Episode 128: Our Fave, FavyFav! (Brought to you by Grizzly Kiki)
Hello, hello. Hello. It's bobby. It's just me this week. I know you've missed me. I had to come back by myself. And of course, in true fashion, I'm gonna make this episode all about me. So I bring you a special episode this weekend. I'm not gonna talk too much because it's a pretty lengthy conversation with one of my favorite podcasts with robber and Daniel over at grizzly KiKi, so grisly KiKi. You know, there are, there are cousin podcasts are remake us podcast. I love him so much. They've become great friends, actually gonna come. Visit me in Las Vegas, and I'm so excited to show them around. I just have been a big fan of their show, and I've, I've been on several of their episodes doing ripples drag race. Recaps and one time they interviewed me about myself and my art. And so that's what I'm gonna play today because I know there's been a lot of people messaging me on Instagram. Like where are you where have you been? Have you given up on us? The answer is yes, but I'm bringing you. Special treat my friends over the key key. They love their interviewing style. They get into it. I'm so he talked about a lot of really, you know, fun, but also deep stuff in this interview someone do a little ad and then will be back with grizzly cookie deleted shish. Today's episode is brought to you by the east Las Vegas library. That's right. Y'all east Las Vegas library. There's a beautiful library here and I'm actually recording in their recording studio as we speak a few have a podcast and you need a place to record, you can do it at the library. Now, just make sure you schedule ahead of time to make sure it works. But they have a beautiful recording studio. They have all these instruments here so you can actually record music. They have a YouTube like video studio here. They have their very own podcast room. They have technology. Center, y'all. This place is incredible. So big shoutout to east Las Vegas library and a big big shout out to Saleh, who is a big supporter of Latinos, who launch and made it possible for us to be in the studio. The next few episodes, that you're going to hear where recorded at east Las Vegas library. It's awesome. If you are in Las Vegas, or if you have kids here in Vegas that wanna learn how to podcast that wanna learn how to shoot their own videos, they have workshops here at least once a week for audio it's amazing y'all did sh- today's episode is also brought to you by the Marjorie Barrick museum of art at UNLV. If you haven't been to the Marjorie Barrick museum of art, put your life to gather. Okay. There is culture here in Las Vegas, there is an art museum here in Las Vegas, and it's the Marjorie Barrick. And I'm not just saying that because. I have an art show up there right now called sorry for the mess with artists Ramiro Gomez, where we explore lat next representation in our own histories here in Las Vegas. And yet that art show is up through August, I believe. And then I'm also here to announce that they're gonna have this huge community in July. So Mark your calendars, July twentieth. There will be workshop Serbia. It's an entire day of programming and fun. And I'll actually doing workshop myself from around twelve to five PM at the Marjorie Burke museum art, so please, check them out. Google locus did ship. Hi, this is far from Latinos who lunch and you're listening to grisly. Kiki. Today's episode is brought to you by Worby Parker. And I care brand that offers chic and modern, I wear at a revolutionary price simply put your glasses shouldn't cost as much as the iphone X or Parker's, prescription glasses start at ninety five dollars, and they do sunglasses to buying glasses should be easy, and risk-free girl, Parker's home, trion program lets you fall in love with your glasses in the comfort of your own home. You can choose up to five frames from hundreds of stylish options and have them shipped directly to you for free. That way, you can try all the frames and pick your favorite and for every pair of glasses sold. Worby Parker distributes pair of glasses to someone in need. January's Worby Parker. And now he can actually see me, and I'm considering divorce. Hey, sit get started head over to Worby Parker trial dot com slash KiKi again, that's Worby. Parker, trial dot com slash KiKi Worby Parker. Modern I wear made. Simple, thanks a lot. This is grizzly KiKi. I'm Daniel and I found out I'm white today. I'm Robert on Evan white this whole time and we're here with fobbing from Latinas lunch. How are you? I'm great. Thanks for having me. Thank you. For telling me up why you're welcome. My stock just went through the fucking Rufus. Join the club your credits. Followed around stores as much anymore. It's going to go back to stores. Yes. Oh, you can sexually harass people, and be a complete asshole, and still be part of the supreme court. It's wonderful. Wow. I didn't I feel like a marriage with celebrity all of a sudden. Are you? Are you going to be the next? Anyway, let's not do that. So should we jump right into that topic since we're here? Let's do it. Okay. So you started. Okay, so one I'm assuming he's a listener, but someone tweeted us. Right. So on the episode with our most recent episode with Queen, we had a conversation about how it was basically made to feel like she wasn't Mexican enough when she was with her own family. And then she moves to LA and the white people around her make her feel like she's not Mexican enough and Daniel made a sort of innocent comment after that, that was like, well, let's not talk about white people. And so one of our followers who I think is still are follower. Yeah. He's still are followers. So you're fucking it up. Girl. He tweeted us and said he quoted yeah, let's not talk about white people and said, I made it I made it minute Forty-six into this episode before, realizing the racial, positively usually expressed his turned anti white and very close to racist. I really like you too. But when I choose to listen to something, it's not going to be hurtful. And then I respond by saying, good work taking something completely out of context, and he responds with instead of trying to be objective. You're choosing to be defensive I understand to, which I recognized great. You're a troll. Your internet, your internet prices must be so high because you live under a bridge and knocking engage with you anymore talking to you about this before we started recording. He's like a you said a friend of yours told you like, yes. My friends, and who does the podcast to with Queen j. Yes, says that if you're a few are Latino and you can play an Italian in the movie in a movie, then you are like white pass. So I, I have gotten shot up to your cousin jaylo, by the way shout talion all time. Right. So I have been confused for Italian native American Indian Middle East. Middle Eastern Middle Eastern is the main one, but my best for my former best friend thought I was at talion for two and a half years of our friendship. Okay. So I just like I don't know to, like, well, for I just think it's so because like so I'm sorry, I guess I'm sorry, I made that comment because I don't wanna make anybody feel like they're being excluded. And I didn't realize because the reason is like Dhanapala. I don't like I'm not really apologizing for it, because it's like first of all, you can't be racist towards white people. That's just like a fact, right? Because like way, people have not been systematically oppressed throughout history. Again, it's, it's a systematic oppression. Are taken away from you tonight to you it cetera et cetera et cetera. Just because of the fact that you are a certain skin color in this country that happens to be black, right. So can't be racist toward you, girl. So and it's not anti white. I think in that moment, and I can't really like night even going to try and make something up as to why said it. But that was very heavy topic that we were talking about any got heavier because I don't know if you listen plus minute forty six but it did get now awkward, but I think all of us felt the heaviness in the year because it was something that was very sensitive about and really did require more exploration that I don't think either of the three of us had prepared for or ready to explore in that moment. And I know for a fact that I hesitated a lot toward the end of the first segment because all like my mind was racing with all these ideas of how like you're not enough here and you're not in there, and it's like, why are people deciding? That they can decide that your your Mexican of white and of black, whatever enough is, you know, like nobody should be allowed to quantify that for you. And so that's kind of where that came from, but it was more like we were just talking so much about race. And like white white white white or whatever or Mexican whatever it was. I was just like like let's just, you know, like you know who cares. This any more space, because it was obviously, not a topic that was was going to be like explored properly in that moment. I mean that that's an so I don't I don't wanna offend or exclude anybody, but it's like we're not anti white, but we're also people thought this guy, we're not like being anti white, like I don't even care to, to explain that to somebody because I know it's like it's not worth anybody's time. Also, again, this is the famous bullshit that why people do they show up and they start crying when a conversations, not about them that conversation was me, relating or pizza telling her story. And then knee relating back to her being like I don't really understand my culture. And I've been told my whole life that I'm too white to be Latino Hispanic whatever word you choose to, to, to quantify my, you know, my my, my Chilean heritage. I've been told that my whole life. And so this moment wasn't about you, and you decided to go on Twitter, make it about you. And it's like this is what you're what why people are talking famous. Like you kidding me right now because we were having conversation about how pink as an adult moving away from home, and then later becoming a drag Queen, that's when she was able to like start rediscovering ninety even like rediscovering discovering, her letting the because yes in a way it had been denied to her because the Mexican members of her family, seeing her as, as half white were exclusionary, right? Or we're excluding her. Yeah. So, and that, you know, again, hear it and how she's talking in her voice that it is a subject that was very. It was it was a sore spot for her in an emotional, one in something that she is, you know, like, like dealing with this REU drag I mean, her name is, is fucking being chick Queen, like it's you know, it's a saying it like so she is. Anyway, it was about her. It's not about anybody else. Calm down. Yeah. Well, first of all, I want to say exactly what you said, you cannot be racist against white people that's impossible. Okay. Get over that. Second white people hate to be to be reminded that they're white, white people don't have to worry about their identity because their identity doesn't. Right. So when they're reminded that they're white and makes them uncomfortable because nobody it's, it's just so much easier to be ignorant about everything. Right. So that's the second thing this person is uncomfortable because he's white and he feels guilty and it's just something that we have to deal with a lot because we can navigate through different identity, where identify as let the nose or, or, you know, Italian or you know, like J lo filling lack sometimes she's why Puerto Rican again. So that's good. And then third, there was another person who's Puerto Rican again. And I can't remember who it is. I don't know. But I know these people, I know you guys on on you. Beverly they were talking about how Jennifer Lopez Puerto Rican. Again, after all these years, because their shape Shifter, which is great. I remember jaylo was on a morning talk show once trying to make like boil throw now and and those stone us or something, and I was like jaylo hasn't cooked since nineteen ninety six. Like, like making it in the morning like what are we generally doing this? And I'm like, what like this is not a Puerto Rican thing like anyway. Before third point third point, is that a lot of these Mexicans out there and I run into a lot because I make artwork about being let the know or Latin x as the youth say and. There's always this thing like you're not gun on your not Mexican enough. You're not this enough and it that all ties to believe it or not to white supremacy. And that's what white supremacy. Does it pins us against our own people? Right. To say that you're not Brown enough, it that has direct ties to colonization and to, like, genocide to really fucked up history. To what do they call it like the purification of the bloodline there, there, there's no such thing. And it's like a lot of I just had this conversation with my friend, Christina, who's an artist who is