151 | An Accidental Drug Mule
He has to lean in the Caribbean. Because he's having mechanical problems with the plane and he ends up. Indoor handover in flipping the plane down the runway it explodes in a fireball. Enjoy your free lobster and shrimp cocktail knowing that your life depends on the guy who keeps crashing planes and getting caught by and that's on their side on our side. Let me see criminal criminal criminal not ours. I throws Ruby. Okay y'all are you looking around your home and thinking I have got to prep for holiday. Guests will I am and I went to the company store. The company store has everything you need to get your home holiday ready. They have more than a hundred years of experience experience and they have all the world's finest materials for their bedding and they're bath and all the home decor collections. Those cute little pillows you put out for gas the great bath towels you WANNA put out. 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Warm and cozy with the company store oil welcomes of best case. Worst Cases Jim Clemente retired. Rbi Profiler Foreign New York City writer-producer on CBS's criminal minds and with me today in the studio is hi everybody. It's Francey Hague's former state and federal prosecutor Jan Jam. We're back together. The Band is back together in the studio in La Insane place with one of our favorite and fan unfavorable Jess Hi Temple Mattie. Jim's brother former police officer former FBI agent counterterrorism agent now a writer and producer here ex-chief productions. Josh fantastic. I mean this. I'm feeling a little bit of a ladies out there in our listening audience. I'm feeling a little bit. Outnumbered here not only. Do I have two guys which happens all all the time. But it's to Clementi's that's an unusual situation Jim. I don't know if I can handle it. Careered extra productions Clementi rich production that is accurate accurate. But we're very glad to have you him really appreciate you spending some of your very tight schedule with us because our listeners literally clamor. When is Tim Clemente demented coming back with another story? So I- I corralled. You did and here you are. You guys should have seen. What do yesterday ten we need you on? The podcast is like I don't know and I'm like Tim. We need you on the podcast. I don't like you guys. I mean it was really tough will frenzy you corralling people. That's pretty not much of everyday thing is every every hour really so here. We are so tim. Where were you in your career? When this particular case you're thinking occurred? I was about a week into my. FBI special agent career just graduated from the FBI Academy and so that was after. How many years is police officer just over three and a half years with the saint? Louis police torment before I came into the FBI so as nineteen ninety-five when I got into the the FBI Academy in July of that year. July twenty third as a matter of fact. And then this case that I'm GonNa talk about began in November that year like I said a week after I graduated Edward From the Academy Do you remember what you were doing. Specifically when this case came to you I was assigned to the International Narcotics Squad in Washington field office the FBI. And one of the first things I had to do was organized and hosted F- Task Force meeting. OJ anytime you use all those letters in combination you gotta step back tell. Our our listeners wasn't Osip task for F- is organized. Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force so it's a federal task force set up by the federal government primarily through the FBI and da a to bring in local state and other law enforcement entities onto one task force target criminal entities primarily involving drugs. You know owes. It was great when I was a baby. Federal prosecutor were to always be now rings we had to do is go through the training section for the first six months and that meant we had to see a little little bit of every section in the. US Attorney's office and so that included the drugs action. And so I got the do you know one or two small cases with the DA and part in one of those was was on the task force. And I'll never forget going to the Osa deaf offices so every federal agency has their own offices but it seems like every federal agency also has like secret offices other places and they're not necessarily top secret so much as confidential secret because of what they're doing and Osa was one of those places and it was in downtown Atlanta in a secret location patients which I cannot disclose even if I remembered and it was like this mystery building and you would have never known federal agents were there. None of the cars look like normal. We'll agent cars and you walked in all the security to try to get in all the key codes and all that I'm GonNa talk to him got thrown out of that. I'M NOT GONNA say Jim. I'm taking the breath. No Okay because I know you've got thrown out of like Canada once. Canada doesn't like me. Dismal have access from nicest scared of nothing. I've been I've I've been kicked out of the Iraq war zone at least three times. Let's see and that's only clemente thing could only give you gotta warzone where