Nov. 22 Sen. Cramer, Rep. Richmond, Dr. Fauci & Moncef Slaoui
Now is the chance to use reliable energy to grow your money. With the dominion energy reliability investment our new investment product offers competitive returns no maintenance fees and flexible online access to your money. You make the reliable investment in reliable energy. The dominion energy reliability investment to find out more go online to reliability investment dot com that's reliability investment dot com this sunday the threat to democracy alert. Seventy four million votes president trump and his allies making baseless and dangerous claims about non-existent. Voter fraud is inaccurate. Stated george the president now hoping to get republican state. Legislators to overturn results in choose pro-trump electors to assault on our democracy. It's outrageous it's hard to fathom this morning. I talked to incoming biden. White house official congressman cedric richmond of louisiana and republican senator kevin kramer of not code plus the cove explosion more safe than i ever seen in my life and they just drop so fast daily case records being set your in an utter emergency here. A quarter million americans now dead. The trump administration refusing to confer with the biden teen. We are in a very serious situation but we can't do something about it but vaccine help is on the way that seems those between these two vaccines to about twenty million during the month of december. This morning you'll hear my conversation with dr anthony fauci and we'll talk to months f- slow head of operation warp speed joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news. Chief white house correspondent jackson any glut junior princeton university anna palmer senior washington correspondent for politico and john bon horns editor of commentary. Welcome this sunday. It's meet the press from nbc news in washington the longest running show in television history. This meet the press with chuck. Todd good sunday morning and the days immediately. Following joe biden's victory. It was easy to dismiss president. Trump's reality denial as working his base or just a tantrum or some sort of strategy for his post-presidency but now his antics are looking less like a fit of pique than an assault. On our democracy in recent days we've seen president trump and his allies pressure republican state. Legislators to overturn the election. Choose pro-trump portion instead. Trump lawyers spin baseless conspiracy theories about voting machines dead dictators in venezuela and a national conspiracy to rig the election that somehow members of both parties participated in mr trump fired. The cybersecurity official debunked false claims that the election was stolen and president trump himself tweeted blatant falsehoods about nonexistent. Voter fraud glued last night. Explicit call to state legislators to overturn the election at the same time. The president is denying biden's transition team access to information that would allow the new president deal with the cova crisis on day. One among other things simply put that decision could be costing lives in a country where more than a quarter million have already been lost. Mr trump's efforts to turn a legitimate defeat into a fraudulent victory appear headed for failure but he may succeed in undermining confidence in us elections and in kneecapping the incoming administration. And perhaps it's the motive but ask yourself. Is this the nineteen fifties or the eighteen fifties the nineteen fifties when we overcame mccarthy era crisis and eventually pulled together as a country or the eighteen fifties when the nation broke apart. I'm confident he knows he has one is just outrageous. What he's doing. President elect joe biden stepping up his criticism of president. Trump's effort to overturn the election results. Big pharma ran millions of dollars of negative advertisements against me during the campaign which i won by the way but find that out by mr trump tends to make his legal efforts appear anything more than a pr campaign aimed at de legitimizing biden's presidency and building his own post-presidency brand are failing in georgia. On friday republican secretary of state. Brad ravensburger certified biden's win after a recount numbers. Don't lie a secretary of state. I believe that the numbers that we have presented today are correct and though the president summoned michigan lawmakers to the white house on friday after the meeting they said in a statement that they would follow the normal process in certify the vote results while the president and his allies are ripping at the fabric of the democracy in any way they can. The fabric is not tearing. it's holding. I also this week. Mr trump fired homeland security official. Chris crabs who challenged his false claims of voter fraud like a loyalty purge going on in the last month in the white house. I disagree vehemently. With his firing of the thirty six election lawsuits the trump campaign republicans have filed twenty four have been denied dismiss settled or withdrawn and none has found a single instance of actual fraud most of the republicans. I've spoken to including the governor's think this is ability. It's not a sense horrible message about who we are as a country still. The republican party's responses largely been to accept and to encourage the president's attempts to overturn the election results. Just three republican senators have publicly criticized the president senator mitt romney. It is difficult to imagine a worse. Undemocratic act by sitting american president. Senator ben sasse wrote that. The president's lawyers have repeatedly refused actually alleged grand fraud because there are legal consequences for lying to judges and