Patrick McEnroe talks Tennis with Craig Shapiro
Good Day my friends. And Welcome to the Craig Shapiro. Tennis podcast today's show is brought to you by the legendary Giorgio brand made famous by Gabriella Sabatini. Pete Sampras was most famously worn by the brother. Today's guest their gear. Turgeau TEQUILA DOT COM. And when you get checkout my code Craig. Thirty in all cows thirty percent off or grew up in the seventies and eighties in Queens and then Long Island New York distinguished himself as one of the best. Juniors in the nation after an exemplary career at Stamford turned pro and reach twenty eight in the world. He has been Davis Cup. Captain Head of USDA player development has been a broadcaster at ESPN's nineteen ninety. Patrick McEnroe is today's guest ready to do this. I'm ready man. You know I have to tell you you're somebody. I thought that I would have seen more of We lived lived in Lafayette Street. I lived in Leonard Jewelry but somehow I think I kind of dipped out of tennis when you really just kind of have been in it from every day every week for thirty five for your whole life About I'm on fifty years. If Those Three Fifty Years Gentlemen you here is former world number. Twenty eight former world number three in doubles Stanford graduate and on some level broadcaster former Davis Cup captain former head of US TA player pro player development and the brother of one of the most famous people on the Earth by man. An old friend of Mine Patrick McEnroe coming from his basement man. Yeah well listen You you Craig inspired me to get into this and to start my own podcast which I did just in the last couple of weeks when this whole epidemic hit and I then found out shortly thereafter that I was positive for the virus myself. I've been having some kind of minor symptoms a couple of different ones breathing issues little bit of coffee in a little bit fever so anyway long story short. I ended up here in my basement. I've been here for about a month. Luckily just in the last week I've been able to go back upstairs with my family with gloves and the mask. I'm hoping to get the all clear that is cleared by system so I can go back to quote unquote normally being with my kids and wife. So while I've been down here. Okay I've been doing some zoom webinars for our kids in our John McEnroe tennis academy which has been great. So I figured out how to do that. I've rearranged my basement and my office down here and then I had this podcast machine that I had been talking to a podcast company. A mud house media based up in Boston for months. Talking about this idea concept of what my podcast be which essentially people that are very successful outside of tennis but who loved tenants and who obsessed tents so. I saw this machine. I said you might be a decent time to figure out how to get this thing together by dear so so I've been knocking them out for the last couple of weeks. I wanted just dial right into this. Do you have any kind of feel for how you may have caught the virus? No no absolutely not. I mean I'm guessing just based on where I was that at our tennis academy which is on Randall's island you know just just north of Manhattan You know we got tons of kids coming through there every day tons of people. Lots of coaches You know obviously most kids knock on wood. Luckily don't get really sick from it. at least that's what the current areas are But they may have to when you so when you got sick. Did you feel like Oh. This is different. This is on the first. The first thing I started noticing was I was really having trouble sleeping at night for a few nights in a row. And that's pretty unusual. I'm usually a pretty good sleeper. Usually go to bed and you know need my seven. Nine hours asleep And I just was like waking up in the night and at first I thought well. Obviously this was just starting to happen. Meaning we are Shutting Down New York shutting down our academy. What was GONNA happen so I was just stressed out? Many of us are going through and thinking about my kids and my wife you know what how is this going to play out you know. Cetera ET CETERA. So that would then after a couple of days I we had dinner a member on Saturday night with my kids and my wife. My kids already like in full lockdown. You know they'd started home online school in In Our town up here in Westchester and I said to my wife I said you know I just don't feel right you know. I think we should take my temperature. Took my temperature and sure enough at a fever. A combined with the other symptoms. I'd had that was when we say we you know. Put me in the basement so we my wife and I sort of talked about it. Luckily we do have a space. Down here GotTa pull out band. And there's a bathroom no shower so I always have to go up once every few days with everything on to take a shower But as I said I've been pretty lucky because my symptoms. I've never been extreme to our. I thought Oh my God like I'm in trouble or I need to go to the doctor for the hospital because I spoke to a lot of people. Similar age to us to be guided and really hit got hit pretty hard. You know as far as symptoms was so you were communicating with some of our friends and and people. You know comparing notes direct. Yeah I mean you know. There's a few other people that I knew that had it. And you know we're getting pretty high fevers consistently and you know spreading profusely Opposite OF BREATHING. Thing is the biggest. You know big concern so I have felt at times that I don't have my normal strength in my lungs you know which for me is being an athlete and kept myself in pretty decent shape over the years so may To Walk my dog here with me in the background and walk up the hill and get a little bit. Fatigued is very pretty strange. Not to mention that as I started doing these podcasts. You Know Greg when you start talking a lot. I noticed like losing my breath a little bit. Rail doing the podcast. So that leads has led me to believe that you know is still hanging around So you know taking extra precautions with the family. Now you have any opinion of leadership in New York in through this in general I think Cuomo has done a great job. I mean I think he's a right from the beginning he's been out in front of it and doing the best he can seemingly in you. Don't try to be difficult ways specifically the city so where I live pretty close to when the first outbreak happened in new Rochelle When before really even hit the city oh I think he's done a good job of keeping everybody posted in being upfront and honest about what's going on. That's all you