DAY 881: Trump's former aide Hope Hicks is first witness from Mueller report testify before Congress
Tonight, the president calls into Fox News, unleashes diatribe on some of his favourite subjects, including Komi Muller and the FBI. Plus, if Democrats were hoping for details from hope Hicks, they came up empty, but her appearance at least in the hallway got the attention of the president, along with those who want more thorough and aggressive investigation, and the challenge, the Democrats are likely failing at telling the story of the mullahs report that the Muller report failed to tell on its own as the eleventh hour gets underway on a Wednesday night. Good evening, once again, from our NBC news headquarters here in New York day, eighty one of the Trump administration and this is the scene. The indelible pictures from today. Hope Hicks on Capitol Hill to talk with the House Judiciary committee, not in public mind, you only behind closed doors and not to answer questions, the White House lawyers with her prevented that, but it did make for quite a scene. More than one person watching said she walked as, if on a runway unbothered by questions unwilling to answer. At one time as a public servants she was among the closest people to the president of the United States, representing our country around the globe paid for by tax payer dollars. She may well have witnessed obstruction of Justice and criminal activity, but that was of no apparent concern to her today. So here now the former White House director of Pena -cations. To the president obstruct Justice is the White House and letting you answer any questions today. Why is the White House? Limiting your testimony so much. Surrounded by attorneys her unwillingness to answer questions from the committee was because the administration has said she was quote absolutely immune from being compelled to testify about her time as Trump's senior adviser some Democrats on the committee dimiss dismiss that excuse. It was so absurd that we would ask questions such as where is your office located objection? They objected to any question that was posed to hope Hicks, that had to do with anything she observed or did during the course of her employment and the White House. This is an effort of the president to be sure that witnesses do not share valuable information to the committee to continue in this ongoing cover up to prevent the American people from knowing the full truth, on the upside, other judiciary committee members said Hicks was able to discuss her time on the Trump campaign chairman, Jerry Nadler, also says he learned a few things as well. But also implied the White House's stance on immunity would be challenged in the courts. Hear more about eight hundred hundred twenty minutes. She cars. Chances over questions. And. Information and the white as lead. Non-existent absolutely immunity. And that will not stay. Trump weighed in on hope Hicks testimony tonight during an interview with Fox News. She's a wonderful person. Well, she's been through hell. They put this young woman through hell what, she's had to pay a legal fees, and everything else that they're allowed to go forward with, you know, interviewing people having people like ho- picks and others. Having to pay for a new set of lawyers Hicks did testified to the special counsel team. Her testimony is cited over seventy times in the Muller report, including about Trump's reaction to the appointment of Muller as special counsel in the first place and the effort to explain away, the 2016 Trump Tower meeting earlier today, FBI veteran. Frank Losey told this network that her roles on Trump's campaign and in the west wing maintenance, more than likely she'll be called the testify again. Ho picks is not going away. You're going to see her. Call to testify in grand juries in the state of New York in Manhattan, and she's going to be a player for the next few years. Unfortunately or fortunately on our TV screens, the push to get Robert Muller himself to testify before congress could soon be headed toward a subpoena today. House intelligence committee, chairman Adam Schiff signaled that Democrats are getting tired of waiting to hear from the special counsel himself. He's going to have to testify, and you can testify voluntarily or it can testify under subpoena, but it's going to happen. I don't think a two year investigation of this magnitude followed by written report and a ten minutes statement without questions. Satisfactorily answers, the many, many questions that we have about the investigation. So I also think time had patients are running out on that front. The Washington Post reports the house intelligence committee. Will hear from one time Trump business associate Felix Seder, he is set to testify on Friday about his effort to develop Trump Tower Moscow during the two thousand sixteen election political rights, that Seder's hearing was supposed to be public. But now the committee decided to make it private because of his previous undercover work for the Defense Intelligence Agency on Russia issues. Meanwhile, speaker Pelosi's, latest comments about impeachment or raising questions about the firmness of her opposition. She's now here's how she responded rather. When asked if she would consider a congressional