Decolonizing the GLAM sector
Hi I'M ESTA I'm together. We up the well-stoked out bus recording in isolation so where hopefully going to be a coming to you and founding right so testing the connection so Dubai with us. This is not the quality you will come to expect from the website. That was what we were trying to say together by the way. Well Spokane Turkish. Can I get one two three right? We need to do say in one fell asleep. Okay we're GONNA start from beginning okay. Hi with ESTA guys on. We owe the world can do that. Look you in my US definitely so I don't know 'cause comparing well I said I said for me I that I thought we ended up together. Redid Note Okay so enjoyable older your problems that you will. We're in isolation whistling. I attack But this podcast. The well-spoken diggins tries to fix the cultural set and try to make it a bit more inclusive prevalent So what we were going to talk about. Today is decolonization of the cultural. How I felt like this out. I think `isolation is making us by a little bit Craig crack. So that's good. 'cause we embrace on neuro divergence great. I think he's making be slightly. Just accepts mccray craters. Wow that was good So yeah talk to me so we met through an organisation. Called Museum took northwest. No we didn't. We met ages before that but one of the reasons the podcast because we were involved museum. knows less also just like talk out. People is one of the things. Yes this is true. But they're so few people of Color working in the museum sector Is Great for us to be able to come together but one of the things that just come up. Quite law is the collections saying barry coded White. Should I guess so? Today we're GonNa talk about decolonization of just going to do that. Everytime Whoa it came up because we were discussing about wonderful wonderful Phil Black Panther which I think is a record French week so because I watch a lot of TV and boom initiative We will probably be. Let's striving quiet discussions with the use of popular culture so We were going to run a clip from the film. Blood pumper which illustrates what we're talking about. Relation to different perspectives on museum collections. And particularly a black perspective on the museum's Collection Wing. Check out these artifacts. It's an expert. You could set. They're beautiful where's this one from Bobo Shanti trive? Hasn't they GONNA Nineteenth Century? What about this one was from either? People have been in sixteenth century. Now tell me about this one also from the name seventh century Fula tribe. I believe thank you Hon. Do is take him over disorders in Benin from conduct. And it's made out of. I burn your phone true. I'M GONNA get hands for are sale. How do you think he s got these? You think they paid a price but do they take. They took everything else. So it's a great clip. It was great. I'm really strokes point but you know being made to feel unwelcome in space. Even you know as the one who looks africom is in a museum looking African displays and this immediately put bound by vacuum like what is wrong with a woman does not have a is brave unsew. Many levels like not acknowledging but he might have a take on the collection but she knew best that she was all informed powerful. I think that was an experience that happens to quiet of us when we get to museums. Where the story that's told about. People of color definitely comes from a very sort of colonial vary empire driven perspective and the way that they talk about those exhibit. It's like Oh yeah. This wonderful explorer went out and found this. I'm not pulling that Michael Jordan raises about the city price say Lena so much collections all London. It is a really prevalent conversation. Stop movie came out. That the discussion dictation might link to some of them about what it is museums. Continue to actually embrace it. I mean that was A collection in New York where it was a black and African collection and they appointed a new director of there and of course it wasn't a person of color And that was a huge huge Backlash and I think the more more now people talking about it and we'll backlash about the idea of actually if you all going to have these collections one they need to be more diverse and have more diverse voices coming out with them. What do you think I think I have already weighed relationship with decolonization? Because when I was like. Oh yeah that's great. That's something that we need. And then when I saw deeper I was like well. It's almost impossible to do. We Sell Fast Reeducate Leeann Taya. What folsom museum sector? Probably apart from those who people of Color because anyway you see about work being done. No like because colonization is not as sake like it. I mean intensive the way. It's toyed schools the way it's even spoken Abou- In museums away spoken about in galleries. Whisper libraries I can go into any gallery in most cities in the world and I will see especially in Europe. Things have been taken for my about India A head on contextualized with the European history on with a context. Like if you look at it from the other point of view it's like these people came stole pillars draped took these trinkets back and then didn't give a proper context of which they were used taken or whatever like I've see I've been in to leave the Enough see things from like Fox about seeks. The wrong talks about but it's rum and you just think well this carol. The research working for the carrier. Did it really do enough research? And that's where the problem lies. You've put these people doing that. She don't have any lived experience of. I'm doing my check. Dove Act even if the