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How An "Angel" Helped Matt Nagy


Stories the home to some of the best features investigations character. Portraits from across the Spion, I Mike Philbrick your host of the double truck stories podcast. Remember subscriber double stories podcast on the ESPN app. Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. Everyone has a dream. But at some point for almost all of us reality steps in and it's time to walk away from that bears. Coach bat Nagy was on. That path is his NFL dream slipped away transition from the defunct arena league to southern custom home seem to be working out better than anyone thought. Thanks, someone seeing potential Nagy. But that dream was still there still lingering in when a few longshot opportunities came calling Nagy didn't just jump, but was pushed by the Manitoba chance on him when his NFL dreams are all gone. Stick around after the story. Fi conversation with ESPN's Wayne Dreeze as we talk about how every dream needs a cheerleader. Now, we present from selling homes to the NFL how an angel helped Matt Nagy by Wayne Reyes. Is he strolled into the tiny dimly lit all Rick restaurant ten years ago? Matt Nagy had one goal to put football in his past. But little did. He know his three hour dinner meeting would circuitously lead to the exact opposite and the stranger. He was about to meet he would one day referred to as his angel, and it would all happen against the longest of odds that word angel is more than a little humbling says Larry wisdom, the man at the other end of the table that night in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. It's embarrassing. I had no intention of hiring him ten percent chance maybe and that's being generous. There's no rewriting history here. Instead, there's the unlikely tale of a man who was unemployed out of football and desperately seeking a job in new home sales becoming the driving force behind the resurrection of one of the NFL's most storied franchises in two seasons with the Chicago Bears. Former coach Marc Trestman won thirteen games in three years. John fox. One fourteen games. Matt Nagy has won twelve games and in NFC north championship in his first year. And the season is over on Sunday. Nagy's bears will host the defending Super Bowl champion. Philadelphia. Eagles in the opening round of the NFL playoffs. Ten years ago. Nagy tried to quit football he failed. Now, he's the favourite to win the NFL's coach of the year award and has a football crease city dreaming of the most improbable of turnarounds from football laughing stock to Super Bowl champions. This is a great story. What's going on? Worst to first is hard. It's hard to do says ESPN NFL analyst Louis Riddick who worked with Nagy and Philadelphia and his pick the bears to go to the Super Bowl. This is a special special season for this football team. I knew that would be good with the potential to be great. But I didn't know he'd be this good this quickly dinner with Nagy. Hell no fifty one weeks ago on a sunny, but biting cold winter afternoon. Nagy step to the podium at Halas hall and officially took the reins as the sixteenth head coach of the bears. He spent the first five minutes of his introductory news conference rattling off the names of family, friends, coaches and teammates who helped him reach the pinnacle of football coaching. There was of course, his wife Stacy in their four boys his high school and college coaches quarterback Alex Smith with whom he worked closely in Kansas City and name few had ever heard of Larry wisdom Nagy said that day agai nobody in here knows he persuaded me to live that dream. I'm living the dream and Larry that dream came true somewhere back on the east coast. Wisdom was chuckling. If he would have had his way he in Nagy never would have even met back in the fall of two thousand eight as wisdom cranked benchpress ads at four thirty in the morning his personal trainer constantly badgered him about meeting his friend Matt Nagy about a potential job Nagy grew up dreaming of playing quarterback in the NFL. But after successful high school career at man. Heim central and eastern, Pennsylvania. He didn't receive a division one a scholarship offer. He ended up at Delaware where he broke more than twenty passing records. But after graduating in two thousand he went undrafted his NFL dream officially died after a free agent tryout with the Green Bay Packers on September eleventh two thousand one he joined the arena league where he threw for more than eighteen thousand yards and three hundred seventy four touchdowns in six seasons. But after the two thousand eight season the recession caused the league to fold at thirty years old with a wife two kids to more on the way in a mortgage Nagy needed more than just a job. He needed a new career. That was such a challenging time for me financially emotionally Nagy says, but wisdom, the president of new home construction company was fighting to save the employees already had not add new ones. This was a homebuilding operation not a real estate firm. Wisdom says people's lives were at stake builders going. Bankrupt companies are failing and I'm going