censure of Trump as an alternative to impeachment. I think censor is just a, a way out. If you're gonna go you go. It's good to there. You must impeach. Democratic congresswoman of Illinois Jan Schakowsky who's a member of Pelosi's leadership team is now backing an impeachment inquiry into Trump. She calls her move, quote, a personal decision on my part that makes her the sixty eighth member of the house to call for an inquiry now to our leadoff discussion on a Wednesday night, Philip Rucker Pulitzer prize winning White House bureau chief, for the Washington Post, former US attorney Joyce fans who spent twenty five years as a federal prosecutor here with us in New York. Emily Jane FOX national correspondent for Vanity Fair also happens to be the author of born Trump inside America's first family. Phil rucker. Let's start with the president's call into Fox News. Tonight. Re-litigating 2016 it was about Muller. It was about Komi. It was about the FBI about the Clinton campaign on this night, after launching his reelection. This is still apparently fill his Goto. It. Sure is Bryant. He is not a president eager to turn the page here. Indeed. He's digging in he feels under siege, and he said, it's much in FOX interview and also at his reelection kickoff rally last night. He said that the twenty twenty election would be a verdict on the people who are acting and un-american ways to subvert democracy. And by that he does not mean the Russians, he means molar, he means Komi. He means all of the investigators who've been investigating this Russian interference in the election and his campaign, and his own possible, obstruction of Justice, and we're going to see that continue. I think for some time to come. Joyce did hope Hicks have the legal right to do what she did today or better said, not do what she didn't say today. The best way to answer that Brian is to say that the answer will come when this case hits the courts in other words, certainly like any other witness she can come in a search she doesn't have to answer questions and then the inquiry that you have is whether the person asking the questions is really serious about getting answers. So we'll now find out whether Congress's serious. And whether they intend to ask a federal judge to compel hope Hicks to answer, Emily Jane, FOX, you have covered hope Hicks. Why do you think she did this today? Well he was legally required to be there. I think that is the main reason why she was there. She is someone who is a very senior member of a public company. It is still the folks where she works. She works at new FOX, which is a company that is run by a Murdoch son. It's a company that is brand new, she's the head of communications there. And there are shareholders who would take issue with the fact that a senior member of this company is being. Put in this situation and being thrust on the world stage. And if she was not going to comply with a subpoena, which legally requires her to be there. I would imagine that would be of some trouble now. Doing what she did today, something that I think only would work for the company where she works it is something that is run by the Murdoch family. It's a company that owns Fox News. And it's a company that hired her knowing that she was potentially going to be in this situation to someday. So I think that some of that is baked in, but I think she did the bare minimum of what she was legally required to do while still meant maintaining her loyalty to the Trump family, which is something that is incredibly important to her something that is incredibly important to the Trump family. And I think that is a large part of, of why she didn't go much further than she was required to do today. Though that may be challenged Joyce, just explained one of the. And one of the underpinnings of your comments, and Joyce's, if the Democrats, prevail hope Hicks might have a very big decision to make depicted team here. I've been racking my brain about this all day of which team she would pick. I did a story about her for Vanity Fair at the end of last year. Starting her new life in Los Angeles. She has a very big job jus just coming off of another very big job. It's hard for me to see someone who was thirty years old. Choosing to tie themselves to something like the Trump organization, something like the Trump campaign something like the Trump White House knowing where this could all head someday. But you have to understand this underlying loyalty. She had. So the Trump family, it is so strong, it defies all logic. And so, I don't know which way it would go at the end of the day, president calls her Hopi hoping this would be a big decision for Hopi and would test. Exactly, the, the strength of the relationship, you're trying to come up with the terms to describe, well, I watched it a close with Michael Cohen, who is someone who is incredibly loyal to him as well at the end of the day, the president through Michael Cohen under the bus, or at least that's how Michael Cohen felt and so that is what turned Cohen away and turned him from this guy who told me that he would take a bullet for the president to someone who ended up cooperating investigations against him. It's harder for me to see the president turning on hope Hicks. It's not impossible, and