March 5, 2019: Hour 2


This message comes from here. And now sponsor indeed if you're hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions then zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started at indeed dot com slash NPR podcast. Search teams continue to look for survivors in eastern Alabama. After those powerful tornadoes killed at least twenty three people in a news conference today. Lee county coroner Bill Harris said the victims ranged from six to ninety three years old just keep those families in your prayers. There's one family was connected in her over seven people this man laws one seven in one family. Well, our next guest says this tragedy highlights a unique vulnerability in the south Victor genie is a tornado researcher Ed northern Illinois university, and Victor you were watching radar tracking of these tornadoes. What were you thinking as you watched? Well, honestly. Early your stomach. It's heavy, and you know, as a researcher what's happening at the surface. Well, and as you point out storm prediction center's head out looks for two five days in advance tornado watches were issued people like you around the country were seeing this. What's the disconnect? Why did so many people die in your opinion? I think it comes to the unique question of exposure. And vulnerability we have a big challenge in the southeastern United States as we have a lot of trees in the way, it makes seeing tornadoes very hard. We have another big problem though. And that's we have a lot of mobile homes, and you're if you're in a mobile home when a tornado strikes, I you're very likely to be injured or or perhaps even killed my colleague here at northern Illinois, walk rashly and another colleague Steven Schrader at Villanova university of looked a lot at mobile homes, and what we generally see is over half of all tornado fatalities occur in mobile homes. And yet they only account for roughly. Seven percent or so of the United States housing stock. So we have this disparity where a lot of folks are getting injured or killed in mobile homes. And so we ought to start thinking of potential whether it's legislation or some mandates to require these mobile home parks to have safe shelters nearby. So these people have access to safety, but that only really I think addresses one issue of the problem. The second issue is were making really good forecasts. But are people actually getting the warning? And if they do get the warning are they actually willing and able to take action, and that's another thing that, you know, if you think forecasting, the weather is hard forecasting human behavior is sometimes even harder. Well, let's talk about that. Because Gershman who's with the university corporation for atmospheric research, very bluntly said, maybe we need more funding for social science to actually figure out the psychology of people because the messages are going out and some people complain I don't want that. Interrupting my television show, I couldn't agree more. We absolutely need more research on how people respond to our watches our warnings. And even our severe weather outlooks. Again, the science is getting very very good at predicting at least general locations of where severe weather is likely. But we still have this disconnect as we saw a couple of days ago people's lives in those regions, especially in Lee county, Alabama will never be the same. Well, we certainly not blaming the victims are trying to figure out a way to get that message across. So there's that, but we've also been hearing today the concern that and it's not even tornado season yet some have mentioned that April will that's coming up. Maybe even worse. What do you say to that? I am always very careful to use the two terms tornado alley in tornado season. Because I think when you use those terms you lead people to believe that severe weather is only going to happen or is only likely to happen in a certain area of the country or to certain time of the year. And as a researcher, I know that that's not. True tornadoes happened in all fifty states, and they can happen any time of the year. And while the southeastern United States doesn't have a focused tornado season. They have a very broad risk over the entire year. And that means you can never really let your guard down for these events. And if you do you become complacent to the hazard, and unfortunately, if you become complacent, you may become of the of the sort of mindset that you know, these are not of that are going to happen to me, and I shouldn't worry about it. When they issue a watcher a warning. And unfortunately, it just takes one tornado to really, you know, produce what we saw couple days ago. Victor, we are hearing terrible stories out of Alabama apparent holding six year old son who was just ripped from his arms because of the strength of the wind. Another man they were hiding in the basement and the dog got very quiet. So he went up to see opened the door, and almost was vacuumed out with the force of these winds, if until mobile homes in particular, get more shelters, what would you what should a person? Into if they find themselves suddenly there, they are and the tornadoes coming hit the floor get under something. I mean, what can you do? Well, you can't wait until the houses. Collapsing on