Ep 6 | Rooster
Hey minion and we are excited to announce that we are releasing our own podcast series one fan interview the band in partnership with iheartradio. ARGH lady make sure to follow along each week as we choose one fan to come hang backstage and asks questions. Check out one fan to interview the band on the iheartradio APP Napa podcasts. Or wherever you get your chest. Murder in Oregon is a production of iheartradio Tim at video arcade and I thought he was the cutest most charming guy that hung out there and so pretty much right away he asked me out. Liz God love was tentative. ADDS girlfriend and mother of their son. They they met while they were both in high school and quickly spiraled into an intensely passionate dysfunctional and dangerous relationship. One that would end in a violent silence. Death I'm Lauren Pacheco and this is as murder in Oregon in our last episode. We learned that Tim Natividad also known as rooster was thought by many to be a likely suspect in the murder of Michael Frankie. We also learned earned his drug addiction propensity for violence and the twisted relationship. He had with Carrie Rothschild one in which he acted as a kind of broken guardian rescuing her from the drug fueled nightmare that was her mother's house and introducing her to a whole new nightmare of drug dealing dependence. It's and murder during that entire time. Natividad was also in a relationship with Liz. God love who started to see the evil behind is good looks almost immediately while like I said I thought he was handsome and pretty much our first date though. Oh He's showed a lot of jealousy we've doubled dated that night and he was super jealous of his own brother. His own brother was talking to me a little bit too. You much pissed him off. Started driving crazy in the car and yellow lettuce brother. Yeah this is my date. You have years back there. It really scared me but not enough to deny his attraction photos of Natividad show is strikingly handsome. Young man with dark hair and dark eyes didn't scare me away because Tim he always came over and called and he was just like over me and he was so nice in the the beginning you know he had the excuses. That is stupid. Brother China. Pick up on US data all the time and you know so. Put that to bed just sixteen and caught up in a crush lizzy Nord Red flags and refused to see the patterns. Natividad demonstrated from the beginning has abusive something that became much. More evident during the course of their relationship was young. Honestly the jealousy tend to display it on their first date continued and he quickly became possessive too young and inexperienced. Liz Mistook that intensity for I love. And when I would try to break up with him he wouldn't have it. No he would not have the no. I tried a few times and he would stab himself cut. His wrists was razors. Who Do all that in front of me? And then of course he tells me not to tell anyone but a lot of times my sister was there. Keep going to the bathroom and start cutting his wrists or I was at his mom and dad's house. He was in his bedroom cutting his wrists. He came to my work one evening and I noticed him in the lunchroom in the middle of the night it was really crowded and I noticed him watching me. Only God needs you get over here. You get downstairs now so I can fly downstairs after we get in his car he pulls out a big knife to start hacking himself in one squirting escorting everywhere saying he's going to kill me just stabbing himself so I get out of the car running and get hell place. com took him to the State Hospital for the night and he got up the next day. So that's how I lived with him. That's how it was. It was very scary aggressive but Natividad behavior wasn't just triggered by their relationship. This brother said that when they grew up in California early on he he was diagnosed schizophrenic. I don't know if that's true. I have no clue so the drugs could have been on drugs did it. And this was a similar pattern to it. Carry Rothschild experienced with Tim. His drug use led to Liz's drug use at Ed very young age. and Liz says it was spurred on by Thames own mother. His mom had turned US onto Chris. Tops speed early on like I think Seventeen than their little tiny pill that was like meth. It kept you up for hours and hours ours. Everybody was using them back then. I asked Liz about Tim's upbringing to gleam insight into his life and how he wound up in Oregon aside from drug use. Violent crimes seem to be part of this family. Like I say he did have his mom and Dad Six brothers and sisters. His Dad worked two jobs to support the family. The mother had a boyfriend my friend all the time on the side which disgusted and angered Tim. He didn't like of course his mom got into some serious trouble on California cornea and Tim like that. They had to move to Salem Oregon for her protection. She was in the witness protection program. Evidently she had delivered the money for the hit so she did some prison time for that. That's why they came to Oregon a few years into their violent and dysfunctional relationship. Liz found