558 EAA AirVenture Oshkosh 2019 Preview
This is the airplane, geeks podcast. Our aim is to educate and inform. You explore and expand your passion for aviation in entertain you little along the way this episode. We talk about the upcoming air venture Oshkosh, twenty nineteen with EA director of communications, dick Opinsky in the news, we discuss a woman trapped in an airliner crosswind testing in Iceland, the impact on Boeing of the seven three seven max grounding, and news from the Paris air show, including how Boeing turned lemons into lemonade. Okay. Maybe that's not completely accurate but Boeing kind of stole the show with a completely unexpected move all that. And more coming up right now. Welcome to the airplane. Geeks podcast. This is episode five hundred fifty eight of the show where we talk aviation. I Mex flight. Joining me is I max trescott, the host of aviation news talk podcast, the two thousand eight CF I the year in an expert on learning to fly purchase a Cirrus aircraft max. How are you? Hey. You heck's funny. You should mention Cirrus. I just got out of one of my longer flights for point five hours, so got a lot to fit into that flight all kind of in the local area. Plus one hundred one landing up the mountains, all bunch of instrument approaches. So sometimes people just want to pack a lot in. We certainly did that today. I guess so how is the weather while g whether you expect severe clear. That's nice. You live in the right part of the country. I think. We've got a slight cooling trend. It was a little warm for a fly in at Livermore up in the nineties, and local or today. Wow. We have lots of pilots here tonight. Also with this is he'll glazier a pilot friend of the podcast. Hello. How are you? I'm great Bax. Thanks. How are you good? Good. Tell tell everybody what it is. You fly, I think a lot of people who listen to the show already know but for those that don't does a little bit about your airplane. I fly nineteen seventy-two PA Twenty-eight Cherokee, g which is a one eighty horsepower, four cylinder single engine aircraft. And I've owned it now for about seven years. And it's a real pleasure gives me opportunities to do things that a lot of people don't get to do and it just completely normal for me. But I'd never stop appreciating it, and is it in better condition now than it was seven years ago? Well, it certainly has been upgraded several times. It's it was in great condition. The prior owner was a or is a retired Marine Corps a four scout pilot. And he took great care of it for twenty six years, and it's been hampered since he's owned it. And then I've hankered it and we baby literally, we clean it with baby wipes. And after each flight trying to take the leading edges and take all the junk off of it. And so it's in really good shape. Every couple of years, we do a little bit of updating to it. So I've got a nice eighty be twenty twenty compliant panel. And, and star next. Big update is probably going to be replacing the directional gyro and the attitude indicator with some Garmin g fives. And after that is probably going to be a project to replace the upholstery and to update some of that very aged of appointments. Speak. It never ends. Does it? No. It doesn't. There are certainly other things we could do with our money, but this is clearly, the most fun thing. We can do with for sure. All right. Well, David Vanderhoek is off this episode but we do have a guest. That's dick convince ski he's director of communications for the experimental aircraft association. The EA dick. Welcome to the airplane, geeks podcast. Well, thank you so much. It's great to be here. Always a pleasure. Talking to you, especially before. We're getting ready to go to Oshkosh. Yes. We are the, the, the big event of the year is coming up. Pretty quick. I think July twenty second through twenty eight twenty nineteen and we're going to be talking with dick about your venture Oshkosh coming up. But first, we've got a little bit of news. We want to hit up on. And so ask is everyone ready running from the west. I story, you know, I saw this on the news tonight, a travel nightmare, waking up cold and alone in a darkened plane. Mexico was an Air, Canada flight, I think, from Quebec City to Toronto indeed. And you know, this is not the first time we've had a story like this, I can't remember the last one was in Canada as well. Probably not. But boy, if you're gonna wake in the, you know, cold, dark, airplane, you'd like to be in a warmer country which this did happen in the, the summertime but I think it's a little ironic is that the, the passenger Tiffany Adams said that she had been the little anxious on the the flight to begin with. And then she fell asleep says who's experiencing anxiety and insomnia. And when she woke up gosh, she was in the back of the plane by herself aircraft was dark and cold, and it was moved back away from the terminals. Of course, what would anybody do you whip out your cell phone, and of course, the battery was dead? There. She was an airplane trying to figure out now. What do I do next? She apparently made her way, up to the cockpit and found a flashlight and then she figured out how to open the main door without apparently, deploying the shoot, which are the, you know. The, the water shoot there and from there. She just went ahead and flash. The flashlight on the exterior of the aircraft, which all that was rather clever that would tend to magnify the, the flashlight and eventually a luggage, cart driver Cape over. So she apparently has still having trouble sleeping because she says he has reoccurring nightmares about, you know, a waking alone locked up in someplace, dark. So what a what a tough experience. I guess I mean I would have seen it kind of as an adventure. First thing I would look for is where's the food, after I found a flashlight I think, but maybe the big issue is. How was she not seen by the crew, or the, the cleanup people or whatever that you would expect with kind of run through the airplane? I mean, maybe not necessarily always expecting to find a passenger. Still in the plane, but, you know, somebody could have forgotten a bag or there could be something else left that either was left by mistake or was intentionally left with ill intent. So I think that's kind of concerning. I don't know. Dick, what do you think if you'd woken up in the dark and realize that you on on an airplane? What do you think you'd do next? Well, I look for the keys, I up in the cockpit soup we can turn the thing on and get going. All that aside, that is a little bit amazing. Because usually the flight crew makes check of everything, and then the cleanup crew and so forth. We'll go through an airliner to find those sort of things that is a little bit odd. I'm not sure how sometimes you know, the discount airline has some surprises for you. I guess. Well this was this was Air Canada. So should be a discount airline. So, yeah, that's something for Air Canada to investigate. I think try to understand what happened. What didn't happen that should have happened. I the well, I guess, different people are frightened by different things of if it was me, I, I guess I wouldn't have been as anxious, maybe as this woman was apparently. But hey, that's okay. Who's to say how anxious someone should be when waking up in Dr I think I wake up and a lot of dark places actually I mean, I'm in hotels so much that usually every time I. Wake up and it's dark. I'm in some strange place. And I don't know where I am. Well, and I wonder if this probably a flight that arrived really late at night in a magin Levin thirty at night, she had a crew. That's perhaps been up fourteen sixteen hours or more probably they were really exhausted. And their I thought was, wow. How quickly can we get out of this airplane and get onto the shuttle bus to the hotel? Yeah. Yeah. Well, we have another story. This is from simple flying dot com. Did collapse of. Wow air lead to reinstatement of Iceland cross wind tests. Now I've been familiar with these crosswind tests in Iceland, at maybe a couple of the airports, or well Reykjavik, and Kef Catholic and airlines would or not airlines, but air framers would often bring the airplanes there to test because the, the wind conditions were kind of ideal for that sort of testing. But what I didn't realize was that this crosswind testing had been banned at that airport in two thousand thirteen had had you guys been aware of that. Boy, I wasn't even aware that this kind of testing was going on their big sense that you would know since you were working for engine manufacturer. But, you know that was also point where the tourism was really. Booming. It was probably right around that year that I went to Iceland on. Wow airlines, and you know the, the tourism was just jumping, you know, ten percent of the year. The country was a little bit overrun. So I can see that, that might have been one logical solution as