Roger Stone Sentencing Fallout; Architecture And Federal Buildings
From NPR and WBZ. I'm young. I'm Jeremy Hobson. It's here and now China. Today reported more than two hundred forty new deaths from Kovic nineteen and who bay province where the corona virus breaks started. It has now spread to more than twenty countries and having worldwide impact. Spain cancelled the world's top mobile trade fair the World Mobile Conference scheduled for later this month because of fears about the virus joining us now is Howard. Jiang who's head of the BBC's China Service? He's following this from London. Howard first of all explain the big jump in numbers more than two hundred and forty new deaths in just one day yes I think overnight two things happened. One is the the highest in-command in the province of Bay. Which is the epicenter of this corona virus or now the Kobe? Nineteen Epidemic was replaced and At the same time I think the local government. Now change the Counting methods how they count confirmed cases and death whether it was death from this particular cause or something else. Da was the main reason for people to see all of a sudden the Spike. In all the monitoring charts. We'll explain what you mean by that. How is the way that they count the cases changing One expert we interviewed this morning explaining that for Longtime for the past few weeks. They've been counting anyone who's been to a hospital and tested and confirmed to have contracted or got infected with this virus to be a firm case and then if you died from that then that was affirmed death from Corona virus. Anyone else was not made it into the hospital because there are so many cases so many people falling ill many of them are many say the majority of them just could not make it into the hospital and the one Recovering patient told us the ordeal. She waited ten days before she was even allowed into one of those Patient rooms so was the reason. Why the number before? Many say was Artificially low and what about the news? Today of the change in leadership there has been a fear all along that The information that we are getting in the outside world from China may not be entirely accurate. D- Does the leadership change mean that we can be more trustful of the information. That's coming out of China about the virus to a certain degree but the current new leader shifted in two Hu Bei were also from the weather. What I what most people call the law and order faction so Their main mission. You can from their past experiences still there to make sure the population stays relatively order. And so that's a strong signal to make sure however much anger there is in the population and these people they they have the experience to keep it quiet The death toll in China is now above hundred with more than fifty thousand cases. Lacrosse China does. This appear to be out of control at this point. Or how do you see having looked at it and watched it over the last couple of weeks on depending on who you talk to? If you talk to experts outside China many say many of those people carrying the viruses cook the everywhere but at the same time within China There's always a school thought saying okay. We've rained off most of the main cities so They're saying eventually this will blow over. You know with that and people with a infection. Either you recover you die so that that's the type of Depending on who you talk to you do get different pictures. One more thing I want to ask you about because as we've been following a covert nineteen one of the stories that keeps popping up. Are these cruise ships that are filled with passengers and in many cases there might be a few cases and there are more cases but there are thousands of people who are quarantined. On these ships. There was one ship stranded at sea for two weeks and today we learned has finally been allowed to dock in Cambodia. What are you watching in terms of the cruise ships? That are out there. Yes up besides that ship. The luckier luckily finally got Docked we also have the Saga of that Princess Diamond of the shore of Japan near Yokohama. Bay and Last week we had the lucky ship near Hong Kong. Where finally the majority of people cleared? And we're allowed to leave so all these Things relate to how the delay in reporting cases really really affect and You know people's livelihood life or death issue essentially it's not even livelihood it's life or death and cruise ships is a perfect incubator for especially those people who were unfortunately Pain slightly lower prices staying in on the inside of the cruise ship without the Balkany alcs access. They have no chance of getting fresh air so they have more of a chance getting the stale air from within the ship that is Howard Jiang. Who is the head of the BBC's Chinese Service Howard thank you? Thank you well attorney. General William Bar has agreed to testify in front of the House Judiciary Committee next month to explain his intervention. In the case of President Trump's longtime associate roger stone stone was convicted of lying to Congress obstruction and witness tampering. In Special Counsel Robert Muller's Russia investigation. President Trump tweeted out that the sentence recommendation made by prosecutors. Seven to nine years was horrible and very unfair. Shortly after that Justice Department leadership intervene to seek a lower sentence in a press conference today speaker of the House. Nancy Pelosi characterize the entire affair. This way this is an abuse of power that the president is again trying to