Ep 176: Perfume, Tattoos, and Skateboards with D.S. & Durga's Co-Founder


Hey guys it's that Mascara and it's JEN minus jess who is in L. A. Visiting her friend but I have a fun Co host David Seth Smoltz what's up yeah he's here so we're GonNa talk about topics at the top like we usually do and then do an interviewed David. David is the CO founder of Durga fragrances so he's going to be our big interview but before that he's GonNa play podcast co host okay so the things we're going to talk about first I up can the street where model of selling move its way into the beauty industry and then David and I share a love of tattoos so we're GonNa talk about Tattoo who care but also really just inc an artist okay. Let's get into it. Hey guys it's jess okay big news Sephora beauty beauty insider community. Have you checked it out yet. Okay so I've discovered it and I've gone into an absolute like rabbit hole of chatting with other people checking out people's look. CD You can take a picture and upload your own is very exciting. You can even chat with brands. Get exclusive invites to events. I mean this is a beauty. I wonder land online. I cannot believe I didn't discover it sooner so do yourself a favor if you're crazy about beauty or even if you're a beauty newby head over to Sephora the Ford Dot com slash community he can get started in that. PD insider community today and I will see you there. Hey guys here's a question. When's the last time you washed pillowcase? Yikes gross okay if you guys pause to think. Maybe it's been a little bit. You need a still von pillowcase. Your pillow case is basically a breeding ground for bacteria. Asari and the Sylvan pillowcase is woven with natural silver that illuminates acne causing bacteria to promote clear skin and also their blended with before you think it's all hard and metallic their blended with the pima cotton which as you know as the softest comfy cotton you find so surprised they're super soft and silky like a regular sheet. You would have no idea there were silver in there and then I mean I'm not saying I washed them less often but you can 'cause they're silver. Yeah just like a nice you know gives you peace of mind it does and Sylvan is giving our listeners twenty percent off just visit Sylvan home dot com. That's S. I. L. V. O. N. Home Dot Com and enter the Promo Code Fat Mascara. That's twenty percent off its Slovan Home Dot Com with the Code Fat Mascara so David and I read this article business business of fashion what beauty can learn from st where I thought of you and I read this article because I don't know if you remember this you have a lovely store down the leader for Durga and I got there one day to look at some new fragrance and you had this t shirt that I had seen on instagram unlike cool people but I didn't know where it came from and it was really exclusive and it said said to me yeah it's made with our friends monitoring. I know so I was like he knows about this. This model of selling wherein the exclusivity is the thing right great so I guess it's supposedly is but I had a long like think about this. After I gotta say like I don't know if this is cool but contrary to that article I I really think in terms of like inclusion I am not like our our brand is what it is and we wanna make fun little things as say like texture items. Just like you know just because we can and it's fun things to do but I would. I don't like the idea of being like only this people can have but like anyone who walks in the store. I'd love to talk to them about fragrance or they can email or like I just really believe in like pushing perfume and like the art of perfume to more people so so the writer who was Rachel Stugotz she was talking about how glossy kind of in on this like actually you're kind of near their their space downtown. They have lines out out the door. The way that like footlocker does when there's new shoe drop or traffic looks to pre premium one yeah yeah so listen if it's not manufactured if it just happens like a is walking by supreme in London last week and it takes you a while because you see these lines and you're like what is that like supreme store why why is it so there's only like two people in the store at once and they wait. Why can't you allow like twenty people in the store or or ten? I just don't understand it if it's manufactured than I feel like that's not that fair to the consumer but if it's because like in supremes case like everyone does want this limited thing then I totally do get it so if it happened that you know we made something in there was like a lie and you have to do it fine but I don't I wouldn't WanNa go personally with the model of making I do like making like small limited things again for fun but I wouldn't WanNa do it to like as a business as a business model to exclude anyone. That's the thing I also think as I was reading this they were talking about. Melanin gets did a a line with kith. AH DID ESTEE LAUDER. I was like the minute you start talking about. This is Your Business Philosophy. You immediately become true or not