Diego Maradona and Halston
Hello and welcome to the multiple coaches show with me bounds. We've been quiet on the documentary front recently. But that is about to change as we hit June the month. And some of the best doc oh, releases of the year so much to cover. It'll take more than one episode, but the two that we've picked to discuss today, a halston and Diego. Maradona Colston is the latest by Frederick Chang, who made deal Ren'ai. It's the story of the titular American fashion giant, the nineteen seventies and his subsequent downfall, a decade later, and yeah. Ghimire Donna gives us an exclusive limps of unseen, footage of the famous. Argentine, footballer arguably the best of all time, which has been crafted into documentary by Asif Kapadia, the maestro behind Senna and Amy. And joining me on the program to kick at dock discussion into action, awesome, critics, Jason Sullivan and Anna Smith. Jason. Welcome to the program. Nice to be thanks has to see fresh from can burn have fresh, but recently looking. Quite loving here. Yeah. This is how I feel like I'm still in Callum in denial this little dog chats kickoff documentary matches documentary matters. And yes so much on the palm dog award switches, they would the best canine performance this year. Brandy from once upon a time in Hollywood one and two us apprised that right to hunting Tarantini turned up to collect the award himself. Yeah. So spring breaks out among very. Little excitement, Reservoir Dogs was in competition that year with that count. Yeah. They'll suit accent. Okay. But today, we're talking football fashion, and we're going to begin with halston ano- kickoff with you. Why is he's a kind of forgotten figure in terms of the sort of deals in the quals and calls of this world who will see in was he could documentary think that's one of the things that makes this documentary because he isn't a household name anymore, but he clearly was very well known in the seventies as designer to the stars. They have LIZA Minelli talking about how his clothes don's with you in this, don't you mentally. So he was clearly loved adored, several things make him a good subject. I think not just the fact that he was a popular successful rushing designer. But the fact that he allegedly party hard and hung out with all the celebrities of the day, and he innovated he had a real sense for PR. He basically invented the hot pants. So there was a lot of press around in interests around him and things didn't necessarily go so well, which, again, of course, is a fascinating story. It is an economic story. Action. Let's play a bit of the trailer. To get our listeners heads around this his clothes Pitney. This is it. This is the fashion that I would want to wear. No sippers just get in over your head. And overnight success. It was a clean. Look, the simplicity was really needed after the sixties, and it was all American from an all American. Well, when you have Niko sound, tracking the trailer United, something might go wrong. Some point Jason, how'd you how'd you making good fashion film? Well, fetching chain really works on, on camera. A lot of sometimes you got lot of defeat. He got called fashion parades. You've got the big show. So you always end up with the big centerpiece at builds to some kind of dance move, and Holsten, had some fantastic Oreo graffiti involved in vase, imple-, colorful lines that the close flow is the said, LIZA Minnelli's that they danced with you. And there's a lot of Liza Minnelli coming out and doing halston thing. Some great lies, which is a waste good for Joel Schumacher in there, because he was a, a costume designer who is director, and he hung out with him in fire island. So there's this big gay thing going on New York. And these countless documentaries mythology is in the New York night of the nineteen seventies all around studio fifty four and course halston is their Husson Gucci fear rucci as the sister sledge song. And he was there, right? The center, the disco scene. So he was there kind of Minson about doing coke shouting at people, so the great character, and if he wasn't played by hosted himself in archive footage in the documentary had to get someone like you care to come in and play him because there's a slight sinister elementary because he's was a Bolden villainy hide yourself away, these mirrored lairs the top of New York, and has these women come in sort of kind of swirl around him and takes them to China in trucks hind. He's kind of a shadowy figure as a whole is just a name is real name. And he changed his name. He's a he's a sort of Gatsby Machiavelli figure who find his way among the Wisey going, where did he depit? That's why I wanted to see if he was so big and so high. How where did he go? Yeah. That's one of the things that was one of the Casaus balls. And the soft underbelly of this film. I kinda wanted bit more fashion in it, when it's a no kind of