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A VerySpatial Podcast - Episode 635


You're listening to episode six hundred thirty five a very special podcast February ninth twenty twenty. That was my first twenty twenty. I now has invited. Hello Spatial podcast. I'm Jesse I'm sue and this is frank and this week we're GONNA be talking about Geo tagging something we we haven't really talked about in a while and something. That's kind of in the background a lot of times. But I think it's going to be turned out to be an interesting conversation. We're GONNA WE'RE TAG it. We're GONNA tag attacks in in our topic in the middle but I of course some news so I up in the news Some news news from Google which dovetails into our news right because we share same birth year as Google maps so google maps as Google maps. Right so so fifteen years anniversary is coming up for Google maps so other freshening it up and I think they've already started rolling out Some of them the features this week so on the Fifteenth Anniversary Yes via the IRS. Because I've got the new icon which totally threw there. You go up yet because I I rarely Unless the Carson where you use the Google maps on my phone with someone pulls up and it a class or something so anyway. I haven't looked at it yet on my phone own my android phone but anyway It's kind of again just reminder. Oh my goodness so. The year Google maps started and very special. PODCAST started right kids born that year now just about old enough to date. Oh my God. Where does the time go about old enough to date? Yeah very all right. Sorry for come from Small Little House on the Prairie Times officially right officially Atlanta. We can debate that back and forth. What that ages but fifteen eighteen year still in many states? They can get their learner's permit. How about that can get your Lurs fit to drive permit to drive? It's kind of Yelp like in my mind that does that did you look at it frank. What the yeah I mean? It's it's walk eight so I was up in the bridgeport PA area yesterday. And I was driving on an area area that I know so I was in my car and went to turn on Google maps and I had saw the news that it was updated but it might pay attention when it was doing that and I have all my apps that took this auto update because I got tired of doing it every twenty minutes of an update so map so it updated and I am sitting in traffic trying to figure out how to start Google maps and I couldn't didn't 'cause I'm like where's the Congo that's all I've got it and then switched the icon on me and that's thirty off and then ended up to pull over because I couldn't get serious. It tight talk the address properly. I had to type it in and it's it's different. It's you're right it's very yelp like and I had used a Yo to get to the first place always had gone to so I was really thrown off because I was like wait a minute. I'm not using yelp just trying to get back to the highway and I it. There are a a lot of overlaps in this style. Chosen and it's understandable. I think because there's so much that they put in there in terms of restaurants and gas stations things that are in Yelp nope yes and that's all right is to guide you to this these things but I haven't tried it out yet but the the video factory were just looking at one of the live you to the augmented reality. Pretty thingy looks pretty cool so these are things that are coming in the near future to all the again to this refresh for the fifteenth year. I'm really looking forward to that. One it it takes me back to the the early days of of attempts at a are on the mobile phones but I still remember the fun one from was at Nokia City Lens. Nobody remember that for me but I was like I really liked that one. But anyhow Lots of lots of stuff coming from Google for Google maps. Some stuff already out so watch for that this year On your mobile devices as you're navigating around my will say that my favorite of the new features quote unquote new. Because it's not new. You could actually get to your saved. Locations one click. Now you don't have to go to like two or three things since you know we've been planning for another Japan trip and we've been adding more places to the saved lists for Japan. I don't have to go through two or three steps to get there once. We're we're in Japan to find these places so that was by far my most annoying thing about Google maps e on the desktop and on the phone was so we have been sort of exploring these little bookshops or AH record stores or music stores in the Pittsburgh area. There's little ones that you don't necessarily know about. And I google them and add them to whole save locations. I've got like thirty locations I want us to visit. And you know every once in a while we'll go pittsburgh do a side trip to visit one or two of these places but getting that information every time because I don't do it all the time I had to relearn. Where was this? Click here wait. No there shouldn't be here now. Okay wait and it was driving me crazy I hate I hated that. I'm so glad it's easier. Get the way it worked. You know it made sense if it's something that was going to be near you because it being the same frame in Google maps is where you are but if you were driving having from say morgantown to Pittsburgh and he wanted to get directions. You'd have to either pan all the way up to Pittsburgh nowhere you're looking for which of course it's on maps saved. You don't know what you're looking for or you have to go through the three steps three or four steps to get to the saved and pull it out. It was yeah. It was a real pain so this this is so much better. That's it's but you're right there little tweaks right so and I think that says a lot about the enduring power of Google maps. The fact that they didn't have to do massive amounts of change wjr to go. We need to do this all over again. Apple the just had to tweak it which is cool actually I guess before we go onto the next one officially in the two shutouts Since the last time we talked just around last time we talked Apple