susan collins condemned the attempt to pressure state officials but overwhelmingly the nation's top republicans have been silent or encourage the president's unparalleled effort to steal an election. He lost by more than six million votes and by an electoral college margin equal to his two thousand. Sixteen win stacey. Abrams challenged the results in georgia. She was an american hero when donald trump's going to court. He's a dictator. I'm tired of this crap. We're gonna fight back georgia. We're gonna fight back everywhere. It's an assault on our democracy. It's outrageous it's bad for donald trump. it's bad for the republican party is bad for the country and our standing in the world. Joining me now is the incoming director of the white house office of public engagement. It's congressman for a few days longer. Cedric richmond of louisiana congressman richmond. Welcome back to meet the press. Alright tomorrow is certification day in pennsylvania. We got the lawsuit thrown out last night. Which basically was the last legal path that he had in pennsylvania. If you follow the president's plan to try to get to two hundred and seventy it doesn't work without pennsylvania if tomorrow is not the day that gsa turns the keys over. What does the biden transition team do. Congressman richmond. looks like we have An audio issue there with congressman richmond. We're going to get that fixed so we are now going to swap or and hopefully My next guest republican senator. Kevin kramer of north dakota is ready senator. Gramer as you can see there. We had a little bit of issue. I let me make sure you can hear me. Okay senator welcome to meet. The press is good to be with you. I can hear you fine and hope you can hear me. I can hear you just fine. Let me start with Sort of a form of the same issue here. But i'm gonna use senator pat toomey your republican colleague from pennsylvania. Here's what he said last night. After the decision came down to essentially throw at the president's lawsuit and pennsylvania with today's decision by judge matthew brennan a longtime conservative republican whom. I know to be a fair and unbiased. Jurists to dismiss the trump campaign's lawsuit. President trump has exhausted all plausible legal options to challenge the result of the presidential race in pennsylvania. I congratulate president-elect biden and vice president-elect kamala harris on their victory. Do you concur with senator to me that it is now over a chuck first of all. Thanks for the opportunity to be with you. And i do not although i think it's very likely that said i think we again. I don't know why we're so easily offended by a president. That's carrying out his legal options in court not enhancing the courage in any riots or burnings of buildings or beating up of democrats coming out of democratic meetings or events. It's just a simple legal processing. Really there have not been a lot of evidentiary hearings that have involve the trump case. There been other hearings. I noticed that you used a number. That was rather large of cases that have been thrown out or dismissed but when it comes down to actually looking at evidence there have not been many if any and maybe the pennsylvania. When was the first one. I think everyone calmed down a little bit. I don't see this as an attack on our democracy. We spent four years listening to news shows and liberals Discrediting trying to discredit the trump administration to the point of spying on them. By the last administration forty million dollars spent on on a independent counsel that started with no evidence and ended proving that there was no evidence and then of course this this crazy impeachment. So i think i think what we're experiencing now Everyone just just relax and let it play out in the legal way. We'll be just fine. You've implied that there's no damage being done just now in those comments so you believe. There was this spectacle. Yeah well i want to ask you. The spectacle rudy giuliani on thursday using the headquarters of the republican party. I mean at one point. One of the lawyers accused a dead dictator of somehow. Being a part of this i mean. Are you really saying that. The president is is. You're out there saying the president's not encouraging somehow any any way of sort of being disorderly about this how is that not encouraging disruption and disorder. Your he's accusing. The entire system of being corrupt is that not undermining the democracy the first of all what they're claiming is that there's a lot of evidence and they're presenting that evidence in cases now it's up to them to present that evidence check obviously and we've yet to see a real hearing where evidence was presented and and they're not obligated to present it at yesterday or tomorrow although the sooner the better from my perspective. But i'm just speaking strictly now from this attack on democracy as you call it. This is these are legal systems this these are processes that are in our constitution in our laws and they're not just appropriate but they're really an obligation frankly to the millions of americans. President trump is a reflection of. I know a lot of people like to think that we're the reflection of him. He's a reflection of millions of people that want to see him. Fight this to the end now. There has to be at chuck. I agree there has to be done. I frankly do think it's time to pass pastime to start a transition to at least cooperate with the transition. I'd rather have a president that has more than one day to prepare. Should joe biden ended up winning this. But in the meantime again he's just exercising his legal options. I just want to confirm you believe that the head of gsa tomorrow morning at this point to say the transition needs