you to try to think about what to do, you know? But if you're an attorney to warning in you do think that your, you know, your your property or your life is in jeopardy, you really need to get indoors get to the lowest floor in put as many walls between you and the tornado was possible. You know, I'm telling you even people now to in your emergency kit. Put a bike helmet in there. Because a lot of the injuries that we see our blunt force trauma to the head. And you know, I think a bike helmet could actually go a long way in your emergency disaster kit when you're thinking about severe storms. Victor Jen Seaney tornado researcher at northern Illinois university in the sad. Terrible aftermath of the tornado in Lee county, Victor, thank you. Thank you, Robin will the actor Luke Perry is being remembered today by many other Hollywood stars who worked with him over the years. He was most famous for his role on Beverly Hills nine oh, two one. Oh, Perry died yesterday after suffering a massive stroke a few days earlier, the CDC identifies stroke is the fifth leading cause of death for Americans with one hundred forty thousand dying from strokes each year. And joining us now is Dr Mona bay who who is assistant professor of neurology. At Johns Hopkins School of medicine, Dr welcome and let's start with the basics. What is a stroke, and what causes it? So a stroke is caused by any disruption of blood flow to the brain the brain is the only organ in the body that is reliant on a constant flow of oxygen and nutrients to keep the sales of the brain functioning. So stroke can really happen in two different ways. One is when the blood vessel gets blocked, therefore, reducing blood flow to the brain by an inclusion or blockage of the blood vessel. The other way stroke happens is the bleeding kind of stroke, a hemorrhagic stroke when the blood vessel itself breaks, open and blood leaks out in during the brain tissue around it. And the fact that Luke Perry was just fifty two years old is that unusual for somebody to have a stroke of fatal stroke at such a young age. Yeah, you know, stroke definitely increases with each decade of life above age fifty five, but it's not uncommon for a young patients to have stroke. So probably on the order of ten to fifteen percent of stroke patients are really under the age of fifty five. And are certain people more at risk than others. There are definitely risk factors that put people at risk for a stroke. Some of those risk factors include high blood pressure smoking. Atrial fibrillation condition where the heartbeats irregularly and increases the risk for sending a blood clot from the heart to the brain high cholesterol, poor diet and lack of exercise some of those will put you at much higher risk for stroke. There are genetic and family causes, but those are much fewer and far between and how likely are you to die from a stroke, or if you do survive one what is lifelike afterwards. You know, we've really made great gains in how in the United States. We've helped patients to survive through the stroke stroke used to be the number two leading cause of death in the United States and now is down to the fifth leading cause of death. That said probably between ten and fifteen percent of stroke patients will die from the stroke. That really depends on the type of stroke that the patient is having a. And the size of the area of brain tissue as affected by the stroke. So the larger the area of stroke, the larger the area of damage of the brain the more chance for death equally. Some of the hemorrhagic stroke types, have an increased likelihood of death, depending on the cause of the hemorrhagic stroke, and then what is life like afterwards for people who've survived a stroke once you've survived the first few days after a stroke, all efforts really turned to helping you recover from that stroke. So, unfortunately, although we've improved survival from stroke. We haven't really moved the needle on the level of disability that stroke leaves people with once they've experienced it. So the patients who have strokes can have physical abnormalities, meaning some patients can't walk. Some cannot move their arms to take care of themselves, including activities of daily living, some strokes steal people's ability to talk or communicate in that can mean effect the ability for the words to come out properly or. Even the ability to understand the spoken word to them. Some strokes steal the person's ability to see completely. So some stroke patients will have a loss of vision in one part of their vision different types of strokes may cause trouble with balance. And so while people do recover from stroke and can get back to meaningful life. There are a lot of stroke related disabilities that persist when you can survive the first few days of stroke water, the warning signs for people. I know that there's an acronym called fast that that people should follow when they're trying to identify. If a stroke is occurring, and what to do about it. Yeah. It's really critical that people know the signs and symptoms of stroke. Now, the fast acronym is really great because it encourages people to remember that this painless process you should respond quickly and fast stands for face weakness. So if you see somebody who's face drooping on one side that