#1770 How Amy Porterfield does marketing without communicating like a marketer
Hey, there, freedom, fighters names, Andrew Warner, and the founder of mixer interview entrepreneurs about how they built their businesses for an audience of entrepreneurs today. I'm recording live a series of interviews with entrepreneurs about how do online marketing and it happened because I had this realization that. I interviewed people who are great at marketing about how they built their businesses and I never took the time to probe and understand how they how they grew it by letting people know what they did by buying ads seduced by writing content to do it by messing their current people. And, and it's something that I wanna learn, and I the person who, especially felt bad about was the was Brian dice that I pressed him a lot for how he built his company and his part of this, like online marketers who are taking advantage of people and stuff like that. He knew those questions were coming up. We had brunch where he had brought them up. So it wasn't like thrown by them are upset about them. But I was I missed an opportunity to really learn how he did it. And so I'm bringing entrepreneurs onto ask them about this. The one person who I did do a job of finding out about her marketing was the woman, you're about to get to know. Now, Amy Porterfield four five years ago, I was trying to improve my online membership site, and so I love how Amy. Things. Everything she does feels like she's really good at marketing in the way that she communicates not like a marketer. But like someone who is just talking to a friend who happens. She just happens to be good at buying ads because she spent some time on. She happens to be good at sending out Immelt. She happens to be good, podcasting. And so you wanna find out how she did it. So does approachability to but also authentic city to the I wanna learn, and I wanna get good outs. My feeling is that when it comes to marketing, I just want to press my foot on the gas and just accepted. It has to be bad at times, but elite to growth in business, or you suck it up and take it, but it doesn't have to be that way. He doesn't do it that way, and I want to learn from her. So EMMY Porterfield according to the top of her website, which he listed. I'm just gonna read the whole thing. She teaches business owners educators, entrepreneurs, the profitable action steps for building a highly engaged Email list, creating online training courses, and using online marketing strategies to sell with ease gonna find out how she had so much does those. But how she promotes the ones that she does thanks to nominal sponsors of I will help you hire great developers designers. It's called top towel and the. Second will help you do me host or website. It's called hostgator. I'll tell you about those later. Aiming tabby. Here we will, thanks for having the honor to be here. You actually using your mic. I should have asked you before. But it sounds a little different. Can you tap your mic? You are. You are using your might maybe maybe a little closer. Yeah. Okay. It we got your little bit nervous about doing the center Twi. You make me to be quite honest, because you ask questions, sometimes that I know you wanna go deeper and I know you wanna get to the root of it, and I just I have all the answers you want, but bunny enough, you and I were at a lunch about a year or so ago. And we were all talking around the table. You asked my integrator like a project manager khloe question. And we still joke about how intense the question was, how she was like a deer in the headlights. Now I don't even remember the question, but she's like, oh, you're talking to Andrew good luck today. I wonder what that was what actually I was going to reach out to Chloe looked up on Lincoln had a sense of how to contact her. And then I said, you know what? That's a step too far for this. I know where I wanna go with it. But I do that a lot because I wanna really like MAC. I don't know. I'm just naturally curious thing here, a great interviewer. So I'd love it. And I'm nervous about it. But let's just do it. Your website says that you are seven figures, can you be open about what the revenue is right now Amy, yes? So so far this year, we're at about five million in revenue for this year. Yes. Selling what what's the courses? Digital course academy is a course where his so meta it I teach how to create a digital course and had a launch that digital course with webinars using live launching strategies. And so it's everything nuts and bolts step-by-step how to do it. So that's my big signage course. At the nine also have an evergreen course, meaning it's an automated webinar that runs every single day. And that's list builders lab in. That's where I teach how to build your Email list. And I start with that one that one's three ninety seven so it's cheaper. Program than my bigger one, which is two thousand dollars. And it's a great place to start the conversation. Anybody who wants to grow business online, typically needs to have an Email list, and I can't do a good job of teaching the big strategies. If you don't start with that list on nation. So that's why I have that program to start and how do people find out about you? What's like the, the first step that a stranger would go through to know about Amy Porterfield? It's either you see an ad on Facebook, Instagram about my list building. Course or new CNN had about my podcast or someone recommended my podcast. So usually my evergreen webinar or my podcast is high. You get into my world until you're promoting podcast. I how do you know if that works if people even listen to Dave from proof, and I were just talking about how tough it is to promote podcasts. So I agree. I do think it's tough to promote a podcast. I think I have a lot of word of mouth recommendations from people out there. My has definitely a huge list builder for me. We survey people. Say how'd you hear about being, they say, so and so recommended your podcast? So definitely is a feeder for me, my favorite episodes of your podcast or were you in someone on your team, talk about what you did in just like we're sitting on the couch vibe, I love that. You say that I need to do more of those, those are the really fun ones, and I love to pull the curtain back and share what we've done inside the business. So, yeah. Those, those are the good ones if you do five billion in revenue, how much of that is profit in your type of business. So a battle we about sixty percent. So our expenses are around forty percent. Wow. Until met is really powerful. It is. Yeah, we something that we really focus on closely. So we are very, we don't actually have budgets for everything we do. However, one of my specialties is simplifying the business in doing what works over and over again. So if we did a launch in January, which is what we did we've done launches for seven years now we know how to do launch. As we know pretty much what we wanna spend in where we're spending it. So we try to stay within that same kind of recipe each time we launched. So we are goal is always no more than forty percent expenses. And so one of things that I told you before we started is, we didn't send out, I think a single Email for mystery all of twenty eighteen to me about that. Why didn't you? I couldn't sit down and write it. I couldn't find someone who could do even first draft. In capture my voice, it was so painful, that I said, I'm gonna give up on it. I'm going to spend more time finding guest talking to guests getting to know them. And one of the things that Megan who helped put today together actually didn't help she did it. She kept sending me your e mails and saying, look, you could send out an Email for every episode because you do that, right? Any for every