MMISWP Mini-Episode: Who Killed JonBent? (Featuring Sue Smith)
Hey, guys, welcome back to mother Maze Super podcast today we are doing who killed. Jon Benet for those of you who are not familiar. I am obsessed with this case. This is probably the first crime case that I got really into. It was the middle of summer and I couldn't stop reading tabloid magazine Zimbabwe I would take my money and go straight to the store every single week and pick up all the new tabloids, so it's a huge part of my life in some ways and today we have agreed gassed sue Smith from scam while. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to talk about Jon Benet. Yeah I know I love her so much. What's your personal relationship with this case? On my God so of course I it happening when I was a kid, but then like. Three years ago when I got married sixty minutes, documentary came out like right after I got married when we were on our honeymoon. Made my husband pause everything so that we could set the time aside to watch documentary with. Varner spits. It's so good and. Yeah I I kind of know a lot not to brag. Right I'm glad because yeah I watched all of those when they came out to. I mean it's never settled. This case is just never settled well with me in any way. And why should it right I mean? This? Little girl was murdered in her home on Christmas. On the night of Christmas. Leg Her. There's all this mystery surrounding it I I when I first started taking information about this case like I was a kid. There's so much so as an adult rewatching in rereading all this stuff. It makes so much more sense to me. But I am I loved I loved those specials so much I especially loved the CBS one. Even though a lot of people think about one was a little. Racing it was very skewed I've heard even people who are Burke Ramsey murder. Her true Thursday that they felt like there was a lot of cheap shots and that, and also just you know, I. Mean I think we'll never forget kid hitting. All covered with ham with a hammer. Oh my God! How could we forget? But I mean you know it's an airtight argument for why Burke did it I. Think Yeah. Burke ended up suing CBS for like millions of dollars after that. Yeah, he's settled I think he sued for one hundred and seventy five million, and then he, or maybe was closer to three hundred because I remember thinking at the time like at best tailgate. Get half of that and you know they're so. They settled out of court so I'm sure he did very well, but they're so. I don't know there's. Like in order to sue someone for that amount of money, just like my understanding is like when you're suing someone for damages, you have to prove that that's what you lost like. You potentially lost three, hundred, twenty, five, million or whatever. Invite world was Burke Ramsey about to make three hundred twenty five million dollars. Yeah, because when you're doing for damages, you're basically paying lake. You ruined my life like this is what I stood to do in my life and you took that away from me, so you can't just sue for an arbitrary number. You have just sue for what your losses are. I never knew that but I don't know he's like a big computer programmer. Something so maybe or. Pain and suffering. Maybe I mean three hundred, twenty, five million like I didn't realize he was frigging. Bill Gates over there, but yeah, I mean I also felt so stupid when I was watching all these specials, because deep down, I felt like there was going to be a concrete answer him and If, that was the case. They're probably wouldn't even be a TV show because they would have burke Ramsey in jail so I'm thinking you know the whole time. I'm watching this I'm like. Oh, they're going to finally. Tell me who the killer is and like there's just no way to know I. Consider you know when you think about what heaven is you I've always said it's two things. It's like watching every single real housewives franchise. Footage. Louis, raw footage, and being able to see what happened in the Ramsey. House, dot night. Like I WANNA see every minute of it because I am team. Burke killed you know. Her but I also detective loose Smith. Quite a while character was not expecting what I saw when we were watching this movie I don't know why I thought he would be like a boring guy. Because of course he's not. He's like sort of like rogue type detective guy like floats around, and just is like this legend at finding you know the truth in these cases, but you know there's ice started to really. I felt a little bit. For the for the police in the moment, because I could see both sides of it. If I was a cop, I would probably go like well a+ be. We'll see so obviously someone in the house killed them. Well I feel for the ramseys because it's like the mom. Patsy if she was like. If anything happens to burke I'll just I like that, and then she would she would have the other kid taken away from her essentially if they convicted burke doing it, so it's like I. Don't know she was in a hard place. While when Patsy Ramsey, it's interesting. 'cause I am of the belief that Patsy Ramsey is like a supreme narcissist or was not to speak ill of the dead, but I'm probably going to be doing a lot of that in this. Piece. Yeah, but I while she's not definitely not resting peacefully I mean. I really also am one of the people who think that the cancer was. Probably, a direct result of the stress that came with all of this. But I almost felt like when she says to Linda in the cafeteria. This is when later on when work is getting. Interviewed by the like the child psychologist, she says you know if I lose burke like I have no reason to live. I always viewed it as a manipulation. I can see that. Because like it's you know you reasoning with her woman to woman like she was making it clear what the stakes are for her and it wasn't you know like? Why was she afraid about losing burke? You know what I mean like. We know why, but why? Why was she? Patsy is the one who really tells a lot. If I'm being honest with you but I think that we don't get a clear picture of her character in any of these documentaries or in this movie because. She seems so pulled back and withdraw. They show the CNN footage of her interview with Larry King, and it's like she's like drugged. She's like Zan or something, so I feel like we don't know who she really is. So that could be a genuine statement or could be a manipulative statement, I mean Oh, the fans for shore like I was GonNa. Talk about that when we got to the clip of it, but like when I was a kid. I had no idea what being zand out. Look like and now I'm an adult I'm like. fucking Zana's dog like she's just like not even in her right mind. For some reason. I didn't realize that I don't know. I kinda thought like benzoate were a new thing. That's so naive of me, because obviously not but for I didn't realize that it was so pervasive like you could just go get Xanax Day of your daughter being held So that's sort of like took me back a little bit. But Yeah I agree you know at one point during these this movie I just wrote on my notes like these people are fucking weird like this is the weirdest family like they're just such strange ducks and I can't imagine what happened to them. Happening to anyone else in a weird way leg. It's just they are the people that would have this unsolved murder of their daughter forever. They're just. They're the right breed of strange there so. But okay, so there is to lifetime movies about Jon Benet. This one is my favorite in the Senate has probably one of the creepiest devices they use a narrator, yes. Jon Benet a little girl to sort of paint. The picture of her murder and I'm going to play the clip. In a second, but basically. They per trae. Her is having a very childlike understanding of what happened to her which? Makes Sense. She is a child, but she wasn't so naive that she didn't. She probably wouldn't have had more. Understanding may also act like she doesn't remember anything. After she went to bed. and I just think it's such a disservice to the story and so creepy to like think that she would want to have a hand any of this right right. I'M GONNA. Play the first clip thirty seconds to one twenty five. This is kind of like bedtime story. Unsupported time. There was a girl named gene. She looked like a princess. She wasn't. Jewish system normal girl who wanted to play outside and ride your bike. Highly. I! Owning A. For. Her and my son and. That's the last thing I remember. Seeing those words. And I fell asleep. Remember anything after. That God, so creepy, it's it's so creepy. obviously okay we got. We got the version of this down. We know what this is going to be. It's going to be a freak show, so then we cut to December twenty, six, nineteen, ninety, six at five, fifty, two am, and we see the nine one one operator taking this call from Patsy Ramsey which we all know very well by now, so we cut back then to thirty hours later. Can I just say like? How much therapy do you think nine one one operators got? It's gotta be so traumatic. Imagine having job. It's one in Lake does sort of unsung hero jobs I feel like because you are internalizing so much horror, and eventually you probably will find out what happened on the other end of that call, but I'm sure you're left with a lot of stuff. You don't really know like you can't really follow every case you got. You know so. It's very I. Every time I see someone taking on one caller even just listened to one I feel so bad for the operator, yeah! But yes, so we go to thirty hours later. It's at the police station and you know we find out that this narcotics detective is going to be put onto this case because he can be the one who's you know possibly able to solve this puzzle. And just with the nine one one call, so this is. This is very nitpick. Nick piggy of me, but she doesn't say her name. She just says I'm the mother and then at the end of the scene. The nine one one operator is like okay, patsy. Thank you very much and I'm like damn it. She didn't say her name. How do you know her name was patsy and made me sub. Funny I was I. Thought it was actually the call. I don't know if it was actually the call it sounded to. The quality didn't sound. Shitty enough to be the the call. I got you I got you? Yeah, well I mean lifetime. Have some explaining to do. They do this through out where they show like stuff that looks like old footage, but it might be old footage, but it might not be old footage, so they kind of do that throughout. Yeah. They definitely didn't use the Chris Watts approach that they used in a lifetime movie where they were able to cut in a lot of real stuff it to the point where it is a little bit eerie when they show Steve's book cover and like the tabloid covers. All of that was very real. I feel like I. Remember seeing some of that stuff but yeah, so you know they're dealing with A. A lot over at the station right now and you know they find out at this point that the family is trying to take the body to Atlanta for proper funeral, and he tries to use this opportunity to basically leverage in the. He wants an interview with them, but they haven't been to cooperative with the interview. There's a lot of I mean so much of this case falls into the you know. It's all about this family that was supposedly because they're wealthy and have money around town or whatever they are considered to be local celebrities almost and. I kinda just don't understand why lake there are affluent people everywhere right? It seems like there was no shortage of affluent people where they lived. Why were they getting? All of these Special Treatment It was really. I don't know well depicted here, but. So basically, they find out that Linda. The COP. Who is there the morning that they discovered her they were it was a nightmare. She handled everything incredibly bad badly and like Linda. I have to say I always disliked her immensely and sort of retailing's of this story. Because I was just like what is up with this Mukta. She fucked it up, but you can also really see that there babysitting like twelve adults who are absolutely hectic like every single one of them. It's like a game of Sims or something where you have to track what each person is doing at any given time and make sure that they're not fucking up and. I guess she could have. Honestly there were so many times where I was yelling at my screen like tell them to sit on the couch with their hands on their fucking knees like get the fuck out of the house. But why are they having like this sort of bereavement ceremony already happening in the house, so we go back to the Ramsey's house twenty nine hours earlier to see how this all really played out for them. we see them. With the notes spread out on the floor and we hear Jon Benet say that's Mommy and Daddy. Mommy was missed West Virginia once. She let me at lots of pageants to. She said I looked so pretty in a t ARA. They don't really talk too much about the pageant stuff in this movie which I like because they really talked about that in the nineties, ally and I even think that it was inspiration for toddlers and Tiaras show which I love I think is a great show, but they almost in the ninety s like fetish is her were like Oh, she was wise beyond her years like. sexualize her in a way. That like was very uncomfortable. This was when news coverage was different, but not in this movie, but I'm glad they didn't talk too much about the pageant stuff. Yeah I think honestly most of the pageant. Steph speaks more to like a what's going on with Patsy. You know Germany was not like a super sexualize. In my I think that she was pageant. sexualize and most parents who put their kids in pageantry. are a little off. And maybe that's not necessarily fair true, but I agree. There's got to be something. Wrong with you if you're chasing Nah, but then again you know patsy was like in in the pageant. World herself like this is a thing in their family. I'm watching dirty John. Right now I'm recapping it for my quarantine podcast and I also listened to the. Full podcast. I'm like so behind the ball on it, but I cannot believe the sort of generational destruction that exists in not family that always like it it. Yeah has been so distracting mind-blowing for me and so frustrating that we're never going to get answers about that, either like we're never going to hear what the fuck is wrong with Arlene Deborah's mom. We're never going to know right. It's insane. okay, so this next clip is when the cops get there five twenty five to six three. Mr Ramsey listen care for your group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We respect your business, but not the country that it serves at this time. We have your daughter in our possession. She is safe and unharmed. If you want her to see nineteen, ninety seven, you must follow our instructions to the letter. Says they're being watched. Talk to the cops anyone has beheaded. Commander that word any point. You'll people treatment quarterback. Okay for other exit points. I mean if they're influential, doesn't trading them accordingly. Mean like giving their case extra care and treatment. Yeah, I, mean this. This ransom note is just insane like. It is found to be. Isn't. It found to be part of like a movie or something like that this the path of a movie. Yeah, so I forget exactly what movie it was, but John and patsy would watch the movie of the week every week, and this was never made a big deal of it was like an action movie, and some of the phrasing that was in the letter, was also from the movie, and it had like it was reminiscent of the plot a little bit. And that's. Exactly what the note sounds like. Wasn't it dirty? Rotten scoundrels or something something like that some very well known like crime movie. I almost I don't I thought it was like A. Like. Denzel, Washington type thriller, I don't know why I thought that I could look it up. but I'm holding my Mike and I really. I don't want to. I but in the future I will. I'll look that up and included in the description for sure so okay. That's that note is it sounds like two people trying to pull something off and doing too much on the process. Ya Yeah I think even if you WANNA, take it like as truth of what's inside it. The most crazy thing is that the ransom is one hundred eighteen thousand dollars, which is John Ramsey's the exact amount of his annual bonus at at work, which is just crazy, a yeah, and like he had just gotten it, but also I mean so. There is a little bit floated at some point about John Having a disgruntled employee who would maybe be privy to information like that, but. Why not ask for more like a child's worth way more than one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars like right. Given for inflation. I'm sure you know. The Colorado market is much different than Los Angeles one hundred eighteen thousand dollars seems like such. It's like petty cash to them I mean give me a million at least totally so The COP checks out around the house. He looks in the basement and like there's this door that he opens. That has some Kate some cans of paint on the floor, but the rest of the room is dark. And it's important to remember that so John Explains Basically. Jami went to bed that night after the Christmas party the cop notices as he's like sort of explaining this to him that there is a gigantic piece day in on her bed and he's like. Oh, she was a bad weather. And then gets like gives them a peek at Bir, who sleeping in his bed. The bed wedding thing has always I don't bummed me out. Dude like. At. What point that night did she pay? The bed legged at all a believer in the idea that. Patsy freaked out because she just said like sort of had it with like the bed wedding and it was you know she was late? I always wondered if they were drunker than they made. It seem when they came home from the Christmas party like I kind of feel like that does seem like a snap moment to me. Yeah maybe I never thought about it like that, but wasn't there something with Burke and feces like wiping feces on her or something like that, too, he yeah, he will burke one of his many behaviors that he displayed like playing with