The Sporting Life: 5/1/20
Welcome to the sporting life with Jeremy Shabby. We'll bring the next hour. Jeremy Takes a trip through baseball history including a conversation about one of the greatest players of all time Yogi Berra. My father told me that this was one of the most dynamic baseball players he'd ever seen in his life and that's usually the way we think of. We think of Yoga means overshadowed by his persona. He's so much better as a baseball pires than I ever thought. I mean he was the best player on the team in baseball history. End A discussion. About how bud? Selig brought baseball back to Milwaukee and change the sports landscape idea of bringing the Seattle pilots was as bug field so that the very last June had that efforts failed. There may not be big league baseball in Milwaukee today and a whole generation of fans including me would either become standard twenty fans or maybe just focused on the Green Bay packers plus the story of one of the greatest collections of hitters. To not win the world series. The nineteen ninety-five Cleveland Indians. It was really a perfect storm of a team that had been built from the ground up years in advance. And this franchise moves into this beautiful new ballpark in downtown. Cleveland and timing could not have been more perfect the sporting life on ESPN radio and the ESPN APP. Here's Jeremy Shop. Welcome to another edition of the sporting life. By this time we would be about a month into the major league. Baseball Season Opening Day was supposed to be March twenty sixth and of course there is no baseball and we don't know whether baseball is going to be back this season at all whether it will be back with no fans in the stands a lot of permutations being discussed but right now more uncertainty than anything else but for the next hour. We'll talk about baseball. History will talk about baseball analytics with some of the smartest minds that have covered the gain. We start with our old friend. The senior baseball writer at the Athletic Keith Law. His new book is the inside game. Bad call strange moves in what baseball behavior teaches us about ourselves. Lot To unpack their key. Thank you for joining us. Thanks so Keith. First of all. Let's start with the absence of baseball from our lives. Right now You're someone whose life revolves around the game. Who's always immersed in the game? What is this for you? It's very strange. Certainly we are You at a point in the calendar ordinarily I'd be finishing updrafts owning hitting some minor league games and starting to prepare mock drafts. The baseball draft is still tentatively scheduled for June tenth. But of course there's some uncertainty around when the draft will be or how many rounds might entail and so I'm in a holding pattern and feeling a bit sort of addressed in as much as the running joke is sort of what day is today for me. It's sort of what month is it right. I look outside and think I should be doing baseball but there was no baseball for me and that is so much. I appreciate the time home with the family. There's absolutely a poll. There that Says No. You're supposed to be out watching players writing the things and it is very very strange to not have that as a regular feature of my life especially this time in the calendar. Yeah Baseball's such a part of the rhythm of our lives once it gets started in late March early April and it's just there for the next seven eight months a and and I think people are really feeling the absence I have a friend Who's in his sixties? Who is recovering from? Cova nineteen right now. Thankfully he's doing well and he's texting me every couple of days when his baseball back? That's all he wants his baseball back. Because he's one of these guys who watches you know one hundred fifty games a year if he can. He's a mets fan so he's a glutton for punishment but it is. It is so strange not to have it again. We're speaking with Keith Law. He is a senior baseball writer at the athletic and his new book is the inside game. Bad calls strange moves in what baseball behavior teaches us about ourselves. And of course what you were writing this book We could not have foreseen the situation which we find ourselves but it's perhaps more applicable now thinking about baseball. In the way we think about the game than it was before The pandemic what do you mean when you say that baseball behavior tells US something about ourselves? The way people in baseball behavior to come to the business of the game. Baseball is very much. A series of discrete events. Does this series of discrete decisions. It's fairly easy for us to isolate specific choices whether it's a managerial choice with any game or general managers decision to sign a player trade a player or scouting director's decision on what player their draft or even more generally what type of player to draft. And so it allows me to sort of go both ways if you don't know anything about behavioral economics. It's not at least when was in college. I partially major economic in college. We didn't do a lot of this stuff to learn it all adult. You don't know this stuff. I can explain a lot of these concepts. I think fairly simply using baseball examples. Because how often in life do you have something like that where you can really isolate specific decision or have fairly specific data on a series of choices made over a long period of times? You can look and say this works. This doesn't