there's war going on Bezos have is a really interesting task. Ask for him because as you said it brings together federal state and local authorities. And so they do a wide variety of cases. I mean from Real Street level. Crime all the way up to sophisticated wiretap under title three of the Federal Code. Yup that's exactly it. So how did the case present itself to you. Well what happened. Was We sat at the meeting. There were several local cops. There one cop from the Metropolitan Police arm in Washington D. C. M. P. D. as it's known name was Pablo Figueroa and Pablo was was a sergeant on the Narcotics Squad in Wash Metropolitan Police Department. And when I introduced myself at the meeting I mentioned I just come out of the academy and I was a cop and Saint Louis and so- Pablo came up to me after the meeting there were. Da guys there. There were guys from Virginia State Police Maryland State police other agencies. Pablo alone came up to me after the meeting and and said hey you're cop right and I said Yeah I said you know this is kind of an adjustment for me being an FBI agent. Now you know I liked working on the street and he said well. I got this letter from this guy in a prison in Maryland. And he's Kinda acting like a jailhouse lawyer for a guy I arrested and put in that prison and he said and it's written to the DA but he sent it to me to for me to give it to the DA and he said I hate the DA. I hate those guys. They steal our cases they steal all the glory steal your sources. They're not fair game players. There's he said but you were a cop so I trust you so you mind if I give you the letter and I said sure. Give me the letter. So he hands me this letter yet. It in his pocket. It's written by a guy named Ronald Eugene Jackson accent and he was a federal prisoner at Cumberland. Federal Penitentiary in Cumberland Maryland and his date of birth was July Fourth Nineteen thirty four. I remember it because Fourth of July and and he was acting on behalf of a young Guy Twenty or twenty one years old that had received a twenty two year sentence for his first arrest. Drug Arrests Jason was a few kilos of cocaine. But it was first arrested and Ronald Eugene Jackson Aka Ron Jackson figured that was a little much. So somebody railroaded with this guy so he was writing the letter. Saying I'd like to try and help this guy because I believe he got a bad deal and I think his lawyers probably paid for by the cartel and they wanted to send him up the river so he'd be out of their hair and out of their way 'cause they told him don't worry we'll appeal will appeal but they hadn't even filed for an appeal the weight. So what is Ron Jackson in prison for. That brings him come in contact with this young man who might have been. What do you think he might be in jail forever? I don't know Tim's the guest. I want him to tell me really. You're GonNa let them. I do not lie wrenching of glands. Well I actually have an answer to excellent. So Ron Jackson is in jail because Ron had been. He had a degree in English yet. Another degree in geology. He was a former marine who fought in the Korean War and he became a geologist. He was also a English teacher in high school. The geology was his passion and he had a little side business beside being teacher. Live down in Georgia in the Atlanta area. Now and in that area know if you're familiar you're with it but He would do water well drilling. And then when the oil boom kind of happened in the sixties and seventies and Texas he started drilling for oil in Texas so Georgia. There wasn't much oddly enough so he would commute from Atlanta to Texas mostly the Houston area and he was also pilot so he bought a small plane and he would put his drilling equipment on this small cargo plane and fly to Texas and do drilling because it's virtually very similar apparently for testing for water and testing for oil drilling. I should say so in. Houston he had his growing business drilling for oil and helping helping as a geologist determine where oil might be and that worked out great for awhile is making a lot of money commuting back to his home in in Georgia area and then one day the market when South and oil prices in the United States were climbing or dropping be based on the the flux in the seventies in the oil crisis crisis that occurred and so when the prices dropped people were not spending the money to drill for oil and didn't need his services anymore. So here's Ron with an airplane oil. Oh drilling equipment and no work now so turns out. There was a boom in South America at that time for oil discoveries in Colombia Venezuela other places in South America. I feel like I see where this is going. Jim Really Damn so you already having South I. I feel like it's going south and I feel like it's going into drug smuggling but I don't however sure so. Let's get your guests. You're going to stick with that. So Ron Jackson gets word on this. Boom that's happening in South America so he flies his plane in with the oil drilling equipment down to South America and there is such a clamor for oil exploration there that they pay him literally ten times times with that equipment was worth in the United States so instead of