his shit and one time he did I. Think Wipe it on her wall and maybe even her bed, yeah! I don't think he you know I. Don't think he peed in her bed that day but I don't remember that being a huge thing like there was like pee on her nightgown or anything I. Don't writing that. That was a thing, so did they? Were they not changing her sheets I don't know I. Don't know, but they There's a lot of stuff in this movie that they don't really answer. Count four or come back to, and that's one of them. And then she also had male DNA in her underwear, which they don't really account for at all either so. It's. Never. Say while with me not that it should not like. There's anyone that should be like well. You know I can sleep tonight anyway. I mean that's pretty alarming stuff and she did show signs of like sexual trauma, essentially. and. got to wonder what the fuck was going on there I know what in the in the CBS Documentary Werner Spitz dismissed it or like whoever dismissed it as somebody who made it could be anything like that. The DNA could be the person who manufactured the underwear or something like that like what really? I don't know yeah, I mean if it was like new underwear and they took it straight out of the package and put it on her I could see that being a possibility. But yeah. I mean if they didn't have any any. More anything more substantial than that I. Don't know what they could do so patsy is making a big show of crying in the living room, and I say a big show because she quite obviously looks through her fingers to see if the COP is like watching her performance, I if I tried to cover up that my. Son had murdered my daughter. I wouldn't even I wouldn't even know how to act like I. Would I fuck in fumble that? Hard I would be the worst at lying about something like that. Oh my God. I think it didn't come naturally to them. Which is why they were just such odd characters, but The family friends show up the white family, and these are like they're BFF's. And PRISCILA, so you know the cops don't really say anything. When all these people charge into the living room till it come, hang out with them, which is always struck me as so that they even thought to invite friends over. And they stayed in the house, and supposedly they're waiting for this phone call. That's GONNA. Come from the people who are holding her hostage, the smaller and faction. Yeah, yes. So fleet looking for Jon Benet and he's calling her name around the house, and like this was just so bizarre, because like the way it was depicted like it's just like. Why would you do that like it seems so strange? at the stake seemed like it'd already escalated to a point that there was no way this little girl was hiding in the house. Lay Alive right, so he's bought a suitcase near a small window in the garage. Do you know what the? The name of those windows are now, but like little basement windows. Yeah, that's what I would call them in He sees a piece of glass next to the suitcase on the floor, and then he puts it on the window ledge. So there's DNA there now. That piece of evidence is compromised, and like you know at this point like these people are sort of young enough that they would probably be exposed in pop culture to the concept of tampering with a crime scene and I, think a lot of these things that were happening were accidental You know he probably just absent, mindedly picked up a piece of glass. Put It on the Ledge, but these are all the reasons why we have no fucking idea. What happened in that house, right? So patsy of retail is the story of how she realized. Dominate was missing, and it already doesn't align with the story that she told the COPS. The events are out of order. She originally said she checked her room and then came downstairs and found the note, and now she's telling Priscila that she came down. She found the note and then she checked her room. I. If this actually happened to me, I probably would have a hard time keeping track of everything that had happened i. You know it probably won't be the most reliable narrator myself, but flea continues to look around and he gets to like this. You know small room. That's mostly empty again. It's just a stray paint cans, so then John is going to wake up burke and send him to Flint House for the day. They don't want him to Oh. Upset Patsy as a really know what's going on, so the police go in and take photos of his room. Steve is like you know in the situation room at the station. Posting pictures of each one of them in setting up probably one of the most. Serial killer style like tracing map things that I've ever seen in a lifetime my God it was incredible incredible. It was insane. I know when you think about the sheer amount of information. We just had as the public about this case like I can't imagine God i. Wish I could read the indictment so. Yes, so then Jon Benet says these are the people who come when bad things happen to good people I wish they could help me remember what happened that night so I was soon that was some sort of like social worker, group or something, but then these people fucked up the crime scene more than anyone. It were advocates or something like victims advocates. They were called a yeah, and they all had like these sort of you knew they were because they had these name tags on, and I will say. I? Watched this movie on my computer. So you know it's obviously wasn't the most gigantic screen, but a problem for me throughout this movie. Is that the lighting? Makes people look different in every scene like I couldn't have seen Steve's face more fucking times in more confused about it like every single time. I saw him I just thought he was another detective same. Because they also didn't do a great job of like establishing the names of people like someone who I'm just referring to my notes, Steve's partner, but I don't know who the fuck. He is like who the guy was glasses. The guy with a beard who looks like TV Dad Yeah with the yeah I know who you mean maybe says I don't know I. That's always a problem in granted. This is based off of real life, so they were probably aiming to achieve more than they were like to establish different people, but yeah, so they asked a fleet to return the camera with. The photos that they took from dinner the night earlier. So Flint in a fleet and Burgo like they ride together, and you know he's keeps looking in the back seat at Burke and sees that he's just sort of shocked out he doesn't seem to really care or begins -cerned most kids would be asking a million questions if they were woken up with police on their home. And you know he's basically laid berkshires concerned about his video games. Burke doesn't give a shit about anything like that. It's it's what's so crazy about this kid. Is that people you know? Keep talking about how burke like you know. Always just a kid like kids react differently. I think most kids are mostly inquisitive. Yeah, he's a burke is a weird little dude I. Don't know if he's like on the autism spectrum or what, but he's fucking weird. Yeah I. Agree died with the theories that he might be more on the spectrum because it's just. It's like the most generous thing. I can do honestly Mr. -ssume. That he's neuro atypical so another detective at seven fifty four PM so Linda. This is where Jami introduces us to Linda who was the one running the House that day and she said she seems like she's really nice like she really cares so. Flee wants to know are maybe there's another family friend there I get. I couldn't tell these fucking people. People. Yeah wants to know. If the note was written after midnight. They're going to be calling the next day. in Linda's like well either way. It can't hurt to have the whole setup here so we can do this in like what about the nineteen? What about foreign faction like Any of those things mean anything to you? John They're both boches like I. Don't fuck a now, so then patsy says he was their housekeeper because she did recently ask for a raise, and she didn't get it, and she has a key and at that point I was like fuck you like, don't want. My housekeeper is like my fucking best friend dude. I can't imagine selling out your housekeeper at a time like this Shosha. But so yeah, so anytime. The police like pick something up in the house to like bring it to evidence or even like dust for fingerprints. One of these victim advocates like comes along and wipes it up like they're actively destroying this crime scene so the white family That's their PRISCILA patsies. Best friend looks kind of suspicious about what she's seeing. Something about all. This doesn't sit well with patsy. Something doesn't sit well without Patricia. Basically. She's watching patsy preying on the couch and she's just sort of like. It seems like odd behavior to her. And it is like when you when you know your best friend and all of a sudden. They're like taking notes from a different playbook. That's something. Only a best friend would really know. I think in this moment we get the weird zoom in as well where like throughout this whole first part? She's wearing patsies wearing this gigantic cross, and then when she finds out her daughter is dead. We got a weird legs zoom in on her face, and her robot is as she's praying, and it's so fucking creepy to me. Dude and not seen. She literally looked like Khloe Feinman. I think that's her name. Khloe is crazy. She's like what we doing. A character very would yeah. Yeah. It was completely manic, so. What's Your Face Priscilla? Start like has a little vision of Daffy her daughter and Jon Benet running running up to show them their friendship bracelets and sort of thinking about how they're gone now and yeah Giannini says that once her best friend Daphne hit his Joe but that morning when she was hiding, it wasn't a joke. okay, thanks. Jon Benet things checking in so Steve's taking in evidence in his office, and it's clear that he has no idea what's going on, but he obviously knows something is very wrong here and Steve Lake Road for this case so hard. That's what this I mean that's with. This movie is telling me basically. and. It's always important to know like what who your hero is in the story because that's like completely, that's where the biased comes from especially in a lifetime movie, they can only go so much to like sort of nuances things so The COP collects one of the cops. There collects the writing samples from John and Patsy and the handover the pads of paper Ham. So at this point patsy so upset that she's throwing up and Linda in another cop, who I don't know his name either, but he's. Like a big gruff sorta like a leathery guy Detective Franquin so he says you know. Basically they should release anyone that doesn't need to be there so that there could be a strategy session. Many leaves it on Linda to basically like hold down the fort, and this was one of the other totally fatal errors because he's you know I think he's going to go interview, Burke or something at the fleets. House but. Let's. He leaves her alone. She tries to get them to all stay in one room and just like keep the foot traffic to a minimum in patsies. Crying is finally calmed. A little bed and Linda wants to interviewer about the housekeeper, but then patsy says she's had like a change of heart probably couldn't be the housekeeper I mean it doesn't even look like her writing, so then PRISCILA comes into the room and I think we should change on bananas sheets. And Linda's just like dude. I want like. How can I stop you people? So at that point? She gets up and starts looking for John and you know there's plenty of DNA being spread everywhere. Eventually, she finds John at the kitchen table, and he's just like nervously tapping his foot in rereading the letters from the kidnappers, and that nervous sort of leg motion. Dude, own my God. There's nothing I hate more in life than. I can't stand tapper. Triggers Mesa Fonje for shore? But like there's something about a fidget or that? Really it really gets nerves so she asked him He's like you know. Have you ever seen? John like this. She asked fleet and he's like you know. I've never seen him in a situation quite like this. And, so he's still totally on his side. At this point, really trying to process what's going on here but yeah, so fleet and John Linda for some reason tells fleeting John Why don't you go just like look around in the basement one more time? And then he's asked John About the broken window and John Explains at sometimes over the summer he broke his window to let himself in, and he's been meaning fix that, so he leaves the room and he goes looking in the others, and there's one door almost at the end of the hall that has lake basically a latch on top of it that you could really only open. If you were tall enough to like, reach it It's completely like makeshift, and I think that is one of the bigger things that has been going for like Burke, not doing this. South but he has. We looks into the room, which is just as dark as any other time we've seen it. which is the same paint Cam Room? And he screams God, and so he's sees the body in the pitch dark, and that was another thing with fleet. Was that he? Later on, said like. How did he know? The body was in there before you turn on the way? Right away. The dude just fucking mangles the little girl's body like he goes ripping the duct tape off. I could never imagine doing not to a dead body I would be afraid to tear the skin. I don't know why this was his reaction. Other than obviously was intentionally tampering with the crime scene, but it just seems so bizarre, so he carries her upstairs in. Linda sees that he's coming down the hallway with the body, and she's I. Put the put the body down. Put the buddy down. Don't touch anything. And then patsy comes over and she is. She's balling and she's like you know trying to put her hands on the kid and it's just like. No. One's going to get that perfectly I understand. But. I mean. I thought this body scene was so gruesome and so disgusting and I hated it, and I do not want because the body. They showed her full now dead body, and she was blue and bleeding, and it's like I don't need any of that I. Know this was like we're already hearing her creepy voice I don't need her light blue dead body. You know what I mean. No, absolutely, because that's like one thing that we've never really been privy to with the state of her body when she was found and. At that point, she had been dead for hours. So like rigor, Mortis like there was some of the earlier signs of like a body decaying, and it was very graphic like i. don't feel like there was any reason to this show. Close ups of that and make it worse than it already wise I feel like this poor girl has been. As much as they desperately want to know what happened with her and I understand all the fanfare. I can't understand like I don't know if there is another side. If she is up in heaven, watching us right now I just feel so bad for her late away. What she's have to had to watch play out about her life. Whatever I mean, it's just it's bizarre. It's it's honestly this case blows my mind so. But. But speaking speaking the latch. Documentary. They say that they think that the. John Helped Burke moves the body or something that maybe she, he that Burke may have killed her in a different room, and then moved her down to their, and that's how he knew is in there, and that's how like he could reach the latch that that was just there. Yeah I mean I I. Don't think it's like a huge mystery that he put her down there at all like I think that he was killing time till it seemed long enough for though investigated the body I mean they did show him sort of taking a passing look in some of the other rooms, but he definitely walked to that door and I think that I remember fleet talking about because obviously fleet Priscila are no longer friends with the ramseys. Wind up feeling like right away like they needed to. About a year in days are to take a real stand, and we see that in this movie but I mean he was said you know. I feel like John just walked straight back to that door like almost as if he was ready to unveil that the body was still there so Linda's basically on the phone at this point demanding back up at the house, because the crime scene is Ben just completely obliterated There's even a priest there now, Let's say twenty one forty three to twenty three minutes. Yes now. All alone here. He didn't mean to kill her. He grabbed her. Thank. Know A-. Pre. School. Got To be an inside job. No No No. You. Probably my. Most iconic lifetime cry. We've seen in yours like Tori. Spelling could never unbelievable, so it's unclear to me whether this is bad acting or whether this is actors acting like the parents are overdoing it. Does that make sense. Yeah No, it totally makes sense. I mean they are portraying to the best of their ability. It's also you know that's very lifetime. That's very brand with lifetime. Just started these like half baked performances like people you know in so. Acting Chops. There they work with the material. They're given. You know what I mean. I always have a really hard time. Pinpointing who to blame I'm, is it? The acting is the directing. Is it the writing? I think a lot of times. It is direction in these movies that make it really suffer, but I think they use non union actors, too. So I think it's getting to. sometimes they use non-union Canadian day players, but for the most part a lot of these people have very full careers. Really, let's Look Patsy Ramsey. She's play by Julia Campbell who was Christine masters in Romi Michelle's. Wow. Do like. She's the one She's like the main bitch in that movie. She's done. You know she's. She's done a lot of series Tell me a story. The resident she was on Awkward Recovery Road Austin, and Allie she's worked a decent amount. She had a really long role on Dexter seems like like a six episode arc. well to be clear I didn't think the acting in this lifetime movie was bad I. Think this scene is bad. That's why I think is acting the actors making the choice to play like the parents are overdoing it. Yeah well I. Mean that's that's sort of the