technically. Why he was he revered because LIZA kind of eulogizing us wonderful. Thing. But I kind of wanted not in another way. But to no more of that technique. I guess, though, Anna that kind of tough to do on film to keep people engaged. Maybe some documents that quite well recently like Vivienne. Westwood one. Did that really well nothing from that? You really got a sense of what you're talking about is in exactly the talent she was born with the innate understanding fashion in how it works. And how to dress people and also had to succeed in that kind of businessman this coming between created very well, exactly. And it's going to skimmed past that and seem to focus on, as you said the personality cult of his personality. And I felt that is very true. What Jason saying that he was ending Matic figure, but he just remain slightly Matic throughout because inevitably there, isn't that much insight into his actual real personality. There's low of archive ads, which are sort of eighties and camp. Not there's a lot of good stuff screaming into they're gonna guffaws. Yeah. It's quite funny. There is a bit about how he comes from the bias, so it made made the flow of it, and there was a real reaction to the very simple lines. I if actually aimed really high, I mean, the film bills itself. Versus big business. Clash Diddy, then sell himself out to the corporate America because he think he aligning. JC Penney's, really and everyone's like you can't have fashioning JC Penney's, and he came out with his very strong on the bench and how good at PR he was I want to dress America where a massive ambition and a really laudable one, I think if you've done a little bit of a good share, and then you're doing a little bit of diffusion, then off your one roll it out. So, and it seemed to be working. I don't really know what went wrong. It did anything wrong. He kind of with Neiman Marcus. We was some other big. He was third or third off. That's so you can't be in there. And then he was, we cut himself in Hassi cut off his nose despite his face. I think the implications documentary, which may come up later is that a drug problem may have been one of the issues go full out with it didn't kind of every was he was shouting at people, and your future successful you're going to shelter, but I think it was an implication, that, that, that his addiction to cocaine or whatever it was is was part of the problem with the way that he. Dealt with people in the way he withdrew. And the way he made that decision, which were not necessarily the sound decisions when he was in his right mind. I think I got that from that. But we did a bit of coke. Then someone says, what we didn't think that was quite funny because it was very clear. Talion design. Elsa peretti? It was pretty much. Well, we didn't go to sleep in nine hundred eighty three she was fabulous amazing. The most extreme cards is one guy that went oh. Well, you know, when, when I took seriously, I stopped intravenous drug use. Didn't like it on the plane wouldn't have it. You do what watching think. Well did was there? A massive is going to be a huge liquor as you say the top of this tower and he come down. And that's I'll make it all went wrong. When we went two hundred eight this looks that dismissal, I've been watching, I was watching pose the TV at the same time it'd be watching, and they're both mythologies of the New York night, I'm Berlin dismissive, and they can't put downs and that was the best thing in here. I didn't think that it did a great job of cultural, reassessing, his clothes, and putting them up there with deal won't. She will the other ones we've seen even the last emperor about Valentino didn't feel halston quite had that masala deal that I'm going to want to. I mean that's doing host and someone still doing the labor, don't they? Let's out and gets vintage Allston. There must be loads of it in sort of notching, JC, Penney's, basements, Boston. So I don't know. But I didn't feel all that pieces amazing question myself because I love clothes, and I'm very interested in era. But there was nothing that I saw visually made me want his clothes, which is very strange actually, maybe some my style suits people about six foot. I mean that's quite law, fashions. Look good on daytime TV on Donahue rather than on. It was mostly spatial. It was more as you say about about the bitchy put down to earth is also rehabilitation for a lot of people who loved your night Frederick Chang's, I film, they'll of come to this and, you know, I kinda wanna get in on this. So there is a strange thing because watching the studio fifty four documentary, there's so much halston in it. And hang out with Warhol and all the rest of it. And yet, being coked up sheltie kind of guy who does bond villain, all the architect that lives at the top of the tower block in high rise is kind of weird Spacey kinda do kind of the'real, you kind of this film