to meet someone with no experience about a job. It didn't make sense. But wisdom's trainer Steve Saunders. Now the strength and conditioning coordinator for the Baltimore Ravens. Wouldn't quid Saunders? Worked with Nagy when the quarterback tours ACO in two thousand three he knew the family, the work ethic. The drive so every time wisdom came into train Saunders. Brought up Nagy eventually the executive caved. If for no other reason than to stop the pestering. I said all right. I'll talk with them. Wisdom says haven't give me a call. And Steve goes grape, you'll have dinner with him. I said hell, no Nagy's pitch. Ten minutes into that dinner. Wisdom realized this was far more than a favor for a friend wisdom found Nagy authentic personable smart confident he loved his communication skills. And he was drawn to his sense of humility and coach ability all the things people love about him. And Chicago came across that night. Wisdom said after three. Hours of conversation. Wisdom got to the point. I said to your has to me for a role in which you have absolutely no experience. Wisdom says a role that hundreds of other people would want how can you possibly make the case that it would make sense for me to hire? You Nagy didn't flinch he promised to out work and out anyone in the company. He told wisdom do everything he could learn cell and eventually become wanna keystone, custom homes leader's wisdom liked everything. He heard but worried about Nagy returning to football. His passion for the game was obvious. But Nagy promised his playing days were in the past. He talked it over with Stacy. And they agreed. This was the best move for his family to build a successful business career and volunteers coach on the side after two more meetings. Wisdom offered Nagy the only position he could give a nagging lack of experience a commission based sales job. But with a growing family at home Nagy needed a consistent income he negotiated a salary of one hundred thousand dollars a year. No commission wisdom. Agreed. It was instinct and guts, not exactly good business. Wisdom says I was building for now in the future. And that's why I was willing to take the risk. I believed in Matt and what he could do for our company long-term says Nagy for Larry to jump into my life and take care of me the way he did. It was just special. Sometimes I believe people are brought into your life for certain reasons, and he did that he took care of me. Football comes calling. Nagy spent his first four months on the job learning everything he could about the keystone custom homes operation in June two thousand nine he was finally able to represent the company on the sales floor and impor- weeks amid one of the worst real estate slumps in fifty years Nagy manage to sell six homes I began to see this vision. I had for match potential starting to come true. Wisdom says but a month later football came calling again, one of Nagy's, Delaware. Teammates Brett VH was working with the Philadelphia Eagles and invited Nagy spent three weeks as a coaching intern during training camp Nagy hit intern with the eagles the summer before. But now life was different. He was a few months into a promising new career. He had promised he was done with football. How could he ask for three weeks off these reminded Nagy of the ramifications of saying no out of sight outta mind? He explained I always looked at him as a leader. And a guy who had great ability to communicate and deliver. A message said. VH now general manager of the Kansas City Chiefs. He was one of those guys who instantly prompted to my mind knowing him as a leader competitive and a player that he would be able to transition those skills over to the coaching side Nagy called wisdom explained the opportunity apologize for even bringing it up. He made it clear that if wisdom didn't want him to go, or if it would in any way jeopardize his standing with the company Nagy would say no family was the priority wisdom instead said, yes, I saw it as a business development exercise. Wisdom says I figured he would come back and beyond fire selling homes, I told her to go and get everything out of it that he could. And when it was over come back here and get back to work Nagy did just that with an asterisk when quarterback Kevin Cobb. Sprained a ligament in his knee and training camp. The eagles quickly signed Nagy to their eighty man roster opposing teams cried foul insisting Philadelphia was roster. Stashing by signing a coaching intern who had attended meetings and thrown passes during training camp drills. A day after Nagy signed his contract was next and when his internship ended. He was back selling homes and never I second that I have the thought it would happen. Again, was them says go chase your dream eight months later Nagy set in his office in the converted garage of spec. Home working on some closing papers for a sale when his cell phone rang the area code red two one five Philadelphia on the other line was Andy Reid offering a fulltime job as coaches assistant with the eagles for forty five thousand dollars a year. It was a huge pay cut mostly grunt work, but he'd get his foot in the door. Retold Nagy talk it