February 17: Terms of internment


Hi I'm Rosemarie. Barton Ella mean mood and we are. The hosts of party lines launched his podcast to help you make sense of the twenty nine thousand nine federal election. But here's the thing you liked us. You'll like to so much that we're coming back. We will drop a new episode every Thursday and we will talk about the biggest political stories of the week. It will be smart and fun party lines and get it wherever you get your podcast from because talking politics should be for every including you and me and all of us this is a CBC podcast. Hello I'm Carol off and I'm Ali. Hassan this is as it happens. The podcast edition tonight terms of internment a leaked document reveals disturbing new details about Muslims being held in Chinese detention camps including who they are and why they're government loft them away wrong baby on board to Newfoundland. Men are suing after discovering. They were switched at birth nearly sixty years ago and that's inspired our guests to finally tell her story of being given the wrong baby at the same hospital stringing him. Along when an American Violin teacher realizes her in China is stuck inside because of the corona virus outbreak. She steps up his skype lessons to keep him occupied real banal people in Ottawa. Say a new edition being built onto the shadow. Loria could ruin the view of the Rideau Canal. Now UNESCO is sending signals. It might cost the Ottawa waterway. Its status as a world heritage site. Green Eating and Edmund restaurant isn't as counting calories. It's also counting the carbon emissions that go into creating each meal and literary buzz an eleven year old girls. Passion for insects used to get bullied than it. Got Her book deal tonight. She joins Carol in Studio to explain. Why bugs don't bug her but insults sting as it happens. The Monday edition radio that loves to relax with a little might reading in China's Xinjiang province wearing a thick beard or visiting the wrong website. Could land you in an internment camp. That's what a new set of leaked documents appeared to show. They were leaked to the BBC and Associated Press and they offer a shocking window into the fate of Wieger. Muslims detained in China. The documents are essentially a database profiling. Three hundred and eleven people from one county Incheon. Jiang province is a spreadsheet that shows how often people pray how they dress and who they contact. Adrian's ends is a senior fellow in China studies at the victims of Communism Memorial Foundation. And he's been poring over these documents. We reached him in Saint. Paul Minnesota Mr says you know we have many sources telling us about these human rights abuses against leaguers in China. What does this latest leaked document? Tallus that we didn't know the slater's documents Gives US great detail about the fate of hundreds of individuals it's except reasons why they were put into internment camps and why data being kept out while might be released. The document clearly shows at what Beijing is doing is not in any way a fight against terror. It's a witch hunt against any slightest sign of religiosity. It's interning people for having grown a beard. Several years ago it's turning people fall having prayed before meals or going to a mosque and some of. It's not even having done anything. Just being untrustworthy. Yes the arbitrary. Nature of the detentions is notable. The government is distrusting these ethnic groups and in order to do something about them to bring them on the long-term control it has introduced. General categories of suspicion such asked the Labor untrustworthy person. Ones are an linked to anything abroad violating birth control policies. And just the one child policy if people fall into these categories of this is the reasons for taking them away. What what's happening to them? By virtue of these these accusations in the camps they learned that they have to stay away from even the slightest form of religion. People who have been allowed by the government to two of these camps and to to speak detainees found out that they'd and said I'm no longer Muslim. I no longer believe in Islam. I no longer pray. Basically forced to abstain from even the slightest trace of even superficial Religiosity and at what point do any of these people get released from these camps from this internment people have to be in reeducation camps for at least one year no matter what after one year people can be released? If their performance is up to par they have to have confessed. And repented does a lot of confession and repentance language in these verdicts but not only dad government very closely monitors their families if the family continues to exhibit a quote unquote dense atmosphere. Or if they don't follow local regulations such as attending mandatory flag-raising ceremony every morning and the people that have to remain reeducation camps. How difficult is it to actually meet these demands? That is to get out when so many of the cases are people who it's not them it's family members. It's it's a female member of the family. Were avail once. How can you demand it? Summon reformed for things that did not even doing people. That are heavily intimidated. There have been starved. Some of them have been tortured. They have been through a terrible experiences. And I never WANNA go back. This must be a tremendous risk. That people are taking to get these documents into the hands of the foreign media. What what do you know about it? The greatest risk would have been taken by the person who leaked them out of Xinjiang. It is almost certainly would have to have been a government official possibly a weaker government officials because one hunt Chinese would not be likely to risk but then the whistleblowers abroad who received a document and pasta