can do You know it's been rough. It's been rough here in this area As I said a lot of friends and people I know got it and even you know some some friends of mine have loss and people that have lost their lives so it's been It's been a pretty eye opening experience. I mean we all obviously are dealing with it everywhere. And we're just trying to get through it. I wanted to talk about Your your perspectives. On what has transpired since Indian Wells cancelled? Yeah I mean it's amazing when you look back because everyone was shocked when that happened I was I was literally get ready to go on a plane and go out there to do some things with. Bnp Paribas which actually sponsors are scholarship kids at our tennis academy and then obviously to participate In the event itself. Actually I wasn't actually supposed to do the broadcasting for ESPN which I normally do. Because I was taking my wife and my kids degrees for fiftieth birthday. My wife stones down on my wife just turned fifty. We were going on a family. Of course all that got canceled at people were surprised. Wow like this is kind of a big deal. That was really the first bank professional sporting event. Pull the plug in in our country. It turned out that They were ahead of the curve so to speak. They'd had a couple of reports. I guess at the hospital in the Palm Springs area of people getting it and I think California's done a pretty good job of being way out in front of it as you. You certainly don't see the cases like you see in New York City which obviously people are living on top of each other. So you know that. Move quickly Obviously with Wimbledon announced that they were cancelling that was shot in the gut all of us in the tennis world. Kind of knowing that this is going to be a while and I happen to think that the US Open is is at this point turning into more of a long shot to happen at least certainly with with normal amount of fans Not a problem for professional tennis. Obviously is that we're coming. You know broadcasters fans players are coming from all over the world so the only way for professional tennis to really get back to what you know some sense of normalcy is Owen. Tire world has to be reopened. San and I think it's a little EAS- not easy. But but a more manageable country under to do things city by city state by state but worldwide is what it would take for tennis to come back so. I think that's GonNa make it very difficult to see any tennis professional at the highest level in this year. If you take a have you had any Our show we pride ourselves on being a bit of an insider's show. Have you had any interesting conversations with any behind the seniors that have given you some perspective that maybe we don't know about well. I think that Obviously I think the issue of doing it with limited fans at the US Open. Come up You know I do think there's some concern amongst the tennis organizations that You know obviously everybody's struggling all over the world. I mean millions of people have lost their jobs including a lot of our pros at our Tennis Academy. You know teaching rose and people that work in the clubs that's happening on a global scale but tennis players are people to write professional tennis players. And obviously we're not talking about Serena and Roger and Rafa are struggling financially but we are talking about a lot of players that are ranked between one hundred two thousand men and women. That are that. I think really are struggling. So I'm hoping that they'll be some way for their whether it's the majors the tours to get together and you know maybe give these players some loans the PGA Talking about doing that. Maybe as done that already. I think that's that's an issue for professional tennis players not to mention all the people that were in the tennis world the tennis industry whether there are people in TV like us a lot of those people who work for ESPN for big neck. Networks are not a contract employers for the whole year so they come in and they count on these events throughout the course of the year so those people are struggling as well If there's a way that tennis can be played safely. Obviously and and for television I think that would be a positive but remember tennis. Unlike a lot of the bigger the bigger teams for our country but all basketball hockey cetera relied far are heavily on a daily attendance to pay their bills and to satisfy Pay The players than the other sports event then. Tv Revenue Damp the NFL obviously and Nba a much. Higher percentage of their income of their revenues. Come from television than they do from the from the daily gate the for tennis. It's a little one of the things that I've I've found interesting has been the emergence of Andre Gow Danzi as a As a real deal or barely sounded like the real deal in his presser few days ago Do you know him. Can you talk about him? I know reasonably well. I mean I played with them on a tour. He was Eliza little bit younger than me but he was on the tour. When I was out there always had a lot of respect for him as a player as a pet birds. Very hard worker. You know not depots gifted player but a hell of a competitor and extremely fit and obviously a smart got. So you know. I was unaware of how impressive his resume as Ben since he left Tennessee and went on to have a real career in the business world. So I think that's. That's pretty always knew he was a smart guy. But he's sort of taken that to another level so I agree with you. I've been really. I mean. I was really liked him as a player guide. Smart Guy went to see what he's done in the see the way he's kind of stepped into I mean who that could have Predicted something like this. And all of a sudden he steps into this world where you know the the the past problems seem minuscule as far as the tour dealing with the majors and players splintered in different directions. Now you've got this global crisis so It seems like he's he's he's handling it well so far and I hope that he might be a strong voice for the players. You know the non top top players that need help through this process and also it seems like he's taking this opportunity to look at all the problems we've known to have have existed at county. Come to some you know a better organization for professional tennis. In general he spoke to and I guess. There's been some initiatives with the men and the women together. That felt like really good to me in general. Yeah I mean I think when you look look obviously lucky to majors and look at the big. You Know Masters Events Commander where the only sport we tennis. Where