could be the sign of a stroke, a stands for, arm weakness. So if somebody who was previously moving their arms, well, suddenly has weakness in one arm that. Could be a sign of the stroke S, stands for speech. So if you noticed that someone is having trouble talking or understanding, the spoken word, all of the sudden and t- means time time is of the essence when you have an schemic stroke or the stroke that is caused by a blockage of a blood vessel. We have a very narrow time window for which treatments can be rendered. So calling nine one one and getting to the hospital as quickly as possible as essential. That is Dr Mona bay who who's an assistant professor of neurology. At Johns Hopkins School of medicine talking with us about strokes after Luke Perry died yesterday following a massive stroke just a few days earlier. Doctor. Thank you. Thank you. In two thousand three fine art photographer. Kevin, boo. Bruschi was on assignment in a peaceful Syria to take pictures of places like the ancient Sook in Aleppo, a center of commerce for some two thousand years and people like the small boy hugging the long, hard sheep. He was tending. This was eight years away from the uprising than civil war than proxy war and battle against ISIS. That would kill four hundred thousand people forced twelve million more to flee and reduce much of Syria to rubble in two thousand fourteen we spoke with Syrian scholar Amer I'll awesome about the archaeological losses. I've just seen photographs from a site close to Raka lodge trenches dug up with these bucket diggers, you know, and the damage is phenomenal and it's gone forever. It can never be returned or retrieved. Well, now Azam has written the forward to a book of Kevin boob. Riske's photographs from two thousand three legacy in stone Syria before war, we start our conversation. With Kevin boob risky, who's at W, AMC and Albany, New York. Kevin welcome. Thank you very much described. The Syria, you've visited my writer friend, Lou Werner, and I we arrived at night, and Damascus, and it was a Tober of two thousand three the American war in Iraq was six months old and our intention was to visit Syria because of the proximity of the war and to tell a story of some sort of the deep history and the living culture of Syria. And so we ended up on our way to Aleppo to do photographic portraits. And then the stories of the people who live and work in the souk selling olive oil soap wedding dresses spices. It was an incredible endless labyrinth of alleyways vaulted archways. We'll have pictures it here now dot org. But does it still exist as the war started in two thousand eleven there were street battles throughout Aleppo and the Suk became know a hot point of the conflict. Fires and then bomb barred -ment as well as you page through the book, turn these beautiful columns. These arches how did those stones hold up? Are they gone everything has been damaged to some extent. Some things have been entirely destroyed. There are eminent that are still there. But it's very hard to know. Exactly. What's left? Isis had occupied the ancient city of palmyra for two years. They use the beautiful old Roman theatre as a backdrop for mass executions, they blew up and totally destroyed the magnificent monumental arch the incredible immense. Temple of Bel was also thoroughly destroyed. This was a a direct assault on the cultural history of place and also the multi-ethnic cultural histories because there were the ancient Romans and the early Christians and the Byzantine world followed by the early Islamic world and all of that was targeted by ISIS and others. What were you? Thinking when years later, I mean, you were there in two thousand three and one years later, you're watching the news, and you're hearing that ISIS is as you said impel Myra Palmira is a town known historically for its role and the silk route servicing caravans, what was it like for you, very disturbing? It's very hard to see the unravel -ment of places that have been somewhat stable for such a long time. I mean in two thousand three Lou learner, and I went to serious. We didn't have the idea of a big story. We just wanted to be in touch with people that were there to show that people were having regular lives. And then I realized I'm in Syria. Now, I've got to take my time and get out to what are called the dead cities in two thousand three you could go through that area and just come upon these glorious abandoned roofless limestone structures to three stories tall with a beautiful carved rock, so as a photographer just taken with that. That the interplay of light and shape and stone. We're looking at some of them, and again, we'll have him at here now dot org, but there's San Simione which is part of the dead cities. There's a church there. Bill to glorify this relatively new faith of Christianity in the your four fifty nine beautiful pictures of these they look like very crude crosses do. You wanna go back? Of course. I want to go back. But I also know the dangers all the I is all the unexploded explosive devices, not also all the political difficulties of being an American going into a place like Syria. So at some point. Yes, I would love to go back. Well, meanwhile, I'm looking at one of the pictures. This is a souk in Aleppo, and you see a huge stone wall