if we could do this thing like Qaddafi believe me around would've been gone a long time ago. And they're this quick this quick just to jump on board. It's like well. They came at our embassy. So we're fucking that's it we're we're we're going for. As Peter. Van Buren pointed out. They burleigh made it past. There's like four levels that you have to get past and they barely made it past the first the whole thing about clearing out oh essential oh personnel was cleared out the only people that are left are marines. All that is-is precaution. There was no threat to the embassy. Nobody at all I mean. I've seen video footage as oh look. They're scrambling in the Amazon. I don't even know that that's from today or yesterday. Yeah no one. No one has learned. It's just wait and get a shred of evidence before they just shouldn't say no one has learned a lot of people have but it's disappointing. How many people and I will tell you I don't care I don't care what left-winger you're talking about? I don't care if they're arguing. That some fucking serial rapist should be able to go to jail and go. Hey I feel like a woman now and get transferred to a women's prison or whatever crazy new argument they have this week. If you're a right-winger right winger who who is advocating with Iran right now. You're crazier than them. Your Lid you are. Actually you've outdone the left in crazy town. If you're you're actually going along with with the idea of another one of these wars and I'm arguing with these people and one of the the you know the cases that people you know. Are they harp on these things so the fucking NPC regime talking points. Just come out of their mouths so number one one is that Iran is the aggressor and the idea that anyone would think in the US US around conflict that there's any argument who the aggressor as and of course. I'm sure we talked about this before on the show. I know you've talked about this before on your the show but just to run down the greatest hits and this is what I said in one of my tweets as well. Let's just say Iran. You know had done it to us. Let's say in nineteen fifty. Three Iran overthrew the elected elected leader in America. Let's let's just say that's our history. Dwight Eisenhower was overthrown by the by fucking most a day or something like that and they came in here over through our leader. Our leader then Funded both sides of a war where hundreds of thousands of people die in our our country. Like you know somebody you know your uncle your father somebody you know with died because some fucking foreign power was funding both sides of the war they then put crippling sanctions on your country country for decades then they invaded Canada and Mexico and then started lying saying that we had weapons that we didn't have for decades and decades telling the world that we were developing weapons that we weren't which was the pretense for invading Canada. Would that be an active aggression. Like would you. Would you sit there and go like. Oh and then maybe we're Some groups that were associated with US had killed a few people from this invading country in Canada while they were invading leading the country. And you'd be like well. They're the aggressors. Or that's that's the situation. I had somebody on twitter today. Say because you bring up the nineteen fifty-three coup and he's like like well. That was sixty seven years ago. Take that up with Mike and my immediate response was well. Nine eleven was nineteen years ago. Back that up would Osama. Yeah Yeah. That's right right. What are you're supposed to forget about? I mean if the blowback continues I mean this is all about nine hundred seventy nine and what happened in nineteen seventy. Why did they storm the embassy of because they were lunatics? No because they were under they were under oppression from a foreign power for what twenty twenty year over twenty the years at that point. Yeah it's like you. You might do the same thing too. I mean you put. They installed their puppet. He's now the oil is going wherever the United States and England says has it wants to go. I mean come on yeah I mean and Scott Horton said it like this one's which I thought was an interesting way to put it especially for guys you know around our age but he goes so that's What was the matter met from fifty? Three to seventy nine is twenty six years so twenty six years ago today. Bill Clinton was president. Now I mean that's not ancient history. It might be to some of the twenty year olds who listen to the show or something like that. But if you're H I mean Bill Clinton was like that's if Bill Clinton didn't something happened at that time in America it's not like we're just over it by the way to your point of nine eleven. This is one president removed. There's just a few years before nine. Eleven you say nineteen years ago. I twenty only six years ago. It's not that far of a distance. So do you think in nineteen seventy nine. When they had that revolution they kind of remembered what happened in fifty three? I'm still fucking pin. It was twenty seven years. agom still fucking pissed about Waco. Oh Yeah Yeah and Twenty eight years ago was Ruby Ridge. I mean these are things that I bring up all the time and should be brought up all the time. This is not ancient history. If someone's Oh well you know really. You shouldn't bring that up and everything it's like well don't complain when the Iranians are talking talking about what what they did. What most of that and of course if you and the other thing is that you don't even have to go back that law? It's not like nothing since then. It happened it probably wouldn't be such a tense situation if nothing nothing had happened since one thousand nine hundred eighty three but look at what these sanctions have been doing to Iran just over the last decade over the last twenty years. I mean imagine you know like a imagine someone on poorer than the far far more than the poorest person you know. And they're being held there by a foreign power. Yeah of course this is going to build up some resentment so the situation situation To me is pretty clear. America's the aggressor This is C. A.. Ran For whatever reason whether it's you know just lining the pockets of the military industrial Israel complex whether it's about the petrodollar whether it's about Israel Saudi Arabia I to be honest. Think it's a mix of all of those things but they see the Iran is a threat to the American empire and this has been true for for a long time and the you know because Israel tell them a threat back to the empire is that Israel is the one who if you remember Iran Contra in the eighty S it was sell selling weapons is and like you know in that whole thing of Iran and weapons. They were giving funneled through Israel right so it's not like Iran you know in my lifetime. Iran in Israel Israel work together and then Gareth Porter says it was in the early nineties when people really started speaking out against the treatment of people in the Gaza the Palestinians. That's when they went. We need we need an enemy. We need something to distract from this. Yeah and they chosen right and it's it has been somewhat effective now. I'd be there. They're five years away from a nuclear weapon. Well that's right five years twenty years ago so they've thirty several. I saw a headline from Nineteen eighty-four. Wow so that's yeah no. It started early. 'cause I said one time when I had Scott on the show. Yeah where I was like. You know Israel's been saying since the nineties there are few years away and he goes eighties. I was like Oh actually. I didn't know that. But that's that maybe that's my age. I don't remember the ship in the eighties. But so for and just like with and this is one of the easy ways to smell bullshit with with so many of these. These war hawk. War Hawks propaganda is like so like Syria. For example where it's like okay. Well we need to go in. You know you fine fine. I mean. We find out from people like Wesley. Clark that this was a plan right after nine. Eleven to topple the government in Syria. But then all the sudden you know in two thousand twelve or whatever it's well acids killing his own people so we need to go into Syria and then that doesn't work so it's like well. There's Isis so we need to go into Syria and that doesn't work so it's like well. He's chemical weapons so we need to go into Syria and then it's like well. The Kurds are going to be slaughtered so we need to go into Syria and that well Russia's there so we need and it's always a new excuse but for the same more that they wanted all along long and with the ran the original excuse was went like this. This one held for a very long time. Okay what they said was and this was the argument meant that Iran is developing nuclear weapons. And this isn't like other countries that have nuclear weapons because because you see like Pakistan yes that's right. It does nothing. No that Pakistan has nuclear weapons and and and by the way I remember when that first came out when India and Pakistan had nuclear the weapons. Everyone was like well. This is a religious war. So they're gonNA use them. Of course none of this came to fruition but maybe nuclear weapons don't exist. Oh well that is. I've I've been presented with that argument but I heard but the argument from the neo cons was a that if Iran gets nuclear weapons. This country is such the theocracy. They're so bad shit crazy that they don't work like you and me and the rest of people who have self interest and are interested in self-preservation if they get this nuclear weapon they will use it and they've said over and over again that the wipe Israel off the face of the planet so they get they get nuclear weapons. Israel's nuked the whole fucking world is going down in a nuclear war and we can't possibly let them have nuclear weapons. This was always the original talking point and some of them will still throw it out every now now and then although that has retreated into the background. Because it's just you know they would always give these timelines. It was three years away. It was five years away. It's twelve months away. Oh Oh my God. It's only a couple of weeks and then you know it never comes true. It never comes true. I think it was in twenty. Twelve that Netanyahu humiliated himself with the DAFFY RAFFIA DOWN The road runner Daffy Duck speak to the other side and then he'd have to turn it back around and and they were all the way up to the top so they must at this point be