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Leveraging Data in Marketing with Carrie Palin, CMO at Splunk


welcome to mission daily today Chad has joined Harry Palin chief marketing officer at spunk where she is in charge of all things marketing prior to joining spunk Carey served as the Cmo of Sun Grid and was the first CMO at Lee is created by our team at Michigan Dot Org IBM and at Ericsson and I ended up wanting to go to IBM because I was leading marketing for what they call a small startup inside of IBM but it was basically My Dad was actually in tech when it wasn't cool back in the sixties and seventies and so we were little bit of corporate Gypsies Moving Around Between Minneapolis Boston Massachusetts welcome to the show thank you so I'm excited to have you here I would love to start at the beginning so if you'll humor me let's go back to the beginning where'd you grow up and where you from yeah so Twenty years and sixteen seventeen of them at Dell and woke up one day and my husband looked at me and he said hey are you going to be a lifer Adele and it are very cool and when you're thinking about planning your exit or your next exploration what was kind of on your radar that point and when did you decide to leave awesome and and I started furiously reading marketing books because I was so scared that I didn't know what I didn't know so anyhow that started there and then I spent you know over the course of to discuss her career experiences and the leadership lessons she has learned along the way as well as how to succeed as a new CMO and what to do when you're leader in an organization that's being acquired mission low key and pragmatic both grew up in farm country Self made so they count always kept grounded so I never got the kind of everything is bigger in Texas Dallas Austin but settled in Austin so I spent the bulk of my formative years there so I consider myself in Austin I it's gross yeah any fond memory maybe we make a leap to the valley and you know there was a little trepidation going from big corporate to working for a thirty one year old founder. CEO But my husband and I just decided you nev- you don't take a little risk in life website grew up just eyeball deep. If I wasn't playing sports I was watching sports just very Texas of me I know but also raised by two mid Westerners who are just crazy when he asked me that I thought Oh my God like am I going to be a life for a Dell I hadn't even really thought about it and then ironically a couple of weeks later to recruiters called at the same time for roles at so I so I left for college and came back right afterwards I started my career at Del in marketing so it actually to be clear started in PR INTERNAL PR How to port all their on prem software to SAS and offered on blue mix which was their platform that was competing with aws and so I got to work for a forty two year old founder Sassandra you're for a year in some change and it was wonderful I learned to doing got out of Hardware Ville learned about SAS and then IBM reort and box came calling and I thought okay from the Austin area and he formative experiences in Texas that you could share? It's all sports all the time where I come from the NFL Super Bowl quarterbacks went to my high school judge where I am a big proponent of diversity I always have been but like it's it's now in front and center of everybody's vernacular and diversity inclusion at every company and what have you well and I think what I'd like to focus on throughout your story is some of the leadership lessons that you learned whether you were learning them from others or where you were kind of like implementing them I will tell you my career would not be where it is today without some amazing male mentors and advocates an allies throughout my career that's one there are some really incredible people there I speak external professional manner externally I always talk about the fact that I'm an album of all the great mentors and leaders that I've worked under over the course of my career thing happening in our house because they always kept us honest and never to overblown for our skis and it was it was great as Austin was a wonderful place to grow up and for sure Dell also hired some amazing people are you know interestingly Dell has been able to track great talent because for a long time they're SORTA ahead of the game in in disrupting markets even though that and within three months they moved into a brand manager assistant brand manager role in marketing and that's where my marketing career started haphazardly they didn't ask me they just put me in there every even occurred to me because it's just Dell just it was so much that anchor of Austin and there were so great at developing your career so I had a new job every eighteen months and see how kind of on the cutting edge they are so they do integrated product placements in movies and all kinds of media it's really exciting so out operational excellence and reliance on data before data science and data analytics were actually something that we're sexy Dell was eyeball deep in data at all time to hear about like you know early results at Dell and what you learn there so dell is really fascinating for a number of reasons so we just started working with them and it's kind of it was shocking for me mentioned that every eighteen months you were getting a new position a new job what was that culture like there and what were some leadership lessons took away from your time at Dell Yeah you know it's funny whenever comes in we knew the numbers we understood our business regardless of what role we played and I will always appreciate that from a corporate culture standpoint but also my mentors taught me about that it finally left del the hardest part was leaving the amazing people there and as far as leadership lessons go I will tell you number one results matter we used to joke at Dell that is and it it propelled my career because I was I became a data driven marketer when most marketers weren't and all of a sudden it became very in vogue and then I had a set of skill as a does about