episode you sent out an Email and feels it feels I don't know how to express it. It just feels if feels good feels right? How do you what's your process of creating an Email for let's say podcast? Great question, because it is, it's a big deal in our business. We, this is definitely how we engage our existing Email list, how we have a relationship with them. So number one, I have a copywriter, and I couldn't tell you off the top of my head. How much we pay her? She's on a retainer. She does a few different things but she's expensive. So we definitely invest in a copywriter and we batch, so we do six time. So I do six podcasts at a time she writes, six emails at a time, like everything we do. We try to batch and sixes in a lot, but it's a lot for me. A mother of really quick content creator so six works. And so. She'll sit down and show. Right. Those six emails and one, she's just really good in. She's worth every penny. But to we've officer, and so when I have an idea I sent her quick box and say, hey, when you write the Email for such and such episode tell you quick story. I don't always do that. But I tried to do that when something pops into my head, so she's hearing for me. She has a connection to me. And because I've been at this for tenure she could dig into the archive, she could see tons of stuff I bend, and she's taking the time to really get to know my voice, and so having a I could never sit down and write all those emails, either. So I get it until you're thinking of story and then recording it for her. The reason news vox is is that would call box, sir. Boxer is because it's audio base, and you could just record Senate over. Yes. In doing that, too. I actually been using the tool called auditor, and just record into it, and autumn transcribes it. So the person can go and use data the first drafts for whatever becomes their, their next version. I just can't think of stories and things to bring out to engage in the conversation by the time this is over. I'm not going to remember what was most, and I don't always either, so she there has to ask me or she has to come up with some kind of thing that makes. Sense. Like she's gonna have to be creative. Okay. And so that's the way that you work for most of your content mostly Email where you'll record something and say, this is what special. Here's what what I remember and she'll go and do. And she'll write the first draft. And then or if you don't have that she'll pick up by going through your episode. He asses. That's what usually happens to listen to the episode and she'll pick something out of that may be expand on it and have a little fun with each tries to add a little entertainment into each Email. But most of the time I'm not giving her stories I used to be so appalled, by the idea that someone else was ghost writing someone else's content because it's their voice, and then I read a book about Johnny Carson getting into Hollywood and being shocked himself, that all the comedy that his favorite comedians were were putting out there on television was actually written for them and eventually, you know, sharpened by them. And then he eventually understood it. And he became this guy lead, like a machine of writers. Herreid. His stuff. And I said it's hard to get over that hump I two felt a little uncomfortable. It's funny. I did a podcast episode, and I think it was called ten things I, I don't want you to know or ten things I feel embarrassed about, and one of them was, I don't always write my own copy, and I definitely don't write my own emails, and then I talked about why that helps and why I do it. So I get you, I felt the same way, but I think this is because the alternative is you're not sending emails and I think you're missing a huge opportunity when you're not emailing your list every single week. If you're out great podcast episodes, and so, for you, it's an add on Instagram Facebook ends up on a landing page, that might promote the podcast and get people to go subscribe to it. Yes, we just started podcast ads what we did is, we looked at some of the people we really admire, and we can go on Facebook and see which adds people are running. And we noticed a lot of the top odd casts are running a lot of that. And so we thought, well, we're going to do some more Madhi how it goes. Goes now I also do a lot of list building to my podcast. So a lot of the episodes, not most recently, but in the hundreds and late hundreds have a lot of freebies. And so we tend to pick those episodes so we can get some list building going as well. You know what I nodded my head, and I said, yes, I do know that you can see what other people are buying what type of other people I didn't know that where do you go to see what other people crying, I newly were gonna ask me that Anna carry member. How you do it. But it literally is something kind of new. And so I could find out and send it to you for sure. Or you out me I could Tex team right now and went is that how do you Abbott? Love to know what is not right now, your go ahead and. Oh, look at this Jerry saying, go to the business patients on info and adds. I'm going to do that right now. I'm gonna go good. Good this going to say. I guess this is part of Facebook's desire to be more open. Yes, on Amy wait. No, this is the personal page. You and I are friends on Facebook. So I got that it's the one that has three million people on it, right? Three million fans is no. That is not me. Go to go to Tim Ferriss, I want you to see that. So he buys a bunch of ads and what I noticed with him as he buys adds to his checklist, or something else that then get someone on the list and then he promotes it. So, yes. So a lot of those Janika Chern is a really great job of podcast ads as well. Those are the people that we looked up with ho they're doing great staff. If you go to mine, if you don't see pipe cast ads might be because right now we're promoting something. So we might have caused them during this week. But typically, we just are running base book at cast Oga. Amy that's fantastic. Jeremy, thanks for pointing out. Yeah. I see all of Tim Ferriss stuff. So he's got his not to do list with an ice image. He's got a photo of himself saying that he learned from a bunch of interviewees. And he has a photo of himself standing next to him. I mean to Tony Robbins etcetera. Yeah staff. He does a great job with five cast ads. Do any kind of Mark. Eating. That's not. That's not add based that is still measurable. So let me think we are so heavy on Facebook and Instagram ads. We really don't. I mean, we we use Instagram. So here's the deal. We use Instagram for Instagram's stories pretty heavily. So I finally got past the fear of showing my face on video. I've done it for years, but I've always hated it. And then I thought this is ridiculous, like, let's just stop this, and I had a lot of insecurities about my way. How I looked and all that. And so I thought let's just fix that get healthy. Let's move past this 'cause I am all business. I am obsessed with my business. So if my insecurities are holding me back, that bothers me. And so anyway, I just got past a lot of these fears that I've been grappling with for years, and years and started to do more video. So I do Instagram is more jump on Facebook live more. Just not acts or anything just to connect, I have seen a huge shift in the engagement, Mike immunity and the conversations in the DM's just for showing up regularly. So that's a little bit of a very big actually soft marketing strategy. But it works for me. I didn't see do that. And so this is on. I'm not following you on Instagram. And so you being personal there. Are you just talking about your day you are? I'm doing a little bit about now. I'm not the type of person that will take you into my kitchen and have you with me at