Will virtual dates stick around after the pandemic?
Hey. Everybody it's Neil I from the verge cast special third episode in the field today, not the verge chest. But why did you push that button? One of my favorite podcasts that we put on hiatus plan Caitlin tiffany went to the Atlantic Ashley Carmen convinced her to come back record special episode of Roger Perset Button about dating in the pandemic under quarantine under lockdown. The tools people are using how relationships are developing I love the show so much I am so happy. CAITLIN did a little renegade episode with US check it out. It's Ashley and Caitlin with you. Push that button. Hello and welcome to wide. You push that a show where CAITLIN. Tiffany Hello Ashleigh Carmen. That's me examine all the choices. Technology forces us to make. We are back sort of just for now. Just I hit a yeah. A little one off for all of you who have stuck with us. For this almost year, since we last released in episode I have absolutely no sense of whether that's accurate because i. no longer have any idea of the use of calendars. Yes so. Pandemic Kate. How how have you been doing? Let let's give listeners a little bit of a sense of our mental state these days. Yeah I think I'm getting into the swing of it. When a couple of months ago. When we started talking about doing this episode, it was chaos here in the tiffany home. I had recently broken a mere a window to wine glasses. It was basically like I was just kind of crunching around like a floor covered in glass, being like I. Wonder if I'll ever see my friends or family. On to that was a dark time, but you know things are picking up in New York a little bit world to go to the beach crucial the allowed to look at each other outside. If not touch each other, so things are on the on the APP. Yeah, we've. We've seen each other, which is really great I think I've sort of settled into a routine of sorts I've done pandemic Bingo. I've done polygon workouts I've made various foods and baked I've done a puzzle I. I hate to admit out loud. I learned tiktok dances in Jello shots. My birthday that you made me. Yes, anyway, so we wanted to do this episode. Where of course why? Push that button? We are always curious about how dating is affected. What's changing in dating these days until we wanted to episode about how cove nineteen in the pandemic has forced us to make a ton of decisions about how he live work, relax etc, and how he date. Everyone's been staying at home as As you all know, and so that means they haven't been able to date and virtual dating has become a thing and we wanNA know. Is this the thing that's going to last forever? Or is this a pandemic phenomenon at? We're going to all forget ever happened. Repress it maybe mentioned it to our therapist once, and then that's it. Yes, so virgil dating I the first half of virtual dating is a concept that was already part of normal dating, just swiping on tinder or okay. Okay cupid or hinge is more of a squirrel type action, but you know whatever, and then the virtual component is that because we have been under stayed home orders, and because people been encouraged not to hang out in close proximity of people who don't live with them. You just don't do the whole thing where you meet up in a bar. Who would you can't do? You don't do the whole kissing thing. You don't do any of that. You just like facetime or zoom or Or skype. OR INSERT ALTERNATIVE, secure video conferencing software here to see if you have a connection, which all of that I think makes sense where kind of interested in what happens after the first time you facetime with somebody a win you. How do you build momentum? Can you build momentum? Is it actually dating and will there be like remnants of Virtual Day Day in postponed MC Romance. How effective is virtual dating really and I think broadly geographic location has become increasingly less important like. Like when you're doing remote work, it doesn't matter where you are could be doing an afforest or beach or in the city, and it really does not matter as long as I have an Internet connection, but you know with dating these dating APPs have kind of made. It seem maybe geographic location doesn't matter for that either, so we WANNA know how effective it really is to date from afar, and so here's here's some stats. We're just GONNA throw some numbers at everybody okay, cupid. Cupid said that sixty two percent increase in daters on okay, keep it going virtual dates in April compared to march, and it started including covid nineteen questions in people's profiles. They could talk about how they feel about. The pandemic harmony reported twenty seven percent increase in messages in April. Match said that daily swipes an all time high during its last earnings report, which was amid pandemic, so obviously, all of these stats are a little bit older, but they are from the peak of the. The pandemic, which is when we would expect most people to be using their APPs and video calls the most so presumably while the pandemic of wanes, and then comes back during the year will see people stay on the APPS, the probably change how much