to begin. It looks like joe biden is going to be the apparent winner. Yes there's more to go through if this is what the head of gsa said yes. There's still more to go through but it looks like joe. Biden's the apparent winner. Let's allow the transition process to begin. Should that be what happens tomorrow morning. It should happen tomorrow morning because it didn't happen last monday morning. I just think you have to begin. That process give the incoming administration all the time. They need now. I will also say this. I think that Vice president biden has been a bit over dramatic as it relates to operation warp speed and the distribution of the of the vaccines and things. I mean. none of those things are secret. The military is in charge of operation warp speed. The military still going to be there after the election but there are lots of other things And i am for my staff. Were well over a week ago that they add to cooperate with any transition outreach because we want to be prepared we have to the government to run regardless with the president. Is this a concern. You that on so many and i'm sure and i'm curious what happens when you have your own constituents that say to you senator. I know this was stolen. I just don't believe it. what are you gonna. What is it gonna take these two to tell those folks. Your constituents in north dakota look. I know you don't like the results but it was fair and square. That's a great point. That's a great point. That's where leadership really does have to step in and where you have to both be attentive to them. And then use your circle of influence. And i think what it's going to take. Chuck is for all of these legal avenues to be exhausted and that at some point we start preparing for another election. There's your monologue illustrated a couple of times in our history when there have been challenges and The good news is that our republic is very resilient you do realize that in this century there have been four closer presidential elections two thousand two thousand four two thousand twelve two thousand sixteen. Believe it or not the popular vote win. Here biden is even larger than barack obama's was over mitt romney. So at what point does this undermine are. You heard governor larry hogan. isn't that coming from member. The media is a republican who thinks undermining the look of america the world. Yeah i know that. A lot of people like a nice tidy historical sort of historical traditional sort of election. But we don't have a traditional president. He didn't get there in a in a traditional way. I never cease being amazed at people like you who are surprised when he's not behaving the same way as previous presidents behavior. But i also go back to just just last year just last year just last year. Hillary clinton referred to him as an illegitimate president. We went through for years of of trying to de-legitimize him. I think that to have this process is just fine. And and who knows remember. We've also never in history in this century in another century had a massive vote by mail balloting where there was things like ballot harvesting and ballad curing things that we've never even heard of before that were taking place and frankly a much much lower rejection rate of mail in ballots than just four years ago when there were many fewer of them. So it's okay to go through this process. Make sure it's being done right. Make sure that it never happens again if there are irregularities we can't ignore hundreds of signed affidavits that's evidence that's way morale's than robert muller had well so far though that is not the case because this evidence they have it presented in court. Because they don't have it. It appears we'll see as you said if they have the evidence they should present it and they've yet to present it in a courtroom because you can't lie to a judge anyway. Senator kramer republican we. But they haven't done it yet. Anyway i really appreciate you coming on many of your colleagues wanted to you got it. Thank you sir all right. Thanks chuck you bet by joining me. Now congressman cedric richmond of louisiana. He is back with us. Well congressman. now. I'm going to get you to react to what you heard. I hope you could hear some of that interview. I knew we had some audio issues. On one hand. Senator kramer said it's time for the transition to begin on the other hand. He wasn't ready to recognize president-elect. Joe biden is that helpful or harmful to the cause right now. Well it's harmful to the cause one. It undermines the confidence in american government. This was a fair election. Joe biden won over six million votes in the popular vote Three hundred six electoral votes which is same number that donald trump had that he called a landslide. So joe biden one with a mandate and landslide. And now it's time to transition and look. The senator said that he didn't see much harm being done That's just not true and one thing that's important about joe biden understands the pain of losing loved ones and so when we think about covid nineteen. That's cost us over. Two hundred and fifty thousand americans and we're going to have a vaccine. Then we need to be meeting with distribute the vaccine to over three hundred million people and that will save lives so we want to get in there right now not talk to former officials but talk to the people that are in there right now doing the job so that we can be ready to finish or start distribution of vaccines on day one and then the last point i'll make is one of the reports of the nine findings of the nine eleven commission was that because the transition was short and failed. It left us more vulnerable for nine eleven type attack so we should be getting the national security