Colombian. She looks white. He was adopted by a white family here in New York. And now she's trying to get in touch with her. And she runs into this all the time you're not let the NF because you don't speak Spanish, right? And then, like, you know, you're letting girl you're born in. Like you are let the and then the more and I used to think like this, too, because, you know, we're all a little bit. I mean we're all racist. We're a racist. Right. So it, it takes a lot of reprogramming to actually think different and, and we should all be learnings. Hopefully your listener, maybe learns from this. But yeah, but then, the more I think about I'm like, okay so we speak English in this country. Most of us most people in Latin America, speak Spanish, but that's also. And that's all languages of colonizers like whom. Here's what you talk what language you speak in? And you got me all angry now. So, yeah, I mean, and it's all about other ring, you know, which is, which is about other, which is it's, it's funny because I was talking to my coworkers about this the other day. And I forget, what Pontiac st- it had to do because it's, it's, it's, it's a very mixed off. It's like one of my coworkers has Japanese another co workers the. Amis. I'm Puerto Rican and we have to way people who work with us, but they're also you know, like ethnically Jewish, and, you know, so there's like different levels of oppression going onto the different cultures. You know, so oppression can really have regardless of, of skin, color language. You know, like people have been oppressed kind of across all. Yeah. All boundaries on a certain level. But, but racism is a is a very specific thing, anti white whatever, you know, it's just like no, this is not what's going on here. But it's like you don't really you can't really understand what any of this until you've been other, and I was telling my coworkers just stories about how my grandfather, and I will go to like the race track a lot or just, you know, we go out and walk or whatever, and it happened without fell east, once every time we are on public transportation, where we would be talking to each other in Spanish amongst ourselves. Yeah. And not even you know, like when you talk in Spanish, so that they don't realize that you're talking. About them. It, it wasn't that it was not that, right. If it was like, but the thing was like we people on the train on the bus, whatever would literally look at us and be like, can't you just speak English? And even as a kid, I'd be like what and I would look at them and say, but I can't speak English sir or ma'am, or Mr. whatever. And they would like because I was like this Little Brown kid, who they thought it was just like, you know, all the owes like you know, that I couldn't speak anything else anyway, until you have felt that uttering because of your race or your language like you don't get other thing about language that I want to mention too is that focusing so much on the knows this back to being just episode. Is that focusing so much on how having to know how to speak Spanish to be considered a real that the is really problematic, because it excludes all of the let the knows indigenous Latinos who still speak their? Indigenous languages, and also, the Portuguese the right the, the Brazilians Portuguese. And I mean that's the one thing we're trying to avoid especially nowadays when there's so much anti blackness happening to exclude. White Latinos, also means you're excluding afro Latinos, and so they're Latinos, come in all shapes colors. Rely, like it's, it's yeah. It's it's like I said, it's part of this whole like, oh, my God. Putting people in boxes as part of white supremacy to get, you know, racist against each other. These mo- Israel, what sets show. Oh, god. I even hate that. I'm referencing the show love and hip. Hop miami. Oh, yeah. She has to explain I forget, who I think is the guy that was ice on. The main on the breakfast. Yes. Who's oh my God where she had to explain to him, what afro Latino like he didn't believe, and I'm like, what like there were Africans Latin America, or in Latin, which is a weird term. That's a whole other thing. But it's like, but he thought that Afra Latino was term that she had made up that it meant that her father was black and her mother was, was a Latina, and it was like, no, no, it's, it's a cultural, there's a cultural mixing anyway. Also, like DJ envy, sits in front of a computer like was hard for him to Google after Latino like envy, doesn't even. He doesn't even speak into the mic. And he has a radio show, so. Oh, girl. Google. I hope that, that sorry if you're still listening and you've made it past minute ten that you understand what was going on, as white power. I'm like. Hashtag unplug, your modem. So we're here with a guest. We have not even talked about you or. Mimi. Maybe. Go, five years from the amazing podcast Latinos with lunch. Tell us about how you like why you felt the need to start this podcast. Well, I was listening to a lot of podcasts back in the day. And maybe like five years ago when I really got into podcast and I was looking for, like queer voices, and I found podcast like the read and a lot of actually listen to a lot of black podcast. And I was thinking, there's no there's really no podcasts with like to queer Latinos, like our age like, and we were in our twenties, then bubbly those all fuck. I don't know how old he was. He was an artist. Not even here to defend himself. I always make fun of it. Bring over this stuffed animal who sit in his place. God. No. But I just I just wanted to hear to queer dudes let the nose talking about whatever and something that I really love about these podcasts that I was listening to was just hearing people of color have conversations and the kind of like nerd out on everyday things. And when I met by lethal, he was the first Mexican art historian that I have ever met. And as soon as we started talking we, we, we became instant friends, and we would go out to lunch and just have these hour long conversations and one day I said, we need to record this. I think this would be a good podcast, and that's how we started about two and a half years ago. Yeah. Yeah. And so how do you feel the show has, like, what is something that, like, what is it was a theme that you feel like is really important, too? To keep to keep alive to keep talking about, like how we talk about drag and clearness and stuff. Well, since we're both kind of in the art world because I'm an artist. He's in our historian, we try to touch on that alone. And that was really our focus in the beginning now it's, it's kind of evolved into something else, and, and that's okay. It's a little bit. If you listen to our older episodes, the quality is not that great. So don't go too far back. Nobody ever wants to go. We know sewn in a Cup of side down. Let's go. But we had very specific like researched episodes. And now because of our listeners, they just kinda wanna hear us banters. So we like every other episode kind of do that now and that's been fun. But like Bob Ethan, I just had a talk like we need to reel it back in, buddy. Like, we haven't really God research for like the last few episodes, you know, and now it's turned into more like an interview based episode. So I think at the beginning, it was all about, like visibility because, like, we say every episode visibility leads to representation, representation matters. And, and that's something that we learned from doing the show because we used to just say, because visibility is important, but visibility can also be trap just like you work somewhere and they're like, look how diverse our staff is. I'm like, oh, yeah. All the Brown, people are either cleaning, the building or doing or the assist. They're not H. Presence. It's yeah. Where are you in the hierarchy backlash type versity can actually have very dangerous thing? So the way that those people are represented and or what they are doing is actually the important thing. So now it's kinda shifted our thoughts. I think, and we are now more about showing kind of the, the it's, it's about us growing and learning about our own culture. And then it's also about I think us just being ourselves and showing that, hey, we can talk about British bake off. Love has nothing to do with let me that. And we just get into it, right. Like it's, it's just a it's just a way to. I sounds really fucked up in a way, but like to show that we're Latinos, and we're human, right? Baking to. Yeah. We like lunch wanna make trifle. Oh my gosh. I would love to. Are you gonna, yes? Oh, yeah. But I can't do that. Because. No. No. We've baking on Kito. We make some really good like Kito chocolate cookies. How do you do that without sugar and flour new? Well, we use almond. Flour, okay. And I make the chocolate chips, which is maybe, maybe if one of us works at the energy, we'll show you later then and we make the chocolate chips as we use. Called arith- rattle, which is actually a sugar derivative from sugar alcohol, and it is the only sugar substitute that does not affect your blood sugar at all. Because it doesn't get absorbed by your body. It is simply there for taste, and it comes out in your urine. So it's actually like the best shows to substitute in the world. That's, that's a good tip. Thanks. Yeah. Anyway, just because people ask me, I, I called my dad the other day. And I'm like, listen you need to start using this, because my father's diabetic and it runs in my family. So I was like, stop using ascertained causes cancer, like, you know, all these Stevie is bidder. He's. Sorry, let's look at this, a multi dimensional name is ten Jinja. Oh my God. Weird. I was I was very enlightened by your enlightened by all of your episodes. But specifically the episode about cocoa. Oh, yeah. That was really amazing as, as a Latin x person, look at you. And you're leading ex and so proud of you, I had such I'm we and we talked about this. How? I am surprised at how much of a blind spot, I had for the scene at the border. And so I'm I'm wondering if there are. From the way you just described your podcast. It sort of sounds like you're also learning about not just your culture, but yourself, as you, as you're discussing these topics is there anything like that. That sort of blew your mind when you researched it and had to talk about it on the podcast. Yeah. I mean, the, the movie CoCo was a big deal because when I first saw it, I'm like, oh, my God. I love it. I feel Nancy. Right. And. Of a lethal watched and he was like, I fucking hated every second of it. And I'm like why? And then he broke my heart when, and then I like you know what? I did think that was really fucked up that there there's, there's even a border at the afterlife. Can't even right. Dad and cross the border. That's so up, right? But walls everywhere I guess, I guess the biggest shocker was to is what we were just talking about that. I am a white passing Latino 'cause my whole life. I thought it was like so Brown and down. Like, I'm, I'm Mexican obviously look at me, right? But I'm not I have a lot of, I guess, recognizing my privilege as this gender white passing able bodied Latino is something is something that I learned through the podcast because I was never aware of my privilege and now I see everything different. Now, I see, like, oh, the reason why maybe the reason why I'm allowed into all these certain spaces is because like I'm. A non-threatening Latino Latino, you know, if I was darker, would I be treated the same way that's something that I definitely learned from talking to so many amazing academics and friends on our podcast. Yeah. Yeah. That's one of the things I like personally love about Latinas, who lunches that because I work in the arts, and it's basically what I've dedicated my life to hearing the dialogue that you, you have coming from the artist's perspective in the historian perspective is one that I really love because I love that you, you come to it from this, like, working artists space, where you're dealing with all of these issues of, how do you install things and, you know, the issues that come up and, you know, and you're also creating our at that Siri much in, in tune with your culture, you know, which, and there's one of your pieces that are amazing like well, they're all amazing, but I love the Las Vegas. Sign. Oh, yeah. That's incredible. I think that's my favorite the cardboard started sign. Yes. Yeah, thank you. Yeah. I, I was telling Robert the other day about it. I'm like you just have to go to website and see it because it's, it's really have seen it. But I hear you saying started us that triggered the memory of seeing it. Because with the Las Vegas signs. I'm imagining sign Vegas. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But the with the star this, it's like until you say it out loud, you don't get it because you almost don't see the. Yeah. Then, that's no. I saw the E N. I said. Oh, yeah. I was like, yeah, you're you're playing with very recognizable. Agassi iconography. And it's that, like, adding the you know, the that if you know if you're just looking at it quickly. Yeah. Probably wouldn't because it's so familiar. Yes. Describe the peace. It's a it's a replica of the start aside from the nineteen sixties. I believe is when the sign went up, and it's like a mushroom, cloud kind of shape and it's used to say stardust on it, and I changed say s that of us because that's how like my grandma and the best part about, and it's all made out of cardboard, and, like hand painted and stuff, which is I love working in cardboard, and paper because I was broke artists. And that's all I had. And then it's also like thing like ties it to this, what they call an art world, like a squatter aesthetic, which is like you make do with what you have thing and the best part about it was sitting in the gallery. When I first put the piece up, and then the white people. Yep. We're talking about. Why people again to your listener. Would stand there and they didn't understand. They're like, as stardust were they do in the gallery. Yeah. The just saying over and over again until they then it clicked, you know like oh starters starters, yeah. Audio guy, or they thought it was. Eric Estrada for some reason. Estrada air. And yet, when I saw it, I thought, oh, it's like if my parents. Immediately. I was just like because of your let next routes. You are. You are Hispanic. I matter bring that and then Bubby lethal brings this, because like art history to me is, it's what I studied, and it's, you know where I come from, but to hear him poke all these holes in it. It's like my favorite thing because the thing is that art history, has basically turned art into the elitist ivory tower that it doesn't have to be, you know, to the point where it puts people off from going to museums and just enjoying things visually because at the end of the day when you study or theory, I forget the name of it. There's this emotion. Right. And so the theory is that if you go in, and consumer in whatever form right doesn't have to be the fine arts, which, again, it's another word. I hate because it's like it's all crab yet, at the end of the day like this did not exist. It's made from very basic materials paint, and some sort of fabric or in your case paper or rock, like it's these things have value because we're give. Ving them Bill. They don't have an inherent value. They're just materials anyway. But if you go and it makes you feel something then it's done its job. And that's what I think a lot of people don't understand when they're put off from going to museum where they feel like they have to dress up and because people Kwait museums churches, it's you mentioned it before on the podcast for it's like a study was done a long time ago. And, you know, these like different public spaces were like ranked, you know, and people put museums of their with churches and people don't go to church that often, so they don't go to museums, but I love how does like I hate our history because it's all like it's not about appreciation. It's not even about getting the, the history. Right. It's been turned into a narrative, and then there was an episode that you did that really did it for me. We're you talked about colonial art and colonialism, and where where I used to work at the Hispanic society of America. We were very like geared toward filling that void in, in our collection. So we almost exclusively collect a colonial art during the period. I was there from everywhere. Our mission was to collect are from everywhere that Spanish or Portuguese had been spoken Rizvo can. So we were very focused on making sure that colonial our was given the same space as Spanish are because, you know, in our history, you're not talking. You're not taught colonial art. It's like, oh, it's over there. It's not as nice. It's, it's, it's okay. It's imitation. But it's not you had its own rules. Anyway. That's what I love is like you explore these, these things that depending on people's disipline. They don't wanna go there because it pokes holes in the foundations of all the stuff that they built up. And I, I like that, that you and will take the conversations that means a lot to me. So typically with things like that. So that's awesome. Thank you know, I am actually I'm gonna have a fan girl moment right now. I can't believe that you to listen to my podcast. I am like such a fan of you guys. It's that's really awesome. That you're actually referencing episodes right now is like blowing my mind. You know, thank you guys always do research, though. I love I love listen to your episode guys don't fuck around your I know. I don't know if you saw me looking Robert, because we kind of went through a similar thing and it happened within the last year or so, where in the beginning, we started out like it's going to be an oral history like this is what it is all the time. And then certain point there's only so many people that you can interview. And so you don't get somebody from this week. So it went from scrambling to put together like our current events episodes way back when where we'd be like, oh, God like, like to then people responding in a different way to them. And we were like, oh oh, so we can have our voices two, and it was very interesting discovering that through the podcast and kind of having the, the, the balls to say some of the things in like I think the one that was supposed to me is when we did our like our pride storytelling series where we pick a topic every week, you know, or first exposure to, like gays in film, or this that and the other and it's just kind of like a prompt. You know, like when you're in school, and it's like you never know what's gonna come out of that. And, and now we're kind of we've even had the let's real it in, let's like, you know, like start focusing more. And now we're having interviews kind of, again coming in a in a more concentrated way because you have to achieve that balance, you know, somewhere because I don't know then you can exist in a vacuum, but it's good. I like listened to besides you guys just talk about whatever. Like when you guys talking about watching that Meg movie fun episode. And we like the what I wanna. Yeah. I remember the first one of your what two episodes, Hugh, where the first one, I listen to you were talking about what I don't know you were talking about going to each others. Wait a minute. All my God. Hold on. One of you was talking about how you didn't let the other one know when something was like a family gathering thing. Oh, it was about. He came to your grandmother's house that he went in the fridge that. No, no, no. That wasn't it? That was. Spec because you were talking about. When he said. Episode weight. When I heard that. Because my grandmother, my grandmother, would tell it neat. They have. Don't go pass. Don't go past the room that chair that you were. I invited to this. Kasai bless okay down. My grandma is always going to hate him. I was when you're talking about how he was like, and you never tell me when things are happening. It was very. Belittle doesn't believe in planning ahead that way, like, hey, I'm having this really important thing that's happening that you have to be tonight and it's happening in three hours. Okay. Well, I'm not going to be there because I have that bitch. I'm professional, you know, or how many like my family. Does that? And it's like I'll see, but that's social media and I'm like, oh, call my father and be like, yeah. Oh oh, yeah. Could've told you know and I'm like, but, but she did. And so now I'm not there. I didn't know anything was happening. I'm like, you know, just you know, but I think we take a break. Before we do that. I just wanna do this before you forget, okay? I want to we're going to give a shoutout to cousins. Oh my God. So okay, so drag first of all, I also love you guys for being drag queens. Interview some of my favorite drag queens, and that's why that's why I found out about you because we don't our doing. We're doing a panel with Sasha voor my God. You'll rack years ago, and I needed to do research, but because I'm always working with my hands. I can't really read that, you know, I don't tend to like read about these people in the on the internet. So I saw that you two did an episode of Sasha Lord, and that episode just blew my mind. You guys were so well researched, and it was just like amazing. So that was fun episode ever since then I've been listening to you all, and then I was somehow oh, and because of drag I reconnected with my cousin Stephanie who actually runs the original, the which gone on east desert in, and, and we started about drag one day, and then I brought up grizzly KiKi and she's like, oh, I listen to them for forever. So she's a huge fan of you guys. Thank you for listening. Listening. And I hope that one day, we can his Stephanie's written in baby. Well, I, I hope that one day we can go. Oh, yes, he says. The original. Save water. More than one drink Margaritas. There is. There's like I think there's, like five of them. Now, I don't know. I only go. Hers. Well, she works at the original one, I think they are or her family's. Okay. Work an empire. Yes, they built an empire dotting, right? I mean after all it got torn down. They have a billboard. The most impressive thing is they have a billboard at the airport that says, like the originally or the limits on in the locations, and it's in between Donny and Marie and should I twain, and I'm like, look at that. We have made it fast. Oh my goodness. Like seriously though, totally. That's why I mean. Well, we're gonna twain did throw the first brick stone. You can't you know as the should I twain fan. I don't ever talk if I do lotion twain when I heard her speak on drag race. Like I don't think I ever heard her voice speak, but she lost her voice along anyway, talked about. But, but that's, that's her. That's you're speaking voice. I was like, wow. What a voice stuff. Yes. Thank you so much. We're listening. Okay. So we're gonna take a break comeback. We're gonna talk about some some other stuff. I'm gonna cause I don't even know what we're going to talk about going to find out. We're all gonna find out together around. Oh, hi, it's me Robert, and I have a question, do you shop on Amazon, if so you can be a supporter of our show? Just go to grizzly KiKi dot com and click the Amazon button. And our menu anytime you shop on Amazon using our link. We'll hit a small commission on everything you buy, and it's free. There's no cost to you, as the money comes out of Amazon's pocket, not yours so book market use it. And every time you buy from Amazon. You'll be helping us keep a key key going. And we're back we're still here with probably fall from Latinos who lunch. Yes, shadow tall. The white people listening. White love that you're sending out. There reminds me of what should we watching? It was like I just love white light. Love. Cure or love. Just looked at each other. Annual. Who are you dating? He wasn't dating her. They were having sex. So anyway, so we're gonna talk about you. Okay again. Sure. So even the toughest we want to know about where you're from, what was what it was like growing up there. I'm from Las Vegas and it and to me it was regular. I mean, it was just like a normal childhood, but now that I've traveled a lot, I can see why people think it's weird that I'm from Las Vegas question is to get a lot was like, do you live in a casino, right? Because people don't realize that the strip is just a small part of less Vegas and it's just like any like town in the south west like New Mexico Zona actually, I call, I think Las Vegas is like the biggest suburb of LA like we're pretty close. So the last similarities to Los Angeles, but I mean, being from there his weird because it's a twenty four hour town, and I mean, I know they say New York is a twenty four hour town, but. The city that never sleeps. But it does like there's, there's I mean, things shut down in Vegas things. Literally do not shut down. You can be in a bar all night long. You can gamble all night long. You can buy alcohol at anytime. I go some states and you can't buy like a call past nine I'm like what the fuck is going on here. There's some some states for like their accounts for you can't sell them hall, dry counties. Yeah. Three interest. I went to Arkansas with my family one time, because at an art show there and my uncles are trying to buy beer Pasini, and they're like, you gotta go to Missouri for it. I was just about to say what you what were you doing in Arkansas? They hadn't argue Arkansas the WalMart lady Alice Walton built a giant like two billion dollar art museum. And I was in one of the first art show. This is crystal bridges. Core. It's amazing shit. I have not been there. But I remember shut up to the original WalMart in Bentonville, Arkansas. Have you heard it on bridges? Is she a drag Queen, and our go? There are actual shut. Now come into the stage Christmas. Bridges. No, it's