tells you who he is maybe without tending you want. He was good. I supposedly who knows. The thing you want in fashion. That is the message because he came from the midwest, and he was called ROY hell Ston. Yes. Yeah. Milliner at Bergdorf great documentary about bergdorfs actually, isn't there? A good good. So there's a lot of these stories coming out of New York. And he's definitely parked. I'm not sure he was the most interesting in the end he definitely made a Mark on seventies eighties fashion. But yeah, I, I wasn't sure about what the full was in, in this documentary just as Phil. Do you need that sorta check -tory in, you know, I mean would go on to talk about Maradona in a minute people? It's a similar sort of story. Really? It's kind of running out of control with your success. Do you need that story documentary, whether rags-to-riches riches, Rex I think you need. I think it's all done documentary. How will they treat it? I think this one I felt that it was pops. More of a gift than was exploited the classic full situations into little bit hurried kind fall. And they didn't have time to explore it fully and didn't really go into enough. So it left me feeling little bit bits pointed despite the earlier highs. Oh, okay. But let down and I really enjoyed Antonio Lopez documentary and other ones in that sort of an area. And that's what space a lot more. More because I think they got the structure better. Would it be spoiling to say the day why he died? Is that a spoiler even that didn't really come up? I mean they didn't do too much on the aids say didn't happen. What so many of these committees? I didn't know how it was going to die. But from the minute open, you kind of knew. It's so sad. I mean, I think what's been interesting to me about what you can these committees is they all give an insight into the terrible as of McCain. How tragically affected that community in New York at that time, into finally on hosting in terms, the texture of we said, this great talking heads from Lowe's. Manelli and there's a lot of party footage and all the ads, the catwalk shows Jason was saying, there's also kind of like the funny thing, how do we sort of expose these facts? How do we do X position of having basil? Exposition popout of radio. And that's the reconstruction is quite sparingly with a goal, that's going through the archives. What we think of the kind of texture of the movie of the documentary, I think, as well enough. Done to George -hension to that, which I think, is the key, you need to be doing this. Wondering when you're watching you. So yeah, I mean it's because it's quite fast cart. It's in the spirit of the movie and spur of his life. The fact that is moving at quite Ajayi pace with disco music. And it doesn't pull too low on the resources to make it feel awkward or two sets up. So I know you mentioned it was forgotten about this will go just remember the ads, and the and the room finding she needs to do some more research. Hire a better researcher and put her on because I think DVD missed what happened in the story and it's a bit like, yeah, yeah, yeah, hold on. I just spend after spent an hour for building this guy, and that she, how does that work when you when you in terms of documentaries, there is such an unwillingness touchy kinda go, and then I went to so and so the kind of pre presents camera obviously, that's TV trope, but things are other dramatize we've tried to. Say there's no one wants to go back to talking heads. But something because I don't commend you, you always gonna put you'll foisting some narrative arc on and truths what you've got to do is create out there was making out for you. So you've got sift history. And so to say this, this, this, and this, and then you go to put your own reading on it, where it might not be there. Sometimes, I think documentaries force a little leading and fulsome characters in there with their because eggs, X or critics like are sort of the year. We need a bit momentum. This one, I think, sort of ran out of it and material that is hosted by Frederick Chang. We're gonna move onto g-go Maradonna, who doesn't need an introduction, because a radio show we're going to give him on anyway. Tinian nine hundred sixty came on the most famous football's on the planet boss, loan and Napoli. And of course his home country. Foamy scored thirty four goals in ninety one appearances Jason. How does Asif Caputo story of one of these of this let he doesn't and Asif party away? Heated center. I. South American sporting hero, tree style. He gets. He doesn't way with talking heads. Doesn't have people coming on. And then I met the this their voices does into people thoroughly thoroughly interviews. We injuries one hundred and fifty more people and it can possibly found camera to get the idea and to find the story with set of Amy. You had the story because it was a beginning middle and the tragic end to their