the only sport really where men and women are on equal footing and essential okay? There's some cracks here and there obviously but you have to. I think it has a former male player. I can understand how sometimes a male players get a little bit upset about debt right because if you look at the men's tour essentially just by itself in the women's store. The men's store brings in more revenue. Okay but I think you have to look at the overall good and the overall good is the majors are huge keep getting bigger and better Soda Masters Events. Why not bring the rest of the tour is together? No doubt I mean because that's actually helping the overall economic so you could say if you are hardcore guy like a women shouldn't play alongside us but I think you're losing sight than of the bigger picture. Which is that first of all the great thing to do coach culturally. And it's the right message to send and we should be very proud of ourselves in the tennis world that we can send that message legitimately at why not keep going in that direction because people like fans you know what I go to tournaments fans along the fact that they could see men and women not a plane. It's great for the sport so I think to me. Maybe this is an opportunity for the men's and women's tour in women's to actually start to come together for and to that point when Nick CURIOS PRACTICES WITH MANDA ANY SIMONOVA. It draws a bigger crowd than any other around thirty two match. There is man. Well you know women women and man can can successfully practice with each other on certain certain situations like at people love that it's bad for morale is sport. It's a great message. Santa kids out there And I think it's something that doesn't exist. I mean dial can the Olympics the Olympics that exists. Right as far as you know that you're on a team representing your country but there's really no other sport even golf. You know which is kind of had it. You couldn't do it practically because they're not playing against women percents Hasn't really capitalized on it to me. The same way certainly. Nowhere close to what tennis has been able to do. Man I I have to ask you now that we're of disorder of advanced age in you look back and he kind of close your eyes. What was it like to have that front row seat in the players box at practice? I can only imagine at the kitchen table when you were you know. Ten in John was seventeen man. What was that like? You know it's funny because It seemed kind of normal at the time because that was like when you're a kid and now that I see with my three children You know kind of whatever's happening around you you just think it's like a life so for example when You know the TV news crews started coming to our house in Douglaston. When John Semi's at Wimbledon you know as a qualifier is a teenager. You know it seemed Kinda cool like oh. This is kind of fun you know. Of course we look back and we say why in the world do let all these news crews in our house like we would never do that after being around it for a couple of years at Sarah. Obviously tennis was always a big part of growing up for us for both of us. Just you're there's another brother and he and he can't play. It could play pretty well. He's actually a really solid player but he never got into plane competitive never really got you know he was. He's in the middle of Mian. John John D. All this and mark was was a solid player but he had like one older brother who is really a younger brother coming up who is getting pretty good and I used to play with them a lot because we were you know as I got to be. Maybe eleven twelve you know. He was like forty years older than so when ice. He could tell that I was starting to get to where I was probably going to be. Zoom you know so he was like I can't put himself in tournaments deal. At obviously John was earn the top players in the country and mark and other interests. He was in a basketball at different things. But it's really so much apart. Be Dead So when. John made it like big. It didn't seem like that unusual. Obviously looking back. Someone sent me a video. Actually yesterday of Upjohn hitting at the French Open like warming up for one of his big matches and then they they they. They moved over to the other side. He was hit you with me and I'm like I don't. I don't remember that I was born being probably warming up for like a huge match at the friend I used used to drive them to the. Us Open when he was in his heyday like in the mid eighties. Early to mid eighties. I used to drive him from our house in in in Long Island. Because we we. He bought us like this big pad had a tennis court needed for the whole family us. We used a kid in the morning. John and I would practice and then we I would drive him into the open for the big matches and we had a total routine he. This is four. Fifty S L. Is First car ever bought Mercedes with with his earnings so he kept that forever we used to have we used to get? I used to drive and he used a nap on the forty. Five minute drive into She battles every time. It was like clockwork so that was like are routine like I would warm up place for forty five minutes. He didn't want to deal with the crowd in the practice. And then he would just like to just be. You know start locking in manly get ready for the matches satellite. That was my life. You know how important was your father to the whole program. He was he was I'm not going to say he was the driving force but he was the driver like he drove us. My mom was probably more light to drop. My mom was pretty like tents Hard core like You know when my dad always like to tell the story when he when he was working during the day when just got married there in early twenties in he had a job working as a law firm? He was going to law school at night? He would go to law school at night and work during the day. My mom was a nurse. Emergency Room nurse for many years. They lived in like you know. An apartment in flushing was first place. They Lynn Dad came home Very excited one one one day at the end of the school year instead. Carry my mom's Amos Que. She said he said carry. I finished number two in my class and she said Oh really who finished one. That was kind of like A little bit of she was she drove us. Pretty hard especially John can be in the first and opposite devotes most talented China's wise. Oh Up my dad. My Dad loved like he loved. You know being the dad to John McEnroe and and and being involved in Davis Cup and you know that was his favorite thing in the world was Davis Cup. You love that and allowed to be rounded but