briefings. We should have access to everything in the federal government that we're supposed to. We hope that the administrators going to do that soon. I was just gonna say given all of the things that have happened over the last twenty four hours. And what's gonna happen tomorrow tomorrow. It certification day in pennsylvania the lawsuit the one fig leaf of a lawsuit tossed out in pennsylvania. If you don't know if it doesn't start tomorrow and it certainly seems like there is plenty of reasons why it should. What is your recourse. What does the what does president-elect biden do next. look we will. We will explore every avenue. We expect it to start the certification and pennsylvania's a very big step and we are doing everything we can. We've named white house chief of staff thirteen white house senior officials this coming week. We will start to name the cabinet people in the cabinet and we expect the fbi and we need to have a background checks and other things that go with Transition so we will continue to push it with the trump administration. What we won't take any avenues off the table. Your your friendship with steve. Scalise republican from louisiana's. Well known the both of you talk about it. Because it's so rare to have bipartisan friendships. In this town these days have you talked to him and reached out to him. I mean i if relationships matter his voice would be a big one. If uttered the phrase president-elect biden what does he say to you well. I think he knows that this election is over and that joe biden will be the forty-six president of the united states is just amazing to me. The grab That this president has on the republican party and the reluctance that members have to come out and tell him the hard truth. And that's just not with congressman scalise but it starts at The minority leader mccarthy goes over to the senate with leader mcconnell You know this is the future of democracy. On the line there was a fair and square election. donald trump lost and so at some point. We have to move on but this republican party has been very to stand up until the emperor that he wears no clothes. You know steny hoyer. The number two leader in on the democratic side said i. I think this borders on treason. He is undermining the very essence of democracy. Which is you go to the poll. You vote and the people decide. There's no doubt that the people decided those are. Those are strong words. Do you concur with them. Look it's certainly an american but remember we have to all remember who we're dealing with. We're dealing with donald trump president that was impeached for withholding foreign aid to ukraine unless they gave him dirt on. Joe biden's son so there's nothing the one thing i do agree with senator kremlin is nothing that donald trump will do. That will surprise me. Because he's shown exactly who he is. A person who will break the law ignore the law to get what he wants and at some point. I just hope that the american people understand that this is about them. This is not about an elected official. This is about saving lives. This is protecting our country. In all of these people that are waking up and economic and financial instability and ruin because of our failed coronavirus response. We need to be doing something for them right now for. I let you go. You have a unique perch you were the national co chair for joe biden's campaign you're a pretty active and High level democrat in the house. So answer me this question. Joe biden won the white house but democrats lost seat in the house. Why look it was a. It was a rough and tough election. And i will say this and i've gone back and looked at numbers and other things Donald trump increasing a republican. Turnout made a big deal. But there's a whole. I think post-election audit that we should do an analysis to see where we ran strong where we didn't run strong and i think the fact that Joe biden one georgia and we still have two senate seats that are in run off Could be a telling tale for What's happening. But i do believe as democrats though. We need to make sure and look. I'm a saints fan. We need to make sure we have a good general manager of good offensive coordinator a good defensive coordinator and that we all run the same place. Look it doesn't have to be the exact same route But we should have the exact same goals in mind. And i do believe that is the case and so We will continue to push and let the voters decide etc richmond for a few more days or weeks. you'll be a democratic congressman from louisiana. But soon you will be a major player in that west wing with President elect joe biden. Thanks coming on apologies for the audio issues at the start. Thanks for having me. Chuck got it when we come back. Dr anthony fauci. And the official government's efforts to produce and distribute a safe and effective vaccine. Welcome back when it comes to the covid pandemic. we are now setting records on a daily basis on friday more than one hundred ninety. Six thousand new cases were recorded in the united states. Breaking the record that was set the day before and over the past seven days there have been nearly one point two million cases also record in a week over a million new cases folks as bleak as all this sounds though there is good news on the horizon assuming we can get to that horizon on friday pfizer applied for emergency authorization for its vaccine kicking off a process in which the fda will determine whether it's safe and effective and moderna is not far behind. Earlier i spoke with dr anthony found said yes help is on the way but i. We also have an obligation to help ourselves. We've really got to pay attention to the public. Health measures that we are not uniformly implementing throughout