it onto the media also received threats Ozzy Abdulah hip in Holland. Who gave me and to many media outlets document. She had received death threats anonymously. What do you think motivates them to take that risk? What are they seeing or learning? That makes them willing to do that. The wego seeing the destruction of their own people in front of day is and they just cannot bear it. I mean this is cultural genocide on an unprecedented scale. It's basically the largest incarceration of an ethnic religious minority. Since the Holocaust people absolutely desperate you cannot talk to any excess weaker with does not have a large number of family members in one of these camps coup is desperate to find out anything about the loved ones. It's not like the world doesn't know that this is happening to these hundreds of thousands of workers. How do you think the international community should be responding to this kind of information that keeps coming out about the the international community and particularly the Muslim nations should unanimously rise up and make strong statements and let the strong statements be followed up with action be at resolutions at the United Nations? Human Rights Council targeted economic sanctions sanctions on bilateral coach would exchange. How are you GONNA do? Kutcher exchange with China China's interning millions of his ethnic minorities. Do you think to some extent the the issue of the Corona viruses overshadowing the plight of weaker Muslims in China. Yes no it has captured the news. It has put China in the spotlight but it also highlights the risk that the virus poses to the region of Xinjiang. Many people are in internment camps with terrible conditions. Dangerous did rise of that but also seeing some of the practices that China has pioneered the ancient young among the weeks of domestic security of facial recognition. Lot of these mechanisms are now being used in eastern China in Beijing Wuhan and Shanghai in order to fight the war on the virus in order to lockdown communities there so in some sense the Han Chinese majority is now in a small degree experiencing some of the draconic measures that are commonplace in this sense. We'll leave it there and I appreciate speaking with you tonight. Thank you thank you. Bye-bye Adrian sense is a senior fellow in China studies at the victims of Communism Memorial Foundation and we reached him in Saint Paul Minnesota for the past six months. Anthea CRESTON has made a weekly skype call from Oregon to a teenager in Chengdu China. Miss Creston is a world renowned violinist and fourteen year old. Kevin Tang is pupil but since the corona virus has swept through China Kevin and millions of others in the country are essentially under lockdown with a student who suddenly had a lot of time on his mistrust and decided to put him to work upping their lessons from weekly. Tha Daily and offering the lessons free of charge. Here is Kevin Performing for his teacher after long hours of practice and the Creston has been helping him with that piece. We reached her in. Corvallis Oregon. Anthea what piece of Music. Are We hearing your student? Kevin play in that clip. That's a law symphony. Spaniel the beginning of the second page of the first movement. It's where it can of emerges from anger into kind of a beautiful love story. You're already giving Kevin Weekly lessons on skype. How did you learn that? Perhaps Kevin Situation was had altered. Well he didn't mention anything to me but when I was giving him his lesson I think was February. Second I noticed some things were just a little bit different. He escapes me from his living room. Or somehow the Family Room. It's usually extremely tidy but it had There was a little bit messy. Some things were a little bit funny. He was also wearing his winter coat and rubbing his hands a lot. His hair looks slightly less teenager. Funky he kind of has A. He has a great attitude. Great teenager attitude. So he's physically looked a little strange and also he's normally extremely well prepared. I think these extra lessons are a big big part of their family. It's a financial commitment for them to have an extra have a weekly lesson with an American teacher on top of their Chinese professor so usually his extremely well prepared and he seemed lethargic. He wasn't making jokes. He wasn't interacting and From all those things combined eight thought something was quite different with him now. Did you figure it out immediately that he might be part of the lockdown part of the quarantine that so many people in China were going through? It did occur to me right away although I had been doing research online for Chengdu which is a good thousand kilometers away from Wuhan. I hadn't found anything. Nothing showing up on the Guardian or New York Times and when I have been searching for it I couldn't find any mention of Chengdu and so I thought everything was okay. I thought he was far enough away but I asked him if he was okay. You said he was cold and then I said Howard lessons going. He said I'm not having lessons. I'm not at school I said. Are you able to play with your friends in the courtyard says no? We can't go outside and I said. Do you have enough to eat any said well when we run out of food someone has to go out there. The reference of him wearing a coat. What we have learned is that people have an idea that the virus say the corona virus might travels through the pipes of their buildings so they're shutting off their heat and so well you there you were. You know thousands of miles away. What did you? What did you figure could do to help him? The first thing I try to do is maintain a professional relationship with him. I don't WanNa put him in any kind of dangerous. I didn't. I'd never set the word virus. I we never talk about the government. We never