your people in so curing the best team possible every single day is my number one job and I think the lesson I've learned over the years is that if you it's pretty boring so let's give us a world we kept our house in Austin just in case of land but a year later we sold it because it turned out to be the best move of my career were relatively unique as a leader that fast track my career so I'm greatly appreciative for that I also will tell you that as a leader it becomes so much less about US learned many of them came from days at Dell and so I I in interestingly almost all of them were exclusively men and most of them white men so you know in this day and age you weren't built on Ip necessarily as a company but also because they were the game down in Austin taxes and anybody who wanted to live in Austin and knew about what a secret it was back twenty years ago right that allow for you to be your best self and even if it's time off to go run marathons whatever that is but when the company's healthy stresses lower people a happier it just all kind of place together so for me I loved becoming data driven in that capacity and as Mara Tech has advanced did and able to bring their best version of themselves and then every you know all boats rise and everyone wins but that means that it's not just Aurora that means making hard decisions avenue that is marking source marketing influenced and in a way that is or good function neutral between all the go to market functions and it's really bannon exciting time wanted to remain there typically stayed at Dell so they're able to retain talent wasn't the like the valley where everybody moves around and so they built this culture of family that was pretty special when Lucite that even for a nanosecond you've missed it so going back to my Texas Sports Kinda roots I always say that my job is putting the right team on the field but the right team captains matter most hi highest performers and highest potential folks in a way that's meaningfully different than the rest of the pack and then also the folks aren't pulling their weight and you know I'll give you an example you had danced and we are Abe and data science and data analysts like we are able to actually get her hands on as marketers compelling data that actually threads the needle all the way through five ten so I played a lot of all I played basketball and then I also and this is a funny one but I was competitive cheerleader that like was on together most importantly just foundational skills that have played very well in my adult life that I'm so grateful to have gotten at that age very cool and let's shift gears Knbr so you don't have the rest of your org flailing because they see that you allow that as a leader and you're not taking care of the people who are busting their butts for the organization right people who don't show up to work for weeks on end and they're posting on social outlets that they're doing something other than work with their poll drawing a paycheck and yet they're friends with half your Oregon Social Media people sure I'm in so when we talk to leaders about like what does that look like well it to me the number one priority is curing fringes of your org so looking after your there's moments you your time getting ready for the move out here to box so at the time box post IPO they were it was still kind of early days because you know if the PNL doesn't look none of us have opportunity right opportunity pies and can expand for everybody if we're not focused on data and the PL so when you first encounter because as they go so the rest of the team goes and our job is to enable every single member of my team to come and do their very best work every day and feel safe in include her and we finally just kinda sat down at the when we decided to do this thing that he and the Coo Dan Levin Him I adore and Dan was direct line manager you need to give me lots of feedback because I type of sports did you play and let's start there so I grew up with a brother and in a neighborhood of all boys and older brother so and tall which you can't tell from listening to a podcast now there's a lot in implied in that but it's a lot of work it's every day I think what you mentioned about the foundation of that culture revolving around data and the pianolas best and I think across the year tenure box revenue doubled with you as the CMO Getting to lead that team I'd be curious to know what was that like getting ready to to be a marketer especially in the last eight years because of all of these changes and advancements in marketing from a technology standpoint yeah it's definitely an exciting time but I'm curious to know what thrive on feedback so give me the guardrails and tell me when I'm making decisions that you're not happy with or supportive of and guide me as far as I'm ramping into box but let's go do this thing and join and then what was that experience like yeah says it's really actually funny story the back to the thirty one year founder and we actually had gone public right before I joined me it was as a success of the company goes she'll goes our personal success in so waking up everyday and thinking about how I can help drive the piano better four del he were sweeping the floors you need to know where the piano was at that day in the quarter if one of our GM's walked by and asked you I mean it was just we were such a PL driven culture and so I learned other people and then he'd give me homework for my flight home I'd send it to him that night at one am when I'd lander whenever it was and he'd get back two days later and it was a classic Silicon Valley General Sports just taught me a lot about resilience you know when you get your butt kicked how do you get back up the next day in and work harder and excellence and working maybe think about the fact that that will enable our stock price and everybody would be happier because we can afford college educations for our kids and live in and all those things matter outside of work would've grinder through because I had never actually done a public company CMO role writer and he really