manipulate federal law enforcement to serve his political interest. Npr Justice correspondent. Ryan Lucas has been following all of this High Ryan. Other and to review the four prosecutors resigned from the Roger Stone case after the Justice Department. Intervene recommend that lower sentence. We can assume that this was a decision made at the highest level at the DOJ. How unusual is it? Four and attorney general to intervene like this. Well it's it's common in big cases for The US Attorney's Office There are tons of them across the country but for for a US attorney's office to communicate with main justice here in Washington DC. About a case decisions made on that case But it is very unusual. I'm told by a former prosecutors people who have a lot of experience with the criminal justice system DOJ and how it works. It's highly unusual for a senior Justice Department leadership to weigh in on a case and overrule the line. Prosecutors have handled a case when it comes to a sentencing recommendation. That is highly unusual. And that's partly why we have seen so much blowback to this. We'll justice department officials say they were not reacting to the president's initial tweet but then he tweeted out again congratulating. William Bar on intervening. So what do we know about the actual sequence of events? Will this all stems from the sentencing? Memos that the that the prosecutor submitted on Monday evening which is a regular part of the sentencing process stone is due to be sentenced next Thursday so prosecutors submitted their memo on Monday evening where they recommended a sentence of seven to nine years for stone then on Tuesday morning the president tweeted that he thought that this recommendation was horribly unfair. And that you know this this what he called. A miscarriage of justice can't be allowed to happen and then around midday on Tuesday Senior Justice Department official Said that the department was shocked by this recommendation. By the by the career line prosecutors And said that they would clarify the Justice Department's position so a few hours after that A supplemental sentencing memo was submitted to the court. In which the Justice Department essentially said that stone committed serious offenses. He should spend some time behind bars. But that They feel that the amount of time that he spends behind bars should be far less than the seventy nine years. It was originally recommended originally recommended And they left the ultimate decision. On how much time of course to the judge in the case so all of this time line despite the fact that the Justice Department has said That the decision to push back on this initial recommendation was made on Monday evening. The timeline of the president's tweets and how the Justice Department then intervened in. This case is certainly a fueled all of these questions about potential political interference. Why the Justice Department was weighing in like this and I have certainly heard from sources of mine former federal prosecutors people who Who Know the Justice System Concerns about how this may tarnish The integrity of the justice system and and potentially Raise questions about Even-handedness of the Justice Department itself will you mentioned the judge on twitter. The president attacked the judge. In the case Amy Berman Jackson. How unusual is that and you've been in the courtroom with her about her We have seen president trump. Go after judges in cases that he's been paying attention to So in the case of president trump. It's not unusual for him to target a judge in this way on twitter as far as As Judge Amy Berman Jackson. She is the judge who oversaw the case against Paul Manafort here in Washington DC That's president trump's former campaign manager against manafort's Deputy Rick Gates Against stone and then also against someone else in a case that kind of spun off of the Muller Investigation. That's Great Craig. And she has been very even-handed in court. I think a lot of people would would say She certainly gave Manafort and Gates Pardon me Manafort and stone time to kind of correct for what we're viewed as mistakes that they made during the course of the lead up to trial ultimately she ended up putting Manafort Remanded into custody because of witness tampering during the case In stone she eventually put a gag order on so she has when needed to be brought a strong hand to the case But she has shown a lot of patients in this When it came to Manafort sentence she manafort sentencing. She actually ended up giving basically a forty five minute speech as she spelled out exactly why she came down the way that she did on the final sense. Okay we're going to follow the story throughout today as we continue to get reaction as we said. House Speaker Nancy. Pelosi is called the incident and abuse of power of but Republicans are weighing in as well. We'll hear throughout the day. Npr Justice correspondent. Ryan Lucas. Thank you thank you. Some of the greatest artists in music have played behind. Npr music tiny desk. Could you be next? Entered the tiny does contest by submitting a video of you playing original song behind a desk. If you win you'll get to play a tiny desk concert learn more at NPR dot org slash tiny desk contest. I have been accused of acting out of partisan political motives. Those who say that. Do Not Know Me. I am an independent person and I am. No one's pawn that Christine Bossie four testifying before the Senate Judiciary Committee about her allegations of sexual assault. Against now Supreme