to how do you handle the increase in air traffic get rid of the cross? Crosswind landings. Yeah. Well, apparently there was in twenty thirteen there was a crash Sukhoi s j one hundred crashed and I think the well, the government or the airport authority was worried about the fact that these airports are in a populous populated area. And if there was something that went wrong that a lot of innocent people could be impacted. But now now that wow is, is, is no more and not generating economic benefit to. The area. I guess they've thought that this testing does bring a lot of economic benefit lot of business into the area, all the support people that come to their that are associated with the crosswind testing and all of that. So thinking, well, maybe, maybe it's a good thing to, to bring that back this is as far as I know is limited to airliners. What about G a airplanes did Cirrus do any serious crosswind testing for, for those aircraft or is that generally done for G A airplanes? You know, for sure every appeal is going to have in the limitations section a recommended maximum. While actually they're going to call it the maximum demonstrated crosswind component. It's one of the few things that the limitation section that's not actually limitation. It just basically says this was the highest win that we happened. To have the period when we were testing it. And so if you're testing beyond this limit, hey, your test, pilot hill, have you ever experienced any big crosswind issues with your plane, so yeah, there were a few landings there. And that's most of the time when I'm most concerned about the crosswinds is during landing, and that I was pretty much at or very close to the limits of my rudder, but what's interesting about the Cherokee in particular with the shape of its wing, and it's a low wing aircraft is that when you get the plane down into what would otherwise be your area of ground effect that in many cases, the crosswind is dramatically. The effect of the Crossman is dramatically reduced in the Cherokees. Unlike in higher winger perfect, the Cessna that most people learn to fly in a lot of people aren't flying like the one seventy two in the fifties and so forth, one fifty so in the Cherokee, it's just an inch. Interesting little who caught feature that when you get down low to the ground just before touchdown you're in the same area that you would otherwise be feeling ground affect on takeoff. And there's a real clear increase in rhetoric thirty when you're in a severe Crossman situation just seems that the, the plane settles toward the ground without really getting thrown around too much, once you're on the ground that you start feeling it again, because now you're not flying the plane, you're getting, you know, pushed around on the ground, kind of like a skateboard but, but yeah, it's a it's certainly we're all taught to handle them. And, and if you're concerned about what the cross is doing. Let's say you're out of options. You can certainly try a low pass before committing to landing, but you'd really want to get close to be where you can decide loud hurting yourself for breaking anything that it, it is there isn't going to work, the dicta. We ever see much in the way of crosswinds at Oshkosh. There are times, of course when we have airplanes coming in both on nine thousand seven eighteen thirty six at the same time you will get some crosswind factor. The controllers to a, a very nice job of trying to line up the airplanes to what they can handle. And of course, the pilots and command can always call it off and say, I'm not comfortable with it. The only time we're really gets interesting couple of stories come to mind, first of all, and you have us hard south west wind. That's a quarter and win for either one of those runways that makes things a little bit interesting. And of course, I remember ten years ago, in fact when the eight three eighty came in it was hard, west wind coming across the, the runway. And of course, they had to land eighteen thirty six and they tried to crab it into the wind, and it was one of the more interesting landings I've ever seen in it in a large airliner, but they got it on the ground well and so forth. But the people who were there that day says, well, I've never seen a three eighty crab like that. So it was it was interesting. But, you know, those are the kind of things that a lot of times, we ask the pilots, making sure that you're comfortable with what you're doing coming into Oshkosh. Just say, all right. I know the not my I know the traffic patterns. I know it's going to be hectic out there, make sure you're comfortable with the wind arrangements, because it's somewhere in Wisconsin, and you can end up in kind of Risi situation. Sometimes we always like it when it's too nuts. And so just pick your runway and be guided to the dot but there are times where it's a little greasier than that, especially in some of the essays and things like that, that are a very lightweight and it was mentioned before you'll feel it. If you've got a high wing LS, as you might feel it when you're, you're coming in. So you gotta have that cross win expertise to the fore, when you're when you're bringing it in, you know, that's interesting to me, what you said about the controllers and being able to kind of success, the, you know, the comfort. Level of the pilot or the proficiency, depending on the conditions and, and what's going on? Or how different the whole whole process is to what they've encountered in the past. I imagine that's kind of an important skill for the for the controllers it something that they go through as well knowing what the conditions of the airport are at any given time. I've seen where they've spent a lot of time landing aircraft on nine two seven or trying to get some of the, the larger heavier aircraft to do the crosswind landings. And if you have an f sixteen coming in, or you've got something big coming in. Maybe you can run it on in a higher crosswind on eighteen thirty six but the prevalent wins here often from the west north west the southwest during the summer. And so you'll see nine two seven being used a lot anybody who's camped up in the north forty knows that, that you could watch a lot of landings in short time on nine two seven just pull up a chair at the edge, and you'll see people come. On the numbers and adopt and every place else. All right. Another story this on Boeing, this comes from KOMO news dot com. Boeing may see layoffs. If another production rate cut happens, according to an aviation consultant, this is a prepares air show story and quotes, Scott Hamilton, Liam company and he made a couple of points talking about the seven three seven max situation, which seems to be going on and on. I I'm not sure how long this is going to be before we see those aircraft returning to to the skies. But it's it's taking longer than I was figuring at the beginning. But in any event, Hamilton makes some points, he says that finally. Boeings executives have gotten serious about understanding the situation in the impacts on not only the industry, their customers, the operators. But also on the, the flying public and their and their perception, Hamilton thinks Boeing will bounce back. I do as well. But as for the headline of the article, as we've talked about previously Boeing lowered their production rate in April, they went from fifty two planes, a month to forty two planes a month. Now they didn't change the workforce at all. Maybe because they didn't realize it was going to go on this long. I don't know but Hamilton raises the question if this continues, Boeing can't just keep producing and parking seven three seven max jets, and we might see some. Layoffs as a result. I don't know. I mean, what do you guys think I hope it doesn't come to that? Well, it's a highly cyclical industry to begin with, and we've been in a expansionary, boom for aerospace for many, many years at this point, I haven't looked at the numbers recently. But it's got you close to ten years. And we talked a while ago, several months ago when we had a story about the air force, which had stopped deliveries of aircraft from Boeing, because of quality issues where they were finding debris in holds of new airplanes being delivered to them. And at that point, I had looked up to see how much hiring they had done in the prior year. They'd added ten percent to their workforce, and can any time you grow your workforce by ten percent in a single year. That's, that's pretty dramatic. And that was the biggest hiring year, I think, in the prior twenty years. So could be that this may be a short term, you know, downcycle in hiring, which is, you know, tough both on the employer and the employee. You know, nobody likes to lose a job. And certainly the employers don't have to like to retrain, these people when they have to hire them back. I think on top of that. Boeings probably making some calculations on the