over a Stacey. That talk west did two minutes before Nagy could accept. There was a phone call. He had to make it was a little after ten thirty at night when wisdom cell phone rang during a late dinner, he saw Nagy's number and assume there was an issue with a customer wisdom stepped out of the restaurant two blocks from his home as wisdom listened to Nagy explained the opportunity. Ity with the eagles. He could sense the uneasiness and his voice he said something about not wanting to let me down. Wisdom says he was uncomfortable with breaking the commitment. He had made I told him that you did the integrity thing he were straightforward and honest with me, there's something bigger going on here. Oh chase your dream. Neither one of us knows where it's gonna lead go. Chase your dream Nagy took the pay cut and bet on himself for a year. He woke up at three thirty in the morning and drove one hundred miles each way from Lancaster to Philly some nights he would just sleep in the eagles offices. He tried to soak up everything he could from read and the entire Philadelphia operation. He did a lot of the dirty work in the grunt work for. Andy says Riddick whose office was just down the hall from Nagy. I said in on a lot of game plan meetings. He'd come asked me a lot of things that I said I saw versus what he saw. I knew he had a great football mind says Nagy, I was the assistant to the assistant once I got in the door. I knew I would make it if you're given a chance and you're driven obsessed and consumed when given the opportunity to prove people, right? The sky is the limit each step along the way Nagy followed in footsteps of Doug Peterson whom he'll match against on Sunday in two thousand ten when read promoted Peterson to quarterbacks coach with the eagles Nagy bumped up to quality control. Coach would Peterson became the offensive coordinator in Kansas City Nagy moved up to quarterbacks coach when Peterson took the eagles. Head job in two thousand sixteen read promoted Nagy to offensive coordinator with the chiefs. It was easy for Matt to climb the ladder. Each says he came in and quickly gained the trust of not only the players, but the coaches two seasons after becoming reads offense coordinator in Kansas City, Nagy became head coach of the bears the journey from new home salesman to NFL head coach was complete. Wow. Beach says when you phrase it that way, it's kinda silly. But with Matt I don't think there's anything from talent or coach. Standpoint that would have held him back. It's just a matter of him getting an opportunity to fulfill his dream. I think the sky is the limit for him says Nagy if you were to say to ten years ago that you would be given these opportunities. What would you do with them? I would tell you. I'd be right here. Nagy admitted this week that after the eagles won the Super Bowl last year. He told Peterson at the NFL owners meetings this past off season that he planned on following Peterson's lead all the way to the Vince Lombardi trophy. He probably doesn't wanna hear that right now. But I'm trying to stick on that path Nagy says a surreal experience this past may ten years after their first dinner in Pennsylvania, Matt Nagy and Larry wisdom met each other at another restaurant this time in Nagy's new home of Chicago, the two stayed in touch over the years with Nagy hosting wisdom and occasional eagles, practices and chiefs games. But this meeting was a bit extra special wisdom grew up just outside Chicago and a family full of diehard bears fan. He loved Ditka tolerated. One stead appreciated lovey and lost hair over Trestman. Now, his former employees his friend who being the one stomping along the Soldier Field sideline leading his favorite football team. It's a real wisdom says for Larry to be a diehard bears fan. Just how crazy life is Nagy added. Wisdom hadn't been waiting long when Nagy walked into the restaurant in may he gave Nagy hog and told him he had two things to get off his chest. I told him one year not all that wisdom laughed your work in progress. And to we sit down people's heads are going to sweat on loci way. Somebody's gonna ask for autograph? Probably my autograph just deal with it comes with the territory, just go with it. And we can get through this dinner over the span of a couple of hours nagging wisdom, joked laughed and reminisced they talked about family, and faith and Nagy's ideas on how to build a winning culture with the bears and they reflect. It on the unlikely path that brought them to this point. It was a very serious agenda. Wisdom says are Castelli I had to give him all those trick plays. The next day Nagy gave wisdom tour of Halas hall since then wisdom is followed this bear season as closely as any keeping in touch with Nagy through Tex along the way, and he can't believe the bears are three wins away from the Super Bowl things in large part to the man he met in Lancaster that night trying to put football in his past. I'm so excited for Matt. Of course wisdom says, but I'm just as excited as a bears fan we wanna Super Bowl, and I know he's wired elitist there it won't be because he's waving a magic wand or calling the right plays. It's about his