default check that fact checking against other people don't have the lived experience of it and just taking what they undecided which may be mistaken and question it because they've never been asked question anything that they've ever done and then we'll go to cycle of lake talking about The colonial history and how it affects not only people of color but LGBTQ people and Trans people the way affect no binary people how basically gender is a construct because of it. How marriage is a construct because because of how the nuclear family is closed up because because it's like without actually having a really hard lessons about looking at what we've essentially what we taking ourselves and what we've been teaching children for the last however many is schools have been compulsively over history. Then we con- Actually Dakota's anything. Okay so this two different aspects. I think the decolonization question. That happening is about how we actually look at. What's on display and how we conceptualize and talk about what's on display on. Also the idea which is one. I think possibly slightly an easier. Thanks for quite interesting than it's happening and fight says the for example the museum that's committed to returning leakage colonial artifacts to that may country And that that was going to be something that kind of national policy and nuts walk. Just stop doing actually not only re context what they're saying within the museums. Also having a policy of you know making sure that what they have in them museums should rightfully be there. If there is on loan from that native country as opposed to with this is part of our collection now And in not working which I think is actually really good work that needs to be done And possibly the easy part of what you is. I rather than not rather than because that needs to be done without that. It's not going to be done in a day. That's amazing cultural shift that needs to happen. I just acknowledging what's in my collection isn't actually rightfully This country The prime example obviously paying the museum the Break Museum. How of the British Museum is Truly Truly British. And how much is being the worst? Think in the as Of Conquest and yeah what's the you know ongoing mission. What messaging they can change that. Because I've seen things right in about things. Museum has done in recent recent time post on the lead to essentially yet. The they don't really care. I mean we do happen. Second Clip that we discussed. Which is the James Acosta Comedy? Sketch which talks about what is essentially the the attitude that play that for you now not long ago. That's still very in Britain says sale. We loved everyone screen. That was great. Gold swept away about blinds. We hid in a museum. Now it's the model only countries who stole from Hoskin for that stuff which signed the blanket. No now view the ascent in that. Obviously you saw Wall Street with Shaw event. Shot right use shallow and it and it's really interesting because it a very integrate. These two examples are tackling the conversation embroiled culture. This is white guy on his comedy tool. That's pretty mainstream. I mean on all the major major oscar-nominated blockbuster talking about this issue that affects people. You know people like us and doesn't get I think it's an amazing then. Reach the powerful. How PEOPLE ALLOWS EVERYONE? There is often gets not like this It's not niece to us as people like. Everybody knows this. This is what we know in. This is not news to us now. What's the situation with work for in something that you have to bring up as compensation even if that open to having the conversation you still have to bring it up? I'll I is it like people who don't work in this sector. People going to the the comedy shows people just out and about. Yeah that aware of is they is open like the institutions of the last two way then the whole thing. When we went to the bat I museum. Detox is these institutions basically old white guys and possibly old white women as well. We talked about about first meeting. I remember seventy that message. She about okay. This is a meeting. That's contributed museum development networks sector. Where they're doing a call out people who are working in people of color working in museums. That was the corporate and I genuinely tax is just GonNa be you and make sure it was just giving you the even people. Yeah even now. Knowing people who voted the sector. I also have been caught. The script for an amount of time is we're not visible. We absolutely not visible. You'll one of the most visible people I know who ex museum sectors pass McCullough. That went line. Yeah so and that first thing again it was for the northwest and I looked active. And they're all I think eighty-five individual museums in the north west of those eighty five museums. That was six of us without. I may not just tragic absolutely tragic and even be more people say you know that. It was eight and five museums across Manchester Wheat. Big Group itself stretches Liberal Sheffield. It's wide region policy. We've met mostly mentioned Mr Full But those numbers Absolutely indicative why. It's a massive struggle to change the thinking about how museums approach working with people aren't all of the established kind of Noam and I'm quoting nome for is the norm in those organizations is that they are run by people who don't have lived experience of being people of Color being neuro diversion. Possibly you know there might be smelled ubt representation. But how does that as you said you've mentioned transgender people? I'm not sure that I'm aware of anyone transgender. Who works as a