the country. It's disparate some doing it and some are not. They're very simple. The wearing of masks have physical distancing the avoiding congregate in crowd sessions activities particularly indoors. Trying where possible to do. Things outdoors opposed to end doors and frequent washing pans. They sound so simple chuck but they do make so the porno making is that we are in a very serious situation but we can't do something about it for a number. One point number two is that help is on the way traditionally and historically highly occasions effective. Vaccines have crushed epidemics like smallpox and polio and measles. We can do that with the vaccines that are going to be coming online. I'm trying to figure out when we're going to plateau before march. There is no mitigating event. And there's no evidence that were mitigating a thing. Where does this case. Count escalation stop. When does the hospitalization escalation stop. Are we really staring at until the vaccine. It doesn't necessarily have to be that way. We're not gonna completely eliminated in. Turn it around rapidly dramatically but we can prevent it from increasing. You look at the curve shop. It's it's almost exponential when you compare the curves in the spring and occurs in the summer with the with the inflection of the curve where we are right now we should not accept that. We can't do anything about that putting vaccines aside for a moment which will be extraordinarily helpful. If we implement simple public health is that i was mentioning to you. We can blunt that inflection. It doesn't have to be as high up. But when you think of the holiday season and the congregating indoors at what are innocent lovely functions like meals with family and friends. You've got release. Think in terms of evaluating. Do you have people in your family that our elderly that might have underlying conditions like someone on chemotherapy or other things that weaken their immune system. Do you really wanna get a crowd of ten fifteen twenty people. Many of whom are coming in from places where they've gone from crowded airports two planes getting into the house. I mean those are the things that have been such joyous things in the past. Let me ask you about testing. Believe it or not and you hear the anecdotes. It is still not easy to get a test and it's not easy to get a test quickly and you've said yourself if earlier that you regret that's one of your early regrets is sort of our testing strategy. Explain you know what i would have liked to have seen done and i had articulated this and it didn't go very far. Is the idea about chesting. Determined particularly individual is inspected so that you can identify isolate in contact traits. I'm all for that. That's fine but i'm also full what. I said months and months ago that we should be flooding the system with tests to be determined champions of the ace symptomatic spread. We don't have that ability of guests. We should have now. We should have guessed that a point of care sensitive specific. You can do it home. You could get the result yourself so that you can know when you wake up in the morning when you want to go to work whether or not you are infected or whether the people you might want to invite over your home for holiday are inspected. We don't have that. We should have that. I hope we do get that. That has been something that has not been within grants. I know technically. It's not the easiest thing to do. But i wish we had done that and joining me. Now is monsef sloughing. He's the head of operation warp speed. It is the us government's effort to pretty safe and effective vaccine for use as soon as possible doctor. Sloughing welcome to meet the press and let me start with. Look there's been great news both from madonna and pfizer. We know that pfizer applied for this emergency authorization use so the second. The approval comes. Walk me through. How warp speed suddenly gets implemented. Who gets the first vaccinations so the second. The emergency authorization is approved. The the and the cdc will issue their accommodation for who will get the vaccines on a priority basis. That's very likely to be Maybe healthcare workers. Maybe i line workers. Maybe individuals are at very high risk elderly people with commodities we will have already identified with each state department of health where they want the vaccines to be located. we cannot move the vaccine dozes prior to the emergency use authorization within twenty four hours from the approval vaccine will be moving and located in the areas where each state have told us where they want the vaccine doses and then it is each state that will decide specifically based on the guidelines from the cdc who they will vaccinate Is there a point where you may you. The federal government may say. Wait a minute state ex. You're not inoculating enough. Frontline workers hospitalizations are rising too fast. You need to focus more of these vaccines there. If you see a state not doing that. Is that something you would intervene. And tell us state look we. We know we left this up to you but you're not inoculating. Nearly enough healthcare workers. First of all the vaccine doses. We'll be disabused on on on a proportionate basis of the population and frankly. I don't see that the federal government will intervene on a state decision. Now i assume it state would be acting responsibly. Based on the guidance from the cdc and also what the label of the vaccine what the issued emergency use the relation on but normally this is not our intent to intervene at the micro level. It's really on a broad base that we are acting. Well i gotta ask how. How hard will it be to hand off this process that you're overseeing to a new presidential