they're using them depending on the state of lockdown in their state or country, so we figured we should reach out to a dating expert. Ak Someone who works in the field and find out how things are going on the ground. toback in March way back when we talked to Pretty Josh, the VP of strategy at bumble about what they were saying with numbers during the pandemic and assure more people are using the APP. We saw an eighty four percent increase in video call that were glazed between users and what we are hearing from our users is that this is basically a way for them to connect safely because they can't actually. I Iro right now and because we interviewed her back in March I reached out to get a little bit more of updated numbers, so, but we'll actually saw sixty nine percent increase in video calls on bumbled during the week. Ending may first vs video calls during the week ending March thirteenth and the average video call slash phone call time on Bumble is twenty eight minutes, so people are really like doing the thing. They're doing the virtual dates. There were also some product changes to actually deal with the influx of people using the APP. Most significantly, a bumble adjusted their quote, unquote distance filtering for finding matches. Prior to this world, everyone was able to really interact with or meet people within one hundred mile radius, but now because you know you can't really anybody I are all and a lot of people are quarantining in communities that they aren't necessarily a part of because. Maybe they've back to their parents, houses or something, but we've tried to do give them the ability to connect with folks. Folks that might be a part of the community that eventually go back to, and they also added voice notes, which actually voice are kind of having a moment right now. Yeah, I remember earlier in the whole. Like. How do we date from inside our apartments conversation? A friend of mine was saying that she was going to start sending link. Sultry voice memos, which I honestly thought sounded really fun I actually trying out a little bit when I was longest dating during the pandemic, it wasn't actually sultry, but I did send a lot of voice memos. I love voice memos there on I think more intimate than a sexy pick because they go on for longer, plus we're all alone anyway. It's like you have time and space to listen to this voice. Message is on the move. R.I.P the move, okay, so bumble is not the only dating APP that's creating all these product features, others are of course doing it as well so tinder is letting everyone around the world swiped for free to find quarantine buddies. This is usually a paid feature, but they're making it free. They also want something global mode which completely gets rid of geographic filters entirely for free, so you could be mashing with people wherever vice versa hinges also letting people tap. Tap a button to say they're ready for video. Call date just kind of interesting, but I supposed to facilitate the conversations. You don't have to be awkward, but like. Are you open to video calls? If you're having a conversation with someone in the messages, then you just like hit a button being like I'm ready. Yeah, and it shows up at the bottom of your chat and it's like okay. I guess that means she's good to go where he is. I don't know about that. Okay, and then facebook still has dating thing. They launched their video call. Dating and tinder is also going to launch one on one video calls to so everyone is going all in on video calls virtual dating. The badges lack of location filters. Everything I will say that while I do support this in principle in practice as someone who has really bad webcam face I don't know that it will work for me. You really have to work angles and your lighting. You have to know what you're doing. Tinder I think for me the most interesting one primarily because it's I would assume the world's biggest dating APP and Nikolai are editor earn sheep at the verge. We've talked to the CEO of Tinder. Ellie Seidman for the verge other podcast, called verge cast, and got a little bit more of the behind the scenes details about why they invested in video. Also why they care about this phenomenon videos, not about video videos about live videos about the ability to get connection when we do it on tender, we actually the positive side is we bring to bear all of our experience with safety. You know the things that are completely off platform. We move most cases zero ability to do anything about. Outside of our purview, so there are a lot of benefits so really where he saying as the hat tinder is going to keep us safer on our video calls. Then maybe they would be if we were diseasing, facetime or Google do, or whatever else people use, and this applies to privacy too, so you can actually keep some of your personal information secret from your matches. You'll often want a certain amount of privacy as they're developing a relationship as relationships forming, and they don't know where it's going to end up. They don't know if it's GonNa last and so giving out your facetime. Id Giving your snap handle etc, like giving