I think stranger things have happened. And I think that, that may be where you see some tension and movement down the road Joyce, a snarky person would say perhaps, all the Democrats hearing rooms are getting painted and they can't. Have public hearings anymore. Everybody's behind closed doors while the latest on Friday of this week, we'll be Mr. Seder, he of attempted Trump Tower Moscow fame, a business associate of Mr. Trump at all. What kind of things can they ask him and learn from him, potentially? We'll say, we'll have a lot to say about the relationship the business relationships that he had with both Michael Cohen with the president. He can talk about the plans to build Trump Tower in Moscow and the reason in his case for the closed hearing is because he did intelligence work. He worked with Dan, I and much of what he would have to say would be inappropriate in a public setting. And so as much as I think, we're all eager to hear public testimony in this case as opposed to in the case of hope Hicks. There seems to be a really good reason to spend some time behind closed doors with Hicks. The decision to go in closed doors. Looks really much more like it was an effort to bring someone who wasn't really certain. She wanted to testify in front of the house to at least set up that baseline where she would refuse to answer questions. So the congress could go on its way and get this decided by a judge. I see that as two very different. Situations in terms of why they were held behind closed doors and Joyce, this may call for a judgment on your part, but where Mr. Muller is concerned is his testimony, another potential case for the Democrats of be careful what you wish for, and can you imagine Bob Muller saying public absolutely bring all the cameras in? Let's do it on live television versus going behind closed doors. Muller's already made his feelings about public testimony clear. He's not a fan, but by the same token he's delivered his report and told us that the report speaks for itself, but the report can't really speak to us because about ten percent of it is redacted, you know, the problem for Muller is that he lives a little bit at the crossroads of this more traditional era, where prosecutors did not come forward did not speak in public. Only tried their cases in courtrooms and the reality of this extraordinarily unusual situation where the president can't be charged where there continue to be questions about whether or not Muller was permitted to proceed with his investigation unimpeded. He himself wrote a letter to Bill bar just days after the report was released questioning the attorney general's veracity in essence saying that when he characterized the report in public that Muller was. Left with concerns about the context the nature of the substance. How bar characterized all those aspects of the report, he may ultimately have to testify in public here whether he wants to or not full Rucker. You had the first word and I'd like to give you the last amidst all this, there is the business of the administration, another change in the Trump cabinet thousand more US troops headed to the Gulf last night. However, the president told his rally audience in Orlando Orlando, he was pulling troops out of the Middle East. So, what of the ongoing business of this Trump presidency? Hi, it's Katy Tur want to keep up with MSNBC while you're on the go. Subscribe to the MSN be daily newsletter. You'll get the best of what you've missed during this unprecedented era of news, text MSNBC two six six eight six six to subscribe. Well, Bryan, there's a lot going on. And there's even more than that. The president is headed to Japan near the end of this month for a series of pretty high stakes meetings with Chinese president. She to go over that trade deal, possibly have some sort of an accord with China. He's gonna plant he's planning to sit down with Vladimir Putin the Russian president. We all know how important, those meetings can be and how consequential that is for this president. And so he's, he's got a lot going on. He there's this conflict emerging here in Iran, and yet he continues to be so distracted and so focused and you might say obsessed with the ongoing fallout from the Muller investigation. He's paying attention to all these moves on Capitol Hill. He's paying attention to the I word as he puts it in peach mint, and what the House Democrats might do. And he obviously today was paying close attention to hope Hicks to our big three to Phil Rucker to Joyce vista. Emily Jane FOX. Thank you, for starting us off in great fashion tonight and coming up for. For us a magic, if hope Hicks testified today in public with cameras, present on live television, perhaps, when we come back, we will talk about the giant opportunity, the Democrats have right now, the challenge to tell the story of the mullahs report in a way the Muller reported south failed to do and later, why Bernie Sanders sounded almost Trumpian on social media today? We'll look what has him worked up as the eleventh hour is just getting started on this Wednesday night. The Democrats in the house wanted a big name they called hope Hicks, up to answer questions, she agreed. She agreed to appear behind closed doors where she didn't answer questions. But she made for a stunning hallway appearance, the Democrats have a problem. The Muller report is dense legalese, clunk Lee written as a result has gone largely unread. The president says its conclusion was no obstruction. No collusion. It, of course, says nothing of the sort our own Mike Memoli nicely summed up this problem on our broadcast about a week ago. The things that I keep hearing from judiciary committee, staff and leadership aides is that this is an effort to bring bring to life, the Mola report that the four hundred plus pages of the mole report is a book that no one reads, we have to make a movie. Remember that line earlier today, the former FBI counterintelligence, chief, Frank fig explained why he thinks Robert Muller himself needs to testify the gentlemanly civility of Robert Muller and his adherence to decorum and protocol and a-political appearance hasn't served us. Well, it worked, well, a few years back, but we're in a society that watches TV gets our news from whatever, particular network, we watch, or from our neighbors, or colleagues, and we need to see something play out in front of us. It's sad. But it's true. And I think Bob Muller absolutely does need to testify back with us. Again tonight is Donny Deutsch importantly, he's done branding and strategy consultation for. The Democrats also importantly, his new show Saturday night, politics airs as its title would indicate Saturday nights at eight pm eastern on this ferry network. Frying took me a week to come up with that title, twenty consultants I like it, it works. My DVR understand that, all that's all I ask. Let's take Mike memories. Superb turn of phrase, if I asked you to turn this into a movie figuratively, how do you make this report a movie? How do you make that guy? The star, I would challenge movie and say, it's not a movie we need to create an episode in ongoing drama. Okay. That's the problem. People have been setting up Muller and I call it post Malo depression syndrome, that this was going to change the world. And even if he testifies yes, it puts blood to it puts colored too. It makes it real that still not the ultimate silver bullet. It's one more piece in an ongoing thing that I keep saying brand is the overall Trump Trump criminal investigations. There's an irony that all of a sudden people going. Oh, the morning, console poll, all of a sudden now not fifty seven percent, but sixty seven percent of Democrats want to impeach the reason is because the weeks and weeks on end of Joyce Vance up there of John dean up there Dom, again, refusing to do it of hope Hicks waltzing in the ongoing hubris of Trump. Aficionados refusing to kind of work within our legal system. And on top of that, we have an ongoing. We have Trump is a unindicted co-conspirator, if what, what his the other conspirators in jail for we have the New York AG looking at everything from his philanthropic organization to the inaugural committee. We have money laundering. We have Bank fraud. We have tax fraud. There is a lot to come. So this Muller is not the crescendo Muller is not the day Newmar. It is one piece of hopefully an ongoing drama, a weekly drama daily drama that I'm calling the Trump criminal investigations often in the studio at four PM. Nicole Wallace invites you to her small conversation. Whereas I see it your role is tough love. What are the Democrats doing right now? What's the chance that when you and I talked during the post game show after these debates the subject of the night is going to be a social issue that zero percent of south Carolinians are worried about prior to. Their primary. The Democrats better realize one thing that there is one message out there. And that's Trump broke promises and it's about healthcare, and it's about the economy, not Trump's economy, but the rest of the country's economy that is not doing well. And if they start in like today, talking about calling tracing concentration guys, you are missing it, if they started in with slavery reparations, now, once again, morally, I understand it as a political issue. It is an absolute loser and on top of that, if they start going down the path, and I love Elizabeth Warren. She's a dynamic human being. She's a wonderful force. If Trump can label anybody a socialist that he's running against the Democrats. Lose big Democrats understand. There was one game here beat Donald Trump. We have a face of evil running this country right now, the stakes are so high and although some of the agendas of some of the far left, our noble, I you got to get the guy out of office. I'm a businessman. This is an eighteen month play. There needs to be a centrist in there we go to hard left without four more years of Trump. It's that simple. We have a problem, five nights a week figuring out, what makes the broadcast and what order. So it Saturday afternoon. How do you look with as long as these weeks are how on earth do you keep a whiteboard? I hope you look back and decide what your lead story is going to be, and what topics need to be plucked out as Conversely, I start around Wednesday. So for it's interesting topics this week. I'll pull apart Trump twenty twenty which I'm calling the two thousand sixteen rerun and the big issue is, is there. Trump wear out, basically, it's the same bag of tricks. You say and I think if that's what we got. He's in trouble. My other concern that this topic is everybody says Trump can't pivot, he's the ultimate transaction list. He was democrat before he ran. He realized the birth of thing was hitting a racist tone. He goes this, works, and that got him elected, do not think he is not beyond all of a sudden, coming out with a comprehensive health plan that to America goes while this pretty. Is pretty good. So what he's doing right now. He's doing the two thousand sixteen repeat to solidify his base, but I think, as we walk into twenty twenty you're going to start to see a state of the union Trump. So some of these are some of the things I'm getting into one other thing he brought up Hillary. I think he could start to turn Hillary into an empathetic figure that maybe we'll have a little bit of a place with the Democrats, you, you beat that so often that, so a lot of the things that work for Trump the first time around might not. So it's kind of seeing what is going to work and where does he pivot twenty seconds of time. I don't have you firmly believe our moderators should not be reading the live tweets from the president during the debates do not let Donald Trump produce these debates. That is the most inane pathetic week thing in the world. Just dismiss them to let him invade. These debates is everything wrong that the Democrats can do Donny. Deutsch, ladies and gentlemen, also known as the host of Saturday night, politics, Saturday evenings, eight pm eastern time, your DVR will recognize. It is. Thank you. Thank you, brother. Thank you for being here. Coming up. Why Elizabeth Warren's steady momentum is bad news for at least one other top tier candidate. When we come back. Massachusetts, Senator Elizabeth Warren, gaining ground right now at least in the twenty twenty race. A new Monmouth poll out just today puts her ahead of Bernie Sanders by one percentage point both are still trailing. Former vice president, Joe Biden moron him in a bit. Politico explains Warren's bump this way, quote, there was a time not so long ago when leading Democrats warned that Elizabeth Warren's fantasy based blue state populism, wrist leading the party to ruin but in a revealing tell of how far her campaign has come since it's early February launch some unlikely voices in the center of the party are growing more comfortable with the idea of Warren as the nominee her surge at least a small one prompted Sanders to call out the so-called establishment on social media in almost Trumpian style, quote the cat is out of the bag. The corporate wing of the Democratic Party is publicly anybody. But Bernie, they know our progressive agenda of Medicare for all breaking up. Big banks. Taking on drug companies and raising wages is the real threat to the billionaire class. Well with us tonight to talk about it. Shannon petty peace, White House correspondent for Bloomberg and Eugene, Scott political reporter for the Washington Post, welcome to you. Both shannon. Let's full disclosure here. No polls matter at all right? Now, they're just they give us something to talk about. And it's interesting. And Donny Deutsch who was our previous guests said this week on the air if Warren's the nominee, they'll lose forty eight states. So do you concur? This is just kind of the intramural thing we can discuss. Well, so pull do and they don't matter. So I've been talking to people Republican strategists people in the campaign. They all tell me don't pay attention to the polls. Look at, when Walter Mondale was winning at this time all those years ago, they say, look at where Donald Trump was in the polls at this time for years ago, don't pay attention to them yet. When Elizabeth Warren started creeping up the polls this week. I started hearing from them that they were shifting resources to Elizabeth Warren to researching her background and doing Otto on her. That's the type of pull that got her attention. The head to head polls against Trump. The Democrats say pay no attention to, but these polls, they've been looking at the democratic field and Elizabeth Warren rise certainly got Republicans attention. And people in the Trump campaign's attention this week Eugene. There is another sidebar topic. I'm going to put the polling back on the screen. We there are entire cable networks that talk about this stuff all day. These are three need columns of numbers on the left some numbers. That are two digits, and then it drops off a cliff. You get about the Yang neighborhood into diplomacy o Gabbard Inslee you're down to one percent center column, and then the zeros including a democrat, who's one governorship in a red state with a Big Sky, a democrat from Rocky Mountain state, and Eric swallow, who makes us many daily television appearances as some people on popular farmer commercials. Eugene is an article of faith back to column. One that Warren's numbers come out of the Bernie Sanders Bank account. That's not what the data says in that poll, right there. We know that they're liberals who really want to back Warren who are listening to her who are entertaining the policy ideas. She's putting forward that we don't necessarily see where people who were backing Sanders previously. I think what we have it's voters