26. Nelson Terroba - Legends Defensive Specialist
Welcome to the big FELLAS podcast where we chop it up about all things past present and future about the game of basketball. Where facts stats and context reign supreme. Blasphemous sometimes, it gets crazy but we always keep it real always keeping real get ready to learn from players, coaches, and fans from the levels of the game and see the court and a brand new way. And now, fresh off the sidelines. Here's your host John Hart Phyllis. What did you fellas and walk into a big FELLAS basketball podcast I'm your host, Jay h coming to from. New York City the Mecca of basketball today I'm excited to be joined by coach Nelson to Rober coach Nelson Assistant Coach and Defensive Coordinator for the Dallas Mavericks Affiliate Texas Legends, and this episode we had a lot of fun talking about how coach Nelson fell in love with being around the game coaching lessons that transcend levels and the importance of the defensive side of the ball we've gotta go in and if you today Fellas at number twenty, six Nelson to Roba legends defensive specialist was also what's GonNa? Be Too. Good to meet you. Good to be here. John Thanks for having me. I appreciate you coming on. We're GONNA have a really good discussion about all the cool stops she maine and all the cool things you've been you've been up to. So just to start off, can you kind of give our listeners a little description of of that first time you got into the basketball and and what that looked like for you? Were Yeah I mean honestly that it goes back to obviously childhood my brother actually I looked up to my brother growing up he was older than me by a couple of years So when I was young like in fourth grade a watch him play in. In this fired at WanNa do that as well. So you know played through high school dripping springs Texas, which is outside Austin was there really enjoyed love playing. Loved The you know my team in high school. We had a really successful senior year district champs and you know big deal for us but just had such a great time with the team. It's such a great time with with the with my teammates and just enjoy the team I went to Ut University of Texas in Austin and one of the things as I went I enrolled in the business school at ut. and. You know what happened is that You know I just I did that for two years was fine. I could could've kept doing it. People kept telling me when I was coming up or making those decisions that you know you should definitely not do teaching and coaching because. You know. It's not enough money in it is what they would tell me so So I did business school kind of better out of reaction to that and just I volunteered at my alma mater is the middle school kind of volunteer Coz while I was in college ran the seventh and eighth grade off season and. Being clashed and I'd be drawn up plays and doing practice plans and kind of told me that that's probably what I should do. That's awesome. I can relate to that so much because I'm currently twenty old junior in college in my freshman year I played Varsity Xavier High School my senior year before that in high school and might coach ask. Coach currently he's been here for twenty he's retiring now would you like to come in and take the freshman team and it was like he gave me a week to the side but my answer was yes from the moment he asked me so and I've loved every second of it since then I'm just curious like so you were opposite super young coach like the kids weren't that much younger than you. What was that like for you in in terms of being a young coach at that time? Well doubled things. So it's interesting how it works as a coach Grouping, springs I really enjoyed my coach coach Shelton and high school, and then there was a girls coach coach English was very successful was gross because our school and he actually was shooting in the gym after school one day as you know after season was over to senior and he called me into his office and he said, Hey, you know have you ever thought about coaching? And I said, yeah actually I have you know he's like I think you'd be really good if you thought if you you know decided to do it. In terms of this, you know the reason I mentioned that to your question is you know just start at a young age like I just always probably like you Kinda just naturally enjoy. Teaching enjoy helping love the game you know and I also was quick to relate to those players because I remember obviously being a Middle School of being an eighth grader. You know a wishing that I had a coach that would. Give me some things that can help improve and that cared and all that stuff. So Obviously when you're young, there's the benefit of being able to connect with your players because of the age related ability from that set since But also, and I'm sure you've seen it yourself John, you know working, you also want to be a real coach. So you you don't WanNa be just there buddy and just their friends so At a young age I think it was really good for me to learn how to be relatable but also being charged and be a leader via via coach not be a friend be your coach figure and so it was you know there are challenges with it but I. I really enjoyed it and and It was really got me going on my coaching career to be honest with you. Let's grand is, of course, it's a very difficult kind of trend that line of am I being there. Because my best friend or am I am I still able to be a coach and then also the same time they're comfortable coming to me