Hour 2: Joel Anderson on Kwame Brown
This is the dan le batard. Show with to spot casts. Goldie just tweeted out dreger. And that's what you do. It's playoff time told you though is going to happen is desperate reported it. Roy you are. I told you so hockey guy. All of a sudden. I've never seen either bold prediction saying they were going to replace bob and go to their second number one. But it's not just that it's roy is at every. Turn telling us wherever it is that we're commenting on hockey. I told you that. I told you that. From my perch of stealing chips all season from the panthers in the media area stealing all sees unfairly framed. You talk liberally. I I'm sorry actually. Did it in front of everybody to go box that you stop your buckets filled with meatloaf from the media. Dining a little strange. I think It's not a denial. When did you become when did you become mindset. Tell me about the mindset of the team when randy molar is on and also just looking at some of these things and hitting us over the head with. I told you so because you don't listen. That's why you have them but kucherov all season back you up on that roy. Mike ryan has been telling us that it's about time we start a dialogue about carter verhaeghe and i have heard that but roy did tell us the tire year. That kucherov was coming back. And i was still shocked when i saw gujar up on my television screen. I'm unclear how a guy can go an entire season without playing bullshit and and be so good upon arrival that he clearly helps win these rested. Because he's been skating and training with a team of the year but he hasn't played you think. Oh you guys think it's easy the stamina whether you're training or not you think it's easy to recreate hockey playoffs. Speed and physicality when you're kucherov. Yeah he's been playing with stamkos. Those guys for year everytime basketball players come back from a year layoff whether they have training camp or practice or not. If you lay out for a year the speed of stuff tends to be too fast and there is no speed faster than the speed and hockey. So i think we're underestimating the size of the achievement. That guy dominated an image playoff game without playing all sees. If you know anything about kucherov has always ready. I mean the shot is always fast. It's always placed well couture off was born for these moments ago. I don't know what that means. Put it on the pole guillermo at lebatardshow because i got a lot of waggled sausage fingers at me there. If you know any you know if you know anything about anything is kucherov always going to be ready or whatever the whatever you sass. Roy i mean is not even a restless is resting. I mean we're dealing with a whole bunch of players that have played an entire season fifty six game season. They're injured in last game. He's hurt. We know that off the bat but draws rested. He's going to be fascinated everybody out there fresh as daisies. Dano that's what the bolts come into this series as and it's a tough one for the the florida panthers. I'm kind of worried about today's game. But i still expect a long series. Our told you so must win tonight as most when it is the most when. You've got me rooting now for them to lose just because i think they call it takes. I mean we wanna win hockey game. They're good hockey team. And i'm not gonna just sit here and say that they can't come back from. Oh too because you guys say so. I'll the rope. I'm only saying roy saying it. I mean it's a must win tonight. All the rats are going to be jumping ship here when we're down to and just dan and megan be there holding the rope. I'm not jumping ship at all. Under saying is a must win. You wanna go to tamp down. Oh to if you say it's a month if you say it's a must win and they go down. Oh to you have jumped ship because you don't think they can win anymore because you've already said you have jumped ship. If you keep saying zoeller they lose tonight. Yes that is roy. Is that what you're saying. The series is over if they lose tonight no because again. I'm of the mindset. That every playoff game is a must win tonight. Literally right in. It is literally a must win to literally took a must win. It's the opposite of literally a must win. It's the opposite of that. It's not a must win. What do you mean these literally a must win and lose and they win the next four games and it's not a muslim anymore joel anderson. I'm sorry introduce you to this as if this is what we're talking about. I bet y'all thinks it's a month way. Sign a writer. this man says someone i just. I'm embarrassed by what we're talking about here as he comes in. Because i want to talk about this kwami brown story in a way. I find a lot of it interesting but go ahead and give me your opinion on whether or not the panthers against the lightning tonight if the panthers down to is tonight a must win who. That's tough man all florida up to. Yeah you can't really go down. Oh to act now. Like eighty team loses a series like eighty percent of the time. If they go down two or something like that. That seems very much. Wish to me dude. I didn't mean to go against. That's okay welcome. I'm