was trying to figure out how to solve some things in a lot of things were but a time to help our kids me and kind of be available to get settled and he's off to his next venture right now kind of standing up another company at box I know that that that kills morale right so you've got to stay on top of that stuff to make sure that if somebody's not happy and they're not performing well that you're mmediately in the weeds with them figuring out what's the right solution the national cheerleading championships every year so to nationals I mean people don't realize that it's an actual sport but it is and it was a lot of fun but I think in that data culture in that maniacal focus on the piano how did you react to that right did you think oh this is a culture about money or did you know this there's something deeper going on here now oh no big deal but just a minor knit just kind of lay the groundwork buttocks had had their first bad quarter since going public not bad but not awesome it using your ears and your mouth in the same proportion that God gave them to you and so that was that I will tell you that you know the morale is pretty low at that time with marketing as huge listening tour doesn't matter where I go you don't know eat out now and you really need to listen at every level the organization every stakeholder you can learn a lot right by so my husband and I took a deep breath and dove into the deep end the pool and away we went and were now actually buying house Silicon Valley and putting down we're just crazy three years broken within the marketing org at that time and to no one's fault but they hadn't had to see him on over a year and things were sideways and they weren't able to measure things and they didn't have the right Marta Stack and was just they had never run a true tier one campaign and market like just basic fundamentals of blocking and tackling sweet a lot to kind of figure out if I was right for them if he was right for me and that culture faster than a normal clip and so it we had a very open good culture as a company we marking struggled as a subculture subculture of that code turn so I worked on that primarily with the team and then also making moves on the leadership team to kind of get the right team captains in place and then we skin crawl you know he likes to swing for the fence and I like to work for the man so it's all good but he had just sold his company in Texas right before we moved so it was a perfect time perfect time and so he had a little and so I interviewed for three months and I usually fly out here on Sundays in the morning and fly back on Sunday nights and I do hours with the CEO and and that concerned me the most because when you want to retain your talent and also build an attract talent as the number one job of a cmo you'd have to get into that immediately and earning trust customers didn't understand what that was we were owning our space at the time which was the content collaboration space where the drop boxes Microsoft one drives play but we also had such you mentioned they had never done like a tier one campaign or anything like that was your first ninety days like there was the first campaign maybe you put together and launched yeah so I it Kinda sat down and re we were going through a brand re imagination at the time so when I got there we were calling ourselves the modern content platform and frankly it just fell flat lake point right so now what was that like for him and yeah yeah he's he's amazingly bright it's definitely my better half but he's an entrepreneur and takes risks that I that ourselves at this juncture of those two categories where we believe the puck was going in the market but they hadn't gone yet and I will tell you the team there that I was lucky enough to inherit did a masterful job sometimes being very simple and hammering the market with a very simple message that people already have a head space for but maybe just a small tweak to it is radically getting the gardeners enforcers of the world to believe in that and move that direction with us kind of leading the charge and we went this whole category rebuild where we called ourselves coach Hugh I think sometimes honestly as marketers we tend to over rotate on creativity and we sometimes just confuse folks more trying to be too cute a content management and so it took a while for us to kind of all convince each other that cloud content management implied that it was something very modern but that we could draft off of a larger market that CIO's I even though it was a smaller company it was still public and growing thirty plus percent year over year so it was functioning well but it was needing it sort of next step and growth and understood the budget line item for because modern content platform was something that no one had a budget line item for sure right and it makes the job of our sales people so much harder when they go to market Croat marketing campaigns to get the market educated on that but the boxes of the world don't don't have that in spunk doesn't have that level of marketing investment either we have decent amount so it it ended up landing really really well and the team did an amazing job and you know give all credit to them because they were amazing our brand team and our content team leaving shafter the acquisition Shum how most go about that in any tips for CMO's that are currently going through an acquisition or career change totally an leave your ego at the door all discovered try by which was part of our portfolio box and a big portion IBM but it was wholesale marketing own revenue so it changed the dynamic of what my role was kind of like a CMO send grid passing off the the rains or whatever you WanNa call it to Sarah and then transitioning out because you know obviously it's kind of bittersweet but the reality was it wasn't about me it wasn't about making sure that we kept everything in a capsule and didn't touch it the reality was we needed to do as salespeople to start talking about security all the reasons why enterprises by right totally have you noticed that throughout your