it really allowed me to again. I think it's a big this material more accessible and at the same time. Tell some fun baseball stories. I LOVE TALKING ABOUT BASEBALL DECISIONS. That did or didn't work. I loved delving through years of draft results. To look at okay. Was it actually a bad idea to take high school pitcher in the first round? Yeah turns out of Kinda. Is that stuff? I always want to write books that I think I would like to read if I were on the other end and this allowed me to do that to tell fun interesting stories in baseball history. I hope book get them to a length that no one had looked at them through war. We're speaking with Keith Law. A senior baseball writer for the athletic. His new book is the inside game. Bad calls strange moves in what baseball behavior teaches us about ourselves. Of course the bad decision stuff is is fascinating historically I remember I used to host a show on. Espn classic We would have some the most distinguished baseball writers sports journalists. Have all time on the show. Guys like Leonard Kopp. It who I guess is kind of the The grandfather is it fair to save analytics not only baseball but also in basketball somebody who covered the game away. The kind of delve deeper and you SAV disagreement We talk about we did a segment once about. What's the worst trade ever you know there's always What is it early? Braulio? I mean I'm sorry It's Braulio Lou Brock Right. And I'd say yet that's terrible That's terrible Leonard. But what about Amos Roussy for Christy Mathewson? The reds traded Christy Mathewson. Right who had not yet appeared in the major leagues? And he would go on win. What three seventy three or three eighty three three hundred seventy? Three Games frames roussy. Who'd been a great pitcher but was washed up at one like four games for the reds or something like that. He said well that doesn't count because they couldn't have known that was going to happen and I'm like well. That's the whole point though Leonard but it still ends up. I don't know what I'm saying. I have no idea actually right now. What I'm saying Keith. But what what does that. Is that a terrible trade or is there a difference between terrible trades based on outcome terrible decisions versus it's known UNKNOWNS UNKNOWN UNKNOWNS? I guess is what I'm trying to say absolutely well one of the things you got there in. The debate is outcome by seems to me. Like Leonard was probably falling in that particular argument for outcome by Association. Say INTO THE TRAP OF BIAS. Which is one of the ones. I discussed in the inciting more the mini cognitive biases. And I think one of the easiest to understand essentially outcome bias is judging an outcome sorry judging process by the outcome or by the results I worked therefore it was a good idea. That's not true. That's what I'm saying. Everyone can understand their own lives right. You had something where you said. I did all the right things and it still didn't work. That's the difference between process and outcomes and they use the example in the book of Bob Bradley in the two thousand one world series and was managing Arizona diamondbacks and did kind of everything wrong for seven games but the diamondbacks still won the world series. Did Bob Bradley do a good job? Was He a good manager? Or was he simply a manager who was standing nearby when Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling? Pretty much won the world series for the diamondbacks. I choose the latter bad process. Good outcome do not let us fall into the outcome. Bias of saying Bradley's process must have been good because they won when can look at the individual decisions with data with actual evidence and say. No these were bad decisions and individually. They may not have worked out but on the whole the series as a whole workout for the diamondbacks. And we can judge those two things separately. Keith law again you can read them at. The athletic is new book is the inside game. Bad calls strange moves in what baseball behavior teaches us about ourselves. We couldn't really do it. Justice in the time allotted but I recommend it keep. Thanks so much for being here on the show again Mike. Leisure thanks for having. This is the sporting life on. Espn radio and the ESPN APP Yogi Berra was one of the great baseball players of all time. One of the great winners in the annals of sport but he meant more to people than just a great baseball player typically would there was a lot of humor out him and some unintentional philosophy. Is well now. Lawrence Peterborough is the subject of a new book by our old friend. One of the great sports journalists of our time John Pasa his book is simply Yogi a life behind the mask John. Thank you for joining us. Jeremy It's my pleasure. John I mean I let me start by saying Yogi? Berra's one of those guys and I have like many people tremendous fondness for him and I In appreciation for him probably more than most people having known him a little and growing up in New York Being around him. What more do we need to know about Yogi Berra that we don't already know? Well I'll tell you I threes. I did this book was my I got Yogi and nineteen sixty when I was eight years old and he was a role paying outfielder for very strong Yankee teams very good role. Play a role player. My he was my father's favorite player. My father told me that this was one of the most dynamic baseball players who ever seen in his