did roll out out the last of their updates to apple maps and apple maps data. So they also did a much more comprehensive update tape to get apple maps. Yeah I saw that news but they needed to do updates. So since you mentioned apple maps I had completely really forgotten about it until you said that but that was a couple of weeks ago. That happened I kind of feel like that's just a metaphor for all of apple maps. I forgot about two. You mentioned they actually use it so whenever I'm using Siri I'm like. Hey Siri show me where until I use apple maps through that well I use it apple maps to because it's built into the OS. There's no way to avoid it a lot. You Know Cook something. I'll just launch an apple maps. Sometimes if you just want to figure out how far it is to whatever that's fine you know. Sure I'M NOT GONNA fight with it but it's GonNa get Google Matt registered in working for everything but I I still apple maps has done okay Another one for so yes so scrolling through my space news and there's been a lot of Ram Space News not all of it strictly geospatial in this. Maybe maybe not but One Web is a company that's been partnering with A couple of different entities to actually launch a small sets for broadband a so huge constellation. And I forget how many it's like. Ridiculous number missions may be twenty twenty one total that are going to do this but They've actually launched their first large batch. So I guess towards the end of last year her They launched a small six and now their first large batches gone up on an area and five are sorry space. I forget which number does now from mm The Bike Anouar cosmodrome in Kazakhstan. So you've got a Soyuz rocket a rage coordinated by Aryan space. which as a French company European company launching from Kazakhstan and carrying I forget how many but it's like Where's IT thirty four because those couple dozen but yeah that's actually more than two dozen so thirty four small satellites again and this is just one more step been what is I think it'd be something like five hundred. Some satellites in the Constellation And it's like this is kind of again a new way of looking at this yes In terms of blanketing you know the orbit around the earth with these Small sets for broadband and stuff. So I thought it was pretty cool. I'd I remember reading about it when the first I Test launch went up and stuff so I thought it was kind of cool to mention that there now taking the next stage And they're gonNA. I think do one more in March take a break for a little bit and then continue launching so twenty. Twenty is already shaping up to be a busy year for launching various things I think Japan just law launched an Optical Cola reconnaissance satellite all kinds of stuff going on so but the one web thing Says to me kind of. Here's here's another one of those steps in the small set Kind of Idea so what are we going to actually use them for. I thought five hundred eighty I mean like considering with sixty spares sixty spares me and it's just like if this is if we're moving towards small sets. I mean we've really have to think about all kinds of more things now about Orbital heights and speeds and talking them into little their little niches or whatever because I mean that's just a lot anyway So my final space news for this week This is actually the Scheduled tap so record in the podcast on Sunday February night and The solar orbiter which again is another partner between NASA European Space Agency. I think Airbus actually built the satellite But the solar orbiter is getting ready to launch tonight hopefully it's on the pad In Florida and and it's ready to go they had to Scrub launch from the end of the week like Thursday because of weather and a couple of things and so this is really interesting because It's actually going to Studied some parts of the Sun. Something that we don't know a lot about so the polls and I think it's going to get the first Hopefully pictures of the polls also of the Sun. So that's kind of interesting and then look at some gravitational stuff and Make some measurements to better understand the effect of the sun on space weather So kind of cool Hopefully hopefully the next time we talk right it will of launched and be on his way to the Sun But currently right now I'm I was actually she just a few minutes go looking at live Nasty TV and and stuff and so seems to be on track for tonight's launch but get pretty cool mission Showing that partnership again and one that will hopefully get information that we'd never really been able to accurately gather about what the sun is actually like Next News as his released. RGI's pro two point five which is Kinda cool. There's a lot of neat things in there. I can check the what's new section of Lincoln the show notes but there's a few little things I wanted to point out and there's a ton of stuff in there but the one thing that's a big deal if your administrator is the licensing now for single use and concurrent can now be done in the cloud which is a little less annoying. It was always really annoying while you're gonNA and he's a while I'm going to log on the largest online okay. I got to do it with a single use to artists online. or I need to do it for my entire lab. Okay when you'RE GONNA have to run a licensed manager and for those of us on a campus where you've got a little person here two or three people there. It's a lot easier now. I think Using our Chaz pro two point five arc map A. You're still going to have headaches but that's kind of cool Also if you're doing anything in three d they released a whole bunch of really cool new styles new Point symbols in line symbols for in three. which is Kinda empty particularly doing anything recreational or anything like that so? I thought those are two things that popped out at me that we really need. There's a ton of other great stuff in there There's they're making a big deal about notebooks and I haven't messed when notebooks book so if you're doing python if you're doing development in that area and of course not just