on the left and along rows and rows and rows on little plastic hangers of babies outfits. Little onesies some gentlemen with leather jackets who look like they could be walking down a fancy street and Italy a woman covered head to toe. You've done all of this in black and white, and they they. I do feel like ghosts. These photographs go from two thousand three, but my wife, and I were in Syria in two thousand nine and going into the mosque of Damascus in two thousand nine was like being in the pizza. San Marco in Venice. It was just a collection of people from all over the world. There was no sense of division or discrimination. And so that's also an image. I like to keep with me. I don't think of my images is ghost. I think of them as a testament to the resilience of culture. And so I think we have to believe that there's going to be a future for Syria for their people for the cultural legacy as well. I'm not seeing images as ghosts. But as solid factual evidence of what Syria can rebuild itself toward that's photographer. Kevin Uber risky. His new book pictures taken in Syria in two thousand three legacy in stone Syria before war, Kevin. Thank you. Thank you so much, Robin. Well, now, let's bring in honor. I'll awesome again, he's professor of Middle East history and anthr- apology at shawnee state university in Ohio, as we mentioned we spoke with him in two thousand fourteen about the archaeological losses in his country, Syria. And now he's written the introduction to Kevin Buber skis book, and professor your thoughts. When you first saw these prewar pictures, do they look like ghosts too. You know, I mean for me it was almost like jumping on on these phones in Omaha. Thank god. Somebody's recorded this because this is all that we have left the original monuments themselves, whether it's the old souks of Aleppo or the temple Belen palmyra, and and other such monuments when now destroyed or just damaged beyond repair. So having these fabulous beautiful photographs really then for me became almost like a beacon of hope that future generations will still be able to see. See what I had seen with my own eyes, at least and still marvel at their beauty. I'm surprised that you are as hopeful as you are seeing the photographs because you said to us that without this tangible proof of the past which is now mostly rubble. There is no future Syria. You have to have it for a Syria to rise from these ashes, a cultural heritage derived from a common shared history is critical to establish a Syrian identity that takes account of ethnic or sectarian or tribal differences. Yes, indeed. But series is very fortunate in that it is an extremely rich region in terms of the amount of cultural heritage that we have so even as we have lost such amazing beautiful sites and monuments. There's still a huge amount left. My concern is that our ability to then make sure that future generations can see feel and experience the same things that we. We have in if not the same way in just as equally meaningful manner. You are also when we spoke with you fighting for UN resolution to ban the trading of some of these items. You also spoke volunteers who are protecting for instance, mosaics on the floors by sandbagging would become even more of a problem for is not just the deluding is happening in the this. But look at the way in which social media platforms like Facebook like watts out. These are one of the primary ways in which looters, and you know, would be terrorist organizations. And and would be buyers are interacting on the same page is yesterday. I was just looking at a page one page out of fifty sixty pages. At least that I've been able to identify where they're over eighty thousand members of this page and the page specifically is set up to invite people to basically show their goods, and if a sale occurs, you promise to pay a dividend or or something to the organizers of. The page, but have you been able to get any kind of resolution banning that there are several, you know, we've had bills posses in the, you know, the house we've had there are international laws that that try to restrict the trade in a lot of our work is campaigning to raise awareness about the danger of buying or dealing or trading in looted antiquities, just at the very least warning the general public that. When you buy an antique witty, just make sure they'll just that. It's a funding or Fe. But that also it's not looted recently that some terrorist is not just made a lot of money. Thanks to the fact that you've just bought this professor back to the photographs can't imagine. I'm trying to think what it'd be like to have mount Rushmore completely toppled and destroyed. What's it like to for you to linger? Oh these photograph. You know foot across can be very beautiful. But there is something about being there. If you think of the temple bell, for example, one of the features of the temple of Bally's that you go early in the morning, just as the sun is beginning to rise in the template self is quite dark, but as the sun rises from the east it climbs, slowly, and at one moment, it will hit those windows and room will explode with light blinding light that sensation of light that feeling you can never recreate that in an image. And what really really breaks my heart is that, you know, future