risk. They might see of not being able to bring back any employees that are laid off because right now the unemployment rate in the country is so low that it is definitely if you're the employee and you're looking for a job. And so you're the seller in, in that transaction. It's a seller's market. So anybody who is highly skilled, and his laid off from a job like Boeing is very marketable is very marketable and could find themselves with a happily employed job, very shortly after leaving Boeing and Boeing may have a hard time, bringing them back because not a lot of people wanna go to a place that the stability is not where they would like it to be. And so there's a I'm, I'm I be surprised if people at Boeing, we're not using the calculus of the risk associated with losing highly skilled people at this point in the country's economy. Right. And not only would it be difficult to replace those people should they move onto other employment. But the training costs if you do get them, the training costs are or or significant, but the Paris was an interesting. The parents air show was an interesting event this year. I think that going into it, the big well, the big talk was about the, the seven three seven max and what was happening with, with Boeing, there's that there's the, the Boeing middle of the market airplane, sometimes called the seven nine seven, and I think people were pretty sure that, that was not going to get announced, at the airshow whereas it might have otherwise and then from Airbus, you've got the Airbus A three Twenty-one XL are which is maybe slot. Right into that middle of the market, but there was a big surprise. I think the biggest surprise of the of the whole event was the letter of intent between Boeing and I a g for two hundred seven three seven max aircraft. So in the middle of, you know, all this conversation about is, is the aircraft viable, what's Boeing gonna do they come out with this? L O Y. Now, of course, I a g is the parent of well things like British Airways, I bury a- airlinks, also some low cost carriers viewing and level and they are an all a three twenty family of operators in that in that size class. So for this letter of intent for seven three seven max for two hundred of them in the middle of this was was quite the shocker in. Apparently, it was a shocker to Airbus as well. I think it's really quite stunning that they would co away from their, their major vendor. Airbus and cut a deal with Boeing without even telling Airbus or even giving them an opportunity to, to bid on the deal, which I think tells us that Boeing cave them an incredibly good deal I think right now you know Boeing position where they are, are the week party in the negotiation. So they probably a highly highly discounted these aircraft. And perhaps part of that deal was, you know, we'll go ahead and highly discount these to you. But, you know, you can't be using us as you know, a show here, you can't just go and bid against us with with Airbus. So maybe that's why the deal didn't get brought up to Airbus side. Just imagine the discount was really quite large on these seven three seven. Yeah. The rumors at the show as told to me where that the discount was just phenomenal kind of unheard of sort of discount, because it is really. Unusual for, for an airline to only approach one supplier, Boeing in this case. And especially when you hear fleet is, is with the other with with Airbus. So Airbus hasn't given up, although I'm not sure that there's anything they can do about it. But they, they say that they really, really want to bid on this. But I haven't seen any indications that A G is going to go go in that direction twenty four billions huge. If I were Airbus, I would be hurt. That's just that's quite of a slap in the face from, you know, a major customer. Yeah. One can only imagine that it was just a deal. That was just so good. I mean how, how good does it need to be from Boeing before, before you say, okay, I'm going with that? I'm not even going to bother talking to Airbus. I mean that's just that's just hard to hard to fathom. There's also another in this. Hasn't gotten as much press. I don't think but what I see is a deal with I a G and Boeing services to supply, quote a long-term off platform component services agreement for British Airways, a three twenty fleet of aircraft. So while I'm not sure who British Airways, British Airways is using now for component services component repairs and so forth. But since looks like it's going to be Boeing here in the future. Of course. Another aspect of this is the, the eighth three twenty XL are it, obviously is shares, a commonality with the three twenty family. They did some integration of the fuel tanker additional fuel tank, which gives it greater range, some other re-, relatively minor. I think changes to it, although they did make some changes to the landing gear. I think probably to deal with the weight. Otherwise, they're looking to deliver these, I think in twenty twenty three if I if I remember correctly. And so the question comes up, well what about the Boeing in MA? I mean Boeing is pretty wrapped up in trying to resolve the a the 737 max issues, and so isn't really, well doesn't have the focus the attention the management attention that the enemy would likely. Have had. Otherwise Airbus coming out with, with this, the three Twenty-one XL are I you know, I it makes me wonder if the timing of Boeing's and MA, and if Boeing may in light of all this push that out or skip it, and go to the next, the next airplane cycle, and work on the seven three, seven replacement or some other new aircraft. That is part of the next cycle. So I think it's interesting to contemplate in, in the packs podcasts that I did with Mary, Kirby, and John Walton actually, we recorded it today should be out in a few days. We talk about this and it's, it's entirely possible that Boeing might be changing their strategy in light of these conditions. Do you has it been decided yet by Boeing that? The M A would be twin-aisle or single. They talk about it being a twin-aisle with single-aisle economics. I'm not sure I know exactly what that means. But that's what they're saying because the XL is definitely going to be a single. And right. And speaking of passenger experience, I don't necessarily think I find myself terribly attractive to a single comfort level on an extremely long range aircraft. And there are a lot of people were giving carriers a hard time using the seven five seven for overseas trips and now there's XL ours opposed to beat that in terms of range in capacity, and just thinking to myself, maybe what might there might be some pushback from the passengers of being stuffed into a metal tube or plastic tube in this case, that's, you know really, really crowded and really long duration. Nhs? Whereas, I think what Boeing's perhaps feeling from the consumers is that a twin-aisle would be more comfortable and would be popular on shorter routes, perhaps than a seven eight seven or seven triple seven for that matter. And that would be because you've seen even today think forgot which podcast or articles talking about in the last few days. How many other countries you don't see too much in, in the US, we certainly see it in Asia a lot where they're using wide-body aircrafts for short hops. What we what we would consider short hops, and how those planes are full and that's possibly, what going is looking into and saying, hey, if we can supply, a twin-aisle aircraft that has the economics of a single, there's a lot of markets that they're using right now with less efficient planes. And that might be what they're looking at which, which even the XL. Are is competing for mind share at the moment? I don't know that it necessarily will be a direct competitor with the what, what Boeing has in mind with the enemy, because it might actually be completely different markets, one, the XL are being long distance you high density, but otherwise, not very big plane, and which the long legs and then Boeing's looking at higher high density, but also short legs, so I don't know. It's so it'd be interesting to see if they end up competing with each other actually complementing each other once they decide what they're going to actually look like, if only we had a crystal ball that was the least bit accurate. I think we could we could leverage that into some serious wealth? I'd like a refund for my crystal ball. Please. Again, our guest is convinced ski director of communications for the EA dick, you must be spending. A lot of time ramping up for this year's air venture Oshkosh what, what are some of the MO the fun things? The exciting things that people can look forward to this year while it, it is a going to be a great year. First and foremost, thanks a lot for taking the time to talk about cost a little bit. This is a big one because for us it's the fiftieth consecutive year in Oshkosh. You'd think this is