and telling me coach I'm having I'm having trouble with is whether it's class or something and they know, okay coach John Because he's He's twenty post to another coach that's older I'm comfortable telling him so like that relationship is super important to foster and then also keep it in check the doesn't go doesn't go overboard. So that's fantastic. Thank you for sharing that. So. Then after years, go on vacation space what ended up having made the transition to coaching the professional ranks. Okay. So I was Texas and So when I was there I ended up becoming a student manager. So the same coach coach, English who had encourage me to think about coaching as working his summer basketball camp and And he had one of those daily messages of Kinda. Don't put off. You know what you WANNA do. Another day thing. So got me thinking. And so coach Barnes. Barnes, just been hired at the University of Texas. So I. That day went home and wrote a letter to coach Barnes. You know kind of saying that I had read a book about him and ended I. Would I'm a Texas fan of Texas students would love to sweep the floors work for free just learn about the game in about four five days. Later got a voicemail will back back in the day because I'm old there was a voice answering machine. So. There was an answering machine with with a voicemail from one of the assistant coaches sane. Coach Guitar saying that You know coach Barnes. You letter and we'd love you to come in and work camp. So, the reason, I say that is because working Texas camping and eventually become a manager with the first thing that really opened my eyes up to this kind of higher level of basketball. This deeper dive into the game you know the the that level of competitiveness, all that stuff So a always enjoyed high school and I enjoyed playing and learning it but being in Texas allowed me to see just how much there was to learn. So. Being there of for Union a couple years manager in one year on staff as special assistant. After that I decided I wanted just to high school and teach coach. So I did that for nine years and one of the people I worked with at Texas will avoid He was a special assistant when I was he ended up going on his own track after Texas and became a professional coach. In. Norway. In Vermont, he ended up being the. G. League back in the. D.. League Bakersfield Jam. We always kept in contact I thought forever that there's no there's not one bit of me that ever wanted to be a pro head coach or pro coach I thought that pros would not want to be coached at that. There was not much that I could offer them. You know in terms of might experience. and. You know. I just didn't know much coaching at the pro level you know and so that was a lot of misconceptions I had but will and I were talking in one time he decided you would lie I. have an open position here. Kind of video assistant coach If you WANNA come up, you know we would love to have you and so I was in assistant at that time I thought maybe I can do this in grow on improvements up. So I can be a better high school coach so I went and did it and when I did I really. Really enjoyed, it was just loved that whole kind of level to gain the again this the pace of the game, but the amount of knowledge. Learning the systems terminology all this stuff like seeing how to make that will come to life, and unless they really seeing that these players also you know wanted coaching were coach. That, there was things to help them with. All those realizations something understand that the pro game was something that I could enjoy. That's fantastic. Especially, considering like guys get to that level. Because they've been coach their entire lives. If you're not comfortable, the chance to be getting to that pro level is is very, very difficult. So it's whether you point that out because it is something that people think, Oh, you know those guys coach themselves they've been for the the they've gone to that point by letting the people coach them by by deferring and saying, okay where can I get help to to get better at whatever aspect of the game at it is so that's great and it's something that would I be comfortable in a situation Xavier at like it's home to me. So that's why it's easy to coach. There I'm Howard. Have to figure out the next years as am I comfortable in other situations could could I could I blend myself in it and that's what would you decide in terms of that decision for you with something it's very real for a lot of coaches. So so that's that's that's awesome. Come, get, and being there. You know in learning from will will was a very good coach. I will wait It kinda gave me a template to a wills not a former player, right? He's a guy who worked alongside. So He's a guy that that I can relate to in terms of finding pathway up into you know pros and stuff like that for me to be honest from non-playing background. And also at that time is when I met, George Gallup was who's the head coach now Texas leads and so he was he was there and we worked together for Year in the. Kind, of started you know friendship mentorship kind of relationship at that point and then you know so that's you know fast forward to we'll get to that in the story where I'm at now but but that's you know. In later, down, the Road George as he is now, the head coach in Texas legends was was You know Kind enough to to offer me a physician you know when I was. Looking past season in its ended up, being really good set up for me so. That's how it all out. So