career that like small tweaks to existing campaigns or ideas can make huge results for number one when you're being acquired number two remember that like this wasn't a merger this was an acquisition and Tulio is incredibly gracious acquisition and treat us more like a merger but you need to be able to draft off a big themes and market so that you can get broader play so what was that transition from box to send grid to spunk like but I knew that over time our role would change once we required which I stayed through the acquisition which I was happy to do but the day that was announced splint called and I it wasn't ready to talk yet but when I was everything fell into place I wasn't looking to leave but when I think when the magic happens things literally everything falls into place so as a great run and I loved it but I was ready for my next adventure when San Grade came calling and I'm a big believer you work people loved working for Dan Levin and right for the greater good man so I will tell you serve Arnie's just outstanding I have so much respect for her and I'm so happy she was someone who's happy to give my team to in our product marketing team just really you know kind of put it all out there and it is landed really well for box adding that one word of cloud can help t I mean the reality is at some point after an acquisition it's very rare that brands stay separate and there isn't a brand lock between the two and so think about what's going to drive aunts feature set that we are eating away at enterprise content management so classical tax documentum that type of thing and the world didn't know about it so we were trying to reinvent are no concerns you know you're in the right place and so so if you wouldn't mind I'd love to go into some more detail about what that handoff was like and what the process of you a month into being there twilla announcer intent to purchase us which was awesome twilla fantastic company I have nothing but respect for where they're going and their leadership teams it was all it's all pretty recent rising join spunk in February your send grid prior to that What was that transition like so I left box after tune accordingly important especially when you have the budgets of Microsoft Amazon to go pushing the market right I mean azures it's success in Cortana is success because Microsoft has zillions of dollars and was a big acquisition at the time I think it was maybe the third or fourth largest all stock transaction ever in tech like it was significant and I remembered yeah I knew immediately the spunk was where I wanted to be the reason I did is number one I'm very comfortable in the Wall Street cadence and public company I also will never work for company again you're to save so curious what does your husband do and how is that move for him because you know taking a C- a CMO role I'm sure time wasn't like he didn't have a lot of time with them Erin Levy loved it I really fell in love with in a professional way in an on creepy professional way with Samir Laka who is the CEO send grid he's just not Julie and and I know that she's taking good care of them already and will only take them to the next step so that allowed for me to put on my team hat and not think about it as box a cloud content management company Carrie also served as the VP of marketing for IBM's cloud data services in Analytic Software Division on this episode Carey joins US I won't mention names but a couple of hot companies that have gone IPO this year called at the same time spunk did and they were awesome and I was so thrilled that they called but route and so when you do feel that way it's easy to behave in a way that's right by that every day and so on day one even though it wasn't originally the plan a you know a third to a half it's very technical product but the room that spun cast grows substantial in the market so how are you looking at that opportunity and what made you really excited about joining yeah it's funny using guy and probably one of the best leaders in the valley and When I met with him I thought yeah I could learn from the sky and I've got so much to learn still but also marketing owned about ninety percent of the revenue it's grades suits God's name would you sell right now you guys are growing over thirty percent year over year you're profitable you know the rule forty applies like you guys are kicking ass why would you do that in the same time the other half the room were looking at I get it and it was so beautiful to see that transformation in the course of an hour and an I believed to that it was really the right thing for companies just William what's the greater good and also my team's thrilled to work for her so it was an easier transition than normal but check your ego at the door thing about what's right for the greater good right My team moved under Sarah immediately and that was the right decision so and ultimately most of them will will move over as the transitions occur but there is a need for keeping some things hyphen saying we think he ever paid for this company why did you do that and the rare right but at the end of the conversation after an hour just about every analyst was like separate because Sandra does monetize online Tulio for the most part monetize off line so it's just you know getting all that Martic and websites to integrate it's non trivial let's talk about spunk for a moment because I did get your philosophy or your mental models that you're using for how you evaluated this opportunity because spunk is exciting spe- sitting in the room when Samir Geoff Lawson and we're speaking with financial analysts right at at their customer event at signal and half the analysts were like smear why the greater company forward back to sort of those Dell lessons it's about how do you especially when you're publicly traded writing how do you deliver to Wall Street they're expecting when you do a big acquisition for twenty it is an honor big growth trajectory that has been validated by a quarterly earnings road right and so S- plunk most folks don't realize what rarefied we're we're in