true like Oh. I'm only GONNA to make one hundred of these and then you actually tell the pressure only making one hundred then every kind of like you suck yeah I guess again. I feel like if you're doing Senate for the buzz and not it's very different because one of the things makes our companies are different is that I really am the perfumer and Kavi really is the designer right so we are like making this like art piece thing that we love this story and then they presenting it to you whereas traditionally a perfume brand is more like someone has ideas and they go to a perfumer Mer and they're like hey. Can you make something that smells like my grandmother's house in the sixties or whatever and that person doesn't know the grandma has never been there they translate that person's idea so they are our marketing. Someone else's like art and so you have to think of it in terms of like you know. How are we gonNA market this thing whereas ours we're not thinking like I need to market this onto that person? It's this thing I made that I love and want to share so it's you know what about that T. shirt back that see shirt who made the t shirts that's our good friends. Monitors and I've always wanted to make a these t shirts that say like Iheart vetiver like I wanted it to be like the New York like her New York and like Pachulia misunderstood and like just little like things about perfume and there was going to be an old one and Lisa mayock came up with that and she said Teacher Company called Monogram Studio. They'RE OUT IN L. A. Their incredible credible I mean really so their t shirts or like really great fitting and for me like I just had the idea of like the look but they're the quality is so thin and nice and everything gang and so she did did that like very graphic like me the way it looks but you know like when it sold out it sold out but it wasn't like a on purpose. We're only making a few. It was just like we did this thing with our friends. Yeah you're not buying into this. Model is what I hear. You saying. That's fine yeah listen. I street wears red eye wear. You're like Jays and I I. I love hip hop in that whole culture so I I'm totally interested in making sense based on like hip hop or sports or skateboarding like I have many ideas in that realm so like stylistically I love it so if supreme came to you and your and they were like we wanna make the Durga skateboard them in addition decks yeah. Let's do it Okay David. How's it? How's it been being the CO host so far? It's really fun. We should give you podcast. Yeah Okay in the next you are both that's why I asked you to come on this town trying very hard to talk slow though every single time I hear myself on podcast man. I'm just like yes and high pitched. I just heard I think also I might just be over caffeinated. Sometimes I talk really. Let's have a nice she'll tattoo chat tattoos. It's to talk with David and Jen Surf your water. That's okay so I noticed this about you. Actually News about Kaveh Your Wife I. She has some Amazing Inc.. I love her snake on her hand but you also have a lot of tattoos right. Have you been getting them me not as long she's Adam since she was very young me only four years ago. Oh really forget you. Where's coffee she? I know I'll tell you this I worked at Saint Helen's Cafe Faye when saved open and Scott Campbell's attached to everyone for free and I like just didn't fuck so severely I guess he was trying not to curse it. That's okay Scott Campbell's apparently making dollar bills into art and they're selling for like he was doing that even back then he was he was tattooing the inside of eggshells that guy is like one want to the one unbelievably talented artists like CG attitude but just straight up artist on wheel. Do you have any work from him away. He wouldn't even answer my email. Okay Okay so if you've only been getting tattoos for years I'm curious because I just got a new tattoo and for the first time when they gave me after care I got this stuff called I think it was called sheeting like senator shouting and it was like Oh yeah I've seen that did you. Have you ever gotten nestle. No okay so it's like a clear sheet that they usually they just like put the Gauze ause on it and whatever clear sheet they put over top this. You're gonNA like this so she's like okay. You know your usual two to three days before you can wash it. She said it's going to start to look like a broken soya sauce packet in there so it like Jews up the juices but then normally that would go on the gauze rights reason though like that this is sure reasons senator sheeting. It's just a lot of this is very in our life just way too much over thinking you know copy. Does nothing literally okay so I used to do nothing in most Artis Chris I think it depends on the studio like the less you do the better you don't need special products you want to keep it moisturizes but not to moisturised clean it well with non fragrant in soap after three days. Battling boom stuff was really cool because I could get it I could go in the shower and it wouldn't get wet and