he used to drive me to all the tournaments when I was a kid and you know he likes to say he was very proud of the fact that when I was a junior here in the east grown up in the East I was always one of the top juniors in east and I had a great record. So he told me and in three-set matches went the distance. He was very proud of the advice. He would give me inbetween sats because those days you could get like a ten minute break and coaching so he would always say to me son do what she did on the set you want. You can't go wrong with that advice right so really really enjoyed it in a way that You know he was. He had a lot of pride in in what we did. And and but more than just a plain Barda mini loved the plane far but he just allow especially love the you know when we started working together on TV. That was really cool for that was great for me. That was something I always wanted to do is to try to work with John. Tv which is part of the reason. I tried to develop other skills other than just being an analyst here and finally came to fruition so I think he was he was pretty pumped up out to you know I. I wrote a story a like a thirty five hundred word story for racket magazine. Who I know you're and it. And it was about Martin Mulligan and he told me a story about how John Lo fi la because of Borg and he was wearing fee law in that he was dealing with your father in John was like at Stanford. Where did your dad sort of operate as the agent for a moment or two? Oh definitely not. He operated Bert are Asian for a long time. In fact and probably in retrospect too long because I think especially with John. You know 'cause they butted heads a lot. Mike that had you know in some ways a similar personality to John But over a good part of John's career you know my dad. John always hat like an agent of tennis person. But my dad was always liked the guy overseen and he was a lawyer by trade so he was very good way better than most of our Asians ever could have been about reading contracts and specifying. Because that's what he did for a living so come a time where things John especially felt that know it was it was. It was tough on their father son relationship at that. So that's the Awsat like later in his career. But you know I always appreciated. Obviously I didn't have to kind of money that John Did So it was nice that my dad you know helping me out with style not having to pay him what he always even even later in my career like when I started getting a broadcast in it started to do my own deals with my agent with with ESPN or whomever by Dad. Always want let me see the contract letting go over the contract and of course that would that would make my agents nervous big here we but but he he certainly out our best interests at heart. No DOUBT ABOUT LAST QUESTION. The last thing locher father you gotta just tell the story about him chasing down a bandit in the subway that happened. Isn't it in your? Your father did happen He was older at the time so I don't think he could catch him but he was pretty. He was pretty pissed off about it and we were a little worried about him because I think he would try to run up to subway steps. And I'M GONNA say he was in his early seventies at that point when that happened you know. He passed away in his early eighties. And so he was you know he was struggling a bit physically but he was a New Yorker through through my dad. I mean he grew up and the upper east side Irish immigrant. Family only child. You know playing stickball playing handball on the streets and he's by to say that that's where we got our hand eye coordination hand long. Because he you know he didn't have the money to play tennis. Yes sports like that so I think he was really proud of where he came from. Obviously giving us the opportunities that we got even when my dad? My mom had no money at all. they they got us to go to the private school and basically took out a loan told them they pay them back pay school back years later which they did so they always lucky to try to give us the things that they couldn't have when they were growing up. You distinguish yourself as a top junior in the country. How would you describe your career? And how did you? How did you decide to turn pro? Good question I mean it was you know I was. I was a very successful. Junior Assert a considered slightly at times. Like do I not go to college but I never really considered that seriously If I had I think I'd probably would have had a slightly better tennis career because I didn't really understand what it took to make it at the pros buy left college. You know Chuck Adams meet me. Chuck Adams Michael Joyce and Jeff. Tarango were on a text texting string and they were given Jeff Shit. They said you know you got soft at College. Because he was ill one of the best juniors there ever was right and they were kind of giving him a hard time and and chuck really believed that that you know you ain't. GonNa you ain't GonNa beat a guy from Bulgaria fighting for his life coming out of coming out of Stanford. It's going to take us down. I think it would have probably. I think I looked at it in the right way which is probably not not like John. You know people forget John was already topped thirty in the world when he went to Stanford. Okay Act happening anything like that today. Would my mom just said like you're going to Stanford you're going for year you're just GONNA go. So is that what your brother just forced him. You're going to college for a year. That's yes that was innocent. Yeah Yeah because they already knew that he was gonNA make a lot of money in that he was going to be a top player in the world Early optics so for me it was. That wasn't obvious. So can I say Erin saying you know if I had gone all in as a professional player at Seventeen Eighteen. I think I probably would have gotten a little bit higher. Maybe could have gotten to the top. Twenty maybe fifteen in the world But that was not a guarantee so obviously getting an education getting a degree going to college that experience first of all Was Amazing and I think it'd be crazy for me to say that my other opportunities that I've gotten you know in the tennis world but outside of the plane you know working for the U. V. in Davis Cup Captain Head of player development getting into broadcasting. Doing my own radio show etcetera. Of course I could have done that just by being a former tennis player but I think that having that education certainly helped so while you know I think the payoff of me having just going straight to the pros probably I feel like I still