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The Council on Foreign Relations Pt. 1


Something to note about secret societies all of the groups covered on this show operate in secret. The details included in this episode are based on extensive research but ultimately can never be one hundred percent verified except by society members themselves for every kernel of truth. There's a swath of misinformation strategically crafted by each group to protect their true goals and practices. Think of a single powerful person in the United States odds are they or someone they know are currently a part of an exclusive institution but has the ability to change the entire world in minutes. This group doesn't hide their elite membership roster in fact they flaunted as a selling point yet. What happens behind the closed doors of their headquarters in an old Manhattan mansion is a complete secret inside? They don't allow audio recordings video or photos to be taken of any of their members. It's a place where titans of Industry Ivy League elites and politicians rub elbows. They're known as the Council on Foreign Relations and call themselves a think tank. Every month scores of wealthy well connected and influential individuals are said to attend dinner meetings at their headquarters to discuss the fate of the world. These meetings of course are invite only despite the easily accessible headquarters. You can't show up at the front door. Expecting to be let in the council is exclusive for a reason a reason that has been a source of controversy since its inception their goals are clear to create a new world order a supposedly peaceful global government independent of any nation sovereignty in doing so they may be laying the framework to control the world. Hi I'm Vanessa. Richardson Greg Poulsen. And this is secret societies of podcast original every Thursday. We examine history's most exclusive organizations from around the world and try to shine a light on the truth behind these mysterious groups from the illumine. Nadi to the order of nine angles will explore how much impact each secret society actually had on the world around them. This is our first episode on the Council on Foreign Relations. A nearly one hundred year old think tank based in New York City. That has had a hand in crafting. Some of the most divisive policies in the United States history. This week we'll take you through the council's formation and how they were making decisions for the United States government by the end of World War. Two next week. We'll discuss the council's nearly impossible reach as its tendrils snake through politics and big business and we'll look into some of the more nefarious claims made about the crew like that. They're looking to control the world not for noble reasons but for their own monetary game. The history of the council on Foreign Relations stretches back nearly a hundred years through countless conflicts and ideological shifts in the United States. The group's genesis came late in nineteen seventeen win. The world was at war men from every walk of life. Were dying entrenches and on battlefields all over. Europe. The United States have been reluctant to join in the fighting during World War One. They felt they were safe across the Atlantic and had nothing to gain but that changed in one thousand nine fifteen when the British passenger ship. Lusitania was sunk by a German U boat. The attack killed one hundred twenty eight Americans. Their debts helped sway the sentiments of many back home who previously felt that it was best to stay out of a conflict that the country had no stake in president. Woodrow Wilson had dragged his feet but in the face of tragedy he relented in April nineteen seventeen three years after the fighting began. The United States declared they were going to enter the fray however even as they joined the largest conflict the world had ever seen Wilson was already planning for its end at the behest of his right hand man and closest advisor. Edward M house. President Wilson created a secret organization within the government. He said its purpose was to create policies to mold the postwar world. The United States believed that their involvement in the war would lead to its swift. End and Wilson wanted to be prepared for the power shifts that were sure to occur. So Edward House gathered one hundred fifty the brightest minds. He could find. He told them that they had a broad mission with one main goal to make the world a better place he called them the inquiry. These men were the cream of the crop. They were lawyers scholars and social scientists. Men like Whitney H Shepardson a brilliant Harvard educated lawyer who became houses personal secretary in fact nearly all of them came from Ivy League institutions working under the president. The group was ordered to come up with reports on how to handle different cultural aspects of the war and how to eventually resolve it while they weren't drawing battlelines. They were tasked with drawing borders as men their age were being killed in the mud on the western front the men at the inquiry huddled together in their New York offices writing up strategic policies in the event that Austria Hungary surrendered in total the inquiry drafted over two thousand for the Wilson Administration. These papers were circulated through the cabinet and to Wilson himself. They laid the crucial groundwork for his foreign policy decisions. But the inquiry became best known for drafting the preliminary terms of surrender for the Germans Ottomans. An austro-hungarians at the end of nineteen seventeen Wilson. Use these terms to help. Form is famous fourteen points. A plan for peace postwar became some of the most important policies of his presidency essentially the inquiry as they were known. Then define the Wilson Administration and they did it from the pack room. The fourteen points called for the creation of several sovereign states including Poland and outlined the steps that Austria Hungary needed to take for peace. They also advocated for all occupying countries like