all day, every day and all my walks with my husband. I don't do a lot of that, but do another that you get to come into my world for sure. So and then I'm constantly talking about marketing, but here's another thing that's changed for me over the last year my businesses exploded over the last year. And I think one of the reasons why is high finally realized that I'm a strategy, girl. I teach step by step. I get in the weeds. I talk marketing all this time, but one thing that I realize, if I don't talk about the mindset that this shifts that need to be made the fear that the concern the worry all of that, if I don't address that they're never going to have the big impact that they could. With the strategies instead I'm Tiki. So I've infused, a lot of mind, said, obstacles in blocks in shifts that need to be made. I've started to talk about that now I'm Tony Robbins. But it does help that I address it, and I always address it as let's talk about the challenge. I've had maybe you've had this as well. So it's all has to come from places sincerity. Your got it. That makes sense. Let me come back in a moment to talk about my first monster. And then I'm gonna come back and understand. How do you know what fears they have? Okay. I keep hearing survey your audience all the time, but they're not telling you, your fears I have one thing, that's worked for me. I wanna know what's worked for you. I do a quick adver top Cal. If you're out there and you're looking hire developers go to top towel dot com slash mixer. G they're gonna get you. The best of the best developers just talking to someone who is in the information getting space. Dave now runs a site called proof. It's a software tool. He's not a developer himself. He needed great developers. He went to top towel. He hired from top talent, and it was more of like a temporary thing. And the best of the best to get my team up and running the best of the. To give a skill that we don't have ourselves. And that's how he keeps improving software. If you're out there listening, frankly, EMMY if you're here listening, and you want higher developer consider going top cow. When you go to top towel dot com slash misery. The first thing they'll do is not get you hired or hire someone for you. It's look at you wanna call with someone you tell them what you're looking for. And if they've got that person they can get you started pretty quickly, go. Top towel dot com slash mixture. You'll get eighty hours of top cow developer credit, when you pay your first eighty hours in addition to a no risk Trump period of up to I dunno. Go to top dot com slash mixture. G weeks just don't want to promote the free trial and risk free. If you need developer, you're gonna love him. You shouldn't do it for that top dot com slash mixture G to what has worked for you for understanding people's fear. So one of the things we do on our webinars registration page for side. Got this free webinar labout listening, how to kick start your list building when someone registers webinar on the very next page. Thank you page, we have a quick little survey. So we do survey. Not the only hang fears, and we ask, so when it comes to list building, what is your biggest challenge? We have radio buttons in that we have a, where they can fill it in, but it's things like the technology not enough time not know where to start like we listen to, to narrow it down. And then we take we do the survey. So a few things one we get a lot of responses from that because they just registered, they're more apt to fill out that survey in just a little marketing side note, whenever they ate Unser in terms of a day. They say it's technology in the post webinar Email sequence. We will address their biggest challenge, personally will say, you let us know technology. Let's talk about that. So we use that information that has been a huge performing what they've told me there. Another thing is that I have something called the insiders club. It's Facebook group, only for my students alumni, that have gone through my programs and once a month. I'm live in that Facebook group in they to answer, ask questions. Full. Our have been doing this for over two years. Now, if you read between the lines of their questions, you will definitely see their fears. And typically, would I between the lines is that I don't have all the answers. I'm looking at what everybody else is doing and I do not compare so behind. I'm too old like it is very obvious. But it's been something that I've had to perfect in terms of meat learning how to read between the lines in it's been incredibly effective juvenile sample that I know that this is putting you on the spot. But because people don't explicitly say, I'm too old. They feel something else, and express it in a different way. So. Yeah, let me think about what just recently came up about someone. Oh, there was this guy talking about how he's been in one industry for his whole life. And now he's in his sixties and he wants to branch out into something new, and it was asking about where does he start there. But there were all these. Really weird questions that he shouldn't even be worrying about about what he was asking and what I said was you're worrying about all this stuff because you're deeper worry that you're too late in the game. You don't have all the answers because you started too late. 'cause you shared with me that you've known something else, your whole life. And so that's when I start that conversation right away, he writes. Yep. You're right. United it. So it was kind of like these questions are really end. You're asking all the wrong reasons are that's, that's something that we need to do. I just actually highlighted for myself here the time stamp with when you said what they were what they told me so that I can go back to my team and an implement what you sit around there. And here's what I got from you. When somebody registered for webinar the clearly coming in with a need big enough, that they're willing to put their contact information and show up at a certain time, right? We need the very next page needs. Do you do what you say what? Actually, what I was thinking of tell me what you think it is. What are you looking to get out of this or what's the problem you're looking to solve today? What's a win for you? Look at the end of this, Ryan, like what's a win. I never used that question. But what does the wind look like you asked me that when we first got on here and it's almost jarring like oh I could tell you what I want love it. So that's a great question. But I do think the radio buttons of giving them since suggestions. And then, keeping one open-ended is helpful so that you can it just it allows the process to be easier for them. And then your Email software will based on what they said, fill in the blanks in the Email, and make sure that, yes, we will get to technology. Yes, we use fusion soft, and we use a tagging system on that survey in order to let us know what kind of Email they need to get during the funnel. I think actually you one point told me that there was an issue with infusion soft, but you didn't mention infusion soft and then it was another guest Tim Sykes who is listening to you. With me, who said which is miss it. What you what she didn't wanna tell you. It was infusion soft and that's the problem. I keep having this issue with them. There's just so tough to deal with been tough. Definitely. And I will tell you for all of our funnels we use infusion soft for all of our automative vinyls, we use infusion software. We also use plus this, you know, plus, yes, yeah. So we typically in anything we do there's some feature of plus this, that's involved. We do too in that as another layer of complexity. It'd be test. You have to then go to the third party software to get a test. It's