generations of young Syrians, including my own daughters will never be able to experience this. They will look at the pictures. They'll read about it. Sure. But they will never be able to experience that feeling that sensation of that light exploding just as the sun hits those windows. That's amore. I'll Azam professor of Middle East history and anthropoid at shawnee state university in Ohio, professor, thank you so much. Thank you. And again to see the beautiful pictures from Kevin's book Syria before go to here now doubt Bork. This message comes from here. And now sponsor indeed when it comes to hiring. You don't have time to waste you need help getting to your shortlist of qualified candidates fast with indeed post a job in minutes. Set up screener questions then zero in on qualified candidates. And when you need to hire fast, accelerate your results with sponsored jobs. New users can try for free when you sign up at indeed dot com slash NPR, podcast, terms, conditions, and quality standards apply as the twenty twenty presidential campaign gets underway. Major donors are deciding where to put their money that includes big tech companies like Google, apple and Facebook, which all spent millions during the two thousand sixteen campaign, but after so many scandals over privacy and election meddling, silicon valley's reputation is not what it was and donations could be a liability for more. Let's go to our weekly guide to the world of tech. Recode? Teddy's life. Her is senior editor Recode. Hi teddy. Hey, five minute. So it's early yet. But how has Silicon Valley already been weighing in? Do. They have a preferred candidate. You know, I spent the last couple of weeks talking with ton of big democratic donors democratic fundraisers. And you know, I think that in some ways this is kind of the opposite of the two thousand sixteen campaign for Republicans where you saw a lot of energy early behind Jeb Bush here in twenty twenty we have a similarly sized democratic fields. But there's no early money moving very quickly. You get the sense from talking to some democratic donors democratic campaigns that Silicon Valley money isn't really what used to be right? I mean, take someone like Sheryl Sandberg. Big democratic donor in the past. Obviously extremely influential household name what a democratic candidate want Sheryl Sandberg, another F E filings anymore because of all the problems she had at phaser. Okay. Even though she is the lean in author. She wasn't very transparent. About some of the company's activities. Right. And I think you know, that speaks to the broader issue here of like Silicon Valley donors in Silicon Valley marquee names will raise questions about are you too close with Silicon Valley. And I think a great example of that is Cory Booker, the New Jersey Senator and kind of, you know, mid level democratic candidate right now long close with lots of important people in Silicon Valley. He's an app to answer questions throughout this campaign about EC two close to tech. Right. And he might be asked those questions by other democratic candidates in the debate. One activist. You spoke with called the tech industry. Our generations big tobacco not just for these scandals. But you know, there are people questioning whether a lot of the technology that were living with is good for our health. So there's a divide there. Right. Yeah. I mean, this was an activist by Cory Booker. He felt that he was a Manchurian candidate for Silicon Valley and Booker might be at one end of the spectrum. You know, you have other candidates. Like Amy klobuchar. The Minnesota Senator who's actually been pretty tough on big tech would even she's coming here to San Francisco and a couple of weeks for fundraiser. According to an invitation that we've seen so even if you are, you know, very strident and in your opposition to tack in a lot of criticisms of it, a reality of democratic politics is that this is where the money is. So you gotta show up. Well, and just briefly because there's just one candidate right now on the Republican side. But last week the conservative political action conference CPAC had Senator Josh Holly, the Missouri Republican hosting a panel blasting Facebook and Google and Twitter for what he called a left wing social agenda last year at the same event, you had Facebook and Google with product demos and open bar events to whoop conservatives, so Silicon Valley seems to be having a, you know, a break-up with the right, right? And the left, right. Yeah. That's the challenge. That's the challenge for the value. Right now is there's you know, they used to have some comfort with Republicans because they're free. Arket big companies that have produced time innovation east of comfort kind of with the left culturally, right because of their progressivism on social issues. And now, you get the sense the valley has really no political allies. Teddy Shlaefer senior editor for finance and influence at Recode teddy. Thank you for. Thanks. Did you use shampoo this morning? If you did it probably lives in a plastic container that you'll discard when it's done what about your ice cream. That's probably in a container that you'll eventually throw out which brings us to a new idea to get products like that into containers that you'll put out on the