just telling you. I am now officially rooting against the panthers tonight. Now you told you. I mean because you guys are being asinine. But the reason i wanted to talk to joel anderson. There was a number and thank you for making time for us. Check out his work at slate but there were a number of things here that were interesting but i defer to you hear what as you saw this play out and the whole thing around kwami brown having lost his patients with everything after a lifetime of people laughing at him I feel bad for him but he sounds like a man who's got nothing left to lose and he came at. He came at these guys in a way that i have not seen an athlete. Go this personally before publicly. I can't remember off the top of my head. Yes really tough I've you know. I've been following kwami. Maybe for the last year. So because i reached out soon for a story last year. And i've been sort of watching his youtube feed and his social media feeds and this is very much in keeping with who he is now. He is a very folksy dude. A very smart guy in a very angry. And i think it was really interesting to see everybody finally get familia with the quami brown that i've been you know watching for the last year. He's been hiding in plain sight. He's had this instagram account and has been talking about players. He's been talking about black lives matter. He's been talking about all of this stuff. If finally got on the radar. I think in some wings. He's really happy about it. I think he's excited to have retention and people finally hear his. His version of vince has for many years. The narrative has been the one that michael jordan was. Put up small hands and work hard. He was sort of a bust I think that he's finally sort of saving this opportunity for people to hang on his every word one of the things. That made you wince. Because it's a man unhinged. Or yeah. I mean i mean this is a lot of like really weird talk about beta males and you know. This dude is a female and you know at what does i will say. There was one funny story he told about gilbert arenas getting held up like little lady at the club and i thought that was funny but You know that yeah that kinda stuff you know he just is very like jordan peterson You know intellectual dark web adjacent type. Talk that you know you know. It's sort of out of step with the current moment. But he's probably the very first presidential you. He is quote not woke. So this is a lot of that kind of stuff. You could just see the ok. This anger Justified in some ways in directed stacking matt barnes and gilbert arenas they did also is being fueled bus among other things in of the difficulties. He's had in his life. One other things well You know you've heard him talk a little bit about how he felt. He didn't get a fair shake Like michael jordan Did not give him a fair shake but He got the basically michael jordan resented him within a couple of weeks. Which meant you know one thing to keep him out about kwami brown man as he had a very very difficult life man he's from the coast georgia brunswick writer you know kind of the very small core black part of the coast You know his oldest brother is in prison right now. Selling crack another brother has been in prison for shooting somebody. A couple of brothers had difficulties the blah. His father is imprisoned now for murdering somebody in nineteen ninety His mother came under very difficult circumstances. Now obviously kwami is a person through you know. His no work and accomplishment got his mother about it that very difficult situation to grow ambit. Those this a lot of pain and a lot of Just a lot of disappointment in his lights in that you know the nba. Although he he'll tell you. Hey i got paid. I got my mother out of this very difficult situation. It's clear that like he's scarred a lot of the stuff that he had to do with coming up. So let's go through some of the specifics here on what it is that he did going after barnes on derek fisher on the idea that derek fisher has stolen barnes's family. We've seen some of the reporting on this but you do not hear this very often this way from a guy especially who's been largely silent for years and taking this beating People laughing at him what he did there. What did you think of that. Oh i mean that's obviously beyond the pale you so we all have followed nba. We've heard those situations adult. Wanna bring up pity players. But i think we've heard of situations where teammates at that sort of situation. Where a guy gets his his girlfriend or wife stolen by another teammate. Or the some sort of fight on a team and it's related to a woman that the dating but that was like one of those things that was sort of beyond the pale it. It's really interesting because it's not like matt. Barnes was due to said anything right like if you watch the video from that all in the smoke video the interview with gilbert arenas mabaas is not the one that was egging this stuff for him so it just sort of would that come from. Why did you go after him. Why did you when you went after him. Why did you go after him so personally. Because it's not like matt. Barnes was the