What Nobody Wants to Hear about Content Marketing


Rainmaker? FM? This podcast is brought to you by copy blogger dot com. Words that work build your online thority with powerfully effective content marketing, get superior content marketing education, so you can build a remarkable online presence. Head offered a copy blogger dot com to learn more that's copy blogger dot com. Hey there. It is excellent to see again. Welcome back to copy blogger FM, the content marketing podcast copy. Copy wonder FM is about emerging content marketing trends, interesting disasters and enduring best practices along with the occasional. My name is Sonia Simone, and I am a co founder and the chief on tent officer for Cuffy blogger media. He can get additional writing as well as a complete archived podcast by pointing your browser to remarkable communication dot com. And I am here today with our beloved one time colleague still colleagues still beloved Robert, Bruce who a couple years back, I guess at this point transitioned out of working with us, everyday cubby blogger and over to being the VP of marketing for rainmaker digital services, which is our sister company. So Robert is just a pleasure to talk with you again. I agree. So it's been way too long. And thanks for thanks for having me on. You know, I am. I was wondering number one if you're gonna say old friend or colleague. Get offense fast. I also want to know what? Interesting disasters are all about like that. I need to do more interesting disasters. Yeah. Just total. You know the fail. Fill army of marketing. We get into that. All right. What would we'll talk a little bit in in a way about that today because we're going to talk about we're gonna talk about something that am I experiencing your experience. No people like hearing or want to hear about content marketing about marketing in general and the way that works and two thousand nineteen going forward. You wanna do wanna just give your quick response to that? And that will really dig into it throw in the context of like, you said what I've been doing kinda shifted about a year and a half ago. Maybe a little more time flies while and really directly working with clients for the first time in a long time for me going from kind of teaching hundred percent producing content mode. Everything we were doing a copy blogger the podcast all of that to out working directly with clients and the actual needs in the clients have out there in the on the streets. So to speak and a lot of great insights from that. And there's you know, I won't be naming names or anything here, of course, in terms of specific relationships or anything like that. But both in our work that we do over at remote maker digital services. And then just in general kind of looking at the industry as a whole talking to other people both freelance agency over the last bit of time one of the big things that I've seen and is very interesting. I have experienced this myself. And I think we all have at one point or another is, hey, what's okay? I get it. You guys been talking about this stuff for years understand marketing, generally? That's great. It's all great. But what's the gimme? The gimme the magic bullet. The gimme the I want the one thing that's going to take me to where I want to go, and whether that's rarely ever articulated out loud like that, you know, it's not. It's not like people ask for it. But we all want it and the kind of stark realization that it doesn't exist can be jarring. But I wanted to if you're willing to take I wanna get your perspective on this to this idea that hey, there is no magic bullet. There is no one thing that's going to save you. And in fact, there's a lot of fallacies, maybe even interesting disasters. Like you said. Along the way of getting your business from the place. You are to the place. You wanna be through marketing digital marketing content marketing in all the things that we talk about. One of the one of the issues that comes up almost immediately with this is for all of us to that. We we don't only want it we expect it, and that is from the content that copy blogger producers to what clients expect from kind of agency in that sense. And I guess I'm here to say, and we can stop the podcast after this magic bullet of marketing doesn't exist. Thank you. Good. Bye. Bye. Let's say we're just gonna leave you. We're not gonna have. No, I didn't. I do. I hear it all the time when I'm teaching hear it all the time when I speak at conferences when I speak with clients, you know, like I'll have a conversation with with a client or prospective client. And they've all just come back from a conference, obviously, timing traffic and conversion conference just wrapped up which is an excellent conference is a very fine conference. But everybody comes home and his like Kenya. Do X that you knew. This thing that I heard a forty minute presentation about and it's not that. There's something wrong with the presentation or or any of it. But the expectation again is you know, I see people chase this tactic to that tactic. And one week. It scary v you know, micro content and the next week. It's whatever it is almost every tactic as long as it's not gross. You know are not dishonest virtually every tactic has a as a role to play. But if you just chase tactics around I mean, I've just seen people waste so much time in so much money. Yeah. That's really interesting. I don't think I've thought about it in in that context of more than just kind of an existential. Dread of you know, that that the magic bullet the silver bullets not out there. But specifically like you just said that the kind of merry go round of the hot new thing. Whatever that is the goes in cycles that. Yeah, conferences, or just all of a sudden every. Blog post. You see every podcast listened to his about XYZ tactic for three months. And then the funniest part about that in the fad, really