porch after you. So they can be refilled the company that wants to do this is called loop. And it's already got buy in from Nestle Unilever and Procter and gamble loop. Is the brainchild of Tom Zaki? The CEO of the recycling firm Tara cycle. He joins us as part of our series of conversations with leaders called view from the top, Tom. Welcome back to here. Now. Thanks for having me and tell us first about how this would work. Exactly. Well, the idea of loop is to solve waste at the root cause which we know we think release idea of using something once or disposability, and so the general idea would loop is that instead of the consumer owning the packages at the end when the remedy it's always owned by the manufa. Factual. And so instead of it going to waste or recycling. We simply pick it back up from the consumer clean it and around. It goes again sort of like the way milk used to be delivered a back in the nineteen fifties. And in some places still is, but are we talking about in addition to ice cream and shampoo? What else? Well, the idea is to bring this re-use model to absolutely everything from your laundry detergent to your mouthwash from your orange juice to your granola. I mean, truly everything in partnership with the world's biggest manufacturers to really try to shift consumption from a disposable system to a circular one who comes in picks it up and drops it off. However, you normally buy your products today whether on ecommerce or whether in store, it would happen the same. So if you buy online, you can access loop say from loop store dot com or other places it's delivered to you say by UPS, and then it's picked up by those same delivery vehicles in store version. You bite at the store and then take it back to the store. Now, as you know, when you buy something at the supermarket right now almost everything has a seal on it. So that you know, it hasn't been opened before would you be able to do that with container that's being reused over and over again. This is a really good question. You know, a lot of these things that have been really thought about in design really from a disposable perspective have to be reengineer when you think about it from a durable point of view. So when you get your delivery case instead of there being taped, there's a zipper. So we need to put a little latch on the zipper to make sure, you know, no, one in the transportation is tempered with what's inside then for the products themselves in beverages. Some caps will give a little click sound when they opened. So you know, that no one's tempered with it. But there's a lot of innovation. We have to do here to make sure that that type of work can go to any type of container. Now. How did you get Nestle and Unilever to go along with this idea because? They're they're part of the beta testing here. That's right. And it's you know, what I'm really thrilled. With is you know, beyond Nestle Unilever, PNG Coca Cola, Pepsi Mondays. I mean, the list just goes on to most of the world's biggest producers, then what got these major companies excited is that loop doesn't just solve for the idea of waste. But it also enables them to bring out innovation that they've always dreamed about. But simply couldn't in packaging that is owned by the consumer. So let's take for example, the Nestle Haagen Dazs ice cream container. So today ice-cream comes to us, basically encoded papers the same thing as a coffee Cup, and it's generally unfunctional and also not recyclable in most recycling systems, the new Haagen Dazs container is double wall stainless steel. So it's an elevations of design. It's like the most beautiful ice cream package out there. But it also because of its double while nature keeps your ice cream frozen from multiple hours on the go. So if you take it. Out of the freezer. It'll look beautiful on the kitchen table, and you can have it out there for the whole dinner, and it won't melt now that may seem like a trite innovation but in the world of ice cream. That's quite game changing. Now, I imagine another upside for the companies that are involved in this is that it kind of locks consumers into a specific brand. Because if you're going to be using this container over and over again in its Haagen Dazs ice cream, then you will send it away and come back with more Haagen-Dazs. You're not going to switch over to Ben and Jerry's. In the meantime, while you're absolutely right. One of the neat. Things about reuse models is we have a sense of what comes back and so in the online systems you can turn on a function that allows your empty product. Let's say you're empty Tropicana to trigger an order of a new one, and that is incredibly convenient for consumers. So they don't have to worry about ever buying their orange juice again, nor do they have to worry about having too much which is one of the challenges with traditional subscription models that it's like a box every month. And then if you've turned on your orange juice and locked in the Tropicana, the chances of you staying with that brand, or of course, elevated, and that's good business from the companies who adopted what is the biggest challenge for you in all of this though. I mean, we've talked about a lot of the different things that make it difficult to change consumer behavior to change something that