herself pregnant. And how did he react to that. He was happy he was fine with that. I was in shock. My God. Yeah he wanted onto eventually have another child with me. Her shock stemmed from the fact. She didn't think it was possible. In the first place he said there is no way shape or reform could ever have children. Never Tim said he was sterile. He was born with his intestines outside of stomach and he said that it had messed up his system for life that he was tested. And there's no way he could have children so he was happy when when I got pregnant signature and clearly anthony has his because I don't cheat on people and Anthony Looks a lot like his dad was Natividad. Faithful will no way no heck no. I learned later that he had a lot of girlfriends. I didn't know that see. I was at home taking care. The baby being a good girl while he was out selling drugs or whatever is doing I had no idea. He had other girlfriends mm-hmm after their son was born. Thames behavior continued downward spiral. Liz's sister. Becky was married to Vince. Taylor one of Tim's childhood friends who we spoke to in a previous episode. He was also a fellow member of the Kaiser Mafia the drug dealing in gang based in a nearby suburb of Salem. We lived right next door to each other. I lived above and they live below. It wasn't a quiet person. Everything was just going to hell after a while. You know and then you would start seeing Liz. Maybe had a bruise on her face or something like that you know at the time fence was living with his sister becky. Tim wouldn't allow Becky to come to my house. We lived in the same complex and he wouldn't allow me up there to visit a her. He just kept my family week for me. It was just odd if he leave and I needed food in the house I would sneak to store as fast as I could got. Caught wants pulling he. He pulled him at the same time. He was screaming at me. And it scared me. Sorry grabbed Anthony Aeneas star running toward my sister's house took a big set of keys through Sohar nailed me hard with the keys. My son in my arms sobbed and I think we call the police that night. I believe we always called the police because we went upstairs and lock the door and put furniture under the DOORKNOB. Kevin wouldn't come out eventually. Things got so bad that Liz her sister events made the decision to flee the state with her small son on. Here's fans I guarantee you know he's a lesson round. He was that far gone in his mind. You know he thought everybody everybody was a cop or trying to get him or trend. Woods questioning me I go what the hell are you doing. You know I mean things are weird. Wants to patch down to Mike Mike on your or anything like that. He was just he was gone. Tim Got extremely dangerous. We really dangerous holding knives to my throat. Certain Shokhin meow like the police were really. There's nothing they could do. I filed restraining orders. Tim would get locked up for the day and and get out. It'd be worse so they couldn't trust the restraining orders anymore. I called Tim's probation officer. I called the women's Crisis Center. They all said if you can and leave the state. So Vince in Becky said let's go. Let's get the heck out of there. We went to Colorado where we were or scared to death to be. They're looking for work. They're still afraid of Tim. Everyone was supposed to be quiet. Not till tomorrow as uh well one of my friends said. Tim went to my last place of employment and threatened her with the gun out on the front porch and said tell me where she's and she did so then my phone call was Tim's coming. He's coming to get you so forget scared. I may giggled today and it's just nerves some frustration it it just nothing was working. I didn't know what to do and less wasn't tape. It adds only target was threatening to kill me my family visits. I mean it was getting really really scary. Really bad. And he said he had killed the man who died just drugs and guns in his behavior. It was time for us to go. We had to go. We were scared for our lives. Married ears scared for her life and trapped by her fear. He'd harm her family. Liz returned to Thame Natividad behavior remained erratic back but it was after the time period of the Frankie murder. That things really hit a breaking point it was really super paranoid. Angry agree sad mad Alana crying and shaking and not letting me out of sight out letting me have have family over keeping the blinds shut and saying. Don't let anybody and do not answer the door if I'm here I'm not here. And he wanted to move to bend my house in those two weeks. He's telling me all this. He wanted to go to Hawaii so all these plans right away. Oh my God who was packing in the guns who's bringing guns in the house. A lot of machine guns pistols Hey everybody Noah Brown here executive producer of murdering Oregon and true crime is absolutely a passion of mine but occasionally you can get a little dark ark exploring all of these cases so an I need a break. Something of a mental pallet cleanser. I like to play a game. Called best means it is a challenging challenging puzzle problem solving game that also has a