Bonus: Chris Discusses U.S. Navy Bombing of the Mariana Islands

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

Hi, everybody producer, Chris here. Back with another little dispatch from activists around the country. This one comes to us of Sofia Peres. She is a writer who approached me after our recent Brooklyn live shows to tell me about issues regarding the US navy, and they're bombing of the Northern Mariana Islands a U S territory in the Pacific Ocean. I hadn't heard anything of this story before and I didn't really know much about our Pacific islands. Territories. And it turns out a kind of reveals a lot about our territorial governance treatment of indigenous peoples and the continual slow grind of American empire on our. Territories all over the world. So I thought I would try to bring this story from her to you. Plus if you brought me a really tasty Flon pudding ish kind of treat which went along way into peaking my interest about the Marietta's. As always I'm interested in hearing more stories of local issues and activism, potentially covering them. So if there's something you'd think I should know about the free to get in touch with me, I'm at say what again on Twitter, and my DM's are. Open. I'll try to at least read everything sent as I'm looking for new material. But also bringing me tasty treats is apparently a big decider. Alright onto island time baby. As of you. How you doing today? I'm getting good. How you doing? I'm doing great. Can you start by just introducing yourself to our listeners? Okay. My name is Sofia Paris. I work for Marianne variety. Jay Siobhan based newspaper in the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands. And been covering that activists who are resisting the navy's plans to convert a bunch of islands in the Northern Marianas into a arming ranges great. So we'll start with the number one question on everyone's mind. What are the Northern Mariana Islands? Yeah. Most people haven't heard of them. So the Northern Mariana Islands are like the fourteen islands in the archipelago. That are north of Guam must be will Guam Guam is basically a modern colony the inhabitants of Guam Chamorro people never voted to become part of the US. Basically just like a spoil of the Spanish American war. The Northern Mariana Islands actually voted to join the US through like a common walls become a common laws to covenant that was came into action in nineteen seventy eight. So of all our territories. The two Commonwealths that voted for some kind of official association with the US are the Northern Marianas and Puerto Rico and everything else is like a calling like American Samoa colony colony. We got a couple of covenants. So could you talk about how that Commonwealth is structured and what exactly it's relationship? To the US is is in terms of its local government. It's modeled after the United States. It has like a governor. It has a bicameral legislature. And then it has a like a district court, but just as far as like how it's relates to the United States. They created a covenant in nineteen seventy eight that like lays out what land the navy can like us and other basically says how that northern very on islanders will be represented in the United States federal government. And it's pretty minimal like they have like a nonvoting delegate. And how is it is? And he can or she can vote on committee that they can't vote on laws. The district court judge is appointed by Donald Trump. And like the Senate asked to approve there's different things in all the kind of loosely tied the Northern Mariana islanders into the US federal government. But unfortunately. What happened is once the covenant was actually signed. When like it became time to interpret the covenant that a lot of like US federal judges who are the people were ultimately like determining these laws. I've just decided to say like, well, the covenant says that the US is sovereign. So that you have has the right to like make whatever law they want. So it's sort of like this Commonwealth thing is kind of an illusion, at least in my opinion, the CNN my is basically alarm colony to right. And you know, as you say the judges that end up resolving issues in the Marietta's end up being, you know, mainland judges in federal districts, right? Yeah. They it's like most people. I mean, even if you're like, a judge, you're a Senator whatever if you're if you live on the mainland, you don't know about the Marietta's for the most part and like issues for. Yeah. Issues resolving revolving around the Marietta's are very complicated and like specific to this super weird. Circumstance of being in the middle of the Pacific between all these different superpowers and like a Commonwealth. So these judges they jump in. And they have like these issues put on their table, and they have no actual reason. To learn about the Mary on his, and they have no reason not decide the federal government. Yes. It just for context. Could you talk about how many about how many people live on the Marianna Zain in their national origin his? Yeah. So there's about fifty five thousand people across the fourteen island to the Northern Mariana Islands in Guangdong one hundred sixty thousand people and the indigenous people of Marianne is called the tomorrow's I am part tomorrow. And it's like one of the oldest continuous civilizations. Still in the Pacific they'd been in those islands like four thousand years, and they've been calling is by like, so many different countries at this point. Yeah. The the Spanish with her the Germans were there the Japanese were there and now they're American right? So you have this population of about fifty five thousand people out in the middle of the Pacific who, you know, over the course of the twentieth century changed possession hands, you know, three or four times and ended up in this unique relationship with America where