You Touched on a lot of the mentors that you've had that have guide you through this whole thing how important is that for for you to have mentors like that? That could say I could take a chance on you and say whether it's now with with a even earlier when you were. In Texas, what what was that like for you? Oh man mentors for everything. You know like they're the people that that make you see things before you can see them right that's what coaches do to. Right. So coaching was a mentor. He helped me see that could be a great coach or his version of that before I you know ahead in my head, but he may seem more real. You know when I was at Texas Robin near posted the near is is Still Guy looked up to he's now the head coach at Georgia state was just a really honest Great. Charismatic but but just true high character guy who? You know when when I was there in Texas TJ Ford and and he told me even then he's like we can get Tj here to Texas you know he'll be the first of many come this way and he was he was very prophetic in the sense that you know after that we get you know cade the lamarcus Aldridge Daniel Gifts and you know Dj Tucker I mean there's some. Plays. Avery Bradley Accord Joseph Coach, Tj was started at but those who was a big mentor Texas then you know when I got into High School coaching obviously the people I worked with were big for me and then You know then. Will again him showing kind of template for success as a coach was big in I worked at Erie I with coach Peterson He was great great player development coach excellent in high character guy very, very good guide to learn from and You know everywhere you go in every step along the way you know with the realities we're always learning you know and no I always say that. Everybody needs coaching. And Coaches need coaching, right so Would you can you me all of us concern ourselves with a circle of influence it that can help. Mentor US and lead us in during tricky times That's what everybody needs. Of course I've been super important and it's a message to. Your find your mentors, find people that that will see things for a before you have to see a great message. So then you end up. Making the decision to professionally whether it's when you're an assistant with every blackhawks or later down the line what what does that been like for you and obviously everyone always talks about the how difficult Julius from other leagues obviously from the college aim for many many of the League being that whether it's roster turnover or things of that nature what's happening like for you? Good question I think to be honest with you. I've always viewed coaching very similarly. So coaching is teaching right so Each day that you're in a gym is a is a lesson plan right in a teaching opportunity and so regardless of the turnover or the you know stability or whatever it's going on all around you at the end of the day everyday you show up to work. It's saying you know we're teaching today with whatever we have in front of us and whoever we have in front of. So I, think, honestly, my you know my experiences, a high school coach for those years has been invaluable for me as a coach because in high school. I say, this high school coaches could learn from pope pro coaches high school in college coaches for them from coaches. In the sense that is approach you have to earn your players respect every day. You earn your players respect with your preparation with your ability to prepare them for the situation to get them better for their success new competence, right They're not gonNA really get too far about your motivational speeches and things like that. They just want to know how are we going to win and how am I going to improve? So, you have to earn it every day as a pro coach. So that's one thing. The other thing that. College in high school coaches could learn from approaches that you. You know you have to be organized. You have to be efficient. You have to have a system of talk language. It's organized and you've got you know you can get in and out of a practice in an hour and a half or two hours and get everything you need done. You know if you're fishing So I think high school in college coaches can contend to drag it on can try to you know Tenet and it's like to do drills for the drills was like a drill. You know when you're pro coach? No, we don't have time to do that. That has thrilled. It's it's cool to look at it doesn't actually apply to the game. Right so you got to be really intentional. Now flipside is is what what helped me as a pro coach or has helped me as a pro coach general manager when I was at Saint John. Is that. I think pro coaches should have a high school coach Italian, which is. And College coaches as well, which is the school coach I have to teach. WHOEVER'S THERE I don't get to Bitch whine and complain about I. We need better players or we need to we need to go trade for somebody else or the roster is flawed when you a high school coach you know this is the group I have you don't complain wine or a wish you had better. You know that that's what it is your job as a high school coaches to coach and teach whoever's there. So that mentality of just teaching whoever it is if they're low your coaching freshman freshman be team, you gotta find a way you might have to teach left-handed layups one day you may have to teach the basics right and you've got to be able to go from. You know this level down here all the way to this level appears a high school coach on a daily