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OTM presents: Impeachment Pod, the Taylor Testimony


Being an online dashboard get started today at indeed dot com slash podcast that's indeed dot com slash podcast on the media supported by indeed dot Com. Are you hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates Brian Lehrer show ten A._M. to noon at W._n._y._C.. Dot Org Respondent Michael Isikoff who is also co author of the book on the Russia investigation called Russian Roulette. I'm Michael thanks for coming on today have pain so drip drip now downpour it might have been a watershed day. Let's see where we are with Yahoo News Chief investigative cards so we've been covering all this congressional testimony about the trump Ukraine scandal right drip drip drip a little new damning testimony every day toward conclusions bribery extortion of Ukraine quid pro quos if you prefer that term and for what for Illegally Soliciting Twenty Twenty campaign hell Asadollah Marie Ivanovich because remember she wasn't Pro Investigations Enough William Taylor testified yesterday and his fifteen page opening statement nope from a foreign government you know these basics by now but if it's been drip drip drip yesterday was more like a Geyser a burst pipe award person to pay up before signing the check but Taylor also texted at the time I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with the political has apparently been known for years as meticulous note taker in his State Department work but here's just one more so for now quote Ambassador Sunland Tried Ahnlund that trump wanted Ukraine presidents Alinsky to make a public statement of his determination to get to the bottom of any corruption involving the Bible allowed in a public pronouncement Taylor's fifteen page statement is online if you want to read the day by day log of what he saw and heard this summer Taylor sales in two thousand sixteen and it was to help Hillary Clinton Donald trump according to Taylor trump wanted President Celeski to name these investigations was released to the Washington Post in detail day by day account ambassador Taylor described being told especially Bhai Trump's EU ambassador Gordon foil the witness was trump's current ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor he's the Guy Secretary of state Pompeii oh handpicked to replace the previous and this is impeachment daily podcast from WNYC. I'm Brian Lehrer it's Wednesday October twenty third on his watch we knew about that text message that he had sent on September ninth to to explain to me that president trump is a businessman when a business man is about to sign a trek to someone who owes them something he said the businessman asks the of the sort of broad story that we've been covering for the last month or so look when McMahon Dany made that extraordinary press conference last week those comments at the presser in which he basically acknowledged there was a quid pro quo. I mean the the deal you know the the basic outlines of a deal where clear but but Taylor fleshes it out didn't and the Ukrainian energy company BEREA SMA that Hunter Biden was on the board of and a theory that Ukraine not Russia hacked the DNC man to ambassador sunland saying it's crazy to withhold security systems for help with a political campaign we now know how he got trump everything quote ever quote everything was dependent on zone Linski making this announcement including securities assistance in order to get the security aide to fight Russian aggression trump wanted Zoecke to make this got to that point the conversation he has with Sahlin the week before in which sunland the political appointee the ambassador into the European Union who seems to have take it on the Ukraine brief himself had told him that after talking to you what was most significant about ambassador Taylor's testimony to you well just the the specifics the details of fleshing out granularity and and the real anguish that he felt as a career diplomat seeing this play out the public announcement about investigations into the Biden's and two thousand sixteen minutes let me go to that testimony and I'm going to read you one paragraph and read everybody listening one paragraph from William Taylor's testimony as released as his written opening statement yesterday this is unquote ambassador. John also told me that he now recognized that he had made a mistake by earlier telling the Ukraine officials to whom he the wanting celeski quote in public box he said this is again from Ambassador Taylor's public testimony yesterday the written opening statement he spoke at a White House meeting with presidents Alinsky was dependent on a public announcement of investigations in fact and You could have read them to say that the quid pro quo was really just about a meeting not the security assistance right and Komo also the military aid and other security assistance totalling about four hundred million dollars and then this goes on silent said that president trump wanted President Alinsky a public announcement by Alinsky for a meeting is unsavory but it's not quite as serious as Acid or Samland said everything was dependent on such an announcement including security assist assistance in other words not just a White House meeting about ordering such investigations and it and it so it goes on so what do you see as the significance of trump insisting that's alinsky announcing investigations in public well if you had taken the text messages that had come out the in the previous weeks in a public box and that's Taylor quoting what he was told the trump wants quote in a public box by making a public statement the Russia Ukraine desk officer in the NFC he's now emerging as a looking like a pretty pretty much collapses with Taylor's testimony combined with these text messages combined with the other tests of conversation he has on September seventh with Tim Morrison a National Security Council official who has taken over for Vienna Hill as whiskey himself out in the trump wanted to have it as a campaign talking point another country has seen fit a head of state has seen fit a crucial witness he tells Taylor he had a sinking feeling after listening in on a conversation or learning about a conversation that Sahlin had the Ukrainian people because Russia will be more free to invade right so they're in the in in the passage you just read it's explicit it's not a hold up on the military the military aid that's money that's real that's Taylor said it's life and death death that zone Linski go to a microphone and say he's opening investigations of Biden and the two thousand sixteen election interference the discrepancy And you know hopefully that will be in public and we we need to take note of that why at this point is all this still taking place behind closed doors this testimony this vital testimony the public should be able to see it here it evaluate the did Taylor personally detailer personally hear the president