administration and do you hope to be kept on to continue to oversee this process so frankly the operation is has been isolated from from the administration from the political environment and the political context. We worked very hard to make sure that's the case and therefore all citizens are made train is running whether one administration or the other doesn't frankly make a difference. I hope there is no disruption in any way my personal role as you know. I have volunteered for this on a limited basis. My personal agenda is when we have to vaccines approved and two medicines approved and the rest of the portfolio that we have really well In good hands. I'll probably move on back to my private life as you know. I'm a highly supportive of of the program and if it means i work with the new administration i'll be very happy to and with view like to start briefing. The new administration next week. I understand that all the information that i made public. Of course i'll make a public to the new administration. I should not be saying. I've been informed that. I should not be saying anything. That's confidential to anybody including right. You know anybody. That's not part of the administration and therefore all act according to what the requirements are. All right Dr monsef slowly The good news this week are those vaccines all. We gotta do is hope we can get there And start doing mitigation and start doing all those other things to prevent this from being as bad as it looks right now dr slowly. Thank you so much coming on and sharing your perspective with us. Thank you for having me when we come back. President trump has been lobbing baseless charges about election fraud. He's not going to overturn the election. So what is his headless. Welcome back the panel is with us. It's nbc news. Chief course on a wally jackson said glove junior princeton university anna palmer. The senior washington correspondent for politico. John pot hurts editor of commentary. So i want to start off with a little bit of of a little bit of numbers. Because hey that's what i love to do right. Check out what we're seeing now in the two thousand twenty presidential election. I noted earlier that there are four closer races just since two thousand then twenty twenty but check this out. Twenty twenty versus twenty twelve obama romney fifty point one point one and the popular vote to forty seven point to look where the popular vote is right now. Fifty one point zero percent forty seven point two and those numbers are going to grow and they continue to grow and so biden's lead is actually going to be larger when all is said. Let me show you the popular vote splits by the way twenty twelve to twenty twenty Obama won by just under five million in the robbo. Joe biden is over six million in this raw vote. So holly jackson remind this is the fifth closest election. We've had since two thousand which means it wasn't really that historically close. I heard senator kramer use the impeachment as one of the rationales. Lindsey graham say stacey. Abrams is this the white house strategy that they're basically saying. Hey they did it to us so we're going to do it to them so that surmises that there is a strategy chuck in it and it is some sort of broader work in progress. The folks are moving toward. Listen this is about the president. This is about what he wants and what he feels and he is feeling Angry obviously we know based on this. I've talked to sources over the last twenty four hours who know chuck that the president understands that there is an uphill climb ahead. He sees the writing on the wall but the point now is to continue to keep up the fight. I thought it was interesting. That senator kramer work to as you pointed out thread the needle between yes. We should start the transition process but no. It's not president-elect biden yet. And i will tell you talked with sources in both that trump orbit and the biden orbit. They both actually agree on one thing. Which is that over the coming days chuck particularly potentially after tomorrow in the pennsylvania certification process happens you will see more republicans come out sort of putting the president on an isolated island by saying yes. We should move forward. Joe biden is the president-elect. Here's where they disagree. Though that it's going to matter for president trump right. I didn't folks on the democratic side. The biden side is going put pressure on the president. I talked with somebody who's close to the president. Said that probably will make very little difference to him in a palmer. The lamar alexander. Statement from friday to me is so striking if there is any chance whatsoever that joe biden will be the next president and it looks like he has a very good chance. The trump administration should provide the biden team with all transition materials resources in meetings necessary to ensure smooth transition so that both sides are ready on day. One lamar alexander is retiring. He's leaving on january second. I believe his term expires. Technically and he still couldn't write the phrase president elect. Joe biden thing has a lot to do with where the republican party is an a lot of these lawmakers. Don't wanna get crosswise with trump supporters. They look at how many votes he got. And the fact that he's not going away anytime soon whether or not he's leaving this administration. There's already talk of about twenty twenty four run and i think what you have is a lot of republicans not looking to inflame the president whether or not they are seeking elected office again. Eddie at what point do you think. Democrats have to fight harder about this in some ways. I think president-elect biden has preached publicly patients. We know behind the