one that was driving I guess for lack of a better time to talk about warm. When he comes after stephen jackson with you by women and and bags i know about bags. What's he doing there. And while getting a second with you what's the retaliation by these guys going to be because they're not gonna they're not gonna eat all of that they don't well okay. I don't think they're gonna eat it. I think they're going to do is going to sort of hampton inn. Play around with you to make a joke of it. Because they know that ultimately they've got bigger platform and there's really no need to respond to kwami they know they'd like the new cycle of change. They'll still have this. Show on showtime matt. Barnes justice if. He's getting a sitcom made about his life like they've won. They've wanted the media game. they're really good at. It is really not even going back and forth with them. But you know i think one thing that you know. When people hear him going at stephen jackson out you know they did play together for a season charlotte Two thousand and two thousand eleven season and so they were teammates and kwami goes a little bit and see. Stephen jackson quit on the team because they traded gerald wallace. But what i found really interesting is the piece of it. You know that. Stephen jackson sort of publicly affiliated with the black lives matter not necessarily the organization but the movement by virtue of the fact that he was cousins with george floyd well if you watch the videos and his social media stuff. He's not a fan of blackouts batter. He makes it clear over and over again. And if you review a lot of that stuff you'll be that he's just not a fan of black lives marriage so I think that was also opening for him. There would stephen jackson soda. Get that in and stick that in And i think that's what some of that is coming from. One of my i to do with gilbert arenas want barnes not black enough. What am i to do with what he's doing and saying hey don't come after a black man as black men. I think that it is fair for him to say that you guys are humiliating me long after the expiration date on that stuff. This is so long ago. None of us had elite anymore. Why am i joked. And so he's using the most personal Some some most incendiary comments that you can make about a black man. No collina white dude a calling him a handmaiden for you know white people essentially right and so i think he does see gilbert. And if you listen to go with me gilbert especially if you're a country dude from georgia you had dude like gilbert whose from the l. a. area california and i'm from the south. You know you just kind think a certain way about california guys. As i think he's just sort of poking gilbert at that stuff that he's trying to say will he grew up around white guys and so he's not really down for the cause and let me tell you how he you know Under my value in you know denied me an opportunity to really cash in his free agent. Is i think that's a lotta with that. Is that you know he. He saw gilbert arenas working with his aides and his team to deny him the money that he thought he deserved in free agency. And so he's like you working for those white guys who tried to deny a black. A black man does money so clearly. You're working with those white guys. You know dmed. Barnes status clearly about him being skinned that he just thinks you want to tee off on a dude because he's light skinned and that's a very diabetes That's a very nice approach to things but That's what i meant. When i said you know farmers just a little bit out of step with this moment of but clearly he doesn't care. There are some points in here. Where i'm like. Well he's not wrong and one of the points is he probably was more professional than all three of those guys. I don't know maybe barnes was more professional but just in terms of he might be a bus but being a pro and not having things on his resume where people beyond softer bust. You didn't hear a lot of people saying that kwami brown actually wasn't trying to be professional and kept his mouth shut across many many years on this stuff. This is just recent where the anger boils over. Yeah absolutely lot of a lot of stuff man. And i mean the thing is he came into the league in a really unfortunate time like he. He comes back to a very disorganized. Mess of front office as the wizards You know they were sort of caught between trying to win now with michael jordan or build around him as the future and ultimately because kwami was not ready when he came into the league. They didn't give him the opportunity to showcase himself. And so he was sorta slided into this bus label for so many years. But you're right. I mean we played in the league for twelve years. He played for multiple teams. He played with koby. He played for michael jordan again when he went to charlotte. That was michael jordan's first year is the majority owner for the podcast. So it's not if michael jordan didn't like kwami is much. Is people think that he did. Then he would have never bought into the bobcats clearly kwami with a more effective player that people give credit for it you know. He said you know