the sixty seventh fly in overall. And if the of them have been to Oshkosh here from some of the old timers who remembered the Rockford years now that's a half century ago, and it is something to think about those of us who came, first of all in the nineteen seventies to see the growth of the grounds of the event what it was. In the nineteen seventies. And then through the eighties when Concorde game for the first time Goya's your came some of those airplanes made the appearance then in the early nineties when I joined the staff some of the growth in the ground. So when Tom holder as knee was at the helm putting the, the grounds together we saw the expansion. I still call them the new exhibit hangers and now they're more than twenty years old. You think about that? And but I still remember going down on the flight line. And some of those exhibit hangers get a hot summer Wisconsin day, and it was cozy. Let's say in some of those places, and ever since then, though, that the growth in it, and just seeing more companies larger exhibits of people from more countries coming in, and it really has become I like to call it the family reunion that you try to get the Oshkosh at some point many people make it every year. But others make it once in a lifetime. Once every couple of years, once every decade, it's. It's fun talking to people who haven't been here for fifteen years or so. And they say, well, I remember this I say, well, that's been gone for ten years. And so we moved some things around but to see the growth and every time you think, well, we can't get anybody else in here. We find a way to put some more people in here. And that's what makes it fun, just hearing the excitement of people. Now just a few weeks out talking about their trips to Oshkosh and wanting to get here. Now, this, of course, is the fiftieth anniversary of Apollo eleven the landing on the moon. And I understand there's some some activities associated with that anniversary. Coming up, we do, we, we have an anniversary, Michael Collins, the command module pilot will be joining us on Friday nights, ally, twenty-six. We have an evening program scheduled with him and Joe Engle, who's often the forgotten man in the Apollo program because he was scheduled to go up on Apollo seventeen. Trained with the astronauts bent on the backup crew. Ready to go up on Apollo seventeen and then NASA decided let's put a geologist on the mission and Harrison Schmidt went on the missing. Joe Engle got bumped he was going to go on one of the subsequent missions, because Apollo eighteen nineteen and twenty were still being scheduled. But then congress cut funding to those, and they never went up. So joined will eventually had a very successful career. Nasa ended applying on the shuttle, and so forth. But it is interesting. So both Mike Collins and Joe Engle will be joining us on that Friday night at the in the woods. Now that's exciting. I, I saw I think last night, CNN produced or at least played a documentary film of Apollo eleven and it uses all vintage period, film. It's, it's nothing, you know, everything you see is from, you know, from that period from the, the launch of Apollo. Oh eleven the moon landing, and then the return and including some, some footage that I think had not been seen before, just the just spectacular. So it's great that, you know air venture is, including that celebration that those activities for the anniversary. That's that's really great. A lot of people do recall back in nineteen ninety four when we had between fifth anniversary of the Apollo eleven mission, and we had fifteen of the surviving, Apollo, astronauts, join us that here and that was incredible not even naphtha could put together that reunion in that particular year. A lot of lot of those after nuts are gone now and including people such as Neil Armstrong or no longer with us. And so here we are fifty years later to have the people that we had a couple of years ago when Jim Lovell, and Frank Borman, and Buzz Aldrin were with us. And now being able to bring Michael college. Who I don't believe it's been Oshkosh since nineteen ninety four to bring him in to talk about that first mission. And what that was like it's certainly a big honor for us. And it's something I'm sure people are going to enjoy theatre in the woods Bettman. He and I understand Burt rutan is coming as well is that's big. We put that together over the past month or so of Berg, of course, I guess if you're going to have somebody who's called a rockstar on the grounds of Oshkosh Bernard tan would probably be it. He hasn't been with us for a couple of years, but he's coming back. And what's really nice is we're gathering some of the airplanes that he designed. In fact, it sounds as if we've got almost every single aircraft design that still flying that birth has created that will be enough Tosh and you talk about things, of course, the long easies booze easies, some of those, there will be the original, one of the original their revisions who that will come in things such as. Catbird the boomerang some of those you don't see that often coming in. And I hear that one of bird star ships navy here as well. So all of those airplanes here at the same time, so we'll have bird here during the week and always very popular the things when, when he stops to speak and talk about aircraft design and his history all the way up to eventually what became spaceship, one in white Knight. One back the middle of last decade than me that fly with Mike Melville and, and Brian Benny making that I successful civilian spaceflight. Yes. Yes. And birch. And interesting guy I met him in his, his, his brother dick, at the, the US air force museum in Dayton few months ago. He and both of them, but Birt's very approachable, and I found him to be more than happy to have a conversation with you about kind of with every to, to talk about. So, yeah, that's, that's great. That's really fantastic. Yeah. The great thing about Burt is, you know. Is he uh gosh, to him as always been a second home, every time he's designed an airplane, and the people who may remember back in the eighties, the first time the Voyager came in nineteen Eighty-four before they made the big around the world flight might recall that they just got that out of the paint, shop, it was just coming out? And, and so they didn't even have the winglets on it yet, but they slew its Oshkosh and brought it in and there's a famous photo from overhead from now thirty five years ago where you could tell the grass was completely stomped down around the Voyager. Circle of stumped on grass and the Voyager was in the middle of it. But people were just so intrigued by it, and it was a, a classic do-it-yourselfer project that did not take any government funding, but they did one of the last group Minson aviation when they flew around the world nonstop on that one tank of fuel. Yeah, he he just created so many amazing aircraft. It's, it's just so impressive that one person. I mean, there I can only think of a few other people that are anywhere near in that league in terms of prolific design of important aircraft over, over many years. So, yeah, that's great, people are going to, I think, really enjoy Burt at us kosh. Well, what about some of the flying exhibits or the air show, what kind of performance that's, that's sort of I'm looking for the flying performers? What, what are we looking at? Well, we've got some of the great ones you. You may know the Sean Tucker's, come back with with Jesse Panzer, this year they're doing a two ship formation. So Sean will be back at Oshkosh this year. The US air force is supporting us a great deal. The air combat command is stepping forward and you're going to see things such as the thirty five twenty two eight ten demo team, and everybody loves seeing the thunderbolts or, you know, the word hog, whatever you wanna call it out there flying, and those will be out there as well. So we'll we'll see some of that. But, you know, a lot of the favorites from past years, that you've seen everything from the aeroshell team coming in to people like Mike gooley and, and so forth filling up that airshow roster. I it's really amazing. When you think about it that during venture week, there are nine airshows going on in seven days, which is a tremendous credit to the planning from our own era team. With the FAA and everybody else involved because you put on an air show every afternoon of two to three hours, then to other nights you go out there and go back and do it at night. And that's not even including what we've developed in the ultra light area in the past couple of years with the, the flying activities down there, in the evening where you might see light sport aircraft in powered parachutes and some of the, the short takeoff and landing aircraft out there and maybe drone or to flying around and some helicopters, everything else down on the ultra light strip and that's developed