scenes are getting impatient. At what point should they be acting more impatient. Well it seems to me particularly after pennsylvania's certified we still see this going on. I need to press put put the foot put their foot to the pedal it seems to me. Look i think it's not so much the success of donald trump's efforts with regards to challenging the election. It's sowing the doubt. It's de legitimizing. The the upcoming administration and in transforming that doubt into outright hostility. And i think this is the challenge that we face in that senator kramer honestly didn't want to admit that the more donald trump de-legitimize is this process the more he undermines democratic process and unleashes in some ways these illiberal forces so i think after pennsylvania certifies. If we see this still happening. The democrats depress harder but john doors. We still have a. We're still going to have millions of people that believe one thing and this newsmax phenomenon that we're watching where clearly people don't like what they're hearing on fox and they say no. No no no no. I don't want to hear an occasional factor too. I wanna go work where life is different than election day. Let me play a little excerpt from newsmax. We're like one of the only major networks not to call the election and our view is of course will waiting for the The states to certify and see what the final result is and we're also encouraging the president to begin the possibility of a transition even if that is not been certified yet and before you respond john l. a. little history lesson christopher ruddy. I want to remind folks. The founder of newsmax was best known before found that channel for this crazy can for being the chief reporter on crazy conspiracy that somehow ron brown was murdered road seconds before a plane crash which did kill ron brown. The point is that this is sort of newsmax is at its. It's founded by conspiracy theorists what is happening to the messaging to the to the to the right side of the aisle in this country. It's very hard to fathom. Look i'm a conservative. I got into this site forty years ago about smaller government and lower taxes and traditionalist values of a strong military. And that forty years later i and people like me are being put in the position of being accused of disloyalty because we do not buy into the notion that from his grave seven years ago hugo chavez paid off the governor of georgia of the republican governor of georgia in a pair play scheme to fix voting machines whose results were just a verified by a hand recount that we are somehow being put in the position of having to say It's okay that this go on this way because the president has every legal right to contest. And we don't really have certification like this is where you get off the train when you are asked to take the train to crazy town and then moved to crazy town and then send nuclear missiles to strike normal town john. When do we get back to normal town and what happens on your side of the aisle. If if this splintering doesn't and will you know. People think that tally said that trump has strategy. What is the strategy is stupid. I'm giving examples in two thousand eighteen as the midterm elections were coming trump instead of a pushing. The strong economy sort went with this two week message about evil caravans coming up from central america. And how this was gonna turn the tide and win the republicans. The house and in fact the democrats slaughtered him. What of this strategy is a bad strategy. What if it's dumb. What if he actually doesn't know how to win and he only really knows how to lose right. He's yet to win. The popular vote yet. Lost the popular vote by a greater margin this time than he did for years ago When we come back it turns out the counties. We thought would play a big role in this election. Did exactly that. And then some stick with meet the press data download brought to you by pfizer. Welcome back data download time and a final look at our county to county project. Each piece told the story of a different trend. That would help determine the two thousand twenty election and i think we learned a lot. I up beaver. County near pittsburgh representing mr trump's. He won the county big in two thousand sixteen but he wanted again but he did lose a point from four years ago and it was those narrow margins that did matter in pennsylvania. Let's go to milwaukee county. Could mr biden increase black. Voter turnout to flip the state back to blue the answer yes improved on hillary clinton and more importantly one the state. He netted his twenty thousand votes. Just out of milwaukee kent county michigan home to gerald ford and wealthier establishment republicans. They supported mr trump barely in two thousand sixty. Not in twenty twenty biden. Flip the county and clip the state grand rapids. Those blue maricopa county encompassing phoenix and its surrounding suburbs on latino seniors sixty percent of arizona's population trump narrowly carried it in two thousand sixteen. This year biden. Flip the county and the state by the way first time since harry truman that a democrat carried that county. Finally there was miami-dade in florida. We knew it wouldn't be swing county but with the chargers at democrats embrace socialism with the large cuban venezuelan communities. The answer was a resounding yes four years ago. He carried it by twenty nine points. This time biden won the county by the margin that donald trump got out of florida and cut into hillary clinton lead was basically how he carried the entire state. These five counties turned out to be crucial in the twenty twenty election. we'll watch these and others for signals. Twenty twenty two and beyond when we come back