working down there with the equipment he realized I can sell this equipment and make more money and then he flew back to Texas. Bought more oil drilling equipment flew down South American soil data equipment and he was making a killing and so he realized this is a great business. I'm going to keep doing this. Import Export. Yeah that's the export part of it. And then he was approached by some people that said you know we notice. You're flying down here with equipment and flying back empty. How would you like to get paid for transporting things in both directions? And Ron said what do you have in mind. And they said well these little packages here that away about two point two pounds. Otherwise known as a kilogram. We'd like to give you some of these and have you just deliver them to wherever you're going and we'll have somebody pick it up from you and will pay handsomely for that. He realized what it was. It was drug said I have no interest in that and so he flew back to Texas. Got Moral Equipment flew back to South America Colombia Venezuela and other places sold that equipment and kept getting approached every time finally finally after many trips back and forth. They pleaded with him. Just do this one trip. Just fly this one load for us and he said what are you. What are you gonNa give me for it? And when they told him how much it was done deal. And how much was it It was significant eight. Figure I think a lot about eh sounds like that Tom Cruise. It's very much like that. Tom Cruise the N.. Ron knew the guy that that Tom Cruise movie is about. They were competitors but they were friends. I so ron flies this load back. He's sites at what the heck where I've flown in back and forth. Dozens of times never had any problem with the police or anybody else. I fly to the same Amir Strip. I fly to all the time on land. There no problem you pick up the dopes air and you're on your way but it didn't work out that way for deer. So Ron takes off from a different airstrip this time because ordinarily he's going to a place where he sells the equipment but instead he returns to another airstrip in northern Colombia picks up the load for them and then flies. What he doesn't know is that airstrip is being monitored? And it's being monitored by the United States Drug Enforcement Administration the DA as well as US Customs and border control. So when he launches he's being tracked immediately and once he gets over American airspace fighter jets and customs helicopters are in the air surrounding him and they force him Philan- and he's arrested just proving. That your first time can get you caught or yeah yeah and it can be your last time. But not necessarily for Ron Jackson right. So the moral of the story is does crime pay. That would be the question and the the answer I think. In this case we'll take a little explanation to decide so ryan gets arrested. He loses virtually all his professional connections. It's nobody wants to sell him equipment. Nobody in the oil industry trust him. He can't get a job as an English teacher again in a high school in Georgia so things have turned south and even in Georgia. Yeah we don't like drug dealing English teachers it's just a thing and it's somewhat understandable so at the same time Ron spends a little little bit of time in jail and he had a girlfriend at the time he was divorced and that girlfriend once he got arrested decided I am taking his car selling his house and all his belongings and and she disappears so Ryan literally has nothing is nothing except the ability to fly and knowledge of a market that exists between South America and America mark and so he still has a plane. They take away his pilot's license but they don't takeaways playing. There is a seizure thing that's going to take effect. It's a slow process. This run kind of skip off on his proceedings and flies back to South America gets more drugs flies in jumping bail male jammed. That might be called that and he He gets away with a few times bills up a little bit of a reputation down in South America as a daring. Do Guy and on his second or third trip. He has to land in the Caribbean. Because he's having mechanical problems with the plane and he ends up and over in flipping the plane down the runway it explodes in a fireball lands in the ocean. He's UN totally unhurt. Wrong first of all just this guy. I don't know of Boscell but good. I wish you could anyway. So Yeah flips end over. End Down the runway in a ball of fire. He has another buddy any of his. He's convinced to go on the trip with that. Buddy is lacking I'm done. I'll never doing this again. But Ron convinces them the doors. I engine problem. There was a landing gear problem. So now they've destroyed the plane and the load but the cartel doesn't care about that the cartel only cares about people that do bad things and bad. The things in the cartels opinion is cooperating. With the police Ron never cooperated and because he fled on the first arrest and went in off at went off and did these other loads for them mm-hmm and because he almost died trying to deliver load they consider that heroism. They consider that a great worthy person to have on their side so they