basis teacher so that those skills and that training is absolutely what you need to be a good. A good pro coach can sometimes especially in the G. League, we guys like we had guys that were nineteen twenty years old who maybe had one year college experience. So they really are at a high school level of of knowledge sometimes. So you have to be able to meet their needs at that level in also, you've got to be able to meet the needs of the ten year pro who's on your team as well. So you gotta go between those levels of knowledge. Of course I couldn't help but laugh just when you when you brought up the left-hand land because my all my freshman. Was podcast. I may know there were a lot of left-handed labs both missed and taken in practice year to get better with them. So W it I. It's so true that to look if that lens of I'm here to teach I'm not here to talk because look at it from I'm here to teach instead, I'm here to win games, everything changes your your approach changes. The way the way the way you just. The way you present everything all the information you're giving out completely different 'cause it's not from the sense of like I'm showing this for you so I can. I can look it's I'm this. So you can get it become a better plan. That's what I care about. So that's Super Super Kid. In that, that's what leads to win. True and you get the result we're looking for to begin with right. That's that's great. So I'm in from the G. League. Obviously, you went to the NBA with the John Todd actually had on all the Stevenson on just a few days ago we were talking about the differences between the these other leagues as well as. Just. The basketball is like in Kanye. So what was that transition to especially that we just discussed the G. League in with that was like not over to Canada. Well you know again, every step along the way help be prepared for the next one. So you know being able to have seen, you know the G. League you know operated at a at a higher level or whatever you WanNa say you know help me understand that I had I'm just like any other human being whenever you go into a new setting. When you go into, you know if I'm going to be the head coach and general manager of the Saint John Riptide haven't been the general manager before right but I have. I have been ahead. Barcelona coach had to make cuts for freshman, JV embar city, and had to pick a team right So, you know. have been at Texas and help with recruiting. So you know some of the same concepts come up but so the N. B. L. itself is a great league It's a very competitive they have. Seven Americans on the roster. In three Canadians. So seven out of ten or American. Canadian and so what happens there? It's to me. It's one of the most competitive international leagues there are because it's got the most the some of the most Americans allowed on a roster. So, what happens is the League itself is not a League at pays exorbitantly like you know the money in the League is not out of out of Control, Euro Cup or anything like that. It's a but it's a great league a great league for players really good players to get a chance to start. Their careers and also to be playing against very high level players. So we've had Saint John. We had guys like from high major de ones from Baylor TJ masten at guys from d three. D to you know all the way through the whole gamut high majors. In the same league. And but but the league, itself is very good. Very competitive. coaching is very good. So I would say to you or anyone like when I compared to nbl candidates G. Lee the I'd say the top three players on any roster in in the NBA Candida are good enough to to make a roster on Geely. it's just a question of you know fit in opportunity a lot of times. Of course an extra important to figure out that balance of of fit between where you go for for that. I was curious. What exactly is is hoops WANNA? One I notice that I was curious as to how that fit in with everything. hoops WANNA one when I was in college in the year two thousand. I I worked a a camp in it's called the Don Meyer Don Meyer used to be you know a great legendary teacher the game he used to have a camp in Nashville, which was the biggest camp in the nation six, hundred, seven, hundred kids a week. And but Don Meyer who was a descendant of Snow Valley which later learned. So Valley's a basketball school that I still go to every year Santa Barbara. It's guys like coach Popovich Band van, Gundy's Pat Riley Rick. majerus coaches, legendary coaches, John Wooden you know on the west coast near Santa Barbara where it was kind of, whether I teaching camps ever well, Don Meyer. Went there took his model to Nashville. At went and worked his camp and I was like man this is great. The way they teach. It's awesome. So I wanted to start my own camp in Austin where I'm from So just kind of got the idea know in my head and started the you know the can't hoops one did that We haven't you know we only like one session a year right now but but you know being away from Austin it's it's gotten a little smaller over the years, but it was really my my chance to basically. You know Kinda like what you're doing John. Like just. Just. Have Your own baby where where you get to be creative do your teaching come up with everything you know. Hire people you know come up with curriculum come up with marketing come up with whatever, what are we going to teach? How am I working with kids? How am I managing a whole group of Jim People Organizing? So who's was probably