theatrics of it all for sure lack, it's you know. I started to wonder especially during the scene when John then flips and says it has to be an inside job. Like what did he mean by that? Like who who is under the umbrella of being inside and I start to wonder like did they brainstorm on just like weird ass theories to potentially throw out. I don't know, but it's crazy, but what I'm wondering is. Do you think like what's with the window the broken window? Do you think he did that? On purpose to make it look like there was an intruder. I think that he was actually I. think that they were very lazy about certain aspects of their home. No I think it's totally plausible that he forgot his keys imbroglio window. That's something like homeowners do. Hopefully not all the time, but it's. It's not unheard of like you know. The the door didn't have great. Reinforce locks like patsy didn't check any that stuff. They very much lived a sheltered life. I was more worried honestly when I when I saw that he had let that broken window. Go for so long that. The fucking temperature in your house. Dude, like what about just like having the elements come inside your house sold. But. Let it go for that long like you have too much potential for help to not replace that God damn. Window, But! Yeah, so Patsy has taken. You know that. Diaz's Pam or whatever and she is completely passed out on the floor. and John Sort of cries as he watches her on the floor and the next day at work Linda's. You know this. This is cutting back to where we started Linda's hugging. But what happened that morning? The detectives and we get a rare Swear so I'M GONNA. Play that scene as well. It's twenty three twenty, two to Twenty Six oh six. Shit Store I was at the autopsy this morning and there's a six year old girl with an eight inch crack in her skull in a garage around her neck, and you know what they're trying to figure out. Which one of those kilter! And when and what and for how long someone was shoving something inside of her signs of sexual abuse. The parents have any idea a few, but. We can't talk to them since. We thought it was a kidnapping. These are influential people. Everyone was treating it all with kid gloves hugging the body cleaning up emergency. I moved the bodies. It's all contaminated I. don't even know why. We're here to see you. MR, Ramsey. You walk away from an active crime seat. They're getting my plane writing. I have important business in Atlanta under daughter. We we have unfinished business here. You can't go to Atlanta or anywhere else can stay here another moment. We obviously have to talk to you. Your wife and your son. You'll stay with us. Just two. Weeks. Most our daughter. Home. Steps. John Andrew and Melinda. Are Older sister died in car accident. I know most stories only have one bad thing happened that this is in the story. This is real life. Lots of bad things happen in real life. At least in mine. This is a mistake. Who should be taking them downtown separating? Commanders call. Him Where are you going? Wow so manipulation on on the part of John to like not just trying to skip town, but then when they're like. No, you have to stay. Your daughter was just murdered. He's like please. My daughter was just murdered. Do like there's no I'm sorry, it's not convenient. Leg I i. You know I have to say it can't be probably any more convenient than on December twenty six for your daughter to get murdered brutally in your house, but like these are the things you gotta do guys. You GotTa talk to the police. You got to cooperate. You know this is in the best interest of finding out what happened your daughter unless you don't want people to find out what happened to your daughter, but no, they don't because they're rich way people so they can do whatever they want. Obviously. I know their wealth was I mean. This guy has a plane at his fingertips and you're telling me. They wanted a hundred and eighteen thousand dollars like on. So we we'll go ahead. Do you think it's that the other daughter died, too? I don't think it's sauce I mean. I don't think that like John had anything to do with his daughter's car accident, but it definitely increases the stakes for why they would want to make sure the burke was protected. Yeah, I don't know any of the details surrounding that car accident like I wonder if that was, there was something fishy about that as well. Yeah, I think that I looked into that in the past in like from what I remember it was you know just your everyday car crash? Don't think it was like faulty brakes or something, or but Yeah I mean. I was thinking about that as this clip was playing in terms of like the burke of it all like what happens if a nine year old murder someone. Is Healing especially view if he got hit over the hat like she got hit over the head and that was the. If? If they had just admitted it then this would all be over like burke would be out of Juvie, or whatever, and like we all would have forgotten about this case by now, and he could have a normal life. Totally and I mean to your other point. They are a wealthy white family like they can really sort of buy their way out of this evenly. We'll send him somewhere. That's really good and like incentivize him to not give them. Some sort of like juvenile detention sentences like I mean. This sounds like it could have been an accident in a lot of ways if he really did take his train track, and like you know, stab her head with it. I think that that is something that just sounds like a kid freaking out. Except this time it was fatal, and he definitely liked to beat up on his sister immediate hitter with a golf club in the yard the summer before like this is a kid that resorts to strange tactics in violence to get attention for sure You know he probably did need some sort of reforming. Yeah! And it's. It's scarier that he's out on the street than anything I mean if I. If that was my child, I would like to think that I would. I would get them help instead of protecting them and keeping them in a bubble all these years. Yeah I when the CBS documentary aired. His social media was still. Public, it wasn't private yet. So is able to see like his instagram twitter and it was like mundane. There's nothing to note really so which makes me think he's even more on the spectrum for some reason. Right. Like lives very unaffected by this, and it's just sort of. Boring person exactly I mean that's what I got from his appearance on Dr Phil. The really Erie smiling and sort of the lack of emotion. It was really just You know it was unsaddling because he. was He seems so normal I. Mean this guy has a girlfriend? Yeah, yeah? I mean imagine signing, I know that one can get a boyfriend I know that anyone wants to date. You know there's always going to be someone for someone like this is even maybe attracted to the fact that he's burke. Ramsey, but I cannot imagine like calling it. My mom being lake, young dating a really great guy. actually is jumping as brother. Where the where the detective or leather daddy went was to go see burke at the Fleas House and you know he's sitting at the table, drinking a glass of milk and eating a sandwich and you know having no problem with his appetite is a normal conversation, and he says that he woke up in his dad said was missing, and he has no idea. Idea when he woke up, he never heard anything that nate. He says he went to bed. Any heard the like you know. Normally at night, the only noisy here's the water heater scame He said there was no arguing in. He said that his he like he then reiterates his father woken up and that John Jami was missing And, then he goes we are we still going to Michigan and the actors? Like what are you guys do in Michigan and he's like. Oh, go water skiing and you know he's going over like the fun activities they do and the detective tries to like. Circle it back and get back into the questions that are necessary and he's like. Can I go play video games, so he is not? I can't imagine any child would be excited to have this conversation, but it's like they're pointing to colors like asking him you know like would. Very late questioning. Yeah and then the thing that gets me later and I don't know and I. It's one of those moments where I can't tell if it's historical footage from the interview, or if it's recreated footage as when he asks one of the detectives if he's wearing a rolex. That's wild. Yeah, that's all recreate. The original videos are available online from Lake. The original questioning that was released. Released when the documentaries were made a few years back in I mean he is completely blase in those interviews as well while his big on changing the subject, like doesn't understand the seriousness of why he's there which you know if he is innocent, and all of this good for him to not have to focus on the horror of his sister. Be murdered like you know that's. That is a coping mechanism is one so Yeah? The cops replayed the nine one one call, and they start to fixate on the part of the call where patsy didn't hang up. And this is the nine one one operator, basically bringing it to them and saying there's something really weird about this call in. It sounded like her voice, but not so. So hysterical and she was talking to someone nearby, so they decided that this is gonna be their big thing. This is going to be the secret that they keep. Cops always have to keep a couple of secrets and the FBI in secret service. Will you know they're the ones who typically handle something like this? So then they go to see the forensic. Handwriting Expert Guy which I love. We had a movie about a handwriting expert and it was I loved it. I love it when I can geek out on someone else's profession. It's the best part of Lake, any law and order when they go, see the Emmy So. They you know. He basically says like the war of ransom notes like normally people just get to the point and say like I need this much money or I'm gonNA. Kill Your Kid and then he notices that on the pad that was handed into them with the handwriting samples. There's a page if you flip back that says Mr Mrs so basically you know practice. For the note that wind up getting handed in, and it's a very different style of handwriting So then that's when he realizes that the pad that he has with the samples from John and Patsy is the same one that was The same that the note was written on it lines up perfectly so the detective. Steve he watches videos of Germany's pageants and home life and I mean this guy through his life. Into this case, it seems like he would return to these tapes all the time. The point where I was like come on Steve like. How many more times you have to watch her with the hose and the Yard Lake? There's no evidence in. It. Seems like you already are fund enough of this girl. You don't need to remind yourself fat. And To your. To to your point about the ransom, no, they say in the CBS documentary that. No killer. It's GonNa. Sit there and write out like three pages of ransom like if they're an intruder and write out this long ass, ransom note when they're trying to take the kid and get some money and leave, of course not like that's the biggest loophole in the story is. How like you know especially because some of the language that was used in there like that's no one's like natural narrative and writing style. So There's you know they're looking through the fleet family and the cops are looking to the same sort of pictures or having a little film. Moment there were there inter cutting the two of them. There is one where burke is like looking back with a little bit of contempt and there's another one where you just totally disconnected from his mom in her. In that picture and it's very clear that Johnny was the favorite child, so we see a flashback to that night of You know Christmas when Jami in the family are leaving oh. Sorry, they're playing the fleet's daughter Daphne Germany playing together then we see a moment of Patsies goofing around, and she sets the table like this is where the fleets are starting to remember some of these things in just how normal it all seemed in how it didn't line up with what they saw the next day. and Fleet comes in and says that the RAMSEYS lawyer wants to talk with them. you know because they always go for the parents I? Daily decide to engage their lawyer have their back. In Priscilla turns to him and says that her bed patsies bed didn't look slept in that night and Patsy was wearing the same outfit that she was wearing the night before, and she thinks that she probably didn't go to bed at all that night. Going back to their last memory, she flashes back to the family, leaving the House on Christmas night in Germany, getting merry Christmas. She's carried out in her dad's arms. I? I hate it. I hate the flashbacks I hate. It's awful. It's also awful, because like kids are just the worst fucking actors. Every play the scene with Daphne when they tell her that she's no longer with us but i. mean it's just so awful when the kids have to act these movies because I just I got shit on them late. They just they don't really have a place in a movie like this. When like the directing and all that stuff isn't really they're the. There's just no place for a child so now we're on day three. It's to eighteen PM. The detectives pull up to Fleets House the White. and. Let's play this clip. Thirty, one, zero, nine, thirty, two, zero nine. This is what. Yes detectives. Thomas and gossage but the. Do, you mind if we ask you a couple of questions. We already talked here your colleagues. Why not everyone else has? Just missed the last bunch. Some private investigators from Johns lawyers. Want they want. Basically know what we'd already told you or anyone else. Are they concerned about something? I. Guess You'd have to ask them. Stir White. This is why I want you to know that in cases like this, it's natural to look at the immediate family. I eliminated. That's what Johnson's lawyers are for. The shift focused where it should be. An. Where's that? You're the police. You don't have any leads. In College. I mean like they're old friends in a weird way and something happened between them the way that Steve and the white family are talking I mean it's interesting to see how quickly the whites knew something was off. It seems like Priscilla knew when she walked into the House that day. Then not everything was adding up right away, she knew. And the amount of screen time she's given shows like. Were you know supposed to? Glean that she now as well. So yeah. That same day, the Ramsey show up to give their DNA the forensic team, and of course they bring their lawyer who make it clear that you know it's their legal right to just give their DNA and not be questioned or anything like that, so they show a team of people that are there to take everyone's DNA It's basically like a security cam moment where they're showing. It's they're very artistic or lifetime, and then you know we see Patsy John Berg. Enter than we see the stepsiblings or there to John, the first to go and then we go to four twenty three a m, I don't know why. OPM, sorry Ramsey family provides his friends example so we can see. Prince hair saliva samples blood. At one point they do a cut in on someone's tongue and dude like rush your tongue doing a close on your. Police. That is your tongues moment to shine. I! Don't know if we were supposed to understand. These characters are extremely hydrated after days of crying. Dobbin is never going to be a tongue model ever. Yeah, it was really it was really unfortunate, because they also had a lot of tongues to pick from, and for some reason, they decided to spotlight that one, so they decided to take photos of everyone, and just to have them on the record in Burke is smiling and his photo. I mean the step siblings just like dead inside on looks little concerned, but then patsy her photos a little bit more haunting than that. It's off, so she's a little off center in frame again. She totally looks like a Khloe firemen, impression and I think. It's this actress. The more I look at her. The more I kind of think it's brilliant that they cast a comedic actress in this movie to play at sea but that night the white family on the decided to break the news to their daughter that Jon Benet has passed. I'm surprised. They got away with it for like four days And then in. We're after that we're going to hear clip of day. Four Johnny is funeral, and then we're going to hear patsy like it's also patsies birthday, and then we're gonNA. Hear that there's cops watching everything and it's already turning into a media circus. This is a longer clip. We're GONNA play thirty, three, Fifty, eight to thirty, six fifty. Five something to tell you. Could make you feel really sad inside. But it's OK. Dumping is gone. Liamine trump needs gone. To Heaven Sweetie. She coming back. What happened to her? She nobody knows for sure. Today's Mommy's birth. That's. and. Let us say Ahmet. Off! Please let the family pass, and then join US afterwards for reception. Housekeeper. His handwriting looks nothing really out. Attacked Him. A couple of questions, please. It's an active investigation. You know we can't comment. The chief is going to call a press conference all right thanks I. Just have a moment of your time, please. Is it true you're ransoming the body for an interview? The body's going to Atlanta today for a funeral on Tuesday. The, Ramseys! told her that. Here comes around shot. Talk To daughter morning. August. Let's y'all. Let's go through it so. Daphne God bless her I really. I didn't need to hear from a kid in this movie really. Brought from mood. A little bit I will say that. I think it's kind of unbelievable that. The white family stayed through like all of this now I understand like. Now isn't really the time to disown your friend, but like how how painful that must've been for them to sort of go through every moment of the funeral process in the beginning of this knowing already that there's something off, your best friends may have murdered their daughter totally so weird. And also in this last seen here with the media, we sort of established that