leadership skills inner strength and his ability to get the most out of the people around him. I believe in Matt now just like I did ten years ago. And I can't wait to see what happens joining me now is ESPN's wage raise Wayne once again, thank you making the time. We waited a week here. The dust is settled the while the term double doing it to Chicago fans like yourself is a four letter word. There is something I wanna point out to you. Well as a huge Boston sports fan. And of course, now in twenty nineteen clearly universally hated people need to understand that. For there was a stretch of time as we would say decades where the Celtics were pretty good. And then everyone else was a disaster. And they were terrible. And the thing is it's one thing to not win. But it's one another thing to not win. And there's no hope the difference here with the Chicago Bears as I feel that for the future. There is a lot of hope. The seeing as a fan Zo, Mike is as I said, a friend of mine there will not be a more enjoyable bear season with this group, then the one that just ended. Yeah. And the reason is next year will come expectations and at some point along the way they will lose a game. They shouldn't lose Mitch Trubisky. We'll have three interceptions in a game. He shouldn't have had three interceptions and the whole world will look like it's ending. I mean, I I would argue that the unexpected twenty fifteen cubs now, obviously, you know, take winning the World Series aside through the course of the season was more enjoyable than the twenty sixteen team just because of those expectations. So yes, there's hope but with that comes the idea of you darn well wanna make sure they delivered given the heartache they gave a lot of the fans. A week ago. But that gets us to our story here where as someone who. I fought like as I more of a student also of the psychology of the game. And I see like, well, everyone dislikes the patriots. As I grew up there. With the crafts and then in the Red Sox and their winning ways. And with John Henry is the owner. It's amazing when they get the right people in place beneath them, how all that seems to sort of permeate through the organization, and that gets us, of course, to your head coach in Chicago, Matt Nagy and. For years. It seemed like there was you know, that path you went on to become a coach you slept on the couch and worked for free and became a software coordinator and then became a head coach. But they will usually not many hiccups in that path. But well now, it seems with coach Nagy, it seems that that's sort of in blown up here in his pack. Yes. Certainly I'm guessing that there are general managers team owners that are like in the back of like home depot's trying to find their next coach 'cause we all know, it's a copycat league. And you you you couldn't have a more unique path to becoming the head coach of of the friend of George Halas is franchise then the path that men Nagy followed. I mean, you talk about someone who was kind of overlooked in highschool over in college played at Delaware ended up becoming an arena league quarterback is NS. Sells died with a tryout with the Packers. I'm not kidding on September eleventh two thousand one like he's stuck. He stuck in Green Bay. 'cause I'm just nobody could travel on those days goes and plays Riina league. And then the arena league folds during the recession, and he's like, basically I have done with football. I've got four kids and a wife I need to support. I can't keep chasing the stream. I gotta go figure out a way to make a proper living, and he all but begged for a job in new home sales. And what's funny is, you know, the original story negatives. Well, he was a realtor. No, no. He was not a realtor. He was a salesman in one of those brand new cookie cutter suburban neighborhoods where you walk into the model home, and there's a guy there with the whole model plan of the neighborhood. Hey, come over here. You know, pick your lot, you know, what kind of coverage. Do you want like on that was doing that? And and and he did really well really really difficult time, you know, financially in our country in a tough time in real estate. And then, you know, the eagles called him to be an intern two years in a row one of his former college teammates, red VH. Now, the GM the chiefs got him in with the eagles. And once he got in there. He decided he wasn't going to sail, and he did every single thing he could and try to learn from Andy Reid and Doug Peterson and Louis Riddick and anybody and everybody was in those those eagles offices. He's tried to soak up whatever he could from. And it's funny like, you know, like like, I said two minutes ago. I look at his story and think it's absolutely crazy. But when you ask him, you know, hey, met, you know, ten years ago when you were selling homes, if we were told you you'd be the head coach Chicago Bears, and you were going. Be in the playoffs. What would you have said? I asked him that. And he goes if you would have told me that I would have gotten the opportunities that I did mean got my door with the eagles so on and so forth. I would tell you. I'd be right here. And he's not just saying that