one of the best things I've ever done in terms of teaching and learning as well because you know at a young age at the age of twenty one, I was in charge of basically an operation that that made me have to be in charge of other peers. Instruction all that stuff running a business if you will. and. Those things really accelerated my growth in what happens is just like you know, they talk about the ten thousand hour rule you know every time I taught you know I would teach every year and every session I would be refining how my teaching defense how we teach you defense how we make this better I saw that fourth grader, pick this up that ninth grader, pick this up. How can I make this simple enough that that sixth graders could learn just like twelfth graders could. So you you really are almost like. Working in a lab, constantly a teaching lab or you see how can I get my teaching tighter and simpler and more effective so that it is more universal and the truth is you know what? I would teach our guys in pros. Now I tell people this difference between me and in a high school coaches just by title know but but I think that that ability to that that what? I teach now hopefully I make it so simple that I would teach sixth grade of the same thing and they could understand it. and that's something. A lot of people don't understand or don't readily pickup. Coach you need to be out of off the charts. All kinds of ways I think you just have to be an excellent teacher with great command over the subject that. that. was I love that because. I just that whole you'll you're your. Weight up just bring together those two things he would say pre different high school coach, professional coach, and be like well, the every everyone about the basketball knowledge is the same. It's all about whether or not. You can take it from one level to the next in terms of can what you teach on one level also be taught another level and that whole idea of. If you can if teacher or if you're a good if you can get people to listen to you, that's all you need. It's not it's not about, okay. If approaches a thousand times smarter basketball band, the visual individual, and then the division to coach a division three coaches does it doesn't work like that. It's not a it's not a perfect ladder. So that was awesome and then I also like what you said about having your own, your own baby I always call it. I was told people I'm happy I started my own thing but it kind of is like a baby it's just this they watching grow it's three or four months old getting A. Baby steps to get it to your six months a year old and we'll see how it goes from there. But no, that's awesome that you're able to start that in a it is such a great experience. You just use your mind just such working differently thinking differently now that you have your own thing to take care of as opposed to doing stuff for other people. So that's that's great. Yeah and I would say one woman lies thing about that. Is it you know I personally know several high school coaches in the coach against that I'm friends with. That are better coaches than pro coaches at work. You know and I know you know. Same thing I, know some pro coaches that are obviously way better than high, school coach so good coaching is good coaching good coaches take pride in their preparation coaches take pride in their teaching take pride in knowing their subject matter take pride in connecting with their players in really helping players take pride in the feedback process. Great coaches this it's just like master teaching. It is a, it is a process that that is not tied to age level. For sure. The athletes get better but a good coach. What will be a good content? That's great So then now you're upset with Texas legends, your coach and defensive coordinator. So I want to touch on the defensive side of things both what was kind of relationship with coach joined in terms of deciding to go and work for and then what it's been like sense. You know. So with with Canada like I said the League so the team I was with Saint John really enjoyed my time there the people the players But what did reality sometimes people to understand about minor league roses? You know sometimes teams run out of money. So our team in Saint John ran out of money and because of the the the team disbanded right so then You know I didn't have a job not for having been fired but just because it was the more team and so at that time I reached out to George today man this came up this looks like we may not have a team next year so. If you hear anything kind of stuff. And he you know he had just gotten ahead job there and he you know not my understanding is that his staff was full but I was you know because I know he would talk to people he might hear something. Excuse me. He said honestly might be something here. And I said well. That would be ideal and. So. The reason it's ideal. People, talk it's good to work with somebody you know but you know the more I've been in the business in the industry for longer and longer you know for me it's about three things you know, I, WanNa work in a place where you know I am aligned with my leadership in terms of our values. What we think is important you know if not no matter what we're doing beyond that would just there's probably going to be a disconnect. You know my boss thinks they it's all about the money you got to get people in seats. You know I don't care if we cut this guy or keep that guy or that guy you know is you know late for