made the right decision going to college. Even though my my tennis in college I think someone stagnated the last couple of years I was there. I know you are a believer in college tennis. I Love Tennis. I mean college is You know you have to. You have to work harder as individual player to make it a preparation for the promotes. That's the Kate College. Chances for ninety nine percent of junior tennis players is the way to go. Because you're very unlikely to make a living playing temps college China's is awesome. I mean it's so much fun. It's so much fun. Yeah it's a great atmosphere and but to but if you if you want to be a professional player then you have to really do a lot on your own while you're in college because the college system is not set up for the pros necessarily but I mean it can if you're a top guy. You're Steve Johnson and you're playing number one at USA or at Stanford or something like that you know you're playing good competition. But you've even Steve Johnson as as great a college player as he. Was you know it took a while to figure out? Okay like when I go to the pros. I gotTa take my fitness to the next level by training. I gotta take everything to the next level which was able to do you know. Is there a little bit of an exception? Just because of his is is in his game style because it serves. Yeah but when you look at a lot of really really top college players when they left college could make. It's like almost like Kevin. Anderson is ner are exceptions to the rule because of elite size elite serves. Really THEY HOLD. Serve all serve the night. Give that game a little time to sort of figure out what else they needed to do to get better. You know to be to be great pro players which they both become. How would you describe your pro career? I think I maxed down. I mean I think as I said. I think I could have done a little better earlier. If I'd been you know better condition. When I got out of college I was woefully out of shape compared to the to the pro level so it took me two years to figure out what I needed to do to be like a decent singles player. Obviously I had very good double skills if I have focused only on doubles. You're more on doubles. I think I could have won more titles in doubles but at the same time I wanted to like try. Become a legitimate singles player so That hurt me early on being good at doubles but doubles were sort of paying my bills for a couple of years. So I think you know I found that balance But I think that the overall you know when I look at my results you know my better results overall were actually in bigger tournaments in the majors. I think because I was fitter. I worked hard. I wasn't you know the national emails explosive type player. So you know I'm proud of the fact that I felt like my best results came in some. You know some of the majors know you mentioned when you spoke to Rene in Caitlyn that Dickie. Herbst was a profound coach for you that he really got the best. Outta you and when I met you it was probably like around the clay court season. Nineteen Ninety six. I think you were probably top thirty. Then you precipitously fell off by ninety. You were off the tour. Generally speaking of talk about who dickey was an intern of what happened to you at that moment in time while I was also tour basic as I had got injured shoulder surgery. Ninety eight ninety nine. That's ended my career but Dicky was sort of a a a longtime friend. He'd coach one of my best friends growing up. Paul ingenue played at Harvard. And you know had a little bit of his stint on the tour is brother. Peter played a little bit on the tours while dicky's -Chusetts Guy Right he's originally from Massachusetts so he's So that's where he grew up. He spent some time working with at one point. He was a big Core J. Fish. Who has a coach at Harvard for many many years so from that that area and so I came to know him through my my friends and so I've known him for a number of years and you know he just kind of reorganize my game a little bit he. He had a lot of belief in me. He got me practice. It better players more often. Got a used if you know. I think understanding my strength. Which was my backhand. Had A setup my backhand he was big into patterns and plans specific patterns. Oh what's album? What's an example of that That how did he bring a sort of that? That really change in strategy right. You're all of a sudden. He's talking about patterns to you. What would you say you know why? Why would you know you get a a rally ball on the forehand and most people say you hit that Cross court? That's save shot you know. How do you want to play this point? Is You know like like a rip back in its opponent. Let's work on your forehand down the line. You know a little bit higher with shame you know to your opponents back in assuming that righty because the odds are the next. Ball's GonNa come to your back in so like things like that using your sir. I didn't have a big Sur. Use Your Syrup. So that the likelihood is you're going to get back in on your show you know like you see all the players do now sir. Plus one they're looking for the big for him for the votes I think he he kind of put that into my mindset. A little bit where. I wasn't smart player because I think I was which is part of the reason I was. I was pretty good but you know I wasn't that quick I couldn't defend that well so I had to just try to play as much offense early on in the point is I could. He's like why are you gonNa Forehand Crossword cross-court when you might as well take the first or second ball lines you can get it back in and get control the point earlier so it was kind of little things like that It was also a mindset just a belief that You know you can play with these guys. You can play with the top guys in the world. So part of what he did was try to change my mindset which is why he'd started getting me to practice with you know better players. More often dickey hurts man. That ain't no joke. You got to twenty eight. That's I. S S I mean. He was there when I made my run at the. Us Open. When I got into the corridors which was had success early in the nineties when I did the Sammy's of the Australian Open in and out of the top thirty top forty doing pretty well Couple of finals at some tournaments but ninety five bat year Dickie sort of really helped me kind of get over the Hump at the open because that was obviously a place where I thought over the years I should have done. Better is hardcore was my best service. It was relatively quick conditions usually by hometown. All that stuff there for