development but Project based Well you know being able to pull down existing Japan notebooks. I can pull into your project and and utilize them. It's kind of the way that a lot of scientific extension to software's going Especially for Python so chipper. Notebook is is something that everybody's kind of pushing hard but especially with with Two point four and definitely two point five a lot more. Yeah so I guess that's stronger integrated If you're doing that sort of thing and and then there's Ju- database replication workflows. which can be really helpful? If you're in particular for backup and redundancy and that sort of thing at the database the base level so there's a lot of cool stuff into point five as a point release. You would expect a lot of little things that are added up to a pretty good released. Yeah I mean with the with arc. Jazz pro point release basically as a full version release compared to some a lot of things I I I did. Find it funny the that highlighted the projections. They've added like Adams Square to which I didn't know existed but You know I don't know seven thousand for production so oh it's but we added these to projections like Cool S. It's just kind of like and then when you look at the two. I'm looking at the Mat. The example they give. I go okay but I don't know where I would use that right every little bit. That gives us an option. That's that it doesn't keep people embedded in web mercator which is of course where almost everything started with with. Archie is pro everything that gets us away from wimmer caters. Just yes yes I love it more more. A little more cartography And that's one thing I haven't actually Updated two point five since we're using two point four still on campus. So I'm kind of curious to see what other cartographic things if it's because one of the biggest problems with his cartographic in pro is just the fact that it bogs you down. I mean it is probably one of the most resource-intensive things based on how so it is and of course as soon as you turn off one of the Soon as you turn off your your online layers things pop up just like an arc map but It's just it's it's awful yet is the reason why I still use both arc map and pro in classes because pro is awesome for everything until it's time to make the map. He's you terrible feedback to you. Like like you click on something did did it registered the click. Did it is. Is it doing something. Is it not doing something. Oh there's my stuff well this is. This is so slow when Siegel online layer on and yours like this was built built for on line. Still an and it's really annoying that it it seems to be equally terrible with with argest online as it is with your run services and it's really weird to me because like you said it's built for RGS online so you think it would work great with that but but if it's not local data is gonNA crawl. Yeah and and and on all times now because I have the clearinghouse right there and I can just grab it over the network. If I'm doing stuff in West Virginia where I can. I don't bother with their services. I just grabbed the local data. You have more Cartographic flexibility to which is nice. But it's sometimes easier quicker because otherwise like you said you're like click jazz pros students right. Who have zero patients? They just keep clicking stock licking God click like Whoa. WHOA WHOA? I don't Arc's credit. I've only seen it whatever whenever I had a student do that. One time. Go Out and crash fairmont but that part of it too is The time of day. When I teach digital cartography in use it is a busy Sunday on campus or our pipe is already maxed out kind of sometimes so to be fair Some of it is that So I do see it more often open but it's just like you just WanNa physically take their hands or put them on the desk and just stop it. You're cooking yes. Fifteen seconds is not a long time to wait nor is thirty to to be perfectly honest. Anyway we digress and kind of just as a little little add on for Azra a user's If you're heading to the AG annual meetings so the American Association of Geographers Don't forget that they have the twenty Johny Twenty version of the innovative applications of GPS. or of as Reggie is technology poster competition which will be cash? Prizes in four categories And they've extended the deadline to March tenth. So I don't I don't remember if we actually mentioned it before when they they first announced it but if we did not mention it now and you have until March tenth of course you have it to be registered in attending the conference But you can Submit a printed poster or a story map or other digital format and Follow the Lincoln the show notes of before the categories. And all the things you have to do. And they're especially encouraging students to submit so just a little ad on there if he didn't already know I really like about this got covered a large range of what you might do. So the first one is best `application of Jesus to solve understand so so just not even going a map you know. They're going to talk about the application. I wanted another one's best. Use spatial analysis the cartographic maps out of things. The third thing they mentioned so I think that's kind of cool. They're like yeah. There's a breadth of this demonstrate the breadth and it is focused on the SDG the sustainable development goals from the United Nations. So they do want you to look at a few things that I think are probably going to become our topic. Pick for next time in. It's not like we don't talk about this often anyway But there are about five or six different things that came out in the last two weeks about privacy issues so DHS Skirting Supreme Court order by using purchase location data facebook by I start up using a vision to find your location. I can't find the other ones right now. But these I think FCC finds ends one or more carriers broke law by selling consumer location data. So there's been a lot of Location data privacy issues In the news recently so instead of putting them this week's news release contradictory. I'm sure