you know, they're they're theoretically sovereign to themselves, but are defacto kind of administrated by the the US government. And I would hasn't guessed that, you know, Donald Trump could could not point out the Marianna Marietta's on a map, you know. Yeah. Nice. Seriously doubt. I'm sure there's plenty places. He couldn't point out on saying. Okay. So could you talk now about what the military is doing out on the islands? And why it's shitty. Yeah. Still basically, they want a place new practice like bombing, and like make bombs working tenant doesn't even really make sense. But like what they wanna do is a so about like three thousand people live on tinian, which is you know, where the plane with the atomic bomb lead took off in World War Two is been part of the US part of the Pacific theater for a long time. But the northern third of the island released to the like the military in nineteen seventy eight like, it's like all part of the covenant. But the navy said that they were gonna build a military base. That was going to be like a re cook base like for families to come in live in it would be a hospital on that would be schools in a movie theater. Bowling alley. Some people on like a three thousand few island in the middle of the ocean. Would have never had right? So they were like all right fine. We'll have this base because it's a place we can work on we can have all these resources. So they signed the covenant and the US is like know we're going to build that base. Eventually and. It's like forty years later. There's been no base. And now they're like that two-thirds of land that we finally zinc we actually wanted. Just start bombing the shit out of it. Like, they want to shoot mortar as they wanna like stage in Fabius landings. They wanted all this stuff. That's gonna like leave behind unexploded ordinance that will contaminate the soil in the groundwater in like end crops, the people tinian grow, right? They wanna like. Yeah. And like the people of tended would be like hearing the bombs lakes. Smelling the bonds that like like kids are trying to go to school like it's tinian ten miles long. Right. So this is like literally people's backyard yet. So that's what they wanna do there. And then there's an island called Coggin, which is like one I've been next like the most beautiful place at ever been lax sand beaches green sword grass it's full of like like ancient Chamorro burial grounds in like crazy archaeological findings from forever ago. Like the got there. Yeah. They have a an active volcano. So there used to be small village. They're they're like one hundred people they had a co plantation, and they were making it work, but then in the eighties the volcano erupted and everyone got evacuated and since then people are slowly starting to go back. It's kind of like hard to restart a civilization on an island one hundred miles away. Yeah. Currently ten people live there, and I liked starting are there like awesome? But anyway, the navy has deemed the island like uninhabitable. So like, there's no worries if they just like blow up the whole thing, which is completely wrong. It's like teaming with food and life, and like Mingo trees like feral cows and stuff you could easily exist. They're all places to start a colony or something, right? It's a pretty good one. And my understanding of the whole Pacific island culture is this kind of thing is basically traditional of, you know, you'll live on an island, and then the volcano blow up and you move away for a little bit. And then you come back like, it's it's all hard to be cycles. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know it probably sounds outlandish to a lot of people. Like, why would you wanna live on a tiny island with volcano on it? I mean, that's to me. I think it sounds cool to I mean, but also like you believe with earthquakes there's hurricane John is just it's the local natural disaster. You know, like, I don't know. People live all over the place in stupid. Exactly. And the thing is like people have lived on that island for thousands of years to tomorrow people when you come to that island. Like, you ask the ancestors permission to land in it's like surrounded by dolphin pods. Sick like tomorrow people believe that like dolphins have the the the souls of their ancestors in them. It's like, it is a spiritual place. It's like the crown jewel of the mariota's. It's a place that people go to heal. They call it their mother. It's like it's more than just an island to the tomorrow's even if there's not many people living there, so and like the military wants to draw literally thousand pound bombs on it, right? Like daily. As of the the Commonwealth covenant. The idea was that there would be kind of a mutual relationship between the US military, and the people of the Marietta's in which the US the military would provide this kind of infrastructure there. And and, you know, live in a somewhat normal way on the islands. And then the islanders would permit this to happen and be part of America. And instead, no infrastructure has been built, and they're just deeming various places that people are currently living on inhabited and want to bomb to hell anyway, and one other thing that I thought was particularly ridiculous about this that you mentioned when we were talking before was that people were worried about their fishing grounds in the military said that they would move the fish. Oh, yeah. I love this story. Roseman send those told me she's like an activist like the head of guardians of any one of the founding members. So when the navy decided to tell everyone about these plans, they had public hearings and like you. Said the people of tinian were like one of our fishing grounds is going to be inaccessible nuts like super important part of our life and the navy. The navy guy in apparent they always show up wearing like Hawaiian shirts, like