people have been doing forever and make them do something different. But what's the biggest one for you? What's the biggest hurdle? You know with loop. It's a re-imagined nation of the entire way products are made. So I think there's like an inertia challenge where companies when they develop these packages have to invest quite a lot of resource to develop them, and then build the entire operational capability to be able to fill them have them. Go around those are quite big challenges to surmount. And then when it comes to the consumer the biggest thing, we've learned is that we and I say this even as myself, really as consumers, we prefer things that are cheap and convenient. And so for us to scale what we've realized is the easier we make loop and the more it feels like disposability the more it will succeed. And so we're really trying to make it feel like, hey, you can just throw out your container when you're done don't even have to clean. It was just throwing it into a reu- spin at the end and not a garbage bin the part. I'm optimistic about is the suppose ability has only been around for seventy years. So I think there's a really good opportunity to. To look into our past look for the wisdom in the past. But then to think about how to modernize it and make it something that really is first century that is Tom Zaki, and we will link you to more about loop at here now dot org. Tom, thank you know. It was my pleasure at great the Chattan look for to chatting against some time. And Luke plans to start testing its products in Paris, London and parts of the northeastern United States in may, you can see what these containers. Look like adhere now dot org. Well, as people like TOMS Aki, try to bring us into the future native Alaskans are sticking with traditions that have been around for generations on the far northern coast of Alaska. Preparations for spring wailing are in high gear that includes making a traditional thread called Eva, Lou from caribou tendons, which are used to sew together the seal skin boats, which are basically canoes that can slide on the ice. Ravenna Canaan of Alaska's energy takes us to an evil workshop. Diana Martin is the first to arrive at the new Piot heritage center for Neva Lou workshop that will be going on most of the day. I have my sinews on the floor because then needs to stay cool. So you've got a plastic bag in what is that? It's a caribou tendons. They need to be split it prepared to make strands the work actually started months ago collecting tendons from family members who brought home care Buddha attendants had to be dried outside in the cold for several weeks. Now, they almost look like stocks of a plant beige and kind of stringy they crunch when you split them apart. After their split, the strands will be braided into thread this whole process. Takes a ton of time and energy one skin boat can require over fifty tendons and some years. There are a lot of votes to make thread four at one time. There were seventeen that were sewn in one spring five of Martin's twelve siblings are whaling captains. So for the past two decades, she's had her hands full almost every year making sinew thread for their skin boats. She also lends a hand to other captains when they ask her. She's one of the teachers at today's workshop. Hi, nancy. The other is Nancy Levin. An elder and a whaling captains wife workshops, like this one have been held for the past few years to teach others how to make the threat we learn how to split the sinew we're going to clean it for the lady who would like to learn let it says the splitting stages, especially difficult because the tendons are tough. Sometimes it takes two people to pull them apart. It visibly muscle. It's like a you go to the gym, except your arms work lot and your feet work. If you can't pull it with your hand, you put it on there. And let it steps on one part of the tendon and uses her arms to work on splitting apart of it away. She actually enjoys the work in part because it's so all consuming everything just falls into place. The problems the stress the thought to have most of them just disappear and all the effort pays off when whaling crews get home safely with a new season of whale to feed the community for here. Now. I'm Ravina chaotic in you'd Kavak. Oregon's new I in the country's statewide rent control. Law was signed last week and is now in effect. It caps rent increases to around seven percent plus inflation with buildings below a certain size exempt as his new construction Oregon's governor Kate Brown said the law will give immediate relief to Oregon's struggling to keep up with rising rents will maybe some immediate relief. But what happens long-term, not everyone agrees Rebecca diamond is associate professor at the Stanford graduate school of business. She researches rent control and joins us now, professor diamond, Rebecca, welcome. Thanks so much for having me. And I have a guess that what you're going to tell us about this research this irrefutable quenching of numbers isn't going to be popular with a lot of people who believe that. Of course, rent control is good because we see how rents are just skyrocketing in cities, and this will enable more people to live in places they can afford. I mean that is thinking, right. So I think the research does