the sad part. Because it's so it can be such a waste of time and money is three months later. Nobody's talking about it. And it's like, wait a minute. This thing was supposed to save all of western civilization and the businesses within it you were saying a couple months ago. And now you're onto something completely new, and it it's a dangerous thing for marketers as well. Because you don't want to be that person that is constantly touting. Hey, I mean, that's not to say, you know, this, of course, that that strategy tactics are useful into employed, and sometimes new things come up that are worth trying out and sometimes are very profitable. But you don't wanna be this person on this Mary around constantly, slinging, you know, the new thing that that it basically there's principles. There's there's boring bottom line principles. That we know and that many people know that work, but we don't want to do them. Right. And that's what it comes down to is the basics the fundamentals we're gonna get into specifics little bit later, but the basics fundamentals of marketing as it applies to digital marketing marketing now, but as it applies to to what we want to accomplish. Let's let's get a little bit. Let's get a little bit into that. You know, you do a lot of strategy work for clients over it remake of digital services. You're talking glance probably every day about you know, what should my strategy? Look like, can you talk about some of the elements chew consider or you know, how people people understand for their own sites for their own businesses. Yeah. And this is where it's it can be a little shocking. I think especially to people in the industry into marketers in general copywriters, how basic that might seem to them. And that's. Probably the same in every industry. It's like if you the professionals that swirl around any given industry are always going to be kind of at the far edges of trying to find out what's out there in what's going on where clients customers are, you know, they just they just want to to work, and that's certainly the case here, and so in our strategic plans, it's funny because the I don't want to say that none of the I think already said, none of the strategies and tactics that we talk about a lot don't work. I think mildly. My main hope would be that people would remember to go back to the basics in always go back to those fundamentals, and that's what do your question what we really kind of focus on with strategic plans is things like, you know, number one. I mean, literally who's your audience who are you talking to how can you reach out to them? What what kind of one of the big questions is how willing Abel's desirous? Are you? You of fully committing in a way that probably uncomfortable to content production. Whether that's text video audio imagery. There's only a few things that can be done fundamentally in terms of producing content. But are you willing able and desirous of doing those things and a lot of people aren't that's fine. So then we find another way to kind of get that done either through hiring out or or sometimes we we've several clients that just monsters, and they are producing stuff on a scale and at a pace that I can't even believe that they're running a their actual business on top of it. And it's just it's really cool to see that. I think is rare because we've all faced that. I mean, even in the content, quote content business it gets difficult. You got the business run you got things to manage. But also, you know in copy bloggers case, of course, this ongoing content is is a bare minimum to to get it out on regular basis. So things like that. We look at conversion opportunities basic conversion fundamental conversion opportunities like you know, how your headlines doing. What is the structure of the basic structure of your homepage is is is a big one. What do you want to sell, you know, above the fold? What do you want in in sections on the homepage below that? And what's the best kind of placement for you know, obviously, I'd say maybe eighty percent of the time. We wanna go for the Email list. I sometimes there's probably a little more than eighty percent. But sometimes there's something else either temporarily that they're wanting people to see I we're not and then going down like the homepage in the structure of all that and basic things like how are your calls to action? Do you have calls to action? I think you wrote about this fourteen years ago. You know, do you have a call to action? So in you, and I. And can can laugh at that. You know, warm heartedly there's no mocking there. But you know. It's one of those things that we forget from laughing at it. And I'm laughing at marketers not the clients because the clients they've got their thing going on. But to expect someone to even know what the hell is. And I try not to use those acronyms and things like that. But calls to action in what it is is ridiculous. That's what we're there for. So. And remembering this might be you know, one of the most important things is remembering to to serve them. And if you're not humbling kind of yourself just because like you said, I just got back from this amazing conference in, you know, Budapest. And what the what they said was we gotta do this like, well, that's cool. Maybe it's applicability, but how's your house your cost actions? So things like that. And then things that maybe we'll talk about if you let me on again, big ones, like cornerstone, content and content landing pages that the copy large talked about for years. I kinda talk about that in the way of. Main site topics, but so big overview fundamental things that's like the focus on and then, you know, more tactical things, of course, like SEO and copywriting in general, and what kind of content produce. Fema interesting disasters. I I am curious like what are the what are the problems? I mean, and it's I I like what