throwing out hang loose. This. On big cigars hanging out. A cool island navy? Yeah, they get it. Yeah. And so there's something like, well, don't worry. We'll relocate the natural resources place. Places accessible yet. Like, and like everyone I mean. Yeah. That reminded me of like Alexander, the great type shit, where he you know, you'd hear ancient emperors be like I will move the fish to new water room for my empire. Yeah. I mean, and you would only say let someone if you thought they were the stupidest person in the world. And like that's part of what's so annoying. Is like, okay. So the pupil Mary on his have been like American citizens. Philly forty years they have access to American colleges. They have like the internet. And like all this like it's like the navy thinks that they still like live in huts in walk around negro or something in their late looking at these people these people are like Americans, and there's nothing wrong with you live in huts, those people are smart too. But I'm just saying like the fact that they thought these people who are so gullible and so out of it. I mean, they must have just looked at their Brown faces and been like these people are stupid. You know, like, it's is infuriating. Will can we talk about what the people in the Marietta's are doing to resist this and try to prevent the navy from just doing whatever it wants on its in on the islands. Yeah. So the thing that the islanders had in their court was exactly what I was talking about like if someone's really racist things here in idiot, and you're not then you have the element of surprise is like, right? What they did is they educated themselves on the law that required. The navy to tell them about this stuff, which is the national environmental Policy Act or Niba. And the way it works is is a federal agency wants to take an executive action. That's going to affect local people they need to tell those people about it. So that those people can then if they don't want to have that happen. They can like petition. No, like, whatever protests or whatever. So what they learned is that the process is the navy in this case makes a draft. Environmental impact statement lists all the things that are going to happen as a result of their plants. They're going to say, we're going to destroy the coral reefs because of our Fabius landings, we're gonna we're gonna poison the soil, whatever just so, you know, and then the people come to the public hearings like they released this thing, which is like three thousand pages, protect, Nicole language movie jar and the people have late thirty days to go through this stuff. And then they come back to the public hearings. And they have the opportunity to ask questions. It can be like impacted if you're going to blow up this volcanic soil. This flow pods Alon. Puzzle on August. Which is the carcinogens. Isn't that going to poison the soldiers, you know, some right? Yeah. And then the navy after collecting all these questions if they haven't addressed that in their drafty IS, they have to then dress it in their final ES. So what the islanders did is through like petitions and letter writing campaigns and stuff it came to the public hearings and submitted thirty thousand questions. That's great. I love that kind of you know, using the bureaucratic red tape against against them. Yeah. We'll because you know, at the end of the day is the navy wants to to this who's going to stop them. Right. You know? So all they can do is just make it as difficult as possible. So that's what they're doing is. They're just they're using the system against the navy of any right, right? So the navy just ended up having to like completely retract they draft DAS in start over. So that was one way they managed to stall them the other they managed to stall is that they've reached out to this. This like nonprofit legal representation agency, or whatever it's called Earthjustice. Right. And they found this lawyer called David hankins, and they got him on the case. And he started looking at all of this stuff. So what David Anchen did was he sued the navy and said, you haven't been adequately transparent about this plan which forced the navy to then reveal its administrative record going back years and years and years, and what it turns out is they're literally like PowerPoint slides that are sent to like navy higher. Being like we need to move the marines like a bunch of marines from Okinawa Guam. Because the Okinawans hate the marines in it's messing up our relationship with Japan. Right. And when we moved the marines from want from Okinawa the marines need to be trained nearby. And that's why we need training ranges in the Mary honest. But the way that Nipah process works is that if you have a plan you have to reveal the whole plan. You can't, you know, cut it up into little chunks that up people aren't gonna get mad about until it's too late. You know, which is what the navy did. It doesn't make sense to move marines to wom and not have anywhere for them to train. It should have been. We're going to move the marines to Guam which was that loud plan was released in two thousand eight. So we're going to move the marines Guam and they're going to train in the Northern Mariana Islands. And instead they cut a big Fisher between the two plans and it says in these PowerPoint slides cut the plans into two or reduce the scope. So that we can avoid litigation. It literally said that so so then that lawsuit is ongoing, and until that is resolved. They're not gonna be able to to move forward with their plan. Unfortunately, hand can just lost in Northern Mariana Islands district court, which is like a head scratcher, but he's a killing to the ninth circuit San Francisco. And so we're going to find out if they're going to hear the case later in December, and we'll see how much sympathy San Francisco has for the middle of the Pacific