lives with Madonna, Madonna. It's not quite still with us Maradona that we still hope de moten up at the premiere at can it didn't which made it much easier night for that would have been a all said he had right? What he's done is really concentrate on the era that he was in Naples in Napoli, which is the crowning feet, and it's about what I think the fields about, and I, I think I differ between as party and several other people, I think it's about the ability of one man's charisma to imprint on a community and the town. They married on our intrinsic, dealing are the same beating suppose town, Nava team, considering the biggest one of the big go. Owes exactly no one else would have display spent a fortune, which they didn't have, but a lot of it was Matthew money to get this guy there. And he'd single pun intended, brought them out of the rubble and gave them glory that they've never before, or since touched, and it was a savior story, and the places Sanjay is full of Saint neighbors, got married, Naples, had the four June stroke misfortune to go, there, quite a lot and trying to organize something area aids shambles office, but is glorious ruinous shambles and is Maradona is, as well unless film, put the two of them together, and I think it's, it's a glorious ruinous. Scrubby grubby fantastic Neapolitan film, many ways, and that's because so much footage is our five day. Himself. Yeah. Had he he, he had to come around flooring him around in older. As a certain point because he became very paranoid about what people are trying to do to him. So a little bit later. Later that as well. So. Makes hosting like in a dilatot and the who say the milky ball. Condones and he did lots of discussing, obviously slept with people, and he got really with the Camara, who we know from film camera, whether the main drivers of the industry there as a clash between that illegal side of Naples and football and being revered by the started anyone game the eighty six game against England Maradona does both of those things. He's a rebel, and he doesn't Hamble, and then he schools the most sublime goal in the history of well football and that's him in cafes one match. And it is this kind of staccato me of Maradonna of his personality. What he means to people that is Jason. You even disappear the director that you think is about one man's power over a coach smart move. I Capelli sets it up as a film about Diego, who is the sweet boy who supported his family came from a poor part of his and the Maradonna character, which is sort of villain, who handles goal in does the rest of it, that seems like an easiest sell. Do you buy that one, which one? Do you. Well to me it's about fame. Am no incident football. I mean, all I knew about him for this made it my goal if you'd like ironically, to sort of shut out football point. To only know that he was a controversial football, and that was about it. So I learned a lot. I was interested because still thing has at wonderful ability to joy into a world and tell you about it. Even if you know very little about it. So that was interesting. But what I took away from it. I was most intrigued by was how that level of adoration fame affected him. So of course he's very links. And as you say, the contrast between the noise mummy's, boy, and the, the man who is revived and treated like a gold and then can't handle it and ends up with the drug problem. And I was intrigued, by the way, it was revealed that he treated women and his girlfriend. I thought that was particularly interesting and getting to grips with the, the kind of control controls in his life in his absolute belligerents, really. And his he was such an ostrich because there was the story that he'd fathered a child, and he just kept denying it as if somehow it wasn't going to come out the truth. At some point. And I think the one of the women involved said, well, he's quite immature and I think that was pushing it quite mildly this really, really emotionally immature, man. And I think that was such an interesting insight into someone. And how actually the level he achieved probably kept immature child in safe, or even worse, funny, one as a non as non-football fan was deplorable fascinating or Moccoli glorious as Jason saying it university and have it for a couple of hours. I think I preferred the film Amy because I'm more incident music, and that world than football. So I don't think there is much for a non football fan because clearly, I don't have as understanding investment in that world someone that's interested. But I did learn a lot Anna's as a very human story. I think why really love about us if that he constantly kind of predicts what question you're gonna ask in your head next. So you have the sensation that he's following your interest. He might be leading your interest, but he's following your. Interest. So soon as a question pops into your head like, oh, I wonder what