you said. And I want to reinforce it. I have seen some brilliant. People brilliant business owners, in fact, really in some ways at wonderful marketers. And sometimes you just get blind spots. And there's just stuff like you, don't you don't do. Well, so most important, I think is like this is not about, you know, shaming anybody for not having an aspect of their marketing in order because there's a lot of pieces, and there's always a piece that you know, we haven't been like we're only this year really getting really getting into sigma nation, which is incredible. You know? So it's always something there's always something can learn or do better. So just in that spirit. I would be curious to know, what are the what are the problems? You hear all the time. You know, you've got clients coming to you every week and say, you know, either it's a problem. They know they have or maybe a problem. Why don't they have? But they do have. Yeah. Yeah. I think the two two or three big ones would be how do I reach the people? I wanna reach whether that be clients or in a in a service situation or customers in product situation. The second big one was how the hell the expect me to create all this content that you're asking me to create which we've known for years that that kind of very legitimate complaint in in concern in then just kind of like, you said being unaware of some of the incredibly powerful winds that are fundamental so and I like what you said to. It's it's almost like we're I don't know if you've ever say it, but but so many people so many professionals in all kinds of industries, I think deep down maybe expect people to diet like the doctor or not going to the doctor like expecting people to diagnose their own physical ailments, and you just can't approach. That. And so whatever I mean, there's all kinds of ways to think about it. I guess, but beginner's mind and all of that. And even as a as a professional, but to help people get through probably those three would be the big ones. And and really. Yeah. Looking for those opportunities for them in those fundamentals before you even begin to discuss I mean, I won't name them. But one of our one of our clients has done just an incredible job of on the content production side, and they had a period of time a few years ago where they were doing this and doing very well. And the kind of got busy dropped off. Maybe got some different advice and things kind of tanked in terms of traffic to their site and subsequent revenue. And so you know, what we have a really give them all the credit because number one they have an amazing product. But number two like I said they've just utterly committed to this idea of content production. It's not even content protection. You know, we've always struggled with this word content. One of the earliest conversations that I had with them was you know, they got it right away. And they were already going there. But it was this idea of you guys need to create a magazine you guys need to create a brand as the writers. And as it so happens, the writers, and the photographers that you already are and create a brand of a of a magazine that people come to then, of course, leads to your business, and that's exactly what they've done and in. I think it's been just under year. We've seen incredible gains just from that that one thing. And so now we get into things like repack. Edging repurposing all of his great content. They've produced. Yes. Automation segmentation some more sophisticated stuff. But they've done this hard work for the this year in they're gonna keep going. And so you can imagine if someone were to commit to that as we've said many times if you've got two three five years of of really good content surrounding your topic. Client, whatever it is. And you've you've created this brand of of of media around it, the possibilities for what you can then go back and do in terms of repurposing repackaging in a thousand different ways or endless. Yeah. Our friend, Andy Christina over it media. I always mentioned because he's such a dull any smart, so smart, but he and I had a conversation at the elbow the lifetime body of work. And I think about that a lot 'cause I'm incapable your has a very large elbow. Yes. Outsized elbow. You know comes a time. When it's like you've done a lot of the creative thinking, and now it's really time to get those ideas into fresh presentations and make them eligible in in new ways. So the new people can find them, you're imagine. Maybe the the big point there is this is not some complicated thing that you have to sweat and die over. It's it's really like basically what they did. They made some very specific decisions in their case. Our client about editorial calendar and back to this kind of you know, main topics that they're going to be writing about early on. And then they just produced. Great media. There's no spread you know. Insane spreadsheets involved. There's no insane. You know, marketing funnels or anything those things are all good. But to get to a starting place where those things become. Valuable. It's the fundamentals they create they create a good wrote blog posts. Yeah. And I act to no magic bullet no silver bullet. I see a lot of people. Yeah. I mean, we keep you know. It's just it is we keep his numbered fundamental. And it really is. It's the it's the ground everything else spilt on. So it doesn't matter. Like, how amazing your traffic strategy is if you're sites not worth spending time on. If there's nothing there to really enjoy an experience for its own sake and learn from and, you know, keep your interest. You never gonna go further. So, yeah, this is to another point that we've talked about before that exactly. And if you're not doing those fundamentals all the hate the word, quote, ethical bribes all the SEO all the conversion hardcore conversion copywriting, all even the paid ads in the world are