there are some internal leaks in the police department that are going out and this was a huge thing. I mean the amount of press. That this case, Scott and the new development that happens you know I. Remember all the way through that summer. After this murder happened, books were already out, and you know like those paperback books that they saw at every grocery store, just laying the first person. You know at like the amount of police cooperation with the media was really disturbing for the lack of what we know to be like the lack of sort of evidence in results. They got out of this and it makes me think like of Laurie, Valo even. Where like you know we're just I don't know forever. Really GonNa know what happened there because we're dealing with people who keep secrets. And you know Steve I have to say come on Steve. Where are you sending the media? After the Ramseys at their daughter's funeral laying my gosh like go ask them like I. Don't really think this is the time Steve but. I think we all know they're liars, but the next time it's day six There are Marietta Georgia. They're laying her to rest and burke is really a motionless funeral kind of checked out then. Patsy you know leans down whispers something into his ear, and sort of sends him toward the casket, and you really starts to tear up. A BET and patsy looks on sort of almost smiling and. I gotTa know what she said to him like. Do you think she's like you killed your sister? The least you can do is go take a by. I thought it was so weird that she was smiling like that shot was so creepy to me. And, but also it is problematic to like go so much off of the behavior of people. A tragedy happens because you don't know how you're GONNA. React like when you're a kid. I don't know like when my grandparents died I was like. I didn't really care you know what I mean like. You can't plot this. The emotions and the gravity of everything that's happening, so it's hard to like. Base it off that you know. I totally agree. I think the only issue here with that is like it's. It's difficult to process weird on weird lab if they weren't just weird to begin with, there would be much more of like a curveball, or like a grace given to them, or you're just sort of like like they're going. You know they're. They're going through it lake. People grieve differently. It's almost like you know sort of like the Scott Peterson. Chris Watson fact, it's just the attention. The way that they interact with attention is so strange. they liner. In they, they're telling on themselves and I think that that is the part where you they love it like why who would love this? Like what kind of people would love this? You know you know who I love. This is people who put their daughters pageant and name their daughter their own names. I know I know. Jon Benet was named after John Bennett Ramsey. It's not even like a French thing. It's like a combined. Jon Benet Jon Benet Patricia Ramsey and Patricia was the mother so like they are narcissist. That's the kind of people that love this attention. I do love that. She is the first like famous person in my world that had like a made up name. Lake at this like now. It's sort of like par for the course like the Mormons are out here naming their kids like insane shit. Happens all the time like God Jessica from Nineteen Kids, and counting named her son spurgeon Oh. I saw that, but that's some Mormon history person or some Shit I. Don't know Taller Lady, but like it's just not. Easy on the ears or the mouth, no. It's. It's just like you know it's. It's a real choice and I always was sort of fascinated by this particular choice. Because the name works, it works. We've said it for years but yeah, it was. It was really the first like sort of. Time. I'd ever seen anything like that before. That's. So patsies, mother, and like you know I. Guess The older kids from John's first marriage. They're all in her living room, watching the news and her mom's living room is basically a museum of patsies pageantry life. That's also where I'm a little bit feeling Arlene from dirtyjohn vibes, because I'm like you know. Maybe this is just what patsy knows. Maybe she was a narcissist who was raised by a narcissist. You know maybe. You know to patsies credit although I think she's being a little, you know it. It was a little strange as she handled that she comes in. You know basically shut the TV off and says like you know there are children here, and she gives everyone in the room like a really filthy look. That just felt very late. Shame on you, but it also seemed very. seemed to come from like. Like a narcissistic place like the way that the actress played Yeah, it was like a hurt. It was more of just like how fucking like how dare you made me. It made me kind of scared of her in that moment. I was like I wouldn't be shocked if everyone in her family was a little bit scared of her. Yeah I was yeah. This has a lot of secrets. For sure. Should scary regrets and well okay so back to the garage. We haven't even touched on it, but okay so patsies. Dodd was a sailor and he was in the navy. Boats were life in his house and the garage. It was always you know such a strange thing. That wasn't a boy scout. Not It wasn't a not that you would really know unless you had some sort of maritime experience in your past, and a lot of people are pointing to the fact that Patsies Dad's headstone there. There is like an engraved not on that headstone so like. Maybe they were a big, not family. Who their big heads I never heard that. Yeah like I was wondering lake either this family fucking love some knots, or they pulled out a book, and like figure it out how to make that thing like I. But where would they have? Like what would be the resource and like who even really knows how to do something like that? It's not a common skill you know. Burke is like up in his room like reading a book on knots and like trying to think of ways to kill his sister. You know that that's the kind of kid that does that Shit. Right, no absolutely I. of course, that's my opinion. Please don't sue me Burke Ramsey. No I totally agree. He's that kid who's like on his neck. Shit like I raised a bunch of money to buy kids Christmas presences here through operation. Santa and you have to like pick. The letter. In like be like okay I'm adopting this kid. And so I adopted this kid just because his only Christmas, wishes were a metal detector and a safe. Yeah, and I was Oh, he's just on his next level like he's worried about. He's an entrepreneur. Like of course I bought him. Both I wrote the parents a card. I gave them the other key because I was just like. I. Don't trust him. I don't trust Nikki in his. You know metal detector by the way Nikki, if for some reason you're listening to this, reach out to me. It breaks my heart that I'll never know you kids. Oh! Yeah. That was the hardest part is like I'm never going to know them. Girl like a kind of destroys me because I feel like I know them, he. Seems really cool though that Kitson's really cool that he is bad ass. Like I always think that way, too I just didn't have I i. don't think anyone would entertain me honestly. That's kind of why I had to take him up on it. Because I was like no one's going to buy you this school, but. okay so. John Talks with fleet the next day. WHO's basically just trying to reason with him and giving him the optics on everything like this is his friend. That cares about him enough to take time and be like this is looking really bad. I'M GONNA. Play this scene, but like just you know sort of the kindness in. Honestly that this would take I think that I would have a hard time even leveling with my best friend four days after their kid was murdered and be like you look terrible. Okay so thirty, eight, forty, nine to forty, fifty eight. Hiding behind lawyers. And Crisis Management firms is not the answer John. You look like Oj in the Bronco. We're not confident in how the police are handling this. We're GONNA put up a fifty thousand dollar reward for information. Like Oj? What you do. In the next twenty four hours is going to define the rest of your life. You need to come back to boulder and talk to the police. Patsy needs to talk to them we do. We all do to find out what happened to Jon Benet. You're making it look like. You're involved. And we're going to tell them we're not. We've made arrangements to go on CNN CNN. Get all this cleared up. Stop, it from getting out of control. You need to talk to the police not CNN. please. As your friends? For the both of Burke. Come back to boulder. Mommy Daddy went on TV. It was the first time most people saw them. But on TV mommy doesn't even sound like herself. And she looks so sad. We are also assuming investigative team. To assist. We want to find. The best. Minds, This country has to offer. There is a killer on the lose. I don't know who it is. I. Don't know if it's a he or she. But if I were a resident of Boulder. I. Tell my friends. To keep. I mean I. Don't think it was the TV that was making your mom. sound funny Jon Benet but I need okay so many things here I have to say. They bring up a very good thing, fleet and Priscila about OJ. And realizing that this was post OJ sort of. Makes me, really think about. Like where people were with the justice system at that point in sort of what rich people could get away with with enough complications in lawyers because it would have been difficult to. Especially when the evidence, it would have been really difficult to get a jury to make a decision about this, and of course you know a jury did later. Make a decision about this, but I think at that point so much time had passed that. People just wanted it behind them, and it was so obvious I mean I think it would be almost impossible to have a jury that wasn't tampered with in some capacity in a case like this, but it really you know it really made me think lake. Oh God like. Did they sort of? Did they sort of know that they would probably just be able to get away with us if they tied up legal stuff like was OJ the blueprint i. think when that that friend said this? You're doing this just like OJ, they a part of their brains just went like Ding Ding Ding. We can be like OJ. This mom's in pageants. She wants to be famous. She's like she was Miss West Virginia's like. Of course they want the notoriety. My opinion of course I don't know. and. Also it's the CNN of it. All like that would have been truly not like. The beginning of the end hadn't already happened. That would be the very beginning of the end for me seeing that they were more willing to talk to the people in the news, and like sort of recover their public image than they were about finding the killer of their daughter. It just seems so disingenuous to be honest in like their logic is obviously flawed So you know that that news scene was so uncomfortable like neither of them were necessarily groomed for this just because you were missed. Wisconsin or whatever? It doesn't mean you know how to successfully true. All into thinking you know. Oh well. She's clearly an ascend and. I! DuNno I don't know, but the fans dude Zana's. Pop in weight and also this was a time in history. When like? Our attention was much less fragment fragmented. We weren't. We didn't have a million streaming services. We didn't have TIKTOK. We didn't have all this other shit to look at so people were watching the OJ trial. People were watching the Jon Benet. It was like the thing that people were watching and looking at. It was everywhere at the time. So of course they like loved it. Yeah because you could be a celebrity. Your being involved in some night at people this our nation was like totally dialed into true crime. At this point, it was like a little bit of the true crime like heyday heyday. But yeah, so it's Day twelve now in the media is worse than ever they ask some detective. Coming in I, believe might be the chief, but again these people are fucking impossible to tell apart. And they say you know. The ramseys aren't avoiding the police at all like to actually answered questions for us, and then we see Steve on hot on his heels when he comes in. He's basically like they are not cooperating with us. They gave us a list of. Questions with yes or no answers, and now they're saying that they're. Memories are basically wiped tra- not morning. At this point He tells Steve. You Know Oh. You're too caught up in this. You got to focus on other people like what about John's disgruntled employees and Steve's like listen if they they need to bring him, burke or they're going to have CPS at their door, and he's like a youth threatening them and Steve's like. No, it's the fucking law in Colorado. which by the way where isn't that a law like? Where wouldn't that be a so burke? Please gas who I love that guests who shout out with the child psychologist and it seems like he's in a relatively good mood and she asked him you know. Do you normally wake up when you hear something? And he says yeah, like the French doors but that night nothing woke up. French doors, not particularly loud doors. Mellow and not historically known as loud doors so. You know he says he's you know it's hits. He's been okay since it happened. He feels safe and she's like well. Do you know what happened? He's I. Guess she was killed You know someone either quietly went down to the basement, and they took a knife or they banged. You're on the head in a psychologist is like well. Why don't you like? Do you think that that would happen to you need says no, so at this point I don't know if this was intentional. Intentional or not, but it was brilliant, because like this is where we get to see that. Burke has a temper, and it comes out of nowhere, and it's really fast. She they both have liked cans of Dr Pepper on the table where she's interviewing him, and she picks up his and takes a sip of it, and he's like that's mine. I can't drink it now. He's very You know I would have never spoken to an adult like that as a kid. Ever let alone. No Mr? Something in a situation like this. I probably wouldn't touch my drink again. I was torn as well on whether that was intentional or not because like. How could it not be intentional? But then that's a weird thing to do. Like how maybe she's trying to make him mad. I was torn not as well and I. also do want to say that guests who was a very. Of the moment game, so it's perfect. I loved guests who to I. It was just fun to watch someone else. Play it again. made me want to get some guests. Who My life again you know I think the only reason why I would love to believe it was intentional is because. She needed to disarm him some way Whether or not this kid has armour on unclear. It seems like he's just generally unfeeling, but. Either way. It's like kind of it's is probably one of the better things that came out of Burke. Being interviewed is to see how he gets so hot all of a sudden. So, this is the seem you were talking about earlier. When patsy in Linda are talking in like it seems like some sort of cafe that's attached to precinct dirt wherever they are and we're going to hear after that a group of detectives examined the drying that birth, and yes, don't worry I. Take a screen shot of the drawings we. We love bad sketches on this show, so let's play forty four fourteen to forty, five, forty seven. Thought. This would be quicker. Spend up their rooms. Can you're? I. Can't tell you hold. It's left and me. John's at work irks going back to school. Shopping. To me. Filing trumpy. I can't have any more children. I had cancer surgery. I'm sorry. I Lost Burke. I would have no reason to go on living. They don't want to take him from you patsy. They just ask him some questions. The plane implies remoteness distance. Small Stature patsy insignificance powerlessness. The fact that Jon Benet at all. We can have after the murder. It's interesting cycle battle. It's not it that's. When he told the dock, he was just getting on with his life. He's nine. We're getting. Teen calls a day from kids who were afraid. This is gonNA happen to them. And this kid just down the hall from where it did happen. He's no scared at all. What gets the same thing I said about John? There's no such things no behavior after trauma like this. Evidence. I. This is a perfect scene to explain exactly what I needed by. Everyone Looks Sameness movie. The Guy was exhibiting. The drawing is about I'd probably say like six one. He's wearing a blue button down shirt with a darker tie and he has a beard and Brunette hair. Then the person's talking to playing devil's advocate in this movie. Who is just hits? The exact right spot of my nerves I can't take a person. He is also about the same height wearing the same colored shirt also as a beard like. If you're not paying super close attention, it almost looks like Hey, are the same actor playing against each other I? While I was watching this I was like. Why didn't they have a more diverse cast? But then I was like Oh, it's history. It's like actually what happens, so they had to right, I. Know It's like like throw a hat on someone. Make someone had guy gives the guy. For the love of God. Like there's so many ways to give someone a personality like Oh. Is that the guy who like randomly loves to WEAR WOMEN'S BROACHES? Like just get? There's give him something. Give him a little something, but I mean it was also. It's Colorado Lake we have to buy like how not diverse is department probably was yeah so. You know I can't stand this devil's advocate guy. It's like, but they're necessary people in society, right? You have to have that journalist. Who's going to poke a hole in anything because that's what a lawyer will do, that's what a good defense will do. You know. Do you think the drawing was psycho. babble like I. DON'T I? Don't think it's admissible in court, but I think like writing that off well fair. It's like it kind of also shows what time we were in this world with like what we consider to be. Waited to something bigger. Yeah, I think I think the word psychobabble is a very nineties term as well and very like. So dismissive. To that drying and like. More, it is more route revelatory