incr-. So. Museum. The WalMart woman, yet she built this. I mean, and they have a an incredible like like a like a almost encyclopedia encyclopedic. I'm having a very popular optic moment right now, an encyclopedia collection, but it's like the space there are actual like bridges. It's little, yeah. She had a river basically rerouted so that the museum could float on top river. So there's literally crystal bridges voting on like, like the Lou dubbing. Yeah. Have you seen the I haven't seen it literally runs through the whole music like there are and the roof of the museum like it's pierced so that as the sun ARC's creates different patterns throughout the museum with, like old masters because they send a portion of the loose collection over there every year, and they cycle it out anyway. Like the architecture. That's a whole other podcasts architecture of museums. Yeah. That is crazy the rubbers like next. I know the, the me from New Jersey is like that's crazy. But what does the mall like he's like, is there a clear there? No, so speaking of malls. So one of the things that I didn't think a lot of people say, Las Vegas doesn't have any culture, but the funny thing is, is the Las Vegas is full of it and full of culture, and it's full of it. I see what you did there. I did that on accident. But I'm stuck with it card with Atlanta. Vegas is meant to attract people from all around the world. So it's almost like this weird like funhouse mirror. So like when people go there, it reminds you of a lot of different places. So like when you guys went there, for example, you went to the Venetian Caesar's palace, the Paris, right? And the more. I travel the more that I see, like Vegas also reflected, now, it's like art imitating art, like, now, for example, I just went to Europe recently and like going through the airport. I'm like walking around the airport. And I'm like, oh, this is Las Vegas this the way, the way finding in this airport like in these shops is taken directly from the interior design of casinos. You kind of get lost in this duty free section. You know, and they kind of make you like snake you everything and Las Vegas is. That's what the strip is turning into. Unfortunately is. Like a giant airport basically, like where people are just like walking through, and they don't know what part of the airport there. We, we walked through three casinos, you didn't know and we didn't know because I know think Dolly Parton was doing, you know, feel Ren feel around was being shot at the initial were there. This is like two thousand sixteen. I wanna say, sure. And I was like, oh my feeler n it's doing like a one to feel registering woman show, like I would have loved to see that we were going escalator at the Venetian the weird, like like one on a slant. Yeah. And there was no escalator on the bridge of size. But okay, like I'll take this. They took prisoners through there to die. But now there's an escalator here. So we'll take it. Well, and then somehow we went from Venice to Rome. Yeah. And we didn't realize it. Yeah. And it also took an hour to find the gondola stand because I was like let's do the Gondolo because it's not expensive and it looks kind of fun. And there's a fake like ceiling. Guy. I was all about it. I was like the artificiality of it. Like I was like I just wanna go and look at everything I don't even wanna gamble. That was my moment. When we lights. Oh, I love to gamble. But I meant the Scott like the guy on my God. It's a fake sky from showgirl. That was my moment. They went all in. It's interesting how the reality then become swimming normal. It's just a very yes. So that's something that I love is like the facade being to us. The facade is real lake. So like everything is basically cardboard when they were celebrating Chinese New Year of nation. Oh, yes. So that was the other like okay every casino is, is celebrates every Chinese Asian really holiday, because I mean, that's, that's a lot of the clients Maga's there from China or they're in Asia. If you notice every, yeah. Every casino in Vegas. I mean, the ones that were the Asians, go to gamble. They don't have four levels with the number four on them. That's bad luck. Yeah. And they usually have lions, the ones that kind of like dragons, the front doors of. Like the foods. Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. The dogs because because at the entrance of every casino like doesn't matter what they were a lot of them, though, that, yes, they were huge. Yes. They were like the ones that they put in front of every panda express. I'm chicken. Yeah. I love panda express. I never eaten at appendix. What's you haven't live? We'll because. In New York. You know, I mean, it's not it's not it's not the same American chains. But yeah, like panda express very like particular Latino or appendix because we would get us we've fried rice from the corner chains. New York Chinese take chino Latino? Get your Chinese food and then have dessert, which is just qual- the shells with cream cheese. What's amazing where, where am I in that this is not a thing that I've experienced only guava shows with cream cheese are amazing? I've never had gone there. The one day anyway, Vegas anyway. If you haven't been Vegas, I don't know why I'm always like an ambassador for Vegas, go to Vegas. You don't have to gamble. Now, there's so much. I mean, there's so the thing with Vegas now is that they attracted all these families to Vegas in the nineties, that was like the family friendly era. And then they figured out like, oh, like kids, don't spend money, you know. And like they don't they can't gamble. And their parents busy, taking care of their kids that they sub gambling anyway. So they got rid of that. And then all these kids, that have these fond memories of Las Vegas are now millennials right? Like in that can gamble, but they don't wanna gamble. They wanna have an experienced everything about experiencing things and Instagram shit now right? So so now Vegas has changed on the strip now. It's all about the day clubs pool. Parties fine dining Tate club. There's every casino has a date. You can go during the day or the day. Yes, I don't do that. I don't go near water. So I don't understand that like. Do I do take a shower once a day? Yeah. She'll melt. Sometimes I drink water. But, but then there's a lot of other stuff to do. Biggest like there's a lot of beautiful nature. If you're into that, you can go hiking the Hoover dam, you know there's a lot of beautiful things. When you come visit we just went to see Britney, but can we can we also go play go play the Britney Spears slot machine? Get the bonus and she thinks toxic. I love my God. I like this. I like to pardon. I like the REBA one fancied. There's a but yes, there's a Riva Slava she'd. Yeah, I, I loved I one and she seems fancy during she's does. Five hundred dollars or three hundred dollars and Dolly started singing nine to five, and I got cocky, and then I lost it, and then I went to the willy Wonka machine and I was like, fuck it. I'm not doing this. What are you guys like to play slots, or do you gamble on the stuff? Makes me nervous. I don't know how to do any of it. So when you I'm also don't like doing that. I don't like to gamble at all basically around it. And I've seen it ruin so many. Wallet to stay with. It is guests. And then same. Yeah. Same. But I love being go. First of all, if you haven't gone to an OG like bingo hall in Las Vegas. It seeing it. They're trying it. And you get free drinks, and it's like you can buy in for like seven bucks the cheapest and it's like one hour of entertain you show up like with, like, you're like you're lucky treasure. Trolls shit the last time Olivia. She took her green troll like the little thing. And she, she didn't win my friend Karl one, but that was because the troll was facing him so that we learned yet the face the troll torch you. Okay. Do you not know about how go treasure? Trolls are like a thing. They're like a good luck charm for. Bingo. Okay. So all the old ladies, who have their like sequin hats, matching fanny pack of Bill go, and they'll set up like they're like lucky. Treasure troves than you face them away from you. Okay. Between that? And the crew cream cheese WADA. I feel like I've been deprived own special marking that I knew about I grew up in church where they had. They had bingo nights, and you could smoke in the interior, which was the cafeteria for the church's school, the churches elementary school. There are bingo halls smoking section. So in Vegas, but there were no trolls everyone have their own bingo markers, but Notre lls. Yeah. Oh, okay. And then so downtown Las Vegas. There's a few casinos that still have slot machines where you can put coins in them, and then coins come out operated slots. Yes. And there's some places that will do like if you go on. On a Thursday. They'll do lessons, so you can like play like quarter blackjack, or quarter roulette, craps and the dealers actually teach you how to play. So, yes, when you said lessons, I was like, so there's a certain way to pull. Yeah. That's what I thought these machines. Table games table games. So it's one because you're not really losing money. And I mean you're learning. I wanted to go with a big plastic bucket win a dollar. Yes. Yes. It's so much fun. My grandfather wants came home from Atlantic City with two huge like plastic buckets. That was my neighbor kept them in the buckets because I was like you're going to cause my mother and aunt used to go with my grandparents when they were little to Atlantic City. But, like we never did you know, and so he went once and came back, and I was like, I wanna see bucket because my grandparents had a collection of these buckets and cups, and like, you know, and I was like, drink Kool-Aid out of, like forget what because Tropicana or something like that. And he came home once to huge buckets, and we got all the change, and it was like, I don't know a lot. But I was just right. I was like. That would hurt those living in coins. Windsor dirty I used to collect those buckets, I would make my parents go from 'cause I grew up going to Atlantic City, every summer, and I would make my parents walk all, all up and down the boardwalk collecting the buckets from each casino. And for some reason they would get tired right before the Bally's grand because it was the one that was at the far and of the boardwalk, and so I didn't get one of those for a very long time, and it was very disappointed, but eventually completed my collection. I've never been there. I wanna go to letting city just to see it's depressing. Yeah. It's press depressant laws. You buffet though the Balaj. Where do you work God? You went there for a drag show. They do have acute traction, Sherry vine, organizes, is it. It's like throughout the year. She does it. Yeah. She does it. I think she does one in the summer and then another for Halloween and they're like, the theaters. Gorgeous. And we went to the buffet at the borgata and she was really good. Really good. Because normally prime rib at these like buffets. Are disgusting delicious? What's your favorite thing about buffets the meets? No, I think it's just like looking at it, honestly. Because like I will always overdo it. And then I'm like, what is this garbage on my plate like that? Shouldn't even be like, like I shouldn't be eating all of these countries at once. Yeah. Sometimes it's just strange. But it's just like looking at how much stuff there is, is sometimes kind of fun. Yeah. And then everything's like big but then you get to the desert. Action, and they're all tiny thing, and that doesn't make any sense to me. Although the gotta had good desserts because they had those little, like, desserts at a tiny, tiny plastic shot glass. You know, that's like a Kate. Yeah. I like I like because you can just. I like that. You didn't ask me, but I'm gonna answer anyone cares. Because I grew up going to buffets all over the summer so too. I have two answers the first one is the, the soup station at the Harris in Atlantic City. She's sieff. I, oh, I love the soup station because they always had clam chowder, and I fucking love New England clam chowder, and I could eat as much of it as I want. And you take as many. Always crackers. If you wanted I love waster. When I tell you getting fat as I am was an investment. She was an investment. I spent most of my most of my futures were collected at the, the Harris buffet. So, and then my second answer, I'm almost ashamed to say this, but the Trump, marina. I know I know problematic is Trump arena, Headey delivered, right? Trump. Marina, had a delicious breakfast buffet that I sometimes dream about when like I wake up in the morning and I'm starving. I'm like God. I would love a plate of like the biscuits there and like bacon and sausage and some eggs. It was just like it was heaven, and we my parents, and I, we only went one time to the breakfast buffet because we would always wake up late. But it was beautiful that one day. I just had a memory. Yeah. Sorry, my favorite buffet of all time is the is the sizzler with the little shrimp, growth. Always look like a little hut. Knicks to like the Bradley's Cal doors. Well, not WalMart in our case. But like use like you didn't know if you should go. But then you would go and the popcorn shrimp was like on a truck. Was did they have like popcorn corn like creamed corn? Was that a thing? Did I make making this up? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Puppies, almost right fried. Oh, yeah. Deliver that chicken nuggets in the shape of dinosaurs. We're going to say favorite buffet wanna make workers took me to the run or lunch buffet at the breakers in pomp each and like it's like you have to dress up because it wears this the breakers. It's this incredible. Like one of the like grand hotels, right? Like so it's we're stance that he was gonna take Dorothy on the golden girls. There's no, you have to drive across the bridge because like Palm Beach is its own thing. So you have to drive across the bridge, that leads you into Palm Beach to I forget, what it's called, but they call it like Florida's radio drive because it's like all the stores that are on day drive, but they're literally like smaller, and then you drive to the breakers, which is like on this, like anyway, you're eating in this dining room. That's like one hundred feet tall with windows, and you're just seeing the ocean, but you can get everything including lamb chops cooked to like your specifications. But my favorite thing was the. The chocolate macadamia nut pie at the breakers that it was like I have been looking for this recipe now for over ten years. And I even emailed and call them and sent a fax ones. The fact facts facts, I called and they really you can send it to this number. We don't know if we'll send it to you, but you can ask for the recipe this pile was you had them facts they gave me the option persistent. And I said, okay, I'll send you send a fax when you were ten years old. I wasn't ten I was in my twenties. I'm just imagining like point we literally that was just like, yeah. That was my favorite faith thing was talk because I think about that pie anyway. Yeah. Well, the nice I mean. Yeah. The desert game. You're right. The desert game is kinda low in a lot of these casinos. Everybody just wants to meet. Yeah. Like. Everybody food. And I'm like, no, I don't go. I don't wanna do that to myself, I yeah, what's your what's your not fantasy buffet situation? But, like, yeah, my go-to I don't know why I always go for the Asian food. That's like my favorite hang. And then like I love ranch dressing. So I will also like get everything that I can dip in ranch. That'll be my second. Usually. Okay. My first course, is usually Asian food. Okay. Chumming. And then like, I mean I don't I'm trying to eat meat anymore. But, you know, if the old me would get like orange chicken like brought beach rock, like the fried chicken dipped in sauce. Okay. Yes. Second plate would be my ranch dipping plate which would be like every kind of fried and battered, meet that they had like months, rela stakes pizza. Yeah. Hush puppy, like things that are good dipped in. So I would just get out literally get a Super Bowl. Fill it with ranch. And then get all the things that you could dip in ranch fascinated with is a very strange face. Right. I not only offended but I'm also hurt. I'm not gonna like Robert Robert did wink buffalo chicken dip. That's Kito with a whole bottle of ranch dressing. And she was good. I just like I was half about, thank you ranch dressing is one of those things that I because I'm just I don't have an version to it. Yeah. But it's just I've heard that a lot of people are like obsessed with it. And I'm like it might be a west coast thing to know. I do. I do not really hard to your friend. Leave. So. Are your hissy miles loves Ren? Oh my gosh. And she did make a comment about how I think I forget, what it was that we were watching, but it was something like people appropriating white culture by using grant food. Also, when you brought up your ranch dipping plate, I for some reason, imagine a plate covered in vegetables, because I'm just like 'cause to me ranch dressing is the shit, you see in the hidden valley commercials on the kids are all like eating their vegetables with like you. I do love dipping a carrot. See, I love those like Roth by shuttle released celery and carrots ranch. Oh, yes. No cauliflowers bed. Cauliflower ranches good for no cause cauliflower is Morphing face. Right. All of those like. Like. Like the little lowers hardier. It's crunchy. It's not like I don't like broccoli doesn't. That's not cute. Right. Right ranch. But I like ranch on certain things. Yes. Just really quick. As you mentioned. Yes. See, I love to see, but she was that dragged Khan, and she was dressed. She was like a drag version of, of pennywise, and I hate scary movies, and I'm terrified of do I do I hate. That's why that's why I love scream because we were talking about scream earlier because it's not that I mean so camping so campy that I I'm able to watch those movies. It's still, it's still scary to me, but I'm able to watch them because they're so funny, but I was interviewing everybody basically at Julie's booth except for Pissy because I was so scared. I was trying to be cool. And she was so nice. I just want to give her shot up because she was so nice. But I was also it was true test. I was terrifying. You've been there on Sunday, you would've seen addresses a nun. Oh my God. Scarier. Mary. Yeah. My god. No. But that looked was incredible. Oh my God. One of her best. I looked was. Oh, wow. Yes. Pissy and her husband were watching scream last night at the same time watching scream to the same. We were watching his see was there with, what's his name that Charlie wait shit Georgie Georgie? Her husband was dressed as Georgie with the red tape David was Georgie. Yeah, that was that to me was the kicker. My could they went to city. Looking for an arm? She was going to like, you know, walk around with an arm and David saw the like. Like they had a Georgy costume, and I thought it was so durable. Because when I saw them walk in, I saw David with the balloon and I was like, oh, my God. This is brilliant and Pissy head a like an SS Georgie fascinating in her hair like that was it was like, yeah. Couple costume goals. That's awesome. Like that was amazing. Yes. Anyway, anyway, buffets. Vegas is weird. Why scary scary and my white people are white, and my family. My family is all from Las Vegas to. So, I mean, when I think of I think home, I guess, that's what I wanted to get to. And it's I don't know. I think Vegas is a really cool weird place and it's and I know that it's an awful place that can be an awful place. And just it's what you make of the New York could be an awful place. If if you like the thing is just market, the way the things are marketed. Yeah. Like people live everywhere. It's just that. Love, Vegas is kind of to me. Anyway, it's marketed as the specific fantasy, you know, New York is marketed as a fantasy of shorts and grow New York is not what they say is. But right. She's dirty dirty off saying Bravo, Bobby from the Bronx. But it's t shirts that I got I'm still probably. I'm really making my full jaylo transfer basely nothing impressing, more than the Las Vegas airport. Oh, really? I have that airport was because I'm a checked baggage person. I heard you talk about how you don't check luggage. Yeah. I don't understand people that don't check luggage. It's like I think checking luggage is my ranch dressing. Okay. If I don't have putting I don't check a bag or two. Something's wrong, something's wrong. Okay. There was one trip we went on where I did not check a bag and I was like you felt we like. There for two days. It said, George Carlin skit, have you ever seen where he talks about your stuff? Yeah. Yeah. That's that. Like I, I relate like the supply has been stretched. Right. So I took two bags nobody else did in our trip, and of course, my bags came on the furthest carousel Ono and they were doing construction in the report. Is that big? They actually call construction. They had like barricades up. Yeah, it was just so big, it was just so big. It's massive that I put his like they have time square size billboards on the inside and Cup casinos. Yeah. Like slot machine lightness were slot machines, right? By the carousel. So the only airport that's still has smoking sections inside. Oh, that was the one thing about Las Vegas. Trove me, everybody's smoking everywhere. They have these glass cubes with slot machines in them. Smoking sections still in them. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. That was the only thing is just because I smoke if you like, but it's like we will. At home every night, and I would literally have to go wash every, 'cause I was like this is not coming in our bedroom, like just a lie. Alive with a lot. You know, you wanna know secret, you can put in the freezer, and it gets all the way. Something I learned sided have to wash. My, my signature red sweater, everytime, three your freezer. Yes, I did this artist residency casino in a hated them. I swear smoke smoke. And so I would just throw it in the freezer every night. Yeah. And then you have a nice, cool rap in the morning. Yes. Everything you should keep in the freezer, your eye cream while you're in the fridge, but your freezer in the sweater, your sweater in the freezer, ideal meal. I want to I want to give a shoutout. And I like rest in peace. Whatever you call that to miss Colombia. She was a huge. She was huge fixture in the queer community in queens, and unfortunately, her body was found at Reese beach. And, you know, I I mean I I, I don't I don't even know what to make of it. It's, it's devastating. She was literally, a colorful. You know, like a colorful moment of joy, whenever we saw her at, at cleans pride and queens fried as we've talked about on the podcast our favorite. So it's really it's release at that. She's, she's not going to be there next year and that fucking sucks. I'm also like it's before, like during break, we're talking about it, and how it's it's way too similar to Marsha, be a little Marsha p Johnson's death. You know, it's like, yeah, I like this Columbia was a clear icon. And it's like stop throwing our people in the water. Like it's just not. I don't know why. But some getting washed that. That's what you know, there's like these ways to go that are just awful. Yeah, that's one of them, you know, and it's like I just, I don't know. It's just I don't know if and other investigating, but it's it'll probably end up. You know on the back burner somewhere. Unfortunately, I know who miss Colombia. Is. But can you guys just tell me a little bit about, like maybe describe her? The thing is everybody's seen her. Yeah. I know she looked she is. She just has been doing drugs, since I believe the eighties earlier and was was diagnosed with HIV early on, when she was she declared that she was just going to live her life, colorfully and out loud. And that's what she's done. And I mean, I've read about because there are quite a few things out there about her, like she's a known figure in New York and in queens, Robert said, but it's never been clear to me if she actually had a home. That's what I was one. But she always was, you know, like I mean, she didn't walk with her house on her back. You know, basically like it wasn't, you know, she was always kind of giving you a performance anywhere that she was. So it's something I always wondered about was how she was taking care of how she took care of herself, because she wasn't neglectful of herself or was being collective, so. So it's kind of that era of mystery about her. But yeah, that's basically, she was a like a fixture. She also had a parrot, right? Yeah. And yeah. So I imagine, you know, she, she had take them somewhere. It just she was always this figure that just kind of appeared like you never knew like where like, you know, just like drop down, and she, well there she is around the corner. And, you know, we never really understood understood who she was where she was coming from or what was happening, but it was just it was always joyful to see her whatever capacity, you know, and if it was wondering what she looked like think of jubilee, Kellyanne post-apocalyptic. Oh my God. Yes. That's it. Didn't have a beard. No. Yeah. Right. Right. We're gonna take another break. And when we come back, we're gonna talk about your art. So stick around. We'll be right back. Today's episode is brought to you by clip an innovative oral care brand. That makes it easier than ever to maintain a healthy brushing routine. The simple secret to great oral health is good technique. Consistent brushing and regular upkeep do away with the myth that more power and features means a better clean by trying out there. Beautifully designed electric toothbrushes. They also take the guesswork out of replacing