life. And that's not usually the way we think of you. Think of Yoga means overshadowed by his persona so I really wanted to go back just at the beginning and just look at this tremendous baseball player and he was so much better. And I'm a huge baseball fair but he's so much better as a baseball player than I ever thought. He was the best player on the best team in baseball history. Well he won those MVP awards when the Yankees were winning all those world series. They won the world series and forty nine fifty fifty one fifty two fifty three he was the MVP in fifty one fifty four and fifty five and this is at a time that you Mickey Mantle was coming into his own. He was about to win the triple crown and fifty six. Ted Williams was still doing remarkable things. There was a lot of tough competition in the American league but Yogi Berra was the MVP in three of those seasons. What made him so great. two things one. He was just a tremendous hitter on right from the start. This guy was a twenty home. Run one hundred. Rbi to eighty three twenty hitter Out of the catcher slot where the catch was expected to play. Defense and to call pitches and that was it and actually the first year of of yogis career There was there was a very very chance he was been outfielder catcher. And it wasn't until Casey stangl came in and realized if I have a hard hitting catcher Then I have something special and brings him built dickey. They fix mechanical problems with with. Yoga's pitchers hated pitching to him. In his first two years He cleans up the mechanics. and Yogi now becomes almost overnight the best catcher in the American league and one of the true talents. I had no idea. How do you have a near photographic memory of of baseball and he could tell you how to get somebody out in the fourth inning with a man on second that we did four and a half years ago Here's the right pitch and the players. Just you know turn completely turned around because that is an incredible weapon to have. Plus you as a fielder. Was you know as good now better than anyone? We're speaking with longtime sports writer and editor John Pass. His new book is Yogi a life behind the mask biography of Lawrence. Peter Barra probably one of the thirty greatest baseball players ever to live and one of only a few athletes. North American major sports history with as many as ten championship rings. But when I think of Yogi John I think about Some of the contradictions. You know one of the great athletes of all time but not in an athlete's body right. How did that lead people to misjudge him in the beginning? I think that you know his Bonnie. I'll tell you this to one general one specific part of it that literally changes baseball history. The the general is you you look at him and you know equipment managers. When he walked into his minor league teams would give him a uniform To the uniform because they thought he would say to try out not that he was part of a team He just didn't look like an athlete. He had a toll person upper body a short persons lower body. A long arm big shows a hidden neck But when he stepped the field He was just an incredible player. The Guy who was who is supposed to be the greatest judge of talent in part because he could look at a sixteen year old and figure out what he was going to look like. He's twenty one named branch rickey greatest talent evaluate ever. He takes one look at Yogi and the size and tells them to face your no more than AAA baseball player and I need people who go all the way and so instead of a playing for the cardinals team or when the cardinals make the mistake playing for the ground Who then become the Orioles and this drives orioles fans crazy when I tell them that? Yogi Berra in his prime would have been catcher for the Baltimore Orioles He makes this gigantic mistake and he loves joke. Hours Yoyogi best friend across the street neighbor. Who literally is six one hundred and seventy five pounds and absolutely look like baseball player and is very good but it wasn't Yogi Berra. John Speaking with John. About his new biography of Yogi Berra and as I tried to suggest in early. Didn't you know the thing about Yogi? Berra it's not just the achievements on the field. Obviously but it's This aura about him and it and I was random lot. I interviewed him on a number of occasions. And there was this charm and this warped about him although he could be tough but but People thought he was this guy Who had this endless stream of unintentionally? Funny one liners this kind of stuff. It actually interviewing Yogi was an easy. Wasn't somebody who actually fit the way the people people noam thought of him you know his persona his public thing wasn't the real Yogi. Can you explain that disconnect a little bit and wide exists? Well I mean definitely wasn't Yogi was always A quiet if not shy person the only place the Yogi fell a hundred percent comfortable was on any ball field where he was always a best player and you could see through his life. The people who talked for and Joe Garagiola who helped with Yogi `ISMs then became Phil Rizzuto and other very talkative person His wife was eloquent. Ron Guidry. Later in his life becomes of these yogi whisper and he he was just naturally that way it was also the youngest of four boys and in you know in five kids and then the. Talian families father you know as as most fathers of that era they ruled with an iron fist. And you know I think