payroll in the museum and again when you talk about the people in that group that we're in They tend to be people who are on the shows distance contracts. The cool of these organizations is not run by people who have a different experience than have if they all have buried the Olympics areas and those museums all very similar in what they out in the world. It's a difficult isn't it? Because it's like you want to create change but you also don't want to have to continuously educate people now unless made me coinage to be fair if you pay me like. I'm sorry you've talked about having people come to you on your lunch hour to explain. What the Royal Soaks Racist Text? May or like I'm it. Honestly it depends on who is if it's like a friend who a big like a way to get the top tube is like. I think it's tribal authority and helped him do some research into it We found that we found the backyard of it and stuff like that and we discussed it. We had a nice discussion about it and that was fine because I was like I like tattoos and I like letting things like. Let's find out together. We found Kevin. That was fine and I was really pleased that he offered me while getting like they want us aims ensure but then there's that people who I respect coworkers that's fine but I the That go into being asked on a breaks. I don't get paid for or it on an evening. Like a text message on email or on my day off wherever just reading. It is seats. Because you have to decide how you're going to answer if you're going to answer if you gonNa have to be like you're GonNa pay me this what you're GonNa do if they don't WanNa pay this. How about you like that person to help up is. Is this going on great good? Where're my house is going to help you on on the one hand it sort of like? Oh this is great. They're enthusiastic about learning will on the other side is actually all. They actually perpetuated with themselves. Right Gee they just making me sweat full them and they're not really doing the work themselves and that is something that you know you struggle with daily and it's so hard to actually put yourself in that position. Say You know what I think. It's really important your having these conversations and I think it's important you're having these conversations during that race doing network for yourself Blow on the positive side of things. We both had people that we've worked with the Kenyan true allies to we refer to as mighty whites do. Yeah Rabi do do the work for themselves or you know are coming to you to say. Actually this is what I'm thinking. How can I make this better? And I think those kinds of conversations as he really really makes me happy when I'm having those conversations with colleagues and friends who You know taking the time to go. You know what I got a collection head. I'm not asking you to keep coaching rated with me. But not give you any money for it. Actually I'm going to go down and sit down and look at ways in which I can make this a warranted space a more welcoming space and space. That should be. I'm aiming for for my museum so we've talked about by eight and We also talked about the one of my. My Wife's refuses to be called that she should be an all righty white talented with the quite frankly. It's so red meat's on with that level of understanding and willingness to not be defensive when you bring stuff up and willingness to actually go do the work themselves but I absolutely think she should because the Mike and the mad 'cause she was like Oh my God the bar is Solo. The bar low is in how stolen that one of my favorite couch but yeah the ball. Russillo low. It's in how but you know I'm remy way. We have a hockey over by the bath so by she'll be embarrassed. Eight Brian from the museum especially of the space that is intrinsically one where people of color you know. The police have a long-standing. No one's GonNa be anyway fries. Monks they kind of Rayvey abrasive relationship with people of color that to me knowing that one of her personal mission to make sure the face of welcomes this in that. She's actively doing stuff. I think jus an amazing Presidents Museum That's amazing yeah. Mighty white is Kevin Kevin take. He's GonNa hate this so he used to be on the air a board. He was a cultural diversity officer believe anyway he says Iras off a Medical Association and he had a bursary full every passing to go to all kinds of Records Association Conference Yearly Conference. It was two years ago. Maybe yet she has a anyway. I want it a and then I went to the conference and it was the first time I'd ever good twenty important like some kind of thinking about what I wanted to do. Career-wise and thinks that the when I was like finding into reading room knows when he giant But he's been like over the reluctant. Montoro. I'm just paid like full of him to give me advice and be like you know. We'll just be applicable of drink canal. Just ask questions who gives me? Let's is and will discuss things and it's in part because of him and a few other really really amazing people that have given me. The confidence of the drive to create. A conference is happening at the end of August. Which will hopefully still go cold. Intersectional Gaba disrupted empower obviously tickets. That's the moment completed thunderbolt because of Corona Missouri. She's ruining everyone's lives But that still goes ahead. Then that's going to be an accent booed to not just the mighty white to help me. The lasky is just every single person. He's ever been supportive. Undervalue that support at all. You really can't undervalue having won that. Who's actually not just supportive. Not just talking the talk by walking the walk of helping you. You know I make what you be the best of what you also the organization. You work in feel like a good place to be working. 