your toothbrush by delivering a new head and fresh batteries to you every three months. Shipping is free, and you can cancel it anytime we use quip, and it's made us smile more, because our teeth are actually cleaned quip is offering you our listeners, ten dollars off your first refill by signing up. Try quip dot com slash peaky again. That's try clip dot com slash KiKi quip oral care designed for a modern lifestyle. Where back and it's time to talk about, like this whole big ramp up your in town to do and installation at the sugarhill children's museum in Harlem, can you tell us about the show? Yes. So the sugarhill children's museum of art and storytelling has commissioned me to make a big mural in their main space, in their museum, and it's such a weird. It's such a weird museum, because it's like a it's kind of like a legit art museum. But then it's also like a kid's museum, a children's museum in classrooms, have an artist. It's, it's pretty cool, the, the, the function of the place, I guess it's a little bit more accessible. And it's like for the community. You know, so I'm really excited to be a part of that show. And it's the first time I've ever showed in New York. So yeah, I'm really excited about it. And so I do a lot of work in opinion. Style. So and for you let the knows that are listening that are like, I can't believe just said, pin, yada, and not being yet. The fuck you. Okay. So. You're not lying enough. I know I know and I love Taco Bell to get over it. Okay. She's resurgence. In recent years. This. Surpreme come on set the when they got rid of their, their also there. Yeah. I'm really upset. That was resting peas Louis ah. I'm in okay? Okay. So the show I'm doing it. Sugarhill him is a. It's, it's a big mural. It's actually seven different murals that are collage together. And they are representations of Latin America, in popular art, and in film, and Atta mation actually, and so it starts off with these classic landscape paintings that I've been doing and I called paintings with a really like pinata, paper, mosaics almost. And so they start with the work of semi Lasco, who is a nineteenth century Mexican painter, who basically his paintings, were sent across the world different Expos back in the day to show, the beauty of Mexico, and, like, attract people to keep colonizing Mexico. So then I look at actually watched the movie that three settles recently remember that movie. Yeah. So it's like it's an old Disney movie from the forties where Donald Duck goes to Latin America, and like discovers it and like learns all about it, and different vignettes. So I took a lot of. The background animation sells like the, the, the landscapes lodge them together long with scenes from the embers new groove from cocoa, some from Peter Pan, actually because there's some indigenous like in native American that it's really racist. And Disney I know. So. So it's a collage of all these landscapes to create this like, kind of like abstract world. And that's like a commentary on like the exotic of Latin America. And also, it's also comment on like my memory in my association with home and letting America. Because as a Latino first generation American, my mom's Guatemalan my father's Mexican and both sides of my family, always refer to refer to Mexico and Guatemala as like home as the motherland. Yeah. And like it's almost like we're just here temporarily and so my, my identity was informed by pop culture. And like what I thought Mexico was or Guatemala was. And then when I went there as a child, I was like, sadly, it was like a sad truth, like, oh, this isn't like in the Disney movies, like. You know what I mean? So it's kind of a comment, it's, it's a comment on that. And, and I like to take exactly what you were saying about, like craft versus mine, art. I like to take materials that are craft and elevate them and make them into fine are like kinda I like skewing with those lines. What is craft what is folk are is fine art. And so I'm working, I do these big murals, now that take over entire spaces, and, and the work also about that is like being a person of color, and even though I'm a white passing Latino being a person of color in these spaces and taking up as much space as I can and being unapologetic about it. And also just the notion that DEA of covering every single wall in a place with color like that, that in itself is symbolic, right? 'cause a lot of these white. Institutions have white walls and, and, you know, an art, it's always looked at as you know, like bad taste to have. No negative space. Right. And I'm like, fucking basically, don't need it. I'm gonna fill it all up. It's funny because, like, yeah, it's, it's all about like this, this concept in. Hold on. I remember this correctly, it's called a horror vacuum. Yes, yes, it goes back to the ceramics of Pueblo, which were informed by the porcelain from China, pants collected by the rulers of the Middle East to then travel, Bain with them, and then it made its way to Mexico. Just look it up. It's all there. But yeah, you know this like the ceramics and surfaces. And even when you get into, like the, the colonial like concerto paintings, if you received those, they're like, encrusted with mother parole, or like churches, the baroque the what they call the, the TV baroque things with the call 'cause, like, in Mexico, there was this, like kind of filtering, and so you get this, like, Rick. Oh, baroque if I'm not mistaken. They called it. Remember, but it was like super cocoa. Like if you think about you angels in, like flowers, and but inverted call there's like one one church in Mexico City, where it's like pink and white and gold and blue. And I forget, which one it is because I, I went there when I was in Mexico City, very long time ago. And it's like you can't think because it's all covered. It's like incrusted in. Yeah. In like it's all done with plaster, but it's like all of these, like, you know, very like Anglo European concepts of art, but filtered through, you know, what, the, the local artisans craft and most most of the time, indigenous slaves. Exactly right. That they were like, yeah, they were like do this do it our way. And so it's very interesting filter that you see. And that's what you're kind of reminded me of, especially when you're doing this cut paper and then the way that I saw one of your Instagram posts, they think or maybe. Facebook, you should like there is this, like map kind of undermined by number like almost like under drawing, and I really liked that. And it reminded me two of the eighteenth, century Mexican cut paperwork. Have you received those that they would do and they will put them against blue sill, but they were these very delicate things these? The local artists do, and they would do inscriptions, but it was all paperwork, and we had one at the Hispanic society, we had to restore and it was of the bus, I'm a year from seventeen ninety eight anyway. It's very interesting because it all like is reflective of that culture of, of working with paper, you know. And it's it's not just like you know, the peanut to. Yeah. Like, you know, it's very interesting. And I don't think people see. Oh, how far back and how loaded it is totally enemy as well. Can still call tissue paper. But bitchy neck because they, they still running edition of makeup on any out things with paper and cardboard came from China lanterns screens all. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Totally, I realize, paper, has a lot to say. Yeah. Well, that's yeah. I mean it's you know where do you think the fans that drag queens us, come from right? But then we're co opted by the Spanish, and then, you know. Month on Manila, Philippines and didn't have the fringe until they were brought over to Spain. I mean, and they're you know, they all have like Asian influences, but then they became something kind of decidedly Hispanic. It's very interesting. And it's, it's like cultural say even coal exchange, but you know, kind of the taking on of things that you like, right. And then filtering. Yeah. And I find that really interesting because a lot of especially when I'm thinking of my own identity because like you, you guys and be sure we're talking about even we've had conversations, Robert about our own. Let the that were never Brown enough or never Latino enough where never this, you know. And so when you start thinking about the history of like our traditions, like in Mexico, a lot of the traditions of Mexico are there, because of colonization but because of the trade from Asia and. And yet, people are just like obsessed with like authenticity like I said before, and it's like girl, you know, we got salon tro, we've got chili peppers from China. Like I wanna be like a legit Mexican then elites Mexican food. Like, are you going to be eating is like corn tortillas, and, like, I don't know like literally just beating corn. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Those manila. The Manila that went to crusade just brought it's like nothing is ever just as simple. I think people want it. Yeah. To like be you know, like is pasta, just Italian, the hell do you think noodles like that, that's not right? He didn't have that until Marco Polo, bro. You know, he brought it back, like, yeah, it's, it's very interesting. You know. But it's people it's it takes less thought to just like have it be very like tutti you know, instead of looking like what looking at what's behind the tradition? You know, like what you're doing where you're looking at how your your culture has been taken and kind of twisted and turn in and end been used to entertain. Yeah. But in many cases losing the cultural significance that it has the people from which it was taken. Yeah. Or procreative to create in like the emperor's new groove. Yeah. You know, or here we're seeing the rotel Dorado, but no, I haven't girl. Yeah. She's probably. As much as I love Rosie Perez, that movie is very problematic. I should've used that one. I've never seen that one. Great soundtrack. Yeah. Was rosy rosy pressing for no Elton John did the soundtrack for that one horse. He of course he did. It's a I mean, it's a great town track. But it's like Elton. John king to. He did a good one. Yeah, good soundtrack, but were there. No. You know anyway. That's not. But I mean that's, that's the fun part about my art is like doing the research. Now, I I've become more of a research base artists, and that's actually thinks because he like, really made me think about why I'm using certain symbols within my work, and I was like something that was just to me, was really funny. Like to like elevate this kid's party thing, and this decoration so to me, like it was something that I was reclaiming. And in the beginning I was when I was making my first of all I didn't always make art about my identity because even when I was an art school. I realized like, hey, if I am going to make art about being Brown or being a Latino then there's no turning back. Most people of color that make art the way that they are allowed to be institutions is if they use their biography their trauma, their, their race right there colored to, to, to make a statement. It's never just about the art, you know. There, there, you have to work, even harder you have to work tap into all that pain. Exactly. Yeah. And now that I've been meeting a lot of, you know, like undocumented artists, and people of color in the art world. It's great to hear these conversations of like we had this poet. You'll see my race on our show, and he's like, girl, if they want to hear about my trauma, I charged two hundred dollars a tear, you know what I mean. Like. You know what I mean? Like I'm gonna get paid for this Trump. Right. So I, I knew even then like I don't know if I want to do that. And then as soon as I met, opinion, it was over, like everybody loved it, and that was ten years ago. And I thought, okay, I'm just gonna make one thing and get it out of the way, get like and, you know, work it out and then here I have still still doing it, right. But I guess what I realized after starting Latinos, who lunch is that I was I, I, I thought it was funny that I was making artwork that I, I was playing off the perceptions of let the right and like thinking, okay. People think that because I'm a Brown artist I need to make art about my trauma. I need to make Aren about tacos. I need to make are just like really hacky ship. I still do because I love it. But I realized that when, when I went to Mexico that, like I was making artwork for the art world. I wasn't making artwork for myself and about my family and I had this, like a come to Jesus moment in the streets of Mexico because I had this residency out there. And I was making these pinata, sculptures and hanging them in the street and calling them, interventions like, you know, and nobody saw them because I'm hanging up in yada in the street in Mexico. Who cares right? So I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm making art for white