he really believes that it tells you the level of focus and determination and just hard work that he put into which these goals that he wants thought were impossible. But what's amazing, though is, you know, sometimes when you like it's a ward season right now when you see for entertainment and someone gets up, and they wouldn't award and they're like, oh, I have so many people think, and you think do I mean they really like times I comes across disingenuous. But then when you hear the story that you presented like should matinee give get up and say that he absolutely does. Now, we talk you talk a lot about Larry wisdom, though, the guy who took a chance on him with a custom homes, but for me, it seems that the real. Unsung hero in the story. Seems to be the the ravens coach Steve Saunders who wouldn't stop talking about it for sure for sure. So so Steve Steve is the strangest coach of the ravens back, then he was sort of a personal trainer in Lancaster, Pennsylvania and he'd worked with Matt. When that had toys ACL plan quarterback of the arena league, they became friends so on and so forth. Okay. Well, Larry wisdom moves from suburban Chicago to this area. He's the president of this new homes company, basically, and he's working out with Saunders. This trainer. And as Larry says all of a sudden like, you know, they're doing four thirty workouts. And he's like every day. Steve is saying, hey, you gotta be my man. My man Matt bad yet. He's great guy pray for your company on and on and on. And and and you know, Larry explained to me his mentality was look, I'm fighting. Like hell to save the the employee's. I currently have given the current economic landscape. I'm not adding any new employees, and and he just would not quit. And as Larry said, look, like a Kennedy decision that like you don't want to you know, for lack of you. Don't want to get on the bad side of your personal trainer. You could make your life a living. Hell so he's so he's like fine. I'll talk to well talking to interns to dinner and Larry go to dinner with Matt Nagy, and he's like I have zero interest in hiring sky. Nothing don't care. It's basically a favor to my trainer and within ten minutes. He says he realizes that. Matt is a is a special person especial character, and and Larry somebody who's very into corporate leadership and creating environments for success, and he picks up that that Matt has skills, and that has sort of intangibles that you want, you know, leader and. Eventually gets to the point where you offer some job the part that blows me way. Mike is he offers him a job you only job. You can offer it straight commission that has experienced right and Mets and Matt basically convince Larry look. I need a job with a regular salary because I got a family, I can't work straight commission. And so Larry so impressed by math that he that he agrees a hundred thousand dollar a year salary, no commission, and Matt says you'll regret this on and on and on and he goes on. And he sells like you. So's like five homes. I wanna say like in his first four weeks on the floor something like that. And then the NFL comes calling after this, but but certainly Steve harassing Larry. And and not giving up and making that dinner happen is one of the one of the reasons that you know, met ended up where he did. And the other in seems the other unsung always lost. All these stories of these coaches is the fact that you also had. Edited there where mad calls his wife Stacy about an opportunity as the NFL, and like how that conversation was like twelve seconds long. Because here she is like with the four kids bills to pay. But he's basically saying Hello, Honey. I have an opportunity to do what I love in probably take a massive massive pay cut. What do you think? And she was like go for it. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean when he got the call to do the internship a second time around they really wrestled with that. And whether or not to even take it to Larry and bring up the idea that eagles had, you know, called him back. Did you internships thing again? 'cause again, he, you know, Larry had put so much trust in Matt Nagy to work for him. And they both said to me if Larry would have said, no, no, I just hired you. I've invested a lot of money and developing you for as a future lead of our company. I don't want you to go. Oh, they both will tell you he wound to gone like that was that would have been the end there would've been knowing. So and right now that you'd be living in Pennsylvania probably bomb that eagles lost last night that that would have been his story and Larry agreed. You know after Matt reluctantly asked 'cause he saw it as a growth opportunity for Matt go there and learn more and grow more the leader. And you're gonna come back and sell homes like crazy. And that's what he did. Until the eagles. I'm called with the job. And that was the one where it was literally bottoming totem pole, but he talked with his wife Stacey. And they agreed right away that this was something that they should do. And because of the money he made in the time he had worked for Larry that a little bit of financial flexibility that they could