so true. And I don't wanna go off tangent. But I'll tell you challenge. We're having in our business something that's like, really near dear to my heart that I wanna figure out, and that is that we teach how to do webinars in my digital course academy program, so it's inexpensive program. I wanna to make sure I give them everything I can't make it as easy as possible. But putting together a webinar alive, webinar with your Email service provider with any extra tools you need to do. With zoom integration back end timing Email marketing, all of it. I can't get any simpler than the technology. And so, my students are saying this is too many steps, it's too much, I'm alone. And I wear that on my soul. Like, oh, my gosh. I wanna make this easier. But our team has been tried to clean it up because we have integration died for them. But at the end of the day, it is a lot of steps at the end of the day. Marketing is not always easy. And if you really wanna dial things in, you've got to piece together some tools there is no one tool that is going to be our savior. And I wish there was, but it's something that we've been dealing with. We wanna make it easier. But it's not always easy. It's kinda complicated. Time for your team. They need the steps to do this. Right. The idea that we're just gonna put click funnels, click funnels will handle, the whole thing, people show up or webinar jam and they'll do it. It's it doesn't work does not work that way. And I guess I just want to be really honest with my audience and. I'm hoping that creates a bigger connection with them saying guys, I'm making simple as I can't for you. And it's not a one click thing and it's all getting done. So don't let anyone tell you it is. Yeah. You know what I'm glad to hear you say that because when I went to find your name one of things that I found was note, your name in my in my Evernote I found a note that I had about the software that used for your webinars, and I saved it and I never went to test it out. And I said, oh, that would have saved me so much time that would have done everything for me. Because it's great. No. There is a set of steps. Yes, always definitely, and it takes time and it takes a lot of tweaking. So I need to do more tweaking this live event, one thing that I was that I was thinking was, oh, if I were to reach out the Brian Harris. He's got some kind of tool that helps when someone registered for something incursions them to tell their friends and then rewards when they do, and he would have put it on for us because he's got like a services component business. And I didn't there's always another thing like that. What's your process for making sure that you do keep iterating and improve? So you're right. There's always other stuff that we can do. And to be quite honest. There is a lot that I want to do that. I don't do. And here's the secret for me. I have really small team. They're six full-time people on my team. But I have one person on my team that her job is to tell me now. And it's it's and I don't love it. But we use a system called US and EOS is from the book rocket fuel the book traction, and with EOS you have a visionary, which is me the owner of the company in an integrator, which is khloe, who basically she make sure that whatever we say, we're going to do it gets done. And so when I come to the table and say will Brian Scott this, cool tool that you the end of it, and you can do X, Y Z, if we are maxed out, she will have to say, okay, we can do that. That means we're not gonna do this. And so it's like I wanna be a kid in a candy store, but I can't imagine what I met by. We keep things. Simple industry mind this possible in the business. And if you look, we do a whole less than most people, but we do, well, revenue, wise and expense wise, because we don't actually have a lot of those bells and whistles. So here's what we do for an event like this. What things I've learned is create a checklist. So the right and we just we use base camp because it keeps things simple and quiet. And so we'll have a checklist of the things that we did to put this together will copy that next time we wanna do things actually before we do will make changes to it. So if I say, I wish we would have done this viral thing that Brian Harissa, the Brian Harris has I would go and write a note. And that main checklist says next time here's a suggestion for improving. Next time somebody else should be proofing the promotion material little bit better. Because we made a mistake with, with rand fish post. And the next time we go in and say, okay of all these things, what would just things that felt like fires last time. But aren't important, what's critical? If it's critical. Let's at one checklist item or two checklist. What do you think that you and I could have marketing babies together? I mean, we're just really very similar in that sense. We do almost the exact same thing. But one thing that when I work for Johnny Robbins, one of the things I loved about a disciplined, he had with, he would get off stage and I was in a position that I was working on creative content. So as always there, he'd get off stage. I'd be right there, and he would say, let's debrief before he went p before he took the water for let's debrief. And so he looked to me in the team. And say what do you think worked, what didn't work, and then he would download in everything he thought about that segment on stage or that day, basically was end of day kind of thing. And so I took that into my own business and well launch is going on. Have one Google off where everybody in the moment goes to the Google doc just jot down a note. They don't wanna forget, this work great. This didn't work great. This was weird, whatever and different sections. Whether it be the webinar, the emails, the social whatever, and then we compile it all at the end of the launch were done. We're not trying to remember anything. It's already in there in one percent of the team takes that turns it into a Keno and reports to us what worked what didn't work, what we're going to change, and we record that so we could actually go back to it. If we want this is something new, we started in January, but it's very fills very that nothing's going to be forgotten, and I love the any dad when discipline that you said, which is okay, then you look over everything they, what really feels necessary to do again, or to keep we can't do it all I was talking to Marie Forleo the other day, she's going on launch September October. And she said we did a whiteboard everything I wanna do everything that wants to do for a book lunch. Then we went back crossed out the majority of it because we can't do all of it. And I think the discipline of crossing out the majority is what probably most people don't do. Yeah, I hard time with crossing things out because I want to do so much gossip much energy. I went on yesterday. It was going to be a half marathon. I said to my wife Livia I think I've done enough half. Marathons I should up at. She goes. Yeah, you should. So I went for a run. I said, let's go to fifteen miles I got fifteen I said, Hodgson, other one mile as wide, you drink that whole Gatorade it has one hundred sixty calories in it over that of and before I knew I had to stop before dinnertime. Are you about this is this under percents can tell that will never happen to me that I can run that much that is insane? That is insane. I do that on a regular basis. And part of it is, this need to like it's not approved anyone that I'm a superman. I didn't think I would tell anyone except for Libya, but it's to just take on more, and you don't feel that you don't have this need to just take on more because you can't sit still. I want to I genuinely want to, but I've seen what it will do to my team. I've seen Bernau