about what is mother? What about what about? Then they come up and he's really well timed and really well done. I feel I feel ashamed. I feel really glad Anna's doing this with me because she has concentrated on the spoon. We may know the mistreated women very much they do sort of pile up. My love my love for the iconography of this gloated hero, figure villain figure I was hoping it was going to be lots of football in it because he's really good at football. It's. Call. So. But then there's the fact that yeah he was. He was businesswoman, visible womanizer, all very good womanizer. It depends on your. He was what I mean. He was brilliant at charming people. He can have him when he was a great dance dance to night. And the he wasn't good dancer. He was charming and people queued up touch the hem of his garment. If you go to Naples, they have some really of bits of hair hem of gone. There is a Jesus oil savior figure going on there. So I think it's really interesting to the human flaws way you could actually imprint yourself with with your children. I think eight now something like this he could impact on the football pitch. And that's where he read he could imprint his legacy and his personality less so in life. And I think that's really fascinating. Because it is in those human relationships that it flowed. That's where the cocaine came from. You can probably numb that away with cocaine. Yeah. That was really revealing. Nothing which is thinking about the age. We're in now's at a pace me metoo whether it's a camera crew interviewing a bunch of young girls, and they look like they're very. Much underage which play, would you like to sleep with their okay, Donna? What kind of moral come? I mean as this is in tree saw massive capacity. This is done as, as, as saying a little people. It's all done with all the rest of it. There is no kind of the reason exposition onion. I haven't worked out if it's new Diego voice over all data voice. There was a voice, the voice of God. If you like saying, I did that sort of whisper very, terse, and I think it might be a new interview with the new Dego that Asif is because that up at the end he's actually on cameras and you kind of. That's from Mattel show. Right. Two thousand nine right? There is a voice of it. I think it might be new about. Yes. When I first touch cocaine, I felt like gold, forbidden than the and they're all is this voice over that took me a while to whose voice it was, it was Mering, and I think is the go now looking at footage of that. There's no, there's no massive meets Diego. No shaking hands. That's not made. Explicit guy was wondering, I wasn't quite sure. And I thought it might be a pre existing interview. So I mean, a lot of questions still unanswered, for in a an elegant way, in a way that I think is still intriguing point is on a dozen Warsaw to documentaries, like do watching the Sky Sports center, the Premier League years, docs and there are millions and millions of this is such a league above in other maintenance line different place. Spurs, they are just way way above the at little dig to get that one in. But it is a documentary that's about beauty and human. It's not it isn't just the football story that there's something much bigger at stake. I particularly liked just the footage. I love that when TV's had Chubias and the cameras were, there was a kind of warmth about it. Of course, a lot of this. The footage is from the World Cup in Mexico and in Italy. And then, of course in Naples. It self what's the Spike Lee movie about the Halsey stay right? Do the right thing, something do the right thing about it. You feel like the Thomas cutting up its edges, and there's something kind of there's a pressure cooker element just to some of the footage in the close up the grainy quality, the pixelated grainy quality, the, the old TV footage, which is particularly kind of satisfy into an adds to the sense. There's going to be some downfull. They'll has to be a thunderstorm. Looks like news, there's always going to be a story or the end of it. You expect ticket numbers to come up hundred people who were injured in a stampede. All looks like there's just been a story around the whole thing exist without a story around him, whereas hosted, I think, is just in this, I retire almost untouchable. We don't get near you do feel you can get an Eddie ak-. You feel you might be able to be in that scrum and get hold of his belt or something. Yeah. I think does that really well as the e c a lot of scenes where people are crowding around say desperate to touch him, and he's in the center of everything and almost looking a little bit overwhelmed. And I think, yeah, the voice sticky that sense of him, just being just overwhelmed by ration- those personal over both of these men subject of both these documentaries that down for sort of happens later. It's not like they have one flush of success, and then go mad it