very nicely on the nights. When we don't have a night air show for some evening flight, but as attractive several thousand people coming down there to the south end, and enjoying that Perrilliat now hill you're going to be at Scottish. Are you flying in? That's the plan. Yes, I don't have any other plans. So I'm really hoping to get there. So I'm really hoping the flying part works out. Yes. And we're we're loading up hill. L with some some giveaways. Some pins and few T shirts and things. So if you run across hill, you might be able to score yourself, so some merch, I hope you've got enough enough capacity, and you're in, you're playing for the stuff that's on its way to you. Yes. So funny, she mentioned that we actually stole a lot of our stuff in, in somewhere in Oshkosh. It's in a big fifty gallon tub, and we have made friends with a family who has been coming for about thirty years and they do a hospitality tent. And they have they figured out how to do it. Right. They have everything in a trailer. And somebody local drives up with the trailer and dumps it all on the north forty. And when we befriended them, they said, you could, you know, buy yourself into this and they've all your things here. So. Yeah. Most of the heavy things are actually already in Oshkosh in a trailer waiting for us to arrive. That's, that's a really great idea. Maybe I should have sent this stuff there. Instead at your place. You know, the one thing I have to say Oshkosh lax is one of those Amazon lockers you. That's the city doesn't have one, which I would really take advantage of if they did. Well, there's a chance business opportunity. Everybody listening. That's right. Yes, somebody put in Amazon Walker. And you guys can you know, pay for all of your grant for a year about two weeks. And how about you extra Scott? Are you attending this year? I just decided in the last week or so I'm going to skip the sheer. I've been there at least a dozen times, I looked at long backlog of projects that need some time at attention. I thought. So we'll, we'll see how that works out. I'm gonna miss you guys, but was there last year. We'll do it again soon. Yeah. Good good love to see their some year. That'd be great. So dick, what else? What else new or exciting can we can we look forward to you mentioned that drones. And I think that a lot of events lot of air shows different kinds of aviation events are setting up things like, you know, drone zones or net system where drones can be flown. And I think that's a great way for people who, maybe you're not really sure what these things are all about the maybe learn a little bit more about them. So are, are you going to expect to have something like that? We are we're setting up their own cage, that has been here, the past few years, and a lot of the companies are coming in once again, they'll have demonstrations, the hands on opportunities. What's really exciting this year is the growth that we had in aviation, gateway park over the past few years with the innovation showcase now expanding into something we're called the urban air, mobility showcase and we keep hearing people like Uber. Elevates and Amazon, getting involved, people like opener with the black fly, which made its debut at Oshkosh last year, and it will be returning this year. Where are we going as far as flight in the next ten years in the next fifteen years, will, we have the personal flying machines that will maybe be autonomous maybe be the pods that fly a lot rely on the electric, power and so forth? All of those things are out there and we've accumulated quite a bit, many of those companies that are coming this year to Oshkosh to showcase that because well EA is, of course, the experimental aircraft association and so it's not just about. Making traditional airplanes because seventy years ago. People didn't think that others built airplanes and designed airplanes. Well, we've proven that wrong. And with the more than thirty thousand amateur built on the roster right now from the FAA. So where are we going next? And that's an important part for us to say this might be our next horizon, who knows where we might go, but there's a lot of innovative thinking out there, and we're bringing much of it as we can't Oshkosh. That's really, really good to hear dick and the reason I say that is because of this whole urban air mobility topic, you A M is something that I had been thinking about, and kind of wondering where, you know, people's enthusiasm kind of getting a little bit ahead of practical reality, but few weeks ago, I attended the FAA's US symposium in Baltimore, and it became a really clear that. There are a lot of companies and not just little startups that are viewing urban air mobility, as something very serious in working very hard and the FAA, the regulators are working very hard to, to make the changes that would allow this this, it really does seem like this is coming. And you know, it's, it's something that some people might have issues with, you know, how are we going to manage, the, the airspace, with all this other activity? And then we've got you know, Amazon delivery. Drones and Google wing delivery. Drones and all of this stuff taking up airspace. How do you manage it all? But there's a lot of a lot of thinking going on a lot of partnerships between government and industry working these issues pretty seriously. So I think this is, is something that we need to pay attention to because like it or not. I, I think it's coming. It is coming and it's something you mentioned it. It's very true. We who are so involved in aviation have to be the think about that. Some of the people getting involved in the urban air mobility, or ton Humous lying, or you a yes or whatever you wanna call it are very powerful companies, and they do have the irib regulators, and they're putting millions and millions of dollars into their research development about how they're going to use the space, so as that airspace becomes as we bring another player into it. It's very important for us as aviators to stand. Nd United in saying we understand technology. We understand using the space for more things. But we who enjoy flying owner planes, also has to be very cognizant that we have to step up and say it's important not to have more regulations put on us because of it, it's important that new equipment isn't mandated because of you a s coming in, and that we have to do some alterations into the rules. We have to make that happen. So all of those things take place in one very nice thing that happens in Oshkosh every year is you have this entire spectrum of aviation there. And at the same time you have the regulators, you have the policymakers there who can talk one to one two people and discuss what these might be because as you look at some of the US, certainly the technology is going the regulatory side probably hasn't caught up quite yet, but it's something that will have. To catch up and how will that affect us in aviation? Those are the kind of discussions that take place at Oshkosh every year as well. You know, oftentimes, we look at the air show is products so forth and go, it's kind of the whizbang time, but behind the scenes, a lot of these discussions are taking place, as well, in those are really, really important discussions. I mean I, I know you know that, but you need to be part of the process, there really is a process for making these kinds of sweeping regulatory changes in allowing the innovation to flourish. The NPR 'em process, for example, we, we haven't NPR AM coming up in September, for remote identification of unmanned aircraft. And so it's an important thing for people to look at to think about into comment provide the FAA with with your input. So I mean, that's that takes place. You know is part of a formal process, but I like what you're. Saying dick about the opportunity that Oshkosh for different stakeholders to come together and have these conversations like that, because, you know, if you have some thoughts you have some opinions and you don't you know, express them and talk about them with, with other folks. Then there's not much value in, you know, in your opinion. Well, yeah. The opportunities there. And if we give away the opportunity, then that, that train passes us by and things are put into place that are very difficult to change. Once they are set in stone and put into place. So it's important that your voices heard the FAA is there. Of course, they have a big facility right on the ground. So I encourage people to stop by, and talk to the policy makers talk to the people who are there, we fully expect to see the administrator or the acting administrator, whoever happens to be in office at that point to join us once again, at Oshkosh and, and take a look around and see what's happening in the nation community. What's happening with technology and be aware of that, not only from the new technology. But some of the things that