on my team. And I also have a husband, that's a firefighter who is not in this world. And he'll say, I haven't seen you for five days, so I have to remember the stuff that's not related to work, and I have to find I don't believe in total balance. But I have to remember there's other things that I have focus on. So I guess that's why it stops. But I do have that desire, that I do wanna do more for sure. Why are webinars working for you? When I keep hearing that they're not working so much anymore. So I you know, I hear that they're not working to, and then at the literally, and I am not this is not just a plug. I see so many of my students talking about their successes with webinars. And here's what I think is important. One is that some people do webinar once or twice may think it didn't work whereas I have my students do four five. Webinars during launch because it takes more than one or two to make it work. I also believe that if you focus more on what the product is in your messaging that webinars going to convert better. So learning how to talk about your product learning how to do webinars that Knicks people walk away. So I had this motto when you get on a webinar fine you walk away, no matter if you buy or not billing excited inspired driven to take action, no matter if you buy or not, and I say this motto every time before I go on a webinar I teach my students to do the same. So if your web are. Gives more than you ask for I do believe that is a recipe for success. So I, I can't even fathom people saying webinars don't work. It's not true. Well, I thought that people were just burned down on it. They want everything right now. And you know what I think that one of my issues with webinars, and in general, this is one of my issues. I don't do the excited and inspired or even driven. I, I'll maybe driven, but it's more like. I got some information I need to get to you. And if I'm doing inspiration I feel in the back of my head that almost like these this is like my own negative chatter. I am then becoming like these empty Instagram, people who are doing nothing but posting quotes try to motivate you and there's no substance to it, and that's my own my own issue. Let's like in that we never be you for small. You don't even have that in your DNA, not to offer immense value. And I always I see that this is the thing you and I are in the same in that inspiring doesn't necessarily come natural to me. But I realized if at the end that webinar, if I taught them something they could do, but they don't believe that this concept is very doable. They will take action. So I had to start weaving in this idea of what it looks like to make this doable for that, so that motivation inspiration, part is essential in any webinar and you Aurora or find a way to do that. Because if I wanted to give it another tip, I would just hunt down the tip that worked. Best for people and then include that I'm looking for something that inspires people. I don't know how to okay. So let me tell you Stu McLaren. Taught me this is learned one hundred percent from him. I strip out the testimonials and my webinar and I put in the stories, and I tell stories of other people and what they've done. But I really focus on where they started in the struggles. They had and the stories are, what inspire and motivate and make people think it's doable. So we have so we weren't mission this year and all we care about giddy. Those stories from people, we've never done a good job of this now, we've got Ethan. So I was doing a webinar with Stu are doing a podcast episode was Stu couple of weeks ago when he came to my house, and we sat in my studio, and I was gonna ask him ten questions about building a membership site. So we sat down and I had my ten questions in front of me like you totally prepared ready to go. And I look over at his notebook in all he has is names of like. Fifty people names in a little note next to every name he was prepared to answer my questions with stories of karma. Donna that, right. I don't have that I don't have a list of names that I could just tell stories and I believe he's such is has always been successful, you know, stupid, but he's really come into his own over the last few years in his own thing. And it has to do with that human connection he's been making so in an ideal world when I asked you are webinars, even working you would have said, well, actually marry Klein came into the session having done ten years of webinars. It wasn't working the way did before. And then what she did was and tell me what you did. And as a result, now she's doing a webinar week. That's the kind of thing -actly exact I get that I resonate with that, and that is actually useful in. It's interesting in connects me back with my audience, a win Schroeck the audience saying Stu is awesome, sue McLaren really as awesome. Not him. How do you how do you pull out? Testimonials from people what you used to find people successes in record them. So you could tell them rate question. So you'll love this because your system's kinda guy, so we have one person on our team where her main objective is to find these people get on the phone with them. We have a whole system of interviewing them asking the right questions putting together a loose outline giving it to a copywriter to right to a story. We've got the whole thing going on in. It's worth the investment for us because we know stories are, what will make that impact. Motivate inspire in cell, and so one we have a system for it. I've noticed that nothing works in my business. If there's not a process if there's not literally in SO P for what we wanna do. But to get really tactical, we have this insiders club, this one Facebook group has about seven hundred people in it all my alumni from all my courses, and that is where we encourage them to share their winds. Use hashtag win. And we encourage. Them to tell their stories there. And so any time they do when they do we try to celebrate I make them video. We get excited for them. And then we also tell our students Amy Porterfield dot com forward slash win. Go there. Tell us we ask you, if you questions they tell their story there, if they don't wanna do it publicly so we have to give them the mechanisms in a way to tell us their stories if we don't like last year, I didn't know until their story, I felt like I had no testimonials there were hundreds out there. I just didn't ask for them properly. They come into my inbox and I don't even bother labeling them money more g mail because I don't look at them. Oh, that's another big win actually, like ripping out pieces of paper here to make sure that I actually follow up on this stuff. Let me talk about my, my second sponsor and then come back with some of the things that I've gotten out of this interview, and then where we're gonna go next the seconds, there's a company called host gator hostgator. Everybody knows Gators a place where you can go get your website, hosted inexpensively just works. And it don't say it on the site, but they'll scale up with you. If you need a more robust site, more management, they'll do the whole thing for you. And let me ask you this within the ad for hostgator. If somebody wanted to start a site for something, what's a good way for them to figure out what to start the site for like, if they wanted to if falling your process? And they say you know what? Amy's teaching me had have course. I wanna have. I'm gonna go to hostgator, get my website. I'll have my course. What's the thing that they could do to find the topic to launch to launch your side on? I usually tell my students mostly suits. Have some kind of idea about what they wanna do. They're not sure it's gonna work. So we do something, hold course calls, they get on a call with seven people. And they talk it out, and