he learned to be quiet that way. Because you didn't talk until you were. You were spoken to. And his father was a man of few words in fact all of the of the of the kids In Yoga family quite sorts. But I think to. He faced a lot of discrimination because he was a Cowan and he faced a lot of abuse because of his look because of his physical stature And because sometimes he would you know when he did talk a mangle the language and I think that Yogi just having such an appreciation for how it felt to be looked down upon and he could never bring himself to do that because he knew felt like. And and that's first of all it's rare and people second of all it's really rare among athletes and you'll give us just this guy who who liked and love people and I think people felt that and just so instantly comfortable around him I saw. This must be twenty years ago. There was a there. Aren't a lot of baseball players. Who had one man plays written about them? That were actually performed on Broadway and I saw. I saw the Yogi. Show bengals ARA. I mean one of the great actors of the second. Half of the Twentieth Century Played Yogi. I did a story about saw the play and you know I think Yogi never saw it because you know it took liberties with the real story and a lot of it revolved around his relationship with Dale Berra. And a lot of it. Dale his son. Who's been on the show recently and it was about You Know Dale's addiction right all that stuff. It is feud with Steinbrenner. Mostly the reason that and it was Carmen And unfortunately this he's white Carmen. Did yet I'm sorry Unfortunately this story didn't make it into the book. I ended up having to cut sixty pages the book. But there's a terrific story of Gonzala and right coming to Yogis House and talking about it and Kozara figures. Hey I'm from Brooklyn I'M A. I'm a revolt Italian. We're going and they did hit it off But carman was again from the start and they have a second meeting his museum where they're sitting there drinking vodka together telling stories about where it was like growing up during the depression. And you know if it was Yogi they they would have blessed Common walks in is very polite. Very nice you know Carmen. She was charming woman And very politely and Trombley said I'm sorry but we're not going to endorse this John. His new book is Yogi a life behind the mask John. It's always a pleasure. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Hey Jeremy thanks for the time appreciate it. This is the sporting life on. Espn radio and the ESPN APP. The Milwaukee brewers would be celebrating now. They're fifty first season in Milwaukee. Of course we don't know when baseball is coming back. But the brewers are the subject of new book by Adam Mckelvey who's been covering them for. Mlb DOT COM for decades. He is a native of the Milwaukee area and his new book is. The Milwaukee brewers fifty celebrating a half century of brewers baseball Adam. Thanks so much for being with us. Of course German. Thank you for having me. I gotta say I'm doing this with all due respect but I was looking at some of the numbers right I mean. The brewers I think over there fifty seasons in Milwaukee have a winning percentage of about forty eight percent which I think might be actually a little bit better than I would have guessed. And they've played a total and fifty seasons. If my math is right again I think of thirty postseason games. And they've won one pennant. No world series. Of course that one thousand nine hundred two lost in seven games to the cardinals and Keith Hernandez that whole story was Bob McClure? Who gave up the head to Hernandez in the the big game in my right. That's right no rollie fingers haunts but still to this day right so I mean you know it's easy for somebody coming from New York. You know where they've got twenty seven championships with the Yankees and before that the giants and In the dodgers and the mets well it's been a. It's been a long drought for the mets too. But we'll talk about that another time. But people forget when you talk about Milwaukee Baseball Milwaukee they forget that there were some incredible teams there fifties and early sixties. How long were the braves? Fourteen years something like that. Yeah never had a losing season. led the major leagues and attendance on a number of occasions. I nationally franchise to draw two million fans. It was a town that fell in love with its baseball. Aaron and Mathews Spawn and Bernadette. I mean It was they had those great teams and they beat the Yankees. And what was it? The fifty seven world series right and then they decamped for Atlanta. What did it mean to Milwaukee to get baseball back in nineteen seventy of course? It meant that Seattle lost the team that had for year as you already said it was the that the city was bigly again And you know it came at a time that herb Kohl had also brought the NBA to Milwaukee Just a year before and it was a big boost for town. That was really heartbroken when the braves left in in reading about that I always known the braves left town. I never knew the history of that. How a team that has been so successful at the gate and on the field and as you said at so many hall of famers suddenly decamped and I learned through this research that one of the reasons Milwaukee lost the braves was they made a policy against Kerry in beer and people were so horrified of the notion of having to buy their beer at the