out all these other things may not be what you want. Allie was actually saying that before the pandemic video calling was on the list of features, they wanted to launch, but it was very low on that list, so the pandemic just set it up, but I'm curious, Kate. If you're on tinder, would you want to use video? Call feature with someone. You don't know yet if it became like a norm to do a quick screening video, call with someone before you took a. A whole night out of your week to meet up with them in person, I think I would be into that. I mean not on the dating APPs right now, but that seems useful to me. I can't even count the number of times that I've liked dragged my but to Bushwick order to Appiano in mid town, and then as soon as the person comes in and says hello. I know that I am. Am Not GonNa Vibe. which maybe sounds shallow, but I think it would be better for everyone if you can just like video chat, be and then not have to have that embarrassing like twenty minute date where one person is ready to book it exactly there's been not so many days, but definitely a couple dates and stand out in my mind where like Oh, if I had a video call to just. Just screen you preliminarily, we would have been good. We could have avoided this whole awkward thing where I've had to chug a glass of wine and then make up an excuse leave. Yeah, there are people who will expose themselves like real quick, and then you can just cut it off. Yeah, if you'RE GONNA make problematic comments, the problematic comics are gonNA come out in that video. Call one way or the other. So imagine that after the pandemic video calls Kinda like we're talking about might stick around as a screening system that just makes sense especially for women for safety to avoid ghosting all the things like video call cool board I'm really curious about is during the pandemic, if while we're stuck with digital dating, which text and voice and video, whether people are actually talking about more meaningful things in there by building a relationship, or if they're kind of just shooting the Shit, talking about being depressed pandemic like fireworks in Brooklyn, whatever versus actually trying to. Go a little deeper and pretty from bumbled told us that with people being stuck inside. They are having more meaningful conversations in the APP and bumble says that it knows this because they have an algorithm that apparently assesses conversation. We have proprietary algorithm that basically helps us understand what a meaningful conversation could look like, and that we can see has increased since the time of kind of bid everyone being quarantined in unlikely pudding, potentially more intent right behind the conversations that they're trying to have and so now we're seeing that about one in four conversations are turning into these meaningful. Meaningful conversations in meaningful chat for lack of a better word that I can only hypothesize are turning into good forms of relationships. However, folks are finding their I. Wish Pretty gave us more info because this is like really shocking to hear, but it's also not that surprising considering we give all these APPs lots of data about ourselves, even if it doesn't really seem like we are, so they can see what we're talking about, and can kind of analyze that information, but yet just suffice it to say these APPs know what you're doing. I would assume that they're probably talking about like. The number of messages people are exchanging or the length of those messages wedge could have been you know a temporary pandemic thing. People are just dumping their anxieties on each other. It could have been sexting. People were extremely warning at the beginning of quarantine. I don't know if we use that word on this show, but it's possible that the meaningful conversation was a was a blip. We don't know how long that's GonNa last in the online dating world. Yeah, like temporarily. People were vulnerable because. Because they had no other outlets except for like therapy and a few friends, but as we go back to potentially at least being able to go on dates outside I think people might go back to their their game playing ways, but because you know Kate, Ni- are not in the dating scene right now. We wanted to talk to a few daters who are on the ground, experiencing this and get their take on housing going for them, and whether virtual dating is here to stay. I, we talk to Catherine Smith writer and author of the memoir all the lives we ever lived seeking solace in Virginia Woolf. I also just finished. He's about corona. Virus Ding Ding loneliness singled on, so she truly knows about isolation and loneliness. Those are some some key themes and new from Rhode Island, but I actually live in Brooklyn most. Catherine got a taste of social distancing a few months before we did in America, I had matched with a guy named Leean earlier in the year in January and then he had actually begun to Hong Kong where he teaches at university because he was in Hong Kong. He was going through social distancing two months before I was, so he was the first person who introduced me to determine social distancing