me that Ron and so that was one of the great runs for me because it was a couple of Nice Comeback. Wins in that tournament. And even though I lost a becker in the corridors in a four setter I really felt like I probably played the best one best matched I ever played in that match just to keep it. Keep it that close and I was very close to turn in that match around. And taking it kept Steph. Last question about your brother What are your memories of Nineteen eighty-four Guy Lost? I think three matches were you. Were you front and Center for a lot of that year? Were you around you? What were you doing? I was playing. Juniors it's a big big big turning and did juniors that year so it was obviously an unbelievable year. Let me let me stop you just quickly for our listeners. In nineteen eighty four. John McEnroe basically. I think when eighty four and three and one three and a slams and didn't play offs Sorry lost the French to lendl right and it's considered you know. Probably one of the great years of an athlete there ever was period to get somebody is certainly up. There was a you know the greatest single years in tennis federer out of a year where he I think had four losses and maybe five or six couples federal had more longevity and consistency Madonna year for John was was tremendous that's when he obviously a dominated the Wimbledon final Goudie playing eighty four. Was IT It was it was. It might have been Chris. Lewis in eighty four which is just a complete beat down and You know but I'll tell you what I remember on on which unfortunately you know. John Remembers by better than any is the loss to lendl because I don't know if you're aware but I was playing in junior French. Open at the same time and I was in the junior doubles final. Okay the same day is immense final. Johnny gets Endel. I was playing with Luke Jensen And we have one we actually were. GonNa go on and win Kalamazoo that year junior nationals. And we were playing guests. Who in the finals of the junior double Riglewski and Boris Becker? Guy and Becker was like fifteen so we were in the locker room and John was destroying lendl two sets to love and a break in the third and the referee from the French Open. Came into the locker room in San Hey we're GONNA put you guys on center court because we were scheduled to go on the other court and for the matches going so fast that they said we're just GonNa put you know we need another match on centre quite unlike. Can you believe this like my brother's going to win the French and I'M GONNA go? I'm GonNa get the play like right. After this is amazing. Parents had flown over that morning. Just for the final. Come over and they're you know the route. I arrived that morning there in the crowd and of course you know shit starts to hit the fan. John Loses it. A couple of photographers. Glues is the third sat very very much ended in a force. What did he run out of gas? Yeah he didn't run out of gas until the end. I mean maybe maybe midway through the fourth he started getting tired but I think it was. You know it was one of those things where you're you're you're right there. You're so close. And he will say to this day. That's you know that wants things more than any other So just to finish quick story. Then I'll tell you another story. What happened after is so they finally put. They waited till the floor. Set was over two and with two cents off a move the courts. Now I gotta go out and play junior doubtful Speidel. There's like seven people in the crowd. You Know Boris his coach maybe a USDA coach for us. I don't even remember and I'm listening to the score you know like I'm like Oh man. So of course. He loses seven five in the fifth right And I see my parents league game or two later. Come walking into Mike and now I feel like you know why it is a ghost. Can you so I ended up winning that match up? So he said the McEnroe's went one and one that day but I think we would've taken the reverse of that but the but the last piece of this story which I think tells you a lot about John and also the mindset of of of a great champion that he was I said to him later that night we were all out. Peter Fleming I think was there too is good buddies doubles partner and me being you know. Seventeen year old kid. I what do I know? And I said John don't worry about it and you're GonNa get you're GonNa get another chance you know you're GonNa win this thing and he's like that was my shop jams he goes. I think he knew he was never gonna get that chance again. You know he was GonNa Win Wimbledon. He is going to win the US Open but at the French you know everything was clicking and he knew that overall you know Lendl V. Land or those guys were were madder clay court players and that to me said a lot about like you know I learned from him later in my career plans to double more together and doing well my that ability to like just like we gotta do it now like we this is it like this is the moment you gotta grab the moment right now and he he had that sort of intensive. It's incredible because I think board was similar in that way. And that's in some ways what board just left so quickly when he was like. Okay like macaroni. Beating may now. I'm Outta here. Which is why. It's more amazing when you look at this group of great players that we've seen the last ten fifteen years. Roger Rafa Novak. They sort of have had a lot of these similar type losses but yet they move on and they keep going and they don't look at it like that was my only chance they keep coming back so. I think that it said a lot about that time with my brother and kind of what his mind said but how the mindset of these players sort of evolve did nineteen eighty-four break him thinking you know he's still was He still was right there at the top. But if you look at You know his major is it Saturday. I think I'm you're broke him but you know it was definitely the end of his run. As far as being number one. Dominant my in my storyteller. Mind it's like the quest for perfection. 