when I finally peels it off three days later here it was like it was already in the fees. Do you know what I mean and then normally it was quicker. I think it was definitely quicker than if you do nothing scabs over pretty quick I find signed but I see so. I'm going to start picking it the little scab yeah me too and then you attach a I know so what do you do well so I just follow my instincts where where where I if it feels really raw. I personally do want cream. I want like lotion or whatever on it like epic oil like I just put like you know like an olive oil oil coconut oil but then if if you do that obviously it's delaying like getting crispy right yeah so like if you can hold out but it's there's nothing worse that last night when you're going to sleep and like rubbing on the pillow buy Thi I my back like huge piece on her back so little join asleep oh that that feels painful. Who did your big back piece Mika Singer? Oh she's great. She's my Fav- I mean she does most of my tattoos and we have collaborated. We do this tattoo residency at attias Durga. We tell me about this. What is that yet so we we've done it twice now? We're GONNA do it like quarterly and we we've done it with her where she makes flash inspired by our sense of his little thing and so if you buy a bottle that day you come in you buy a bottle you can get a free tattoo. You can pick like you know Alfred debase or there's an eyeball being sliced with a with a nice. These aren't the little drawings that Kavi draws to go on the like car things and whatever no no she does your own version. It's it's MINGKA's making the flash so there is like an acorn like a skull for like Mississippi Messing with sneak coming out of it. They're so awesome. I haven't been able to get them from her because it's like that there's a line out the door and it sells out by one pm this guy did your podcast hosts already so let me ask this. was there more public where people picking their scent based on the flash that they wanted to re- were you seeing they bought their for fragrance and whatever pictures like they're like. This is my favorite scent. I'm so into the Senate. I'm getting the flash flash for it and then some yeah I think it was more than that. The visual thing 'cause it wasn't everyone it was we didn't she didn't do for everyone. Although after we do a few times hopefully she'll have the flash for all of them. Then we did a mother's Day one where it was all I cou like mom things and like flowers and like hearts and moms and stuff so it's really about like that flash and you do that right there in the store yeah it's and you're storing ALITA. has those great windows like get double. I'd be standing outside will more question this. Were there any like Tattoo. Virgins regions and there I had to is like a Durga too. I think there was someone no way I think there was also like our president that we hired she got she came in and got a tattoo from Inca. Her first one is amazing. She has no other tattoos. You can never fire this woman. which when did she get to remember that she got a feather unarm okay and so when people left there they just like Gaza whenever the typical because they're small you can only do one every thirty or forty minutes so it sold out by basically one PM nice? When's the next next residency We'll definitely do unlike probably November October November so okay if people want to find out about that or if some other equinoxes event in the future what's the website dot com got it okay or you know our instrument okay cool. Are you ready for the interview Hashtag. Get ready everyone here we go. We're interrupting in your favorite beauty podcast. I'm Jen. I'm jess. What are we talking about Sephora? They have this beauty insider community that I have been absolutely like stuck in. It's addictive. Here's the scoop it's an online community comprised of forums photo guys live chats product reviews. It's basically glee a treasure trove of for the beauty obsessive and if you're listening to scare have a weird feeling in my view okay. My favorite form is the conversations because there's some times free products cook also shop your stash challenges you. Can you get to win products. Honestly let's be honest. That's why I like it and I'm a social animal jen you so I really like the groups because you can chat like digging on all your beaty passion so whether you have oily skin this group for you for a lip lover. If you're clean beauty fanatic there is a group or probably many groups oops just waiting to rejoin the CONDO. It's real people real time real talk so you guys head over to Sephora DOT com back slash community to get started in the beauty insider community today that Sephora Dot Com backslash community. Hey guys just from fat miscarriage here. I am so so happy that we're heading into fall not only do I love the Chris cold weather but I'm all about fall clothes. Bring on the Leopard prints bring on those yummy autumnal colors. I'm here for it but I am not going to be spending my whole savings on a brand new wardrobe. I'm just going to sign up for