of who he is so yeah. The Psycho Psycho hearing psycho battle I was like Oh. That's such a misogynistic, dismissive, shitty little term. I hate that. Right I know I totally agree, but at the same point I'm like I guess maybe they could dislike they. A defense lawyer could absolutely dismiss the idea of like drawing me meaning anything. Yeah a good one. Effect that John was flying pitcher is fucking crazy like not even a plane, just flying web it. So now they have the nine one one call in the hands of the big boys all right, and they're going to play the tape for Steve With enhanced audio, and they ask him to write down like basically whatever it is. He hears in Germany in her voice over says. Is this the part of the story where the hero finally saves the Princess and I'm like? Okay Johnny don't bury the lied about who fucking you know what I mean like. We got a like. We absolutely think you're Kil-jo so Steve is like listening to desk and he's just electrified by it. Many rates on everything's. He's heard he just can't believe at so. He explains to the FBI agent. Okay, I it's a woman and she saying help me. Jesus help me Jesus and then there's more distant boys saying please. What do I do and then we hear what sounds like John's voice, talking to a little boy, and then you know just like one more lie where the boy like basically sort of is dismissed so watching it. Watching it this time around watching. Patsy I was like that is very deliberate and manipulative. To say about the cancer and to say like don't take my I can't have more kids. That does look more to hear this time around. Welcomes has also. She did her her Khloe phase where she was really like she. You know wanted to make sure Linda her that it was quite pleased with herself when she felt, she effectively communicated at and while Linda like never. You! Know really shows a sign that she sees it for what it is I. Wish that they had sort of like called that out more she definitely you know I think she did see it for what it was so John is watching out the window as burke. You know stands in the yard. I think he's playing with a I think he's watching a squirrel So two months later the this case has consumed Steve at this point. He's obviously bringing his work home with him He's up really late when his life comes like out of out of the bedroom, and she's like it's two a m. you need to sleep and he is you know. Why are you reading about this before bed? And he basically tells her like listen. I don't think I can have kids anymore. Leg after all of this, he wouldn't be able to handle if anything like that ever happened to his kid and you know she says you got to figure something out because this is really ruining, you And by the way, how could it not like this work? For everything like you know, you can say about people who work in law enforcement. I truly feel in a situation like this like how could you? How could you deal with that like I would never know I would obsess over. I couldn't not think about it for sure. It's so even veterinarians I'm like. How do you do your job like? On go and cry every day. God I know. But yeah, so at this point we're going to the district attorney Interviewing the Ramseys and then we're going to go to the situation room again. You know I have to say I have to give this movie some credit. The pacing is fucking great. 'cause do a really good job of sort of like you know. They know that we know the details of you've never heard of this case for some reason. If you've been in a coma, maybe like this case will have enough details for you, but they are covering basically twenty years of investigation. A lot of it like nothing is really happening like that's also the thing with this cases like when I was a kid, I always dreamed. There was so much more. More going on that I just didn't know about and come to find out like it really was like there wasn't much they could do like. There wasn't a lot of information to work with. They weren't getting any like crazy. Hot Tips were not getting into that at all. All the other potential leads. We don't see any of that. It's very focused on justice sort of one theory that happened inside the house, and when outside you know in influencers come in glue. It! Nothing really comes Evatt right? Totally. I think there are still for that reason. A lot of people who are convinced that the family couldn't have done it. Because they were so focused on investigating them. Yeah, I think a lot of people feel like they had a crazy hard on for the Ramseys, and just you know wanted to sort of wrap things up and you know there are a lot of people that think you know what whatever idea version of events that happened in that House that night a lot of people, still there you know. There was an intruder, or if it wasn't burke, it was patsy and she snapped or something I mean. Your eye so when it comes to true crime, and when it comes to like figuring out what happened, I'm always of the belief of like Oxfam's razor of like the simplest answer is usually what fucking happen. You know what I mean like. Some some rain person? It's usually like when somebody disappears. It's gotta be the husband you know like. It's usually the most easiest apparent thing. That's what I think. Yeah I agree for the most part I really agree, and for you know for many years. It never even occurred to me. That could do it and Wednesday settled on the CBS specially. I was like Oh like Da, like of course like that all adds up to being him, but there are elements lake. I think of Are you familiar with like the Delphi case? where it was like two girls who were having a sleepover and the next day, they woke up early, excited enough to go to school, and they decided to go to this sort of Bray Jr. it's like an old railroad that is just a go would suspended saying it's almost like a local Historical site in some ways, but it's where a lot of kids go on days off just to. It's like a walking place for the community members, but also kids probably go there and smoke weed and shit all the time. They want to look at some new instaflex, so they went there. Their sister dropped him off. And then you know next thing we know. They never. They never come home. They don't get picked up. No one can find them. The next day they are found dead in A. Small Lake. River area wasn't completely completely covered by water, but they got a small river. I'm down the hill and no one knows who killed them. But because they were kids with cell phones, they were able to catch clips of this guy coming toward them on the bridge, and the police have a lot more information hopefully, but. Like. Nothing make sense in a case like that so many things like. Maybe they were trying to meet a guy like 'cause one of them the one who wiped her phone the night before like. Why would a kid wipe their whole phone unless? You didn't want to get caught doing so you go to the place of like. Maybe they were trying to meet a boy that they met online. They turned out to be this like creepy guy. Some people think that you know it was just like an absolute toxic man, and they probably like snickered at him, or gave him a weird luck. 'cause he did look sort of. they you know. Maybe he just was like he was pissed off. That this like you know. These kids were making fun of him, and he need to like kill them to get revenge There's also this weird thing in the video where it looks like his. Body is like stuffed with things. It looks like he has. Like materials in his pants and in his pocket, you can't tell if he just has wait on him or his jacket is stuffed with like tools basically to kill someone into this. Hey, there's no answer about what happened. It's been like two years. It's a case that I am completely obsessed with. And there is. There's so many things that make perfect sense like of like Oh. That's absolutely what could have happened, but there is no. There is no logical conclusion like I have no idea. It drives me nuts, and that's a little bit of what I feel like in this case like yes, the most obvious saying that someone in the House did it. I mean. I don't know they're just so weird. About there Yeah Weird For All the secrets they have in for all. We know they could be having a sex party that nobody. They don't want any of us to know about. You know what I mean. That's always i. mean that's a huge theory. I don't know if you've like dove into that at all, but like I I love conspiracy theory unlike there's a Lotta people that think that John was part of a pedophile rings. And that they that he was. You know basically trying to sell Jon Benet into a pedophile ring up the I like that's a huge one as that like. He's involved in some cabal shed, or whatever like really deep pizza gate level shed about like the people he was involved with and the groups he was involved with, and I don't know if you're familiar with the fact that like another girl locally I was killed by a guy, and then after patsy died, John started dating the dead girl's mom what? Yes so like that all really ties into it to where it's like Oh my God will be. It is much more insidious than we think that you get much dirtier than someone. Covering up the murder of their child like. Maybe maybe it could be not a foreign faction just like a pedophile faction. Yeah! Wow I have never heard that theory, and that is bonkers and I can't wait to go on Reddit and look more into it. Well Yeah because like the pageant circuit. I mean come on like unless you're a parent with fucker you doing their. Attract large audiences in. It's not as if they like. Check your sex offender record in order to get into a pageant. So who knows, but let's pay forty, eight, fifty, two, fifty, one, forty six. We live dinner at the wines at approximately sore thirty PM. The last thing she ate was cracked crab. At the whites. She's asleep the card. Carried her up and. No I did not check the doors where the windows fat night. I don't know this patchy slip on the conference or I did not write that note. Where was burke when you found the note and called nine one one? Asleep. Every puzzle can be solved except sometimes you lose the pieces. Forget where you put them or put the pieces from one puzzle in the box for a different puzzle, but if you find all the right pieces, you can solve the puzzle for sure. Eating ask anything about the investigation your topsy. House. Daughter was killed nothing. and. That's the second daughter. He's lost, he's. Traumatized. What's happening with the nine one one call? Private firms with some more cutting edge. We've got the market. That wrote the note. It's an exclusive mass from the pot of pens, not far from the PAT in the kitchen. They staged it. It was an accident and they staged it to look like a blown kidnapping. Don't jump to any conclusions. How does a lot of there? And if it was an accident than how? And, why? To avoid bad press. A kidnapping isn't any better. We're just looking at the evidence. We have in front of us and why such a horrific staging! What else are we? Are We tracking the pedophile? Who may have attended her pageants? Yeah. It's a lot to process. What's going on with housekeeper? We're doing a handwriting analysis. Okay well, don't get locked into only one theory. Keep pushing on all fronts. We need to talk to them to the ramseys separately an unprepared which isn't going to happen at this time. The DA's words not mine. And according to the Ramseys new lawyers, they'll take written questions, but they want to review everything in our case filed before they talk to the police. What. Okay. Cracked Crab, I think that is so funny. Know why she's so proud of it, too. Like yeah, we had a crash dinner cracked crab okay I. Mean They are so? Like they're just they. They are so defensive and so insulted that anyone would dare. Remote the details of their daughter's murder and you know I hate to say guys, but even if you're not suspects, you're GonNa have to talk to the cops. If you want your the murderer of your daughter to be caught like what's with, you, know patsy going on TV and saying you know there's there's a guy out there. There's a terrible man out there. That's you know killed my daughter. What's that and then not willing to work with the police yet? If your kid gets killed, or if your? God forbid somebody close to you gets killed. You're going to be the number one suspect probably. Right but I mean all the more reason to like have full transparency you know, and by the way I you know I don't have a kid, if for some reason I acquire a daughter, and she gets murdered in. I have to cover for for some reason the first thing I'm GonNa do is start throwing out theories and names of people I can go distract the police with like Patsy Guy Works at movies meter lake, complimentary daughters dress like fucking. Send them after him like literally being if I wanted to deflect I would be sending them on a wild goose chase. especially, especially now, because like you know that the Internet is GonNa, go down Daig up some of those theories, and go down those rabbit holes, and do the work for you of core God if I have to read about that fucking Santa Guy. Or Man Working Christmas Eve. All of a sudden everyone's like yeah, he's a pedophile murderer. Mean that guy's name is still you know probably floating out there at attached to this case. Talk about needing reputation defender Dot com so we see some more home-video Dominati running around the stuffed bear. We now learn it is day one twenty eight I mean. As? We know if the first forty eight hours of. Art officially investigated. This is one hundred twenty days out right. It's it's crazy that the ramseys were even legally allowed to go that long without being brought in. On it is so white privilege like so crazy. Oh, my God. Are you kidding me like if they were not white, an incredibly wealthy immune, probably even if they were incredibly wealthy, and just not white, burke would be in CPS for sure in the foster system. They would both be in jail to this day like fluently absolutely so Linda comes in and says that the DA she goes into the cheese office and she basically. Basically says that the DA suspended any testing at CBI. There's still unidentified male DNA in her underwear and you know the chief is like worried about the amount of heat they're taking for all of this went down and he decides. He's going to take her off the case She's pleased. All like I'm building a relationship with PAT. See like that can be really helpful. She's right. And he's like sorry, but you're off and so. We see at this point. The media circus is even crazier. There's people you know outside of the House all the time in Germany says. Always said lots of people would see me. My God again. It's just so insulting like I feel like I've met six year. Olds who are far more advanced than they're portraying her then like. You know like more precocious like not so like it's a puzzle like it's just call it what it is Jon Benet. Right right right. fucking dirty all right. We know she's not dumb. What stop making her to be this dumb kid? Yeah and like Super Infantile Camman so Stephen Linda, both look at the evidence the way that they do all day every day. you really like I started to feel heavy for them about how frustrating those must have been for them, and then Linda carries a box to her car. Steve Pulls up in Caesar and he's like what's going on, and she's like I'm not staying on a desk job like I'd just rather quit, and she s Steve to promise her that he's GonNa. See this through and so this is like the promise he made. He carries this with him. This is like now. He's that guy. He's promised. Guy Young Man of his word guy so the detective was there that day I'm when she went missing the leather. Dadi talks to fleet and his wife about what happened after the funeral in Atlanta and he's like nothing you know we went back to. We went back to my house and he says that you know that. He seemed like there were there were some agitation there or something, and he he basically said not yeah, you know I had a little disagreement John's brother and asked him and his team to basically stay out of things and then. You know he said that Priscilla in him, just basically plainly spoke their minds it was. It was like a friend thing, so he wants to know if anyone corroborate without an, he's like yeah or corroborate that. You know. Are you suggesting that we had anything to do with this? So now? Fleet is like fucking done because he realizes. Oh, this is starting to like to me again I. Don't know if this was intentional by the police, but I think that this was a huge turning point for the case, because now fleets like bucket. I'm done with these people all right. So he goes to the captain, and he demands a statement saying that they had nothing to do with this, and they're basically like we can't talk about an open investigation and you know. Can You promise me John and Patsy didn't say anything about this happens again. I can't really comment on an ongoing investigation and so fleet demands that he makes a statement. Now we're on day. One seventy eight the police are being absolutely roasted by the media for botching this, which is true i. mean not was a huge part of the narrative was at the cops absolutely fucked up. in Steve Says when the DA forces them to show their entire hand the tape. It's still going to stay with them. and then they find out. Okay. We're actually bringing in this independent expert named loose met. He's a really big deal. I mean Steve Right away knows his name and he's like he's a legend. He did the Heather Dawn Church case, and like one hundred and forty nine others the DA is not going to start a jury yet, but they are bringing on Smith to help their case so this is a gigantic development for them. This must been like such A. Breath of fresh air for him to know that he's not alone in this anymore Fleet goes downstairs to talk to Priscilla early in the morning, his robe on, and they both look just like completely exhausted like this is sucked the life out of them more than the ramseys. It seems like physical told that this has had on them. Hundred percent so priscilla's reading the