people. Right. And so as soon as I got back from that trip I said, that's I'm done with that now. My artwork is about reclaiming my identity and also validating my identity as a person from Las Vegas, we're who likes to eat ranch, dressing and fucks with Taco Bell. Okay. I am just as Latino as as as, as the next person and just because, you know, I don't you know, I don't know wanna make fun of artists that, that do vary like. Indigenous traditional shit like just because I don't do that doesn't mean that I that, that my point of view is numb valid. I know what I mean. Yeah. And so celebrating my history is important to me, but also having these conversations that we're having right now is important. And also, it's just it's just the tricky thing because there's a very fine line between celebration and like exploitation of your home. And that's something that I do. And I know and in the beginning I was doing I was exploiting my culture and my family on purpose. And, and, and it was actually hurtful. And so it's something that I'm that I'm learning how to navigate, but yeah, so what's the trip to fall into? Yes, because you're right. It is, you know, like artists of color. It some it's like it has to be very clear that this is made by somebody of color, like. That's how it works. Unfortunately, like major institutions in using the like guy, well, fine, but, you know, the fact that you 'cause like, there's a, there's a certain, there's a consciousness in your art that, like, you know what you're doing. You know, you're not like you're, you're I mean, you're simply taking the pinata in Raveling. Yeah. And that, you know, and, and you're not making something that is just hanging that doesn't take up that much space. Like you said earlier you are you're using a very traditional like, you know, the rectangle up against the wall, but it's, it's the pinata, kind of flood out and then taking over a whole wall and then taking over whole room. And so in a way it's. Even to use the word elevate. But it's like what you were saying, like, you know, like using that line knowing how to toe that line carefully. Whereas like any creating opinion can be exploited but then taking it and shifting it. And like turning it into something where now like you're kind of like inside the pinata or you're, you're experiencing it in, in more dimensions than you would have it then becomes drawing on that too. Like you said, you know, express your, you know your, your perspect- so you're not like exploiting. You're drawing from it, and that was really interesting. What you were talking about because I feel like artists of color to be accepted, you know, in the art world or like inter collection or museum collection. It there is that pressure to like be black be Mexican be round B. Whatever it is. But, like just like real like be really recognizably that, yes. That's what we want, you know, and it's like you. Should ever do the? That's what we will. Yeah. Because that's not good. I don't think right. I mean, we gotta pay rent to though. Well, of course, so I always say, I always used to be worried when they would curate me into Chico shows because technically I'm have central Americans. I'm not I'm not gonna I'm I rations, you've got by definition is a Mexican American that's lived in this country for two or three Jenner. Like for families that have been for three generations. But like I mean I always say, like if the check clears, I'm gone like, and people are really offended by that. But it's like it's not my fault. The curator's are lazy, and don't do the research. And, and I've been in enough of these shows that now a lot of the artist recognize me as she. No. And they know that I'm not really know that I know. And they know that I understand that. And that I'm towing those lines and pushing those buttons, right. Talking to panel. I call traitors out and say, hey, I'm not gonna but thank you for inviting me. Yeah. So you're holding the flag and flag. Yeah, you're like. You're like I'm here because like you paid me to be. But do you really know the definition because? Yeah. It's. Yeah. Totally and I mean I, I always I don't know. And also this thing about queer artists right? Like a lot of your artwork has to be about queens directly about that. But if you look and you kinda dig a little like it's, it's all there. Right. Like I love using this tissue paper, this material, because a lot of times, like decorating and like party things look that look like like a women's were feminine thing. So I love that. I have always like Manley, dudes at the museum helping these art handlers helping me. Just like very like gingerly like a plank tissue paper, cardboard for hours, every day, is it cut before it goes on? Yes, yes. It's all hand cut for it. Goes on the walls. Yeah. Yeah. I should come through come. Check it out. How much how much ends up just like having to be like, removed because it just gets, like messed up as it gets put on not a lot, it usually usually like if you're not careful, you get glue all over the paper, that's at the bottom, I only have to remove the stuff that's wrinkled if but I actually like when it looks handmade and drips and stuff. I kind of let it go time because I like that you see, like the artists in the work and another reason I use the material to is that it's acceptable, like people know what the material. No, the limitation Apor. So that also is part of that meeting. Yeah, it opened on. I believe it opens on Tober twenty first and there's like a private opening up Tober seventeenth Bush, guys. But yeah. And so, yeah, the show open soon. It'll be up for like a full year. So you God. Yeah. That's in ING. Oh, that's exciting. The sugarhill museum children's museum against children's museum of art and storytelling, and that's on the corner of a hundred and fifty fifth and Saint Nicholas. I remember when that building was being built 'cause I used to work just like used to work on one fiftieth and Broadway. Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a great building. I mean, it's also sign of gentrification that, that building is there. So that's another thing that I said, very strange guessing. It's like this like, it was kind of like a flag, being because remember when he worked there, I would go pick him up on the I would see it and be like this does not belong reminded me of the monolith from from space odyssey. Looks like cubes stacked on. Yeah, it kind of doesn't make sense. How can stand live room? Hurry strange beautiful. I will say of the director, everybody that works is very aware of their position in the community. And I actually have never worked for an institution. That is like so wear of that. And they're like I was really impressed by their programming because the first week I was here, the museum was still open now for the installed, but they do their programming outside of the building, also. So the people don't have to go in and just like you said, like nobody likes to go into a church. Nobody likes to go into museum, so they're reaching, and they're literally reaching I think they realize that people aren't going in the building, so they did all they do all this programming like in the street for the people, which is cool. I mean it's an imposing structure as well. So it's true. You know, when I worked at the debt. Oh my God. When I did this insulation at Denver art museum they, they had me, sit on this, like Latin x committee meeting, and they're like, how I was in this big Latino group show, and they the Denver art museum. Do you know what it looks like? It's like it's like a big silver almost looks like something out of Star Wars, and like, really sharp angles everywhere. It looks like a bunch of triangles like stack. I now I know. Yeah. And it looks like it's going to, like, okay, so they're like, what are we going to do to get this? I like I have an image in my mind, like, what are we going to do to get the Latino community, to the to the museum? I'm like, well, first of all, maybe shouldn't have a white supremacist structure. As building going to chop your head off when you walk in. I'm like you, you're not people aren't gonna come to this place. If it lit, it looks scary, like you're not going to come in here. Yeah. Oh my God. I mean it's gorgeous beautiful. It's beautiful, but it's. Yeah. It's oh God. It's so it's so. Yeah. Belabored. Yes, yes. Because it's like trying to be like trying to be trying to win an architectural award. Yes. That's what I mean. Yeah. But I mean, I guess all that to say I'm excited to be. Out to this to the cigarettes, museum. And I'm super excited because I'm also going to be showing alongside Lorna Simpson's work, and she's like Lemus. Yes. She's she's in her eighties now. I saw her work in Seattle. It was amazing. Yeah. Yeah. And as she's going to be there on the for the yeah. It's gonna be awesome. And yeah. So the show is titled liquid, which means remember me of, and it's like it's making a statement like do, I remember this from, from my trips to Latin America? Also like like cartoons as well. Remember the really racist cartoons? Oh my gosh. So the okay so I'll be quick. So I love to okay. So a lot of people see the movie yet that cover gyros. And they actually did a companion movie. That was before it called silos amigos. It was like the third and fourth Disney feature film. I think it was Snow White Dumbo said have eagles and the three caveat. The semi goes, it's really bad. And so it's like three Colorado's, but it's it's with goofy in it. So okay, so I did research on this movie, and it's so sinister so fucked up. So a lot of the Tino see this move like a Disney coming to Latin America, as like, wow, Disney really with us, like he loves Latin America, and it became this big thing, and now anytime go to Mexico still to this day, people are obsessed with Disney rights global, and but especially in Latin America, like, I don't know how many else's I saw last time I went to Mexico like walking around dressed up. And like the squares everywhere, you know, we really like Times Square. Yes, there's dressed up as they love. Disney there anytime at Disney movie comes out. And I can't even imagine now that co came out, anyway. Okay. So this does ams Lewis amigos was actually funded this. Those two movies were funded by the US government. As part of the good neighbor policy because they didn't want the nuts. They didn't want Latin America to side with the Nazis during World War Two so they sent Disney down there with his animators to do research for these films to play nice with Latin America. So it's all a political, like it was all political move on the part of the United States. Yeah. Problems isn't that crazy? I had no idea. Literally. So, yeah. A lot of sense to propaganda. Oh my. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No anyway. Yeah. And actually, you know, the movie that, that made me think of this idea was the movie, Selena another shadow today, low, because that movie is, is such a cultural touchstone. Now for Ladda cheek gun, a lot of Mexican Americans and it's almost seen as a documentary. And you sometimes have to remind people like you'll know that, you know, that's, like, that's like, just based on a true story. So that's actually a girl. I went to high school with who was a huge Selena fan. Yeah. And we watched Selena in, like, in Spanish clause for, I don't know why. Because it wasn't in Spanish, but it was like, here's something Hispanic. Let's. And she thought it was the documentary. Yeah. Like no, like people straight up, yet people, she was also the one who was like wanted wanted a shirt from channel channel. Yeah. I love Sony. Now. I love that movie. I go on the record and remind everyone about how much I love it. You'll never let's be fashion ever on TV. It's always on TV. It's always on. I like the fast like you're gonna you're gonna get sad and Mike. No. I'll turn it off when she sings streaming of you. That's always what I do turn it off at this time. Also anyway, I like to talk about how fucked up it is that if I have a very I have a strange relationship with religion. But I always think of, like if it wasn't for religion, Selena would still be alive. That's how I think of it. But anyway, you know that, that. Yeah. Because her family was Jehovah's Witness transfusion. Yep. Yeah. But that wasn't in the movie wasn't. No. It wasn't conveniently. I heard that, that wasn't that she was she had already lost much blood with attention hospital, but I want to believe that's a lie to well, she walked around the hotel after she was shy her in and Janda walk around the hotel for a while trying to, like find help or something or trying to themselves hospital. Yeah. Shot her, and then was trying to fix it. Yes. Yes. You mmediately regretted shooting her, I would hope so. I would hope so. And that's what she said. She I mean she claims it was an accident, according to the book Selena secret by let's let us of primary. Oh my God. Oh, I've read every fucking book announcer. Yes. I. Yeah, but