just to add a little darker tone to this. Could you explain why the marines had to leave Okinawa? It's so bad. Yeah. I mean, actually just Okinawa hates the presence. Like the navy presence. US navy presence on their islands like they've been protesting for a while. But their most recent protests in August, like tens of thousands of people came out, and they were protesting in the pouring rain as typhoon was approaching like they are. And it's because the the marines are horribly behaved and most recently like the biggest upper was that it was like a gang rape of a twelve year old Okinawan girl that was in the nineties. But I mean, it's even if like the marines were well behaved these basis are just like horrible for the local environment. And there's really like the Okinawans don't benefit in any way, the only lose their pissed that they're there. And so this kind of gets into, you know, as you were pitching me this story when we met last month what I think both of us. Find particularly interesting about it is just kind of how it's of the kind of slow continual grind of American empire in ways that are, you know, feel like very nineteenth century almost like the whole thing around creating this arrangement with threw up promising treaty with the you know, between the military and the local population and then just immediately. Going back on the treaty itself that that's like nineteenth century Indian territories shit. Or is that that's at least what comes to mind for me. It's, you know, you know, right now and in courts that are being tried soon in San Francisco, you know? Yeah. It never ended people think it ended like manifest destiny. Just like chemical Sheikh know like now, we're in the Pacific, right? And then there was also something you were telling me about the basically the administration of the island is sometimes just totally taken over by the United States, for whatever reason in the example that you were giving me was the immigration system. Yeah. It was just like federalized in two thousand nine and a so it's like the development of the CNN Mayes since the covenant was signed is like crazy. It was like explosive exponential and heart of that was because they brought in all these foreign workers. So that suddenly they could have this big economic bubble. And there were definitely issue. Us involved. Basically there were some Chinese companies that were like creating like labor camps for like their own Chinese people pushing out like huge amounts of clothing and being made in America. You know, a Newark problems. Yeah. But at the same time like the US then decided, okay, we're just gonna federalize your immigration system. The covenant gauged the the islanders control of their own federal like their own immigration system. And with the federal judges said was like like what I said earlier. Pretty sure the covenant means we're so we're sovereign here. So we're just gonna make laws for you. So they the covenant was like supposed to be this new monce given take like bridge between two sovereign people. And basically the second was signed federal courts were like, I think we make all the rules now. So we're gonna just trash the covenant. And you know, that's the immigration system. You know, reminds me of kind of like the same kind of moves that involve that were involved with like the financial takeover of Puerto Rico in during his places and stuff like that. It just we sign these covenants and create these common wells. Yeah, they say some kind of give and take. And then it's just well, the kind of means whatever we wanted to mean. Yeah. And that's what happens when you create like a contract between unequal power is. Right. Like, what are you gonna do when they don't follow? What they said. They would do when they have a ridiculous interpretation of the original deal. Like, for example, the whole northern to tinian thing leasing leasing land in the Marietta's or the rule has always been if the navy leases in uses land in Marietta, they need to be able to return it the way they found it and they've been telling all the islanders like don't worry Plugin. Will look exactly the same in ten years. You know, you're gonna bomb it. Yeah. What have you thousand pound bombs ever due to the neighborhood? Exactly. So that's what sucks about like these little recently decolonized nations after World War Two. Or like, you know, maybe a few decades went buys like they. So did not have like even a chance, you know, because they had nothing. They had the opportunity to get some of the resources that these superpowers. And so they were like as long as we sign like a deal. The u n we'll have our back. We'll do all this by the UN can't do anything for anyone. I personally thing. So these people are just there in fake agreements that like rely on a superpower keeping its word gem. So I'd like to finish up here by talking about something that you brought up that was interesting to me was the maintaining of culture in communities there and one of the things that you were talking about was how displacement happens whether intentional or. Or not just by the fact of the navy being there right yet. So the Marianna is kind of like Hawaii for Asian nations in like there's a lot of like Chinese in Korean and Japanese tourists there. Right. So they have a tourism based economy, right and tinian is like even more like that like, they only have tourism. So if the navy's gonna come in and just start bombing the place like, obviously, no one's going to go on their honeymoon. X to a bombing range. You know, the economy's going to suffer first of all the people in tinian. There's no way they would even stay if they started bombing like they wouldn't technically kicked out. But like who is in the situation right now. Ten miles long. So just I'm just imagining like a massive bombing range in like Harlem in Manhattan, you're like trying to live