you saw them screens. I was certain know. I mean screams matter you know at least an old. It'd be like each set screened being a tough dude doing some of the stuff that doesn't necessarily show up in the box score Some of the stuff. That kwami brown did. And i think he does have a point like e had honorable career. The only reason did it seem to measure up is because he was the number one pick only averaged sixty six but over the course of his career to win it for our friends over at draftkings. I love them. I lived there. My mail is sent to draft gangs. It's playoff time big stakes bigger promotions. It's time to hammer the over at scores some cash. Oh do i love cash draftkings. Sportsbook is giving you a chance to lower the over under on a featured playoff game all players who place a bet on the featured basketball game. We'll have a hand in lowering the over under on the game. How about that for every fifteen hundred players who bet the over on the select game the over under or drop by one point. It's incredible every better who hammers the over in the future. Game helps to lower the game's over under the best part. Is that even as the live lowers. The odds remain at even money. That's right you could double your money by hammering the over data talk radio drafting sportsbook app. Now use promo code dan. When you sign up to hammer the over for every fifteen hundred people that bet the over in the future game the line will decrease by one point. Yes this is your chance to improve the odds of the over hitting so tell your friends and family tell everyone. This is a team effort. Hammer the over at improve your odds of doubling your money. That's promo code dan. For a limited time. Only at draftkings sportsbook must be twenty one or older new jersey. Indiana or pennsylvania only restrictions apply. Max twenty five dollar wager. One per customer offer ends may twenty third two thousand twenty one c draftkings dot com slash sportsbook for details gambling problem. Call one eight hundred gambler or in indiana one eight hundred nine with it. Let's play some of this better sound because there's a lot of it but i haven't heard going at an athlete this way where he goes at barnes barnes who was sitting this out. He goes barnes with the most personal of details. Which is how derek fisher. Publicly was in the home of barnes and he sings about it and makes it super personal with the idea that barnes is raising or. I'm sorry that fisher is raising the kids of matt barnes. You run your mouth talking about somebody like me. You need to stop what i'm told you. Don't step in their goddamn quick sample. i don't gotta lie. make up. she d- only joke. You get more win this basketball joke go run out you. Keep hitting new. Basketball jokes are keep hitting you know. Real solvay okay life. Now which one did like you. You'll granddaddy that was black. Your granddad our white causes isn't deep issues. you did. You can understand what the gop trying to say. Then in america right now white people are scared to talk about black people right now as a home and you know camera every day talking about blackmail you want to sit here and make look a certain white one saw an joe some physio done open your derek pearson joe key do you try some gas. Pick them up the only joke. You got his about basketball. I got a joke about your life. Talk the talk about. What is their fisher is a mentor but a stepdad. It a what could he your mentor to you. And this went was sent there and got your donets to say so kasey bertoni nichols no. I'm going to say so. I ain't got no big pie k. You responded to that you you stupid mother jane earn. Thank you joel. The resentment the hissing rage. In that. Made me wince. When i when i heard it i'm like oh my god. This guy is unleashing fifteen years of stop laughing at me. I'm gonna cut all your heads off. Because the level of anger and resentment. There is not something. I've seen publicly vocally from an athlete. I don't think ever there. I was so terrified. Who's gonna say something. inappropriate. About rachel nichols and outside. Please move past this moment. i. I didn't know where he was going with. A with a thank god he got out of that thing terrible about her but yeah man i mean that's just not the stuff that people make you know go Normally that sort of stuff that get you know you say when you're ready to fight and i think that you know we were sorted. Appoint with it's clear. The quami brown wants to do something or he actually back up for second. This is matt arms when he attacked derek fisher and that story came out that actually sort of boost boosted the perception of matt bars like oh memoirs released. Dude you will come fight. You know what i'm saying like. He'll drive ninety miles away to come fight you over his pride in over his woman or whatever and kwami brown did was actually take the steam out of that and make him look like a clown coward or something you know like the thing that that we use. We talk about met bars. Is that dude. He will come. Fight you calm. Calming brown actually turned against him In a way. And so. I guess that was the best way that he could