story. It engages your brain in a fun approachable way. It's fantastic for casual players of all ages. You can spend as much or as little time on the game as you'd like lately. I've been finding myself with a tiny bit of downtime needing to unwind and I'll play it maybe a couple of times a day I'm I think I'm at level twenty three but that's the thing it keeps updating adding new levels every single month so there's always new world to explore engage your brain with fun puzzles and collect tons of cute characters. Download this five star rated mobile puzzle game on the apple APP store and Google play for free. That's friends without Out The our best fiends Jay bell a former detective for the Marion County Sheriff's department we members responding to a call during that time I was on the road and the NRA your car and I was assigned to make contact Economic Beers apartment house lancaster. It was ended up being the girlfriend of Natividad also known as Rooster Street. Name came downstairs and she told me that all four retires lash. And I'm looking at this and I'm thinking man lie you know that's pretty good knife to cut through sidewalls of four tires and there's no blood heating cut himself that concept. No evidence around the ground is just like they walk up and stuff down. So that's like one pope job and then she tells me the thing that threw me. She says I think Natividad did slash retire as we told me. She said I think he did that. She says we've been fighting a lot. And then she goes on a little further. Tell me he's got stolen forty. I five automatic in apartments right now and so I said well is there way I can get it. She says no because it would burn me and it would. He didn't probably the killer so backed off on nope. No maybe I could find something off the street to maybe do a warrant to get undertake and as before we we know about the two that out anything to do with any any suspicion of Frankie in fact I think it was. It was just a few days after Franken was murdered. If I'm crack her by this point timms abuse physical verbal and extremely effective. I felt worthless. Tim would tell Anthony Year. Mother's bitch ear. Mother is no good. Your mother's going to heaven. Sue the types of things he would say to my son his son. And when you have a violent drug addict in front of you telling you in showing you believe do you believe it. With every ounce of anything you haven't things deteriorated Syria rated to the point where listener came to check on her waiting until Tim wasn't at home and decided to take anthony fearing for his safety and and I opened the door I saw was her lateran and she saw the drugs in the guns and the knives in danger and took me and she said you're not getting back. No Way I understood. I understood it but tim did not and responded about as well as you might expect so so she had for two weeks and I was getting a lot of pressure from tim to he need a tattoo. Set is going to kill me and take you out to California and hide them underground no body Freddie whatever find him again and he said if he had to he would kill my sister Karen and her husband to go get anthony. I did give him. I could tell that my soul was dislike. I wanted to be done forever anymore but I got a burst of energy and wanted to protect my family so I ran grabbed the gun off the bed and was headed out. The door headed out my door which had a bunch of locks on it and I couldn't get it unlocked. I was terrified. Knew it was gonNA kill me. Grab that Diem done. The incessant violence the abuse and threats against her family and her son finally pushed Liz over the edge and when I heard him come up behind me a turned. We said Liz. But I'll tell you I snapped so weird because I didn't care anymore. I was ready. I told God you know I'm ready is going to kill me I worry just just please please please let my sister. Karen be the best mom to Anthony. You know saying my prayers. I felt dead and just felt felt like so hollow worthless. It's over over over and I couldn't tell you what snapped how I snapped can tell you I remember picturing how he was gonNA shoot everybody at sisters and then take my little guy was going to be scared to death on a shootout. He said he'd kill her in. The cop the follows him them to California. It was Oh hell no so I turned into Sean and a bunch and I can't believe it to be honest with. I can't believe it happened. I can't believe I didn't die. I actually shot him and two weeks after Michael Frankie's murder Tim Natividad. Ed was dead at Liz's trial. Her attorneys admitted multiple records of domestic abuse into evidence and several love. The cops who arrested Tim during those disturbances showed up to testify. Also on the stand was Liz's neighbor. who heard the sounds of Tim's violent went and abusive behavior firsthand? Oh my neighbor next door to us. I never met her in my life. Listen to it all night and all morning so she was there which was a shock to me and no idea she was on the stand and said I heard him clearly beat her that night and until her who was going to kill her killer family. I heard the gunshots. I heard it all