ballpark led to some really hard feelings. Only Milwaukee I mean that's that's that is a great story. Can you picture reeling your leg into the Ballpark for long now? Look it's more complicated than that. And I don't oversimplify simplify it. But that was certainly one factor really before the brave even decamped. Bud sheely was already trying to gather civic leaders you know. He's around thirty years old at the time To try to I save the braves when that effort failed He turned his sights to bring in almost immediately and other expansion team and he had so much heartache in close calls over and over There was an American league expansion during that period Between Sixty five and seventy are. There was National League expansion. You tell them watching Walter. O'malley announce the winner in mouth. A word that began with 'em and his heart lifted and the the word was Montreal. Heart was broken again You gotTA deal to buy the Chicago. White Sox from one of the Allen Brothers The other brother Nix. That deal hurt was broken again. So the way bud ceiling tiles this idea of bringing the Seattle pilots as you said lasted only one year. Poor attendance The ownership of at least one member of the ownership was willing to part with the team. It was as the very last chance and had that effort failed There may not be bigly baseball in Milwaukee today and a whole generation of fans including me would you know either becomes fans are twins fans or maybe just focused on the Green Bay packers. So it's a story of a close calls and sort of how feel Use this history can hang on such a thin line impact so many people in the in the decades that followed the that is sort of a story of this franchises. Well we're speaking with data. Mckelvey is new book. Is Milwaukee brewers at fifty celebrating a half century of brewers baseball? And you gotta forward by Robin Yount Hall of Famer Shortstop Center. Fielder it off the top of my head Robin Yount easily. The greatest player in franchise history right easily easily easily. was he was he full-time planets up when he was eighteen. For the brewers. Yeah a again a story of right place right time I think about that in my career sometimes. And how many of us have you know are where we are because of Sort of that idea just being ready when opportunities strikes you But feeling tells the story of a real battle within their front office in. Nineteen seventy three When the BREWERS had the third overall pick and the GM wanted a pitcher from New York The scouting director really liked their shortstop from Woodland Hills. California and they battled and battled and battled and it was ultimately the scouting directors. Call him bomber. Who himself was an infielder made it to the big leagues at age eighteen He got to select Robin Yount. And and the following spring. You're talking about nineteen seventy four. The brewers are still basically an expansion team. They've had very little success on the field and they get to spring training. The Manager del Crandall became the great Milwaukee braves. He was one of the core players of that team and He decided you know why. Not Give it a shot to the kid And Robin Yount had impressed at times in that Spring and they made the decision sort of near the camp that that's just give it to the. Let's give him a shot in the big leagues and you know really it's it took years for robbing out to become the the hall of. Famer that eventually became. It was really a four really. Disappointing seasons You set a club record as a rookie. That probably won't ever be broken for Arizona season at shortstop And really just you know didn't perform the bat until about nineteen seventy eight. So you know would it? Sometimes I think back when you look at players today and the social media age everybody wants you know Mike Trout from the second he steps foot on major league field. How many outlets four years of real struggle? And what would what would he look? His career looked like in today's game. Would it be different? Would they have the patience to stick with eventual hall of Famer sort of an impossible question to answer but one of the you know one of the best things for Robin now was that he was able to learn on the job? The next year the birds brought back Henry on to know walkie. He was a fantastic mentor for robbing out and Frank Robinson was also a great mentor for Robbing Down Played Winter Ball for Frank Robinson Robinson. Took to this kid. Was you know the sort of a cool calm southern California Guy Robinson really liked him and they'd have a couple of cocktails at the bar each night and Robin announces that was a phenomenal influence on his career. As well and he blossoms into nearly the face of this franchise you know. Maybe it's bobby maybe you can make a case for that abroad. Captured being the face of the team. But if you're talking about players there's no doubt he's the man who defines the sort of Understated blue-collar Loyal Sorta town. He's the player that he he's the face of this ranch is and I was just going to get to Bob. Euchre before we go and again we're speaking with Adam. Mckelvey from MLB DOT COM. Who's been covering the brewers for MLB for twenty years nearly and That's forty percent of the history of the franchise. Tell me Bob Euchre story and then we'll let you go. Well you know his deadpan gets you know my favorite personal Bob Story. There was a a year one of the early years. I was covering the