Germany to withdraw and all the losing nations to retain some degree of sovereignty yet. It was the last point that stuck out to many it called for the creation of a General Association of Nations. The inquiry laid the foundations for what would become known as the League of nations a precursor to the United Nations as the war neared its close in January nineteen nineteen Wilson and how selected to small group from within the Cree to join an entourage of diplomats in France for peace talks. These discussions largely focused on Wilson's fourteen points and became the framework for the Treaty of the idealistic bunch. Prepared to have a direct hand in the talks. Were looking forward to spirited debates with mbassador from other countries but while traveling. They were kept secluded from the president's cabinet when they got to Paris. The members of the enquiry found disorder of drawn-out debates with thoughtful compromises deals were often slapped together. At the last minute ambassadors tried to appease every party even if it made the agreement weaker overall the inquiry also discovered that their theories and ideas had unanticipated implications. What may have sounded reasonable inside the Oakland walls at their offices Muslim. Fathomable to those in Paris demographics had changed since the inquiries textbooks were published. Some of their border suggestions were outright rejected. Because they were outdated and unworkable. It was a trial by fire and an eye opener for members of the enquiry. These events made them feel doubt in their ability to get anything done but they found solace in their moments away from the peace talks when they weren't called on to help the President's council. The members of the enquiry spent much of their time at hotel majestic in Paris. There they met with other scholars from allied countries like Great Britain they established a close camaraderie. They had deep meaningful discussions far from the harsh spotlight of the peace talks. These conversations usually burned late into the night. There were disagreements but ultimately they all wanted the same thing a better future free from the conflicts that had played countless generations before them it was these conversations that gave them hope and restore their idealism. These men still believed in foreign relations even if all the suggestions were summarily rejected in Paris. But the talks were about to go even worse for the inquiry. President Wilson was struck by an illness and couldn't be present for of the discussions. The French took this as an opening to railroad their own ideas through. They wanted revenge on the Germans for the occupation of northern France in defiance of the inquiries call for armistice and forgiveness. The fourteen points were essentially shredded in favor of punishing. The Germans members of the enquiry felt that this was incredibly short sighted and could lead to future conflict but in nineteen nineteen. Another war seemed unlikely to many and at the end of the day the inquiry realized that despite all of their research emotions still reigned supreme however what truly broadsided them was what they heard from back home. It didn't appear that the United States would vote in favor of Wilson's fourteen points. It wasn't for lack of trying on Wilson's part but the Senate who has the power to vote on such deals wasn't going to ratify the treaty of her. Cy Many in the United States had a problem with the last point. The League of nations the lead was intended to act as an international council. That would try to resolve issues diplomatically. It was supposed to ensure that something like the Great War would never happen again. However in Nineteen Nineteen. America was divided along the lines of isolationism and internationalism most Americans. The isolationists believed they'd already gone above and beyond on the international stage. Over one hundred thousand American men had crossed the sea never to return now. They wanted to focus on the problems within the United States borders. Those in the inquiry fell on the side of internationalism they believed it was best for America to have a hand in European decision-making they pop a. Us Could Act as peacemakers to avoid further conflict. However many senators didn't want anything to do with Europe they felt safe across the Atlantic Ocean and their own separate corner of the world and then there was the fact that they had to answer to their constituents with whom the League of Nations was highly unpopular. President Wilson took the failure hard saying I can predict with absolute certainty that within another generation there will be another world war if the nations of the world do not concert. The method by which prevented although the United States didn't sign the Treaty of her Scien- June nineteen nineteen every other allied country. Did they each joined? The League of Nations by the end of the peace talks with this minor victory. The conference came to an end. And the inquiry was formally disbanded. Officially their work was complete. However in the weeks and months after a few former inquiry members lingered behind in Paris and where better to finish up various foreign relations research projects that in postwar Europe from afar. These scholars saw the isolationist sentiment growing in their home country. They thought back fondly on their thoughtful late night conversations inside the majestic with their foreign companions. It gave them an idea. They were certain they could have prevented future global conflict if their suggestions had only been heated now a second world war seemed inevitable but the former inquiry members suppose that day could make alliances now accrue power and in the future they D- shape the next round of treating negotiations to their liking up next the former members of the inquiry form one of the most influential groups in United States history. Podcast listeners. If you enjoy stories about murder mystery and the unexplained you'll absolutely love. The new park has two original series supernatural with Ashley Flowers. It's hosted by Crime Junkies Ashley. Flowers and you can hear new episodes every Wednesday. We all know that most mysteries can be solved by looking at the facts but sometimes the backs don't lead to a logical explanation. The truth lies somewhere in the unknown in supernatural with Ashley. Flowers Ashley takes a deep dive into the stringent surreal to explain some of the world's most bizarre true crime occurrences each week. She'll dig into a different crime or mystery where the most fitting theory isn't always the most conventional from exorcisms to unsolved murders to alien abductions. Ashley will take on. The tails challenge the unexplained and dissect the facts with a heavy helping skepticism and rationale. So are you ready to get to the bottom of history's most peculiar events? Follow supernatural with Ashley. Flowers free on spotify. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Now back to the story after negotiating the Treaty of her cy nine hundred nineteen a few former members of the enquiry a small group of intellectuals who helped advise President Wilson were still hanging around Paris. They were disheartened by the outcome of the talks and by the isolationist ideals that were becoming prominent back in the United States they resolved to form their own independent group in the same vein as the inquiry. It's mission would be to keep the torch burning for American Foreign Relations. They believed it was necessary for the United States. Well being a nation either. They participated on the world stage or they'd get left behind but new group wasn't a strictly American endeavor. The former inquiry members partnered with their new friends from Great Britain. A few of whom had also stayed behind. Paris Whitney Shepardson. A few others got together and tentatively formed an organization called the Institute of International Affairs. They had one branch in London at another in New York City encouraging. Collaboration across two continents the group had learned from the embarrassing mistakes during the Paris peace talks. They knew they couldn't make policy decisions based on outdated texts and secondhand information instead the Institute of International Affairs put a major focus on research. They learn everything they could about. A region's history. Its people and its politics in theory. They could then educate those in power to make informed decisions. The former members of the inquiry including Whitney Shepardson and Edward M House came back to the United States excited to continue their work. They had important connections but soon ran into one major hurdle with financial backing from the government. They didn't have enough funding to conduct their research so they began hunting for like minded wealthy allies as fate would have it. They identified another new group. The Council on Foreign Relations and they were struggling to this council on foreign relations was formed in nineteen eighteen during the height of the United States involvement in World War One and was led by a man named L. Hugh route route was a former secretary of state. Who'd served under President Theodore Roosevelt years before he was lawyer by trade but had dedicated much of his life to public service? The Council was a secret dinner club consisting of around two hundred members including wealthy businessmen international bankers and lawyers. They subscribe to the same principles as those in the inquiry put simply they weren't isolationists. They believed in the power of foreign relations to shape the course of global warfare and peace except instead of feeling a moral responsibility to make the world a better place routes council was more concerned with how the war was going to affect their foreign business interests. Reporter Peter Growth said its purpose was to convene dinner meetings to make contact with distinguished foreign visitors under conditions. Congenial Future Commerce. However after the war the council's members found themselves. Aimless their assets in Europe were safe for the time being by the end of nineteen nineteen. The club laid relatively dormant but they were always looking for an opportunity to continue their meetings and find new edges in business so their leader L. A. Hugh route was thrilled to meet the Institute of International Affairs Aka. The former members of the inquiry in one thousand nine hundred twenty one route believed that a deeper understanding of the new global stage would be pages. The majority of the group didn't have much experience with porn policy-making we're far from experts outside their fields business. The council also didn't have many important government contacts something. The newly formed Institute of International Affairs could offer the president's special advisor. Edward M house was still deeply connected to the group and Whitney Shepardson houses. Assistant was now helping to lead the institute. One group had money be other had access and research. Each had exactly what the other needed. No one knows how they heard of one another but we can assume that in the elite sphere of New York City a few members crossed paths in nineteen twenty one. The academics of the Institute of International Affairs approached the bankers and businessmen of the Council on Foreign Relations to discuss a merger. The council fought over the proposition. But this seemingly perfect solution came with major problem the institute's British branch for all their talk of studying international relations. The council wasn't quite ready to join a truly cross continental effort and the American branch of the institute eager to appease their new well-heeled colleagues agreed to the demands. Shepardson was left with a tough task of contacting the branch in Britain to break the news to his relief. Their friends across the pond agreed them they'd been dealing with the same problem themselves and it would be easier for them to move forward without formal. American connections years later this group would evolve into the world renowned British. Think tank Chatham House with that business out of the way. The