we're trying to do regulatory breaking down. Some of the barriers Oshkosh is a very important place where we can not only tell people about it and talk about it with the FAA. We can show them. We can. Take them, right. Over to it. And say here's what's happening either. Here's the good or cure the challenges, we face and can do that on a on a one to one basis. All right. Very good. Dick, do you get enough sleep at night? I mean, do you do you find yourself lying awake worrying about how this is coming together or have you done it so many times now that it's no big deal? Oh. Well, it's always a big deal, whatever. He's a big deal. It's there are times that your wake up in the middle date. And all, yeah. I've got answer that Email, that's gotta get done tomorrow. Or, you know, did I order that thing off to look it up when it gets to work and, you know, those type of things, you know, we, we have a thing we do on staff, saying, we can sleep in August will, we'll take care of that in August. But, you know, at this time of year it's, it's a heck of a lot of fun. There's a lot of anticipation. There's a lot of excitement coming in. Really people are what we learn. Every year is people come to Oshkosh come to venture for their own reasons. They have personal things they want to do their favorite type of airplane, what they want to see fly with they want to buy as far as technology, the friends, they want to meet. So you have hundreds of thousands of people all coming to us cash for their own personal reasons which makes it incredibly exciting, but also a great challenge because how do you try to fulfill that experience? When you have that many different desired outcomes, that actually are part of it, interesting Vic, do you have any tips for first timers? Well, it all depends if you're flying your own airplane in and I will say this, every time read the note them understa-. The note them one thing that we have this year that we learned from last year, you may recall last year when we had some bad weather on Sunday forehand, and then the weather listed about two o'clock, and it became a rush to get the Oscar and it was something that a lot of airplanes trying to get to the same place at the same time. I don't care if you're kosh oral hair or teeter borough or Hartsfield, you do that you're going to stress the system, and that's what happened. So we made some tweaks with the note him put forward, a lot of suggestions. The FAA took some of those put them into this year's note him and one that we have that's new this year is actually a text messaging system for pilots to learn where the arrival procedures are, if there are any backups anything like that. So, you know, tell pilots right now all you have to do is text us. Arrival h arrival. So it's always. H. A R. Our IB L two six four six zero zero six four six hundred and then you'll automatically sign up updates as far as the current status of parking as far as inbound procedures arrivals, and so forth that will help pilots lot. So if you have to maybe sit back at an airport for a while wait for a wave to clear, then make your final approach, you know, that's terrific, and everybody will have the same knowledge base. So if you're a pilot read the note of for everybody else, including the pilots, once he'd get there, I always say the same things comfortable shoes for those of us who might be folically challenged like me bring a half your. If. Lots of sunscreen, it's Wisconsin. You might wanna talk that rain poncho into your ears someplace, that fold up rain poncho because I think anybody who's been to ask knows as much as we love having chamber of commerce weather. It's not always like that. And you may get a rainstorm so you know, be prepared for those type of things. And, and always remember the rules that Paul repes- knee set down, when he said, you know, if you if you drop something, pick it up, if you see something on the ground pick it up. Be nice to one another. Don't touch somebody else's airplane without their permission? All of those things remember the cash rules, but, you know it is a lot of people I it is a frenzy. Everybody will always say, you know, I went to Oshkosh and I didn't see everything don't feel badly about that. I've been to get more than twenty five of the flying's in Oshkosh. I haven't seen everything yet. So enjoy the time. But, you know, try to take in the things that you. Really want to see and then you'll always be surprised with some experiences that you have the people, you'll meet talking to one guy today says it's kind of funny. I flew fourteen hundred miles here to see somebody who lives down the street from me, those kind of things happen. And so that, you know, that's the amazing part of our venture the fun part, you'll meet old friends, you'll make friends that will become friends, and, you know, just a guess, take a breath. Enjoy the moment. Don't get wound too tight. And if you're flying in stay away from a case of get their ideas 'cause, you know, we wanna make sure you get here, safely and get home safely great. And of course, people can learn more by visiting a dot org. Any other the other online resources. Well, there are a lot of people who put out first timer guides things like that, you know, we always say, you know go onto EA dot org. Click the venture tab, a lot of the things you need right there. We had we're updating the schedules. We have an app. Download the venture f we have found that as grown so much in popularity over the past few years that people will use the app on their smartphone tablet. Whatever to take a look at the scheduled see where the exhibitors are to get the latest update. So when we get some of the news will update the app right away. So people are aware of it, because just like everything in aviation. It is subject to change without notice, and airplane will get there earlier. We'll get into later rain will come in suddenly, something will show up. We had no idea was going to be there and our before. And so we'll try to keep people updated as best we can because it does become real. The, the aviation city of the world for a week. And I it's fun. It's exciting, sometimes exasperated all of those things involved in one, but you know, there's nothing else like it antastic. It's going to be a great week. Very exciting Hillel. We're going to are you going to bring your recorder with you? How L maybe get a few observations from folks. Yeah. That's actually precisely what I plan on doing. There's my, my bent on things is innovation and entrepreneurship. So since there's so many other people out there at Oshkosh, interviewing planes and pilots, and so on. I'm I'm going to take a little bit of a different approach and spent a lot of time in innovation area in the area. I'm glad to hear about the special area on urban transportation because that's certainly a hotbed of innovation and entrepreneurship right now. So most of what I'm going to be looking for on the business side of things. Whether they're startups or established businesses, there's certainly a lot been Oshkosh's will be by fifth year and fifth year in a row also that I've come. So I've come to learn that there's plenty of innovation and entrepreneurship happening at Oshkosh, sometimes when I'm micro-scale as well as the obviously mega-scale, so one of the questions that I was going to ask dick is if we have if you went through a lot of really great material and ideas on the first time a rapper visitors for pokes that have been there saying the recent past last one to three years. Are there any major changes other than the note them and things for pilots, but as far as the, the grounds of the organization or the exhibits, some of the bigger changes that are going to introduce this year? Yeah. Some of the things we'd like to pass along on that, first of all people might be familiar with the international federal pavilion, where a lot of the agencies get together. Everybody from NTSB to the forest service and so forth have been there for a lot of years right along the flight line. Well, that building was showing its age and so that building is no more. And so the international federal pavilion is moving over into exhibit hanger D, which is by the fly market over by the red barn store in the camp ground that area, and they're taking up almost half of exhibit hanger, d this year, and they will be in there. So if you're looking for your friends from some of the federal agencies head over their head toward the southwest, you'll see there now in the spot where the federal pavilion was we are taking all of the home built exhibitors, who were farther to the north going toward Warbirds moving them into that area. And one reason why we did that because we're getting so many home builds that we need. More parking for home builds. And you know, this year we have everybody from some of Burt rutan's aircraft designed aircraft coming in to the venture Cup to we've invited