right now at spunk I mean growing forty plus percent year over year at two billion in revenue is rarefied air yeah very few software companies have ever the things I believe in God but I will tell you that I think God put me in Susan's Organization for a reason many reasons She Lost Her dad a little over a year ago order was just beyond belief they were so amazing to me and I'd only been on the payroll for three days and it just reaffirmed to me the human beings I worked for matter more than anything and the culture around the leadership team and the whole company matter so I will never ever again work for a company where else and and that should only be two three things but you should not negotiate on those and I feel the same way about life lake ruthless prioritization and this brought me a friend Shannon Brayton his assume Lincoln as she she and I have kids in the same classes and she's on my first friends in the valley but she always said to me no no you're nonnegotiable adjourn and we need to get to fully grown adult stage as far as my skill set is concerning getting to rapid growth and and massive scale is my happy okay and so knowing that you all to some degree see the world the same way or you know young kids and I needed to know that that was okay with Doug and Susan because there are moments where I had the great privilege of inheriting Pretty Healthy Marketing Team here so that's not always the case when companies are searching for new CMO's and oftentimes unsure today's post surgery and that was not expected and the way that Susan and dug in this organization treated me for the three weeks took off after that to take care of my mom and get things route what it takes each person's different right but for me focusing on the priorities in life and getting back to the basics on what really matters versus what is just noise I'm going to have to step out of something important to go take care of my kids but then I can be back on at midnight if I need to write and that's not okay with some does that is okay with others and they've been And so that was amazing but my team gave me a little bit of space to kind of get my footing and they all gave me a little bit of runway to get ramped into here probably more than normal spot versus being pre IPO And but that super important to me from the type of company I want to work for the other thing is back to that comment about who you worked for matter aide the best decision I've ever made in my career to come to spunk not only because it's an amazing company but because I'm working for the right people and it makes me want to work even harder to make this company a success that's a that's far and I'm very grateful it hasn't been without its lumps but every night go to bed thinking about the good stuff and I think that accelerates healing for sure when it comes to building your marketing team a lot on your plate all at once when you just joined the company how did you get through that and is there any You mentioned that Doug and Susan were helpful in that how'd you get through everybody believes at the CMO role is about the shortest tenure in the Valley H. B. R. Report shows is dropping from eighteen months maybe less than that now so it's crazy ably gracious to me and to the point that three days into my tenure here my Dad had an emergent heart issue and had to go home for his surgery and he didn't make it past here at spunk I'm curious how are you thinking about building that team and you mentioned earlier marketing is basically building a subculture inside a larger culture how's that going so the time and it's really hard for people to find their footing when they don't have some stability the leadership layer so my number one job when I got here was to take all these talented people and and just lay bare the into very clear focus about what that is and and also I think just remembering every day like being having gratitude I mean I have had a wonderful life is not how like to start I'd like to be fast and furious in life and you know I needed a little bit of time to get my sea legs again which I've got back and I think it's important to me for inclusion and diversity are actually at the forefront of our culture and we live it every day versus just talking about it and writing it on the wall I will never work for people who aren't wonderful humans at their core a lot of things you know transparency and clarity a leadership team that actually works together versus against each other and so I've been working very hard to sit down and figure out what it was very close to him much like I was with mine my dad was my best friend and mentor as well as being my dad so if there's one person who had walked out on their shoes you really understood it was her not that I'm a human being to and I'm here listen I'm here to learn but I'm also here to help them get to their very best version of themselves collectively as a team I truly believe I outside of work so dug in season and I spent a lot of time interviewing and I asked for more dinners and more meetings and more beans before I met anybody else then Pat Lindsey on his book the advantage where they talk about or he talks about smart and healthy ORCs are the ones who really succeed and health it's very crucial that health means because we're very technical product that you know data centers love and it Geeks love insecurity Seaso's and CIO's but if you don't run in that because I wanted to make sure that the three of us really were on the same page as humans were right because it gets gnarly messy and stretchy at the staff level in any country in April so you'll see stuff coming in the not too distant future that's going to S- crystallize in our next phase of growth as a company and what we offer the market I think is pretty brilliant there's the embrace data chaos campaign that came last year and then the dark data report that came out I believe in February march April are we spending money that smart where we spending money that's not was the Roi look like on everything that we're putting in market are we under-resourced in areas of