like really related to end. Of course they went. When Obama signed the were signed onto the Iran deal? They went well now the really on the fast track back to the nuclear bomb years later. No Nuke it's always been bullshit. Pure war propaganda. I refuse to even confront people people on social media like today I was saying I have sat someone I'm like. Do you know the difference between Sunni and Shia. And it's like if they don't know the difference they Nikko. It's all one thing and every day I had some guy who was like. Oh I was stationed over there and it's all the same and I that's a judgment upon you so you don't. You don't know that there's a difference. I mean ask. Somebody asked anyone walking down the street. Who's responsible for nine eleven? They're not going to say they're not going to say Suny. No no that no. That's right. This is Fox News and the like intentionally playoff playoff that I mean they intentionally where they go. Iran is the biggest funder of terrorism. Wink wink. You know they don't think you're talking about Hezbollah they don't don't think you're talking about. They think you're talking about Al Qaeda. They you know and like and it really is. It's it's it's just pure evil borderline criminal the way they they intentionally al-Qaeda boogeyman for everything right. Al Qaeda's in Yemen. You gotTa bump. Oh Al Shabaab is with al Qaeda in Somalia Malia well now and that's so any basically any suny with a rifle is al Qaeda any Shiite with a rifle is around because our that's more more or less the way it works in the Neo con worldview all right let's take a quick second and thank our sponsor for today's show our brand new sponsor. I WanNa tell you about these guys. It's a company. Company built on Libertarian Principles from a fan of this show some very excited to have them on board. The company is called UBI. D with UBI. D You can compete with large companies like Google facebook and twitter in the marketplace for your data. 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You'll make eighty eighty percent of the prophet of when you consent to share your data with companies. This can mean as much as a thousand dollars a year of passive income in your pocket and considering this as your data Atta you might as well profit from it so right now in the episode description click the link to download UBT APP one more time. Click the link in the episode description and start getting getting paid for your data. This is such a cool idea. It's a libertarian company. Go make some money support these guys. I think this is just unbelievable. Ub Go check them out. Click the link in the episode description below. It's funny to me that The talking point which was always they. The problem is that Iran. Dan just they they will not. It's not like they know they'll get nuked back in return. But they just don't give a fuck. If they get the bump their this reckless and this this bloodthirsty Christie that. They're just GONNA go for it if they get the bomb so we can't let them have it And then of course. There's always the other after that didn't work out. There's always other reasons why we have to you. Know it's the pallets of cash and we you know the worst of their own cash but then it's then it's something about you know. Why did it have to be cash right? Well you took them off the swift system. You can't just like digitally right into that. Yeah that's actually why people still repeat the bullshit they go. There was Obama. Gave them tax EXP- payer money and it's like no one's more concerned with spending taxpayer money than me. This was actually an example of not taxpayer. Money if a libertarian is saying it's not taxpayer money it's frigging not yes. You might want to trust us on that because I care more about tax payer money than you MR military supporter That's that costs a little the tax payer money also but so the. What's interesting is that? What's become clear to any sober observer of this is that it's not only that the neocons were wrong In the fact that Iran has no self interest. What what's been clear since the Obama deal up to now undeniably so is that Iran does not want war with America? They are they are they. They have just as much if not more interest in self-preservation than any other country in the region the US doesn't want war with Iran. No I agree with any a ground war in Iran they're gonNA they're GonNa get slaughtered but what the what the what the Iranians have been working for. No I agree with both of them. Don't want don't really want this conflict. But what the the Iranians have made very clear since since signing onto the deal with Obama is. There's looks like look what we want to remove the pretext that you guys are going to use for fighting a war with us. That's what we WANNA do and for all the quotes that they bring up they'll be like they said they're going to wipe Israel off the face of the map. Scotland a great job of taking that whole bullshit apart but they said this and look. I'm sure you can't find some quotes in bluster where the Iranian government is said some things and of course you know I can find you quotes of Hillary Clinton saying we're going to obliterate Iran John McCain has Bam Bam Bam Iran and all these things but every single time I hear a high level member of the rainy in government speaking into the news media or speaking to their own state media or any of that every single time. What they say right into the camera is we don't want war with America America? We don't want this and of course they don't want this of course. Look I mean let's get real like it would be a bloody fucking war but there's no doubt who'd win this fucking war for America would win it. We would just have to suffer huge losses and particularly to strategic locations in the region because we have so many troops there there but of course they don't want this war look at what America does to all these fucking countries. We might be slowly bankrupting ourselves but we don't slowly bankrupt Libya or or Yemen or Iraq. We fucking destroy those places. We tear down nations and slaughter hundreds of thousands of people So of course they don't want it. But here's what's so fucking stupid about this this targeted drone strike and what. What just happened here is that this is the predicament you put on? It's like so in the same sense like when people talk about Kim Jong UN and they go well maybe we could negotiate with him to you. Know ease up a little bit on his own. People are liberalized the society or something like that. He can only do that so much. I mean he is himself. I mean I'm not feeling bad for him. He's fucking murderous psychopath. But what is he going to do. Just fucking lead information in and then as people slowly start eating a little bit more and slowly start figuring out that he's been lying his ass off to them for Decca. I mean he's going to end up like Moammar Kadhafi dragged through the streets and sodomize the debt by his own people. So there's only so much he can do and that's the truth with leaders all around the world pretty much every government is about as totalitarian as they can be and they work within as much as they can get away with. I mean what do you think the fucking Democrats and Republicans don't want to disarm Texas. Of course they do. They can't that's why it doesn't happen. That's why they try the bump stocks. How about this? How about you know a little bit more? You know. It's like they're always putting feelers out there. They're put what we're doing with this. Targeted strike is pushing ran to the place where look any government and obviously as me and you both a great. All governments are illegitimate. All governments are evil but the only way that governments can survive. Is They have to at least to some degree. Maintain the illusion that they can protect you from the outside of that is that is the baseline of how you justify your existence existence software. Yes yeah right you have to be afraid of something and I have to convince you that I can protect you. Otherwise why would you give up your your liberty to make so a ran gets pushed pushed into this position where it's like. Well you said this was a line in the sand for you that we couldn't cross well. They just crossed it so now. What are you going to do? So the fear is the only unreal like the the the worst thing that can happen in this situation. Is You put them in a position where they're like if we don't respond in some way to this we're bitches us in our own fucking you know what I mean like our own like. It's like if you confronted some guy with his fucking girlfriend and there's like six of you and is like a you know it's like Oh yeah your bitch got fat ass and you keep walking honey. Keep walking and you're like what am I going to do. There's like six guys there and then they fucking like slap your girl on the S. and you're like well now I have to go fight six guys and I know I'm going to lose this but my other option is I go home and I'm a bitch for all of eternity so I'm GONNA have to go out on my shield here and that's the fear is that you could push ran the it's the opposite of what the neo cons thought. You actually are going to have to push them to get them to want this fucking war that they can't possibly acidly win. So why are you trying to push them. What strategic advantages this to us? Donald Trump said today that he didn't order this targeted strike to start a war. He ordered it to to stop a war. And it's not about what this guy had done in the past. It's about what he was GonNa do in the future so what you think the Iranian influence on Shiite militias goes away now or do you think it consolidates even more it while. They're just showed who who gave him. That was that I wonder if that was him speaking for himself. Or if somebody handed him that you know I just doesn't doesn't doesn't make sense I mean no. Of course I mean it's an act of war by any definition of an act of war and the idea that you committed an act active war in order to prevent a war. I mean the silver lining of it. I guess is that maybe it indicates that trump is still on some level like now. I don't really WANNA get it into another war which the other the other aspect and I talked about this on the last show a little bit is that it is this this idea of starting a war in a re election year. I mean it's hard to talk about this situation and not think about the fact here. Let me let me actually read this because I thought this it was from an article