they get with their ideal customer, avatar in find out how the he'll around the topic, not how they feel about, I'm going to create this course you wanna buy it. But around the topic in that usually gives them a lot of clarity. So I wanna do on say dog trading or how to. How to code a website without actually coding know using tools like Zappia and bubble and all these free tools that are now coming out there to enable you enough free. But inexpensive tools that allow you to code with coding I might get on with seven my friends and ask them just have them. Hear me out. They have to be seven people that are your ideal customer avatar for product like this. So I figure out their ideal customer avatar, then I teach them how to get on a call and really do their diligence, because, you know, a lot of people will move forward with an idea that has never been vetted. And so that's what they themselves in trouble before we create that website. We do some court, we call him course calls. Okay. So do course call on the course call. What are they looking for looking for problems, validation, Wes fears challenges problems? What if they tried before what if they paid for what books they read about it? Like where are they spending their time? What questions do they have about it all of that? Infor, some reason there doesn't seem to be a lot, there is because it's not a challenge. We, we have not hit on on the. Meat of what it needs to be. So they go back to the dry moored. They do more calls of that's so helpful. So then I might if I had this idea for a site that helps you create software without coding. I might talk to people who've tried it in the past, or maybe I've taken courses on how to code in the past, when they tell me where they hit a roadblock. I might actually get an idea for a blog post overcomes it something like I tried bubble didn't work for coating up sites. I might say, well, here's what you should have been doing with it. Not trying to got it. I don't actually have a quick answer for that problem. But I get it. Anyone out there who has an idea and wants to host a website or if you don't like your hosting company right now? Go to hostgator dot com slash mixture of honest with you. They've got a really low price. There actually very basic hosting does what it needs to do. It doesn't do much more, if you want to scale up the way that we did what you could do is call them up when you're ready and you can scale up get dedicated hosting get more this more that even WordPress hosting they don't advertise it at all. But they have that in their always at lower prices, and they've been around forever, so you can count on them. Go to hostgator dot com slash mixture to get the lowest price out there in the I talk like a New Yorker talked fast, hostgator dot com. Recive. Now we got a four year old and a two year old and they're starting to talk just like a fast like me. We are you, you're from New York, you always in New York and New York is still heart of made this like always be really is. Where did you grow up, Orange County, California? Just like that, are you. I'm the valley girl. No, I'm really not. But I do feel like a California girl. The number one way to know him come for new girl. I go outside, and it's sixty five degrees. I'm frizty so, yeah, the opposite. I come in t shirt, I cycle in the cold here. Nothing. This to me at in San Francisco is warm weather, so I like the idea of somebody on our team going and doing interviews with with anyone. If they say something positive, and it I could see that there's metoo it. We should send the writer it doesn't cost much go and do an interview, I'll pay you for it right up oppose and then do use it for something. Are you planning on using it for like both? Yes. Basically, we now we've got this Bank that we keep everything we've dropbox air table. We's asana. He's all these tools, but we end up with the Bank of let's say bunch of stories, and then went happens is if we're gonna go so in September, we're gonna launch digital kademi again. So here's what I'll do one all go in there. Read all the stories all put the ones, I love the most in my webinar, and then I'll put another list of stories for my Facebook lives during the promo, and then I'll put another few for my podcast. So I'm gonna pick and choose the best ones for podcast. Facebook live webinar. Sales page on sales pages. We might turn him into a little bit more testimonial, testimony. Everyone's clear is different than store story. Testimonial is I took this course I followed it step by staff, this, my results, but story is more the challenges the struggles who that person is. And why they did what they did in how they feel now that they've got results. So there's a time for testimonies time for stories. I get that. And then when you say you're gonna do it on Facebook live. Bring them on and have them tell their story with you. Yes, has just started to do, and it's, it's so powerful when people could hear in their own words in it's not just about me telling their story. I'm looking for more ways to capture that, like systematically. Yeah, I keep bringing Brian Harris. I liked that guy. The whole any jail, you know him I only know of him we've talked on Email for hot minute, but I think what he does really solid. I look at staff definitely one of things that I feel like he wants to get into software. You could see that he keeps moving into more and more software and services he doesn't I. Get the feeling he enjoys education, but he really wants to explore this passionate software. He wrote his own core software and at the top of the core software. He has a button that says, like report your windows hole course off ways set list. So you're supposed to do this, and yes, they're happening video for the checklist. But it's a checklist and then when you're done thing at the at the top. What's interesting is that he has that systematically built into software, not using software. I think we're still using wishlist, we still use them wishlist. So I use Cajal he and right. Absolutely love it. And the reason I love it is because I feel as though my course, looks really solid really polished with very little co our work on my end and it's not any special coating. And here's why we moved to Javi. I wanted everybody on my team to be able to make any change necessary to the Bush at any time. And we feel held captive when we started to do custom thing in wish-lists. So we took that whole customization kinda thing away and what with ca job and it's been a lifesaver, by the way. Chris luck listening to us. He just chimed in which we things number one said here that Andrew ca job, because he's been telling me about job. He built his stuff on Cajal be the best decision. I made and I am Philip. I wasn't an affiliate. When I went to them best decision. I want you to check out. Yeah, we should, I think we had for a long time this belief that we could build. Ourselves build it ourselves. And that's a mistake. The other thing he said, is when I asked you about whether webinars, even work, he says, I I I've done just over two hundred thousand with a webinar two weeks ago, they are gold. Everyone should do them. So he still into webinars. Chris, I'd love to have you come on and talk about what you're doing. They have known Chris forever. He actually encouraged me to start selling stuff to my audience. He won't do mixer interview because he knows. Well he should write. This is nice. That is I thought, but I will tell you something, I like to be really honest with you. I worry sometimes that when you and I talk my stuff feels a little bit. Fluffy to you or a little bit software. I'm d- I think he really wants analytics or he wants to actual strategy or whatnot. But I will tell you Andrew that over the last year when I've