talk about those kinds of things. It's hard to tell what is safe and what's not safe there so extra careful that you're right from everything we've heard you have to be really careful because he can't really say much county. No I mean I don't know what they can see and they can't see or hear so. I'm always super careful with that. So I felt like I had enough information from him and then after doing more research online. I still didn't find any information and I talked to my husband. I was really really worried and I said I don't think he's doing well. Then I said what happens if I propose to him his dad that you know while he's inside that we have a special kind of project if I can give him a specific assignment every day very difficult technical exercise and then also a new page of this concerto so I thought this concerto is the perfect thing I usually would take a fourteen year old maybe a year to learn this concerto and I said to him. Why don't we learn it in twenty days and so did did it work? Did your idea of giving daily lessons free of charge. Get him out of his lethargy well it took him in his dad a day to decide to do it. I'm sure that they as I don't want to add stress to his life so I'm sure they had to think about that and I said that we could do it in a way. That stress-free that it's like a fun project and I noticed. After three or four days he started like emojis started to appear again in our chat that he was smiling still wearing his coat and he jumps up and down all but I think he's pretty cold there but that you can even hear from that recording. His passion level is is great and interestingly enough in the last three or four days I think his father is happier. I mean I can imagine the stress that his parents are under. His mother works for a hospital for supply so she's apparently going all around. Do desperately looking for masks and medical safety equipment for the the hospital people so it's a stress for them to have her go out and do that and also for her to come back. I mean it's A. It's a double edged sword. I understand that there are others you. There's a connection with some other music students in China who you are helping to connect with teachers in the United States might be able to help. Yes yes actually. There is a New York Times article and since that time a bunch of my friends and former teachers who are all professors wonderful universities in from Berlin to Brazil and throughout the states and far flung places have contacted me and said they'd be happy to help out as well and so I've been able to pair some people up actually friends of Kevin's because right now I can't get through to any of the music schools when I write to them things bounce back so just through. Kevin specifically in through his network of friends. I am getting some videos from those people date for safe to speak some English although I have a bunch of friends who speak Chinese so I'm able to also put people together who don't have English language so but I'm just trying to put some really simple parameters of like the the amount of work and how it has to be optimistic as more of like a practice buddy or someone you would meet at the gym and so my sister has a student Jason. My husband has a student and I'm slowly pairing people up. I would love to make it more broad but I just have no access to to the schools or anything. Well good work on your part. And that's great that some kids will be able to have a connection with the outside and music makes a difference doesn't it I think it does. Thanks for telling the story. Thank you so much. Have a great day you too. And the CRESTON is a violinist based in Corvallis Oregon not is where we reached her Sofia. Spencer just turned eleven and she's already got a published book under her belt. The bug girl. A true story is well. Just that is the true story of Sofia's love of all things creepy crawly and how it has affected her short life in big and sometimes difficult ways. Sophia wrote the book with Margaret Margaret McNamara. And it came out last week today. She and her mom Nicole. Spencer joined Caroline Studio to talk about the buzz. It's generating severe welcome to the as it happens studio. Thank you and your Mom Nico. Welcome as well. Thank you for having us. Thank you both coming in Okay severe have to start with the million dollar question. Why do you love bugs? So much Well I get asked that a lot and I think it's mainly because they have their own ecosystem like they've made their own world. There are many universe but I mean Nobo- I know you you love bugs and you. The rule is in your house. You're not allowed to kill bugs but I would but bugs that sting and bite Now we still don't kill them. We have a net and will catch them and I'll grab them. Just let them outside. I WanNa ask you need also having a house with a no kill bugs rule. What's at like Detroit Manage It's not too bad. There's only been a few times where I've covered the bug with the net for her to take the next day and the next morning when we wake up. The bug is gone But I'm not going to discourage her from you know heard. The rule is no killing bucks. They're important so I manage it. It's okay this story of the bug girl and your story. Sufi begins with the first time you fell in love with an insect. Can you tell us that story Well when I was two and a half I went to a Butterfly Conservatory Niagara Falls which is a zoo. That's just for butterflies on as soon as I walked in there blue butterfly pushed on my shoulder and it was just crying all over my face and it didn't leave the entire time I was layer was just on me and when I left 'cause YOU CAN'T TAKE. Comb exotic butterflies. The guard had to Take it off of me because again. You can't take home exotic butterflies so when you when did you realize your