from politico. So you know take it with a grain of salt fake news enemy of the people but they so they're going through Donald Trump's Uh Decision You know he was calm cool and collected said radio host. Howie Carr Okay so here was an interesting quote that I thought it was interesting. We had authority before the strike to take that action. said the official who wouldn't say how recently trump gave the Pentagon that authorization whether it was hours weeks or even months earlier as recently as New Year's Eve the president was telling reporters that he didn't want war with Iran Another quote I don't think it was so hard to find him because he was not below the radar in the last two or three years there's But the last two or three years. He worked in the open. This is according to a a former senior Israeli governmental official so and now continuing. We've known every minute of every day where Salaam solemnity is for years. There's there's no moment of any given day where five or six intelligence agencies can't tell you where he is. It's been one of his talking points. The Americans can find find me at any time. They just don't they are hit me so it seems like everybody's acknowledging that there was we could've taken taken this guy out for a long time. We don't exactly. How long did that trump gave this authority over to the to the Pentagon before this strike so it does kind of lead you to wonder? Well why right now. So is this what retaliation for this fucking. Nothing happened at the embassy and it's hard to not at least speculate and I don't now that there's anything to this. Just speculating but you know. Donald trump is in an election. Year is being impeached. And and historically. That's kind of the thing you do in an election year. And that's the thing you do when you're being impeached. You start a foreign conflict. You start bombing somebody body it appeases the whole military industrial complex. It appeases the whole corporate press which is nothing but the mouthpiece for the military industrial complex and then it kind of rallies voters around you like well. We're at a time of war now. And this guy's being Mr tough shot you know and he's he's keeping US safe so we better rally around him and I just wonder nder given the kind of unique circumstances that trump finds himself in whether that would actually work and I really got to think that trump if he were to start a new war I just think it would be a disaster for him politically. I just. Don't think the country as the appetite for it right now. It would be interesting to see if the left became an anti-war again again. Maybe maybe they would. I mean they certainly would be against trump's war I don't know if they'd go anti-war but they would oppose this trump debt. But the absurdity of this all is that I think this is probably more blow back on for the United on the United States part for that that contractor getting killed But the reason that contractor got killed is because the United States in Israel been bombing those five militias into the stone age for the last three months so they decided to lob some bombs back. Yeah so I mean that's what I'm sure it was like holy crap. We we got. We got Sulejmani and we got the other guy right there. Oh pump both of them. We got both of them right there because they they can't and it goes back to these militias were fighting alongside. The United States is against Isis. And it's like they turn on. It's like mm-hmm when I was talking to Scott on the phone today I was like reminds me of nineteen and one thousand nine hundred. It's like Oh yes. Saddam go ahead go into Kuwait Allah. Wait a minute we changed our mind. We don't want you to go into quite. Yeah it's like wait a minute hold on and then we'll start a war over that most likely Saudi who was Saturday's like hey we can't let them go into Kuwait. I mean it. You put yourself in a tough situation. This is the scary thing about it because like we said before it is pretty clear. That Aram doesn't want war with the United States of America and the United States of America doesn't actually want war with Iran. Either I mean certainly there are people who want war with Iran. I think Israel Israel wants the United States of America have a war with Iran. But there's too many people in the military high level people in the military who know what this would cost and they're just like look we we actually can't do this and understand. Also we don't have a draft and draft right now where we're relying on at this fucking volunteer force that is pretty overextended and is going through the longest wars in American history right now and the nation is you know pretty. Oh you know war fatigue or whatever they call it so it's so they don't want it but the problem is that like it's very very easy to start a war and it's it's very hard to end the war and when you have these situations so once you dig your heels in and you go. These Shiite militias are Iran backed militias. Okay okay so this is Iran and then you start bombing them. And you've got these troops stationed over there. Will what if one of them pulls off an attack and kills a few hundred American soldiers. Then what do we do. Then do. We have to go attack around you know. What if this is the thing where you start to see? What's really scary about this situation? Is like look just in and Syria alone. which is really a proxy war against Iran in Syria alone? You have the US you have Assad The Syrian forces you have Iran. You have Israel you have Turkey. You have Russia I mean this has the makings potentially of a World War. And we've been able to avoid that so far but these things can spin out of control. You know by the way credit to Vladimir Putin when those Russian contractors were killed a couple years ago that he didn't really you know pull the trigger therein escalate things but this is always a possibility that what can this thing can really get out of control. So it's just it's A. It was a terrible move by Donald Trump. Peter van Buren said that one thing that we really have going for us as far as not getting into a war with Iran is at the current Iot Tola has more of the kind of temperament it as like a Putin where it's like. Yeah he's not GonNa let he's not going to allow himself to be knocked around but He he no. They don't WanNa get into a war. You're not going to do anything that would cause a real escalation. You know like a nine eleven kind of young yeah. They're not going to do any well. It's weird I think about about it as something that make it look like kind of like I almost think about how like our position as people who who are or against the state that we live under where you go like look like if you WanNa make like a moral argument you could certainly argue that we have the moral right to violently resist our own government but none of us are really trying to do that because we know we're outgunned right now so you kind of try to walk up to the line as much which is you can and like. Let's build up numbers. Let's fuck in resist them. But it's like you know like if ninety nine percent of the society where an caps and then some tax collector showed up. Yep I have no problem being like what's that mister tax collector now. I don't think so but right now I'm like well here. You GO MR tax collector. 'cause we're not quite there yet and I think that's what a lot of these countries are like like. They know they have to stand their ground as much as they can but they know they don't WanNa see a mill direct military conflict with the United States of America. All right guys. Let's take a quick second and thank our sponsor for today's show which is blue. If you like sex you'll love blue and you can get them at blue dot com. Where blue offers men and performance enhancement for the bedroom at blue-chip dot com? You can get the first ever chewable with the same active ingredient. As Viagra. CIALIS chewables can work faster than pills up to twice as fast the chewables from Blue Shoe Dot com can be taken on a full or empty stomach. The online physician consultant is free. So it's cheaper than those other two and it only takes a few minutes to connect with a blue shoe dot com affiliated physician. And if you qualify you get prescribed online quickly. So there's no in person. Doctor visit no awkward conversation. No waiting online pharmacy it ships directly to your door in discreet. 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Don't don't listen to it and the last year I guess we recorded this and we were talking about an old Ben Shapiro article where he was like advocating genocide or something something like that and anyways so heavy. You're coming on. We Got Ben Shapiro clipped. So why don't we. It turns out by the way. We're wrong about everything we've been saying for the last forty minutes and Ben Shapiro. I was gonNA tell us why so. Let's start from the top. The Ben Shapiro show. Iranian forces attacked the American embassy in Iraq anti Semitic attacks become commonplace in New York City. City and Democrats. Continue to push impeachment. Happy New Year. I'm Ben Shapiro. This is the Ben Shapiro. Show the Ben Shapiro show is sponsored by express. VPN or you can skip like thirty seconds or something. Thanks to the fact that the Obama Administration decided to basically make room for the Iranians. And and now you're seeing all these members of the media all these members of the left who are suggesting that it's president trump's fault that Iranian terrorists attempted to storm the US embassy over the last us three or four days. Okay so let's pause ready already. I love the the characterization some right from the beginning just give one side of every Oreo. They just stormed the embassy Iranians right Iraq Iranians the storm the embassy. I mean they had Hezbollah flags right. We don't even say it's like Ah forget saying like you know iranian-backed a Shiite militias without ever showing the evidence that they're directly iranian-backed backed Iran Iran. Did it sure why not you know so anyway. The the other part of this is that it's like if you WANNA use this logic that a militia that's backed let's say they get some weapons or some funding from one group Nope then they're Iranian backed militia. Well then okay. Isis is an American backed of militia. Our Isis right isn't that essentially they are. They're an American backed terrorist organization. Anyway the idea that the claim that and believe me I. I'm fucking ten times more critical of Barack Obama