in, you know, so ho- or something, you know, it's not that big of a place. No. And it's like you're erasing your kids. They're in new just know they're getting poisoned would use. They move right? And like right next side pan. Which is like I said, that's the one we fifty thousand people on it. It's one of the more populated islands. So you're going to be able to see the bombing and stuff inside pan because tinian inside penalty to three miles away from each other. So we got people already leaving tinian. Are they gonna move inside pin that's going to have the same issue. Because of like the bombing like their tourism industry is gonna suffer or are they going to like one of the Chimoio diaspora spots, which is to say like Boise, Idaho, or like San Diego in California Email like they're gonna move to the states. You know, as though that means like the diaspora spreads out. That means the loss of language loss community of shared culture shared experience is because of these expected outcomes of people are saying that this whole navy on thing is an existential threat to the people, right? The cold chain and to put like a fine point example on that. You were telling me about a person that you knew there who. Was active in trying to maintain the traditional navigation skills. So there's there's another indigenous people that like lives in the Marianna ze near it's like from like a migration that happened two hundred years ago, the Carolinians and they live on a bunch of assholes. And like they weren't calling is in the same way. The Mary on us were so a lot of their like ancient knowledge is still intact. One of which is really amazing navigation skills where they can get to like island said like ten square miles in the middle of the Pacific without cheap ES like from anywhere. Right. And so like very few people hold this knowledge in he has this school. He's trying to train the next generation, and I was interviewing him now. I don't mean to be disrespectful. But like, can I just ask you, what is going to be on everyone's mind? Like now that there's GPS why was someone spend their entire life learning. All this stuff. You know, kids such a good answer. He was like look at Puerto Rico, right? Cain hit. Unlike all of the technology in infrastructure that came from the west goes down, and then like those same people that made you rely on that stuff. Don't have your back. Right. There's like little to no aid or like not nearly enough living in the federated states of Micronesia, which is like I said, they're assholes. So like as though Shen comes up the guy that I know like he's lost like twenty feet off every area of the coast of his tiny island saddle law. Like Joe's islands is appearing. The typhoons are getting bigger when a national disaster hits an wipes out everything they have no reason to think the US is gonna come save them. You know? Yeah. So the to keep their traditional knowledge intact to survive in that situation. Right. Yeah. I thought that that was such an interesting answer for that. And does seem immediately applicable because the islands were just hit by two massive typhoons that cause significant amount of damage just you know, a week or two ago, right? Yeah. Last week typhoon, you U2. devastated. A tenure in Saipan and the power is still out inside pan. A lot of places. Some people say it's going to be out for months, and you're trying to get back there right now. Right. I am. Yeah. I mean, I'm waiting for like the airport to receive my flight, you know, it's like a lot of stuff is broken down there right now. I'm trying to go backing like help out. So it does it does really make. I mean that person's argument is is a really powerful thing to talk about the the way that the displacement of people in the destruction of traditional cultures is more than just like, oh, we need to keep a, you know, museum open or something. It's like, no. When when America lets us down, this is all we'll have which was particularly powerful to me. So what do you I guess to end here? Like, what do you? What do you see is the future here in a do? You see anything in the future of the of the work that the the locals are doing to try to resist the military. Do you have any things to watch out for them? Well, I'm definitely going to keep my eye on this appeal. Because if a David hankins in the tinian Basit Tierney kimberlin king Hines can prove that the navy where it wasn't like adequately transparent. Didn't like look into other options for how to do their ranges than the Guam relocation might not even happen. I think right moving all the marines to Guam was another process that involves paving over old growth forests and like basically destroying like tomorrow, heritage places. Right. So into this conflict, the lawsuit may actually save the day. We'll see. But the bigger problem is the territorial status question. Right, right. What's best for these people? You know, like an there's there's good arguments for being a part of the US as well. I mean, unfortunately, like the Pacific theater, it's a place where there are many superpowers, many predators. Maybe it's like living in a country where there's gangs everywhere. You just kind of have. Pick one, you know. But I would like to see personally what I think would like change a lot of these issues is like either these islands to become like independent of them to become a state of the US right in hearing, increasingly, you know, murmurs, especially after, you know, the hurricane of Puerto Rican statehood and just the of new states in general, which, you know, not so long ago might have seemed very far fetched. But, you know, hopefully coming up, and I think that, you know, a lot of people of certain persuasions on the left might be very gung-ho defined as many places as possible to add as states right now. Yeah. I mean, an as funny so many things bring us back to like the