before the trial. Liz spent spent three months in jail. But compared to the hell she'd been trapped in it was almost an escape ultimately I was acquitted. Thank God it just all came together. I talked to myself I looked at the jury and I said you know my attorneys can help. Tell the story. This is is how I lived. This is my proof. The restraining orders the police officers my friends and family women's crisis center. I mean I did everything they gotta was acquitted or my God God. I remember that day I was so oh free but I did still cry for a year because Tim had to die over all this. I cried Craig per year although I had my son and I wanted to be stable and I tried to be strong and stable for him had to get it out of my system and I went to my priest and confessed that I shot and killed him to save my life and he said that God forgives me. I felt really good. I ran into several of Tim's family members after this and they helped me tight and told me you that they understood to me. Had some anger issues and drug problems so they didn't hate me mm-hmm but after Thames death pieces that connected his timeline to Frankie's killing began to fall into place for Liz. Starting with a large sum of money he'd supposedly come into soon after Frankie's murder which meshes with an earlier story from Greg Johnson and that Natividad had received a payoff after Frankie's death. Tell me where the money came from. But he did come into money. We later found out that he hid it in the fan of the bathroom. The apartment were Tim died. There was a story that Tim's brother got forty thousand dollars out of the bathroom bit of money and I didn't know if it was a rumor that incident would have happened while Liz was in prison awaiting trial. I didn't know sister. Karen is the one that clean my apartment out when I went to jail and carrying goes. It's so weird. Less the apartment manager came in was yell L.. Let me for taking part the bathroom bit and I said I didn't do it. You know you leave me alone. I'm not taking their permanent part. And getting Elizabeth things out of here. I I call him that. Large sum along with Tim's taunts about having killed a man continued to haunt Liz. We really wanted to figure era. Who killed? He said he had killed someone. I believe. It was at my attorney's office when we realized there were two people that died and Michael Franken was one of them. Uh I remember vaguely seeing that on the news a whole bunch you know the the higher up was murdered and you see the police tape. You know an the whole of attention to it but then something happened. That did catch attention. The release of the sketch known as the man and the pinstripe suit and then the composite during the came out the newspaper and on the news to me in mice. My sister carrying it looked like Tim. We were shocked and said Oh my God it looks like ten. Interestingly enough as we've touched upon earlier that sketch barely made it into the paper. While I was calling around around trying to get the picture that I heard the state police were circulating among corrections employs. Trying to figure out who this man in the pinstripe suit was you know why wouldn't they release it to the press. If it was of interest to the state police wouldn't release it. I called Penn and he refused to he said now I I said why he said because it's not any good. This is not very good. Did he elaborate on what he meant by not good known Not to me. I personally didn't care whether it was good or bad. I wanted to get it so I kept calling and finally got a copy from Vinton when you first saw that sketch. What were your thoughts? Wow what a great drawing. What's really good and in fact it had been done by Joyce Brian Brennan who was one of the top three police artists in the country? It was excellent you when it comes to meet quality makes a huge difference in texture and taste and even though it might be better for you any environment a lot of higher quality meat you find in. The grocery store is just too expensive for most people's budget thankfully there's butcher box much. Your box believes everyone deserves access to high quality. Humanely source meet at an affordable price. That's why each month but your box. Ships curated selection of the finest cuts. Right to your home. Choose from one hundred percent grass fed and finish Ashby's free range organic chicken heritage pork wild caught Alaskan salmon and sugar and Nitrate Free Bacon. No antibiotics no added hormones loans. Just meet the way meet should be this black Friday. You can get butcher boxes. Ultimate steak sampler. That's a total of eight free stakes plus twenty dollars off your first box walks. Just go to butcher box dot com slash iheart or use Promo Code Iheart at checkout. That's butcher box dot com slash iheart or use Promo Code Iheart a checkout God. Kevin was back in Florida trying to pursue his brother's case with long distance. Phone own calls. which in those days meant racking up thousands of dollars and phone bills he'd been told by Governor Goldschmidt to direct his questions to Dale Penn.? The the district attorney assigned to Michael's