every meeting. We just need people, seats and. Help with all culture or whatever. Then I probably won't. We probably won't have a lasting relationship, right? So it's really important that I shared the values with my leadership number one align they're number two I want to come to work every day in a place where I enjoy coming to work and working with people around every day, and that means the players that means a staff that means you know everyone support staff. So and thirdly you know you wanna make you know at some point in time in your career you know you wanna make enough money such that you don't. have to think about it. You know not that you need to make a million dollars six, hundred, thousand, two, hundred, thousand, one, hundred, thousand even but you you WanNa make enough money. So you don't have to think about it. So one thing that that that you know work with George has been great because you know we are aligned in terms of our values he is about you know wanting to help players I, he's not about self promotion you know what I mean and. He's about helping guys get better and helping people get more opportunities. So we share the values He wants to be a great teacher I do as well So those kind of things that we some of the same things matter to both of us. So that's really critical in terms of US having a great working relationship he is. He allowed me to be in charge of the defense. and he's in charge of the offense. So the trust that he hasn't is through the roof and and obviously me with him as well. So we have a really unique partnership where you know we really work together on a Lotta stuff constantly. So and he has allowed me to have a voice. So those things have been really good with George and and he's You know in you know he's he was. He led. To a very great turnaround this past season and you know we were inquisition of to make the playoffs before can cut it short but but working with George has been. A great deal of fun in the staff has been great in the players we had were great and being in. DALLAS, is only three hours from Austin, which is home for me. So it was really a really good situation for me. Another the that's that's great and what you're saying, it's so true but import to be aligned with with the with the staff, the people above you only because it's not so much that the connection has to be there for. Her for a subsidy it done it's also for. Be Interesting what you're doing and the next raise your level if if if you're trying to get the best players they could be. Like you say ownership just worried about the bottom line and and and bring in dollars, then you're not gonNa get both things aren't going to happen the right off talking to be because the teams can be bad teams can be bad because you're trying to make them but you also worried about all these other conflicting it's so important to have that connection. And then Had, this had thought I was cut. This had had a good thought. Would you know what you're saying is right John. That that that is the connection and then like just again being able to Again this is same thing with player by the way player when a player feels. At home in connected with their coach, their head coach, right? I, know what he wants I know the system I know how to use everything I know where to use my talents right How I can conversations with change things if I need to. Win a player feels that level of security support in in structure right. There you're going to get the best version of a player. With that's no different for a member or for a head coach working with his front office when you feel support when you feel the structure in the alignment and you feel how everything fits together and now that you fit really well there in and how your strengths fit in no matter who you are or what will you have? You're going to get the best best version that person if they feel those things. that that's that's so true and what I was thinking of saying was is that a lot of had I like all the ones that have these winning teams that are that are making the playoffs and and winning teams Wallace developing players are the ones that put an emphasis on that as opposed to cleanups on a well John know who really looking to. Have successful team and and and we're looking at the mobility of our franchise. I don't really hear that a lot of hear a lot about it's all about developing and all about getting. Guys get called up. We're happy about that. We're not trying to keep guys down here to win games when guys called the Leon. We now have a less talented team maybe what had with that because guys are getting opportunities that they've earned workforce so that that's a super cool. Deep in its but that's you know that's no different Than High School coaching, right? That's no different than when I was a middle school coach. You know you talked about makes me laugh thinking about you talked about being a young coach right? and. You know getting used to IT I. Never, forget the first game that I coached. Right I was probably eighteen and. The Guy who's supposed to the original head coach that it was eighth grade team. We were down seventeen to four at the half. Okay. This is stricken springs versus like Travis who cares? I remember it still seventeen to four. We were down you know I, go in at the half time in the coach. Coaches like he was getting ready for the eighteen game. You know the the eighteenth as like as like or you're going to go talk to those guys like. You can have them. You