every single flying so playing that we could find that came to the event in nineteen seventy to come to ask us this year, and we, we've got at least three dozen of them confirmed. We're hoping for more than forty eventually that will be back at Oshkosh after fifty years, and some have been coming every year. Some of them haven't been here since nineteen seventy. So that'll be exciting. So you'll see a whole new pavilion, a whole new home builders and review type area in that area. Another major thing that we've been working on is getting to the point where if somebody flies, the Oshkosh, and you may have flown three hours or ten hours or however couple of days to get the Oscar only to get here and finally your parking areas full and you end up setting down and. Appleton or found a whack for a couple of days. Well, we're expanding the aircraft parking and camping to the south. Now, some of the folks who've come in before said I feel like I'm in Ponto Laco ready at this point. But well it's we have expanded it to the south. We've put in some of the amenities. The south call at the southern end of the south forty, I guess, if you want to call it that and making more room to park airplanes in trying to get to the point if somebody's flying to Oshkosh, we will make every effort to welcome them to us kosh that you won't be diverted. So we're working on that as well to do some of that. So you'll see more aircraft parking almost to the southern limit of the airport the airport fence all the way to the south end. And so that's going to be expanded as well. So those are appeal of the things on the grounds that you'll see this year, they're doing more renovations and upgrades in the vintage area. So if you'd like seeing some of the vintage airplanes you've seen some. Growth there over the past five years, that is going to continue once again. So, you know, all of these areas, take them look for where can we improve working, we add some things, and do some of the, the upgrades that we'd like to do? And those are a few of the spots that come to mind meeting. All right. Well, very good. Thanks, dick for coming on the show. Really appreciate it. I think again, it's kind of another exciting year here venture, and we're, we're all looking forward to it, and we shoot the great success. And I'm sure everybody's going to have a terrific time. Thanks again. Well, thanks so much appreciate the time and just want to tell everybody read the note them lie safe. We look forward to seeing you on the flight line just a little bit. I just want to kind of point out one thing, which is if you've never been to Oshkosh. I'm sure you have come up with dozens of excuses for not going, what I say to that is just go. You you've got to go to Oshkosh. I always tell everybody that Oshkosh is in this, I think is really true. It's one of the few things in life that just vastly exceeds expectations, and I remember as a teenager, reading four page spread of pictures and flying magazines like oh, yeah. This is kind of interesting, and then you get your you get there and you're like, oh my gosh, this is wild. This is so big and huge in virtually every dimension. I mean, the thing's spectacular about Oshkosh is at brings the best of everything. There is an aviation all together in one place in one time. And yet, it's spread out far enough that it doesn't feel like you're walking down Fifth Avenue. New york. It's not it's not super crowded like going to a rock concert or something like that. So cautious. Just an amazing experience is really, really enjoyable, so all I can say anybody who's kind of on the fence thinking. Well, yeah, kinda thought about it. Just do it. You know, by the plane tickets if you want you don't have to fly yourself in for years, I would get plane tickets fly into Chicago. Go get a rental car, and I've actually bring my camping gear and a separate duffel bag. I had a tent and a folding cut, you know, so it's inexpensive in the easy and fun just to camp on the field as I've gotten older, I tend to get in a motel rooms or a little bit more comfortable. I mean it's just there are so many different ways to do it just figure out what way is going to work for you and do it. Yeah. Slight paging Mets flight that I know. I know. And I wasn't I wasn't talking directly to max. I'm talking to. People have been trying to give me they got me to go to sun and fun, does this year. And, and that, that was amazing. I will I probably not to us gosh this year, but definitely next year guaranteed. Somebody tell rob Mark, he'll be shocked. But guarantee your you heard it here, folks. That's right. Make your plans now. So, but this one's coming up quick July twenty second through twenty eighth. Twenty nineteen of course. So, so you're going to when you go max your, your typically in a room and then you have the rental car to commute in each day to the vets, would I have done in recent years? But there are all kinds of ways to do with or as I recall a fleet of, you know, buses that run to different locations. For example, the can't remember the name of the university, but it's, you know, university. Okay. That was my guess. All right. Good. So they have. You know, hundreds of rooms available, and I believe they're shuttles and go back and forth from there. So the nice thing about the website that he has for ventures you can click on housing and you just find, you know, hundreds of options most likely, you know, terms of places where you can stay, but I would say that's the critical path, you know, you want to book, your housing arrangement now and then figure out, you know all the rest of the detail. So figure out your housing, first and then build everything around that three. Yeah. I like to piggyback on what maxa saying that the experience like perfectly said is seeds all of your expectations. But also on the of surprising ways I camp out on the north forty and they have set up these kiosks for electrical power for charging your devices, or whatever you might need to electric city for, but they don't have like hookups like they do on the camp shoulder side where you can actually bring an RV and in other things that actually hook up the power and water, and so on. But in the north forty it's, it's real camping. It's under the wing. Camping. And as far as your amenities are concerned. Plus, they do have running water and showers and toilets in outhouses, or bath thousands. If you wanna call it that on the perimeter in certain places. But otherwise, when you're at your tent, you don't have power, you don't have water, but they've set up for, you know, given the age that we're in they've set up these kiosks in many, many places usually near the bath house, and then some near the stores and so on for powering devices over night or during the day and you, you where else can you this day and age leave a portable charger, or your ipad or your phone just sitting there charging? And nobody does anything the worst thing that's ever happened. Any of my devices left there has been somebody has moved it around a little bit to accommodate like an extra large device that they supplied a multi outlet chargers? Everybody else could plug into, you know, that's the most devastating thing that happened to my devices. Someone took it. Out and plugged, it into something bigger. Yeah. It's just incredible. Yeah. It's a it's an amazing community. All right. Let's do a little bit of what's up with the geeks, max trescott. What have you been? You've been flying, of course. But what's going on? Of course while I was just at AO PA's Livermore original fly in this past weekend. Great crowds. I heard that they had more folks Preregister for the workshops that it any of the, the other flights that they've had no surprise liberal Moore's next to the San Francisco Bay area, so easy access. No bad weather to prevent people from flying or driving in. So it was really, really fun. Two days and I am now just off of that headed out to Chicago so on Wednesday evening, June. The twenty six I will be presenting for the Chicago executive Pilots Association meeting, and be doing two things. One of could be giving my presentation on night-flying safety. What you're see if I didn't teach you. And then I'll also be hosting the IMC club meeting, which I believe is actually an affiliate of EA. And we'll be talking about particular Russ scenario there. A an equipment failure scenario flying an eye afar. Kind of facilitate the discussion with Goshen. What would you do in this circumstance? So we doing that on Wednesday evening, and then on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, I'll be teaching at the Cirrus pilot proficiency program at the Powell walkie airport. So that's get me close to Oshkosh but not quite all the way here. So it'll be fun for time I've done Chicago. So looking forward to seeing people, they're great in hill, what have you been up to. So as a matter of fact this past weekend, I