not going to save you, you know, you don't have something worth come into. And you know that insight like the least, you know, come by a guy on the planet. Dan, Kennedy said, you know, if you're a great salesperson, and you have a lousy product all you do is get the word out faster about crummier. The same thing is true for content you can promote crappy content day long, and you will vary. Officially get the word out that your site is not worth ROY. Not really. I don't really help you. Yeah. And that that's the turning point. It's it's it's like, okay. Well, how do I create great content? Well, if you can't through time and effort and energy answer that question. Truly can't enter the answer that question. That's fine. It's not it's not for everyone. But whether it's you doing it or you working with partnering with somebody who can do it or hiring somebody who can do it overtime that. It's got to be done. And so you can create that big elbow. I think did you see Val Kilmer elbow. I think he heat in the movie heat. He's got this knob noble. It's the weirdest checking the next time you anyway. Can you go? But I thought I get nece don't kill. Well. That's funny. I wanna wrap up I wanna wrap up with something that is both strategic and tactical your, you know, something that because realistically, we can talk strategy all day long. But people do have to take steps strategy is also but action. So I know you have a thing a really important strategic minimal thing. It's not that hard to do the people forget so do wanna kind of deliver your bonus tip. And then we can talk about next steps. Yeah. The this is really cool and in kind of closing thing. You know, what we're talking about here, you know, Brian popularized, the idea and really kind of owned it and cemented it a few years ago with with his idea of media, not marketing, and he's tagline within that tagline within those three words are if there is an answer I have found it's in there in terms to this marketing question. That we all have and back to the fundamentals and everything we've talked about and creating content. Like, this is you're either building brand or you're just hustling in grab it whatever you can and shit. I gotta do the paid ads. I gotta do this. I what's next. What's next? What can I put on pile onto this thing to try to make it work or you can create a brand that is ultimately over time well done in indestructible, and that's creating media that people want tactically Alevi with this. This last bonus at one thing that people forget, and I've seen this across the board in this definitely in our strategic plan kind of arena as well is a very simple thing. And that is build an Email opt in landing page. If you're not familiar with the idea of wine Email opt in Email list is important. So new can take care of that. There's plenty of stuff you can find copy blogger to read why that's important how to do it. Well, why you should do it? But. Tactically, build a Bill the landing page dedicated landing page, no distractions that is for your Email optin. And that is headline at his maybe short copy. Maybe it's a longer copy selling your Email optin just like you would sell a product on a normal landing page, but so the emotion, and the reason why somebody would want to potentially want to sign up for your Email list. That is very basic thing. There's probably a five thousand of you listening to this right now, just shaking your head rolling your eyes outlets. Dumbest most obvious thing I've ever heard. But I'm telling you, this is the kind of thing the clients want, and frankly, the clients deserve whether you're working with them or you're giving them advice indirectly from from your own blog. And this does a couple of things one of the things kind of unexpected benefits this Email opt in landing page idea, which has been around forever. I'm not saying that, you know, this is like some. But but is that just like everything else that you're doing you want your great Arctic? Was to be shared. You want easy access to them? You want to give them your own URL in the same way. It makes it easy, for instance, like on your home page above the fold. If you want the Email opt in kind of little short pitch to be the main thing, you got a knife. Create a nice easy little button to your Email opt in page instead of trying to fool with all your code for the form. And all that I know that's easier now with with some of the services that are available now. But it just makes it really easy to share on social media makes it easy for people to pass around. If you're delivering in that way, you know, it's like people are gonna wanna share it. Give him an easy way to do. So so on the surface small basic thing, but we're talking about demento, right? And this will this will transform your Email list. Can you let us know? And we we will be we will be bringing Robert back more than once. I think for to get into some of this. But I I know that you do have briefing people can get and just kiss them. Mm again so much on those fundamentals and helps them start to think three things you wanna point them to that. Yes. Thank you rainmaker digital dot com. If you go to the homepage there, you're gonna see a big blue button click that blue button in sign up for the rainmaker way Email list. It's a series an opt in that's going to give you really great white paper on this idea of media, not marketing, and then a series of emails after that will kind of help you through a lot of this stuff. So totally worth it, totally free. No spam. All of that is for sure and obvious, but rainmaker digital dot com. The blue button on the homepage there and sign up the rainmaker way Email list and see round staff. Great talking to you. We will be talking. Past. Yeah. I kind of thought you were sort of. All right. So. All right. Take care. Thanks, everybody.

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