headcount and turns out our product marketing was really under-resourced thing. What whatever even if it's you know I don't WanNa get political but election hacking I mean there's data out there that we can't get our hands on back to the dark data the reality is so much the problems and spunk solves data problems and we allow you to get to your data real time pretty much wherever it lives and then go sulfur those data problems and lane you may not have always heard a spunk and so our intent is to educate the broader market on his Blunkett's because the reality is we believe most problems are ultimately playing in hygiene of an organization going on so that we can then go do our best work and go from one dollar and fifteen dollars out of pipeline to one representing these spunk brand where obviously like trying to learn as fast as we can prepare any type of guidance or maybe like your brand guidelines that you have that you'd like to talk about of an organization's data is not accessible visible and we all need to know what's going on in order to solve we can't manage what we cannot measure broke right and so S- plunk is so much bigger not good and and I think there are a lot of reasons for that but I think misalignment between Simos and CEO's and CEO's during the interview process it's a big part of that as a consequence marketing Org skip thrash because they've new leaders were not just a technology company like again if you look at what's going on the world just about every problem needs some sort of data to solve that right whether it's human trafficking or global warming it's arresting it catches your vision but what campaigns did you inherit and anyone's that you can talk about now all are created for the most part is done in house and I have to say the creative team has make minimal change to the team because that's thrash e but the changes that are necessary in the first six months so that we can set it and move forward knowing that this is how we will stable Taylor and get to twenty eight to thirty in the not-too-distant future because that's what I'd like to be doing what type of campaigns did you inherit so I've seen a number in the Wall Street Journal and other places I I love love the field thing as moving to the bay I'm a commuter now in my only quiet time in my life because I have two young people and a brand new puppy and an organization at spunk is during my commute in crazy talent so that we can take this technology to the next level and beyond and so that's GonNa be for our brand it's really elevating it right now and I know people say in spunk that's the type of thing that I know pushes many people over the edge from being interested to getting more info because with three hundred fifty engineers that's a lot so any organ CTO that are putting together lies for the future and for you know twenty one will be the big era of major movement and contribution from marketing perspective we needed this year to sort of sort through than what people have previously known us as as we're expanding our portfolio and our innovation curve is ramping up in rapid speed like back to why I came here sexy ideas that are coming to fruition in an incredible leader leading that organization and so I thought you know that's where I wanna be I wanna be at this place where we're going to be hiring at scale yeah you know like I'll give you some Meta level ones keep some guardrails and then as soon as we launched the new branding I'd love to get in the weeds on the on the more specific guidelines but I would say number one back to the fact that we're two billion in revenue we're probably one of those brands it that the fewest people know of that are actually two billion in revenue and part of that is but I find that audio has had a renaissance because of all the commute lifestyle that we're all in these days whether it be on a train in your car what have you I literally bud compared to you in product management that a bolt up in the last year and compared to our field sales which had bulked up and all of a sudden they're getting squeezed so getting that right-sized and just all the basic blocking and tax that bit truthfully we've been in the bowels of the data center and kicking but I mean no pun intended but we need to be where CEO's understand that we are their best friend and SEASO's no that is well and we are used for much broader use cases and applications that were being used for today but I think the world needs to understand that and I think that everybody out there that's listening that might be interesting Oh you're GonNa see our messaging coalescing around that concept and I'll be exciting to watch that Solution I think that the your podcast campaigns are going great though just one of the the car that I bought in the last year and I'm not a car persson because the software who so good player wanted to one click apple carplay just listen to this so I think a lot of people actually feel the same way and so I love audio and I feel like the world is gravitating towards audio and even just books that I want I used have a stack of books on my nightstand and I'd just blow through him every night I don't have that luxury anymore in so I listen to books like literally while I'm on the road I listen to podcasts getting information so are there any favorite audio sources that you mentioned audiobooks any good books come to mind any good podcasts that you're listening to when I interviewed with Tim Kelly He told me they had hired like three hundred fifty engineers in the last year in the valley I bought choked I mean no one does that right unless you've got an incredible roadmap really level of campaign and project that's really exciting and those are just net new in the last year on top of the engineers we already had this grace large organization that is doing great yeah so I will say again and I know a lot of people read this book but I just think if you're a leader and you're trying to curate great leadership dynamic the advantages literally one of my favorite books I just awesome says up supposedly partly us we're really excited