paper. Play the clip. It is fifty six, forty, two to fifty, seven, forty four. Couldn't sleep. Think. Anyone will actually read the police statement. I'm not looking at the statement. Last summer months before this happened. Barb Bernie, pointed out that damaged or the patsy. We thought someone had tried to break in. She said it had been John Traveling always forgetting his keys. Possible point of entry she knows. She knows what that is. People may not have liked. The pageants or the sexy outfits are everything that Patsy was putting Jon Benet into. But an innocent six year old girl is dead. Last meal. who going to start standing up for the truth around here? So, we find out that the door has been broken this whole time. This was like you know i. mean we gotTa talk about this House. I mean I am a single female homeowner? I can't recommend it like there are so many days where I just would have. I would do anything for another pair of hands around the house, or at the very least like just enough expendable lake, just like an insane amount of cash, so it could throw money and he's. Ripe, these people have enough money to fix a broken mock and fix a broken window. Why are they? So? Why do they lacks security and I understand that? This was a different time. This was still a time where a lot of people left their back door open, or they would leave the house without locking their doors, especially if they lived in a small town or community where things were generally safely, people were much more relaxed with safety back then yeah, and I also think it's too like Nothing's going to happen to up. Nothing's GonNa. Happen to us. Right, I mean yeah, and that is like a totally. That is complete privilege. Absolutely I just find it so interesting and very telling honestly. For people who were so obsessed with appearances to have such major things wrong with their house like it. You know it's very lake. Okay? Things are fine on the outside, but once you get inside, you realize we have broken windows or fucking door lock doesn't work like my daughter peas the bed. It seems like her sheets were never changed. Fill time. Yeah, crazy! How things got really overgrown in that house and I think sort of I mean I know it speaks to my mental health when my place is this shit? Show Lakers, GonNa, sort of speaks to the families mental health a little bit Yeah it's it's really it's really bizarre to me that there were so many ways that someone could have easily gotten into this house from. Yes so. Steve is eating at his desk I'm playing a lot of clubs, but a lot of them are short again because the pacing in this movie was really great, really good. But also you know. Outside of the sort of exposition I think it is kind of funny to see how these how these characters are for trade, and a Lou is you know he's like the lone flake when Lou rawls up. He has a Bolo tie on has glasses like a little string on his glasses? Older Lou has his own style like he is that person who's coming into town? Shake things up In, whether or not Lou was a big help. You know we will ever know like. Unfortunately, we won't ever know. I remember hearing through a friend that there was one major loophole that was open, and it was involving a lawsuit and I am part. Pardon me for not remembering which exactly which one it was, but I think also. Maybe that's good, because this is somewhat like low, key information, but. Basically a there is a loophole that be that could come from all of this. That's like not directly related to the case, but related enough where if they were able to get them on this one thing, John Ramsey would have to be completely deposed about what happened in that, House that night And it, and so like you know I, hold out some faith in some hope that either this man will perjure the fuck out of himself or finally some day we'll get to hear all of it, but I mean. How are they not? Deposed like I mean y I know legally speaking. That's like you know not. Not Common for someone who hasn't been arrested to be deposed, but it's like I don't know. I just think that there Lack, of desire to be helpful to the police. In any way is like Raymond guy like, would you? Wouldn't you think the plea? Their side so to like find the murderer. She you like playing along. Yeah, when if you'RE GONNA? Try and pull this off. pull off the impossible play along. So fifty, seven, fifty, six to one minute and fifteen seconds is where we meet Liu. Detective Smith. Liu. Steve. Thomas. It's an honor. That Jon Benet. Yeah. TOLD HER THAT WE'RE GONNA solve this. Is something. These. Are All cases. I've been privileged. To help solve. We're going to get her to. Yes, we are. Sure you around. About ready to pull out. Done. I don't think I've ever seen more compromised crime scene in my entire career. Yeah! There were mistakes made. These people. Contaminated, doesn't even describe it. How do you account for that? They thought they were showing up to a kidnapping. Just kidnapping. Basic police work. Fundamentals. Go under the Ramseys feel exposed. I went to. Music in this movie by the way, if this was like a regular season and we were reading this, I have to say font off the chart. We're getting some standard typography. The music in this movie, though is so extra, it is just another level. I love the line in this part where he's like mistakes were made. It's like yeah, that's the understatement of the century crazy. While, but also at the same time I'm like come on Lou like you're not telling. Steve Anything. He doesn't know already right. If you've could turn back time and make things different, I'm sure he would I know. He would same thing with Linda like. It was like Linda was watching a car crash after a car crash in that house side day of evidence, being completely destroyed and I'm Kinda like Lou. They know they know that uncle. This. Go easy on the guys. But it, also towards the end of that work, he was like no wonder. They feel exposed like it does seem like there's some sort of motivation there to come to the aid of the family, which is like why he has so many, you know. His theories are very distracting from. The narrative that the cops have had which is probably a good thing. You need to destroy things sometimes in order to get progress made, but it also feels like he really complicated things. I mean this is a real never major heroes moment for Steve Right definitely. He definitely complicated chat. Yeah so Jon Benet says I made drawing once at school. The teacher thought it was a horse. My friend, it was a fish. It was a picture of me. I wish someone saw that I saw that. Spa. Wow, that's just you know first of all. That's deep Germany but it. Sounds like you? You're really much of an artist I'm. That's sort of an advanced thought to give her can based off of everything else now like she was hybrid of a Horse on fetch. As Steve Tells Lou that the Ramseys are moving to Atlanta and he has to hand over the whole case. File and Liu says that he doesn't think the RAMSEYS had. To do with it, and so after all this time, this is when he like has come up with the intruder theory and you present said he thinks it was someone who was spotted at Christmas was spotted her at the Christmas parade. Or one of her pageants. that. Make Sense. He broke into the house when they were out. And you got familiar with the layout in then he sat down and he wrote the ransom note. He waited until around twelve when he crept upstairs in a mobilized her with a Taser. Taser isn't loud when it's applied directly to the skin, you then brought her down to the basement and tried to have his way with her, which is why he taped her mouth, inbound her arms, and then when she woke up, she screamed in rip the tape off. which I mean I, he never said like when she would have reapplied the tape, but I guess the implication is that it seemed like tape had been ripped off more than once in remote area and then when she woke up, she screamed and struck her with a flashlight. He panicked in the basement in forgot his ransom. Note downstairs and Steve. Just like you know, we can't believe that. He came to this conclusion and just seventy two hours like usually murders. Aren't he's glue- says that basically like murderers. Murders aren't always what they seem. Things. Go wrong all the time I mean. Let's entertain this for a moment. I I wonder if the Ramsey's paid off Lou. That's a great thought. That's a great thought. Because I mean it's. It's It's hard to believe. That he would come in and. With I mean unless unless that's his his. The main purpose of his job is just as sort of upset. The track that it seems like police are going down potentially at a laziness like. Maybe it's his out of the box. Thinking that makes him so good at what he does, but. In this particular case, it seems like he's so. He's so convinced that the ramseys couldn't have possibly done it. You do feel like yeah, like. Maybe he was being paid off right like. I don't know like he doesn't even examine the additional evidence for the ramseys doing. I think also that thing with Lou is like he carries the pictures of his victims in his pocket like it's. Very clear that he has a deep emotional attachment to these kids, and maybe there's a part of him. That can't face the reality that a parent would do something like this to their child right true. That's so that's so dark. He I know Oh God, so Stephen is partner basically feels like this goes against all the evidence that they have and to them. It's completely clear that this was the situation went wrong in the house. It was covered up in stage to look like something else, and then Steve says that you know C. tells them listen I was a fan of the case. You did with Heather Dawn Church leg. That case was amazing or family was accused in. They didn't do it in. You know it was an outsider, but that's not going to be every case. That's not the blueprint. and Liu says that no the blueprint is evidence determining theory, not theory determining evidence. Okay Lou SAS. So. That's the other thing with Lou to is like I. Feel like you can't tell Lou no Oh No! WHO's the boss? Lose the boss. Yeah, absolutely. Totally. Yeah, so he does Steve. This is know this is your first homicide Steve. You're acting like you know everything and his partner hotels Lou. That he's wrong. That known in the department will agree with him in at the FBI won't either so he excuses himself and at this point I kinda thought he was off the case, but I should have known lou better by now. Lake nothing out Liu so. He we see Alex, hunter the Boulder District Attorney. He goes on TV to talk about this. And then we hear a clip of John and Patty at home than after that we're GONNA. See Steve Talking to fleet in Priscila and then finally a scene of fleet and Priscila talking to the governor, so this scene rate here is one of three, thirty, eight or these scenes one of three thirty eight to one. Oh, six fifteen. You won't find too many people in this department agreeing with you, Lou. Or the FBI or any other agencies taking a look at this. It's not the first time. Telling. I want to say something to the person or persons that committed this crime. I mentioned the list of suspects narrows. Soon, there will be no one on the list. But you. This is nice a university professor. So me on television and says he would stake his reputation them. John. I feel like. The people that are supposed to be protecting Jon Benet. Aren't. That includes the DA. To suggest that we need legal counsel to deal with our own district attorney, but. That's just it. We don't trust him anymore. Neither, do we? He's been accused in a national magazine of being incompetent. It's been almost a year. He's done nothing for Jon Benet. The lawyers that I've been speaking with in Denver made a suggestion that could just help us. Get a fair hearing with the grand jury. But I can't do it by myself. How can we help? We want you to appoint a special prosecutor. To take the case completely away from Hunter and politics and EGO governor. Everyone seems to forgotten that this is about a murdered six year old girl. Yes I think they have. Let me consider it. Thank you governor? Is Not going to do a thing. So then what? His boss the people who elected him. He's. Okay so I mean. Yeah, just in case you were wondering if these people were rich and powerful, I mean they're sitting with the governor like it's no thing I mean you know the governor is dying to make this. Go Away to though like I feel like the whole state was just up in arms about this, and then it's a bad laura forever. Aby, it was a tough. It was a tough doug aid for Colorado. I gotta say. There was. But yes. Oh! I mean I love that they turned on their best friends. I really do I i. don't know if what I I don't know how I would handle this. If like I, I discovered that my best friends were possibly capable of this. Right I don't know how I would either, but then I'm thinking about it and like. They're talking about Justice Jon Benet, but like is Jon, Benet, wanting looking down from heaven, wanting to see her parents go to jail. You know what I mean. It's all about it's about us. It's about us wanting to know what happened. It's not about Jon Benet. New Maybe? We just found out there. Atheists than they don't think that Jon. Benet is on the other side. They just. You know there. We go the white family atheists, but. I mean like. I found all of this lake. Just kind of incredible. Honestly I live in a big space of denial. Most of the time I don't think I would be able to be honest with myself if I thought my friend. Was this close to getting away with it I think it depends on how who the friends are. Like if it were my best best best friend. Oh my God I don't know it would take me a minute. Right you? You don't I mean. Like there is something wrong with patsy. Shirt the peak of her day is that someone wrote to her and said like Oh. You know I would defend you, but. Can we talk about the fact that they do another weird close up on John? Who they also did a close up of his bad tongue for some reason, they like focused on his is in his. Pupils, are fucking saucers, and I end like it's such a close shot that you can see the actors contacts, but like again. Why? Why now like? Is is are we supposed to think that John's on molly leg is not name. It's gotta be that he's. He's the directors implying the John's on drugs or something. Or like it's just a lazy ass moment I mean bank more on the second. I I would be shocked if John. As a response is developed atoll, addiction or something, but. Anyway. So now day three, hundred, seventy one. The newspaper prints an open letter from the white family It's a full page I. I don't know if it just deserved that type of real estate, or if they bought an ad or something, but like you can tell this is a big day for the whole town. They basically say that this was the fault of John and Patsy for not fully cooperating. We ru fair. Basically John and Patsy read this and proxies like well. What kind of people return on their friends like this? In John's like? Yeah, that's what the public's going to think to like wh. Who are these people credible? If they're going to sell out their own friends, what's her? My God like he's more concerned about like he's just so not bothered. He thinks he's completely immune to it. Right I mean he lives? He's one of those people that lives in like an altered state of reality. These people fascinate me. Where like they see something that means like one thing. It's right there in black and white like it means exactly what does end. You've already written off this whole thing because you're like well, who would possibly believe people who would betray their friends? I'm like John No. One else is reading this with your eyes. No one thinks that way. but yeah, so the COP says that the noise on the nine one one call. There's a copy exactly. That it had gotten out the DA. Basically released the tape. It was like just a move. In so there's this cop outside who I don't think we've ever seen before. WHO's smoking a cigarette and he's like getting up in Steve's face. It said I scream at you. And and seems like no I heard something else i. swear it was like. You know what did I do wrong, and so he goes. What you hear is subjective. A Japanese person would hear Domo. Ari Gatto. Frenchmen would here parlayed. I. For some reason. This cop is such a creek late. Nothing makes me laugh harder than like A. Demented individual like what administered. It's like you know obviously. This hits much more heavy. That is you know. He's a fucking racist COP. Like just flippantly making declarations, but you know it's it's just it's such a character. It's such a type of person. My God. Yeah, it's such a cop character. Ninety S COP character. Yeah Oh Parlay Francais. That's what French people here absolutely so they are. So lose back to share some more thoughts with Steve and then after that we're going to hear the first injury with the police that they were able to get with the RAMSEYS. This is in late August of nineteen ninety nine. Wow! Like. Wow. Yeah! The first interview was like two full years later to two years like six months later. been had their trial by then convicted. Who else can make something last long? Except for the ridiculously rich, it's like the wall Goering, Laughlin in like Moss, emoji a newly thing where it's just like you guys spent millions of dollars to prolong this long enough by the grace of guide for you, a pandemic happens, and then all of a sudden. You're like well. I can make a plea like I'll cooperate now you get no sundance. You get Dang it paying child. Their fines are less than what they paid USC thing. It's like a hundred and fifty thousand dollar discrepancy while amazing amazing. It for them. Okay so another clip. Sorry, this end part is a little heavy, but I wanNA. Make sure you guys here this one. Oh, seven fifty to one eleven thirty nine. Should have given me the tapes. entomologist about these webs Lou. An intruder would have destroyed them and wiped all the dust off the window so not so fast I. I'm sorry, are you saying the spider spun them back for a photo op? That's