right. I'm not sure how they are contradictory. Either way they're they're getting data without getting the data. But you know the the carriers can't sell it so interesting so it wasn't maybe it wasn't cell carrier data out had to read the article. Yeah so that that's something that is not next time it'll be sometime in the near future. there's just kind of a wealth of these and those were just the three that I could quickly find. And that's it for the news. This week's main topic is one that came up because of Well one we haven't really talked about Geo tagging and a really long time because it's it's just kind of there it's kind of like talking about buffers yea I mean it just happens and so let's start art by asking the question of what is a Geo tag in our minds fifteen twenty thousand years later To me it just literally. What it says is is that you tag a thing or person with his location instead simple okay? What do you think that? Where's are are we tagging in? Where do we generate? Joe Geo Tags. While they're interrelated apparently cellphone did data mandata Is it always Meta data. I mean a lot of. It's you know data that we add intentionally so sometimes it's part of the information itself so one of we're talking about strapping we don't always just go to the mandate of scrape location information. We also just go into the content. Two streep data. So whenever you're saying it goes into the Meta data what type of data then has this in this Meta data. Well it's thinking of photos and things like that so Conscious Geo tagging Where you tag a your location onto things and you do the Hashtag or whatever type of data format you're putting it in but but I was more thinking in my mind inch of photos? Let's just did is. It happens in so many different ways and Serrano replaces That there's different different conversations. We could have about what even you know. Geo tagging means to individual Industry let alone our own home. I literally just had to explain some portion of this in a in a class related to collecting a multimedia data for project and We were trying to map historical cultural features and I said well You set your photography team out to photograph it will just use the The Geo Tags and and there was much looking at me with with Not befuddled but curious is like what do you mean already on the camera to miss it. Yeah just like your phone does anyway. Well not not all cameras have so these were these were door cameras and and They in fact that but anyway and I said so because they ask you well how will we know where the thing where they were taken like. This is how you'll know so anyway. So then whatever we're talking about Geo tagging we are talking about This combination of as has been mentioned weird adding tags software or APPS that we're using are pulling our location hopefully with our approval and using it At at this point. Half the time that you go to page asking. Hey can this webpage. Use Your location So you know there's all different ways that you're providing location information to Businesses to other people to you know data in general. So what are some of the reasons. We might want Geo tags. So you're just giving an example for instance from your project why why did we want to have gop tax for that because we were going to be recreating features in an environment where the low their locations were actually going to be part of the environment so in fact we needed to situate them. Well I think that broadly speaking you can say that that spaces integral to memory right so you your in your member. Something often times within the space that it happens usually within the space that happens so having the ability to go back there in your mind is very useful and we've been Geo tagging things through memories since humans were born but now we have technical means situated in in communicate to other people so you may want to go look. This is the picture we took off the New River Gorge Bridge and you have Geo tags so that you can share it with people and then they understand where the context of the newer Gordon Bridge exists so then here in both of these examples were were using Geo tags two then re present the data so we've captured it we've had as cheer tag now we're using GEO tagged into to share the location once again with others and whenever we do that it provides us with a chance to you know educate create broader conversations People who might be looking at that might Might not have looked at your feet. But if if they were looking at The location in a field like twitter or instagram or some other APP They might have seen your your posts because they were interested. Did things that happened near. The New River Gorge as an example as an example. So yeah I mean it gives us a lot of different things that we can due to capture these tags and of course began to utilize them in lots of different ways again. One of the big ones is sharing our experience variance. And that's kind of where most of the time we talk about nowadays whether where You know uploading picture facebook for our grandkids. The kids I guess is that WHO's using facebook grandkids to see Others of US using instagram. or which is also I still. It's a different. I'm not talking about in terms of companies The flicker anything where we want people to who seal location where we can share that. So we're beginning to share experiences build experiences within this the professional community. Of course we use these a lot of times with our story maps whether we're using as we tools or story maps or something else you know having vs Geo tags in their allow us to build out information in a way. That's a little bit different than what we could do before You know whenever never we were looking at building image based projects back around two thousand we had to go through and we had to figure out. Okay well we're taking this picture of this location and so we're going to go in. We're GONNA create a point and they were going to attach the picture to a point now. Of course we flip that paradigm