reward him they they like up the amount that he you can move and they upped the amount. They're gonNA pay him so they buy him a new plane because having a white American Spanish speaking fluent I forgot to mention Ron was born in Panama. His father was American. His mother was from Panama and so he grew up. Bilingual grow up speaking English and Spanish in a in a both in American and Hispanic home. And he's a white guy dirty blond brown hair and spoke fluent Spanish without an accent English without an excellent with Iran's background and education. Asian Ron Ron really been ruled the world if he had not picked a life of crime agreed no doubt about it and again back to the question does crime pay uh-huh Y'all everyone knows. Your mental health is just as important as your physical health in thankfully there's talk space. The online talk therapy platform. That's with you. Twenty four seven talks. Base knows. Therapy isn't one-size-fits-all. And it shouldn't be. And that's why they match Gotcha with one of their five thousand plus licensed therapist based on your preferences. Unlike traditional therapy talks pace is entirely online from your phone or computer. Peter here's how it works. I create an account and speak to a matching agent. That will help identify. Your therapy needs. Then choose a plan that suits your budget of messaging and video. uh-huh base plans are available depending on the level of support. You want in finally talk. Space will pair you with the best suited therapists based on your needs. 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Many more loads and gets arrested ends up in federal prison for about I think he did about eight ten years on that. I Long Stanton done a couple of small ones. By the time I met Ron in November nineteen ninety-five he had done on a total of twenty three years in federal time. So that's a long long time. So Ron had been through some adventures in that time and between cleaned arrests and between periods of Incarceration Ron continued to go back every time and fly drugs. Okay so now ron's just dumb well. It's not just that he's dumb. Tom I will give you that. But it's also that Ron didn't leave himself a lot of other options again. He was a teacher and a geologist. He had no options to do either. We really did so so rather than look for legitimate work. Ron Look for the easy Bach and went back and it was a big easy buck for tell you. I've been a lot of prisons. I would do any stop at Jim. How many years anyway and I would do anything not to have to spend significant amounts is a time there so I just don't understand that agrued no and he had been in some really bad prison? This is a guy that was in the worst of the worst. I mean he had been I don't know about fifteen different. Prisons again moved around a lot so he never said he had yet ex wife and a few kids. Those kids grew up without him because he was behind bars. Or behind the stick of a plane and flags and he regretted that very much later in life but it was too late for him to really make much of a change with that and his kids grew up without Outrun Jackson and being an influence in their lives and maybe because of what he was doing. That's good that he wasn't an influence He had one daughter that became a police officer. So obviously obviously they did good despite what their father was But Ron when I met him was Let's see it was ninety five so he was sixty one on years old. I would imagine that makes it. So Ron Sixty one year old guy that it's been twenty three years in federal prison. He wrote this letter and So I soon as I got the letter I said. Let's go talk to the guy. Pablo Figueroa the Koppen. Empty said he's in Way Out in western Maryland two hundred miles from here. I can't go there. That's not in my jurisdiction. acidify deputize you you can. He said okay so I went to my boss said guy. Deputize Pablo Faucet sure so that baton we got my bucar. You just basically Xavier deputy now the they get sworn in they get a little. Id so now that means the federal government's GonNa pay for their overtime for their transportation. Whatever there Oughta so now he can work overtime? I'm on cases and he worked in Egan work outside his jurisdiction anywhere in a federal jurisdiction as a local copy can only work in DC but as as a deputized federal officer where he can work anywhere that we work so we deputize them. We get in a car. And we drive to Cumberland Maryland and we just show up at the prison and so I go and I'm we just show the prison show but the tim listen you had just gotten out of the FBI. Academy I feel certain somebody taught you procedure and that's definitely not in it as the visit in a lot of yes of course we had planned out in advance scheduled everything got all the permissions. Yeah well nobody. There was no procedure. I had ever heard of a plan for anything in your life. I'm just wondering Gingrich confidence ignorance of that and so I love more than it might so I drove out to the prison and got to the front office and the first guy I meet is guy by the first name Tim. I won't say his last name. Justin Casey still has a career. There wants to maintain it and thankfully I. I did what I always