went on to eat at the airport dot com, and I picked a place that I'd never been to based on the fact that it was in your map on your map, and there was a couple of places listed there. So we flew in our Cherokee, my daughter, my older daughter, and I flew down to the Warrenton Faulk, your county, regional airport in Faulk, your county Virginia, which is just south and west of Dulles, and we just. One of the places that was listed was a dairy which has its own ice cream store, and so there, everything was enlisted in the at the airport, including the fact that the F B O has a crew car. So I called them up the day before I said, how often is your crew car to you not available? And he said, it's well, it's as usual first-come-first-serve, but we don't really have anything scheduled, so take your chances, so we did the crew car was available, and we drove out down to a little town called Remington, and there was a deli in Remington. So I added that Delhi to eat at the airport, because it was just a stone's throw away from the from the ice cream store which was our main objective. So, so next time anybody is flying around looking for a place to eat eat at the airport is your way to place to go. But if you happen to be going to warrant, and there's go grab yourself a sandwich at the deli and on your way back to the airport pickup, a milkshake or an ice cream at the move through. Dairy, and it was a great great, great, California, southern or northern California weather kinda day on Saturday out here, just you took off and you didn't have to get up more than a couple thousand feet, and you could see the Appalachians in, you know, stretching north to south in every direction from his far east as the Chesapeake Bay. It was beautiful. And so that's what that, that was like the big thing that we were up to this recently aviation related. So it was just a great day. My daughter jumped up and gave me a big hug as we land, or after we got out of the plane, of course. So she had a great time, and there's a fun experience with air traffic control that will probably provide feedback to our friends at opposing basis. There was funny little snippet. I'll share here because some people are just did that was cleared from a point south west of dollars to go direct to my home airport, which is east of Baltimore. Well, there's this inconvenient thing between here, and there is this the flight restricted zone over that. District of Columbia, and I said called up air traffic control, and I said, I'd like to clarify that, that clearance the four thousand five hundred through the class Bravo direct to Martin state in the guys. Oh, good call. Thank you. Let's why don't you fly zero one zero for the time being? And I was like, okay. Yeah. That, that's a little more reasonable. That was a humorous. But good lesson that everybody's gonna look out for each other air traffic, controllers pilots to look out for each other. I could have easily just okay. Sure, turned wrecked my airport and gotten you know brought down by a couple of F16.'s that wouldn't have made our day. So what would have made my day? I think it would've made great video if you had the cameras, and we would love to have seen that you next time. Okay. And I actually similarly used either the airport dot com last week, I was driving from Hartford to. Boyer town Pennsylvania, and I looked at the map and I, I saw that sky manor airport in, in New Jersey just across the, the river, there, the border from Pennsylvania has a cafe sky, Kathy. So I said, okay. It's not too far off the highway stop there for lunch. And is a is high pulled in the parking lot was packed. I mean it's like all these there must be some kind of big meeting or something, or there must be some other some other company on the grounds that he's real employees. There's no they were all in skycam Fe. It was all the locals in their for lunch. They had the place packed, so had myself a great great lunch at sky cafe. And then, then kind of the interesting part of it was that the, the nab system to get me to the rest of the way I might trip didn't take me back to the to the interstate, but it took me on back, roads, the rest of the way which was only about like thirty more miles I guess, and I got to see some beautiful countryside. Some nice little Pennsylvania towns, that, you know, I would never have seen I had been on the interstate. The hallway? So it was kind of kind of nice to do that, too. But yeah, eat at the airport dot com. And of course, it, I mean, this is crowd sourced data. So besides asking you to make sure that your airport or an airport that you run across that has an eating establishment, make sure that it's in there. But if you see some changes, something's gone out of business, or it's got a new name, or there's some, you know, significant change to the eating establishment at, at the airport dot com. There's also the form you can use to submit corrections. And we, we rely on the, you know, the quality of the data that everybody provides. So thanks advance for doing that. And I have to submissions descendant because just in the past week, I've gotten new information about the two different local airports with you eateries and changes and status. And so on one on mention which is Hollister California. Longtime had a restaurant nearby closed, and I just met with a gentleman. Who's the head of either the airport association or the airport commission, and he said, hey, restaurants back in service. Again, so good news. Very good. All right. Let's wrap this one up. We want to thank our guest, dick Penske director of communications for the EA experimental aircraft association, there at EA dot org. And you can learn all about air venture Chicago twenty nineteen. They're coming up, July twenty second through twenty eighth as always, you can find us at airplane, geeks dot com. Show notes for this episode. We'll be airplane, geeks dot com slash five five eight. If you wanna raise an Email that's the geeks at airplane, geeks dot com. Let's see where can folks find us online in mex- trescott. Let's start with you. All the usual places. Anything related to the words, aviation news talk, you can find the podcast at any place. You look for a podcast you can go to aviation news talk dot com. Click on contact at the top of the page, send me an Email, also at the top of the page, you can find listener questions. So you can send listener question. And we answer questions on the show, which has been mostly for generally be Asian pilots and student pilot. So if you're not familiar with aviation news talk, check it out. Great and hill. Where do you make noise online? I make noise that on Twitter, that's hill, spelled H I one one e one clever. I know. And when I'm not doing that. I'm often it lurking in the bathroom of whatever hotel, captain. Jeff is happens to be in because I also run their slack team for the airline pilot guy. So if you're also a listener of ill. Appellate guy, you know, pretty much everything you need to know ready. And if you don't get listen to airline pilot and you're looking around for more aviation related podcasts, this is certainly one, you don't want to give up on so airline pilot dies. Well, so he can find me in on Twitter mostly and, and some sometimes occasionally in Cup just bathroom. Don't have no idea how that started. But that's, that's the only thing right? I, I'm not even going to ask. But, but thank you. Thank you for that. Thanks for joining us this episode. Really appreciate absolute. Thanks for having me really excited to represent the airline starry. It's hard this one again. I'm really excited to represent the airplane geeks podcast at air venture this coming summer and it's a it's a great opportunity last year. I was kicking myself for not having media credentials because I just wanted to interview, so many different organizations, and I did come up with two that I was able to pull off. But when you don't have the media credential, people kind of look at you funny, as why do you have a microphone in my face? So this year, I'm hoping that'll be avoided, especially when you're gonna ply people with airplane geeks. Pins and t shirts. All right. And I max fight you can find me on linked in on Twitter at max flight. Also with David Vanderhoek each week at the UNLV, digest dot com. I'm talking about unmanned aircraft in aviation. Also with Mary, Kirby at the sex, podcast dot com, as I mentioned, our, we, we spoke with John, Walton this week's episode of the packs, podcast, see that'll be episode. Sixty seven John Walden, who was at the Paris air show in has some really, really insightful observations. So if you want more on the Paris air show, listen to that or out tro, music is, by Bruno Massoni. You can find more of his great stuff at Bruno Masan dot com. So please join us again next week as we talk aviation on the airplane geeks podcast by rybody keep the blue side up. Thanks for listening.