allowed myself to focus a little bit more on the SaaS metrics in that soft strategies in marketing that things have changed for me. And so I'm glad we got this opportunity to talk about some of the stuff because. I think it makes a huge difference in Ryan Deiss was on stage. I think at traffic in conversion. I think that was the event where he talked about these off metrics why they're so important. So I appreciate you letting us have this conversation, William metrics, meaning such as I listened to my students, and I call him on the phone, and we do course, calls, or we ask we ask them, what their fears are challenges are or I've infused more motivation inspiration into my webinar ill soft to me. But at the bottom line has changed because of it. So I think it's I think it's just important conversation to have. So I think you're under estimating, or maybe it's because I always have a scowl and like this determined look, Heaton shot, the founder of kiss metric said Andrew, you don't have to be so intense just chill out. And I said, I'm not being intense to get a result of being intense 'cause that's why maybe that's yorker. I'm literally taking notes here and pulling them out. So I could tell someone. And I know exactly who's going to do what on on these things. Nice to say this is a great idea. And again, going back, five years into my notes back when I was using Evernote I had a list of things that I asked to say, we need to do it, and I remember following up doing I think I get so much out of this conversation on my conversations with you. I think maybe my face needs to let you know. This a I, I'm glad I, I always I always wanted your show. I wanna make sure we get to the good stuff that's going to this is fantastic. The winds. What's a process that you use to to get that? So you have you keep telling people to go over. Do you have like a I'm thinking, should we put in Email into our sequence when somebody signs up should we have a big button at the top of our site to let them know have done it really? Okay. In the past. I want to be great at it. I think we could even be a lot better at this. We, we have a new customer on boarding sequence. Which is if you're a new student of mine, you get an Email every single week while the courses live and the final Email is a celebration Email where we're asking for the winds. But here's the problem with that a lot of times, my courses are ten weeks. They are not done with their entire course. Ready to launch it in ten weeks. That's not how it's designed. So they're not gonna have a win. So a few things I think we two months later send out an Email asking for their winds wanting to hear from them. I'm starting to see a lot of success come in. I launched my horse in January. So here we are in may just starting to see it. So this is the time we should be getting in front of them. Also. I think it's important Stu does this, where he ends, of course with a celebration, and he lets people know, okay, we're celebrating now but here's what I want you to pay attention to kind of helps them realize what a win is when you do this, that's win. When you do that. That is a win in. I wanna be the first to know he defines what a win is. They know because a lot of times by students will say heating thousand people on my Email list, that's not, not much has over two hundred thousand no without be on your Email is a very big win. So I find the winds I think is important, but I've learned through leadership that over communication is incredibly essential, and I over communicate with my team, and I need to over communicate with my students as well. The wind thing has to get front of them many, many, many times. And frankly, in front of me, like I remember clay Collins, the founder of lead pages heat, he said several times, I only got into software because of mixer and here's how he said at his conference. Introducing me that this is why I got into software and then I never did anything with it, and that's a win. That's not just like a day to day thing. Yes. Go and get that written out somewhere or interview about it and do that. And then you also mentioned the celebration at one point after I sold my company, I just started exploring different groups, just out a fascination, one of things that I noticed was a lot of groups that, you know, in person groups is what I mean. Like old stuff like rotary club Kawana 's club. I went to those things I went to forget what the landmark the landmark thing was interesting because what they did was is something that other groups did they would have graduation day. And so I wasn't just popping into a random webinar to tell me or live seminar to tell me what this stuff is I went into some. Buddies graduation day and they brought their family into celebrating graduate with them and through that you can't help. But you're this is what it is what it does for me, an aren't afterwards as part of this graduation ceremony, go to smaller room and actually learn something, and that's we did that once and we should do that. More the gret. You're aiming for this graduation day. I never done that. I'm taking that one. Not a great thing day. And let's hear from those who have gone before you. I love that. You know, who did a graduation day, kind of interesting is. Dane maxwell. He flew me to Vegas to speak to his people in a private room in Vegas looked around and it was all these people. And I noticed something that they all have in common. They all had a sale, and I thought that was kind of interesting. How do you all have sales? He said the only way you could come to this is if you have a presale, you have to sell something before you make it and then you get to earn the right to come to this event that was kind of interesting to like that ally. Very so here's what I've written down. I've got keep telling them what a win is. And hunting for it. We should have somebody who just interviews are members and we've got that. I've got a good rider now who should finally go and do that. I need to find a way to record. I don't think I'm gonna use vox. I think what I should do is I, I don't even think that I could record into my own thing. I can't talk to myself I love talking to people should be someone on my team on regular basis. Even on the team calls when we're talking a hit record and then I send it to otter and yes, we have transcribed. I think that is so smart and really quick. You know if you identify one person on your team to do this, we have a goal three interviews a week, and we actually have a metric we check metrics, every Monday, one of the metrics, how many people did you talk to did you get to the three interviews this week show or the person who's doing the winds three interviews. It doesn't mean that she's going to create three stories that we've may be one story isn't really gonna work, but she literally gets on the phone interviews three testimonial stories every single week. That's her goal and before that it wasn't happening so frequently so we had to put a metric to it. That's a good one. Actually, we do need a metric also for success one problem that we had with metrics for successive a couple more minutes. Yeah. A great one problem that we had with metrics for success was, I wanna know how many people are going through the program and learning something that was useful the problem. So what we did was we said five weeks in semi mill say, are you getting a result if they are then that becomes the numerator? Her own, basically. It's how many people said, yes, they are versus how many people did, we Email from his that, that number changes too much. Some people don't don't sign up to use it right away. And they don't want the pressure. I need some way of knowing whether this weather, what we're doing works or not. Do you have that the hill you're