actually on Valentine's Day. And I know idea what he was talking about, and he was like Oh. Yeah, no, that's. When you don't see anyone and I was like. Oh, well, whatever because? This is a problem unique to China. Of course two weeks later, she was ordered to stay at home as well. She then noticed aside effective at home, dating the dreaded check in texts from Scummy X.'s D- and former flames, also noticing that all these other men from my past. We're kind of popping up. You people that I hadn't heard from in months or else people that I had just started dating back in Brooklyn who? Were at the cut of indeterminate place in our relationship, where it really wasn't clear what it was going to be, and it was just kind of put on on hold. I'm very disappointed in my exes. Unsurprisingly that they have not hit me up at all, a mole fended like. Don't you kind of reflect on a relationship when you're all alone and have no one else? Yeah, the two that I had were not very exciting was from somebody. I will never speak to again in my life, and another one was just from some Internet way I went out with three times, so they weren't like they didn't have the drama of Catherine's, but I do understand the impulse to reach out within your pre existing contacts rather than going onto the APP you know it's we're lonely. Lonely we're side. We want the familiar go something you already know even if you might get extremely harsh tax back, that's what I heard from. A lot of my friends who are dating to is that they were texting people who they hit either gone on one date with, and it fizzled who they meant to meet up with, or at least we're hooking up with just because it's a little bit easier than starting fresh like Benepe. covid kind of feels like like the silence and a game of musical chairs where all of a sudden the music stops nurse like. Oh, I guess I'm stuck with. A but I was kind of casually dating so as we were talking about before, so many people are working from home. Geography is becoming a lot less relevant in dating, so a lot of people are figuring. They might as well video chat with someone who lives nowhere near them in Catherine's case, Hong Kong I reached out to him and I'm lonely. And he wrote back hug with all these parentheses which I'd never seen before it the go, that's comforting. And that he was eventually like know we should do one of those weird face time for Steve Things and I think that's not something I would ever normally do realize that I was like sure. Yeah, let's do it. Another interesting consequence of the pandemic has been the slide into complete lack of fashion. Nobody that I know is getting dressed anymore. We all look like slobs. webcams aren't very flattering and Catherine. Knowing this decided. decided to have her date with Ian over the phone instead of on facetime, so that she would not have to try to put herself together for the video call, so we ended up just talking on the phone for three and a half hours, and it was really nice, and like a very strange way to get to someone, and he had this kind of a really amazing radio personality voice I can imagine that in a phone call that long. You have some pretty meaningful conversations, maybe even more so than you would in. An IRA date which don't tend last three and a half hours in my experience, so is social distancing making for better dates I mean. No it's definitely not feel like a real date like if you're both like say in a bar and you know have a couple of drinks or kind of just like warming up to each other in getting like all the impulses that are coming at you or the same impulses. You're seeing the same things in your, whereas like he's looking out at these beautiful hills of Hong, Kong enormous towers, and I'm like sitting on my Jack in the dark. According to Katherine. There's still something missing with this new form of dating like miss like touch. You know like like not necessarily. Bad but like just even this the fact that that's not an option felt very like a little bit of climax. As. We've said we live in a world of unknowns now calendars have no meaning. Don't know why we own them. It's horrible to think about the future. Dating was already so disorienting and alienating, and now it is worse. There's something about not knowing when this is going to end. That makes it feel I think a little bit daunting. You know like I think I think part of the excitement of going online and talking to someone. Is this like promise of possibly getting to see them and heading it off, and it feels to me like what's a little bit like what's the point? So Catherine kind of makes it sound like this whole experiment around virtual dating just is not working out that well, and that may be the whole effort is useless. She definitely have some issues, but she wouldn't go so far to say that it's useless. I think it's actually a very probably great way to get to know someone to me. A barrier feels like what happens next and the fact that like. How long can you sustain this kind of like endless talking when you don't really know like? Are you going to be able to meet up in a month? You an amenable to meet up like