had. I'm where we're building the points by just tossing our whole camera roll into Whatever software were using and letting it build a shape file from those Geo Tags so you know on the professional level it provides even more capability? And it's not just professional from geography because of course you have wedding photographers and travel videographers and others. Who are using this to make their their photo books? Or whatever they're calling them nowadays But the output four their product. Yeah their product for their For their client which has that spatial integration? That frank was talking about about it being important before and you know I think I think. Interestingly that's both an opportunity but also brings up kind of the significance issue right because now that it that we have many many devices many data collection collection devices that can automatically give this generally done coordinates. It's interesting How to translate that back from from space right spreading it out on the space to place ace because it's not? It's not always obvious what places are involved in fact Something I learned a long long after the fact maybe like a year ago Is that When you bring at least in the way I think it's the windows environment when you bring a location tagged Photos and things in you can edit the Meta data on the computer itself so you can add more meaningful a location Because that's one of the the interesting questions about having it already collected for you so I think that's a good example. You talked about Jesse back we would. Would I try to bring images into a GS eight right. We were manually or consciously saying this is the location whether we did it with co-ordinates Nitsa redid it with An attribute or something But now that the coordinates which is usually the method by which Phone cameras and other things actually record. That doesn't necessarily translate to meaningful place for everybody like in terms of how it's labeled so the coordinates you can look at them and if you're you're good at it right you know. Generally speaking we're that is I've seen people who are really good at it just from glanced. But that's different than saying this is so I- tag something with you know. Thirty whatever ever in minus seventy nine whatever. So that's a general east coast largely longitude right but if I say Washington. DC right outside you know. I don't know the Washington monument rate. That's that's a different way of expressing what is already there and collected for me so I could bring it on the map But it's interesting that without doing that right. If I'm just looking at that list maybe I have. I have more precise accurate data about location in space. But but I still maybe have to do some work on the playside and using it so using geo tagging for more meaningful looking at my data. Well you know I mean when you're talking about Meta data when it comes to photos we're talking about exit information which have been around forever. I can't since the eighties eighties The the that Meta data stuff ladies and all of that is technical machine based information right so you can find out a lot of detail on their about everything to do with that photo you can find out folk links and the F. Stops and the you know the light light exposure pretty much in the UN. Imagine about photo you can find in that exit information But you gotta it's highly technical. You have to know the implications that so it's you know this is the f stop or does that mean okay. If you don't know that information then it's not it's just gobbly Gook really you can go find it. It's not terribly really difficult but it does have a utility expert is systems that toward location The definition location is yes. It's highly technical but the expectation is that you're going to go find it out if you don't know it off the top of your head which is not unusual but there is a need now for Human Meta data? which is the place stuff you're talking about right? What's that mean that particular camera? I'm using this Lynch. What does what does that mean? What's the implication of that stuff? That's a little more interesting. And this is where the sharing of the experience comes in because you're capturing that that X. Y. and the exit and that's attached La Times to the APPS that you're uploading your picture too but you're also often times saying what that picture meant to you y. You're sharing that picture through the APP as well. So you're getting this combination of the coordinates that we want for being able to map UPI easily bureau so getting a lot of the qualitative information that provides this place or play Chal since we can use that that were now. That's not a company more. This is play. She'll still accompany less now. But a term or playful description so that you know you can provide that qualitative aspect that does keep that connection. It's contextualisation that gives it meaning really the absent the conceptualization in theory. You can in theory you. Can you can work from the technical data and get some conceptualization. But you can't really because you don't understand the position. -ality we're getting really deep into the metaphysical stuff here but I understand the position of the person who captured should the information to start. What were gold or purpose and intent? What is the meaning behind it? You were going to impose your own. Even you could say the Washington Monument and I can say oh. Yeah that time time. When I was fourteen I lost my retainer? Whatever but that's all you and your stuff ebb? Nothing to do with the person captured image. What they're thinking and what they're trying communicate or or show? I wasn't paying enough attention. I was looking at playful. I understand I. I run real into metaphysical position. -ality in phenomenology almost and things like at the edge of phenomenology. And it's it's so you're you're basically saying that the person who's sharing that information may not be the person who is in the picture or consuming the information and therefore they have