do. I brought swag with me so I had. FBI coins hats. T shirts all kinds of stuff in the car so jim you don't need deeper mission and advance notice. You just EAT SWAG DO I. Don't usually works. And so I met this guy. Tim's work in the front office. I explained we WANNA talk to this prisoner. He had written at this letter and he's like well. There's this whole procedure thing. Use that word you use and Kim. Some t shirts hats and coins for him though the guys in the office and I was like well. You KINDA help the FBI out in this all we WANNA do is talk to him. We're not taking him out of here. We're not doing anything else. And he said well there are visiting hours that start in an hour so all right. We'll put you on a visit. LoC and will will make a request to him. We can't guarantee he's going to talk to you. I said that's okay no problem so He got us in the door. We got in visitors room and sure enough here comes this grey haired Guy Walk in looking around and I said I bet. That's Ron Jackson and so I walked up to him said are you on. He said Yeah. And I said Might if I talked to you. And he's had over you and I said you wrote a letter the letter in my aunt and he said are you at the. Da and I said no better yet. I'm with the FBI. And he said Oh great so we sat down in a corner of the room that he now Um and I said What's the deal? How are you gonNA help this guy? You're talking like you're jailhouse lawyer and you're going to file an appeal. Is that what your plan is. And he said No. I'd like to you know if there's anything I can do to help this kid. Whatever it is I want to help them because I think he got stepped and I said well what would you be willing to do and you say well? I'd be willing to share my little black book with you. If any anything in there is a value you you can have it and I said well. What's your little black book? And he said well. I wasn't expecting this meeting but I go back to my cell and get it. I said go ahead get it goes back to his cell comes back ten minutes later and he's got this little black book literally a little black box. This is nineteen ninety-five so he wouldn't have had a cell phone anything anything like that. And he's in prison but he had had his little black book. And so I said I start flipping through it and I it opens on E. and I look in the first name I see as Pablo Escobar guts. Like twenty phone. Numbers burst his mother. His sister brothers home addresses everything else. And I said where'd you get Pablo Escobar Escobar's information. He said well I worked for him. I said you worked for Byblos now. Dead Bob pub was killed a year or so prior but still. He's got all this relevant information about him. I said would even you work for them. So now they go back to Ron Ron and his prior life and his arrests so after one particular arrest Ron got back down to South America. They got him another plane. He got a big load of cocaine because he had just gotten out of prison he failed finish. That eight or ten year stint didn't cooperate. Didn't plead didn't do anything. Just let them sentenced him. He did his time now. Now he's the most valuable person in the world to the cartel because he has proven himself worthy capable honest trustworthy in their opinion he is perfect and that's is on their side on our side. Let me see criminal criminal. Criminal not is not trustworthy. Yeah okay maybe stupid for risking federal prison constantly. He's he loved it. Yeah maybe like that in there so so to them to the cartel. He's valuable so now he's brought from low level to mid level to higher level to Pablo Escobar so he eventually gets Pablo Escobar and Pablo says. Hey I'm giving you a full plane load you take this there and you know now you work directly for me no more middlemen. You're my guy. So He's at the pinnacle of his business now. Han is at the top of his game and so he flies from from Columbia towards the United States and enroute declined very close to Panamanian airspace and in Panamanian airspace Panamanian Indian authorities intercept him and force him down in Panama and so now he is a plane load of cocaine and he has another guy with them but his buddy that he had flipped end over. End Down the runway anway guys still flying with them just just because he wanted companionship. And have somebody to hang out with Andrea Andrea Man. I would say so so now. He's in Panama now. Who Runs Panama at this time? A man named Manuel Noriega. So Manuel Noriega doesn't put Ron Jackson in a Panamanian prison. He invites Ron Jackson to meet with him in his office. And that's not a cocaine is worth a lot of money. So Manuel Noriega says Ron. WHO's cocaine and Ron says it's Pablo Escobar's and Manuel Noriega says no it's actually mine? And you work for me. And so Manuel Noriega then says here's what you're GONNA do. You'RE GONNA fly that goat gain to my people in the United States and Ron's like okay if I have to. He says yes. You have two because your buddy here is going to stay with me while you're doing that. And so his buddy stayed in. Panama Noriega Five Star resort. All taken care of. It's all good as long as Ron does. What he's supposed to do and comes back with the money? To Manuel