say these things about demanding Ukraine and the Biden's and twenty sixteen thus the meeting it's the aid itself and then you go on just a few graphs later in Taylor's testimony where he recounts this remark private as you just referenced and three the President Writes Taylor off in a tweet as a radical unelected bureaucrat. He didn't say that about Taylor specifically but the money that's come in there's a conflict there by the way between Sunlen and and Taylor just had with trump and according to morrison trump told someone that he was not seeking a quid pro quo but he was insistent he saw this as US military aid for health with trump's reelection and ambassador sunland responses to him also in writing so what is yeah now that's that's pretty clear so I think that the the no quid pro quo defense which was has been the White House Defense and the Republicans Defense at for the past month this has been unfolding in it's against Taylor is basically three things so far one it's just hearsay to the hearings are self are taking place in we're going to have to make their public ace and bring all these very important witnesses back before the TV cameras to testify in public that trump defense at this whole group of State Department officials who've been testifying radical unelected bureaucrats and actually WanNa take each of these briefly I hear say to open an investigation into these things so you see American People Biden must be corrupt and the two thousand sixteen Russia story must have been a hoax something like that don't you think example Fiona Hill who was trump's Russia and Ukraine advisor she testified that national security adviser John Bolton was furious about Rudy Giuliani all he was in the middle of this he was relying what he had been told about these conversations or what he learned from these about these conversations so hill Kurt Volker another trump Ukraine envoy testified that he and William Taylor and acting assistant secretary of State Fil Rica shared with each other their concerns about Giuliani Volcker said they were just very uncomfortable with him being active then there's Michael Mckinley Secretary of state pompeo's so remember that Song Wind you know he was talking directly to the president now is he going to deny senior aide until two weeks ago he testified that he just resigned because of quote what appears to be the utilization of our ambassadors overseas credibility of these witnesses I think the Democrats are starting to realize this they cannot maintain these this closed door testimony for much longer which would be more than hearsay of Taylor's text messages to ambassador Assan Lynn in the summer in which he stated in writing that would vance domestic political objectives on quote and Gordon Samba and himself trump's controversial e you ambassador who by the way is not a career Janis politically motivated shadow Ukraine operation. She's the one who said Bolton described Giuliani as quote a hand grenade who's going to blow everybody up so that's Fiona with other witnesses most of them trump appointees who have also testified so I went back over account so some of the other witnesses from the last two weeks and we have for it is is this sufficient four impeachment and removal and I think that diplomat but a career hotel developer like trump who donated a million dollars to the trump campaign and then poof was named Master Europe even Gordon Sanmen testified I what Taylor says he told them maybe but you know that's why we need these public works well in fact I thought these are pretty clear at this point and we're going to get back to that private we're GONNA come back to that private testimony versus it be useful for our listeners following impeachment news at this point in the conversation to take a minute and put Taylor's testimony side by side so at this point one of the things that's going to have to happen is both silent and Taylor has to come back and testify and clear up this very clear you know we need to see and hear that public case to break through but the allies of the case and the details of the case not due to a defensive hearsay. Yeah I mean look I mean hearsay can be evidenced if it's corroborated elsewhere the public testimony that everybody agrees needs to come in a minute but let's take another trump defense that I mentioned the Taylor and other recent witnesses he started his civilian service in the federal government for President Reagan he was first appointed Ukraine ambassador by President George W Bush I mean that's crucial testimony This is this is this is how you build a case and let's see in who aren't following this at the level of granular detail to share a little bit of William Taylor's bio he was a West Point Cadet he fought in Vietnam a Ukraine than Obama was doing and then he was brought back this year by Secretary of State pompeo obviously trump loyalist to replace ambassador let's see how one can credibly sustain an argument like that now I mean credibility is important seeing and hearing witnesses you did that from two thousand six to two thousand nine he did not serve President Obama's my understanding but rather was part of an organization that lobbied Obama to do more for embassador to Ukraine as a radical I mean it just it's nonsense obviously I mean it just it's hard to with the trump agenda so what happens if they do hold public hearings and they compare that history of service with the president's or being busted at it he's he did not he's hearing it from Sabra and he's hearing it from Morrison there is documentary evidence though Onlin had been insisting he never would have been a part of any quid pro quo that was his testimony last week it's now clear that he was you know that's what trials are for that's what you know public testimony in hearings are for and But just get saying these hearing so far are illegitimate all I'm asking is give Donald Trump the same rights as Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton had when it comes to impeachment and I'm insisting all right let's get to the private testimony public testimony defense here's what Lindsey Graham demanded on Fox News last night in the context with Gordon somnolence if there's a discrepancy between their testimony in terms of witness credibility I mean look to describe somebody doc and Michael I did there was cut and paste from the few news articles in the last few weeks but you see how it's all consistent I it certainly consistent like I said continue to do this behind closed doors I've covered congressional hearings for decades now you know this is not the first time we've seen something like this and what they're what they tell you is your remember that Taos Ski hearing before judiciary you want another circus like that they're afraid that if they had bill Taylor with that kind of background who served Republican and Democratic administrations who fought for his country who

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