your daughter had a really special connection with insects after we left the conservatory. She asked if she could get bug net so she tried to catch some bucks. So it pretty much spiraled after that where I was buying containers Annette and magnifying glasses. In my life revolved around Google for a really long time because If she found a bug outside she'd worn a know about the bug. Severe when you start going to kindergarten you at first you had classmates who that you could share your at your level bugs with. How did they respond in school? Well when I was in kindergarten they they loved it like save founded bug. They could be like Sophia. What spock and I would ag- usually no it was And they responded really well and I still know some of the kids from kindergarten. And they're like. I can't believe children did that. Like it's cool that you're both folk you would you referring to is what happened when you switched schools. I think in grade one and you had a very different experience. What happened with the kids there? Well the kids at my newer school They didn't like the fact that I was different so they would tease me. They would believe me if I would bring a bug in from home they would like knock off my shoulder and kill it so I felt just really upset really sad and you know beat down and so at one point you decided that you just had to give up a bit on the Bug. Your bug Interest right is things up what happened. What did you do? Um Y started to pack up all my bucks for my bug nats. I let all the bugs I were at home. I left him go. I just gave out because you know I wind friends if I could have friends but not how do my passion than I was ready to give that up and did that help. Did the did the kids. They say oh they stop bullying. You become friends with you No not really. They knew still liked bugs. They just they knew that I liked bugs but they knew I was just faking. So they still didn't like me Nicole for you for being a mom and to see the effect this had on her in school. What what affected that have on you? When you see your child. Side and thinking will stop leaking. Something maybe L. have friends. It's heartbreaking to see your kid go through something like that and then you get really angry and I just was upset. I didn't WANNA see her. Give something that she had loved for so long and was so excited about so. You had an idea for what to do what did you. What did you think might work I thought if I thought outside the box and wrote a letter to the site of Kindo we could maybe get a pen pal for her and it went viral and we had an amazing outpouring of support from across the world and it was just incredible to see so many people reach were surveyed. Did you think when your mom wrote the letter to the entomologist the society? Did you think that the you'd get much responded? Where did you think yeah mom that might work or did you? Were you Kinda doubtful about that She didn't telling she's doing it. She didn't want to get my hopes up. And then nothing was respondent. So yeah she didn't tell me and then wanted to see happen. I'm Welsh told me that she Asked them you know it wouldn't viral and that there's so so many people that liked bugs in that cat and that told me I should keep doing what I love from all around the world right. This was women from the that. We're studying bugs in the Amazon writing emails to us in telling her that you know. They had had similar experiences growing up that they had been bullied for their love of insects and they didn't let it stop them so affected that having. What did you tell you the other kids at school? Did they know that you were becoming a kind of star Well I when this happened. I was in a different school. I changed schools. I again after a grade. One and The kids there are a lot nicer. Day encouraged me a lot a lot better. And then yeah we started took you make. The Buck became the bug girl. A true story which is is a beautiful book. What do you think of it when you when you saw the whole book put together like that when I first read it? I thought it was just an amazing book. I thought it was just so cool. It really does express like this story really really well so I tested your book on the weekend with my granddaughters and they love your book and but they had some questions for you. They wanted to know my granddaughter. Chloe WHO's almost eight. She wanted to know what feelings you had when you first had that butterfly. Land on you Their first reaction I had was like this is really cool. Like it's not leaving. It's on me. It's not leaving me and I thought it was really really cool and I was very surprised that the fact that as the only one the whole conservatory stain on and then Clara. Who is almost six wants to know but one fact you have on the book you said that there are bugs in Antarctica. I yeah that's impossible. It's so cold there nope okay. I'll tell Clara that's the case and they both had one last question for you. What do you WanNa be when you grow up? I'm well I'd like to be in Tamala just I'd like to grow up to study bugs and different environments. So congratulations on your beautiful book. Thank you and you call. Thank you so much for bringing Sophia into talk to us. Thank you so much for having us. It was a pleasure. Sophia Spencer Co wrote the bug girl with Margaret McNamara. It's illustrated by the French DUAL CASCO IT and published by Penguin Random House. Sophia joined Carol in our Toronto Studio with her. Mom Nicole Spencer and she's right by the way about that Antarctic bug. We looked it up. It's a message. Hi I'm Gary Barden elamine Abdel Mahmoud and we are the hosts of party lines. We launched podcast to help you make sense of the twenty nine thousand nine federal election. But here's the thing you liked us. You liked so much that we're coming back. We