think of to diminish barnes and judging from the way the people of respondents it worked Yeah just mad. Like i said quoting brown man. He's just a really he's he's really hurt and he's lashing out and that's sort of stuff that you just have never heard before like you said i mean i guess i haven't been people have been talking shit about me for the last year so if i if i've been in that situation maybe finally given the opportunity to speak on something like that. Maybe i would respond in the same way. I would hope not. But you'd hope that you you that some of the anger would diminish over time but clearly requirements has a. Do you wonder if he's okay. Yes very much so I mean man. Salt lake watching these videos like the last year and he looks really lonely. Really angry really sad like it didn't seem like he has very great relationships with his children. The mother of his children by reps like seeing that keeps coming up over and over again. It actually would think he steven jackson so to be able to bond over that. Because if you watch stephen jackson's videos like that's one another one of the things he's dislike yo on by really you know. Teach all always upset at the mother of his children. So you would think high gravy they would have that bond over but duck but kwami is really really In a in a weird sad place and You know like. I just watch this unfold over the last year and just kind kinda hope you know. Somebody can help him or did he. Neto do with this anger in a more productive way. Like which isn't to say that he doesn't have a right to defend him so but it just seems like a dude who sort of on the edge and some hopefully somebody kinda help real back from that joel. The reason that i wrestled with even delving into all of this as subject matter. Because i know how good the content is and i know how interesting it is but i'm worried about where all of that can actually escalate to because kwami brown is so fed up that i'm hearing him talk like i've never heard an athlete talk publicly. He's going after two guys specifically with their street credibility and what. You're talking about with stephen jackson when his public incidents and private incidents have been like he comes from dark hard place and he runs that dark hard place. And as all of this escalades. Maybe stephen jackson stays professional baby. Some of the people that stephen jackson knows don't have time for any of this and so i see escalating. I'm like this can end up in a really bad place for a lot of people because you never see this play out in public. No matter how many professional wrestling elements we can have in soap opera stuff when fiddle around with it right. I mean matt. Barnes and stephen jackson made their names on not necessarily have the best discretion when it comes to picking and choosing their fights right And we didn't know this about kwami. The quami might be that same guy but like the stories that have emerged even gillard ubad arenas talk about. Hey you know. I've seen palm fight dudes bar and jump on people's heads and beat people up. I don't want us problems. So it's like three very intense combustible people all have a beef with each other and yeah you just hope that. Maybe there's a way that they can walk some of this back. maybe they. They could invite him on their podcast in a much more calm fashion and they can just talk this out but it doesn't seem like that doesn't as leader suit. But i would say this. That stephen jackson a matt barnes like they did respond to kwami browns fire with fire and to me. That indicates don't either they. They know the quami is sort of a loose cannon or they noted themselves like we have nothing to gain by engaging him on this level and this new cycle will pass. And we'll go back to our show and our showtime show and we'll be fine so it looks like that's the way the handle on it. But i mean kwami still probably go hop on g love day and hop on youtube. It doesn't seem that he's done with them yet. It would be great if he can actually fashion some sort of media career off of their backs because they they got at least partially where they are. Because they're not afraid of anything. I think gilbert has already walked it all back. Gilbert has run away from all of this this is not this is not his environment. He does not want this fight. I mean he said it. He's he said it inquiry browns post. He's like i want no problem. I want no smoke with this guy. And i mean it's it's understandable again. Courtney browne man key he comes from a very tough family man. I mean again. I listed two of his brothers currently imprisoned his father's in prison a couple of his other brothers who've had trouble with the law and with fighting and all of this stuff so by now man brown. He'll bring you those problems. Gilbert arenas knows that so it's not a surprise that he's trying to you know wretched down the temperature right now so you didn't have to get into this joan. I want you to think about what we're talking about. The only guy we know to have left the league because the gun in the locker room who pulled off. I don't know if he's still in jail. But a guy who