Than Ben. Shapiro is Ben. Shapiro is never going to tell you. Barack Obama should be tried for war crimes. Ben Shapiro is is not gonNa tell you. Obama should go on trial and spend the rest of his life in a fucking sell. I know he likes to posture. Like he's Mr Anti Obama. He's not anti Obama like any of us. Are the idea idea that Obama his policy was to make room for Iran book. He made this one deal with Iran. That neo cons like Ben. Shapiro should celebrate great because for years they were saying their whole issue. Was Iran getting a nuclear weapon. So if you got a deal where it slowdown there. Nonexistent nuclear weapons program and the gave more transparency. So that it could be checked on. I mean you guys should be happy for this but actually anybody. WHO's at all familiar with Obama's policy in in Iraq or Syria wasn't too friendly to Iran wasn't too friendly at all? He was backing the fucking suny radicals in both Iraq and in Syria. So don't fucking tell me that Obama made room for Iran. You know who did make room for Iran was George W Bush. You're fucking precious Republican. George George W Bush he carved up all fucking Iraq for around okay or at least the majority of it. So you WanNa talk about making room for Iran will. Nothing thing Did that more than overthrowing. Saddam Hussein but Ben Shapiro doesn't seem to be critical of that war and neither does Israel shocking. Like he's just speaking to his those people. Yeah I mean he's just speaking to the wonder what age he has to have. When I picture? His audience is like twenty to twenty five and sixty to seventy five. I don't think there's much in between there but it's just speaking to his audience. That's all they want. This is what they wanna hear. I mean I can't believe if he hasn't said pallets of cash it'll probably it'll get it there. Let's keep lying just that. This is because of trump's harsh policy on Iran. No this is because when you appease a power Tehran their power grows and they are able to stage events like this one and this is two very different views of foreign policy. And it's something that we ought to take note of because there is this tendency inside the right to be isolated myst- as well and these use of foreign policy one suggests that the role of the United States in the world should be basically we stay within our own borders. We wait to be hit if we are hit. Then we lash out and sort of quick fashion and then retreat back inside our own borders and that the outside world has nothing to do with us and this was America's foreign policy for large swaths of time up until the beginning of the twentieth century essentially for Gross and then there's the other view which that the world has become a very very small place and what that means is that when things happen abroad. Eventually they are going line to end up as being threats to the United States and so one of the goals of the US military one of the goals of American foreign policy. Let's wash deposit here. So I love the the characterization reservation of fighting a war when you're actually threatened it's like oh you just Kinda hang out and let him hit you and then hit him back and then come home and it's like yeah. Yeah in other words. You don't fight aggressive wars. That's your life that's how you walk through life. Yes that's how a human being walks through life. You don't go to lash out the people of similar lashes out at back. It's like I just. I just walked down the street punching people in the head. And you're like well what am I gonNA do. Just stay within my own body and wait for someone else to punch me. It's he's like. Yeah nobody's saying you can't try to dodge punch if it's coming at you but you don't get to go fight wars and then this thing that goes well the world's a very small place so if there's bad things happening outside hi it's going to come in to our shores really is going to. I mean I don't Know Ben Shapiro. There's a whole bunch of bad shit happening all over the world like back pretty much. Every continent has lots of bad shit happening and it pretty much. Every country has bad shit but like really you know like you know the entire continent of Africa Africa. Lots of really bad should happening there and South America lots of really bad shit happening then Europe especially Eastern Europe southern Europe. Lots of really bad shit happening there. Asia's pretty goddamn repressive. got like some real repressive regimes over there but it only seems to be the seven countries surrounding Israel. We're Ben Shapiro. Actually chilly puts this logic into practice and wants to go fight. Those wars just interesting. Those are the ones he seems to be like. Well we gotta go fight him there. And that's the whole point of why he thinks. Iran is an enemy. He thinks Iran is an enemy. Because I don't WanNa to say he's in Israel I or but I mean he takes Israel. Israel is very important to him. Yeah so when the Likud Knicks. Start saying Oh you know. Iran's our our biggest our biggest enemy well what is he going to say. Yeah he's just going to go with it. I would just I would. Bench appears not a dummy. He's a smart guy. I would just respect expect more if you came out and said it. Just be honest. Tell these fucking cornfed Iowa fucking white boys that they gotta go fucking die. Hi to protect your Jewish state. Go explain to them that I need a Jewish ethnos state in the middle of this fucking arid desert and you guys are GonNa behalf to put their lives on the line for it and the rest of you guys got to pay for it. I'm not a real big fan of that whole thing. That's going on where they They're going after Charlie Kirk whenever to ask him questions about Israel and everything but I wish there was a forum debate to talk about this because I mean this is really important I mean they do not have the their whole method may be all wrong but I mean it is important. You need to talk about it. Oh absolutely and and you know a A lot of these things where it's like. There's a lot of ideas where there are genuine ideas that are completely reasonable to debate and you make them off limits to debate then the people who are going to be willing to debate them are often times. GOING TO BE You know jerks and those are the people people who are gonNA be like well. I don't give a fuck about social norms anyway so like and that's not even within that group. There's there's a range you know what I mean but like Yeah Yeah No. It should absolutely be a reasonable discussion whether or not we should like. We have this unique relationship with Israel and it should be it. Should it'd be up for debate whether or not this is beneficial for America to have this relationship with them. One hundred percent. You know this is what was it. Nineteen forty thirty seven that the UN declared the two state solution. Okay it's two thousand and twenty what we were not allowed to talk about whether we need to be sending them billions of dollars dollars a year and engaged in all these military conflicts. You know you're not even allowed to bring up the whole. UN resolution and everything. Yeah no no that was there. It was already all these Jews there yet like seven percent of the population at that. Oh no this is what they used to. They used to say right. It was a A land without people for a people without without land it was there was no one there it was just Jews. No one else there except seven hundred fifty thousand Muslims who got displaced and the Great Sheldon Richman Legno. Who is my partner at the Libertarian Institute? Love to point out that seems that research is pointing to the fact that those people who were there are actually the real Jews who had converted over the centuries because Muslims came in and overthrew him and said you know you don't don't have to pay taxes if you convert and they're like okay fine really. That's interesting I didn't know that we've found his book coming to Palestine which institute I have it. I have not have not talks a lot about that. And of course that's That's something you can't bring you talked about the Khazar the whole Khazar conspiracy. That most Oshkosh nauseous. How's he is or they converted over the years and that pisses people off when it kind of makes sense? Yeah okay interesting. Well so you know it's it's right and it's like what is this. You know there there. There seems to be and much the same way the left uses the the. You know pejorative racist. If you bring up any issue that they feel uncomfortable with the Ben Shapiro Neo cons of the world just call you an anti Semite if you ever question whether or not you think we should fight wars to help Israel. I mean it's like worth fighting. Here's Ron Paul Rand Paul's Anti Semite. Because he's anti the war. Yeah but that means is. He doesn't want he doesn't want to fight wars for Israel right or anything. He didn't WanNa fight wars for anybody you know. And I certainly don't think Israel's the only one who's influencing us into wars I mean Israel isn't the major influence for why we're fighting the war in Yemen right now that Saudi Arabia. You know what I mean. There's there's lots of other influences. But they're the biggest. They are the biggest one hour. Let's keep lying threats before they occur. It's to make sure that we can minimize the possibility ability of risk growing and so to take an example. There are two views that were prevalent in the United States in the nineteen thirties. In the lead up to World War and this is Shaun suggests that we're about to go to war with with Ron which we are not okay but there are two views in the nineteen thirties in the lead up to World War. Two view number one was the old sort of isolation few and this was predominant in the United States. It was the view of the of the Republican Party was view of populist like Father Coughlin it was the view of many people who suggested that the United States basically had no role in the world if there was chaos over in Europe. Well that was a that. Was the Europe problem. If there is chaos over between Japan and China that was really a Japan and China problem. It wasn't really a US problem. And then that problem started to arrive on America's front doorstep and back doorstep as it turns out and then Pearl Harbor happens now. What what's interesting about? The reaction of the United States to Pearl Harbor is that we immediately got our backup. We recognize that our role in the world had to change. Because the fact is this the United States pretty easily could come to some