'cause he was just such a really he's really an artist on it's different than others and that quest for perfection like it took all his energy is. I think I think there's some truth to. I mean I think that You know 'cause he was as I said it was so it was so close there at at the French. That was funny. Wanted to win. And you and as you noted which we should all remember when you look at the total number of majors right Oregon. My brother and they could care less about the Australian Open in those year. They've even play it. John only played like later in his career. Connors played at a little bit more sporadically. But for those guys top players it was an afterthought is or majors. Imagine Jonah's seven. Pm Planes Austrailia every year. Yeah also wasn't a real thing. The Australian man you win over there now. I was a different a different deal. You ever believe you be twenty five years at ESPN. Now I mean that's amazing seven especially how started it was just kind of You know I fell into an opportunity. I had done a little bit of broadcasting overseas actually A guy by the name of Bill threatful who is a great commentator who used to work for English and he'd worked for the BBC and he worked for a couple of different European networks so at that time they were doing a Lotta European term is like with one announcer. Build oftentimes was the announcer. He was already pretty. You know been around a long time older guy but I just love listening to him and he invited me a couple of Just various players that come into a match just to try to get someone else to talk to and I raise my hand and did it with him and then the next opportunity I got was actually. I believe with USA network when they were doing a similar thing at the US Open and John was actually plane at that time. And they believe was I think it was Ted Robinson and vitas whereas up beat us one of my heroes etc. So they had me come on and do a sap during one of John's Mansions And so that's sort of land to me get an opportunity with ESPN shortly thereafter favorite tournament. Australian Open Favourite Court Centre Court Wimbledon favourite city other than New York. Because that's my probably Paris New York and Paris. Where do you keep your trophies scattered throughout my house I get quite a few of my basement. Actually took where do you keep your Do You keep your credentials. Yes I do and are a box. Does the box and my wife keeps saying like one day. You're GonNa do something you should do. They're still in a box. You got him from the whole your whole life. No I'M GONNA say more from like me. Latter years of playing and then broadcasting big entourages or lean and mean. I couldn't afford answer us very lean very lean. Are you a fan of the big entourages? I mean I'm not a huge fan but I'm But it is what it is you know. I don't I don't like I don't read too much into it as sort of the nature of the beast I used to. I used to laugh like winning a watching College Basketball Games. You know you have these these legendary coaches or guides. There's only five people plane. There's guys there's more coaches than player. Yeah Yeah I mean so football I sort of get it because You know there's so many different like areas but tennis. Tennis is funny now becoming like now. You can't if you're a top player. It's not good enough just now. You have one coach. You have to have two coaches so talk about the rich getting richer. Davis Cup Lava Unbelievable greatest professional experience in my life winning the Davis Cup as a captain Labor Cup awesome event so much fun I mean players. Players love it. Huge Passion is tennis. As more of that. What is what what the people like. What a fans like Don Imus Radio Legend but You know had his quirks. I wanted to ask you about that. I felt for our listeners Patrick as he was coming up in broadcasting did the did the sports on the imus show. You know I have to tell you. I'm I didn't listen to a lot of it when you did that because I always listen to radio when I'm driving and I lived in New York and I didn't drive obviously but I felt like you got a lot of reps on that show did did. Did that help you improve definite? Okay yeah well first of all you had to be incredibly organized with what you're going to say so every word counted. Because you didn't have a lot you wouldn't give you a lot of time. And if he didn't like what you are doing need give you less time so it was almost like you had to be entertaining. You get to the point. You had to be energetic just to get time you know just to be able to get off so you always had to be like very prepared what you also had to be prepared to go in any direction imaginable. So I don't have pages of stuff written now like report of what happened in the Knick game or what happened in this game and a lot of times you wouldn't even get you as you might just come up and just you know. Throw anything out there so you. It was his balance of having to really be prepared because there's sometimes when he would throw Gio and he would leave and go to the bathroom so that is an okay. You got on your. Oh Yeah and then there were times when macro. What are you who the hell cares about this? This is terrible to be prepared for any that? I felt like the also the Times I heard him. Once I would call you like a tour and like the second Mac and now just torture you will. He did that to everybody so you didn't. I didn't take that too personally but that was sort of a step back and But in a way you can tell if he liked you and he did like me like immaculate actually. My Dad was a huge fan of his. And my dad actually helped me get the audition you know which. I did like a live auditioning. He was auditioning people looking for somebody new to come in. Yeah oh I went in there. Just basically like on a lark and You know I I did it for almost two years. Espn's tennis coverage last question I think it's come a long way. You know we've always You know I was there from the beginning being yet but the beginning you know as far as ESPN really getting heavily into the majors you know so. We used to go and do the Australian Open and we laugh about it now because now we have this amazing crew of you know over what we did at least until a couple of years ago over hundred people That would fly over from the US. And when I started out it was you know me. Click dry down Bob Feller and Bob Prosper announcers the producer in the tractor. And you know before that. Obviously you know fiery Fred was was great. That was how I started doing doing courtside for them so I think you know. Espn started kind of doing it on the fly. We used to do seven days at the all the masters event so and then I was transitioning to you know being a big network covering it so I think you know. Obviously there is the economics and usual which serve the real tennis fans that up on a C serene on Roger up six one four up and show another match where it's two two relative unknowns playing a four or five sadder are a women's match going the distance we kind of have to balance like to the real tennis fan but then to the sports fan who if they turn on their TV and they see subpoena. They'RE GONNA keep it