times of conquest in manifest destiny. The another another one, right? But like just to be fairly one Hawaii. He misstate when Alaska became a state they did have populations comparable to the current population of of the Marietta's as a whole. At least like yum, traditional Alaska, Headley, two hundred thousand people or something, you know. So it wouldn't be that crazy. But if people want the Mary on his to join as a state because they want they're hoping for like, you know, out more like liberal senators, they should know it's sexually super Republican there. Well, it's kind of ironic. A weird GOP push till like add, you know, Puerto Rico. But you know, as long I guess if the goal is to increase self sovereignty in any way, you know, that has to be a bedrock principle. No matter I guess how people vote in the one last thing. I wanted to mention is that before you talk to me my last association with the Marietta's that I remember during the democratic primary in two thousand sixteen for what for some reason for something. I was working on. I was scrolling through Hillary Clinton's website in her Merck. Section. She had like these Hillary twenty sixteen or maybe I'm with her t shirts, and then you could choose them with a in the state design of any state in the union. You know, you could get one shape. Whatever texas. I'm I'm with her. And one of the options was for the Northern Mariana Islands, and it had the outline of the islands on it, which you know, on a churches, look like six dollars. But I want that here. I know I was just looking to see if if it was still available. I it just struck me as like such a funny thing of like data driven statistical like we just have to make sure that every state and territory is be able to be represented with t shirts for this thing. I'm like I. Had. Yeah. And I can't imagine that that there would be any response of this too. Any of these issues to seek out the votes, and I did some follow up. And there is a times a time article from I believe March twenty sixteen that does site Hillary Clinton's primary victory in the Marietta's as part of her keen, you know, America wide strategy to Hoover up as many delegates as possible and how the her her ploy to get the two delegates or whatever from the Marietta's is, you know, why her team is so much smarter than Bernie Sanders is team, you know, cut it. It just pisses me off so much. It's like the people of the scene don't even vote for president, exactly. Primary delegates. So as long as as Coa like a convince you enough to to vote in the primaries. I'm I guess ours. The care goes. Yeah. Nobody cares. Nobody cares about these islands. But I really appreciate you having me onto that people can hear about them because they do think one thing I was gonna say the the the navy was doing the same thing in vehicles, you know, an island off of Puerto Rico were blowing up people's island and then like a no one cared for a while. And then finally like baseball players and like a couple like actors who started talking about it. And eventually the navy backed off and like, and that's kind of the us like one of the only unused tools that still involved in. This issue is like it is such a black and white like the navy is being a dick jive issue unit. And like if people would just find out about it like whoever's in. As you're making these decisions, they're not gonna want their name on it because it's evil. They're just blowing up indigenous peoples islands. Right. And again, this is I think it interesting, you know, microcosm of so many of these issues that affect indigenous people all over the country, and this, and, you know, reflects in smaller more specific way that things that we're hearing about in Puerto Rico and all those things so other than everybody who listens to this tweeting at US navy. Hey, stop bombing the Marietta's. Is there any way that our listeners can keep following this story, if they're if they're interested in it, or or, you know, hear more about this or get involved if they're so inclined? Yeah. So there's a website called immoral dot com. That is basically like has like a library of like newspaper articles. It's been following this like ears. You know? So David hankins, the Earthjustice lawyer that's been like representing the islanders in the lawsuit. Like, he. He represents. He is representation is free. But the activists who are like championing this cause have to pay all of his legal fees. So if he fly somewhere, they have to pay for his tickets Zsa so tomorrow dot com has a pay pal thing. You can donate to that. I mean other than that. Honestly, like if people can like write articles about it or Jarrett talk about it like Alabi, great because his so undercover d- like people should hear about this any if they have any curiosity about it. They can like shout to the hook them up with interviews in everything are you on Twitter or anything. I'm not on Twitter have a podcast like physically once I started getting into this. It was like low this is important, but I didn't have like any like -ment or anything like I teamed up with this do that had like a soundboard that was older than both of us. So. The like the audio is horrible. In these podcasts. I'm gonna be straight up. It's called the alternative zero project. And it sounds like crap, but you can make out the interview enough to learn more about it. If you're interested in bringing something microphone south. So that's one thing. You can do. Nice. Well, yeah, it was great to learn about all this from you. And you know, again, this this is, you know, fifty five thousand people in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. But it is America. And thus the continual injustices of America also apply their so Sophia. Thank you so much for coming on and talking to us about this. Thanks so much about any.

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