Court Justice Brad Kavanagh back in September. Two thousand eighteen was the country witnessed those hearings. Many were inspired to action and are here now resident chef Kathy guns to was inspired to bake. She's just written a new book with Catherine Gulford titled Rage. Baking the transformative power of flour fury and women's voices and Kathy joins me now to talk about it. Hi Cathy great to talk to you. Jeremy thing and what was it about those hearings that made you want to bake with rage? Well it snuck up on me. I had NPR. On kind of obsessively. I was listening to the hearings and it didn't take long before I realized that nobody was really listening to her. I felt like this woman was so brave that she was risking her safety her family her career and yet I felt like they were just pretending to listen and after the first night of the hearings I went into my kitchen and I started to bake and it wasn't like a normal baking session. I would bake a pie a cake and cookies and I wasn't aware at the time of why I was doing what I was doing like. Why was I- baking and why was I- baking obsessively? I'm a good Baker. But my other cookbooks have all been primarily about savory food and in retrospect. I mean you know me. I'm not that woman that follows the rules and you know kind of a little outside of the envelope but baking was all about following rules and each night during those hearings as I felt more and more enraged. I found myself somewhat grounded by knowing if I measured my flower if I measured the Sugar. The results would be sweet oddly. It wasn't even that I wanted to eat it all. It was not rage. Eating which is a whole other thing was really about following Lee's rules and getting a result and so did baking stop the rage. No Hell No. It's not. This book is not about stopping rage. it helped me feel. I guess a sense of energy to go on the next day and kind of fight the good fight because it became really clear to me that women and men. We're going to have to really get serious about finding truth and voting and speaking their minds and it helped me redirect that way you know Kathy. There are going to be a lot of listeners to this show who here you all the time. Talk about food and think. We'll wait a minute. Kathy is the one part of here now. That's not political. And now here she is talking about how driven she is by the politics that she's seeing to bake. What do you say to those people? I'm really glad you brought that up because I feel like this is a book whose primary goal is to open conversation. This is not just a cookbook. There are essays. There are interviews. There's old photography and new photography and it's really a collective of over forty women's voices. Everyone from musician on a Franco to writers like Rebecca. Trae stor Cecile Richards. Who ran planned? Parenthood and the goal is not to inflame more anger. The goal is to try to create conversations and there is no better way to create conversation than to sit at a table with food and baking unlike savory food is truly about sharing. I mean if you make a sandwich it's for one but if you make a cake or a pie you have to cut it into many pieces and you share it with people. So you're baking for community and I think the goal of this book more than anything was to create a sense of community in these deeply polarizing times. Well I'm glad you mentioned Rebecca Trace Ter- because our producer Emiko has put together some of the dishes that are in this because of course as you say it's not just about the politics it's also about the baking that you are doing and Rebecca's recipe in here so good is a Zucchini almond bread. Correct Rebecca trae stir wrote good and mad and we have a small essay in the book but also she wrote and she's like sure I'll use the SA. But how about. I send you a recipe and we were completely thrilled. What I love about this recipe. Is that you ground up a cup of almonds and it gives Zucchini bread a really wonderful nutty flavor and texture. And you know it's one of these breads that takes like twenty twenty five minutes and then it bakes and you have this beautiful loaf of bread that you can toast. You can add eating right now. I will say it's got a nice kick to it right. Yeah lots of Nice cinnamon but It's those ground almonds. You do have an essay in this book from Charlotte Druckman. Who isn't so sure that she believes in the idea of rage. Baking why was it important to include that essay in this book? Well this is a great story Charlotte is a food writer that I really admire and I reached out to her and said. Would you be interested in writing an essay for this new book? We're putting together called rage baking and the prompt that I gave the writers was. What does rage mean to you? And what does the phrase rage baking main and Charlotte immediately wrote back? This very long email explaining why she didn't want to be in the book that reached baking really didn't make sense to her that she didn't bake out of rage that that's what writing was about for her and I read the email and immediately I knew that's our. Sa This is the journalist side of Kathy guns. Which is you always want to hear from all sides right Kathy and even in is your was important. She asks really great questions in that essay. What is reach baking mean? Will it really change anything? Will it change who we vote for? Will it change? Who ends up with money in their political party and these are really important questions to ask. Rage baking is not a solution for all the ills and the anxiety that we