two American groups merged on July Twenty Ninth Nineteen Twenty one. The New York State Supreme Court signed off on the paperwork that allowed the creation of a new nonprofit organization the Council on Foreign Relations their initial charter read. The council has no selfish purposes. It is an organization of interested and informed people with a patriotic desire to help their national life and the relations with foreign countries as former secretary of State Ela Hugh route had deep connections within the government as well as the business world because of this he was the natural choice to be. The leader of the new merged group other confirmed founding members included. Harry Stimson the secretary of war under President Taft from nineteen eleven to nineteen thirteen and John Foster Dulles a key member of the United States Legal Counsel for the Treaty of her PSI in Nineteen nineteen. Then they were bankers like Russell laughing. Well a partner at J. P. Morgan Bank and Paul Warburg a leading economist who was crucial in developing the Federal Reserve System in the US in spite of these illustrious members the council claim to be an independent nonpartisan group. They stated that their sole goal was to advance. American interest in foreign policy and they didn't want to alienate any new members from joining and recruitment was a major focus within a year the group carefully selected roughly three hundred men to join their exclusive club these purportedly included scholars from Ivy League schools. Titans of industry and politicians each man brought something unique to the new council either influence or perspective as far as we know. There is no elaborate initiation ceremony. Just as simple dinner party was some of the most powerful people in the world. The Council on Foreign Relations didn't have any official authority in the nineteen twenties. They didn't draft policy or advise world leaders instead. They use the dinner meetings as a forum to learn and in turn. They applied that knowledge to their ordinary. Lives for example businessmen in the council might forgo a deal in a certain country if they knew of negative political implications and the academics discovered how deals were cut behind closed doors or how a person could advance an agenda outside the proper channels and they crafted their proposals. Accordingly this led to criticism from other academics. Despite their claims of being politically independent the group had a hard time shaking an image that would follow them for the rest of their existence now that the scholars had paired themselves with powerful businessmen. It was nearly impossible for them to be viewed as impartial. A crucial component of any research. After all their research findings were regularly used so investors could make a quick buck or revise a business plan and the proceeds from those deals made further research possible. How could they truly claim that they were working to make the world a better place given how tied up they were in private interests? That question is still being debated today. It's hard to get an answer because we don't know what goes on behind closed doors beyond the broad strokes we do know that starting the nineteen twenties over dinner the Council hosted confidential but informal discussion groups to help ensure more frank and honest conversation. The council created the rule of non attribution any conversations. Within the walls of the council would be kept secret. They wanted an environment where they're members felt comfortable making bold propositions or adopting risky stances. Nothing was off the table and all of us were welcomed after all discussion led to a better understanding of how things worked. According to the council discussion groups were just one avenue by which they educated its members. There were also study groups which were considered more serious. They were usually comprised. Mostly of the scholarly members who would collaborate and build on what they've learned from other councilmen. One head researcher kept memo's of their discussion and then took ownership of the Finnish publication. It wasn't a democratic process and there was rarely consensus on the findings. These memos would then be circulated amongst other members. They could have covered topics such as the effects of foreign revolutions or border disputes. In another country. The studies were usually wide ranging and sometimes were very little interest to the businessmen of the club but they were critically important for its growth as an intellectual institution however the founders wanted to be more than a mere intellectual institution. They remember their original principles. They wanted to change the world for the better to prevent future wars. They needed to get their studies outside the private halls of the council. And into the hands of policymakers in late nineteen twenty two the council printed. Its first official magazine. It was a quarterly publication called foreign affairs. Within the first year the magazine had nearly five thousand subscribers. It wasn't a large number but the studies were finding their way to the right individuals. It was read by people within the State Department and even foreign leaders including Vladimir Lenin he actually annotated many the foreign affairs articles they were a window into American intellectuals view of the World. Foreign Affairs was critically influential. It helped spread the work that was done within the council and promoted the ideas they favored however it wasn't making that much money and while they were receiving some funding from their business minded patrons. There were no formal membership fees and thus no steady source of income so in order to fund their studies and their fancy dinners. The council reached out to a few organizations once more. It didn't hurt that so many wealthy and influential businessmen around the council in the nineteen twenties twenty-six companies signed up to patronize the organization. The support brought them access to some of the dinners held at the Council's headquarters. And