know I'll I'm GONNA get ready for the eighteen game. You know so I was like. A PERFECT Alibi it. So I go and talk to the guys. Dance tempting for we end up coming back you know this is middle school eighth grade team. We ended up coming back and we ended up winning like twenty four to twenty two you know but our member Utah young coach in all that stuff I remember a time out at the end of that game I called timeout. And I'm trying to drop a play on the board who knows what I'm drawn because it's completely trach unsure of it but I'm trying to draw a place. That's what you're supposed to do. Because you're a coach you call up the time out and you're supposed to have the play though try to drop play extra try to the left. In. My hand is shaking because unlike excited and I'm like all these things in. The kids who was like in eighteen players names time mullins he was watching you know Kinda like supporting these Watson Watsonians I started trying to draw on the board is coach your hand shaking. And I remember saying as like shut up tie y'all pay attention you know as there to try to get a fake it till I make. It's funny how you can get from that position there that point in your development right as a coach to you know now you're in. A G., League playoff situation or an NBA Canada game five series defining game in your time out in you you feel the confidence knowing to handle that the go-to. rewind twenty years earlier in you've gotta shake hand and you're an eighth grade team Jim where with twenty five people watching and and you still feel that that connection to the game. The. Great because the connection, the Games always GONNA be there and I mean these these these events have until recently for me just two years ago. But I remember I can tell you the score and where we were what team you're playing, who their best player was for all those teams where. My hands shaking the whole time and I'd go in and have to talk to him afterwards and it was always it was funny because all the coaches much older and they will always old John like John. The. Team Jon take you know take this responsibility go do this and do I like it was. It was it was a learning experience, but it was never something that I was think back early onset It's awesome. Sure On. So just real quick to wrap up I wanted to touch on some of the defensive stuff that you've done opposites your specialty I saw you publish the Book Mba Defense for levels the six defensive questions, every coach answer, can you tell us about both? What was a writing that publication also? What that looks like for you west. So technically, it's not a, it's not a book it was So I did A. Always said it it's it's an article right He. Was a what is it? It's like at online you know basically a lecture on you know. So I did virtual coach's clinic and then transformed data transfer that into basically a lesson you know the course basically online course you can. Pay Or whatever to to learn from but yeah, no to be honest with you. I really do enjoy doing clinics enjoy doing I've done some in Mexico have some you know those virtual clinics have been a couple I love to do it because just like anything you know it it forces you as a teacher to really corral your information to really distill what you're teaching to. Really. You know. Just, like when I was a classroom teacher used to teach world history you know and I'm trying to teach the American revolution or the French Revolution or whatever. There's a lot of stuff there. So I've gotTa to find a way to make the American revolution seem easy and connected right and so with defense or offense or whatever we're doing with basketball some of those same things are really important. So being able to distill you know defense to those six essential questions. And being able to Kinda help people find their own voice within those questions. I think is is been critical for me being able to teach you know you you've heard this. John I'm sure you remember twenty, five percent of what you hear if the percent of what you see in here. Something like seventy, five percent of what you see here and write down. But you remember like ninety five percent of what you teach somebody else. So the more chances I, get to teach you know and those clinic formats and put those things together. The more I said, Hey, you know what? This is only getting me better for when I teach my team coached by team the next season. So that's why I really enjoy the benefits. Of course in Clinton clinics are super i. now just go onto absorb information, but you're right. So t yourself that's when you really get massive the the information that you're you're talking about. So that's awesome and and coach. Thank you so much for coming on. This was absolutely fantastic I. I wouldn't so much especially from someone that kind of had a similar study paths to what I'm on right now. So that was super formula for me. My listeners will join it as well. So thank you. An honor appreciates you ask and appreciate the questions you had and It seems like you've got your you've got your things figured out there at a young age. So you know I. Look for to Chart Near Success John and I really appreciate you even asked me to be. Awesome. Thank you so on the recording. Thanks for listening to the big FELLAS podcast. Check us out on all major social media platforms Ed big fellows pod to join that CHAPA. You can also listen to us on every podcast platform on the planet. Stay tuned for the next episode big FELLAS.