then she ended up she ended up running to the lobby. And that's what she liked fell, and that is even more fucked up. Oh, that's awful. Yeah. Yeah. We, it's really messed up. So your most recent episode with well at this point, it'll be the penultimate episode doing this love that saying. So on a recent episode you did with Lucy. Yes, there were she was talking about ninety two let there be loose. Yes. Yes, it is a very enlightening episode and very interesting. And I recommend that everybody was into it. But one of the things that, that I took away from it is the fact that our theme song, which is titled fat fish, and I've been thinking about this for a little while now but I sort of sort of bury it, and I'm a little bit in denial of it, because I have my own idea of it. But I get that there's my the way I view it, and there's the way the world use it. Yeah. So I wanted to talk about this with you because I want to get your perspective on. It is our theme song problematic. Yes. Okay. Let's talk about this. Yeah. I mean on the episode, we, we talk a lot well loose, Linda Garcia lose warrior as she's known online has a podcast. And it's about menstruation and the cycles of the moon and how that relates and she's, she's a very spiritual person. And you know it's funny because I used to roller is at that when we first started the podcast now like we're all into that shit. It's and it's about spirituality. Yeah. I mean I mean bubbly like where's a crystal now like he's those people. Yeah. It's great. I mean my gosh, we're so we're so like, yeah, we've grown a lot. So anyways, we started talking about how misogynist like gay men him be. And like how disgusted they are by John us, even saying the word vagina grosses some dudes out, right? I don't understand that. So I was getting. I got really angry on the podcast about it on that episode and just started calling people out, and then I said, I guess what made me all of you mother fuckers calling the giants fish or, or drag queens, that looked like passable women. Like, first of all, that term that then, that also makes that term, like weird transphobic, and then also just equating, the smell of fish to of Jonah. Right. There's, there's a problem there, we need to like wake up, we need took knowledge that, you know what I mean? And that was actually pointed out to me years ago when my friends and I were watching Rupa's drag race and they called somebody a fishy Queen. Right. And my friends like fishy like like fish and then, like she put it together, and she's like that's really offensive and I had to hear that from a woman because I thought it was funny before, too, you know, like two and on a platter. Oh, she's giving you several types of fish, rainbow world. Where where is this coming, right? Yeah. Or is this coming from? And I mean it's not the first time Rupe draggers has been problematic. But. North alas alas northern, but yeah, I don't use that. I mean, I don't use that term anymore and I don't know. I find it. I do I find it pretty offensive, you know. And I know it's your theme song. And I know people listening now are saying, like you're overreacting. We can't say anything anymore, everybody polices, right? You know, I just hear lady bunny, like, like say. We'll because they I mean lady bunny, Jackie be I've heard them have very honest conversations on podcast. Because right they, you know, we can't say I mean it's offensive to say she male, you know, like on its offensive to say tranny right, like, right? We shouldn't say those words, unless you're a transportation with your friends, and, you know, there's very specific words that you can say, around certain people. Right. And so I think fish is one of those words now. Right. And like, and it's just it's this thing this like awareness. Like, if, if, especially with our podcast, if we're going to claim to be this, like, very I hate to use the term but like woke hot cast. I hate that turn. I prefer aware. I wouldn't I use the term I, I wouldn't use the term woke in that context. Yes, it's not genuine to the way, I speak, I would say wear. Call it aware. I feel because it's very definitive like your woke. And then, like, there's nothing left not, like I feel like we're all we need to keep learning because, like, once you yourself as a what person like that can also be problematic. Sometimes, you know, because then, you're like claiming to be almost like an expert or something, and people that are experts stuff, actually, never learned anything new because they think that didn't call themselves. Well, yeah, because they know that there's like I mean I, I think it's like I mean, this is totally topic. But it's like words like that. Like woke or woke I it's like it's, it's. It's like it's like a turn to me, that's been developed to like it's like fashionable now it's trendy because because and I get why it's useful and it because it is it's tapping into. Like, you know, something, like I it's, it's making being socially aware of things like the usage of the word fish, or the N word or any, you know, shadow to Eureka. Right. Right. Like woke woke is in just not using those things. Yeah. Woke or being aware is also understanding why it's not not just that it's not correct why. It's not acceptable. Right. And so, I think woke in and of itself is problematic, because it's like, I'm woke. Right. So you say that. And so am I wou who that person is an enlightened being, and they know everything and they make no mistakes? We all make mistakes like no matter color creed language, like everybody's slips up and says something that they don't have access to. Yeah. I mean, again, you know that's not necessarily like you know, everybody's bad, but I just don't like the term woke. I think it's, it's, it's far too trendy to have any type of Jovi. And I just think like saying that you're aware and or sensitive to the struggles of others is a much more. It's much. It's a much more informed way of saying that you've done your homework. I think we're moving away. Nobody's trooping. I understand what he's talking about saying that fish. Yeah. It is. It is. Something that, like I don't like it. When dry queens, equate fish with pussy on sage or make you know, a pussy tuna joke. Right. It's like I don't like either tired comedy. Like if you're it's like are we on a cruise ship? So nineteen ninety. So my case for fat fish is that it's not based on. It's not based on that notion. It's based on the idea of an actual a mermaid, that's where it comes from. And so, but like I said earlier, I understand that there's a connotation to the word fish all on its own in the context of this podcast. Right. And so it also fat morale. Catchy. Well, no, I'm not gonna I wouldn't do that. It has to be something else. Now, like, but yeah, I just I don't wanna be the thing about it is the thing about being aware that once you're where you have to actually do something about it like you have to do something with that information and understanding that I am contributing to misogyny that gay men sometimes exhibit. It's something that I have to do something with information. It's basically the point of station. So we'll just like us like we're Latinos who lunch and everybody's using the Latin x so some people call this out like that. We're excluding people with the name Latinos lunch. But then we have to explain like, no, that's in reference to us. Right. Both identify as male, Latinos, right? That's your own personal identity, and that should be respected. Yeah. And I do identify as Latin next. Right. So. Yeah. I think it's the same idea like now you're aware of it. Yeah. I mean it also you're also referencing food, which I love and I understand like I li- I like the I like your your your intro song. But yeah, I don't know. It is. It is. I mean you ask me is it probably? Yeah. It is. It is. And that's what I mean. Even rupaul had to change shemale. Right. He says now, which is which is kind of offensive. But right if you think of the root of that one, do you know about that? No, I don't know where she'd already done had hers. I, I. Half of the repulsed says sometimes I like I know where they came from and then the other half, I'm just like if I remember correctly, she was like at some restaurant or some fast food play when she was younger and this woman who probably from different social economic background. I'll say like didn't get her food and or she said that she's like she done already had hers as and, you know, like when rupaul code switches from like onto, like star bootie ghetto Rupe home, like, what are you doing there, girl, you know, but rupaul has been everywhere, and her experience is the I gotta stop talking. But anyways, you know what I mean? Like it's like this, like this, like, I'm just going to say this black, rupaul versus the white rupaul, right? What I mean it's like. We talked about that. I forget about that to get in trouble about that too, because we talk about how rupaul and I and I don't like the black white. Yeah. Whatever it'd be nice. I know that. That's how it's referred to in my. That's what it was. I know. But it's not about, but it's not about referring to her, her, her personality, her actions, reflecting a certain skin tone. It's literally rupaul is rupaul is projecting like to white people right now. And then she's also projecting to white people how they see black people. It's the same thing in. It's in both ways wearing different clothes. She's giving them the like the. She's making them comfortable. Yeah. And that's the that's the problem. But my thing is that I also look at it as her like the whole thing with rupaul is that she has reached a level where she is a tained, a level of privilege level, wage, many times, she's reached a stage in her career and her life. Yeah. College words. Where where she has attained the level of privilege that she would not have otherwise been granted. Yeah. Had she not entered this, do you like, like as, as, as was born and looks and is that privileges automats granted to him? But now he has a chief, that he doesn't wanna let that go, and then part of that privilege is not giving a fuck about what other people how other people I don't think I don't think that Republican give a fuck, I think repeal actively tries to convince people repelled gas lights, everybody else into convincing them that things like racism are not real, and that's really fucked up. What were you gonna say? Yeah. And that's what happens. This is what happens when black people or people of color, I should say, just like people with people of color are surrounded by white people that are all. Yes. Men like that. Don't check you? This is happening to west this is what this is what's happening to Rupa's. What happens? So we'll be Goldberg right? It's like they say really weird shit because they have a lot of white friends in high places and, and they're those people of color that say, not all white people are like that people that say things like I don't see color are the most problematic people out there to see color. We need to acknowledge it, we want racism to end right? Ignoring these things is not going to do anything. Right. And so, yes, Rupa has done a lot Rupa has been through a lot of ships is in her experience is very valid. And she's like pave the way but like y'all we're talking about with think with my new drag crush Jupiter velvet is that she is now a gatekeeper, and that's not what drag was about. There are no gates there. There shouldn't be any there. Yeah. Yeah. And, and so now rupaul has has that power and, and. And maybe isn't using to use it responsibly like her voice responsibly. You know, like I don't know. I don't know. So tired of great power comes great responsibility, with great power comes great electric Bill. What a great not. Oh my God. Thank you so much for being on our podcast. This is so much fun. I'm so happy that we finally got big shout out to Richard vigas song, because he's been waiting. Where where in the world is Richard? He's living his best life in Mexico City has there like for a hot minute now. Like he's just he's gonna be going to South America next. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Please let our listeners know where they can follow you on social media, and where they can listen to your show. Yeah. Sure, you can follow me at. Fob. Fav. FA. V. Y F, A V on Instagram Twitter, all social media platforms and my podcast Latinos, who lunch on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, my website, once my art is Justin, Favila dot com and actually this is an exclusive for Barron. I'm starting another podcast called the art people podcast that is going to debut in November. And so our people podcast Google look. I love it. Well, we are leaky on everything that means Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram follow us there, please. And you can send your questions to grizzly KiKi dot com. And maybe we'll read years on the air and don't forget to subscribe to so until next time.