made the first okay so that guy wants. No part of is happening here. The guy who it was a gold gun was it not the only guy associated with a gold gun and then getting suspended because after the gold gun. He does finger guns in line. He's like nope. I'm just a gesture here. Thanks i'm out. I'll be like. I said we were told. Pick the good you know saying virus but yet met i mean again quelling brown low key. Tough guy man. I mean he's known for beating up people again if you look at his social media he's a gun collector Subdued who's very comfortable with guns. You know he's at there's a. There's a pitcher on his instagram. I'm sure you've got it. Like is hot tub. He's got a bottle of wine in a gun right there on the edge of the tub so they i mean. Quality browbeat is not to be trifled with and people that all learning together at the same time. Uber just happened to know a little bit before all that Which gilbert arenas fought we can say a lot of things about him but he's not a dumb man of the points that he made one of them. That i thought was good. He say look. You can call me a bus and laugh at me but like i mean a lot of millions of dollars doing this and you can turn me into joke but i was a professional and plate for twelve years in the league. What were the points. He was making where you're like. Yeah you gotta give him that one. Oh i think he made a great point about that yes. He played in the lead for twelve years on had carved out a fairly solid career. United put up. Decent numbers was not known as basically a plus player and found that he was. There wasn't a star but if he wasn't a number one pick nobody would've ever complained about that. I think he was also right about the fact that when he came to the wizards that michael jordan didn't really Michael jordan wanted him but like once he got there. It was clear that it wasn't gonna be a good fit and that he wanted to trade him And that would happen to me is that he was caught up in this battle between april. Who was the majority owner of the wizards at the time. And in michael jordan and doug collins and doug collins michael jordan did not have a lot of effects of kwami brown they got lazy than have work ethic dotted. He bad hands That he was very smart about the game and all those things could be true right but he was a kid just out of high school a small georgia high school where basically he could physically dominate those guys. He did not have to learn the game. And so i think the you know he's he's right about the sector. He just sort of went into a very bad situation and that sort of determined the course of his career rbis career that he didn't get developed in the same way that he didn't get to build confidence in the same way and so You know he makes some very good points about that. But again i think is the most telling him about climbing browns careers that for all the jokes that people say about him being a bust not living up small hands all that sorta stuff by george brought him back again. Michael jordan brought back to the charlotte bobcats and if michael jordan the guide. That is the reason that we talk about. Kwami brown at a terms of be huckabee sort of basketball failure. If michael brown was still am sorry. If michael jordan could still found bowden and kwame brown a decade into his career finishes say something and we should really reconsider what we think about kwami brown basketball player and think about it less about would. His performance was relegated to other number one picks his performance was relative to other dudes who've just been into mba. And there's no shame and playing in the league for twelve years in pulling putting your mom into retirement and to a nice home liked by that standard and kwami. Brad is absolutely right. He is a success. Not a bust. Listening to kwami. There was a lot of rage there. It seemed like i. I wonder if you were say close to him. If you were a friend Would you be worried enough to lend council and talk to him about what he's doing. Moving forward yeah hamid well. So i'm of two minds of it. Quality brown is getting a lot of attention. people are paying listening to him. Talk for the first time ever like i. Even when he was in league people would not seeing him out. for interviews. Whatever so in some ways maybe. This is good for his career. This gives him another another platform to talk about things that he wants to talk about. But if i were his friend. I would just hope talk about like look. You can talk about these guys but like stop escalating. It like don't would you with. How do you want this to end. I guess is what i would ask him the Like where do you. Where do you see this going like. You wanna fight. You actually want to fight. Met bones and steven jackson think you want wanna do that too. Oh won bin or bring you brother. I mean while not forties now so I think i would just tell them. It's like maybe you know you can make you make some good points in a lot of people arriving with a lot of people right now on show social media surprisingly the browns fans at like you know what quantity brad is making some very good points about The way we talk