Harvard. Ash Hadash lets you create a virtual closet and and then you can select three items at a time and they'll send you the clothes he can run them as often as you like swap them in and out and the whole thing's only fifty nine dollars plus. If you fall in love with something you can buy it for a discounted price which is really nice so head over to have her dash dot com sign up today and there are no commitments and you can cancel at any time time okay so if you don't know who I'm talking to yet you do now. It's David Seth malts. He he is the CO founder of Durga Niche Fragrance brand your other co founders your wife Kavi who that's the last name got it okay. It's not Durga no does and her nickname. Oh cute okay so before we start our interview I wanted to. We like to do little flash around sort of I'm going to take you on a cent journey or actually you're. You're GonNa take me on a journey a little short questions okay so describe to me the smell or the first that comes to mind when I list off a few places ready uh-huh New York City in early October which is when this podcast is airing. What is New York's Melik? Can we be more specific about where we are in New York too huge city. That's very true. Okay right outside your house when you come outside the door. I don't know where you live. Okay bed Stuy in early October. I mean you're going to get that dried leaf smell right. If it's nighttime. It has a bacon tinge to like my cat used to come inside in the wintertime. I grew up north of Boston in the suburbs and you smell his for and his smell a little bit like bacon like fall night. It's crazy as the name of the CRAISINS CR- crystal like CR. ESPN like oh well yeah. That's that's the smell of like the smoky Tari Smell. Isn't there like a Bush in the out west. That is smells like that and has yeah is it. The same smell l. No creosote smells like desert rain. It's a really weird smell. We have the scent L. Cosmic. Oh and it's their favorite from there you go so is in that I mean not the accord of Greece and it smells bazaar like really green overly fresh though it is the sense of when it rains in the desert because this is the name of the chemical that the green plants give off in the rain cruel okay we'll. Do you answer the question a question. I didn't even know I had because you think increase increase and then people are also thinking creosote is the word for like a tar left over like oil and it's not the same okay see sometimes those aroma molecules sounds like the Latin root helps me remember there. They are the same okay good to know all right the inside of your car but then I realized maybe you don't even have a car but yeah we do have a car car. What is it well? We had the nineteen five mercedes-benz turbo diesel. That's why we have that. Kendall called eighty-five diesel. It smells like that okay so it's that's a crazy smell right street legal eagle and eighty five diesel yeah off the street now though but so that's diesel now we just drive like a Honda CR V. and it smells like snacks kids snacks Goldfish Grom fish crumbs okay nice what's the smell of the best hotel you've ever visited. And what hotel was it the best hotel I stayed at I mean the my edvin palace in Jodhpur India okay or the lake palace in for the Lake Palace. I like better but the the one in Judah pour injured more the the the palace. Yes called the whom I above and I mean it's like staying in Buckingham Palace. It's in Saint. What does it feel like in there so it smells like a really like jazz mini incense like like Super Indian incense cool beautiful in fact the Maharaja still lives in the building is half the Maharaja still lives there today and half of it is Oh is Chris Nice? Okay the Fat Mascara Studio that you're in right now. The the sound prevent yes. It has like a very specific like you know like movie theater type smell. Oh Hey hey it's. It's like a synthetic carpet. We need to get a candle always Chalky Chawki in here jockey. That's it yeah all right there. You Go now. Let's get into it just on the same note. What's the earliest sent memory you have definitely lemon soap soap in the in the shop like you would take like spices and mess with stuff in the sink and so I can remember that smell of the like the lemon soap in there but also I grew up with woods right behind my parents house that had that bacon smell that we're talking about of like you know leaves but the ocean was right down the street like you know half a mile and so my town is such that you around two or three o'clock like a seabreeze always comes up and it smells like the ocean? It's omnipresent where you know it's in swamps got Massachusetts so the ocean would be like to me like not only the first childhood memory but it also has that like primordial like thing the ocean and your origin story the slow getting into your origin story actually Aren't you a musician like how did you even even get into perfumery so yeah I was like as a musician waiting tables and we started. I wanted to just make some of my I you got all these old manuals of making creams and lotions