why we need to talk to an entomologist for God's sake Lou Is there an outside chance of that? I guess there is. Is there an outside chance that the person killed there in the basement and then ran the flashlight upstairs to the kitchen there is. But forgot the ransom note on the stairs. There are no there isn't because an outside chance of this an outside chance of that one hundred other. This adds up to an outside chance of the whole thing there. You go again, detective. You're letting the cart. Lead the horse. You know what I want to see. Do you want to see John Ramsey hanging by his neck? Know? Where was the John Ramsey that lost his first daughter in a car accident? He was inconsolable, devastated bedridden for weeks over a car accident. Where was that John Ramsey I can't say I've never lost two daughters before. Let me ask you this. Where does the Garad fit into your card? Why bother was something so sadistic so cruel, and what about the unknown male DNA in her underwear? That is Steve Steve. I've seen this before Steve. You're out to prove something. It's got nothing to do with this case. If, you guys are finished in here. Hunter just got a letter from Ramsay. Saying your grand jury won't be necessary for them to talk. What a surprise going in front of a grand jury or do an interview. Tough Choice. Shopping! Slowly this spiral stairs to bed with my behind her. Asleep. TERRIER! Say that the. Someone told name you. And They Fisher Department. Priscilla has attracted just like that one I was. Choose the. House. Harrison just sleep. Pretending. Will you. Swear. You didn't do this. I, swear to God. Did you. Prepare for this conversation. I told you we trace. Evidence appears to the death of your daughter. Not Kill my child I didn't have a thing to do with it anyone else. Your wife! Swear to God I. Don't give a flying. Out Scientific. Swear to. Legally Do. Not Do this. Okay. She did not do it. Rolex. John. was. No I have not. Prior to night, she was killed. I! You're talking about. There's a lot there. First of all I want to say that I've always I. Since I was my twenty fifth birthday. I've incorporated Jon Benet into my birthday in some way whether she's on my invitation. Or, something and a few years ago. I had A. Cotton Candy Company Make Me Pineapples. That was called the Burke Ramsey wow I love after you like a bar in New York and it was really funny, 'cause. Girls started to walk up to me and we're like. Do you like, do you? What listen to my favorite murderer? You Murderer Reno. As like, yes, I am but also. I am a a huge stand of this case. in Georgiana Karen like we're dying about my birthday invitation on the show one day, which is how I have Mosa listenership for podcast. That's amazing, but yeah, I mean it is. She's a piece of iconography in a way like that I kind of just she always. You know like I kind of. Can't get over the image of her, and like I've just always been so alert. By, it was just very alluring, so. Like. Okay, let's talk about the vaginal trauma. What which yeah no fun to talk about, but we gotta get into it. Okay okay. I never I never wanted to discuss my vaginal trauma but on. especially that of young girl. Okay so idea that came to me when I was watching. Do you think Lou was possibly part of the pedophile? Oh Wow I. Think Lou is definitely like. Up like on their side somehow. When I was watching this. How can it not feel that way, right? I mean this. They're trying to really paint Steve. As the hero in this, and I believe that the first movie they made was based off of Steve's book, So lifetime has Steve Bias and like they obviously are trying to paint Lou as someone who with the best intentions. Came in in spent a Lotta time deflecting from what was obvious. Right I mean at the. Maybe he's the pedophile ring. He possibly as in the pedophile ring at the same time, you know as much as Lou and that other detective who plays devil's advocate fucking suck like they are necessary for the telling of this story to Chicago, basically how the law works and how? You can't just arrest someone because this is the only logical thing that makes sense like time her to really dig their heels in in Lake you. You know feel like they've they've got. Those characters need to be there to disrupt I do feel bad because Liu worked on this till the day he died. many died I think in two thousand ten, so I mean. He spent many many years of his life completely consumed with this case minute never really sat with him. So in some ways. I'm Kinda like It's a little. To his memory that it was what we just watched I'm like comedown lake. You're going a little. You're going a little bit too hard. Okay so as for the. Vaginal. Situation. Do you think that she was being molested over a long time? Do you think that maybe there was an accident? Like I think it could like? There are accidents that could explain vaginal trauma, but not prolonged vaginal trauma. Did his say prolonged for sure. Has. That's what he said to That's what the detective said to Patsy, and she was very like. You know kind of incredulous about it where she was like. Oh, mcclay prior to that night. I don't think that she knew if something was going on I. Don't think that she knew if I'm being perfectly honest with you. Although I think that's something that a lot of parents willingly unknow if they can yeah, but I also think again for me I think it's burke I think that. If. He's wiping feces on his little sister. Then there's no telling what else he's doing to her as well so I. I kind of agree with I. Hate to say it, but I. do think that Burke was probably I mean he's nine lake. It's not as much as we don't want to think that like a nine year old. Would have any sort of like. Sexual, but they were but. They Let's face it. A nine year. Old boy absolutely dies lake so I wouldn't be like completely shocked especially because it seems like these kids were kind of raised on they kind of raise themselves in some ways like burke was very sort of independent within the house from everything. We've seen like the fact that he's up at night making pineapples milk by himself like he knows his way around yet life. And, I wouldn't be surprised if he had some sort of knowledge, our exposure to like sexual materials, and it's just another way that he sort of took out his anger on his sister. No, that kid is like a little hacker. On the Internet in Nineteen ninety-six finding porn like totally totally boobs dot, com, dude, it's right there. But yeah. I okay so. In terms of. Her defending Burke when patsy besides Burke Ramsey did not do this. I can't help, but think of like the classic. Sort of people reading technique of people when they don't use contractions are much more likely to be lying. Relate when they something back and they say burke didn't like instead of saying he did not like that is contractions are normal. There's something that like you would normally employers employees just like whatever when you go and say do like he did not, and you're being very like very few words or malady, wanting to make sure someone really hears you. which is what I got from her in that scene like she seemed so over this. She couldn't believe that she had to be answering these questions all these years later. for some reason, burke like Koch to being awake the whole time. Pretending to sleep. Yeah, that's weird. Whigham, unlike let's explore that more right. There's no way some almost silently. Doing this right. I didn't know that thing about the contractions, but that makes so much sense. It's like thou dost protest too much like if you really emphatically saying that. That's you're protesting too much. People do it all the time like once you once you learn that you sort of can't hear it when you're trying to figure out of someone's lying to you or not, and obviously that's like anything else like when people say. Oh, you look to the left when you're lying like all that kind of bullshit at the end of the day, but it was noticeable to me and I think that was a direct like those parts directly like. From the rail tapes The, Pineapple, I wish we because that did turn out to be the smoking gun. Yeah, they don't mention it too much here. No, I think this movie was sort of made in response to this CBS documentary and like all the sixty minutes, and all the different dateline step that was going on at this time. This was meet around the same time and so. I'm. Out there and I don't know why they didn't include dot because they feel that was like that's the thing you know the pineapple right, so it's day found pineapple in her stomach and the theory. Is that she that that was burks favorite? Snack and she tried to steal it from him, and he flipped out and killed her. Yes in so like it almost makes sense lake. He's territorial about food, which is would probably explain why. He flipped the fuck out on the therapist who? The Soda Yeah He's like one of those people who's I. Don't touch my stuff. which a lot of kids are that kid? And they don't kill people, but. Yet it was. It was something that I definitely that definitely. That felt similar, so the painting I gotta say like what a Weird! Weird favorite dessert for a kid to have so gross. That sounds so close to me. It's very crab legs from its nineteen fifties dining yet. It's very like Waldorf Salad. Yeah are you familiar with Damon's and Glendale no a good. It's like well I. Like it because it's like sort of local. Kind like! Yeah, it's good. It's steaks and stuff like that. It's like a tiki themed restaurant, but it's a really old l.. A restaurant in one of the ways that they sort of keep that feeling authentic is they have the original menu they had in the thirties or whatever and it's all shit like pineapple in milk, and that is like it's kind of interesting. How like old school? They might, they were, and some of those ways where their kid would know about that and casually make it for himself flake. This family is sort of throwback easy in a lot of. And I think I don't know if it's because the mom was southern, or what, but yeah, I agree. Yeah Steve Finishes, watching interviews and he knows at this point that nothing is going to come out of this. He basically has given up and he feels like everyone is just laughing at them, There's another check to their partner. Who Has Steve what he wants to do about it? And he says he's GonNa. Walk like what's he? GonNa do after all this bad guy in the. Maybe they'll prosecute him. He's basically lost. All faith in this process in feels like if he walks away, that might be the closest. He gets making a statement about how he feels about this. Case 'em how you know how he's being helped In Germany goes wait. The detective isn't supposed to quit. He's supposed to solve the puzzle. Why is this is? How the story supposed to go. So Stephen. Put on another tape his favourite tape of Jon, Benet with the hose. It's her in the yard you know. That's the part of it. That doesn't sit well with me. For some reason. I don't think he's got creeper. Do not! It's kind of a weird way to show his connection Dr Maybe Steve's in the pedophile ring I. Know like honestly. How fucking deep does this go to your sleep? So. The governor reads a statement that Steve is retiring from the newspaper and he's like Oh actually pretty well written Tells, US. Assistant that may be the whites were right. They should hire a special prosecutor. Steve Meets with the whites, and they are bringing in Mike Kane who's like a big shot from town He's going to be the guy. Lou Hands Letter to the chief outside of the court when they're about to do this jury thing and he says I will not be part of the persecution persecution of innocence so. Are. Sold on them. Being in a sense a real raging hard on for them being an then. tells us that Liu, told the jury intruder killed her and kept trying approve it until he died in two. Twenty ten, the grand jury is in session. We see so then thirteen months later. The AD makes statements saying that the grand jury has done a great job with all of this, and that he and the Prosecution Task Force believed that they don't have enough as evidence to bring charges against anyone in. They've investigated so far. and so I think what happened from this. If I'm if I'm following correctly as the jury did make some decisions, but ultimately they felt like they didn't have the evidence to go through with that, but they did like a soft survey of the of this jury. Didn't. They recommend that they'd be indicted? And then they just were never indicted. I mean I think the. The one who said like eighty is like it all checks out here for me, yeah! I don't know I don't know. I think that was in the sixty minutes. Thing is that they were supposed to be indicted and they just never were. Yolo I mean I. Guess like three months after this is the title cards at the end, but three months after that grand jury met together. The case. expired in terms of statute of limitations. Should not be statute of limitations on the murder of a child. Sexually assaulted I. Mean That's just fucking insane to me like the fact that. There's a statute of limitations on like you know a child being molested, and like you know they might have that realization years later where the person who hurt them is. Working. You know with kids or whatever it just it. Those things should just socially. Out of all the laws we have in this country. I feel like that should be one. Night is adjusted so. The Whites Watch. All this. UNFOLD ON TV and they are infuriated. They're walking away with no answers and Steve Watches with his wife and she tells him that he did everything he could. and. He Says No I. Didn't I gave up any walks out of his office and. Visit looks at his picture of Jon Benet in. He says you know. I made a promise and now I need to tell the truth, so he writes a book about being inside the investigation and right away, he sued for a variety of things specifically one of them being that he used inside police information stuff that really I mean honestly I'm kind of. Stunned that. He thought he could get away with that right, but good for him. I guess like of even the publisher like A. Why would you take that on? A lot of people feel like this was a publicity grab for him and that he was really trying to profit off of her name. the Ramsey is right their own account. What happened that paints pretty much completely opposite picture. we're seeing like basically all the media this shows up in. People are building websites that contain the evidence in. The public is very invested in this so then in two thousand six. The phone rings at the Ramsey House in patsy picks up. It's her doctor informing her that she needs to come in. This is one you know leading up to her out. She has cancer, so then Stephen Linda catch up with some drinks on the back porch. this May, there's something in here. That made me think of use ZIP ugly. And then we go to the Atlanta palliative centre right after that so one twenty to one twenty to thirty. I think job trimming trees. My boss is I. Keep Name Carlos. He's nineteen. I read your book. My Legal Bill. Yeah. All Goalie. Everything. Sorry. I still think about her sometimes. Not a day goes by the. Yeah. Thousand the lie. I, think about it all the time. I hear patsies cancers back. Not. Well I gotta get to work. What are you doing now? I started a small carpentry business. That fits good. Good to see STI. You Youtube. Patsy. You once asked me to find jonbenet's killer. And I told you I would. PATSY! Just you John Burnett that house. Is, there something you WanNa tell me now. Why what a good scene! Yeah, it's great I love that if This is true that Linda had the ball St-. To show up to patsies. But. The part that made me think of you. In the beginning, when Linda says, she had to take a job cutting down trees, and she has a nineteen year old boss. I. Was Thinking that is such. A Natalie beach move. Like. The same feeling that I had in the Carolinas I was Caroline Caldera's say. where I'm like you know. Natalie. You could've worked inside of the whole foods like series. Doubt that leg. You were so homely that you couldn't get a job at the gap lake you had. You had to take the toughest job possible. Rates she's like working in a steel mill. Go straightening. Holloway's book. which just like I would I couldn't I couldn't never write that essay like obviously caroline socks, too, but like not as Sade, really like got under my skin, and when when just hearing Linda Day that she took on this absolutely unnecessary labor for her to take on like she's not anymore qualified to do that than she is still like fold t shirts at sears right right right right I like what a Natalie beach moved. Go get the job. That is the most. Most, physically intensive, and like personally for some reason degrading thing to you and also my secret theory is that Natalie could have worked inside the whole foods. She likes watering the lettuce and she can own it own it now. When the lettuce wasn't that bad for you, this is so funny because on my podcast, we say all the time that all roads lead back to Caroline Calloway and they do. Oh, trust me, I mean. I was looking for an excuse to bring this? No. because. We are so close to wrapping this up. And this is just like a clear in to talk about what it is. You do on your podcast. Yes, to know about all this I need to know all the T- like I need to know your thoughts on caroline. I need to know what you think is like the most interesting scam you've covered because your podcast is all about basically breaking down scam yes. Oh, my God so caroline! We sent someone undercover to her. Artist retreat to go as gas and then report on it and. She said it was hilarious. Caroline was an hour late and gave them a gift bag with a stick. And a candle and a votive candle in it, and it's just crazy I go back and forth on Carolina sometimes. I feel bad for her. And then I'm on this sub read. It called small bean snark, and that subrata is like no, she's manipulating you manipulate. She wants you to feel bad for her like with her dad's death, and all this stuff so I go back and forth between thinking she's not scammer, and