team where they weren't very good as you said for some of those years and in the two thousands and they agreed to let sports illustrated follow the team for like a a road trip and it turned into this nightmarish road trip. They lost every game injuries. Whatever could go wrong went wrong but when the piece comes out in sports illustrated there's this fantastic photo of the guys playing Ping Pong at the cool in in Miami And in the background is Euch in a very very stylish black speedo and this thing is published in the magazine and we. He picked some ribbing for it. I think it was like the next spring. We're just talking about and totally casually in conversation. This comes up and he goes. Oh Yeah my sports illustrated swimsuit issue for some reason that line just like stuck in my head forever and and it's those types of little things that you will drop on you and you know you not even expecting to laugh and then you spend the next hour laughing about that. He said I've said many times you know it's it's it's a it's a joy to cover the T. When your team you follow makes it to the postseason. Look your mastic about covering this team. You're doing the job as a journalist. But it's it's it's you know when the teams good. It's it's a good thing you know you get to cover huge games deep into October. It's a lot of fun I've always said my team could win the next ten world series or the you know I could cover the next ten world series and nothing will be as a thrill as just standing around the batting cage with bobby you could just make you laugh He's a total joy to be around and You know I hope he gets to do it for a long time. This was supposed to be its fiftieth season On the Mike for the Milwaukee brewers hometown team. Not exactly the way he envisioned Season NUMBER FIFTY GOING. But hopefully we get some baseball forum before this yoga. That would be nice. Data McCarthy's new book. The Milwaukee brewers at fifty. Celebrating half-century brewers baseball Adam. Thanks so much for joining us. Good luck good luck with the book. Jerry I appreciate it so much thank you. This is the sporting life on. Espn radio and the ESPN APP. A quarter century ago. Baseball CAME BACK TO LIFE IN CLEVELAND. After decades of dormancy the one thousand nine hundred ninety five Indians were exciting team. They ended up winning the pennant. Losing the world series to the Atlanta braves there the subject of a new book. Cleveland rocked the personality. Sluggers magic of the nineteen ninety five Indians written by Zack. Meisel of the athletic who joins us? Now ZAC thanks for being with us. Thanks for having me Jeremy. All right so you know I I already kind of gave away You know The ending they don't win. They lose the braves that great braves team that only won one world series despite winning like forty five consecutive division championships What's so fascinating about the nineteen ninety-five Indians other than this remarkable collection of personalities and talents? Or maybe that is the most interesting thing I should say. Well you at it. Because it was really a perfect storm of a team that had been built from the ground up years in advance. And then this franchise moves into this beautiful new BALLPARK IN DOWNTOWN CLEVELAND. And the timing could not have been more perfect where you have a team emerging from this forty years slumber where they were the dregs of the league they were they reach such a low point that they had a famous movie made after them of course so that was chariots of fire. Right that was the exactly. You know your movie series. But it's just the timing was perfect and you had a city that was so desperate and so hungry for something to get behind and not only do. They have a winning team but the fashion in which they won with all these walk up victories and come from behind wins and yeah the personalities where you had an imposing slugger Albert Belle colorful characters like Omar vizquel and Kenny. Lofton savvy veterans who had been around the block. It was just the perfect mix for a city that was just waiting and waiting and waiting for exactly that I mean and and this this lineup I mean I'm looking at it now. I mean Manny Ramirez in ninety five when he's twenty three hitting thirty one home runs You've got as you mentioned. Albert Belle hit fifty that year. One hundred twenty. Six runs batted in Jim. Thome you would end up being a six hundred or two home run player and Kenny. Lofton and Omar Vizquel and Carlos by arrogance. And you've got Eddie. Murray another future hall of Famer Dave winfield another future hall of Famer. All these guys making contribution some larger than others. Obviously this incredibly exciting team. Would it mean in Cleveland to have a team? After fifty years almost fifty years. It's last World Series Championship. Nineteen forty eight that team. What did it mean to Cleveland to have a team like this Around well there's no better way to explain it than to say that two days after the Indians lost game six and the braves celebrated in Atlanta. The Indians returned to downtown Cleveland for a celebration with tens of thousands of fans packing the streets and climbing onto traffic lights and lamposts in downtown Cleveland and they lost but it meant so much to that city to finally have something some thread to get them through the summer and the early part of fall Which they had waited so long for that. And you know it came in this. Nineteen