and tonics and I wanted to make a bedroom I had this didn't last and I was like why can't it just make it myself so I bought like rum and spices and Megan and it didn't last why doesn't this last and so I started. I'm just like an obsessive person as far as like creatively I will go down a rabbit hole Poland figure it out so that I just started getting oils and then synthetics and just like it. I went so deep into it and Kavi who was my girlfriend at the time was like why why don't we just start a business. Everyone's doing it. It was like you know it was in Brooklyn and like two thousand and nine like just put an percent on exactly like every it happened and Co like everything. was you know it was like that and our friends had started businesses jewelry and close ties shoes you know so and then I thought okay so we did that and it took off really quickly and then I slowly realize like oh wow I can sort of translate what I'm want to talk about in in music into fragrance and as I became better at at putting the hours into understanding how to create fragrance you know that could sort of talk about it even better in music no matter what if I wanna make a song that sort of China sound like Thirteenth Eighteen Century Viking music you'll probably be able to tell like I'm a white guy from America that mostly plays in four four time and like grew up knowing the blues like I can't get rid of that but if I make something that smells like Thirteenth Century Viking sent like I'm not in it. You can't tell I did it could more. I can make that realistically smells like an Old Castle like an old hut type thing you know I love. I feel like there's more creative power in in that that I that I can like maybe even do more. I mean I'll always always want I still make music just came out with an album last year. I made sense that go along with its command. It's on spotify. H I K O men and I'm in a Surf Band you know we played at the store and set so I'm like never going to give up that dream. It's it comes up every once in a while and I also so just write music all the time like I probably have written five hundred songs in my life. I have so many songs and so so you're basically a self top perfumers when so I feel like if someone was wanting to get into perfumery would you recommend that route yeah I would say just if you have the love for it then yeah by as many materials Israel's as possible. Get a scale and write down every single thing that you did all the perfume is at the end of the day is the difference in weight between materials. I I wish someone had told me that 'cause I created a whole system that was based on volume and volume changes as as it's hotter or drier in the air but I measured out in drops how many things could fit into like eighth a teaspoon all the way up to like cups and gallons of every single oil because they were all different but let's just oils sales but also you were ordering him imagining like anything anything that I was making so. It's just like if if any perfumers they'd laugh like it's ridiculous what I was doing so all these base formulas. If you go to perfumery school you can look you can learn stuff online and everything I think it is a matter of like training your nose understand and even when you do figure out how to make something the big hurdle is regulatory stuff. You can't just make something in your house because and put twenty percent jasmine and like most most people don't know you can only put point six percent jasmine in a perfume so that wasn't the case like before. I think two thousand twelve right. Why did they change that? You know you're like Benzyl. Alcohol is something it's in there and it's a sensitisers so some things are just 'cause like a certain amount of the population can have a sensitivity to it or an allergic reaction. Some of it is because it's carcinogenic agenda some because when you go out in the sun it could give you a rash so the board that makes these rules if Ross is trying to put their best foot forward and make perfume as safe as possible for people right but there's a huge disconnect between what the consumer knows and what like a hobby perfumer know what someone who really makes perfect yeah. I've dabbled in then realized Oh wow I probably just made this thing. That could probably kill someone because some of those molecules are really well. Oh it's the opposite. The molecules are fine if the naturals are actually the people think like oh all natural must be safe like you know white. Birch oil is extremely toxic but if you you know I so he's super like velvet tone not not so much you know but white white Birch is your winter green or I mean Al- Almost all regulations that come out these days is about naturals. It's about a chemical within natural. Your body doesn't doesn't care if you put methyl usual directly on your skin or you put rose has methyl eugenol. It's the methyl Eugenol that causes a reaction for someone okay so we have to go in and either clean like Di Molecular still the rose and take out the methyl eugenol or you have to build a rose