some of the memos that never reached the public in a matter of time the council went from pinching pennies to investing their excess funds. The stock market was booming and turning the council a Prophet. It helped that. There were a few influential bankers. On the council's board of directors. They also knew the real estate market so when the group realized they had out grown their first headquarters. They went searching for the perfect place. That's when they found a five storey townhouse at forty five east sixty fifth street which happened to be located next to the personal residence of mayoral candidate. Franklin D Roosevelt. It was on the market for three hundred thousand dollars worth about four point. Four million today to buy it. The council withdrew funds from the stock market in Nineteen. Twenty eight curiously. This was less than a year before the market crashed and set off the Great Depression. It's possible they just lucked out with good timing. But given how many banking insiders were on the council they may have had an inkling of what was coming and since their real estate holdings were relatively stable they were safe from the worsening economic crises in their new headquarters. The council's influence grew. Even more members joined. Foreign Affairs was beginning to be widely read by those in public office. Word was getting out about the scholars in the council people in positions of power. Were taking notice. It would only be a matter of time. Before this self-described independent group would be inextricably linked to the United States government up next the council attempts to shape the outcome of world. War Two now back to the story. The Council on Foreign Relations came from honest yet elite beginnings after rising from the ashes of the inquiry in nineteen twenty one. The group had a meteoric rise in influence. All of this came to a head. After the presidential election in Nineteen thirty-three President Franklin Delano Roosevelt was sworn in on March fourth. Nineteen thirty-three was well connected to the New York City elite. Fdr knew all about the council. He lived next door to their new headquarters and may have even attended a few of their dinner parties. We don't know how involved the council was with his presidency. At least at first but given Roosevelt's familiarity with the group it wouldn't be a surprise if he read a few of their policy. Memos those memos may have helped to craft aspects of the new deal which helped the United States crawl out from the shadows of the Great Depression. It'd probably didn't hurt that. The five hundred council members included numerous business executives including those from standard oil J. P. Morgan and chase bank and they had their own interest in seeing the economy improve. Whoever was behind the policies they were working? The market was beginning to look up in the United States. At the start of Roosevelt's presidency but things across the Atlantic were increasingly dire. The Nazi party in Germany was gaining ground and fascism was taking hold of the continent in nineteen thirty three Hamilton Fish. Armstrong the editor of the Council's publication. Foreign Affairs was granted an interview with Adolf Hitler. The new Chancellor of Germany Armstrong was excited to be the first American to interview Hitler since he attained his new position but Armstrong Left Berlin. Deeply shaken by what he'd heard. Interestingly though Armstrong conducted the first interview he wasn't the first council member who talked with Hitler two weeks earlier Allen Dulles had spoken with him as a legal adviser to the League of Nations Dulles to left Germany feeling unsettled Dulles Armstrong believed that war with Germany was inevitable. Tell us felt so strongly that he had his firm's office in Berlin closed their fears were seemingly confirmed on September. First Nineteen thirty nine. Germany invaded Poland. Starting a chain reaction that led to the Second World War on September Twelfth. Nineteen thirty nine president. Roosevelt reached out to the academics in the Council on Foreign Relations. Much like the inquiry before them. He wanted the council to help come with a strategy and they were once more planning for an outcome that hadn't happened yet. America's eventual entrance into a global war. And even more secretive inner group within the council was formed known as the war and Peace Studies. These studies were funded by the Rockefeller Foundation for a total of three hundred fifty thousand dollars. Which today is about six point five million? Their findings were confidential. Even kept from other members of the Council on Foreign Relations. The Warren P studies spent months cloistered in private offices researching different strategies for entering war. And the possible outcomes very little is known about their findings or about the documents they created for the executive branch because of this it is nearly impossible to tell the effect they had on the president and his cabinet but we can presume. Roosevelt considered them invaluable because in nineteen forty. He offered the secretary of war position to Henry Stinson. Stimson was a founding member of the Council on Foreign Relations and had formerly been the secretary of war under president. Taft in nineteen eleven. He believed his time in public office was over but couldn't turn down the offer. Stimpson took with him. Several council members including a rising star named John McCloy McCloy was a harvard educated lawyer who stimpson had met during discussion group late. One night at the Council headquarters while the two were political opposites. Stimpson took a liking to him. Mccloy became his assistant during his time at the State Department. It's unclear if they were still technically members at this time but they were still in contact with the council either way the independence and impartiality of the group was thrown into question with Stimpson's appointment as secretary more so far. They navigated the gray area of manipulating Wall Street. But now many members were formerly a part of the government