do this even though he was taking a a massive pay cut to go from this home sales. To a, you know, beginning NFL bring Andy Reid is coffee type job. But it also seems like when the interactions you were presenting with Larry wisdom, it seems like. Someone like the rest of us who was all seen the movie Rudy in you know, who wouldn't want to go to bed at night knowing that you helped make somebody's like Rudy movement. Mo- moment happened, you know, in a sense that. Yeah, it's whereas to your point a couple minutes ago. Yes. I if they both agree if I said, no he would've stayed there any probably be liking executive VP of the company right now. So on so on, but the person that Larry was is that it seems that he wouldn't be able to live with himself even less than Matt Nagy knowing that he that was there for the taking possibly down the road, and he kind of stepped in the way and said, no for sure no question. I think you know, as Larry look he goes grand plan. I had it fail. It didn't work. He's I invested money in Matt Nagy that didn't end up, you know, returning investment for for our company it he left, right? Having said that he goes Matt has achieved things and grown as a leader in grow. As a person in a ways that he probably never would have if you would've stayed here. And I think, you know, I think to me, you know, living here in Chicago. And and watching the sort of evolution of Matt's first year as coach it's really really interesting to see the way he connects with players his very unique coaching style. The, you know, a lot of crazy place he calls and the things he does they've a purpose far beyond executing. You know to get the next I down or to get a touchdown or two point conversion, whatever, they all have psychological component, you know, bringing the defensive guys on offense and keeping them gauge keeping things fun letting them dance being himself. Like, all these things, you think of you know, you know, you mentioned the patriots, right? Like Bella took like super. Eastern kinda rules with fists his way or the highway mad is a hundred percent of players coach. And every once in a while if you do something you do he will knock your back in line real fast. But it's it's so it's so strategic and so sort of calculated the way he is and the way he brings teams together. And I it's it's it's really been interesting to watch here in Chicago. And you can also counsel them on things like what kind of back splash to get whether or not they should go with the open concept for plan. These valuable tools like for these players buying on. Exactly, exactly. You don't wanna go with the anyone go with the the white cabinets? This thing that you don't wanna go with the cherry. Stop watching HDTV ship lap is overrated with with the bead board. Also, by the way on this play. Thoughtfully. But going back to when he made that leave it seems that like the person that what made Matt Nagy so special to Larry wisdom like baking that quote, the call that final one where it's like, listen, it's not this is more than what we thought. This is what's going to be like, we sense of loyalty clashes with the potential of you know, in like your brain starts probably race like if Menes even half human. He's playing fifty scenarios in his head like I'm gonna call wisdom, and he's probably just gonna scream at me and hang up the phone. But like did was there was there any time? We was able to tell you how difficult was that like ripping the band aid moment is difficult as it would be ready of us. Yes. Certainly, I think there was you know, Larry in great detail. Lot of apprehension hangs -iety in match voice when he made that phone call when when he. You told us leaving. And they went they went to dinner and talk about it, you know, to greater length, and you know, Larry was almost the one he was the one who sort of had to ease mass guilt and say like, hey, like, this is fine. Like, I get it. Go do this go. Chase his dream. You know, there's there's a story where system along the lines. Go chases dream. You know, we don't you don't know where it's going to lead you to yourself and your family to chase this. And I think those words kinda helped set Nagy free to not feel that guilt and be able to pursue that one hundred percent focus and to tell you about Matt's. Character. Look, this is this is one guy along a journey where several people have helped him get to this point. And yet when MAC it's up there year ago and takes head coach of the bears. And you mentioned all the people that have helped him get there over a five five minutes. He talks about this. He mentioned Larry wisdom, and and you know, he he's always sort of remembered and thinks Larry I mean him and Stacy refer refer to Larry as their angel that sort of came in their life at the right time and the and the right place and help them, you know, get on this path. And like that's incredible. To me. This is this is a, you know for lack of better term, you know, a random executive that hired him for a job. He had for less than a year. Yeah. That was my next question. Like, how long did he really did you have the job? I mean, I I don't think he was there more than a year by the