support in the short term, right one ranked control laws. Come in those initial renters. They are helped, you know, the level of rent increases, limited it enables people's to stay in their home. But in the long run is when you start to really worry about rent control and think about how landlords might try to recoup. Some of these rental losses that rent control takes away from them, and that can really undermine rent control in the long run. Well, as you say it in the long run rent control. Decreases affordability fuels gentrification creates negative externalities on the surrounding neighborhoods so start with you were talking about, you know, property owners who have long said when they protest rent control that if I can't raise my rant. I can't afford to take care of property. I'm going to turn around and sell it and take it off the market. Do you find that? That's what happens. So when we studied this in the context of San Francisco, that's exactly what we saw landlords are going to find uses of their. Property that are more profitable in rentals. And that's gonna lead to less rental supply. Yeah, we'll talk about some of the other affects because, you know, rent control as we said again, it's about affordability people. It's been called insurance for people. They can invest in a community because they know that their rent isn't going to skyrocket. So they become a big part of the community send their children to school participate. And that's what advocates have rent control of always pointed to you're right. It's insurance for those people who get access to rent control right away. But as the landlord start taking their properties off the rental market. There's going to be even less supply of rental housing, that's affordable. And then the shortage of rental housing. We'll just get worse. And when there's a shortage that drives up market, rents you end up actually getting higher rental rates when you initially move into an apartment because there's just less housing to go around the other element of rent control that people may know about anecdotally. Yes, we may know people who could not afford to be in. You know, certain neighborhoods if they didn't have a cap on the rent, but people abuse it. So I think a great thing to consider with rent control is to note that it's for everyone. It's not targeted at the people who have you know, really tight affordability constraints. If you're a high income earner, you still get rent control. So you could imagine their ways to improve policy that could still make affordable housing available to a more financially needy population without expanding to everyone will as you say rent control leads to mismatches between tenants and rental unit. Somebody may secure rent controlled unit men, then never leave it. That's exactly right. You face this tradeoff, if you've been in an apartment for a long time, maybe you have a child now or you have a spouse, and you need an extra bedroom, but you may not move and get that correct type of housing because you don't want to give up your rent control. So that ends up putting people in the wrong types of housing in the long run. Yeah. Then what is the solution to? These serious housing crunches in places like Oregon, they have people living in tents and cars, what is a solution if not capping the rent so that they can live there. So I see that there's a short run solution on a long run solution and the long run solution is a fundamental need of more supply of rental housing so easing land. Use restrictions that make it easier for developers to supply that affordable housing and not make it so expensive to comply with all of the local regulations to build that housing is the real long run solution in the short run, you could imagine policies like rent control. Maybe the band aid that you need, but the doesn't necessarily mean you have to force that subsidy payment right directly, idle landlord in other words, allow landlords to raise the rents as, you know, hopefully, not gouging. But in ways that they feel make it worth it for them to have the rental units and not take them off the market, but provide deserve. Tenants with some sort of subsidy to to be able to pay those rents exactly because when you do these types of subsidies through a more traditional government channel, then you can do things like condition them on being low income or condition them on other characteristics of the household, which we do for many other programs and actually Ty the subsidy to people who need it the most. And meanwhile, you mentioned land use loosening restrictions on land use. And that's a huge issue in Oregon where you know, keeping land open is a part of the character of the state. And so, you know, building more affordable housing is a big challenge there Rebecca diamond associate professor at the Stanford graduate school of business a researcher of rent control. I'm sure people are gonna have a lot of Indians about your findings, professor diamond. But thank you. Thanks so much for having me. Get again, Oregon becomes the first in the country with a statewide rent control law, your thoughts. Welcome here now dot org. Here now is a production at NPR and WVU are. I'm Robin young. I'm Jeremy Hobson. This is here now.

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