selling when you wanna know things working? So what we, we've tracked how long it takes somebody to create a course, and how long it takes somebody to actually get it up and running. And so one of the metrics, we say is we know it takes at least sixty days to create a digital course. And at least another thirty if not sixty days to put together all the assets launch it. And so that is one of our metrics that were looking one week. It ask all the time by by your course how long is it gonna take me? But to we know when to go and talk to people, it's gonna take a while to get going. So we do have a little bit of that. We could definitely do better. Okay. Got a lot here. Is there one last thing that you want to that? I didn't ask you about how you how you market, what you do. I market what I do people to know. You want something here. Let me let me remind you some of the things, you said, number one, you've said, look, I wasn't really big on bringing people into my life and doing like an Instagram live, isn't something that comes naturally to you, and you still don't bring people into your cooking life life all day long. But you go on there that, and you also do these Facebook live, or you answer questions. The other thing you said, you do is you buy Facebook ads, and, you know, the Facebook ads at work, not just for people like you for podcasters while actually your podcast or two is because you go into their Facebook page, then what's his info and ads. You can see all the ads that they bought that's really helpful. That was useful for me to see. You're buying ads still leading people. Webinars you said you'll even do five webinars for launch. Okay. Let me see okay anything else. That's working for lorrimore thing. I'm gonna tell you that this is definitely more tangible and one thing I've really dialed in is my own frameworks. So. People have been doing this for years and years. But I didn't realize the power of it until I did it in my last course. So I created this framework called the profitable webinar framework, enemy, basically, is how I do webinars slide by side by side. But I put it together in a framework, and I showed it visual in than I taught it practically by using a slide deck that I generated a lot of money with then I walked by students. The reason I'm telling you, this is, I think everybody has to have a framework that they say they coined it's theirs. And they can refer back to it. A McGinn example I have a weight loss coach over the last year been working with weight loss coach, she ascending before basics, and it's basically her framework to get going with late weight loss and the conversation always starts with what you got to know my four basics. Here's the framework how to get started it. You have something that is yours that it's you've coined it. You've created it in either starts the conversation or it's deep into what you, do you always get to go back to it in its sexual. As a leader, a gives you something of foundation to talk about an, it's what you're known for, and you can have been a few in your business. But I I've noticed my watch people really do well, in online space, even more recently, they all have some kind of framework, and I think it's, it's valuable in it's what I've done this year. And that's helped me a lot as well. You know that actually is absolutely right. I was I don't have that I have to go back in and make that up because that's another marketing tool, but that's not true. Because I actually do have certain things that I believe in that we have to do I get frustrated when people don't do certain way, that's it. And I need to our ticketed to the people who, who are working with me, and then why limited to them. Why not go beyond it right? It's so true. That's what I mean. If you you've got to have those few things that you keep going back to, because it separates you from everybody else. Now, people are saying, oh, have you checked out, these profitable webinar framework? You got to check that out and it's an easy conversation starter for you and other people as well. With another framework that you have just. I'm trying to think I have one called the, the this is very arrogant. It's the Porterfield process for outlining your online horse, and I literally needed after myself, and it's my, my life as of outlining digital horse by framework, and the great thing is been at this for a while. I know how I do it. So now I had just put it down on paper and give it that it's silly pagan top this years ago, you've a title name it own it. And so the profit the porterville process for outlining force in the profitable webinar framework to things that to me are golden in its wireline of the results are coming from because I go back to it again. And again, I think, outlining course, route lining education is one of the questions that I asked you about five years ago because I it seems so silly, whenever I ask people how did you teach thing. They never know they just say, I kinda knew it, but I wanna know a process that I can walk away. Like you and I both know rate Edwards. The writer left him. Attic, he told me that you hired him back when you were working Tony Robbins Betim. He tries to buy your course because you guys have a relationship you refund his money back way to pay. You have you keep the money. But I asked him how he knew how to teach just this is one of the things that comes naturally to me, which I yet because he's so good communication what I want is a process that helps me see it improve what I do I could see how out what you're saying helps you know what actually one last question from Chris luck who's been chiming in a lot here. He's asking Amy what are your? What are you most excited about that? You will be focused on to scale this year twenty nineteen. So thanks for asking. I appreciate that we are creating a membership site. So basically, when you go through one of my courses it ends. Let's say ten weeks and we've realized suits are like don't go anywhere, like we're not ready for you to leave, and we're still working on this, so we're going to invite people into coaching slash membership program that. Extends the experience of being inside digital courses ninety five percent of my revenue, is generated from my own digital horses. So that is my business model but were excited to add one more thing to the mix. I feel like it's not gonna complicate things, but it's going to take my best customers encourage them to continue the journey with me. So that's what we're working on were launching in the fall. Well, I get that. Thanks so much for being here for anyone wanna go follow up with you. Amy is the best place to send just go Amy Porterfield dot com. You don't have slash thing. Just Amy put feel dot com. Perfect or Instagram. I do ally on Instagram, just Amy Porterfield folly right now on Instagram also gonna start to Instagram like my day here, which is kind of exciting that I'm getting to talk to so many people live, it, I'm not doing this is fine. You gotta do it. You gotta remember to do it. Meth the hardest part. Yeah. Andrew I love love love chatting with you. This was not a scary as I thought it would be an I'm really, really honored that you included me in this cause I'm. Dan, in I always have been your big deal. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much for coming in here, answering all these questions that I've had for you have really appreciated Amy Porterfield, check out at Amy Porterfield dot com. I wanna thank sponsors made this interview happened, the first will host your website, right? And will put up with the fact that I read their name way too fast. It's called hostgator dot com slash Mickey. And the second will help you hired phenomenal developers. Top towel dot com slash mixed. Thanks, amy. Thank you. See guys.