Noriega. No I don't think you can enjoy your free lobster and shrimp cocktail tale Knowing that your life depends on the guy who keeps crashing planes and getting caught by other beep Rhode exactly and so run. Flies makes it comes back back. To Manuel Noriega Manuel Noriega. Get some more cocaine. The Philip the plane and flights and ED states after the second trip. Manuel makes the mistake of allowing Rana's buddy to get together and go out to dinner and drinks on their own but he puts. They're playing on lockdown so we got armed guards around their plane so they can't fly out or so he thinks so Ron Jackson and his buddy go out get drunk and then go to the airport and steal a plane so they steal somebody else's guy. Aw and they fly out they get back to the United States and now they gotta go back the Pablo Escobar apologized and explain what happened. He understands they didn't get arrested Noriega he's a businessman and it's in lost a load. He lost one load so it he loses one hundred loads a month like that and another one hundred other ways. But but so ron goes back flying Pablo Escobar so maybe steers clear Panamanian area. No more Panamanian airspace. And he was doing that to avoid going over the Caribbean and having in customs track and because over Central America. There's you know it's a lot harder for American aircraft to go over that airspace. And try and track him so he can stay low. He can stay a high flying the mountains. He did what he had to do. So now I'm in the waiting room or in the visiting room at the Cumberland Federal Penitentiary talking to Ron and I'm flipping through this book and and there are there's just name after name after name. Everybody that's big in the business and the Cali cartel a COUPLA cartels. He knows everybody and I said all right. You can't possibly have worked with all all these people and you should know everybody in. That book is either somebody. I did work with firsthand or approached me to work for them while I was out working or I did prison time with them. And every single person in this book trust me implicitly lateral X and I will obviously Pablo Escobar is not a value to us now but if you were to pick somebody in here and I don't want somebody like Pablo Escobar. Because it'll be impossible to target them right now we would have to start lower. Pick a name and tell me who you would start with him. What you could do so he picks out a couple names Orlando a stupid yawn and me Gail on Hell Janos Peres? Two guys he picks out right away and says these two guys really well connected there. There are moderately high up. They're not at the top level and I think they would trust me immediately. So okay what can we do and he said I can reach chop them when I get out. So when do you get out. And he said well. I got about three months left here than I have six months in a halfway house and I can reach out to him then I said well I can get you out of here tomorrow. He I said no I can happen. I said why and he said because I gotta do every minute of my time. That's why I'm valuable to them. I said okay. Well what are you willing to do whatever you want me to do and I said what if we want to do to fly down there and do a load force and he said well. I don't have a pilot's license anymore. So I doubt the federal government would allow me to fly and I said what if I could get your pilot's license back he said can you. I said why good night you're thinking I'm awake at the academy we can do. All this time we deputized this guy we give them a files operating reading. FBI procedure clearly. So I said there's no reason why we can't try so we'll do that so he said all right with an off see you in Atlanta and about nine months. I said that sounds like a deal so over that nine months I did research on the targets. He gave me a copied his entire book. Rivera fide phone numbers contacts I went to this very secretive entity. That's within the DA basically but it works for the entire federal government. And I can't say who they are where they are. But they're very big into signals intelligence and I provided them with all the data that was in the book and they were able to target guys all over the world and establish a bunch of other cases cases and I said just stay away from these guys right here and their chain of command. That's what we're going after. And they did and so just him. Providing the little black book was incredibly valuable to the federal government to the FBI The da into Oso- have taskforces all over America and south and Central America. But he didn't but he didn't do that to get get himself out of prison early or get any credit. He wanted it all for the young friend who had obviously been sort of mistreated by cartels. And he said I. I don't want this guy's life to end up like my life so if I had been smart when I went to prison the first time I would not be here now sixty one years old getting ready you to get out of prison. When I'm sixty two having ruined my life ruined? My family destroyed countless other lives. I would actually be doing something good with my life and he said so. This kid made a bad turn. He's like twenty twenty one years old and as a right now he'll be