case but pen and Kevin didn't exactly get along. He was a sniveling. mealy mouth wouldn't answer a question directly when I say mealy mouth in the first meeting that we had was with my brother in two in. The governor the Governor's reception office outside of his official office and I was requesting the copy of the autopsy report and address that request Goldman and he's a is the main to ask ask pointing to Dale Pen and they'll pay goes on this mealy mouth game and and I said is that a no and and then he couldn't even say no no Kevin felt he was fighting uphill battle with pen from the beginning especially over getting Mike's Autopsy. You finally they agreed to give me a copy of the autopsy report and he sent it to me in Florida and was four pages that was probably eighty percent blacked out. Redacted basically said Mike Frankie described him and that he died stab wound. Everything else blacked out. It wasn't just the Middle Finger. It was a smirking while a kick in the ribs. Here you go sucker. I guess the you know he's thinking is I'm thirty two hundred miles away. What am I gonNA do? But Kevin and his older brother Pat refused to to settle for the redacted report. They wouldn't settle for anything less than the complete autopsy even if they had to fight for. It here's Phil Show. They EH hired a lawyer. In Salem. Steve Classic has been with them. All this time to sue state officials to get an unredacted copy of the autopsy which which under Mara they were entitled to back to Kevin. We did finally get a full copy of the report but it was through through having to sue the state of Oregon and all the individuals involved including Dale Pin and the Government Goldschmidt and with peanut them to bring him into court to justify withholding the autopsy. Report when it's in the Oregon State Law it's called the Brady bill that the members of fame player entitled to a full copy of the autopsy report and any other medical information to have the district attorney and the head of the State both denying what's written into the law of the state of Oregon into the constitution and to have them plumped at just the arrogance of those fucking bastards is what grips me to this day. How could they? How dare just flaunting their authority Kevin Recalls the day? They finally received the report. We were Steve Classics Office. Three forty one St Street downtown Salem Oregon just a few blocks from the courthouse and Steve did picked above. But I guess from Dale Penn's office brought back to the office where bad my were waiting flown in for the Asian. Here's pat stay on getting the unredacted unredacted version. Or you're almost to the day I was up here and I got the full copy of took that to New York and set with Dr Michael Michael Baden who became famous years later the Oj Simpson case and he read the thing that got us calculator out and he told me that Mike probably didn't love more than about six six minutes that he was fully conscious about two minutes and losing consciousness after two minutes the because of the severity of the wound the nature of the wound that he he would not have survived even if he'd been in hospital it was through and through just destroyed or part of his heart during the time the family was fighting for the autopsy they were also getting numerous twisted and anonymous tips claiming that Mike had been mutilated or murdered by ritualistic torture that was months before they finally confirmed that there had been no ritual type it was purely defensive defensive wounds and attack ones and no other signs of mutilation but it took shit six months to get that so you're living with these movies in your mind the Trojans the feed fire that you don't want letting the first place so that was the first thing that I wanted out of the whole thing was to verify that Dale tell me the truth when he says there's snow mutilation because del pin had a tendency to lie and then to be able to identify the nature number and location of the ones and how the entry wounds made my sort of an angle and in part of the autopsy reported. There isn't mentioned of what you see when you see did the autopsy photos and there's obviously a picture that shows that make was identified. He got a pretty good wag the head the photos were the worse. Because I knew mice brains scenario running it a million miles an hour is he's bleeding out known as thinking this gamely that's Sharing the unredacted autopsy and photos of Mike with their parents was heartbreaking for the brothers seen scene two people in more pain in my life hurt. Have worried about my kids. That scares me if I ever had to get to. That I'd probably put a bullet my head And then adding the insult that they were only shared with Mike's Family under duress and with the threat when they were given this unredacted copy they were warned not to let it leak. If it leaked they would be prosecuted. That was the atmosphere at the time. That's incredible so. Pat Takes the autopsy back to Kansas City and shows it to the old man and they look look at it. They have questions since Dale pennant assured them that they'd they'd run it by