feel as a nation right now but it is away as I said to build community and to kind of it can becoming. I mean there's nothing like you spend twenty minutes at your kitchenaid and you put together a beautiful cake. You put it in the oven and then for an hour you wait. So you have this lesson in patience and that's why we wanted to include essays. We imagined as the cakes were baking. You would sit down and read some of these essays from these women and feel inspired. This is another really important part of this book when I started it listening to the Cavin hearings I started from a place of sadness and rage and by the time we were done and I had heard from these women from all over the country from all walks of life. I really felt a sense of hope. You know it's good that you brought up the idea of waiting for something to be done in the oven because maybe that prepares you to wait for the Iowa caucus results come out takes a while these days there chocolate chip cookies here Tahini chocolate chip cookies. Which are your recipe. I'm GonNa try one as you tell me why you decided to include these. I love these cookies more than any other cookies in the whole world right now. I don't like peanut butter. Which many people find that shocking? I only like an unsavory food but I adored Tahini which is ground sesame seeds and I love the Nutty creamy richness. It adds to a chocolate chip cookie sprinkled with white sesame seeds and then when they're still warm you sprinkled with coarse salt so you get sweet savory salty it hits it all the salty part really does make them stand out. You've also got a list in this book of some tips for Baker's making things as simple as cookies including many that I didn't realize like don't crack all the eggs in there at one time. We gotta do them one at a time. Yeah this is a serious baking book. As well is a book filled with inspiring interviews and essays. I learned so much speaking like I mean I just baked baked for months and yet it turns out if you put the eggs in one at a time. It gives the batter a chance to absorb eggs and it builds volume lightness. One of the most important things that I learned baking was to do what the French call Meson. Plus which is getting all the ingredients ready and anybody out. There probably had the same experience. I did where you're halfway through the recipe. The phone rings you get taxed the Ping goes off. And you're like wait. Did I add the Baking Soda? But if you put all your ingredients out on a sheet of Parchment Paper. I'll look it's right there actually. I didn't add it so there are a lot of tips in there that we wanted to give people because baking is about patients. It's unlike savory food where you can kind of shoot from the hip and hard to screw up but peaking requires some patients and slowing down. Kathy this is what number book for. You Sixteen Sixteen. I've got a couple of the other ones that you've written. I occasionally will look into them and do a recipe. I just did your chicken tortilla soup from Ucla but this book in particular it seems is one that you have more passion about than the others. Is that fair to say I would say that. It was the most fulfilling project of my life working with my co author. Catherine offered who's been a friend for ten years and it was like creative sparks flying every day. These women that we reached out to responded we would send an email saying hey. We're working on a project called rage baking and within minutes in many cases we got back a hell yes from people that we admire so much so also for me. I'm a writer. I love to write this book. Combines my passion for food for baking for writing and for editing that is Kathy? Guns are resident chef. Who's new book is called rage? Baking the transformative power of flour fury and women's voices. She wrote it with Catherine offered can thank you so much. Thanks Jeremy. The mcclatchy newspaper chain announced today that it is filing for bankruptcy protection. Mcclatchy currently operates. Thirty newsrooms around the country including the Miami Herald the Kansas City Star the Charlotte Observer and the Fort Worth Star. Let's bring in Alabama she. Msnbc ANCHOR and economics correspondent Halle Germany. So mcclatchy is a one hundred and sixty three year. Old Family owned business. The second largest newspaper publisher in the country. What HAPPENED LISTENS. The sign of the times and of what newspapers have been going through But it's writ large a couple of problems. First of all in two thousand and six mcclatchy bought its much larger competitor Knight Ridder for four and a half billion dollars. Some of it was cash. Some of it was stocked but they assumed two billion dollars in debt and that sort of coincided with a decline in revenue if you look at that period between two thousand six and two thousand eighteen the advertising revenues which is what a newspaper survives on fell by eighty percent daily print. Newspaper circulation fell by fifty nine percent. So they made this purchase. It looked like it was going to be benefiting from the the scale of having these two newspaper companies and then the bottom fell out of the industry now. The chapter eleven filing is going to eliminate about sixty percent of mcclatchy seven hundred million dollars in debt but it will allow the company to keep its thirty newspapers afloat. Apparently what what? What else is in the agreement? Well it's going to transfer ownership basically of the company to a New Jersey based Hedge Fund. Which also by the way owns the national enquirer. It's got a bunch of things in it. That are going to allow for restructuring. A Course got a approved this the biggest issue that they're going to have a problem with is that a lot of the debt is pensions. They argue that they they have. Pensions worker supporting Ten pensions so the pension benefit guaranty corporation. Which a lot of people don't know about are going to is going to have to take over the administration of the company's pension plan that's basically what the big problem is right now they do have some new financing. So there's a possibility that the company will continue to operate while in bankruptcy but going into bankruptcy to get rid of debt is always a tricky situation doesn't always result in what the company wants and is there a billionaire at the end of the Rainbow by this newspaper company as has happened with the course the Washington Post the Boston Globe and others There are some people circling this post media. Which is the largest newspaper chain in? Canada seems to be interested in this whole thing. Chatham has controlling stake in American media and Post Media. Post media tends to be a little bit more of a conservative outlet in in Canada and doesn't have the best reputation of preserving journalism mcclatchy sort of enjoyed a stronger reputation amongst print journalists in the United States. But they're speculation that this hedge fund will eventually by a lot of stuff that will allow it to sort of control the distribution network for newspapers. And so that's this is sort of a multi media play that we're looking and big picture alley. Is there any hope for these local newspapers that have been going out of business left and right to make a comeback? Well I mean since two thousand and four the newspaper sector shed forty seven percent of its jobs They're seventy two hundred remaining American newspapers about a thousand of which are called Ghost newspapers and that they don't really have staffs that do original reporting they're part of a larger organization. I will say that the New York Times and the Washington Post have done relatively well in the era of trump. Because it's sort of given them new relevance and they've seen increased Numbers but this is not looking like the world's best investment right now that is highly bell she msnbc anchor and economics correspondent Ali. Thanks always leisure sidling. America's got talent champions Shin. Lynn is the Canadian. Born American raised magician who stunned viewers on I the US. America's got talent show than the international competition where his sleight of hand beat out fifty other winners from around the world including singer. Susan Boyle it was a windfall. He took the million dollar prize. Validation magic is cool and a springboard to the stint. He starts today two month run at the Mirage in Las Vegas. The twenty nine year old son of Singapore born parents was a budding classical pianist in Massachusetts. He still incorporates. A PIANO INTO HIS DRAMATIC ACT. I was nineteen when I first developed CARPAL TUNNEL. And both of my wrists. He turned to his hobby. Magic the kind were playing cards appear and disappear and before I knew it had ignited and cards burst into flames. Limb Wowed Penn and teller stunned Ellen DeGeneres. We'll have incredible video that here now dot Org. Watch as we sit down with Shin Lim. How did it start? How did you get into cards? Sixteen years old. I just kind of open on the computer. And there's just a plethora of magic tutorials and we know that you were also playing piano at the time. Was there something that cross referenced totally. I think what really kind of excited me about sleight of hand or you know. Close Up Card Magic. Was ill so much like the piano because the piano is very raw and it's all about technique and it's all about skill and that's what magic about you know it's so different from stage illusions like easing David Copperfield. Stuff coming out of hats. Yeah or like cutting girl and ask stuff like that for me. I'm more of a pure sleight of hand so like color changing of a card or or changing the value of a card making vanish from my hand. And I found it fascinating. There is sort of a few to it. It feels. It's there's something around your hands. Your hands are lovely and I think we almost meant to look at your hands. Sometimes like a distraction. It's it's close. Magic race was looking really really closely. And so we're actually performing on stage. We have a high Def camera. That's really really zoomed in on the hands and so it's almost hypnotic. Sometimes it's like a Bali of just the hands and the cards almost like a ballerina when they're doing their routine and there's times almost like a finger almost seems to point me away my. I will follow the finger and then I realize darn I looked. Yeah well that's the misdirection court but it's also usually performed to music and so I kind of have it always flow according to the music so I guess it's my way of still playing the piano indirectly. Yeah Yeah Penn and teller saw you on Youtube and said wait a second. Can this guy do something that that tricks us and you did? What did you do enact? I called the Dream Act. It's actually my very first. I've ever created and it was also like one of the first acts that I did it all to music. You know for for especially close up magic non really ever did it silently. Everyone's always talking making jokes. That's part of the distraction big-time misdirection and also to tell a story. And if you don't talk then you can't do any of