their own stories raise to go along with it so the experience of the person who took it is not the same as the person who is in it or viewing it right. There are three different experiences. You know even if they're all there at the same time in the same event there's still three different experiences because you're connecting your past experience and extrapolating eating and adding that to that experience. Well if we talk about bracketing with an Opera Aria nevermind easy that want to And and yeah I mean that's that's an important thing that we all have This ability to bring new stories and anytime any time we talk about a map In the past you know we've well maybe we haven't talked too much about the fact that it is a reader's document. Yeah Yeah we create the map all day long but we have no control on about how people interpret that and it's true with with these shared experiences as well. Yeah I think. I don't think we actually have ever really talked about that. So be another topic because it's a huge thing but I think we've talked around it a lot though so man. I think we have ticketed the center of that point which which is a and I learned this actually interested enough in In Twelfth Grade English I had a really great English teacher and he said those aren't your words and I. I said we'd be them. They're my words pretty crazy. There's no they're not your words your your words and whoever reads those words you you once you get done writing them. You're you're done. You have nothing to say about this. What people bring when they read those words? You've got no control over and you got nothing to say about it. So that was a bit of a harsh lesson and for a seventeen year old to learn that. Because you think you're articulating about yourself. But in reality is is that people are going to read. And then they're going to bring themselves and they're gonNA heartache. Ah articulate a little bit about themselves in the consumption of your words that's GonNa be true of a map as much as it is a story or an essay or anything like that. So we'll say that that larger. Yeah to bigger budge bigger. Poppy for later so One while playful. The company doesn't exist play show as has a term and Amazon analysis lab and as a conference Do still exist. It is now is now a smattering of of references. Insist too I feel. I can use the term place in an appropriate context. There is littered all over my dissertation. So you're using turnpike. Shell a lot an awful lot. 'cause I talk of my dissertation talking about almost getting a play show information system. Almost so it's it's it's important that we create these tags. I think in many ways but a controversy that I only found found out about In the last couple of months because of watching tons of youtube videos about traveling and stuff like that is the issue with Geo tagging and its impact on popularizing locations and that potentially leading to impacts impacts in those locations everything from tourism to environmental issues because of the number of people that are coming through and things being left behind. So I think my the the whole thing I wanted to get to hear was that question is what do you guys think about the potential for Geo tagging and like any tool it is value neutral. But is it's increasing us through twitter through facebook through instagram through WHATSAPP through whatever Is that potentially having a negative consequences in areas. What's that question? Yeah we'll start there. I think it's I'll tell you this. There's certain areas that are just just popular. Stonehenge has just popular. It's always been popular. It's been popular forever. People go see Stonehenge The fact that we suddenly have technology so that I uh-huh curiously see ten thousand New People that I've never known in my entire life nor ever will know visiting stonehenge probably doesn't impact that much Just because because of its inherent popularity the Eiffel Tower. That you know we're getting thousands of places around the earth that are just popular but I do think it may have an impact on places is that are lesser known. Just not as cool inherently you would know about thus making slightly cooler but That suddenly things that weren't popular can become popular and in some ways. That's a good thing because it gets more attention but in other ways it does have negative of packs because it gets more tension. I have quite and probably going to be unpopular but quite mixed opinions on this as someone who grew up in a in an area that became a popular for tourism and created quite the huge Problem with that But but this is always that question I A- and and it's not necessarily new one but with the Internet and sharing and the culture right of watching other people experienced things and those people are trying to get you to think think that it's the greatest thing ever right and it's naive to think that people won't Look at look at right. This is the question of what the audience does with yourself right and and not wished they can experience it themselves because then on the one hand you're saying well I got to do this cool thing and you shouldn't right but I want but I'm sharing it with you because I want you to to watch my channel or or see that I I did that right. So it's a broader. I think strange question and and this goes into all questions about tourism and going to other places places and and they're they're being raised all over and it's not just geo tagging so so that is the question about I don't really know I mean I. On a practical level the impact I think is Obvious potentially if in fact you were the you know because again trying to find some of these places are places that you would have to have some sort of hard to get that right. So the GEO tagging provides that guide. Even if there's not a map or something it says hey okay here. This is marked on the trail The question of you actually saying I'm not going to tell you where this is. But I'M GONNA I'm GonNa experiencing something cool and continue to tell you how cool it is And then