the FBI. The old man called someone he knew. Clarence Clarence Kelly former director of the FBI who had also been chief of police in Kansas City and asked him about it and Kelly came back and said no they never talked to us. And that's when the old man's world sort of fell apart. He said they've been lying to us. They've been lying to us. It was as if not only killed his son. They sort of killed his faith in how things work out how the world works and he was crushed so dale ten. Uh told Michael Frankie's father that he had run the autopsy past the FBI and that never happened. That's what he found out. Yeah he apologized to me. said they'll pins been lying to me. He's been lying to us and it crushed. My Dad that that was a professional is the greatest generation. Thirty years in the army colonel. Full bird colonel is a man that put his trusted God and country and could not believe and I think he felt that. I was being in disrespectful when I was questioning authority. He was sad that I was right. Let's go back to revisit. The resistance to releasing the sketch of the man in the pinstripe suit which now in light of the autopsy and FBI issue seems more noteworthy. Why do you think you were met with resistance? That's another big puzzle here but it's such a strange inge place for them to lie. Sometimes you you have to figure out what's going on by the lies. They tell him that that that was definitely ally on pens part. It's almost as they were afraid that someone would see that sketch and recognize the person. Yeah that's about the only thing you can conclude Kevin Agrees bitched at him about not releasing the picture I said why won't you release it. He says it looks just looks like a lot of people. No and that's the problem. That was the problem when it came out. I looked at it and no. It doesn't look like a lot of people bits. Let's is certainly eliminates a lot of people and these are the rain and fills column was horrible. It was like a one inch facts from thirty years ago which you know like doing little pencil Batson thank so everybody that saw the column says it looks like Shit but but they were forced to put at the real one and once people. Well you've seen the real one looks like a photograph and that's when Liz and her sister stir saw the drawing of the man in the pinstripe suit. It looks like Tim Native at it did to me and my sister immediately immediately the woman who had lived with Natividad believes he was the man in the pinstripe suit. The rest is really nice. Sometimes he loved to dress really nice. It was coming together for me. Started coming together okay. Tim's claiming to have a lot of money. He became so paranoid and violent worse than ever before started collecting. Dot's for myself so liz went to the police. It's hard to remember exactly but I do recall frustration. Gratien guys I think Tim Kill Michael Franken. Need you to look into it. Tim always carried a knife. Tim had a huge knife collection action. Tim was violent. Tim told me he killed somebody. I think it's Michael Look at this composite dried. And how did the police react to to this bombshell. They laughed and said do. Can't convict a dead man. There's nothing we can do here. That seems a pretty odd response from the police particularly securely sense it could have led to the truth. Here's PAT steak longer than why was on. The more chance was whole thing. You're going to blow up in their face Komo or go away. And the easiest way to end the investigation into Michael Frankie's murder And make the whole thing go away find someone to pin the murder on a patsy On the next murder and Oregon an unlikely suspect is arrested. Saudi so many other folks that are probably. It's just didn't make sense and charged with the murder of Michael Frankie. Mike Kieron's a convict from the Idaho State Penitentiary attention claims Frank Gable told him he killed Frankie during a car burglary blindsiding everyone including Frank Gable. I walk into a complicated drug ring and really don't know how complicated it was. Until now murdering Oregon's hosted by Lauren Bright Pacheco and Phil Stanford executive producers are Noah Brown Lauren by Chico and Phil Stanford Supervising Producer and lead editor. Is Taylor chicane. Sound design by tristen McNeil story editing by marital written by Phil Stanford Matt Riddle and Lauren. Bright Pacheco music written and performed by the diamond street players and mixed by Taylor's Aucoin with music supervision by Nicole Brown additional music by tristen McNeil archival elements courtesy of K. G. W. in Portland Oregon the station behind behind the podcast urged to kill murdering Oregon. This production of iheartradio I'm Zoey Deutch. I'm Amanda Seals. Hey there I'm Bellamy young and today I'm GonNa talk about what I wore when I ought to for scandal. Welcome to what I wear when production of Glamour and iheartradio. I'm your host host Perry Samuelson each week. I'm sitting down with a woman. I find fascinating to talk about what she wore during a pivotal moment in her life. Listen to what were when on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts.