#19 | The Lost Teachings of the Cathars with Andrew Phillip Smith
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the one on one podcast I'm your host Juan today we are talking about another esoteric. Subject. The Cath ours. The catheters were a Christian Dula Sir nostalgic. Revival Movement that was present in southern Europe and northern Italy and southern France, between the twelfth and Fourteenth Century they were. One of the first groups to be persecuted by the Catholic Church for their beliefs for their dualistic views of Christianity and again. This is esoteric. This is NAS stick. It goes against the. The traditional narrative of how we view things today and honestly. However you think today derive from groups like this, so not a lot is known of this group except very selecting and. In my Esoteric Wormhole, which seems to be my life as of lately just a big worm hole, researching different topics, and I'll look into one thing, and that opens up a whole another door into another thing, and then another thing and. It's just as it's exhausting. So I came across Andrew Foot Smith and his book, the lost teaching of the catheters and he really. It's individuals like this. Who Look into things that other people won't? There's not a lot of information out there, but if you really do look, you can find. Information and Andrew was able to do this and really break down the catheters on what they believed in who they were Andrew writes a lot of material on the subject of narcissism and I reached out to him to really talk about the Catharsis because. It interests me and again it. Early Christianity really does interest me and theology altogether, and we talk about how awesome has influenced Christianity today and modern, society. We break down some of his upcoming work, and we also break down his book. The lost teaching of the catheters so without further ado. This is the lost teaching of the Catholic voters with Andrew Phillip. Smith and we are alive Thank you so much for being on Andrew Welcome to the show. Thanks what. So today I wanNA to talk to you obviously, because I've been researching this line. This line of research. Esoteric whatever you WANNA, call it. These different beliefs theology fascinates me. I was born and raised Christian so obviously all this heresies got. My mind going crazy, and I just find it. So. So you know so crazy that these believes that these people had and. and. How they were. Persecuted as well for these beliefs you know to the extent where there some somewhere around wiped out and. Again it's. It's fascinating. So I wanted to ask you and I wanted to start off with this first of all. Can you tell people where they can find your work? You've written numerous books, and if I'm not mistaken, you have A. You had a magazine or you're on a website. The NAS tech I believe Can you tell the people where they can find your work? Asha and I have a creaky. Websites and the second lost the nineties. Go the Andrew Phillip Smith DOT COM says one would to AL's fetter. Also have a small. Publishing Company crass. The press one would. And the Hyphen nonstick. Dot Com Oxygen of that it is defense. Rule? Publishing another issue, but it doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon. But the existing six issues still imprint. Square bound solid. Slaps of Boston says. Quite a range of materials. Interviews with everybody from. Academics to experimental musicians. OSTRACISM article fiction. Had Lots of fun doing that. Able to get them in the states Andrew. Just order to Amazon's the. Just. Okay I'll check. That out, than. So I wanted to start off with this question. Ask it to everyone who comes on the podcast and leaves the question. We don't get enough. who is Andrew Philip Smith. Sh, thought you can ask the question about. Shaving. Though in for the ending. Who is? Well. That's my name. But is more intact than that. Feel free to elaborate. Well. I'm Welsh. He knows what Wales's but So why does the? West in. Parts of. Great Britain and it's a separate country. It's a country that isn't a state, so you know. The United Kingdom is England's while Scotland and organizing. That Seoul started gasol very shaky grounds with the. EU Withdraw Royal Sculpture and everything, but said so I. Lift Away for about seventy years ten years and ten years in northern California in ten years, islands and Just two years ago, I moved back and. With my wife, and at the moment by grown up, son, we're. Living in the house that dates back to the end of the Eighteenth Century Autumn Mile from where it was actually bold, and and this kind of all. Area which used to be a village, but it got absorbed by. The town of Barry which Grafton industrial vote. and. There's some traditions in the area. There's some folklore about a aware will. who was cursed by a witch, and there was a family visits who buried in the local church, and when in Jenkins visit his. His mother was winch into the The folklore and it's this funding instead of in-between area that now it's you know, very. Urban but goes back. Further than the. The the rest of Barry and The Romans were here they have. Docks, in Barry in remedy ribs. So You know how it is sometimes when you grow up into place, and you just take it for granted the most boring place you can think of when you just want to get away. Then I've come back to it and discovered. It's a lot more interesting than give credit. And so. I would describe myself as an ESOTERICISM. People, often ask me. Are you a nasty and I usually kind of would my way around that by saying. I'm happy people. Call me in state but to. Make any. Break claims. Myself About it that International Systems, the subject to most of my books Wickham novel at the moment actually. With, which is very explicitly. State. and Go Jeff were was a big part of my adult life. That I'm interested magic this well And I'm sitting in my study. Penalty every. Wall has. Filled bookshelves basically. Looking around the. Wide Range of Esa teco. For Two rows of alchemy books. Some Young To massive bookshelves magical stuff, not too massive bookshelves sort of the. Christian History Austin stuff. So An Esoteric Sisters while I'm happy with. Writer as well. this new novel that you're on Is it. Fiction Nonfiction Can you tell a little bit about that? Can you even talk about it? I'm I I will catch a little bit bit run because I'm in the middle of doing it. Elected said. Yeah Yeah. Explicitly, stated rather than unit, using some structures of Boston in. The Matrix stay at or Something like that. It's actually about so young guy who Gets the moment. Gets lasted ancient manuscripts and gets involved with nonstick roof in London. And Gets the idea that From the group that he might be covering nation of Simon, Magus and he goes out looking for. Having his. Prostitutes the. Russell I. Don't know if you know that. The Story of Simon Magus I've heard of it, but I'm not familiar with it. No, yeah, well. This you. Know if you grew up Christian, you know about Simon Medicos from acts of the apostles. by He tried to buy. His Way. To Christianity was offering many to get to. Spiritual favors and that's the two Siamese. Used within the church. The cry of. Pain. Special favors of special office. But some. Say That Andrews Ardent trump because that sounds like. Sounds like the church. Well. When you get religion and many. They combined in many interesting ways. Yes, yes, yeah, exactly and that's. That's my problem with religion You know the political aspect of it, and then obviously you know there are. A lot of a cult connections while that people want to turn a blind eye and Yeah, but I'm sorry to interrupt you. Go and continue. So, this is a much more interesting story about Simon. I guess. He was a historical person And he was seen as. The harass! Founder of heresy. By the Church fathers. Unwittingly some preserved of this information. For us writing these diatribes against. Heresies. Seconds centuries. but that's a story about says Simon. He went into a brothel in Antioch and he found Woman Called Helen Who was? The reincarnation of how than troy? Intern was this The incarnation of this. Divine Feminine figure, and so Simon to buy surrounds. The slavery in the brothel, and they become a couple in this kind of pairing. That's a quite familiar in Las Mrs. So in the in the novel. I mean? You get these other. Pieces of plastic writing which. Address the soul as a female figure who? Has Fallen from grace now. She's being abused by thieves and foreign caters the. A has to. Get Out of this situation. In the Jesus, so which is. One of the writings found Mac Hammadi mashing forty five. That has quite a. Meth the soul actually did a short focused that. His Co. another similar writing. So, been stranded in the material world. Having to Using this in the novel, but I'm. I'm trying to play against type. Imagine. This. Ground sort of romantic narrative. A woman being rescued by right, WHITE KNIGHT TO TURNS UP. So I'm trying to turn that around a bit and. Play with reader's expectations and so and it Satin nineteen nineties London and Late secondary third century Sandra as well as. Time slip. Aspect onto so I I really enjoying writing? It ended I'm only halfway through the first draft of the. But it's it's really refreshing to just be. Just. Sit Down Rights you know. Thousand two thousand words without having to look things up have to. Back goes. It just makes me wonder how different Narcissism would-be of. The Naga Mahdi was never discovered because there's so many. Texts that that they. That they quote from there, you know all the a lot of research comes from those. From that library. And it's, amazing. Yeah, but you cannot get some idea of What scholars thoughts about narcissism before the discovery of the comedy? So. You know the like to though the Harris Gis Church fathers of the second century they left a lot of information, but because these. diatribes and polemics against No sticks and other so-called heretical groups You can't be show how. Truthfully representing the actual beliefs, the sticks and It was in the knock Hammadi. Collections, and this is twelve code so. Script Books Tainting forty odd. Tax You can actually. Say Read you know what the fix. Themselves wrote admit we did have a handful of mosque writings before the discovery of comedy things like this affair, even division of the fun of John Gusto of Mary. But so scholarship is come on so shah. And which isn't without its own problems because I get scholars. Looking at in even very concept of narcissism, wondering whether this is even a useful way of looking at this material that we have the groups and everything. Yeah. Yeah, so you spoke about how these? Allah Gist, are however you WanNa calm you know you have. They wrote it from a bias standpoint. They say victor's always right history, and it's like Aaron as would write about optics, but what he would say were were. Things from his point of view again. 'cause they're. From, the Church so. Obviously. It didn't fit their narrative, so they're going to write what they're to right. It's going to be a bit biased as well. You have that aspect of it. Yes Sean. I mean seventy. The name's escaping me. There was a full century writer who was. Absolutely completely biased just ridiculous has its long list of heresies include like paganism. Is a heresy. You know ancient proceeded Chris. So but on the other hand you know. These These were. Intellectuals? As even has had his own kind of. Platonic Christian. Miss. which wasn't certain ways wasn't two. Hundred Miles away from A. RUSTIC myths and they can't. Absolutely misrepresent these groups first of all. The, giving you this information so that you can recognize what Harris is. Because? He went. He was stay in the town of the law in Franz, which was doing? Room time. Excuse me at the time. And he he went along to the Church that he founded Valentine Ian Sticks. Taking part in the ordinary. Church practices of the time and he was pretty disturbing about this because they. Were happy to go along with the. Orthodox. Proto Catholic Christians were saying that they read their own INA meanings into the. Gospels so he that was his impetus for writing about all this stuff you know he. He wanted people to be able to recognize what a heresy was. And so, if you die if he's doing that, he has to report them some more accurately. The. That's the thing and Lawrence. made a comparison to this. Because you're talking about that. They that they had their own set of NAS take believes and a lot of these early NAS tick sex they were. They were all underground. So is like one one specific knocks. The NAS ticks talking about the other. Our underground as well that they were wrong, so it's like they're going back and forth, but at the end of the day they're all. From the underground, you know they're all heretical, and they all have these different. Because obviously you know there's different types of NAS ticks and one. You know some a group, said this, and then the group didn't. agree with them, but again at the end of the day. They're all All their belief heretical, you know. Yes so Again, that's very typical, not only relation of groups. In all spheres of human activity from. Politics religion to asa terrorism to. Chess Clubs. Our. Groups and. You, know the. The much movie likes Brian. I do not know Oh, that's really west. Watching it said about said. At the time of Jesus and There's a or we called Brian. who gets taken up as the Messiah quite said against his will and. But. There's a revolutionary groups at the time and The Judean, popular, fronts and an innocent somebody meets the Judean Popular You Jin Popular Fronts and says no that splitters where the Judean Popular People's Front. And so. So yeah, you can find A. diatribes within mastic writings against other NOSTITZ and. That's. One of the things that makes him interesting that there was a wide variety of beliefs and explanations in every. Gospel caustic writing has a different take on. The Bus Dick Myth and How you view the world how you should view scripture. How The human being is. Made, up. Body Soul Spirit, or is it just Did you have different kinds of so all that kind of stuff. The what part the interesting? Side Narcissism. It never. Well I I can actually get. On saying this is nick section some exceptions, but it never really became. A valid mainstream religion, so it never had to deal. With. Finding criticism. Yeah Yeah, I agree absolutely so we can work this in in my next question What got you into this type of research and this line research? Because obviously ESOTERICA. It's not for everybody. Me Even I was taught. I was having an episode. Yesterday. And it seems that these last. Four episodes that I've done have all been heretical and I'm I'm all heresy doubt and. I'm hoping to to take a little break after this from you know Harris and talk about different subjects has again it's it's a lot of information I'm taking in, and it's blowing my mind I actually did an episode yesterday with Alex Rivera. Which I'm sure you're familiar with and. We talked to bought a lot. A lot of things and I was like man. At the end of the day, my issue with it all is. You know what is what? Are. We can't all be right. And again I'm not saying I believe all of it. You know you have these people have conversation than I can respect different beliefs. You can tell me you believe something you can tell me. The Earth is flat, and all agree to disagree and I'll respect your beliefs for that, but I want attack you, but I've had. Conversations with people where? they want to attack me. They ask me Oh. You know what's your podcast on Bar I'm kind of hesitant, sometimes that because my podcast is in just about Essel Tirico, other subjects as well but obviously there's there's a there's an audience for everything. It's not going to resonate with everyone and I. Feel that when they come across these episodes, I'm putting out you know every now and again about the theology and Abou- heretical things. They're gonNA look at me differently, but at the same time you know it's, it's the information is there and if you don't learn your history? They. Say you know you're bound to repeat it and. It's very fascinating to me but back to the question. What got you into this type of research? And how did you start? And when did you start? Because I know you've put a lot of hours into this? Yeah well. Last at South. A got into into that through Go Jeff were which is a vast terraces? In the the. Severity trying to essentially. and there was a a writer and teacher called a Morris Nickel. Who was he was of? It's sort of a Scottish background, so to all intents and purposes kind of pushing man Who? Cover trying to think when his phone at probably end of the nineteenth century, I mean he was in the first World War and He was a pupil of young actually, and then he got involved with Jeff I've to spend ski who was Jeff's. Chief pupils. Rights NS TARA system own right as well and he. Wrote Two votes called the new man in the mark, which gave Esoteric Interpretations of the Gospels, and so I find this really fascinating and. You know have a Christian background, but it wasn't very intensive When I was about ten years old kind of refuse to get confirmed into the church at wiles. Go to this Baptist Church a little bit then. gave up with that as well so and the UK is a really secular place you know and. Most by. School friends? would be atheists. But I! I simply keen on churches, but still you know and. I could see that something bad bible. and. So so I was very interested in this territory station of the Gospels and then I. I can't imagine that okay. I could read two books. About the. Scholarship of the New Testament old about either in general or about. Historical Jesus Gotcha kind of handle on it. and. You know it's like a bottomless pits It's a wormhole it is. So and it was A. This was. The end of the nineties when the Internet was really taking over, and you have these amazing email discussion groups. That were filled with the you know the scholars. and. New Testament scholarship and at the things. The subjects and you know as long as you get to. To. Sort of academic protocols you could ask anything. Discuss anything, and then as what one. Scholar Particular Steve. Davies I really liked his work the way that he approached things and. republish some of his books through the press and. But. Yeah, so when so okay, so as also I've always been fascinated by. The idea of sort of lost works you know like the Lost Gospels. Loss sayings of Jesus. You know these sayings attributed to Jesus on found in the New Testament and. Where they come from. How. How wailed. Represents Jesus might have said and how well the sayings in the New Testament represented Jesus said. So, so I got involved in the whole the. Paraphernalia of New Testament scholarship and then I came across the no six. INTERESTED NASA terrorism. Objective before the Internet kind of took over, you'd see references the stakes without really knowing much about who they were. Out of course I bought a copy of the county library in English add. The Gospel of Thomas. That's really very immediate to read it. You know it's of explicitly esoteric at it reads. Reads like an esoteric version of the kind of sayings, you guys in the Canonical Gospels and then the Gospel Fit. Fascinating extra on the so but a lot of the stuff. You know really hard Ah, look at this, and it seems so different so the new testaments long lists of our cons who ruled different parts of the body and these strange named. Abstracts entities who. The translation of these we had Greek names and neue protein oil. Or Yaldo, bosses barbarous lines. It's absolutely you know my experiences as mystifying. Fascinating those the demon. And all these different Again it's. An touching on what you said a little bit earlier, you know these sayings that weren't record. That are in the New Testament but again at the end of the day Andrew. WHO DECIDES WHO decides? What's canonical on? What's not canonical so again? The Church? So what? What's noncanonical? It's going to be discredited. Why because it's not in? The official you know text for them, and it's going to be discredited and again it just makes you in a way. Look at things in a bias form because when you're reading these texts. How much credibility can you give to them? You know and how much credibility do they deserve or or or you know what I mean it's. It's very A. Very interesting. Yes yeah you mean like sort of historical. That historical veracity as to. Who Jesus walls. That kind of thing, well, yeah, again, what fascinates me to like? The Church Says No, this is these are the gospels. These are the ones that matter you know. This is what Jesus said, and then you. Obviously, you have the other side of the coin. The Gospel of Judas which is also fascinates me which paints a completely different picture, but at the end of the day it's a nasty taxed so. You know what I mean. Can you even give it credibility because the Gospel of Judas flips everything on its head? Absolutely everything. So! At the end of that makes you look and go are these texts? Do they even matter? You know that's the way I see it so I. Do they matter? Do they knock but at the at the end of the day they're you know what I mean. Yeah, sure I'm in I mean you have to ask it? In what way does You know. Would they matter? I mean? I think the way to approach to Mr trying to work out what they're saying. And then see you know. Does that resonates with you Is it because you know in terms of Historical authenticity, the Gospels and the new testaments Bidwell demolished. Things being analyzed. Matthew and Luke. Basically two. New Versions of the gospel of Mark with. Added stuff And for enough, you're kind of mainstream. Christian it is very important. Infamous mainstream Christians that Jesus really did. Come down in the Flash, and really whilst the Son of God Radio Walls Crucified and. Read. It was a real resurrection But if you're not so wedded to these very neutral. Interpretations My approach has you can. Wearing different sets of clothes you can try. You can take the approach of the Gospel of Judas and see where that leads. You see what it's trying to teach you and then you can go. So the gospel of Philip which. Is quite different in many. Ways and You know when he was saying he was saying something about. You know that we have so much. Stuff out that thing and You know that's for real hallmark of our age. that we just inundated with information and have. More knowledge about You know all these different. Civilizations and cultures through throughout the ages than any. A station for humanity has had. That's technology. That's were approaching the. Fascinates me, I I also do a had an episode with. This guy who goes around ancient. Ancient. Megalithic structures around the world and he studied them and. It's crazy the amount of knowledge these. These people had at that time. And? It makes you wonder where they got it from because right now you know I can look your work can look anything up from my from a supercomputer in my pocket, my phone and I can find any information that I. Want at any point in time. How did they do it back? Then you know. How do they navigate? While they looked at the stars or holiday? No at the stars led him to lead them to where it was or. Even how some of the you know, the Mayans, they had such an extensive knowledge of the stars, and even the Egyptians and all these cultures, and it's like you said Yeah! We are in an age where we do have information available to us and more than you know more information. than any point in time. Yeah, that's that's correct. Yeah, and it said it in some ways I think. Many similarities between our time and Sort of a time of late antiquity so. The, Second set for centuries on onwards said. When the Roman Empire, Reached its peak, then to decline, and it'd already taken over the head of mystic empire is to being founded by. Alexander the Great and the generals that followed him and so. People at least in the you know the cities, the Greek and Roman cities. They have access to all sorts of different religions from different countries and different cultures so instead of just growing up with a local gods it. You know they had the Roman. Gods who Explicitly modeled after the. Greek Golz God's for. Asia even die nicest. Thought to. Come from Asia it even in Indian, gods things Atis and Siberia. The right mother, then you and the Egyptian. You know the whole Range of Egyptian culture. With the Alexandra. Spell. A Greek city and had this Masha. Greek culture gypsum culture. There's a huge. Jewish. Colony. And so it was very much meeting. Different Cultures with some of the same problems that we have now. How'd you? Absorb all that How'd you find meaning? When. You know the so just so much stuff sloshing around everywhere. And you, you can say that postmodernism. We got some very bad rap quite rightly. Emmanuel is better I find. You know has some many interesting aspects to it. You know that. The relativism and. You know the. Inability to state any particular form of culture is really superior to any of the. there's a quite. An. INTERESTING PHENOMENON AND then. It's having this effect on truth. so-called truth. We're living in this post. Truth, world and You didn't take kind of controversial. Example like Putin and Russia and the way that said that. These to. Counter narratives created. You know the credit story, but okay, this is why. This is how this sort of. Disasters happened or something, and then they come up with another story. Conspiracy Conspiracy Theories Andrew. Now, this is really quite while tested. And quite. Deliberate so it's a it's like. Sorry! That's why I chose Putin and sort of non. Example. It's a deliberate technique and You. Know political leaders in the West to adopt. Well yeah fake. Happens I can agree with that. I wanted to get your input on that when it comes to this line of research Obviously, there is when it comes to any scripture and I said this before there's a mystical comprehension as well as a literal comprehension and I feel that There's such a thin line between that because you have people who take these things as literal. Literally how it is, but there's a lot of symbolic, the symbolism and iconography, and all these things, and it's like you said. How do you find your way with all this information you know because there was always another side of the coin. You know there's. A. When we get into cars I mean you'll see the different beliefs that they had but yeah I mean. How do you? How do you find your way with all of this know? How do you distinguish what's right and what's wrong? It's it's very interesting. Yeah well, I mean. To experience. That's One side of narcissism the to happen really touched upon yet is the. Area of no says experiential. Knowledge of the divine. So. In contrast to faith-based Christianity where like in the gospel of John, Got To Thomas. Doesn't, believe. That Jesus is back. You know so Jesus hasn't touch his wounds in, and then he says blessed those. Who Do not see and believe. So fit. You know if you have faith you have to. Actually experience things. Just rely on authority. You know that's about the most extreme version of it. Terence McKenna talks about that story and he compares it to life and in life. You are wise enough because he was the only one pretty much wise enough to question it and this and this can relate to life. If you question everything, they just might let you touch the wounds to see and show you something you couldn't. You didn't know I if you had an a question. Because again, it comes down There's everybody who there's people I mean I'm and the states. This this pretty much propaganda almost that they just don't take what the media tells them, and they'll they'll you know they'll live by that and the cuddle that and that's that's what it is, and they don't question you know what I mean and you're right. It can be seen everywhere in the really. Set of scholars thought you know the the Thomas Episode and the Gospel of John that that's actually as of an attack on. The community that was involved with the Gospel of Thomas and the fake of Thomas. The Apostle. That, actually the author at being. An example of A way to deal. With. Spirituality through your own experience. Arguing that you touch the wounds you know It's actually that was an example of what you shouldn't do you know. They were having an attacking the. Shouldn't. Those who don't have enough faith. You shouldn't test God. You know you shouldn't test him. And in a way he was. He was like man I don't believe that I just seen this guy who was dead three days ago. Now, Bro, he's back. And he comes on, and he's like. Hey, man, you go but yeah, it's very interesting. I wanted to get into obviously, Munir nameless episode the teaching of the Catheters can we got a little bit into who the catheters were? Yes sure. So the catheters. were. Group several groups of. Christian heretics in the Middle Ages in the south of France on the north of Italy. And, so we're talking. Enough Thirteenth fourteenth centuries really. Thrived. They kind of seem to appear out of nowhere. And, so this is a region. Known as the long dock and which was quite a kind of a an Arctic region that they didn't have a king, and at and at that time France was just the northern part of. Today's France so the northern kingdom, skuld fronts, and then they had. Sort of Petty Kingdoms and local aristocrats who rooting. And it you know wasn't terribly hierarchical society, and then some somehow you know. From the limited information that we have seems almost from Noah is suddenly find these Catholicos. Who Wandering round, they have this different version of Christianity and so this is a time when this you know this is preceding. The reformation protestantism. And nearly just everybody. In Western. Europe was Catholic. You know the whole of Britain. Island, but the everywhere it was Catholic I bet you saw having these all little. As heretical groups appearing. The world ends. Who? Are Really Esoteric Not all that interesting, but That their leader was a man Coke Waldo than they were like Proto Protestants group who? In the sensitive area of northern Italy and I think. Switzerland. But so the cameras they had kind of nonstick Meth, which was very medieval involving. the full of the angels and. Satan falling from heaven. But it has this Friday bostick slant on it that haven't was just a spiritual world, so they fall into the set material world ads. The spirits of these angels got trapped in the material world. And Adam and Eve created. As vessels for these spirits. and. So the situation of humanity is that we have these sort of Spock's spirits or angels within us, and we're trying to liberate them to get them to return back to the spiritual immaterial heavily realm to restore it. and. You do that through becoming initiated Catha and. The Catholics believed in reincarnation exhibiting atoms psychosis. Which is reincarnation that means you also be reincarnated animals as well. So if you didn't manage to. Liberate you spirits this lifetime and go through to another lifetime Ab then you'd meet Catha. I guess initiated. Take the consultant mental. Ritual that they used. which involved the Holy Spirit descending on you and put you under certain? Obligations like not eating the. BEING CELEBRATES AND Wandering around teaching US Ketari -Tarian does well right. Yes, yeah. So And so the thing that. Day We're very well liked even five most of the ordinary Catholics in the area because They did. They lived up to the ideals. Whereas, it was very corrupt time for the Catholic Church in general and. So, so they presented a problem to. The Catholic Church They were festival. They're heretics said, no, just by definition then. People prefer the Catholicos to two menu, the Catholic priests that they. Came across so. There was the threat that. Catherine might develop take. Power away from the Church so you guys at number of initiatives on the behalf of the Catholic Church try and sort of situation, and initially this went bad. You had Example Saint Dominic was basically kind of copying the way. The Catholicos did things by just warm during. You know around and Tokens people and Preaching and teaching. So, okay you. They were trying to counter example. Beaten the COP at their own game, but that wasn't working well enough. and. Then, you have A. Travel who was He was involved with the setting out to of the Knights Templars, and also with the kind of. Development of Mary the mother of Jesus as A. Sort of famine almost as divine feminine faker. Maternal Theta Which? Is plugged a gap in the Christianity of the time. She which cost Christianity tends to be very masculine religion because. Jesus and the twelve male apostles. You know then. I all priests of that kind of stuff. So. By developing Mary as this. Mole, so more divine figue benef- Clavo is quite involved in. Making the church more. Attractive, so you know those were. He was something of an esotericism himself. Club. He's very kind of divisive figure for me really. But anyway so Okay, so that was on bad things, but then it wasn't working well enough so What they do, they go declared a crusade of the longer dock area, and the basically tell you the king of France If if you get your government to go down there, they can see any land they can seize can claim themselves. The. Basically annex the area to be part of your kingdom. And so this so this crusade. Sat Out of north of Franz down to the south of France. These were. The first time that Chris is being declared against Christians it in Europe the. So if they go down to. Languedoc and cities. Like Khazal. With? A each. Out The full the horrific aspects of medieval warfare. Atrocities and But I didn't. It took a few decades, but They basically wiped out. The native are stocky. wiped out the CASA's and. They say yet another. Institution to deal with the specifically with a kind of heresies. So called inquisition, which is You know obviously very famous, and then the came up with all these. Techniques of recording that would interview people. That have scribe writing down what the interviewee said, and then they would go and cross reference this. Interview with? Somebody. Else had village. They come up the list of names of these cows who are traveling round. And then. They would be headed to dive. You know they would have some kind of trial and be. At the state. and. The kind of techniques that they've developed became really influential and You know it's best for former to tell terrorism. And, so you know. Kind of techniques. Zeal the KGB used. Those were. Developed to to oppose the Catholicos, who were definitely very peaceful April. Yeah so they're. They're the NAS sticks. What really intrigued me about them. And the more I look into, and it's a wormhole. Is that they considered the old. Testament, as the work of demons dislike the Bogle meals that they saw this and and. They Aussie. You know they have rex Monday You know the the the fake godden. The rule of the Dino, the damage, the the you know nonstick beliefs, and they believe in again how others believe y'all way being the God of the Old Testament and the more I look into it, because they'll judgment so dark and has so many. Evil things. I'm Khanna starting to to believe that it is the work of defense in a way. Because again the more I I'll look into one thing. And then that's a wormhole, and that goes into another and I'm like man. Maybe guys were right and. The. It's amazing that they prosecuted a persecuted these these. Early Christian sex but then. For example, the the Roman Empire you know they they started Catholic. they saw the people were leaving, and then they adopted Christianity. They do things that. Work best for them and again at the end of the day comes to. It makes you think. What's right? What's not you know? But I just thought that was very interesting about them and they also. Can you touch a little bit on their beliefs? Obviously there are. With certain fish. Can you touch a little bit what they believe this? Far as the spirits of the angels, can you discuss a little bit? But attached on the. The message that they hat about the full of site. The angels Con Stuff, so it is very NAS thick. And it's. Pretty dualist as well and Do Judaism. Is a term the. Different things like. You'd think if copies in journalism in. A? Hotter. Do. That that. That Judaism's right Nostril Judaism between spirit and matter. So that their approach was the. World Material World that we live in Is kind of inherently opposed or opposite to the spiritual realm. Realm Heaven At that so spirit is kind of trapped in matter has to be liberated. And, they So when I wrote this book las teachings of the Catholic. You're not trying to books about the cafes. You know Sarah really good, but the Catholics, but they're all about. History of the Crusades. Of Jensen Crusades and. The and All the bliscoll dealing. was that going on and. None of them really touch stray much on the catheters actually did and. What, they believed practice. So that that was. That was the to defect Tusk, trying to remedy with my boat, and then you know so look it a. People later later on who've made of the cafes and start agents and stuff? But they Yeah, so they were kind of two kinds of cameras, the ordinary believers they they were just ordinary people who had very few restrictions placed on They can have sex have families. The The. The only kind of real practice that they had was if they saw a cough perfect, which was the sort of the? KAPPA. Elite! They had they had to give them a green called a? meteoroid meant. That was about. You know you could be Catholic believer. You could live without. Had Been Married you could live department about the married. Have Kids just live ordinary life? But if you became a perfect, you went to this consolidation rights. The Holy Spirit descended on you, and then you had all these restrictions the had to live up to. and a- incidentally when when you were mentioning there towards the Old Testament ten. Now. They didn't like the Old Testament very much in general. But it was the gospel of John. That was yeah. They regarded that as the highest you know scripture I was GONNA. Say That, but I wasn't sure I was never not is again I got so many things in my head. The ball up. The wilder when you have so many different takes. On them, but that they actually and so, so they have this structure So, if