say well don't you know. Don't come here. Selfish dislike asking people do it but but it's but an interesting Thing that I sometimes mull over. You're in my mind about various places and and on the one hand I mean you see it with the debate over over places like Venice and and all these you know areas where our people have long said. This is an amazing place. It's a once in a lifetime right. This is the seat of the all kinds of things and then not expect people who have the means to act on it and want to have that experience as well. I mean a strange. It's the strange Juxtaposition I want you to places awesome and someplace that that should be on your your list of great experiences. But how can you then know that if you don't go and experience it so I think it's again tagging part of it. Then yeah having a negative impact in these locations right but in that case right it's locations. It's not easy to find right so the geotech becomes an integral part of you actually being able to you as a person who who see someone else do it being able to actually recreate it right so that then in a sense it's taking making An important role in getting people there and yes. Many these places are not meant for this sort of thing So so the question is I suppose. Then what is the responsibility. So in that case right it's it's Geo Tagging as technology becomes part of another mechanism and the question is then. Is there some sort of ethical responsibility in how you share location in share your experiences of the world right. I don't know I don't know if I know the answer is I don't think there is an answer. Well Well No. That's the Nice you know. Nice thing about ethics. There's no and most cases that's a debatable question. So so in most cases yes but I have strong opinions on this whole other thing too is again 'cause ticket from a different tack because you came from an area that that is become very tourist and ahead negative consequences of that and I was thinking about the seventy six game that was launched last year and there was a lot of fanfare within West Virginia A lot of excitement about the notion that this could drive tourism that people could see the real places that were in the game and our Geo tagged and a proper sense. There's there is a little budding tourism industry. I it gives it more credence than it deserves. But there are a number of people out there on instagram and Youtube and what they may be that are going and showing a picture of their avatar visiting Morgantown or visiting you know whatever it may be and then showing them actually visiting that location And and I don't think I think there's next to nobody In West Virginia that would call this a bad thing because we it's an industry that we need to survive so it's the best thing ever until it isn't right so that's the crux of it. Rake and a lot of places. I think that that are out of the way that are shown via the images. And where you kind of you know reconstruct or maybe do detective work because a lot of times they don't actually mention where they are but you can't do it right are not are not accessible for everybody. I mean some of them are places where you gotta literally be like a World Class Rock climber or athlete to actually get to and they're not safe and You know there's all this other stuff that kind of cascades along with it And so but again the technology is already in there you know images phones whatever giving that exact location and you know so see. I mean it's But it's an interesting. I hadn't really thought about the GEO tagging end of all this until till Jesse suggested that part of it is the topic right but I had spent a lot of time over the years. You know thinking about the whole tourism Dilemma And you know it's It's it adds. It adds an element to though because of This sort of passive sharing of of location right is that is I. Guess saying I'm not. I'm not suggesting I'm not. I'm not telling you how to get there but I am Tony how to get there. That's it right in the technology telling you how to look this is the point Yuka workout. Where your star point is Google to the rest? Sit Right but you have to make the effort so I guess in a sense of conscious Intense kind of way. And it's probably I would say the vast majority of people doing that may not even have really thought about it. I mean they're intentionally posted pictures so they want to share their experience of you and for you to think it's awesome but again it's always that question. At what point does your responsibility as the one posting it. Transfer onto the the audience for what happens after I guess so to kind of begin wrapping this up. We have a a a quick example of an extension of this and the counterpoint to this The extension is that A few months ago The own district in Kyoto Certain portions of that would have banned photography in Japan. Okay coach Suppose Wisconsin Yeah so And and this is one is location based banning an to it's also banning Pictures of Geisha in their normal more everyday lives because people are apparently going nuts. And you know basically being rude so that's an extension of that that well I think it is in you know. Many of the another consequence red won't get off on this because we talk all day about but the consequence of of replicating those images the things they see people doing on you know whatever influence trump whatever it is is that I know I. I really dislike that word immensely but but I mean that's just sit right going to recreate it without any understanding of the cultural context in which it is happening And again it's it's a snapshot a moment out out of time and place if he will well it. It's interesting you mentioned Geisha specifically because that does transfer this a little bit differently now doesn't it because now we're not talking about place. He's in the spatial sense. We're also talking about and it's very difficult to disaggregated this within the literature and even just thinking about it is now. You're talking about personal privacy. Privacy so what right do you