happens kind of, in the dosage of fashion designer should be able to do their job. Footballer professional Larkham, probably only loss into these days. Maybe. Forty maybe you're goalie of jonsman, but it's a strange thing. They kind of go off the rails, kind of when you feel that creativity or the professional ability, waning says about the documentaries earlier, we the filmmaker has to decide whether they've gone off the rails to make a moral judgment. They have a full day goes still going and still creating headlines and still doing mad stuff. I mean he could've turned up to cannon that would've been another chapter was at the World Cup the before need. He threw himself off the top of the, the STAN, when Argentine a- were playing insulting people, there's more and more and more that somebody s if documentary has to say, stop as soda yet my stories finished now. And then, then, then life can take the rest of it to both of these films have sort of moral compass feels the footage, these people's lives themselves, the footage, such cetera just a story all self does that without having to lean on things. We talk about women and Maradonna in this one that could have had a bright light shined on it in some ways, do we. Acquire bit of moral maneuvering anima, wonder I'm not sure it's moral maneuvering oversee documentary, filmmaker make certain decisions very aware of how the audience are going to judge the character. And I think the Mariana film certainly doesn't shy away from pointing the finger at some of his misdemeanors. I think it Holson was perhaps a little more of a step back. I would say more sympathetic in a way to be. I had a sense that they felt a little sorry for him. Whereas 'Maradona one, I think is Wilson. Oh, yeah. If you know he he's the very emotional stories, all three of these trilogies, and he was remains very dispassionate. I think even when you're telling the story like Amy, which is crushing and tragic, and you want to stop the action on the screen, you want to, please, everyone. He remains dispassionate as a film. And I think that's what was his. He's revolutionized the dog drawn. And I think he has been he's being quite as historically cold about a disease, possibly can be even when telling these hugely emotive subjects and putting a moat. He makes emotional choices. He gets Pinto to the music, and they're brilliant. And this Maradonna film. I have to say it has the best opening sequence of documenting I've ever seen this car footage of driving through Naples with this kind of eerie, John carpenter's. It's actually taught Turgeon. It's such a new music, but it's got an eighties electric, and you feel like you're in a in a drugs movie from the eighties. No. Right. In there, ready to kind of snake? Through these labyrinth in crumbling passageways. We do that of others mind or his physique, yours body is all the town where he lives. So just have to get that in yet as cranks up the excitement. Cranks up the tension with music and filmmakers tricks, but he himself remains was got like in his impartiality and let you side the morals, but he's still making decision this leading you innocent are actually has because that's his job. He doesn't very well and just finding them. What is it to make a film about living person in one about a dead one because the content and tone of the Maradonna documentaries? But the fact he's alive is not uncritically. It doesn't seem to make much difference at Jason obviously in terms of organization, but also in terms of the vibe in the room, he could have turned up to the premiering can was the different Soutin. Set ending as we. Along with us. And with this one here he may decision to end it at a certain point. But you don't you have to make that decision filmmaker rather than the world's decision for you. But also, I think I mean, not necessarily intake Mirjana, but I have seen documentaries of living people, which oversee wages Vantic, and it's not the case here, too polite, and too worried about legal issues. New bachelor Westwood One recently, which actually Westwood. They like she decides. So when you do make one about living, they cannot Sebaq. It's one of the problems we've got with an especially west with he expected back. You know, I can't remember the name who made the documentary talking. Yeah. Exactly. And I mean she was several vivid films. She was well, I would be disappointed Vivian did like my feels kind of the point you can get. Exactly prop stir anyone who does take on the living that brings us to the end of today's show, Diego Maradona is that in cinemas on June fourteenth Holson is out on the seventh. Thank you very much. I guess today, Anna Smith and Jason this episode of the Manco coach show, was produced by Holly fishes studio produced by Augustine match. Laurie edited by Alex put Felix and I've been around joins again at the same time next week of time being, thanks for tuning in.