you're a perfect, you could initiates somebody. Gives them the consolidation right, and then they become a perfect. On. If, you didn't keep your vows. You know if you at me till you had sex so killed somebody, or whatever not only would you lose your own status as a perfect but everybody the you hit initiated, and then after that they hit initiated, they would lose that status while. They would have to be re Rican sold reinitiated. So that that's quite an interesting to do things because it's not a responsibility. On people to actually keep the vows to live up to what they're doing. and. It's A. Some authority based It's not that you're going to go through. You'll be put in front of a church tribunal if you. Eat Meat, whatever it means that everybody has placed trust in you. Is going to have to find somebody else to. get the on mental ritual again. He was like Andrew. Sometimes if it causes problems, because you know the story behind. It was This went back to Jesus. Jesus gave. The consortium to his disciples, and then they had that say that's how this coming off apostolic succession, which went all the way down to the Catholicos. The idea and Interesting. Yeah. I mean that's. That's the problem. If you kind of neo, Catholic today to. What you do if you don't have, you have to kind of that lineage. It's back to the ancient Catholicos. Or supposing that you could just say. you received the holiday spirit and another way started. The new started to gain whatever. But but yeah so. So if I in the console of medicine, that's kind of where I. Think comes together. That was the Scent of the religion really because. You have to stop the myth Johnson. What's happening with the tow desert descending on you and That's. If you become perfect, and then if you die in good stopping perfect, your spirit has got to be liberated. Go back to the. Heavenly Realm when you die, and and if you're not so. You have another life and maybe have the chance to meet a cath up to that life. But it also comes together consultants. Virtual where you get the the myth of the practice, a sort of social side of it so Jaylen together and another interesting practice that they had that. the Catha perfect the the elites. They had to confess. The short fallings in public and. The believers, the ordinary catheters they could attend. Listen to you know the the perfect saying. You know what mistakes made everything. Of confession. Catholic Church. So there's a lot to admire about them and You know. They were well liked by the ordinary people. At at and then because it wasn't the centralized relation, either everybody had their own take. And there were. That was one of the interesting questions from as for me walls. Actually it's a you hear so much about the Catholics in the south of Franz and being position. Of Shenton and everything. But. You didn't hear so much about the Italian cafes. and. I kinda quite interesting, but then he didn't have that same sort of Romantic aspect to the. People sacrificing themselves rather than the converted to with the next thing, and so that the Italian Catholic had lots of arguments. These between themselves schedule and Early early Christianity was very disorganized and I think that's those. The thing they search WanNa tour. Because again like you said, there's so many different. Practices somewhere more liberal than others and the end of the day. You. Know they all had one set of beliefs, but Obviously? It didn't work out well. Yeah I've never even quite. See logical these disputes. 'cause I mentioned bilingualism so okay. You got to do it as of spirits of matter. But then you have questions because it always been that way, you know, so the mannequins who were? nonstick religion who followed on from the ancient Australia quite widespread. Daytime Equity They had What's called an absolute listen? So they thought that there was a realm of light and darkness, and it's always been that way. And the reason. That the earth exists is because. Ralph darkness sudden encroaching on the realm of light, and that was ATL. and. The Earth is a result of that in the his A. Chance for trust. An apparatus for? Sorting out the light from the darkness, so that The lights the spark is for a return to the world of light and. Leave behind the material side of it, too, so like mannequins and the. cavs were often cold mannequins by the. Catholic polemicist the time, and so they sorted duelists, but as A. People look to you know these questions and said okay well. That's a state. Of the moment we have these two different powers like doc spirit matter. Count being that way for forever message being just spirit the beginning, and then something happens. the. The realm of darkness on the material whatever you recalling it came into existence, and so this is kind of temporary situation. And then the Italian cafes actually had a big disputes about two, which was true. Interpretation should reply and everything so. So that the not? Quite as appealing as the cameras in the Languedoc. But Anyway, that was just a little aspect catherine I wanted to clarify. Episodes. You mentioned meal Catholism Ah. Can you touch on that? Yes so catheters basically. Wiped out and then. With the acquisition moving in. A very difficult to have any kind of Sadat's not mainstream. Beliefs. But. Their stories of how the cavs might have survived. You know if maybe because you get you. Do get some auditees like. One Hundred Years later you get a guy up in Germany. I wanted to touch on the. Holy Grail. Yet. That's bit lighter, but that that was just an ordinary Guy Germany, who gets a it by the inquisition and his So, this is you know a hundred years after the very last Catha. Effect it's disappeared and Jeremy Has Catholic. Beliefs doesn't the term Catha thank. They didn't even call themselves. Cows most of the time and they call themselves the good Krisztian so the good men, good women and That's You know you find very similar things cropping up a little bit later, so people speculated did Catholic survive subway. Yeah, yeah, like the Nazis that the that they survived that Hitler's. Well yeah well. Nazism definitely something you that. It was just rebranded. Massa. but Yeah so in the nineteenth. Century You get actually people in the Languedoc looking back at their. Own History and It gets. Connected with nationalism. If the area you know So I'm actually nationalism is one of those words that has several different