up and see Roger they're gonNA keep it. They don't really care about the score so I think we've kind of found a pretty good balance of trying to do. Both you know particularly those first weeks of the majors to where you know obviously focusing on the stars because the star is obviously do sell the sport in general owned by the way man. If anyone has any real complaints they should just run. Run the tape back to e six for exactly the French Open. Final at ten. Am a you know you got every match there is on ESPN PLAZA ESPN THREE ESPN? It's been it's been awesome for me because I've been there as I said you know from what we would sort of skeleton team. And now we've got you know so many different broadcasters so many great people working in production that I think Espn is put a lot of its muscle behind tennis. Which by the way is great for tennis? I still I still try to get us. You know I'm always fighting with them to try to get us on. Sportscenter and on the radio shows more often and usually. It's a big controversy that you know they call me. Can you come on a show? I would like to see happen more. I keep fighting the good fight to try to put tennis out there on the overall network a little bit. One could make a change in the sport without any real significant aggravation. What would it be? Well I think just talking in this podcast with you. I think that you know as I've thought about it through this global pandemic I think that putting a men's and women's tours as one would be would be a good start I've often thought that Structuring tennis a little bit more like golf where there's a PGA tour. There's a basically a tour in the United States and then a European tour and Asian tour. That's something I think we should consider although I'm not sure about that because you know tennis what makes tennis. Great is its global nature the ages of the major Raleigh. Everything around the majors So in that sense it's kind of like it's already in a way already happening. You know because federal of the world you know they're not gonNA come in play San Jose and in those tournaments. So you know. Those tournaments thrive back in the eighties. Because my brother played and connors played and then Sampras and Agassi carrier played and asks drives those mid market events man. You know the the majors. The masters events are now hugely successful. Goran said the same thing yesterday so they gotta figure out a way to get these bigger players in these big stars to play these to play these other events men. I want so. It's all about money in economics than obviously they gotta take care of themselves but I would. I would like to see that. Be Part of it. I like the You know the attention that we've had in the last year or two years with the team events of the Labor Cup. I thought the A. T. ATP Cup was successful. You know the Davis Cup is always been been amazing. That's gone through some transition But I do think that people like those you know we in the tennis world after look at people like what fans want you know so forgetting so much about well you know this tournaments been here for so many years. Okay great I mean I understand. People got pissed off Or going to take the date September. Well in a way part of me is like okay. Like let's throw all this stuff up in the air and see where we all come down and see what the fans and I think like the Labor Cup is a great example of putting something together that you know fans love and so why. Why get rid of that? I mean you sold out in Prague all down in Chicago. You sold out in Geneva. You celebrate a sell out in Boston. Although he just announced they just announced. It's to move to next you but I think those are the kind of things that we have to find a way to keep intense hundred hung him. And I'm glad that you Are Moving through the disco vintage situation. Well thank you for the time last thing. Just the the the podcast. You're you're focuses on the most interesting people you can find. Who Loved Tennis? Is that right right? Yeah that's that's at least the initial my initial series. You know that I'm doing so I've had some great Gas Brian Koppelman was my first guy. Who's Co created billions afraid movies so he's huge tennis fan? Alan Bergman who's one of the Great Lear- assist songwriters of all time by the way? The Bergman episode is bad to the bone man. Those kind of people like you story. How got into tennis? Just gave me the chills here. Yeah so coming up. I've got Dick by towel coach. Who LOVES TENNIS IS KANSAS GRANDKIDS? All played at a really high level. Oh He's unbelievable supporter of China's host his own tournament college tournament every down in Florida. So that's coming up Ben Stiller Fun who plays a lot in our tennis academy so I got to know him a little bit you know. He's a fan of pro tennis but he got into playing tennis Like in his forties. So I'm just like really impressed with people that got into tennis. Like even later in life biggest. Tennis is freaking hard to get good at. You know that's the other thing I've learned in working with kids especially at our academy is again really good at tennis. Takes a lot of time and it's really difficult so when I see people like that are hugely successful in another part of the world in in their life professional life. Whether it's an actor you know of finance person a singer. Whatever it is I got seal. Who's coming to do was seal because I've played with him a talent and these people like unbelievably accomplished right in what they do. And yet they're willing to go out there and basically be beginners at Pappas and spend hours playing to like make exponential improvement. I find that fascinating and I find it. Incredible to talk to people like that and kind of try to get in their mind like why tennis. So that's really what I Bunch of podcasts are about him and I promise we will see each other down the road and just thank you very much peace to your family and all your people and you are released. That's it all right man. Listen I thank you for having me on and it's awesome that you keep doing this or doing a great job and you say all my so cal. Tennis buddies out there not all right. Okay thank you everybody thank you Patrick. Mcenroe and I'd like to thank Sergio too keen. See what they're doing it. Sergio Teeny Dot Com when you get to checkout use my code Craig. Thirty in all caps for thirty percent discount macklowe edited and mixed the show or music by Bryan Senti. We'll be back next time with one of the most interesting voiced in the sport. Until then I'm Craig Shapiro and you released.