time. He got the training. I thought it was about six months or so where he he had the training so little bit one to the internship. I think came back for a month or two and then the eagles calls, so he wasn't there very long. And yet there's a credible sense of gratitude and indebtedness that the Nagy family has to Larry for helping them on this journey, which I think is super super cool and speaks a lots of Mets character and levels appreciation. Also, you don't believe that we either in karma or that we live in the matrix or whatever take your pick. You know, there's only this thirty two head coaching jobs in the NFL, and several of them are kind of entrenched for some time. And yet you'd look no further than Larry wisdom's young protege that Nagy take new for the team that this guy. Larry wisdom grew up living. Yes. That's that's that's a crazy twist of all right is Larry grew up in suburban Chicago. Matt did not know this until he got the bears job had no idea that Larry was a lifelong die hard. There's fan who you know. Love the eighty five bears couldn't stand. Mark Trestman central. Seriously. And all of a sudden, you know, this man, who he you know, becomes friends with kind of helps send on this journey. It all comes full circle, and he becomes the head coach of his favorite team, which is super super cool. And you know, he he told me about, you know, coming here last may, and you know, they went to dinner, and you don't want to house hall, Matt showed him all around. And, you know, saw the, you know, everything, you know, the pictures of pay and everything that that, you know, building. And just you know, it was amazing. And and he and he said to me he goes, look he goes, of course, it's super cool to have a friend of mine who's the head coach of the bears now. Right. That's awesome. But more importantly, he's I'm excited that that Matt Nagy as the coach the bears, and I know this guy, and I know what he's about leaders skills. That's the guy. I want coaching my team, you know, even if we were never friends, and I didn't know him. He's the right guy to help my team get to where I wanted to go, which is super cool. So the last question last you is as a as a bears fan speaking of of bears nation. We've let the dust. Settle the now that you can have a nice healthy chuckle because the eagles lost. Do you agree with what wisdom said as you close the piece, which is quote, I can't wait to see what happens. Absolutely for sure percent. I do you know, I think through the course of the last couple of days with you know, Vic Fangio taking the job in Denver. There was some uncertainty as bear Spanish who would still that spot. I will tell you. I think Chuck Pagano is is a perfect fit. And I think him and Matt have similar leadership styles. And that that couldn't be any better in the defense will be in really really good hands. It'll be it'll be interesting to see what Matt does now with another year where he was Mitch Trubisky. If you think about it, you know, not to not to put these kinds of expectations on Pat or on Mitch, but that had a full year of working with was Mahomes before before Mahomes had this incredible year. He had and this is his first year working with Mitch. So I think there's some expectation that he will be even better next year. And if that's the case. Still in good shape. The one thing obviously is you know, they were they were pretty lucky this year in terms of injuries. Nothing. You know, Eddie Jackson missed I honestly the season. But you never know what's gonna happen in that regard. And you know, if your quarterback blows out his knee or something Sokoto back or whatever everything go up in smoke. But at least it looks on paper. They look really good team. And he looks like the right guy to lead that group through what will be a much more challenging schedule next year for sure Mitch Trubisky, and Matt Nagy in my opinion for a little bit more hope than for example, lovey Smith and Rex Grossman. Bye. No, no question. No question. So I think I think part of it too. I think you know, Matt. If they're smoking to say to be critical of him. I think he was a little bit too conservative with his offense at the end of the year. Not wanting not wanting Mitch to make mistakes and put them in a spot that would sort of threaten that really good defense. And I think Mitch has the ability talents who we saw that last. Dr do a lot more than I think he was allowed to do 'specially late in the year. So I think another offseason them working together and understand each other. I think you know, metal take those handcuffs off and you'll see a team. That's hopefully, you know, just as explosive on offense as they are as dominate defense. Well, I know you'll be watching I know Larry wisdom ably watching so the thanks again, Wayne or but thank you so much again for giving us time. We really appreciate it. All right. Pretty sure it might say care take you remember to subscribe to double truck stories podcast on the ESPN app. Apple podcasts or wherever. You listen to podcasts. Thanks again. And we'll be back soon. With more double truck stories podcasts.

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