coming into this. Election cycle just really open to ideas and looking at multiple candidates, they hadn't chosen Sanders before and switching to warn, but they're discovering that Warren, perhaps, isn't who her critics have said she was there discovering that, perhaps, they didn't pay that much attention to warn prior to this election. Because they weren't that invested in maybe a Massachusetts politics or other issues that they found to be relevant to them, and they're just entertaining now, new ideas, hoping to find someone that they believe can get Donald Trump out of the Oval Office. Shannon petty piece about. Elizabeth Warren, the question, of course, has has been asked is she up. Can she give as good as she gets because of the incoming fire though? No one gets the level of Trump preoccupation like Joe Biden. Yes, he remains a top the math, but the president seems to have chosen the democratic nominee in his head. Well, I think a lot of the attacks on Biden have been driven by some of the internal polling numbers that the Trump campaign and those close to the president have been getting into this point, that pulls matter, but they don't. You know, Biden appeared to be the democrat who could take the president on in the states that really mattered Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan. Those, you know, there's, there's a number of swing states with those are the ones that the Republicans are really closely watching, and in those states, Biden was within the margins or leading the president and a lot of polls, so that created a lot of anxiety there. But the Elizabeth Warren search as I was saying has gotten their attention. And she has some things that the Trump campaign has said they felt were the president's biggest assets, and that if there was an opponent, who had those they could be a real threat, and that's authenticity. And a clear message you know who she is, you know who you stay who she stands for. She might not be out of central casting, but she is authentic, and you might not always agree with her message, but you know what it is. And that's something that in the back of their minds. They have been saying that as a concern of theirs that candidate will come along with those qualities good point will may. Both of our guests have agreed to stay with us on the other side of the break Eugene, I'm coming to you to talk about. Joe Biden tonight. And when we come back can the Democrats find a message other than anyone, but Trump to win over their voters and their base? This election is a verdict on whether we want to live at a country where the people who lose an election refused to concede and spend the next two years, trying to shred our constitution and rip your country apart. If you wanna know how the system is Rick. Just compare how they came after us for three years with everything they have versus the free pass. They gave to Hillary at her aides. Our radical democrat opponents are driven by hatred prejudice and rage. They want to destroy you and they want to destroy our country as we know it, perhaps, you detected the grievances there. The president launching is twenty twenty reelection campaign with choice words for the Democratic Party along with plenty of callback to the twenty sixteen campaign. So importantly, that's the world Democrats woke up to this morning. Back with us. Shannon petty piece Eugene, Scott, by the way, and you gene, then the news blew up of Joe Biden at an event last night for those who haven't followed the story. Please walk us through what he said and the hubbub when you're done doing that will show, folks, what Biden said tonight. Sure, we'll Joe Biden was at a fundraiser in New York City last night, trying to reach out to potential donors letting them know that he would not govern the way we just saw the president communicating to his supporters. He wants to be a unifier, not a divisive president, and he looked, he, he shot back and pointed back, should, I'd say to his career in the Senate, and noted that he has worked with people. He viewed very differently politically, including some white supremacists. Some segregationists some lawmakers who advocated for policies, they did not. Benefit black Americans, or people who just were not white men, and he's gotten quite a bit of pushback for that, including from other people running for president and others. Individuals even across the aisle. Who think that the former vice president has romanticized these individuals? Yeah. He said among his other comments, these senators didn't call him boy, but they called him son. His point was, I think that he was able to do business with them. So this developed all today. There's now a Cory Booker, Joe Biden subplot here in order is Joe Biden has captured by CBS camera crew in suburban Maryland. Tonight, followed by Cory Booker, as interviewed on CNN. The point I'm making is don't have to agree. You don't have to like the people in terms of their views. But you just simply meant the kids in beat them are you going to apologize? Like Cory Booker has rows for corporate. Called for it. He's actually joins. He knows better not a racist bone in my body. I've been involved in civil rights, my whole career period, period, period. What matters to me is that a guy running