four months. You know just feel like indeterminately is really really hard to to maintain like an excitement. Okay, so the fact that Catherine is not willing to completely right. Virtual dating makes me think that we haven't totally gotten to the core here of whether virtual dame completely stick around, but at least makes me think aspects, if not most of it has lasting potential. Yeah, video chat were sold on video chatting I think yeah, and the numbers show that more people than ever using dating apps than before so clearly there's people out there who are trying the APPS for the first time. And I wanted to talk to someone who I knew was new to the dating APPs, and that person is my boyfriend's brother Max. Tinder and hinge dating stories have keeping me quite entertained I. Don't know I one hundred percent love it, but it's working on. It's okay I think I'm setting myself up for Post Corona virus, so think about Max is that he always hated on the dating APPs pre pandemic and refused to use them, so I was super surprised when suddenly he pivoted to downloading them as soon as the pandemic set in. One couldn't go out and like normally like how would meet. Someone is like out and about bar meeting with friends or whatnot or just through mutual friends now obviously really can't go out much and socialize now like Anita socialized. And for a Newbie. He's been very successful. He chatted with two women, both of whom he's gone on facetime dates with and the first one went really well until she pulled the ultimate dating sin. We had another one that up and she'll exam before to Chila. So she actually goes to me on our second day, so it's kind of a corona red flag for me. Actually this happened to another friend of mine, too. Now that I'm thinking about this someone else I know got ghosted during the pandemic and I can't believe it. How do you ghost during a pandemic when we are all under no illusions that you have nothing else going on also kind of. Of Rude at a time, where everyone's really nervous about people getting sick, you know just polite. I, no longer feel like talking to you. I guess that's not polite. Polite version of that then no one has to worry that you have become ill communicable virus, but going going back to Max. Max is second woman. He went on a date with actually. My have some potential girl is actually pretty awesome. We talked so I could easily for a few weeks after back. You're drinking wine hanging out with talking. We're facetime and we got to know each other pretty well. We're talking about like maybe cooking together. She loves cooking. She seems like a really good based off of the food that you showed me I was actually cooking the other night. Generally, he's feeling pretty good about this woman, but their relationship has reached a standstill. After some time ago, we like China disconnected just because there's no physical connection there. It was just because you can't see her mother. After boy colleague Worsens Yours is going. The conversation was meaningful enough to make him want to keep talking to her, but it's still missing that essential physical aspect talking like for weeks on end in his like we're really to know one another like I, just feel. Feel like I. Don't know I like I feel like if there's no like actual physical connection or like being able to be with another person I just feel like it's limiting kind of doesn't feel one hundred percent real I also want to take away from it will be can have them person who makes sense. You know Max sound like the virtual dating situation in the dating APPs. It's just. Just kind of a abandoned over the situation like he's fine, he's doing it. He's making it work for him, but this is just a placeholder. He is ready to get back to imprison dating I mean the first weekend that Russia's open. I'm going to a restaurant. I'm sitting outside like he's ready to go back and social. He's ready so I. Think you know this doesn't speak too highly virtual. Virtual dating sticking around specifically for people who have never been interested in dating online before it seems like he doesn't want to go anymore facetime dates, but he is maybe like comfortable with tinder now as a concept. Yeah, I think he seeing the potential of meeting a bunch of people like it. Broaden your horizons as far as how many people you can meet in a day is unparalleled. So with both Catherine Amax. They are kind of in this spot of like not really knowing what the future is going to hold if they're going to be interested in continuing virtual dating. But, that isn't to say that people haven't successfully managed dating from afar by virtual dating and people who do long distance relationships have had to make the Internet work for them for a very long time way before the pandemic hit, so we want to talk to someone who has been in that situation for some time to see how the pandemic is affecting them. They've been using these tools for a really long time, so we want to know what they tell us about the future of virtual dating. So, we chatted with a man named Matt who's partner lives in another country and was already in a long distance