will drop a new episode every Thursday and we will talk about the biggest political stories of the week. It will be smart and fun party lines and get it wherever you get your podcast from because talking politics should be forever including you and me and all of us. Clarence hines and Craig. Avery were switched at birth in the nineteen sixties at a small hospital income by chance. Newfoundland and Labrador. The two men are now in their mid fifties. They've never met their birth parents now. They're suing the regional health authority. Their story is shocking but it may not be the only mix up that happened at the hospital's maternity ward that year. A Newfoundland woman is now speaking out about what happened to her. We reached Muriel. Stringer in Hodge's cove Newfoundland Mariel. I know you're nineteen years old back in nineteen sixty two when you gave birth to your son at Wallin cottage hospital. How many days old was he when you got to take them home three days old but in the car when I looked at me looked a bit different but mom said Oh no that's probably the diplomacy is Suet what now? You're in the car going home from come by chance. Heading back to Hodge's cove. Is that right? And so what differences were there that made you wonder if this was really? Your little boy can't well. He is knows different canceled on. I got a biggish knows but I didn't ask myself that just in the hostile and gave them to mom now and you wouldn't think that something would go wrong there. You'd think that you had your baby right. I didn't think it could happen. What happened when you got home where we sat on? I'm still Admin AMS and I was looking at her and she said No. He's not your baby. How did your mom no? It wasn't your baby because his name was on the bracelet he had on his arm. What was the name the bracelet baby boy Adams? Not your baby boy can't was it. No how did you react when you saw that scare for and surprised but didn't know what we were going to do. Everything was going through and so I went to the post office and phoned up and said look we got around baby. She said bring the baby up here but I think she said was the mother. No our own own baby but then I said at the hospital is so anyway up. They went announced here. I guess the word got around in the hostile because mother was on the steps and said she was there waiting on the steps. The mother Baby Adam is so she knew her baby was missing. Yes she must have been for going to bring him back or cut you know where was baby. Kent. It was still in the hospital. What happened was that they put the babies in the wrong cribs and they just looked at the name that was unequivocal daddy and they adams baby was only had just been born. He wasn't more than a day. Is that right? That's right. You're on my gosh. The mother must have been frantic. See it we've been worried too because on the infant baby take them on a long bumpy overall like that could been in action or anything right. This is going through her mind. Okay so then. They straightened it out. Yes got up to the hospital and changed babies and came home at Lea- ever editor. Okay happily what were you angry at them for? What had happened? We were so the bit that we're nurse. Didn't she know her own baby? Be Live to angriest thing that was said between any of the straight didn't take the wrong baby. You're given the wrong baby that's right. Yeah now this is way back in nineteen sixty two but this summer there. The story came out of these two. Men Clarence hines Craig. Avery were born in the same hospital and realized just by chance. Come by chance as well named. Isn't it that they? They had been switched at birth in the same year. We'll see we found at the time back but they didn't find out about this a couple of years ago. It was a really disgusting story when came out because these two men that were really sad not to. They had good lives but they had never got to know their parents. It's true that's true. Yeah this that's the worst. That was a really bad mistake. That was well. Now what did you think when you heard their story knowing what had happened to you in the same year with only a few months difference? Well pity them like everything and glad that we got our baby. You know it turned right for us. Is this raise questions for you about what might have been going on at that. Hospital back in nineteen sixty two. When when your baby kit was born? My daughter wouldn't share it. Vote this the other day. She spun that got mad about a semi. There was something going on back then then I wonder if the wolves you know but that back way back then I was too busy having family and babies out around meal so late that didn't come the Mo and you know how many more did you have. After Kent led six. Children can sick former babies after Kent now. Did you start to wonder though when you're talking to your daughter about that? Maybe some other there other instances of the same thing yes I did and the and the air there was somebody else around here. I happen to to another story of somebody else who had gave birth in the come by chance hospital. Who got a switch? It's okay well. That sounds serious did I can't remember. They were the two men clearance signs and Craig. Avery are suing the health authority for what happened now that they've found out but the health authority says it's not for what happened that hospital because that's doesn't exist anymore. It's all part of a new a new system. What would what would you want them to know about what it was like for you before you got your baby back. I can understand how they feel that it was. It only happened to me few hours so they must have been really really mad and couldn't do anything about both parents were deceased and and they didn't know anything about it. Well at least can't got back to