meanings everything from not Satan there the Nazis. Suggest wanting autonomy for your own region, and so that was the kind of nationalism that you got in the Lanka dog. France was being dominated from Paris in the door. And? A lack of south national that kind of stuff. I one of the phones the. In nineteenth century nationalism took was to romantic, Romanticism and The romantic approach to areas of folklore culture. The stuff, so they became very interested in the cows, and there were stories. About, how Catholic survived the this kind of stuff and this gets taken up by esotericism cultists. And you get these Catha movements near Nostra as well. Sort of. The nineteen, th century new narcissism itself. Sought developing in Transit Diculeng and so that's how they trusted story itself and Then, you get into the nineteen twenties, and there's this guy author round. Who Jovan in a sort of. impecunious, Romantic young man who's wandering around the south of France, succumbs fascinated by the holy grail, and by the Catholicos at he wrote. A copybooks crusade against the grail so he he sold the Johnston. Crusade is actually. Connected with the grail itself, and they're these nations' despite house, the interesting the grail was at the. Cost of Montague, this kind of stuff. It's pretty out there, but it's kind of It it does something about the spirit of this sort of you know good evening, romantic spirits acting so so he was, he was a little bit of a dodgy character himself. You know like he had. He left her all these debts to people. But the asa terrorists a twenties wandering around the dock. Vincent something come over from. England is all the. You know there's not meant as the the native interest. Of, people actually. Came from the IRA. So anyway so he. Publishes spoke crusade against the Grail and he. He got a letter. Saying by somebody said you know I'd like to. If you go to Paris pay tickets and I'll take you for male, and I want to. Have a proposal to you so okay you gonNA. I'm hitting the big time. Author! Ron goes up to Paris. And The guy who's making with Heinrich Himmler. AD He gets. It gets recruited into the non-military side as the. S, S, I think it is And given this budget to go. Do Research on. The grail! A staff which. A young man's dream pop. You know accept These Nazis! Because, he can. Say. No cost you know there's this hope to. Esoteric side to the Nazis. Everyth- oh. Yes, yes. They were into some some dark stuff, and it's funny. You mention the they thought. The Crusades were some sort of Sioe up to find the holy Grail, and there's so many things like that with conspiracy theories as far as why World War to happen, you know they talk about how it was the British and the German fighting over UFO extraterrestrial technology. You know there's that side of it. By fascinated by that stuff. It. Bunch of. Witches in Sacramento who. It Britain in a WHO who were trying to turn the tide about season. During rituals to try to. Help the British goals. So we're also okay. So he's got this budget. Staff and then. At a certain point he goes. To Austria he goes up. Imagine in Australia, and enough comes back down. He's he's found dead. Ve Exposure. It seems like quite likely suicides. Which is? Not A bad. Way To get out of. Helping the Nazis in. We'll to so so this kind of A. Strange story in. South Story Satisfies the second vote tally. That's amazing We can. We can wrap up with With just one more question Andrew. You're the first person that I've asked this question to A. When I made that trailer I had done it. in order to. Make it appealing in a way people but. Andrew is it okay to shave your face with the same machine? You use on your balls. has what kind of machine it is? If if it's like Lord, more than yes, go ahead here. No Andrew, one more time Where can people find your work if they want to dive deeper into the Catholic? And read your books. Obviously, how about the numerous books on narcissism? Can you give your website one more time? It's Andrew Phillip Smith Dot Com Andrew Phillip Smith's old one word to AS PRESS DOT COM. The Hyphen, dot, com and just search for name on Amazon Everton. Separate books I think is the. Most recent one was a collection of essays on all aspects of ostracism. Cold nonstick tendencies. That has some. Graphical stuff at the beginning that people found quite interesting autobiographical rather. just. As a translation of the Gospel of Thomas and asked Eric Interpretation. Of The Gospel of Thomas and Essays different aspects of Narcissism, and if you're looking for good place to start, I would say the secret history of the mosques If you started reading nostitz writings, and if a welded addiction narcissism. which will help you look coupled as difficult Greek words and the Ends you come across Lost teachings of the Kafka's. Says what it says on the label About Mundane, DHS John the Baptist in the last sticks, and the the Monday and so. Religion and ethnic group who survived up to the. Current time in Iraq Iran. whose beliefs are very dusty? The do these weekly Ad Missive Baptisms, Serta, say a colt of John The baptist. kind of I, mean He they they don't think. John the Baptist is found that he was an important prophets. But when you know being. When Christians were encountering them. Like this of sixteen, Seventeen, eighteen, th centuries and when you know they're living in. Majority Muslim countries as well so John the Baptist was awfulness of course to figure them. Say Look where like you an Abraham accommodation, but people of the book we have scriptures. John the Baptist. Okay, you know. He was a profit, too. But that there's a lot more to the British that. Perhaps, perhaps we can do an episode on them because I find that very interesting as well But Yeah Thank you so much again Andrew. thank you for your time. Thank you for being on and again. Hopefully we could set something else up talk about. Some more noces. Or harasses, you know what I mean but yeah, thank you so much Andrew. Okay. That's very much fun well there you have it. That was Andrew Phillip Smith. Check out his work if you want to also dive into a wormhole. remember to follow us on social media at the one on one podcast. also check out our blog. The one on one PODCAST DOT COM. and. You can shoot me an email you wanna be on the show of you. Have something interesting to talk about? My email is the one on podcasts at GM DOT com. And in next time.