then, but this latest round of her like monetize ing, and doing an only fans, and like shitting on sex workers, but then trying to be like a like a high class. Sex worker is made me like dislike her truly to the car. We asked her to come on when we did our episode on her. She shared it and said that we were bowling her. which we were, we were like very objective, but clearly she didn't listen to it. We emailed her manager to come on, and she respectively declined. But she is the one that keeps on giving. She's fascinating. I got really into the dark web for one episode which I liked to. There's so much shit on there. You can. Yeah can buy like credit card. Numbers and Mike. Do Real scamming. It's to say the least like the dark web is is truly I mean not on another level. What happens on there? It's not like you can watch human sacrifices on there my God. It's crazy. Have you heard of Red Rooms I've? Is that like where murderers happening? Basically. It's like a live streamed room where like a human being is getting tortured, and it's like a vegas betting events like really wealthy. Get together, and like watch this person get tortured, and you can pay extra money to have a certain type of torture unto them, and it's like it's. It's what you think. People who are have so much money and so much access like when they get bored. It's exactly what you would think. They would do to cure that boredom linkages just. You should not be able to buy an. They have figured out a way to do it and it's really sick. Shit like it's. It's really sick. Shit and I think there's more of it going on than people could possibly consider like normal. People just don't think like that. I have to look at. That sounds crazy. Also, I'm obsessed with Epstein. And the Epstein case because that is just like there's so much to unravel there and so many people who are tied up in it and so many people lying about shit obsessed. It's great. I I'm obsessed with that too, and I don't know if you've seen on Google I'm sure you have like the Drone footage of his island, yes. And like it, you I mean you know looking at it. Everything has to be going on underground like what is under that thing is the question like it's just it's A. I go to all sorts of places about what capacity down there. I saw some account with some neighbor or like, or maybe it was like a drone through the window or something. That's dental chairs like I. Don't know what Kinda Shit he has. New netflix documentary like barely scratched the surface, sh-. Oh, I haven't seen that yet. It's like four episodes. It's probably the shit that you already know. Yeah I mean okay. Listen I don't want to be too repetitive because I did. Talk about a little bit about caroline. with the previous guests. WHO's obsessed about with this, too, but I feel like you are like the resource soy really WanNa. Talk more about it. I have to say I am codependent person to a fault. I am like disgustingly overly empathizing. Like I can find a reason to make an excuse for anyone I'm on the team of people that Kinda didn't think that her quote. Unquote artist retreat was a scam as much as it was just like a MIS marketed meet-and-greet, and like there are people all. All the time who charge two three hundred four hundred dollars, not even just like the big celebrities of the world, but like you know influencers and stuff they're charged. You know two hundred fifty bucks to come. Meet them at an event and I'm Kinda like you know. I've spent one hundred sixty bucks on some of the dumbest Shit than that has four. Yeah no lake, or but like that Steph, you'll use like I've thrown one hundred sixty dollars away without a second thought in my life and I'm Kinda like well if that's where you decided to put your money, that's kind of what you got like. What do you expect like I? Never really found that to be a scale although I am really interested in what's going on with her book scammer? In the fact that she you know. Incentivize people to buy multiple copies because they would get autographs that she really is sold that in this thing when publishers are in fact up in working. In this book out, and she said she she's like didn't release the last part of it or something, right? Like. That's not even the book that's like another article that she's just writing behind a paywall and she donated a bunch of that money to like Kobe relief, but like that wasn't supposed to be in lieu of the book that was supposed to be like an additional Ryan she could earn. It is I wouldn't be shocked if when she saw cove. It happened that she thought okay. I can lie about the publishers being shut down. And released, and then write something like more campy, because like what she looked like she was selling was essentially a children's book based off the cover and everything. It seemed like it was going to be a quick read, so the thing that really soured me on her are like I was being objective, and even like when we went to this artist's retreat when our correspondent Mackenzie went I was open, minded and I was like I don't think that's a scam. I was but a couple of weeks ago. I don't know if you saw this, but people found her AIRBNB profile and oh. Yes and like I have to say I'm an avid airbnb user myself, and like you can just feel that sort of unspoken airbnb energy in the posts where you try to not bury a person, and so people were like four stars like the day I got there. I had to do three hours of laundry and they're. The place was a mess, but overall. It's a great location and. and. Then the one review that was left for her was. Break people back and there was a teapot Lopez. She pissed the teapot. That's the thing that made me turn on her up until then was objective, but then it's like. Why are you pissing? Strangers Teapot, come on. Okay so this is my theory on that. I think that she got some strange wherever she was staying in that. Because that's a guy, move right. Role isn't GonNa Piss in a teapot like the logistics of it just a nightmare so I don't think a woman would confidently piss in a teapot, but I think guys slough I mean there are just those guys out there that like pissing water bottle and light day accidentally leave it in their car for a week like it feels like a very dude thing in lake. Something that she wouldn't think to check before she left. Wow Out. Now I didn't even think of that. That is a great theory. Maybe I'm I didn't caroline. fucks, gross people, but then also. Like. Obviously Carolina is just so many of the things. She's done her questionable like. You can't even say like Oh the antisemitic step aside. There is no putting that aside. I I don't I wasn't. An intentional though I don't know that's what my guest said to me last week and she's. Jewish cares very much about this stuff. She said honestly I think. Caroline drinks a lot on an empty stomach. And people. You know I said I feel like people probably tried to set her up. A lot of people probably DM her things like hoping that she'll be lazy enough to post it or like not see through it and you know, but if you look at the comment that was attached to it, it was very like Oh. Greedy Hollywood Jews like love money like that was sort of the undertone of the whole tweet, and once I saw I was just like. Oh, I can't like the two of those together. That is not. That's not hitting right for me, but. I will say with small being snarky. I've checked it out a lot of cord like I'll go back once in a while and check it out. I've never really commented or anything. It seems like that's a community of people. That are never going to give her credit or benefit of the doubt on any. Leg they have stay are so committed to everything she does is wrong like sometimes the non things that they'll make issues of on there like now. You're telling yourself now. Now. It like you took this completely innocuous saying and like turned it into like okay. She thinks it's just like they're all in the bitchiness, crackers stage with her, but like on another level but the only fans again I talked about this part. My friend to this is what concerns me for her mental health because I think she thought that through. Yeah, and I have a lot of friends who are sex workers in take like private snaps and stuff like that I. CanNot Express how much I do not have a problem with that life, but everyone I know who's involved with. It has thought very long and hard about how they're going to do it. How the either pretends themselves if they don't WanNa be found, or whatever like. This is not something to take casually and when I. I'm like the number one reply on that tweet to her because I tweeted at her like Carolina. Look Great, but take this down when we can. You know when someone posts a shot of their titties at what like eleven pm Florida time on twitter? Because they didn't write part of essay. That doesn't seem particularly thought out lake. She launched into something that will affect her for the rest of her life. I think and I I think she does act very impulsively and she doesn't think things through that said I, do think she's a hustler and she's a good businesswoman and like you have to give credit for that. Oh any day of the week. I will say like that's why I'd never problem with the dreamer. BB's I'm like. Let her seldom leg it will. It will run out eventually, but it's something tangible. She's creating. If People WanNa pay for that, let them pay for it like don't my thing is i? Don't ever count anyone else's money. If people are willing to throw money at that, that's their life. You know that doesn't get an. And you know what some people. This is a demented world. Okay, some people might just want a piece of paper that Caroline Calloway touched. It's like just it's. It's part of the bit. Think that she's trying to do performance art, but doesn't really like the character that she's been a forced to commit to it because I don't think it aligns with who she is as a person and what she believed she is, but she knows how it's how she's perceived, and that's like a a big burden on someone I think and it's. She's doesn't seem like she's doing great. In my opinion. No, she doesn't and like Ah Shit that she posts about her. Dad. Are just like it's too much. It's like honey and this is private. You should not be sharing this. Hock. I know speak of public grief but I funny enough. I also asked Caroline because IBM to are a couple times like she followed me after I tweeted her to like not nudes or something and. I said to her like do you WanNa? Come on my lifetime podcast in. Do the movie homeless to Harvard with me? She never back. We emailed her manager and she wrote back, and he wrote back after like three weeks and said now. Yeah I mean I'm sure they get a Lotta asks but. okay so. Yeah when when John Walked in on Linda, like like talking to Patsy, he had this look of horror on his face almost as if he knew that he couldn't leave her alone for five minutes. Just in case, someone showed up to ask her for a duck. Bad Confession like he didn't seem to know that Linda was there. He just seemed keenly aware that she was about to spill all where she was at that point in her life and he yeah, you truly look horrified, really did. So it's two thousand, thirteen Stevens doing some carpentry in his Gra In his garage and I. The way I think Steve They mentioned at the end that he's a successful entrepreneur and I really wish that like Steve went on Shark tank because I think that he has the exaggerate story, I think the sharks would totally be into him I. Think they would invest anything in him. Steve So. Okay while us. You know sawing away. His wife plugs his machine and he's like. Basically you gotta come. See what's on TV. So what's going to play out over the next? Like two and a half minutes is basically. The rest of the movie This is where we all wrap it up here so one twenty, two to one, hundred, fifty six to one twenty five. In a startling development in the Jon Benet Ramsey case in response to a lawsuit brought by Reporters Committee for freedom of the press, the court released today four pages of an eighteen page grand jury indictment secretly issued in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, nine against on Patsy Ramsey, charging the couple with two counts each child abuse, resulting in death, an accessory to murder. Andrea carry reporting live in Boulder Colorado. where I am now. I've been here for twenty years. I've seen a lot of things for here. I've seen mommy. Di I've seen daddy get married again. Burke working with computers. And I've seen you to all of you. Looking at me. What do you see when you look at me? a Steve See. I. Forgive you Steve. I'm sorry to. Do Life would have been better without me. All the bedtime stories Mommy, and Daddy read to me had happy endings, but my story doesn't have an ending at all. Because, it's not a fairy tale. It's real life. And in the story of my life, the bad guys don't get caught. The Nice people don't win. I can't click my ruby slippers and go back home. I still don't know who the bad guy in my story is I guess I never will. Maybe. That's okay with me now. Maybe I can let go. Okay. Before I read the title cards, or at the end can I just say that my personal vision of who Jon Benet says that she is like a restless Bech like she is like absolutely do not I am not settling. This will not be the end of my story. I don't think she is going to have like Christian forgiveness to her. I feel like in my mind has the spirit of Zumur. Who's just like fuck? This I'm taking everyone down with me how? Love that for her I do. I. Mean I think it's better than this version where they elect this voice voiceover actress apologize. On to Steve for failing to solve her murder, and you know that she forgives and forgets about what's happened I think that that's just dumb. It's so sort of disgraceful to her memory. Yeah, I think this ending voiceover is very. SACCHARIN and it's very like. Dumb. Like. Under IT UNDERESTIMATES ARE I think it was probably written alive. Yeah, you know hundred. Okay, then we get a bunch of title cards over. The graves. Which I mean I think is actually her gravestone. Honestly, it looks exactly like, but it's as patsy. Ramsey died of cancer in June. Two thousand six, John Ramsey wrote a book on coping with suffering and unsuccessfully ran twice Michigan House of Representatives. That's Kinda depressing. Yeah, that's so depressing! I had no I had never heard that before. Like. Why does he want to be out there like that? Exactly, that's what I'm saying. They love the notoriety. Exactly like that's you know, he could have lived the rest of his life without anyone ever bothering him, but he decided to run for state representative. Okay, the statue of limitations on the charges against John and Patsy Ramsey expired three months after the hunter led the public to believe, there was no charges at all. So He's in the pedophile ring to fleet and Priscila white continue to fight for the release of the remaining fourteen pages of John and Patsy Ramsey's indictment brand jury. Burke Ramsey is now a computer programming? COMPUTER PROGRAMMER LIVING IN ATLANTA Steve Thomas never returned to law enforcement after the Ramsey case, he's successful businessman, husband and father, so he did have kids. That's good good. Good. I mean what movie I always find. These true crime wants to be a little hard. If it's a case, you've followed but I don't think anything short of Lake in extremely crazy well-produced, like maybe even a twenty four movie type version of this was released I. Don't think any movie would satisfy me. Yeah about. With this case, and it's also just we I don't even really think we've seen video of Jon benet talking. No never I? Don't think just pageants, we have. We have no idea like what she sounded like what her essence was like. She really just sort of lives in these photographs of her all dolled up so. yeah, I mean. I think this was better than the first movie, but I really hated the A really hated the voice over. So did you see? The Casting Jon. Benet Movie Yes Oh my God. That's so creepy Powell that I thought though was such a unique tae cast, because not only did you get to hear about the murderer? But then like you learned about these weird kind of unemployed character actors lives and like their own. told on themselves a couple time like there was like a like a creepy ass. Doodoo played John I believe and he was like. Oh, I. Think. It was like pedophile. said it. It's like Oh. You have personal experience with that. I love that I love the way it was shot on the way it was told I thought it was fascinating. Was it four this? Like what were they casting for? They were I think the movie was never casting for anything over. I think that all it was really casting for. Was that recreation at the end where they had like multiple patsies in a room multiple like that was just genius the way they pulled that off I don't think I've ever seen anything like that in. It was almost as campy as this case sort of needs and deserves like we need a campy answer to it, which is unfortunate, but I think a lot of people are also attached to this case I know I obviously have never moved past it. Director of this movie has done He did the unauthorized saved by the Bell Movie Restless Virgins He's done a few movies that we've done here and I think that. A lot of the acting stuff is like direction in my mind with these movies. It's just like not really reading the room but yeah, it's the views are pretty pop in on IMDB. I feel like we should wrap this up. Normally. Get into some of that but I feel like we wrap this up. You were amazing. Thank you so much to. We're GONNA make sure that all of your information is in description the podcast including a link to your pod. What does your podcast come out? Yeah, we come out on usually every Thursday. Awesome while I am so excited I feel like. People listening while head over in in. Listen to you guys and thank you so much for taking the time to do this with me. I appreciate it. Thanks so much for having me. Of course all right, guys. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks so much for listening by.