those early. That's what they told told everyone when they're teaching class and so for me to had not talked been silent and then just do it. All to music was very different. Some say it was pretty controversial. I thought that there was a whole set of things that have been handed down over years. Yeah it's interesting. How how magicians learn. And you're right. It is handed down from generation to generation in this kind of mysterious and kind of unique way. They are techniques but they're also secrets to right now. They're being handed down by Youtube. That's how the Hans feel about that because you've mentioned that one of your idols was David Blaine and a dear friend of some of us who recently passed away with another idol of many Ricky Jay's really looked up to as you know the Ricky Jay was adamant no revealing any secrets. Sure I mean for me. I have more younger outlook on it for me. I'm fine I don't really care. I think information should be free. You happy to share it. Oh totally because I mean that's kind of the only way magic can grow. Okay so so. How did you put your card inside your shirt when you were doing magic with Ellen and what had been on the car suddenly it's imprinted on your chest and there's nothing on the card. You can probably find out how to do that on Youtube really you. Can you can but the thing you know so the thing is even though you figure out how to do it on. Youtube they'll teach it. I'm sure there's so many tutorials out there but it's you won't be able to performance or at least not right away it's tough it's not easy and so. I think that's why I'm not worried because it's hard you can know how it works but you may not be able to stage magic illusions and stuff like that one. I think probably should be kept a secret because once you know how that stuff works you can do to. It's it's pretty easy because you just need money to buy the problem. Yeah with sleight of hand it's different. It's like the piano so like I'm sure. There's a tutorial on Youtube teaching how to play Moonlight Sonata Movement. Number Three by Beethoven right but It's also really hard to before we talked about your idols. Why was David Blaine? Your idol ricky. John David Blaine was actually the. Og original idle for me. I he he. He was doing a lot of close up street. Magic on Youtube can be a quarter now. People change the consistency of metal. What what what. He was like my source for learning cartridge. So you would have like the David Blaine tricks in underneath. It will be like how to David. Blaine do all these tricks and I would click on. Kinda learn how he did it but not just that David. Blaine was also kind of the first magician. That made it cool. You know because Back then magic was it still is kind of cheesy. But he made it cool. And so that's why you say it's cheesy. I don't know that's just what everyone said at the time. I mean it's how they it's their take on magic like Ricky Jay. He's super well-spoken very mysterious. The way each magician tells a story with magic. 'cause FOR PIANO. I saw a lot of PIANOSA and the way they play the piano Didn't see that same type of character trait as magic when they're trying to just make it so unique to them. Do you feel. We're talking about them. You them now. I don't know maybe no ask her. I'm still the same guy that goes on youtube and admires other Michigan. I still do that right now. Casey Casey come on in here. Your your bride closely followed your wedding and Hawaii. Casey Thomas on national and International Television people have squealed out. Oh my God the sexiest magician alive. His hair is a mess. He's got glasses on. He looks kind of like a math whiz. He seems to be in a completely different person on stage he is. There's like two different characters. I guess he has like a stage character where he's that like sixty and mysterious magician and then he gets off stage and he's just an any loves magic and he loves watching movies and music so yeah. It's very different. How have your lives changed now? Masking Yutian Limb. Not just winning. America's got talent but winning the international competition all fifty past winners. I don't know how I one I really don't. Because Darcy Lens pretty amazing and Susan Susan Boil. Why do you think you want? I think a lot of winners were Were were singers right in the past seasons so it was just magic different. Do you think it's gotten a new hip nece. I don't know maybe magic's just kind of changed its direction so a lot of it used to be you know the illusion with Copperfield. Copperfield really changed the game when it came to illusions but it's now focused more close up because of television YouTube Everything yeah because we used to think well maybe there was a trap door or maybe the now. We're seeing it right on the candidates and their excuse any okay. Can you share? Maybe like how did you get? You folded up a card and put it in a young woman's mouth and then you fold it up another one. Put it in your mouth. She's not working with you and then her cards in your mouth in your at her mouth. How did you do a some good old sleight of hand while I'll give you this hint? The tricks done already before. Put the car in her mouth. As much as I'll give I made it I kind of constructor my magic so even though you are looking at the secret you still can't see the secret so good luck trying to find sidland. Thank you so much. Thank you so magician Chin limb. We spoke at our cousins station W. G. B. H. Boston. He's currently in a run of the Mirage in Las Vegas be prepared