ninety five and the browns left in nineteen ninety five so it was. It really was the start of something too when I think. Of course fans were disappointed in the end result but it had been so long and really most of the people who experienced that ninety five team. We're not around the last time. The Indians had made the postseason nineteen fifty four when they didn't win a postseason game. They were swept in the world series. So it has been since nineteen forty eight since they had a playoff run. So that's forty seven years. Nobody remembered that so. This was the first time they could remember having something to keep them. Invested for six months and and so even with the end result. I think there was an appreciation for what that lineup accomplished. Full of famers or would be hall of famers should be all of famers and a pitching staff. That was pretty underrated too. They just had all of the elements. And it just really galvanized Cleveland. I gotTA admit And were speaking with Zack. Meisel about his new book. Cleveland rock the precise sluggers magic of the nineteen ninety five Indians. And I know I should know this. I was covering baseball and a daily basis. I totally forgot that Orel. Hershiser won sixteen games for them. I mean I didn't really. I mean I remember. Nagy and I remember Dennis Martinez Martinez won twelve a very good year for them. Nagy was. This is a typical kind of Charles. Sixteen and six with a four or five five year or a But hershiser WHO's thirty six went sixteen and six with a three point eight seven. Era AND JOSE. Mesa had forty six saves with a one point one three era. Yeah you think about you think about the hitters on those teams but there. There was some effective pitching going on as well as they won a hundred games. Yeah no one ever recognizes the fact that they led the American league in era and they were really good at preventing walks hits. And you didn't have much traffic on the basis and the hitters would tell the pitchers just just hold them. You don't need to throw a shutout just limit them to a few runs and let Albert Belle and Jim Thome Ian Manny Ramirez. Kenny Lofton Eddie. Murray do their thing. Unbelievable so yeah you can see if you look at the ages of the roster. It's really interesting because most of the roster was was built from within they drafted. Well they traded well You had young hitters in that lineup like told me Ramirez. And then they when they knew it was time to to hit the gas pedal. That's when they went out and they signed Dennis Martinez even though he was forty years old. They signed. Eddie Murray. Who was nearing the end of his career. And then right. Before the ninety five season they signed. Orel Hershiser to be that. If the missing cog in that rotation and hershiser ended up having a fantastic season he was the MVP of AOL CS against America. So you know. It's funny when when I think about the Indians from the mid nineties there was that you know it meant so much as well because there'd be no world series ninety four. We haven't mentioned that. So it was kind of this unique circumstance to people were hungrier for world series and perhaps They were typically. Because what happened in ninety four but two years later in ninety-seven they get to game seven Against the MARLINS and and they they lose that one when I think of the Indians of the nineties There's so much talent but they don't quite get over the top. What what's what's the team. That means more in the heart hearts and MINDS OF PEOPLE FROM CLEVELAND. The Ninety five team of ninety seven. Yeah it it's the ninety five team for a couple of reasons number one they. They hadn't disappointed anybody yet. So that's what made that summer. So special is it was all new and fresh and this it was foreign to Cleveland fans who were used to the team being in the basement by June first so that was one part of it. I think that's why people were more accepting of the end result even though they weren't happy with it obviously But in ninety seven that team didn't click until late August. They were treading water. They didn't have much of a division lead in fact they were trailing the white sox for awhile and then they played a little better down the stretch. They WANNA eighty seven games kind of limped into the playoffs and just caught fire at the right time. Had some some clutch hits some key moments in October to get to the world series but again that's by that point you're losing ninety five in the World Series Ninety six. It was a first round exit so there was more of a sense of urgency and I think fans were less forgiving especially when they had the lead in the ninth inning in game seven Miami and couldn't shut the door. Those Indians teams. Were Fun to watch. And they were exciting to cover as well remember covering current them in the ninety seven. Al CSI guess but it was a little bit of a different team at that point anyway. Zach. It's terrific of you to spend this time with us and share your memories and his New Book Zach Muzzles New Book as I said is Cleveland Rock the personality sluggers and magic of the nineteen ninety. Five Indians would a collection of talent and character Zach. Thanks so much for joining us here on the sporting life. You GotTa Jeremy. Thanks so much. Thanks for having joined us. I'm Jeremy Shopping. And this has been the sporting life on. Espn radio or on every Saturday and every Sunday morning at six eastern time.