sort of accommodation with the Japanese that would have allowed them to maximize the regional power even after Pearl Harbor and in fact it's possible. That's what the Japanese government thought was going to happen is that the United States was not going to go to full-scale war with Japan Pan even after Pearl harbor because `isolation sentiment was so strong and so they felt like okay. We'll hit them then. Maybe they'll back off. That's not what happened. The United States got its backup and instead the United States dates ends up defeating Japan and occupied Japan for the next eighty years. The United States does the same thing with regard to Germany. The America America's role in the world fundamentally changes because we recognize after World War. Two that there is no more of this. We can retreat within our borders and everybody will leave us alone all right well. That is worse. So what a Shocker Ben Shapiro Went to World War. I've never heard one of them. Make the World War Two argument before you know that that one is is brand new to me. Hey Ben now world war one no I mean when you do a great job with World War Two now explain World War One to me. Why was it that is a tendencies? Were so prevalent in the country because we had just I fought a world war for no fucking reason we just went off into the biggest were at the time in human history. Were you know ten million people get fucking killed and the lines of the maps get redrawn. Exactly the same way so of course people felt like yeah. Why do we give a fuck? If Europe is having a war. Why do we care like why would anyone care? And yes of course that was the attitude and then we realized that if you don't be because World War One never happened. Evidently so the lesson of World War Two is that we you know. We realized that if we don't go around the world fighting wars they come to our doorsteps. Just imagine you fight the biggest war in the history of humanity and that leads directly to another war. That's even bigger than that one. Okay so you have the World War One we get involved we smash a Germany made them sign. The Treaty of her side destroys the this crazy Weimer republic system where they have to take on the entire entire ward. I forget the numbers I think they would have been paying off till the mid nineteen eighties if they had a like stuck out the treaty oversight and weren't they like the fourth country three to enter the war and they like took all Germany had to take all the fucking blame. which was it was ridiculous to argue that the first World War was all German? As you wonder how if someone like Hitler is up and then you have you have the you have the Bolshevik revolution you have the Nazi revolution and now the biggest war in the history of the world world and then just a few years later you have to fight and even bigger than that and your lesson is what happens when we don't fight wars. This is what happens when we stay out of wars. It's great if you just just start at that point you start pick whatever point you want to you. Know it's like I punch someone in the face. And then they go to wind up and throw a punch back. But I'm going to start right at the wind up and go. This is what happens. When you don't punch people enough they just start punching you like? Yeah ruin the story a little bit so this is by the way the World War. I think it's all a fucking myth. It's like okay. It was all fucking continuation of World War One the there's actually a lot of evidence that fucking the FDR was tipped off about Pearl Harbor and basically didn't do anything about it aside from that it's like so then we you know so then. We were able to defeat Japan and Germany and we occupied them for many decades. And it's like right okay. You're kind of skipping over a little bit of a bloody point in the middle of that and also before that we Salat heard mass slaughter of civilians women and children. I know it's like we're only supposed to care about about the people who died on the other side of the war. But you know a whole bunch fucking Germans and Japanese the same way you know. There's people like me and you who aren't particularly fond of our government policy. There's whole whole bunch of fucking like kids who was just fucking seven year old boy. He he didn't have anything to do with fucking. You know what I mean like. Whether or not the fucking Hitler decided to annex Poland. You know what I'm saying. Then he's just some fucking kid and he gets burned alive wars against civilians which actually was not the norm for the hundred years before for World War One humanity had somewhat advanced out of wars that targeted civilians and with brought us right back into it within of course we nuked cities. I didn't have. I have been told that we didn't nukes genukh. Cities firebombed Tokyo after the war in Europe was over after there was no threat anymore and then we occupy these so you skip that part also skipped the part about how we sided with a more murderous dictator than Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin and handed over half of Europe to him for him to fuck an occupying. Go onto fucking do all types of horrible things to the people that he controlled. They're so skip all of that part but even if you were to give the World War Two analogy to them it's like okay so do World War One now do every war since World War tale so even if you had had one which you don't even have. This is the argument back to World War Two. Everything's Hitler okay. So so that's why we have to deal with Iran because much like the powerful industrial Germany Iran is also going to take over the world. Well you also have the Korean War the Vietnam the Vietnam. I'm war in this. Oh we have to stop the stop. The rising tide of communism the the wars in Latin America for the same thing. It's like well. Maybe if you didn't take their side Great World War Two Maybe would let the Nazis and the and the Soviets kill each other which they were going to do I had John Denson on on my podcast. And the title of the PODCAST is did the United States to fight World War Two and he's friends with the muses institute I mean he's responsible for the reasons to being an Auburn Alabama and he just ran down at he's like look they didn't have to fight this war. These guys we're GONNA kill each other. They were just going to you know it would have been a slaughter. Her and there was really no American interests to get in that war at all It's it's great. It's great to listen. I think episode three. Oh one of my podcasts. And it is just. He is so amazingly way just Breaks it down because I mean it is history and Just to talk him up a little bit judge Napolitano Latino said that Jon Benson is the greatest historian of twentieth century war. That he knows and John's is not a historian. He's a judge so yeah that's pretty incredible. Well yeah I mean it's just you know and then of course the idea that and this is the view of the the progressive. This is why you know when Michael Mouse. And he's not the only one who has made this observation but the idea that conservatives are progressives driving the speed limit and that's who the Conservatives is like Ben Shapiro who are within the fucking you know accepted mainstream narrative. This is what they do they basically go along with the kind of you. You Know Progressive View on things which is basically that if anything happens that's because we we learned a lesson and Prague and we progressed okay. So it's like this is always this is what of course the Great Murray Rothbart who was to me the best Historian at kind of revealing stuff and going through and showing you. What actually happened? But I've had this before where I argue with with progressives and what they'll say they are things like if you talk about regulation in the economy. It's like well. The fact is right that we used to not have this regulation and we have it now and how they I take that as well. We tried not having this regulation and then we realized we need this regulation and so we started this regulatory Ori Agency. That's basically the the idea of history that it's always been if it happened. It's because the right thing happened and therefore we we. We looked at the situation. It was and the people this collectivist that people decided that it was better to have this regulation and what we Rothbart pointed out in his book progressive error. Is that if you actually trace any of these these regulations that happened. It's never that there's this like popular uprising amongst people just decided. Oh we need to regulate this industry. What it is is that it's lobbied into existence? Lobbyists lobby the government to to use the government in their favor. It's not just because it's happened doesn't mean it's right that and of course this is how Ben Shapiro view of war so we used to kind of be be isolationist but then we realized that we were better off if we engaged in the world. When exactly did we realize this? When exactly did we realized this? I mean Eliot around the time built the Pentagon right right around the time the Military Industrial Complex Gary became very important so the true story. Is that the military took over the fucking country and we became the world empire. But there's no evidence evidence of win. The people of America decided we realized realized empire. I mean you go through it. Ron Paul used to point this out all the time. Go through all of the candidates I mean even Lyndon Johnson when he was fighting the war in Vietnam the way he beat Berry Goldwater was. They said he's going to drop the bomb that was the whole campaign against Barry Goldwater. He's going to drop the bomb so you don't WanNa go with this guy because then we're gonNA end up nuking people. And then Richard Nixon wins promising to end the war in Vietnam. Of course he goes on to escalate it before ending it. But that's what he ran on and one on every single and you can go through it to George W Bush no nation building no policing of the World Barack Obama. We're going to end all these wars in my first term. Donald trump trump. We're GONNA end all of these wars. Where exactly was this popular uprising? That we WANNA be the policeman of the world. Let one politician stand up on stage and say I I think we should fight wars of aggression and be the policeman of the world and involve ourselves in nation building and show me the poll numbers that he gets for that. 