the right family then at least you go baby back. Oh yes. There's no no problem. No because he looks just like his father Mary. I really appreciate speaking with you. Thank you thank you take care. Memorial stringer was a young mother in one thousand nine hundred two and she says she was given the wrong baby by wall wooden cottage hospital in come by chance Newfoundland. We reached Miss Stringer in Hodge's cove Newfoundland earlier we told you about. Clarence hines and Craig Avery. Two men who were switched at birth in the nineteen sixties at the same hospital. The two men never got to meet their birth parents now. They are suing the provincial government for negligence. Last month Mr Avery spoke with. Cbc's the current about what happened fifty years ago and how that makes up his life upside down. Well when you find out that You have siblings that you grew up with and then all of a sudden you've got siblings. That's in another family. And now you find that you got different parents and then you find it in your parents that you should have gone up at passed on and you never got to meet them. And you didn't grow up all your siblings. It was crazy. It was heartbreaking heart. Ready about how hard is that knowing. I mean both both sets of parents died before any of this was discovered. How hard is that for you Craig? Knowing that that you didn't get to talk to the people who are truly your birth mother father before before they passed well when I went to the grave so he and I stood in front of their headstones. Look at stones knowing as close as they do you ever. GonNa get it. It tore me and pizzas. And it's still really hard for you now it'll be our at perver- that was Craig Avery. Speaking with the current host Matt Galloway in January mystery. Clarence hines were switched at birth fifty eight years ago income by chance Newfoundland when police raided the Australian public broadcasters newsroom in Sydney last year some journalists called it media intimidation today a federal court in that country dismissed. Abc's intrusion complaint and said the raid was legal police raided the ABC offices after journalists published a series of articles called the Afghan files. They were based on classified military documents. David MacBride leak those documents to ABC. He's a former military lawyer with the Australian Armed Forces and here. He is speaking to Carol in June. Mister McBride did you ever think you'd see a day when the Australian Federal Police would raid? Australia's public broadcaster. Times are changing side. What did they see what the police take from ABC? Well that's a good question. It was an unusual very modern kind of warrant. Where did they had the rights access computers and delete things on the cell? I guess that says something interesting in that they weren't trying to gather evidence for a court case rob. They were trying to leach things which they didn't want people to read. They had the right to do that. And I think that was probably the real purpose was not deceased anything but to a rice things not what they did with the hundreds of documents that you provided was they made a series called the Afghan files which has some quite shocking allegations. Can you tell us what has been reported at this point? The key things they reported on was to say sometime in Afghanistan one special forces patrols in the mountains head shot a shepherd boy by the stikes thinking he was Taliban and they didn't reported the Afghan falls were mainly reports of investigated by independent Australian investigators who by lodge said. This is an unfortunate incident. However there's no cause for criminal charges. What either late was the biggest story was the fact that the leadership the generals and I believe also. The politicians had performed some illegal operations and they tried to come about. That's the purpose of these lightest rides. The police have realized that there is much more to the Afghan falls was first revealed. That was David McBride. A former military lawyer with the Australian Armed Forces on as it happens in June. He's facing criminal charges for leaking documents about the Australian military's rule in Afghanistan. He'll appear in court next week As its name suggests the high level diner in Edmonton is no greasy spoon. When you sit down. Tuck into their comfort food. You'll know just how much gas you'll be producing greenhouse gas that is because the carbon footprint of options on the menu has been calculated and is now clearly displayed alongside each item. Debbie Parker is the CO owner of the high level diner. That is where we reached her. Debbie if I open the menu at your restaurant what would I see in terms of carbon footprint information? So there's Symbols on the menu that represents a low level carbon footprint a medium or a high level. And so what would be something to say? If I was really hungry would have a meal. That'd be a low carbon footprint We have a tight coconut curry. And it's on the lower level and As well we have a pad Thai And mostly the Vegan. Vegetarian dishes are going to be the lowest carbon footprint. And what have I didn't care Then we have a short ribs. We have a Guinness Cottage Pie We have a prime rib steak and chicken and fish and that kind of thing as well. A new tell people with the carbon footprint is for each of those items on your menu. There is an estimated value beside the majority you of the items and then on the Northern Climate Stewardship and Sustainability Society website. There is Listening with each of the items listed. How did you calculate how much carbon footprint of your meals We gave the information to the NC SS and they basically took all of the values from the sourcing the the recipe size the portions Where the product was coming from and And they compiled all of that data