about him over the years. But it's maybe you could take just a little bit of the anger out of it and it might even appeal to more people than it might get some more staying power. I find it fascinating. The what he's doing from every angle because a guy with nothing to lose is going at guys who have that podcast at least in part because they're the street credibility guys from that sport all alley guys and they might not have anything to gain by beefing down there but it also seems like they wouldn't want those problems and when the hardest guys are lending you that joe like i know i'm talking in these ridiculous mythological terms in that respect if these guys are afraid when he was saying you don't want all the smoke have me on the podcast. If they don't take advantage of that because they want to run scared. I'd prefer that they have him on and everyone just sort of talk. Nice and be like okay. We all understand each other. And by moment because i i don't think i think it's embarrassing for the same reasons that it's interesting like all of this happening. To all of them is just the sm- all of them are allowing us to look into their lives. That has to be unpleasant for them. Yeah i mean i. I do think that they should extend that invitation to kwami to to talk this out i mean. Don't you think that has to think that's the way this sort of has to end the seniors. Though i think that they need to have a moderator like i don't think he can just be those three people on stage talk it out because i don't know how well it would go but if they had a moderator and i think it would be good for them to talk out the issues because i mean to be honest man i mean they. Don't i mean if you look at the original interview now. Stephen jackson did like make fun of kwami. He's the one that sort of got that going right. Kilby reince was not trying to talk shit about kwame brown. You know what i'm saying. It's definitely wasn't this is mostly for them for the most part. This is a stephen jackson his brown thing so it seems like they should be able to talk this out in a way. That doesn't end with pool. Cues and people get beat up and you know dared fisher having to respond to stuff. You don't like it just seems like there's a way that they can. They reached some sort of a piece here And i think that. That's what you like stephen jackson and matt barnes will ultimately do because it is very clear at least from the early response. They don't want to fight this. Do and why i mean why would you. Why would you wanna to joel. I'm not overstating right. I don't mean to stephen jackson. I don't even associate him with punching the customers. I associate him out side. The strip club firing. What kind of gun was it. He was firing in the air and got suspended for how long because somebody tried to run him over with a car you're right. It was a symbiotic weapon. Parking lot of indianapolis strip club. If i'm if i'm not and yet he fired up man stephen jackson ben i mean. He's made a reputation as one of the hardest. Do run our test. You know when when he was known as ron says said young. He's a real dude. You know like. He has allowed respect for stephen jackson raw test. One of those you have one of the toughest dudes in the history of the lead. So i mean. Stephen jackson has a fetus. But i i. Don't i don't think i mean the weight classes for reason man you know what i'm saying aquatic six foot. Eleven to fifty. You know no matter. How tough stephen jackson is. I don't think that's a fine. I know but i know but take the do rag off pull your pants up being a grown man. The guy who's been at the side on. George floyd be a real man. I don't think that that's going to land on stephen jackson and away the dozen touches pride. Oh yeah but you know again. That's see that's the piece of it that is we're kwami browns. Anti black lives matter. Stance is coming through like he really resist. black lives. matter is not a fan of the movement not the organization the movement. I don't know what he thinks about the organization so but the movement he's not a fan of it and this is his way to take a shot at stevens accent. I think that he thinks to stephen. Jaksa is fake I think. I think that's a real criticism that he has that. He thinks that he's not worthy of being considered a prominent activist. And that's when he sort of taking a shot at their he may. He may accidentally not like steven jackson. You may have legitimate reasons for it. But black lives matter thing. I think is was animated. His anchor their wittingham. What do you have for me here. Because i did see. Just one sparkle in your eye in the middle of all of this interesting stuff as i hog this interview because i find this subject matter super interesting. I saw your eyes sparkle. Why was that. Because he pronounce the word bonafides commonly known as bonafides as bona fetus energy a christian university the harvard at the south africa scored over seven hundred verbal part of sat. Both guys cutting it up came over the intellectual conversation. Thank you thank you for having me on just so you know coach q down streaker in so. It's a big one. I mean win.