'cause you know Lindsey Graham ran for President Jeb. Bush ran for president. What did they do did they get one percent between the two of them? I don't think they did you know so. But that's the progressive view. You of how things always go that if it happened. It's because if the government does anything it's because there was this popular uprising and they decided what we tried it the other way you know we tried not fighting wars of aggression didn't work out so well we gotta fight wars of aggression. Of course there's a million questions. That is Ben Shapiro. Philosophy would lead to like okay. Well when do we decide who to fight a war of aggression against I mean like I said if you're saying what dictators okay what how. How many states in the world have dictators right now? A few hundred. Are we going to go after all of them. What is that when someone's oppressing their own people like what is it or is it just if you're a country surrounding surrounding Israel who doesn't have nukes is that because that seems to be more like I would actually plays out and of course the the other thing that he completely misses is that The the idea of blowback which is kind of central to all of this that actually has the reverse effect and that when America you know before before World War Two as he was saying when we had that whole isolationist streak which we weren't that isolationist. We were a lot more than we are. It's was very Iceland right. Yeah you know. We always meddled settled around Particularly in in Latin America but if a to be fair we were more non interventionist before World War tail. And why aren't we dealing with all these Muslim terrorists fanatics back. Then I mean. Why weren't they like bombs existed? Why weren't they strapped to their chest? Why did Syria vote to have America America rule over them after World War? Two like why I mean. Why did they like us over there? Why is it not until the creation of Israel until we side with Israel Israel until we put our military bases there until we starve the children of Iraq to death that then we deal with Osama bin Laden? I mean if you're telling me it's if you're telling you mean when we're non interventionist the threats bubble up and then come over here. Shouldn't it have been worse then than it is. Now since we've been way more interventionist if you're telling me it's just radical Islam did did did the religion of Islam get radical in the last couple of decades. I think it's been pretty much the same thing for for like you know hundreds if not thousands of years they they hit us for our freedom. Steve yet there you go there. You go play a little more of Benny boy over time and every so often reminded of this nine eleven. We were reminded that we can leave the Middle East alone. We can basically have a light footprint in the Middle East we can say that region of the world has not not much to do with us and that will not stop terrorists from hating us and wanting to attack us in wanting to kill American citizens and again there are two ways military response. I mean we we can have a light footprint except when did Osama bin Laden a really get radicalized I mean are light footprint involved Military bases in in Saudi Arabia. It involved a bombing campaigns in Iraq full UN blockade around the country. Three of Iraq. It was I mean. Come on when we increased our footprint in there that we started dealing with terrorism the relation is undeniable. And you you know it's like he said it in a letter to America. Yeah and what's funny is people are like well you know. In that letter he also mentions Women in this immorality rally and everything. I'm like yeah he's just using that to to rally the you know the radical the more radical people to well. Of course I know I agree with you on that. To even part of that is in a sense America imposing their will on that part of the world. I mean right so like somebody like this where they show these pictures of like women in mini skirts in Iraq under the Shaw and low. I'm sorry in Iran under the Shah. And then when you know there's the Iranian revolution. They're they're like oh well look at them now and it's like Yeah Okay I. I don't think that's great but you know the the libertarian and me isn't really saying we can go tell everybody how they're going to run their are fucking their country and also it's like well. How does that play to the radical Islamist? He's like Oh look. You used to have women in mini skirts. When we've fucking enforced our rules on you? They're like we don't want that shit so what you'd want to do is have some you know. Let them kind of come to their own conclusion and hopefully realize freedom to wear. miniskirts scores isn't the worst thing in the world. But like yes so okay so we threw that in there too. But do you really think women in miniskirts would be enough to fucking rally people up to it to go want to fucking blow themselves up killing people or would it may be you know if they've seen their family slaughtered. That might help a little bit more. You know it's interesting though is I know a few people from Iran. And they're the nicest people I've ever met. And then if you talk to somebody who has been Iran. Iran who doesn't have an agenda doesn't go there would have preconceived notion they talk about how they're just the nicest people I remember Anthony Bourdain talking about how they were. Just everything that he had been told about. The Iranian people was just completely wrong and they do have like nightclubs and shit like that. There's a whole like underground culture where they don't fucking listen to the Goddamn government and you know what I mean. It's like he you know again. You can think of a lot of things that kill rules here. They don't kill like Gay People they like. They actually have I. I learned this about Tehran and it blew me away there. The plastic surgery capital of the world and one of the reasons they do it is because if they find out one of if a family member finds out someone's gay they try to convince them to have a sex change so that yeah. I didn't know that is is pretty interesting stuff going on that. Yeah it's but yeah I mean like I have a really good friend who's from from Iran and everything and he doesn't WanNa live there and everything but you know he's he doesn't have the most horrible things things you know. He doesn't have all these horrible stories. And everything and especially about the people you know. And that's that's the problem is and I know this is really fundamental but associated with the people of the country with their government is just just the worst man. I don't want to be associated with this government. I don't want people to think about what I've traveled outside inside the country and people start asking me questions and everything like the first person you know. Even this was twenty years ago I was the first. WHOA wait a minute? WHOA WHOA WHOA? I'm not my government. Yeah I'm just here for peace. I'm a peaceful person and you know I'm here for commerce. I'm yeah we're GONNA have some drinks and everything like that but People Forget forget and it's so easy and they demonize them and it really started with Russia. Yeah demonizing the people of Russia because of their government. Yeah yeah no absolutely and then of course you see like with with the Soviet citizens even after what was it seventy years of Soviet rule they. I still work as soon as they got the opportunity to break that thing up they were ready to do it. They were happy to tear down that wall and start dancing in the streets with the people of West Berlin Berlin. It's because they were suffering that East German Stasi made porn. Did you see that months ago. It came out that like porn in East East Germany was made by the Stasi really. Oh really and I'm like I'm pretty sure I can find that somewhere more online but I really don't want to. I'm GonNa Pass on that one. Well yes okay yeah. I'd be tear down that wall to that situation. And it's a free freemarket porn but it is like you know and of course you'd know that from from living here it's like obviously different. Different cultures are different. But but the idea that anybody would be completely associated with their government and and we live under suppose a democracy I mean in Iran. It's not even like they're they're getting a real. I mean maybe they get a vote. But it's like it's even more of a sham election than ours are GonNa really like the people that are selected to be allowed to run the anyway anyway. Let's play a little bit. More of the Ben Shapiro. Show bonds to events like this one is that in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor which killed on the order of of two thousand Americans that in in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor America entered a war in which two hundred thousand American were killed in World War Two was that a disproportionate response. Yes in some mhm ways I think there are some isolation are yes pat Buchanan for for example a sort of argued yes get the same thing has happened in the aftermath of nine eleven. There's the argument that was made that they yes. They killed three thousand of our citizens. But then we've been involved in wars that have killed more American troops than that more American troops have died in those wars but this fundamentally mistakes the role of the American military and the role of of America in the world and that is the American military people sign up. It's particularly now as he volunteer military. These are heroes. Who are signing up to defend America's freedom they're not signing up in order to be paid to sit at a base in Georgia? That is not why they sign up and to treat them as children to treat our soldiers as left likes to do as sort of pawns and political games. Where air anytime somebody says? We need to US troops to defend our embassy in Baghdad for example then lots as well. How many troops are you willing to risk? Wasn't that's a fine question but it's not a fine question if you do it every single time we talk about using military force independent right there say are ponds Ben Shapiro says that if you ask how many troops you're willing to risk which he and then even catch themselves and look that's a fair question to ask put to ask it every time. Yeah Ben WE'RE GONNA ask it every time every fucking time you ask. How many any of our young men are you willing to fucking sacrifice for this mission and then you have the nerve of saying? That's the left using the troops as pawns. You are quite literally sending them in as the definition of