to be the head of our party, which is significantly diverse and wondrous party doesn't understand, or can't even acknowledge that he made a mistake, whether the intention was there or not. That's what was stunning to me. And instead, he's falling back into the defensive crouch that often people say, which is Cory Colby, a racist, or I'm not a racist, which is not what I said and not what not what I'm calling him. And, and this is the problem. He knows better. And at a time with the Donald Trump never apologizes for anything source to create that kind of, I think, toxic sentiment that you never policy is never apologize. Never apologize. I, I know Joe Biden, he he's better than this. So Eugene, Senator Booker notably went on CNN tonight announcing this is not a circular firing squad. This is not what that's about knowing that people on networks like this one go on and say there, go, the Democrats, it's a circular firing squad. Indeed. But I think the point he really wanted to make is pushing back on Joe Biden's claim that, that working environment was a civil when, when he collaborated with these white supremacists. Lawmakers the reality is this was not a civil environment for the black Americans who were represented by these lawmakers who want it to see policies promoted and supported that made their. Their lives better. And that's not what Biden spoke to. He did not even address, just how difficult of a time these individuals, had in terms of what impact they left on their constituents, and I think another important point is right now, we have an incredibly divided congress, and we're seeing people on both sides of the aisle, an unable to work together because they have different world views I don't think what we see from the democratic base is voters looking for someone who can work across the out. They're looking for someone who will bony. Call out evil and bad intentions, and racism, and sexism, when they see it and Joe Biden and didn't do that today. And that is why so many people from within his own party have expressed concern. Shannon, number one. Why bring up these two guys? They were separatists and number two Shannon was the correct answer that I was one in one hundred we had to get work done. So it means you have to work with all kinds of unsavory people. Well, I don't know. Why Joe Biden decided to go here because again, what is your what is your message? What are you trying to get across? And if the message is trying to be I think we've, we're trying to dissect, what's going on here, this idea of civility that I'm going to be, you want a candidate, who's going to be this warm blanket and going to bring you back to this other time when we all got along, it's almost similar to that. Let's make America great. Again. Win was America great. Let's go back to this era where we all got along. And of course, there are many people in any of those periods who will say, that's not what America was great. And we weren't all getting along to the way Eugene, so we'll articulated, but in Trump world where my brain lives, this is what? They have been waiting for. And I know they're saying this is not a circular firing squad, but it is. And it is going to be for the next, you know, eight nine twelve months until we can get a democratic nominee. And that's why the Trump folks, they don't pay attention to these polls because the Democrats are going to tear each other up. They're going to define each other. And right now, we just have sort of a almost a fictitious candidate even Joe Biden, who you think we know we know vice president, Joe Biden, and we know Joe Biden in two thousand nine do we Joe no president, Joe Biden. Do we know candidate Joe Biden, and so there's so much definition that's going to happen on these Democrats, and you're going to see the ones below those ones who are struggling to break, that single digit, like Cory Booker being the first to come out and sort of lob those attacks? And it's working for him. Look at all the attention. He's finally gotten that he had a beginning. That's where the sort of churn is gonna come from, and these poll numbers additionally, bud in the time he's been away. Welcome to the new era of outrage and instant reaction. Thank you both for your answers. Your thoughtful analysis, Shannon petty piece Eugene, Scott, pleasure to have you both on the broadcast tonight coming up the road to Miami. Takes us to a state where a world famous fish fry can help make or break a presidential hopeful. When we come back. We are now just one week out from the first presidential democratic debate here on this very network. We're continuing our series, the road to Miami, where Miami Steve Kornacki is traveling along busy. I ninety five to tell us everything we need to know about the states along the way last night. Steve was in North Carolina. Tonight, the deeper, south. The accent gets deeper. The air becomes more humid as he's crossed into the Powell meadow, state, South Carolina back at the big board tonight on national political correspondent, Steve Kornacki, Steve. I'm overdressed at this point. Bright is sweltering out there as we hit the Pell meadow state, here we are in Charleston, South Carolina. The famous pineapple fountain in Charleston home of the Charleston river dogs