for that what tips you have for us when we're out creating all star last dog a year ago Friday on my daughter's fifth birthday sadly so we brought home the new one on my daughter's six birthday and he is a six month old therapy train now I think the five dysfunctions of a team are also good Lonnie I just I'm sort of a Lindsay on believer but I I truly think the advantages is a non starter for any leader mark data how do I make my or more of data data driven org any any high level tips I literally just about everywhere I go in a new job I make sure that so we like to call podcasts and audio especially augmented reality that works it doesn't require extra tinkering or anything to set up does it require a new device but you can do more while you're learning while you're if I can put plug in go visit elderly human sometimes San you now tell me appreciate them they need to hear that about yeah so but Thawra Elizabeth Earmarking Lens is a whole discipline and you need someone if they're pitching that data T. needs somebody who didn't catch it and so you need some folks embedded marketing I firmly believe that it doesn't need to be an army people I am a World War Two history freak I do a lot of that just because I read about dog training 'cause I've got a six month old unruly puppy so mark what type of mediums are you most excited about now or is it video is it audio is Vr ar or is just classic digital you know it's interesting me it's super important to understand this is human and science put together and technology and people and so you need to find great people reward great read it again and we're about to train on it here with my leadership team at spunk and I did that at box that's the number one I'd go read and then I listen to stuff that's not work related Elena Causes Sirodzhev your org like that the what they teach you in the practical steps on how to run staff meetings and things of that nature I just find INCR- like husband is pressing buttons he's like do you massage your friend I was like I don't know he's like you do we had no idea 'cause I just wanted the software circle I and my belief is leave typically have a centralized org that has the the Bible if you will of the company data but analyzing that the German shepherd so he'll be able to do nursing home therapy in the not-too-distant future which I'm pumped about what's another side passionate mine it's a very neglected portion of our population in the state so learn from it and and truly fail fast is going to be the difference between the ORG succeeding in not succeeding in data's going to be at the base of that and when you're talking with your other friends that number one before I I signed onto a new company that the CEO the COO supportive of me hiring data analysts data scientists some don't believe that needs to sit in markets weeds on data with your team you're missing it 'cause David things are moving fast so I like to have a basic dashboard set up you know within the first few months of working somewhere where when here we go I'm speaking German shepherd puppy could you introduce them maybe when he came home on Friday actually in front of any organization I curate and and lead and they make me better and I would tell a leader that if you're not at least twice a week getting in the doc without being distracted on the road and I literally bought the car and within ten minutes of seeing it also created this car once suffered greatly go I have no idea like I got the car a set of tools that will surface the data for you but you need people who strategically can can glean insights and make recommendations on that and so his name my nine year old by nine year old son got the first name in my five now six year old daughter got the middle name and it was almost thought euro as I think we need some folks to do that and it's just as much human talent as it is a technology so whether you're working with or whether you have tableau without or what have you you're going to have it functions right we all come up in different swim lanes because there are so many functions within marketing some them came from product marketing some of them and brand some of them calms I've friends who came up through you see Mozilla valley when I first got here and they have remained friends allies trusted advisers the whole thing and we we share a lot and I there's a very consistent theme with it's not just about your brand anymore about your calms it's truly about the performance of the business and marketing in most companies has a very legitimate seat at the table and significant seat in many over I think even early stage leaders like thing you forget about is is curated healthy dynamic and you don't talk about the tough stuff in the team meeting rooms you talk about it and back so that you can get on it because things are going to happen right in the business isn't always going to be a well-oiled machine but how you respond to it how quickly you get on top of it surface at talk about it people learn from great people and check your ego at the door very cool and when it comes to working with Susan and Doug they've been guests and I loved interviewing them learned a lot Dr SBP's of marketing or CMO's here in the valley are there any themes that you notice about other CMO's facing similar challenges or do you continually hear the same story cases and so the onus is as far as being a contributor as massive and so whether an end but what's interesting is CMO's right now have come up in different it's and Casablanca's already a global product but are you thinking about expansion there Early things you can share could we go harder in she lay yes I'm sure we could see pretty clear line of sight to getting there yeah the one theme from Susan's interview is just like the global scope of how thinking about everything how are you thinking about emerging markets an amazing leader and a and also really good human but I would say that she is the lifeblood of this company behind Doug and allow the success which is wildly important especially as

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