Ponce. This is what you do with Pons. Yeah that's the whole point of Poland's orange you can sacrifice them ever noticed the people in the press. People like Ben Shapiro. That are most happy and exuberant exuberant. To Send men into harm's way or the ones who would never do it themselves. Never that that article that we talked about when I was on your show episode you just recently shared. That was an article from Ben Shapiro. He was of age to go join the military and it was ten months after nine in eleven and he had plenty of time. You know it's like I think I was recently talking with the bird from friends against government and I was like after after nine eleven. It was like after a week and a half. I stopped being upset. You know I got my mind back I got. I got my composure. Back and everything like that. Ten months later he's putting putting out these articles about how just kill civilians. Who cares just bomb everywhere? It's like the can you call someone at the CIA eight to learn about blowback. I mean that was a term. It was already there right. Yeah it's like I mean come on. Don't you understand exactly what you're doing. I mean forget about the whole morale forget about about the morality of it for a second. Just how many enemies are you trying to make me Scott Talks about in the book fools. Aaron that when when McMahon when McMaster was on the ground in was it McMaster who who is the general the one that trump had. What is it might have been mad? Mattis Yeah Mattis was on the ground there and there was like what four hundred members of al Qaeda they were trying to kill you and it was and then they let they dropped that That daisy cutter and got a bunch of them and everything but then they escaped into the mountains opens and everything like that and they could and mattis calls and goes yeah. Let's go. Let's go after him now. Extend down come on what do we do. You WanNa talk about pawns. Those people there those men there that they were the biggest pawns. And it's just ridiculous and it's not even I mean you know and the the idea that they're I if we don't like if we don't And Scots made this point to that. If we don't like occupy Afghanistan. The problem is that you know if we retreat. Then they'll just plan another nine eleven from Afghanistan as if there's something so special about Afghanistan the German from Europe it was legal immigration of how they got in they had visas to come in so like I mean this whole thing is like it. It's just absurd and of course you know Ben Shapiro's talking about how because it's funny that he mentioned because it's a volunteer volunteer army you know. They're all heroes. Even though World War Two was his great example which wasn't exactly a volunteer army But you now is the volunteer army and I will not have you use them as pawns by questioning whether or not we should send them off and the idea that so that these soldiers join up. They don't join up to go. Sit in a base in Falcon Georgia or something like that. It's like yeah I'm sure why don't we let them voluntarily voluntarily pick. Why don't we let the soldiers voluntarily pick whether they get stationed in Germany or and we'll see I mean some of them? Bradley actually do go because they WANNA fight and see action all bunch of them are going for like the benefits in the shit. They're getting bribed into this four and they'd be just fine to go chill. Yeah my my cousin joined the army at thirty four and he became a cook. They sent him to Afghanistan. And guess what he was doing. Two weeks into Afghanistan tour. What's that he was out on patrol? Yeah Yeah Yeah so yeah. Join the military very be a cook you know be a chaplain or something like that. Don't be surprised or you know the worst is i. I don't know if people realize this. I had a a former coastguard guy on A. Ah podcast yet. He was fighting Somali pirates. Now in the coastguard. What coast does he protecting right? I don't think a lot of people realize realize that that the Coast Guard was sent over to fight Somali. Pirates part of AFRICOM. And it's just you know the idea that at at it's not as this is being said like in a vacuum this is said in today's world after fighting the longest wars in American history. And we're all over the place I mean we've fought wars in you know since nine eleven Afghanistan Iraq Libya Syria Yemen Somalia in Pakistan. I mean all over the place where there's military strikes missing a few Niger. It's like all over. The place is financing and training and soldiers to go into Somalia Al Shabaab and every last one of these. I mean we have nothing to show for a single one of them. So it'd be one thing if you're talking about like well you know if you're like well you know I mean hey we lost a couple thousand people here and then we've lost thousands more since we had these wars but is that just proportional well. Pat Buchanan would say yes but you you know. I think it's not the role of American foreign policy. It's like okay. We'll what are we sacrificing those guys for. Just please explain this to me. What is it that we're sacrificing advertising? I mean there's more radical sooners who want to fucking kill us now now there seems to be more radical Shiites who WANNA fuck and kill us. Which one of these countries is better who we helped? Who have we made safer in the world? Can anyone actually argued that were were less likely to deal with terrorists. Because Gaddafi Veep and Saddam Hussein are gone. The were more likely to deal with Let's just play a little bit more because there's another part that gets pretty good in this and buy American assets abroad so we have to decide what we want America's role in the world to be And also we have to be realistic about the fact that if America retreats from certain areas of the world other forces takeover if Veron takes over Iraq of FRONTEX over Syria Iran over Lebanon and FRONTEX over Yemen that has significant ramifications for America's foreign policy not just in terms of the economy and shutting down the streets. WHO's but but in terms of actual security policy? The fact is the Iranian. Government is the chief sponsor of worldwide terror on planet earth. Right now if the Iranians let's take over the region that maximizes Russian Polish Russian. So here's the here's what's funny. Why would they close the Strait so her moves? Well yeah I mean it's just yeah that's that's the big threat that they could close this fucking straight of Hormuz even though they've never done it a theoretically if they could then why wouldn't they and of course as we've said before we go well you there's a vacuum If we go over there and then Iranian power could come into that vacuum taken over. It's like look by the way fair enough to say they're even meth. Scott calls also safety but there is something to be said for the fact. I don't completely disagree with the idea that America is exerting power in lots of different areas and and if they leave somebody else will most likely exert power and a lot of those areas. I'm not expecting them to become Rothbart. Anna Capitalist States tomorrow so yes somebody else is going to exert power there however if we topple regimes somebody else also exerts power there. And that's how Iran got all of this influence in Iraq Iraq. To begin with so you at least start by saying man we got this Iraq war. Completely wrong I mean if you can't admit that that's crazy but this fucking Fox snooze rush limbaugh talking point that Iran is the biggest sponsor of terrorism in the world. Just guys next time anyone anyone says that to you answer in one word receipts. I need to see the receipts on that. I know you make this claim a lot. I know you like to throw throw this out there. Number one sponsor of terrorism in the world show me in what world Iran has has sponsored more terrorism than Saudi Arabia use rail and America cutter you a hotter. Please show me show me what world they've sponsored more terrorism by the way we've fucking sponsor more to the United States federal government sponsored more terrorists than around and way more effectively. Okay is air force really. We're sponsoring them right now. Now as an Israel Turkey on that list too was Aranjuez. Gets this this credit and like nobody's ever nobody's ever pushed to go like this. Show me the evidence. The evidence that they support more and the only person who during that whole thing where they're like. Oh we're worried about the Kurds. Because Turkey's I think I was the the only person going if there are NATO ally don't you just get him on the phone and say you guys stand down a little bit while the funniest thing about all. That was such a great argument. Meant for just the fucking absurdity of NATO so you go oh my God. Our big concern is that Turkey's going to slaughter the Kurds and you. Do you realize that if the Kurds heard you say that and attacked Turkey. We have to go to war with the Kurds in defensive Turkey because because there are NATO ally and that's what NATO is. It's a joint defense agreement. So this isn't it this at the very least argument that Turkey shouldn't be in NATO like at the very very least we now know a historic institution have to keep the institution so you know for institutions sake. And I've heard a lot of people like shed shed on Chomsky because they say oh Chomsky's blindspot is Turkey will Turkey's fucking evil man. Turkey is really evil Turkey of course was in in with the US Saudi CIA is real plan of arming Isis. That was that was all of them together But the other thing the other element to this that I think is really funny. Right is that and this is I guess. Just back to the pure anarchy capitalist Philosophy stuff. Oh you're gonNA some people in the group that yeah well I sure well but well fuck them. This is an an cap. Show deal with that. But so so the definition of terrorism more or less is Acts of violence silence for a political purpose but not if a state does it but if Iran doesn't so Iran is not only the sponsor of terrorist understand understand what everybody in the in the corporate saying Donald Trump just kill the terrorist. Donald trump just killed a terrorist. But he was a state actor was Wedeman. How come he's not shielded from this terrorist label? This guy who's working directly with the government of Iran not not working with the government or is a member of the government of Iran. Okay so why does he can hold on. If we're taking that shield away which is just an imaginary fucking shield the idea that when a government