to come up with the estimate for each new item and that's the northern climate stewardship and Sustainability Society. That is correct. Okay so why did you want to do this? we've noticed an increasing number of people that are concerned about their their own carbon emissions and carbon footprint and so when we were approached by northern climate they had said there was a a restaurant in. Sweden. That had done this and we thought that it would be interesting to try this pilot project with them and see what kind of response we would get. And what kind of response have you had Our customer base. We've had a very positive response. People are interested They WanNa know what items they can eat what they can't eat some and that sort of thing and some people are not pleased about it. Unfortunately I think they feel that we're we're against maybe the The beef and the meat industry's the dairy and all of that kind of thing. But it's definitely not that we're trying to offer our customers options and We've been supporting local Alberta beef and dairy producers for almost forty years so this is just a matter of offering consumers options but I mean you are in cattle country well in Alberta generally but then also oil and gas country that it's been resistance to this idea of what's the carbon impact So are you gonNA lose customers because you're doing this? I don't think we'll lose customers over this. I think that most people realize it is a pilot project and the whole idea is to get people talking. we've spoke even with With one of our local farmers who was talking about The industry itself and how agriculture is also looking at different ways that they can lower the carbon footprint. I think in Europe maybe in the Netherlands. They've been feeding beef activated a charcoal and that has had a positive impact on reducing their carbon footprint. And you know I think that it helps with the conversation and and get people talking and and that's a positive thing. Do you have anybody who comes in. And they've decided not to have the prime rib or not to have the the pork ribs. Because what you said about the carbon footprint Not that we've been able to calculate so far it's only been A week and a half. Now since we've had the menu out and so do you think though also there might be a bit of virtue signaling when you when people want to see what's coming out of the kitchen for your table your might fit okay. Maybe I should have the spinach by perhaps perhaps but I think in general it just gives people the option similar to nutrition facts on a label. That if you're concerned about your sodium intake or sugar intake then that would be something that that you're going to pay close attention to but I know even myself included when I go out to a restaurant you know I I want to indulge in. That's the time that you may want to just go ahead and order the steak and there's nothing wrong with that certainly We're just putting it out there and starting the conversation and seeing what happens. Will your glass of wine might have a bigger carbon footprint than your stake truly depending on how many air miles points that has also people. I presume drive to your restaurant do they do? They get a reduced carbon footprint. If they walked well we do give a ten percent discount for people that ride their bikes again. The the more and parking is definitely an issue. So you know the more that people walk the more that people are working towards that. I think the better for everybody so this is a pilot project. How long you keep it up before you evaluate whether it's a good idea We'll be doing a review in six months to take a look and And see where we'll go from there. All right we'll leave it there. I'm sure we'll hear some from our listeners. In reaction to this Debbie. It's to talk to You. Thank you thank you. Bye Bye bye. Debbie Parker is the CO owner of the high level diner and Edmonton. We reached her at the restaurant. When you own a gorgeous heritage property in a picturesque setting you value your view scape you. Don't call it a view escape. Would you still don't want some developer building some eyesore nearby? And completely wrecking it. This is why UNESCO is upset about the Rideau canal in Ottawa which it refers to as the best preserved example of a slack water canal in North America the UN organizations still views the canals a world heritage site with outstanding universal value. But it takes a dim view of what's happening to what it calls the view scape because of the Chateau Loria as you've undoubtedly heard the owners of the historic hotel next to parliament. Hill are putting an addition on it. An addition that has been described as a post modernist mess an act of architectural violence and like a travelodge rear ended a hotel. There's been a huge fewer about it in Ottawa with public complaints legal challenges and General Disgust and apparently UNESCO shares that discussed in a recent letter. It asked Canada to put put the construction on hold until the potential damage to the view. Scape can be reviewed. Unesco isn't saying the Rideau Canal doesn't still have outstanding outstanding universal value. It's just saying it's an awful Nice slack water canal and it would be a shame if something happened to its World Heritage Site Status and if something does happen that addition to the shadow laureate will be the view scapegoat. You've been listening to the as it happens podcast. Our show can be heard Monday to Friday on Radio. One and on Sirius. Xm following the world at six. You can also listen to the whole show on the CBC listen APP. Download it for free from the APP store or from Google play. Thanks for listening. I'm Carol off. I'm Ali Hassan for more. Cbc podcasts Goto CBC DOT CA slash podcasts.

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