have to capture a location versus. What right do you have to capture the people at that location and I think that in the legal sense the properly is a little bit of difference? Put Reality is is that the United States laws already. Well identified that if you're in a public place in Hungary takes your picture then. You don't have the expectation of privacy because you're in a public place so they are tying a bit of that together. That's just to sort of show. How stuff gets very very complicated very quickly? Yeah because notions of public private all kinds of stuff. I mean you know a regular event right if you go to a this is a a Geeky kind of example but if you go to a a comic con of some type rate and you dress up. It's with the expectation. People are GonNa look at it right. Take your picture but random people doing stuff at the you know comedy. Well maybe don't want their pictures taken but you know it's like it's like an example like anyway it's A. I think the Kyoto yield is a really good example of reactions to this and it. It's it's it's not just here right. It's in all kinds of other places and Situations so the counterpoint example. Then is that you have the people that they're paid a lot of times to come to communities to come to locations to video to photograph AFTEU share Information about that location to try to bump tourism so on the other hand like frank assaying you you know there. There is strength in this for the local economy especially Even if it does potentially create cultural environmental issues right for a long time cities in Europe and stuff had each more generate. It's not even new. Problem had huge campaigns for tourism. Come here come there. And then people did and then they're like wait a minute no We didn't want we didn't we just wanted some of you right in the and some of you that we we like the best in how you behave like whatever they defined that as right and so it was not it was not as open invitation as as a and some of it just as simply practical that they didn't realize that no you can't handle this and and I would say that for many places around the world and that is a part of the inherent attention of tourism anyway but but yes. You're right now you have. This added element mint of fostering not just tourism at that great sites of cultural significance or things like that but also these out of the way small places that are intimate and so unique in that sense. That's right so you're playing off the uniqueness that this isn't something that everybody could have found but I found it And the GEOTECH weirdly really play a again. I'm just like thinking through this as we're talking right weirdly plays into that because it's unique and it seems like it would be something you'd Stumble on by accident but yet it's very very clearly marked. Want someone shares at via the technology. So there's a lot of dimensions here that we can talk about for literally literally hours because I wanted to comment on some stuff but I think that we add to wrap this up right right we have to kind of get a bit of a resolution for today and so so If you have any thoughts about this please let us know. I believe the next one is yours right so this is actually a really interesting example In today's cool stuff of sort of ethical question So this guy. It's been in the news. You may have seen this but if you haven't this guy figured out that He could hack was the term. I I had seen a google mavs into thinking. There was a traffic jam when there wasn't one so the way that A lot of these automated systems whether you're using ways or Google or whoever it may be detects whether there's a traffic jam or traffic issue is that they'll do it based on your cell phone data and so they know that you're driving down the highway. The speed limit's fifty miles an hour. You're going forty five fifty fifty five seventy whatever it may be. And everything's flowing fine you and the closest four dozen people ratchets and then suddenly those four dozen or whatever it is people. Stop going that that speed and they start going five ten priority and they go. Oh there's a traffic jam and then they color their map read. So you know on-going avoid that area. I'M GONNA go around or even it's Automated Algorithm Assay ought to get you there quickest. We're going to avoid this area so when this guy did this German artist He took a kids waggin agan and it through a bunch of cell phones in there and just started dragging the wagon down the road. Now Educate Imagine He's a bit older but I think Anybody no matter how you are. You'RE NOT GONNA go faster than traffic jams. Speed going down the road. So he's dragging this wagon with all these cell phones and and Google says. Hey there's all these cars that suddenly aren't moving like they were. They must be in fact a traffic jam and he's gotten the the line in this Bridge Bridge to color is red as a traffic jam. Effectively routed traffic in that area and that is simultaneously horrific and amazing for me. I think is really cool. ooh This guy thought to do this and I'm sure there's a I didn't get any of the details. I'm sure he started off with driving so that it would give the person that was moving fast and quickly moved to you know not driving so it looks like it's slow slow down immensely And it I obviously saw this and I thought isn't this like an emission. Impossible movie ear or something like that. They would have done something like this. It just seems like one of those weird things that you would see an action movie. That's kind of comical in Europe. That would never work. Well does so they got the link for more. The machine is not infallible now and it is good for the issues of ethical. You know if you want to slow down the traffic outside of your neighborhood. Is that a bad thing. If you want people to not drive in your neighborhood is that OK okay. Bring it all the way back to the GEO ethics questions from last fall onto the events corner as always we encourage you. Check out these. 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