forty two or forty three when he gets out of prison and he doesn't deserve serve that he deserved an opportunity for a second chance. I'd like to try and give him that. I said well that's admirable. It's good and I said well. What about your life? What do you mean a so? What if we could turn your life around? He said it's too late for me and I said we talking about your sixty one. He said Yeah. My life can be over soon. I've ruined my life. I can only help other people with the short time I have left and I said what if you don't have a short time left. What if you could really turn your life around? Would you do it. He said I would love to. But I don't think it's possible I said but it is and he said I just don't believe believe it said there's always a possibility for Redemption Ron. Don't give up on that. Let's see we can do redeem. You said well if you could ever actually get me my policies back so I could just fly around the United States just for sightseeing. Just because I love being in the air that would be redemption for me. I said okay. Then that'll be. The first goal might also be a way for him to continue doing what he's been doing the tire career as the most trust were they law biter. But let's just see okay. So what happens is Ron and I meet up in Atlanta Georgia in Probation Parole office down there. I believe it was right after his birthday so sometime in early July nineteen ninety six X and when his parole officers. They said. You can't work with them. Milwaukee will not allowing it and I was arguing. So what do you mean. I can't work with them. They said Nope. This guy's too much of a threat danger he he'll flee whatever we can't trust and I said he did his time. What are you talking about? He did his time he's done. You can't control that. And they said because he did halfway house he did everything he was. He was on full release. He was supposed to be on probation ovation for a month or something. It was really short term because he has served the entire sentence if he had cooperated or going to plead guilty he would have had a longer parole at the end and he didn't. It was very very short and I said I'm sorry but I'm ignoring what you're saying. It's just it's not relevant. He wants to help the government and he wants to do right to make up for what he's done John Wrong. I want him to have that opportunity and he should and my supervisor Kevin Lewis was there with me and Kevin Argue with with them to saying what are you guys talking about. You don't don't believe that he can ever do right because he's done wrong and they said no. We've seen it happen too many times and we believe the temptation of putting back into the drug world is going to be too much for him and that it'll draw him back into it. I said the. Here's the difference. I will be with him. He's not alone doing this stuff. I'll be part of it. I will be doing an undercover with him. He will be my cooperating witness. I'll be on every phone call every meeting. Everything with him just wants to get on drug flight. The goal was to do that to fly some drug serious but I argue you guys you. You don't know what you're talking about. You're thinking that this guy is GonNa get lured back in. I'm telling you I believe this guy wants to change his life after this. This last stint which I think was twelve years the last twenty three years that he did total it changed him and he was like. I really don't do this anymore. And so here we are. FBI Agent Tim Clemente FBI supervisor. Special Agent Kevin Lewis Arguing with the probation and parole officers in Atlanta. And they put their foot down. We are not GonNa let this happen while while we're out of time now but we can't wait. We come back to hear how you and I'm pretty confident. Did you did because I know a little bit. More of the story how you got past their regulations and continued to work with this now released released federal prisoner. I can't wait to hear the rest of the story Tim as usual. You have me on the edge of the seat and I'm really looking forward to hearing how tim that on a plane and crashed. You know that's coming. Let's not all right. We'll we'll thank you for coming and we can't wait to hear the rest of your story and in until next to them. Thank you for listening. The best case. Worst case is an ex g production produced by JIM CLEMENTE NOT A empire studios. La Engineered and edited by Mike Stahl music composed performed by Simba Sumberg and hosted by one. You can listen to best case worst case on your favorite listening APP. We're on spotify stitcher apple podcasts. And wherever wherever you listen to podcasts. If you want to do something about child sexual abuse use darkness delight can help. Did you know that more than ninety percent of the time. Children are sexually abused by someone. They know Jim. This isn't about stranger danger. It's about learning the true risks darkness to light. Training can help prevent recognize and react to child sexual abuse in your community. When you make the decision Susan again involved? Kids can be protected. It starts with you visit. Www Dot D. two l. dot org to take the training raining and learn more. That's Di the number two L. Dot Org.