'cause no one. We love these organizations. We Love coacher. We love heritage. We love stray and we look sharing that it can get really frustrating when it's always the same people that get benefit from what you do so badly in what you do. Yeah so it is amazing to us for so. Yeah we can talk about some of the issues and the problems We could open it out to our listeners. To kind of get back to us and talk to us about things that they find for straying or questions that they might have almost kind of they ask fights per se right. This is the time to ask this. How can you be a museum? How can you engage people? How can you call an election at? Can you revise your thinking around your collections? And HAVE THE NEXT TIME. You put something on the main thing or look back at what you're already doing. A make it summit fat earn something. Everyone could walk through and be proud about instead of just really cool will taper spoiler highly for training sessions. Yes be trained by just great. Go do you WanNa talk about Intersectional Glam? Then so I went. Business in sectional is a trading business and to what does gladstone full. Oh sorry guys. Libraries museums key asset. Also you being on fabulous row. Now I've got heist that solidifies to no one in Guam during Rona. We're all just slightly less. Glamorous the noble except you of Friday's Friday's well. You know I feel like there's a time when I need a bit of south cast. Elevate myself just gotta fill like Just at Higgins what house every day every night. Yes I'm also. I think it's been really nice. Like rite aid buccaneers other people. And that was the point as joy is my side. Hustle. I D- trading sessions or decolonisation. Declawed is the mind Wacky on mobile politically sensitive. Descriptions of is any descriptions in you collections. That you feel you or something. You can't see DJ. Because I guarantee you. There will be some descriptions completely. A acceptable top out at the moment will just be copied and pasted into a label and see unacceptable of people Just just trying to expose. People's horizons about what experiences in life is like as someone who is considered other this cultural sector. We do love his hot sometime so crazy about sensitivity that empathy and understanding your privilege even for myself I know employers in ways that other people out so I need to be aware of that. Big remove people So the tag is dot creating a spice marginalized voices in galleries a museum and I think one of the reasons I really love and respect what you do is because one of the things that makes me empowered everyday were is creating that space for other voices in Eugene So-so well See It's insane conglomerate dot home dot lock we'll obviously have linked to it through They are cast as well. I do think he's really The things like Exists because it's great coming and talking about how these issues affect US professionally and personally because there is that infection one of between the way that it does affect us it gets people on affects us is professional And having that space to talk about those issues and possibly think about solution for also having you know actually what. Are these fun things that people can do just ready? I take out in the world and really widen impact and I think you go into. I am very excited to the conference. And I'm really really hopeful. They'll still be this me to the twenty fifth Richie so final thoughts before we log off today What would you say would be the one thing you would love to say happen? After after Corona virus. What would you say it would be the first thing you would hope to happen in the museum? You can alcock you law library archive I look in the. Us can leverage. And I haven't thought about it So one of the things because of the way that my working has changed since being here being wet mall I've been trying to make the argument but there are times. When it's really important to me work from Nevsky more effective. What my job as sometimes. I don't feel very listen to a map. I'm hoping that host Corona Virus. The actually back voice that we will be date will be taken most seriously Dan. I had my one thing. I'm hoping I just generally. Accessibility is taken more seriously on a wider workforce for the fact that we were able to work for him so easily. Ed Seventy different ways by different people. You different ways of working so quickly remotely which is needed by so many other people who want to get into the workforce. Hopefully this proves to that to those big bosses. Whoever that might be thought wrote why hands possible and it can be more efficient. Sometimes I'm include more people in the conversation and in the work team yet exactly. I'd do it. The exact voluntarily could be done for boldly in some instances. Like maybe transcribing audiotapes will like beats. Eggs can be done remotely. Yeah creatine barracks us. I think a great thing that should come out of this. Yeah well positive. It's been great to speak to you. I'm hoping that our next conversation will be just six. I ain't gonNA interesting and the if anyone else has any topics they want us to discuss about. Being people of color working in the Glam sachse than please do email. Our email address is will also spoken. Toko Yahu Dot Com. You'll save again. Hopefully be well-spoken takings. Y'All hey dot com and you can find us on twitter and also will probably post links to other places that we are. Thank you very for listening the next time. Thank you honey.