to be. There is a draft. Executive Order reportedly being circulated inside the White House titled Making Federal Buildings. Beautiful again that would require most new federal buildings to be classical in style emulating the architecture of Ancient Greece and Rome. This order would rewrite principles for federal architecture that had been in place since the early nineteen sixties and it has been roundly condemned by people who care about architecture and design including our next guest Blair Cayman who's the Pulitzer Prize winning architecture critic at the Chicago Tribune Blair welcome back to here and now thank you. German could to be with you. So why do you think that this draft executive order is such a bad idea? I think it's a bad idea because it is profoundly undemocratic in that it would impose classical and traditional architecture on communities that are now free to choose the style of buildings that suits them best. Where does it come from? Who came up with this draft executive order? This is being spearheaded by a small nonprofit group out of Washington. Dc call the National Civic Art Society and they are dedicated to the proposition that all modernist architecture is created poorly and that the the public hates it. They are dedicated to restoring America to a classical architectural tradition and they obviously have some allies in the trump White House because they were able to at least get this draft executive order under consideration. What about in the architecture community more? Broadly do they have support? Are there a lot of people out there who say we should only be building classical architecture? Buildings may not a lot of support. The American Institute of Architects came out against this the national trust for historic preservation came out against it as did other groups including the society of architectural historians. Here in Chicago. They say that They remain convinced. That the dictation of style any style is not the path excellence in civic architecture. Well in fact the principles that are already in place for a federal buildings which were drawn up during the Kennedy Administration. By the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan. He wrote The development of an official style must be avoided and that design must flow from the architectural profession to the government and not vice versa. Exactly and that's really a reflection of the Cold War era. The notion was that a America. Unlike totalitarian regimes that dictated an official style would allow different styles of architecture that were suitable for different regions of the country so the principals have been very effective in terms of guiding loosely. How Federal Architecture should be designed when you think about the federal buildings that have been built since the sixties one stands out to you what what are some examples of different kinds of architecture that you think is a good thing that a policy like the draft executive order was not in place in the last many decades? Well the one that I'm most familiar with is right here in Chicago and that's the Chicago Federal Center designed by Mies van der Rohe one of the great architects of the twentieth century. It is not a fake Roman temple. It consists of a high-rise courts building a high-rise office building in a low rise post office and they pin wheel around a beautiful Urban Plaza That is decorated by a Red Flamingo. Sculpture by Alexander. Calder this ensemble in its black tie. Elegance is kind of like a clearing in the urban forest In other words a classical building a dome building would sit in the middle of An Urban Block. In contrast the federal center here creates an opening for open space and farmer's markets and other civic activities in the middle of that block the draft executive order essentially a mix it really difficult to build anything outside of a classical or traditional style. In addition a building like that resembled say the National Museum of African American history and culture in Washington which is based on African architectural. Presidents would not be allowed so what we're talking about here is really an attack on architectural and cultural diversity. Now Jeremy I wanna be clear that I am not opposed to classical buildings. No style has a monopoly on quality. The point is the imposition of the classical style and the restriction of choice. That's the key. That's the step toward authoritarianism. That is truly troubling about this proposal. Step toward authoritarianism. You think Just from from the architecture of our federal buildings because taxpayers pay for these. And it's their money it's their community they should be free to Be Able to choose. The country is more diverse culturally demographically architecturally and our building should really reflect that they should not be decided by bureaucrats or the stroke of a pen From the occupant of the White House that is Blair came in the Pulitzer Prize winning architecture critic at the Chicago Tribune Blair always great to talk to you. Thank you talk with you. Jeremy Thank you. You're in as a production of NPR and WBZ in association with the BBC World Service. I'm Jeremy Hobson unraveling is here now. Two years ago Max. Sch ACTORS. Fourteen year old son. Alex was killed in the Parkland school shooting. We Miss Him. And we love 'em and I would give everything up for for a second just to have one more minute with my little boy. Schachter now runs a foundation committed to school safety. We'll talk with him next time on here now.