relationship before the pandemic started my name's Matt. Prayed now I am living at my childhood home in New Jersey. He and his partner Mike Who Lives in Canada are a true tinder, love story, but the pandemic is throwing off their plans I met my partner Mike four years ago now when I was on a business trip in Montreal and we met on Tinder at the time. We're now working on visa application, and that requires us to live in separate countries, so we're pretty used long distance at this point we have gotten into the groove of it and understand each other's boundaries and communication. Feeling what both Maxon Catherine kind of talked about feeling this no end in sight type of mindset in the past we've been able to visit each other once a month or so, and that's really been like what's rooted us to the relationship. I guess you know obviously now that the borders closed. That's changed so since then we've kind of had to reckon. Reckon with knowing when we'll see each other again. Which is something that we've never really had to deal with before? Matt and Mike have figured out ways to stay in touch normally, but now that they can't see each other in person at all the need to keep up. Communication is even more urgent. It's honestly impressive. Different platforms and chat format sleeping using. One of the things we do is. We Watch TV together. That's always been a way that we relax and recently we've been really into the real housewives. It's just such a good way for us like. At the end of the night. Ultimately, we usually end up using. FACEBOOK MESSENGER call or facetime? We also play animal crossing together now or play Mario Kart together and things like that where you know the online play. It makes it feel like for closer, and then we try to like throughout the day. Keep that call going as much as we can, I'll just you know. Prop my phone up against the wall on writing or on drinking my coffee in writing and just trying to keep the the connection open so still we're seeing technology as dating enabler, but that only seems to. To be a temporary replacement I it's a buffer for one. You can eventually be together in person and in the end. Unfortunately, Kate real housewives is not a replacement for her real hug. Physical intimacy doesn't translate very well. That's also something that we've had to deal with for a long time, but always with that knowledge that next month will see each other again. Next month we can land same badge, or you know so I think that probably is what translates least well for us is how much you want to be able to give somebody hug right now. They're also real life gestures and activities that are genuinely romantic, but don't really work when you adapt them into a digital context, things like having a candlelight dinner or just things where you would usually put some extra effort into a date can feel cheesy when you're on the Internet because it's like. Why am I lighting these candles in my bedroom? Year, so I think a lot of what I've come to realize is like you kind of have to change your expectations. A little bit of what is romantic or Now feels somewhat romantic to just sit down and watch the real housewives of beverly hills whereas like cooking, same dinner and lighting a few candles can feel cheesy, or it doesn't translate as well. Yeah, and the pandemic, just a huge hurdle for them, because more than anything else going through. Hopefully, what's a once in a lifetime event would be really nice to do with a human being by your side, the feeling but wall this absolutely ludicrous thing is happening in the world. I can't be with him for it like we can't really go through a together. That's the part that bothers me. More is a present moment and not being able to help each other through it as much as we'd like to. Obviously we love that and his partner and wish them the best. They seem to be working really hard to keep their relationship steady, and we have no doubt that they'll make it through the pandemic. Feel optimistic in that. We both seem to be in a similar place with it. Which is uncomfortable? Not Okay with at all, but I think that starting the relationship long distance kind of gave us a little more clarity on that fact that like. The next time we do see each other whenever that is the way we feel about each other's going to change. It seems like the big takeaway. Here is one that originally when dating APPs came out, it was kind of positioned as like Oh. This is how you're going to meet. People like this is the new way to make introductions no longer. Do you have to go up to someone at a bar? Hope for the best, but this pandemic situation virtual dating sorta suggests to me that more than that you. You. Can you facilitate like you can get through the first couple dates worth of material online, and you're probably doing okay, but it's when you get to that fourth date where you're like okay, we're ready for that physical physical connection. Probably yeah, I think we kind of decided. Correct me if if you feel differently, but is that this isn't really going to completely overhaul like the dating experience, but. But it is maybe shifting