for better or worse the council on Foreign Relations now had a pipeline straight into public office. Pandora's box had been unlocked and the door to nepotism seemed thrown open. The world was their sandbox and the council on Foreign Relations strived to accomplish what they never could in. Paris continued world peace when stimpson became the secretary of war people in the United States faced with a similar dilemma to the one thirty years before they could either intervene the growing global conflict or wait to see what happened. This debate percolated throughout the dinner. Discussions at the council members like Dulles Brothers were said to have gotten into a loud shouting match with each other over. What course of action? The United States was supposed to take Allen believed. It was the country's duty to fight yet his brother John wanted nothing to do with the war. These debates didn't last long on December seventh nineteen forty one. The Japanese military bombed Pearl Harbor in Hawaii and the United States formally entered World War Two during the conflict. The council further cemented itself as one of the most powerful organizations in the country and the entire world in one thousand nine hundred forty one Allen Dulles was recruited to the Office of Strategic Services or the O. S. it was a precursor to the CIA and was the government's intelligence wing during world. War Two the heads of the OS says new of his connection to the council and of his time working with the League of Nations. He foreign contacts that they needed so dulles was sent overseas to cultivate sensitive information from German defectors Dulles was just one member who found his place in federal service. As more of the council's members joined the government their influence grew and so did membership more young bright minds were eager to join the exclusive club. That was so well connected and the council wasn't just growing in numbers and influence. It was literally growing in size soon. Their second headquarters proved to be too small in nineteen forty four. Harriet Barnes Pratt. The wife of a former member. Harold Pratt donated the family's mansion in New York City to be their new headquarters. It was a great part of town and it had the potential to be a stunning centerpiece for the group to convert the old mansion into a functional headquarters. The council needed more funds. Luckily they were as well connected as ever with the war still raging on John. D Rockefeller Jr. the head of Chase Bank of Manhattan helped organize a fundraiser. In April nineteen forty-five the new headquarters at the Pratt. House opened Edwards detainees. The current secretary of state was in attendance. He said he was there to bear. Witness as every secretary of state during the past quarter of a century to the great services and influence of this organization in spreading knowledge and understanding of the issues of United States foreign policy but statinias was also member of the council himself and he was very possibly making sure that the war ended the way the council wanted it to. They had a new headquarters and they were going to use it to change the face of the Earth on April twenty. Fourth Nineteen forty-five statinias fellow cabinet member secretary of war. Henry Stimson sent a letter to the president. Stimpson wrote we would have the opportunity to bring the world into a pattern in which the peace of the world and our civilization can be saved. He was talking about the Manhattan project and the Nuclear Bomb. Stimpson could see the end of the war in sight. He had a direct say in how and where the bomb was to be used. He was also a high ranking member of the Council on Foreign Relations and had the ear of every member of the Society. While it can't be confirmed it seems the council may have gained control of a nuclear bomb stimpson's connections with the council may have dictated his actions and in doing so forever changed the global landscape in postwar world. The council could rectify all of their failures from the Treaty of her CY. They seemingly infiltrated the government and they were only getting started. They had a taste of power at. It looked like they wanted more. The Council on Foreign Relations would have a member leading the free world. Thanks again for tuning into secret societies. We'll be back next week with part. Two on the Council on Foreign Relations will take a deep dive into how the council was able to ultimately shape the new world starting at the end of World War. Two and how to this day they may still be the ones pulling the strings on our every day lives for more information on the Council on Foreign Relations amongst many sources. We used we found. Peter grosses book continuing the inquiry extremely helpful to our research. You can find all episodes of secret societies and all other podcast originals for free on spotify. Not only to spotify already. Have all your favorite music. But now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like secret societies for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream secret societies on spotify. Just open the APP and type secret societies in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram. At podcast and twitter at podcast network. We'll see you next time. Secret societies was created by. Max Cotler and is a PODCAST STUDIOS. Original is executive produced by Max Cutler. Sound design by Kenny. Hobbs with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden and Travis Clark. This episode of Secret Societies was written by Robert Tyler Walker with writing assistance by Maggie Admire and stars Greg Olsen and Vanessa Richardson listeners. I hope you remember to check out the new podcast original series supernatural with Ashley Flowers. Everyone's Day take a deep dive into the strange and surreal to find the truth behind some of the world's most bizarre crimes. I can't get enough of this show and I hope you feel the same search for supernatural with Ashley Flowers in the spotify APP and listen free today.

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