the changing faces of congressional leadership. Sorry true same old same. After the break. Welcome back the panel is back anna palmer. It was election week for congressional leaders this week and both The house and the senate are being run by the same folks. Essentially that we've had for quite some time in fact. Take a look at what we put together here. Nancy pelosi been leader the democrats and so three mitch. Mcconnell been leader since seven the entire democratic leadership has been there since. Oh three what's remarkable. Eight congresses for presidents three changes of control of the house to changes of control of the senate. That's pre runoffs. We could have three same as it ever was to quote. David byrne here anna palmer. Why is it. If congress had popular everybody is so upset that both pelosi mcconnell have such strangleholds over their caucasus. Listen the capital is all about power who has it who wields it and who wants an both speaker. Pelosi and leader. Mcconnell are very good at what they do. They have basically complete control of their caucus and conference And there's a lot of people wondering particularly on pelosi. Is this her last term. She's been asked about it repeatedly which he's gonna stay as long as she wants. She basically played a flawless hand for trump's term. Where she was able to have impeachment get done. They were able to a trade deal in all kinds of different things as well. Hold the president's feet to the fire and so while there's frustration certainly about the fact that she's eighty the fact that her leadership team is they're all eighty or eighty one years old. No one is willing to challenge her. And you can't win with nobody. That's what she always says. And it's a it's a good thing to remember any a take it from the you're the least washington of our group here although pot hordes we'll take a little bit issue with me on that. How does this look which. I mean the congressional leadership. It really doesn't change in this country. Well yeah it's party in some ways it's a reflection of of of the problem in some ways joke. I think it's important for us to note that last year millennials outnumber baby boomers and baby boomers continue to define the kind of broad framework of the country. And what we do know just very clearly. Is that the kind of ideological stream kind of spectrum. How we think of american politics is much more muddled out in the world and it is in dc. And so part of what i think. We need to do in order to get beyond some of the gridlock to get beyond some of the traditional sorts of blockages as it were is to shake up leadership and have that leadership actually reflect the experiences of the majority of the country. So let's see let's see what happens. We have some folks on the bench marking jeffries. Some folks coming up the squad katie moore. They're they're young folk in the congress. Who can actually come in and do some really interesting things in terms of pushing the needle ford. The and what. The country needs to the john. Both pelosi mcconnell. The reason why. I think their colleagues trust them so much is will they know they understand the process and they know how to manipulate the process which it but neither of them get praised for passing legislation. If you will right well. I mean i think one of the things that's going on here is that people don't actually want to do the hard work of being in congressional leadership which is a grinding tough time consuming fund raising backscratching job and because of the nature of the modern media particularly in the republican party. You can become a celebrity or a star by being on television much more than you can buy being the chairman of a committee or being in house leadership hoping to rise through the ranks who can become alexandria. Ocasio cortez without ever having to lift a finger on the house floor. And that's a new thing and these people are actually willing to like stay till midnight every night to get things through whatever they have to get through and they don't have to go on tv five times a week It's an excellent point. final question. Halley does the white house. Aware that mitch. Mcconnell may hold his perceived fate in their hands if he'd just utters words president-elect biden. Well he hasn't done it yet. Chaka and i think there is an there is certainly an acknowledgement of that and the knowledge of that. That if senator mcconnell does that watch the dam breaking right. I think there's a question of when that could happen are reporting here. The sources i've talked to you. This legal fight and the president's insistence on acknowledging reality will likely stretch into december. there's of course december fourteenth jet line that day. Who knows will happen at that point but keep in mind. He his hinting at a run in two thousand twenty four. He'll never stop running. That's my feeling that's all we have for today. Thank you all for watching. Have a safe and socially distant thanksgiving. We'll be back next week because if it's sunday hey everyone. It's mainly msnbc correspondent and host of the podcast into america. Kamala harris made his three as the first woman. First black and first south asian vice president elect in this episode explore the little known story of a place that shaped her identity the rainbow side. It was a black cultural centre in berkeley california. That opened its doors in nineteen seventy one and welcomed the likes of james baldwin nina simone shelly chisholm. A young black and indian girl named kamla. There's one person that looks like you but here you have a building full of folks in various areas of expertise who have performed so well and done so well search for into america where losing now and subscribe.