somewhat our ideas about which parts of the dating process can happen online in which parts can't exactly now since we did some of these interviews a while ago, we wanted to give you all a update on our guests so Katherine says that she is still single, although Ian broke up with her over taxed because of the Peace Shiro, which I guess just speaks to. To the fact that the pandemic is making it awkward to break up with people, even if you've never met them in person and people still feel they can do that overtaxed and then as far as Matt and Max I, think the pandemic and their use of virtual dating really was just a placeholder, because as soon as they had the opportunity to meet up with people in person they did. Did so matt was able to finally crossed the border into Canada June to see his partner and he's with him. Now and Max went on a date first thing with one of the women. He was speaking to the Goester actually, and it seems to have gone fine, so I think what we're seeing here is just that virtual dating has some merit, but clearly in person is preferable right, it seems. Seems like the features we really like and CONC- sticking around is definitely. The video calls screeners, which again is kind of that first couple dates preliminary info slash just that initial. Are you even someone i WanNa talk to in person screener. I should mention that in the course of thinking about this episode I briefly became obsessed with this Frederick community called never mats, which is for people who are. Are In Internet, only relationships, which some of them are extremely sweet. They're just like teenagers who flirt in minecraft for months and months on end, so we shouldn't say that online dating doesn't work for anybody. Because some people do find it really romantic for sure and I spoke to the tinder CEO. He seemed to suggest that the younger generation like Gen Z. are the ones who could pull off. Off Virtual dating more than millennials Gen Z., the eighteen nineteen year olds who arrive on Tinge today they've grown up with the social internet. They've had in their life from a very young age. So when they arrived, they already hung out in digital environments. It might have been four night right. That could have been the place where they were hanging out with their friends, so the idea of like. And developing a relationship and developing and connection, letting it unfold in a digital environment is not a new idea, but as far as whether geography matters allow. These dating APPS are starting to get rid of their geographic filters. On one hand I do think that makes some sense because you can have things in common people around the world and find valuable things. In everybody, but at the same I'm like well, you're gonNA have to overcome some hurdles. If you can't see each other in person like eventually, you're going to be like. Oh, we want him. Probably meet up and see each other in person so I, don't know how long those filters and the global mode for Tenders Really GonNa be appealing right. Is it like a? A New York right now. People are still not taking the subway so I probably wouldn't. If I were on, the APPS agree to go on a date with someone who lived in a different borough. I would really like. Keep my circle tight right, but I would maybe be willing to meet up with someone in person at this point. Yeah, same here, totally same. I guess the closest ow. I didn't WanNa pull again from that tinder CEO interview because I really wanted to ask him. Whether Technology was advanced enough to replace the IRA experience, dating and kind of get his take, so this is what he had to say. I think it is varies for for everyone. But you know our view, my view personally, but our view more broadly as as a team at tinder is that there is a limitation. There is only so far you can go. That were physical beings right, and that's important, and that's wonderful, and that's been true for you know. Millennium Millennium Millennium is not going to change because of Covid is not going to change. Is Not. GonNa Change. There's a very important place to play for hanging out virtually, but I think there's a very important place to play for the physical world, and will have a better sense in in a year's time of how this shakes out. What percentages are what but I'm I'm deathly betting on the physical world, being very important and here's Day. So. That's it that is the one off bonus episode of. Why'd you push that button? I hope we are back soon. Kate anything else. You want to plug here. You've been doing a lot of reporting work. Yeah, we've neglected to mention this topic episode, but. I work at the Atlantic now. And this is a lot of the type of thing I've been covering. They're just how people are using the Internet to cope with the strange feelings of the pandemic, so you can give me a google if you wanted. Find my new home. And everyone can follow me on instagram. Asha Carmen I hope I hope one day we get to come back with another season. That would be really cool, but we have no news for you on that front, so don't ask any more questions about that of you all right? That's it for US seawall later I.