baseball team, the college of Charleston Cougars, and of course, Charleston, South Carolina is also the hometown of the most famous unsuccessful candidate in a South Carolina presidential primary, who am I talking about I'm talking about Stephen Colbert. You remember this? So it's two thousand eight he was at comedy, central South Carolina democratic primary. Of course, always very important in presidential races. In Kobe said, you know what I'm going to run in the South Carolina democratic primary as a favorite son candidate here he is declaring his candidacy up the road in Columbia here. He is he got on meet the press. He put down twenty five hundred dollars to get his name on the ballot. And then the state democrat said, no, we're not going to put your name there. The vote was thirteen to three and that was the end of the Stephen Colbert, presidential campaign back in two thousand eight it would have been South Carolina only campaign. Okay. So let's talk about cater to, to actually are going to be on the presidential ballot in South Carolina that critical I in the south primary coming up early next year a bunch of Democrats are going to be there this week this weekend. It's grim zero for the democratic campaign state convention, state party dinner, and I think the most important of it may be this. The Jim Clyburn, fish fry Jim Clyburn, you know, him nationally, as one of the top Democrats, in, that was he is also Mr.. South Carolina democratic politics. He's been in congress for nearly three decades. He's holding this event all the candidates are going to be there, because, you know what Jim Clyburn for you. Ideally, if you're a candidate for president running in South Carolina's primary, but you definitely don't want him against you and what I mean by that is the famous story. It was the Clinton Obama race in two thousand eight remember this when it came to South Carolina, Hillary Clinton, thought Sheena shot down there. She thought she had a shop, because the polls early on had a competitive race. She and her husband had a lot of relationships, especially with black leaders that went back to his presidency thought had a chance to win the primary there. But in the days leading up that South Carolina primary in two thousand eight Bill Clinton started attacking Barack Obama. It started to get ugly, and Jim Clyburn, who was officially neutral in that race. He spoke up and he told Bill Clinton, he said chill how Bill Clinton? He also got this line off. This was in the ninety s when Clinton was president Tony Morrison. It said he's the first black president. Jim Clyburn said, we're still. Looking for the first black president? That was back in two thousand eight that had an effect Hillary Clinton's numbers crashed in South Carolina. Bill Clinton had a lot of damage to make up for. But this was the primary result suddenly a close race became a thirty point blowout for Obama in this was the big significance to in South Carolina. No, it Obama that almost eighty percent of the black vote in South Carolina. That was the night. You knew not only about and have a real shot at the nomination. But he had a real shot at winning support like this among black voters everywhere transformed his campaign, had a lot to do with, how that campaign went in South Carolina, and it had something to do with Jim Kleiber Steve. We cannot wait for your trip to continue on south, thank you so much coming up for us. If your friends are people, you met in politics, you may need actual friends. Instead. Last thing before we go tonight, politics, isn't incredible business there. They were last night in Orlando. Marco Rubio, and Lindsey Graham, president calls them Lindsey Graham. It's all well, nothing to see here, love this guy at the podium, Donald Trump. But then our friends at deadline White House with Nicole Wallace felt it was their civic duty today to put something together just to remind us in this crazy business of politics, where we've been the brief history of Donald Trump Marco Rubio, and Lindsey Graham. It's rubio. He's always calling me little Marco, and made the guy, he's taller than me, like six to which is why I don't understand why his hands or the size of someone who's five to have you seen his, he says that I'm sweating all the time. It's hot in here. My sweating now. No. All right. He doesn't sweat he doesn't sweat because his pores clogged from the spray tan that he used to sky Lindsey Graham, you have a guy. He's one of the dumbest human beings I've ever seen. I think Lindsey Graham is a disgrace. And I think you have one of the worst representatives of any Representative in the United States. Stay in the race just stop being a jackass. You don't have to run for president and be the world's biggest jackass. Have you gave me this number and I found the card? I wrote the number down. I don't know if it's the right number. Let's try it and you know how you make America great again. Tell Donald Trump to go to hill. And so the brief political history of Marco Rubio Lindsey Graham, and one Donald Trump, that is our broadcast for this evening. Thank you so very much for being here with us. Good night from our NBC news headquarters here in New York. Hi, it's joy Reid. 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