does it if the US military terry does it. It's not terrorism but if Hezbollah does it it is why by the way has got some fucking political control in inside Lebanon. I think they still have some representatives presentative there that are that are official has so they get off that list now too. I thought once because if you're gonNA take that shield away and now all of a sudden being state state actor doesn't protect you from the the charge of being a terrorist will now. Who's the worst terrorists? Now is the worst terrorists since you're great world war. We're to Ben Shapiro. WHO's killed more people abroad? How many how many does Iran have on their track record? I'm just asking a simple mathematical medical question. How many innocent civilians has Iran killed since nineteen forty five and? How many has the United States of America's military killed since nineteen forty-five because spoiler alert ours is in the millions? Like you know what they'll say what he'd say is he'd say that Iran has been sponsoring answering terrorism all along so every life that's lost in Islamist terrorism is on Iran. That's right it's all on at like you said receipts. Yeah prove it. Prove it just because you say this like it's a statement of fact so I would just like to see the evidence. Thanks for that. And we have proof that about Saudi Arabia and everything the The whole Justa where they were going to allow American Americans who lost people in nine eleven to sue people in Saudi Arabia especially the ones that they finance nine eleven and everything and then it was. It was shut. That was shot down. which would have opened up a can of worms about how many Muslims can sue America? Yeah right yeah yeah. Yeah which is an interesting idea of greatest. Shut everything down. Of course the problem with going after Governments for for you know money is that governments governments have no money. They just have tax cattle and fucking. Those people didn't necessarily do anything to you at all. And so you just end up is basically somebody somebody else is GONNA get robbed. So there's no real way this is one of the worst things about the state. There's no real way to get justice against the state because they don't have anything they just have what they steal from their people. Well yeah they they steal from us and then when they fuck up and have to pay something out they steal from us to pay it out to pay out there damages right. Yeah no no. It's really it's really something but this this idea that Iran is is the you know the great sponsor of terrorists. Well look I mean again. Then what Ben Shapiro's clearly concerned with here is Israel and he gets to at some point. We're not GONNA have time to play. But at some point he basically says it But it's like okay Hezbollah Hezbollah look the same. Scott Horton said this to me once and it really changed forever like my my perspective on these things I realized he was right and we were talking about Iran. I think a couple of years ago and I had on and we did a show about Iran and I was just like this is just so ridiculous and I was. I was kind of saying some of the old Ron Paul lines that he used to use at the debates bates which were amazing. Now it'd be like a ran like everyone's talking about Iran using a nuclear weapon. He goes does not have a nuclear weapon and they don't have an air force capable of delivering a nuclear weapon to us. This is all a made up conversation and he would say. Iran is an oil rich country. That doesn't have enough gasoline for their people. This this is how backward they are compared to this is no threat to us. There's there's no threat like and I was talking to Scott about this and I was like how. How can these people pretend that Iran is the number one threat threat? The idea that Iran poses a threat to the United States of America is so laughably absurd and he was like yeah because he goes. But Dave. That's because you're looking king at it as a threat to our nation. But that's not what they're talking about their thing. They're threat to America to them means they're a threat to the empire empire and in that sense it's kind of true in. That's it from that perspective. They're not wrong. They are a threat to US ruling the world they're the threat to US ruling. That part of the Middle East us the federal government not me and you But in the same sense Russia's a threat because they're not they're not under. US hedge hegemony. They're not under. US control so in the same sense and in this sense Hezbollah is a legitimate legitimate threat. Hezbollah is a legitimate threat to Israel's ability to occupy southern Lebanon. They are not the same person. You'd be like yeah but what Israel isn't a right to fucking occupy southern Lebanon. They're not a threat to Israel the nation. But that's not what they look at it as it's the empire so that's where they go. They sponsor this terrorism resum like Oh my God Hezbollah attacked Israel in southern Lebanon when they were occupied. Kick them out. It's like okay. That's their big crime. As they won they fucking drove out of Lebanon. So they fucking so that. But if you're in America if your concern is the nation of America like who can actually attack us over here well okay. Hezbollah's never posed a threat to us at all. We have had some countries really now. We have had in issue in America. Gotcha with to terrorist organizations. That legitimately have attacked us in the West and inspired attacks in America. The two are al Qaeda and Isis. That's it both suny both radical both funded and armed by the United States of America us with our tax dollars so you WanNa talk about sponsoring terrorism. Sorry look in the mirror and then your other precious country Israel Ben has also sponsored those guys so sorry sorry this Iran Shit is all bullshit and let's hope we don't fucking go to war with them. Goddamn the problem with the Ben Shapiro's the world is you know we've talked about this before. Is that for somebody who hates identity politics abby his whole identity entity is wrapped up. I mean he never takes the cough. I mean it's his whole identity is Jewish and Israel. Oh yeah and it's just and you know like Ron Paul. He's always saying that. Ron Paul and pretty much anybody who speaks out against the relationship which I don't even know what it really is. I mean I can ponder what the relationship between Israel and the United States is but he. He always says anybody who criticizes at his anti Semitic right and and he's gotten to the point. I mean really like racist what is anti Semitic mean anymore. Yeah I mean Semitic Eric is includes the Arab so technically he. Doesn't you know it's just a pejorative to shut people shutdown. Just yeah yeah I mean it's like what is it that that's what I was saying like with the term racist. It's like what is it even meet like. Are you saying you want to like take black people shit or you want them enslaved or you want them like four segregation by the government or you saying like you don't like them or you say mean things because those are pretty different you know or or maybe it's not even any of that. It's just that you're like I don't believe in affirmative action you know it's like it all of that. All all of that gets like literally from. I think we should fuck in like ethnically cleanse you to. I don't believe in affirmative action all falls under the banner of this term racist and you're like those are wildly different things but they range from evil to correct and they all fall under the banner of this one word and anti Semitic again and falls. It takes the banner of we should throw them all in ovens to. I don't believe in foreign aid. And that's all under the banner of anti-semitism and after a while someone calls you these these terms and I've been called both of them and it's like what does this mean because this is the term is so broad that it means nothing nothing and again there's like and then it's like well you're racist anti-semitic it's like well I'm very against the evil half of that you know like I'm against all that Shit over here on the evil side but over on the reasonable side. I think we should probably talk about that. So it's all it's all God damn joke all right anyway. It's always fucking great. Always great having you on so people can read your stuff at the Libertarian Institute Dot Org C.. My name up in the masthead Freeman me on the wall. PODCAST Got An episode dropping on Monday with the holidays and everything I was doing Episodes that were all released. The episode from a couple years ago that we you did and I did. I released today an episode where somebody else was interviewing me on their show but Monday episode. Three Sixty We're going to be talking about gun grabs. 'cause you know everything about Virginia and they're going up we're going to talk about. The most important gun grabbed that most people don't know about in US history. And that's wounded knee the massacring of Indians because they didn't want to give up their gun. Yeah and We're GONNA that's about seventy minutes of history of the Indian wars is and I'll also. Yeah so you've got a guest on. I know I have a guess Matt. Free Matt Freeman from the status quo. PODCAST he's re. What a story A to go? He was in Iraq. Soldier in Iraq came home. All sorts of problems got hooked on. Painkillers started dealing painkillers. Killers did three years in jail. Jay came out totally turned his life around and his podcast is he talking about receipts. He brings as the receipts for everything he talks about. An awesome is going to be amazing So just that and Libertarian Tude. We had a big fish step up and say the next twenty thousand dollars that people were doing the fund drive and then the next twenty thousand dollars that people donate will be matched by this one person also Yeah we're we're in. The process of that Libertarian is due dot. Org you open ended up. You'll see it. Never returning institute is literally one of the most Just incredible websites on the planet a great organization. I literally go to the website every single day. So I highly recommend that Freeman beyond the wall is one of the best podcasts out there so please go check that out. I was pledged brother. I always love a having conversations with you and if you guys I wanNA come hang out with us. We'll both be at the Soho Forum on Monday. So form is always a good time always a good time brother. All right. That's our show for today. We will be back on Monday with brand new episode piece.