record. That doesn't have that in it you know or there's a safety threshold. It's it's a whole hole so if you're thinking about something then I'll get back on track with the self with self taught pre perfumery if you're looking at something like rose like how many of those types of molecules make up like what you'd think of as rose smell. Oh Yeah it's interesting. I don't know the answer to how many chemicals make up like completed rose but I understand very very much how to make a rose accord and I will say that you need something that smells like lemons cloves geraniums and violets and then sort of this this the Damask owns which is like an apple juicy type smell. If you have those together you start getting towards like rose and so much of perfume is like a house of cards parts you like add another card and it makes seem like the roses there. If you take out one that would fall apart and I'm sure in the right volume you can have three of this three this three this but if you put for one on that smells completely different case so if you go to school for years and years and years and you get the books where there's the basic formulas like here's a rose. Here's how you build a cords. The now that you mix in perfumery world you guys are like up for awards and things when you run into perfumers that went to gross and they did the whole rigmarole. Do you ever have tension with them or they ever looked down upon do things no listen. There's more astronauts in our perfumers right there so that true there's so few fruit few people who actually make make perfume know how to make the formulas there's just not that many and so literally the people that I've met like mark box extent Sean Lee Peregrine I mean all these people know they're they don't they don't tend to have the craziest ego. That's the way they're like portrayed uh-huh but I don't think so as they if you're making a perfume and putting it out aren't you a perfumer like who cares like Joe. Sacha Yanni and and Keith Richards is always example. Who's a better guitar player? Joe Saturday on here Keith Richards well. I'm going to go with Keith Richards because I have no idea who the other guy is okay well. That's funny so yeah. Joseph Johnny plays four million notes. A minute and technically you know is like guitar guitarist like this like these people who play like a million nodes band that I may right now. It's probably called his name j-o-s-e out Yanni musician though in Guitar magazine they'd be like he's one of the best guitarist ever but Keith Richards who plays like you know. I don't think he's sloppy like yeah but you could practice and learn to play Joe such Yanni your you can't learn how to play Keith Richards or link wray or muddy waters utters or East Bay ray joe sat triana perfume or Keith Richards. I mean come on either. One is going to sound like a big ego. I'm staying away from that one but let's say it doesn't matter I just if I make if you make it you you do it you are if you make music musicians Macra femural perfumer but so and I don't I think the perfumers who are trained care. I've only met one other like self top performer in and he works at furnish so I've met a lot of people that are self taught perfume. I and I'll tell you this a lot of shit to be perfectly honest and I think the rare thing is that this company but actually people buy your stuff and it's gotten bigger and bigger over the last ten years. What's been the biggest challenge for you like you're like okay? I knew the smell good but getting it into a bottle and the regulation stuff you're like in the beginning. Yes listen. I can put twenty percent jazz in almost anything anybody smells really good so that's like a an easy trick. It probably would have fly flown ten years ago but it's not how it is anymore. You have to follow certain regulations right and so to be able to know how to make something that smells like it has twenty percent. Jasmine does not takes a lot of like know how to figure that out so we've been talking a lot about you mentioned that can this eight hundred Palate Oregon. What do you call it the organism okay? How many of those do you think are natural versus? How many of those are just like pure molecular synthetic things ordered on the interwebs which is not probably Kelly how you do it right yeah? That's I'd have to think I mean at least fifty fifty but but yeah I mean synthetics are somewhat more important to the art of perfume than naturals but you could you could never purely synthetic fragrances pretty drab in lots of ways other like we make a are sent. I don't know what which is now our bestseller. Oh really isn't that so you can do it and then that one of the molecule ones that everybody likes molecule q one two three four those or purely synthetic. I'm asking this question because there's a lot of talk about trying to natural perfume marine a lot of people thinking like the the one ingredient oriented they think is the most bothersome that could cause allergies that might have an estrogen effects cancerous synthetic fragrance because you don't know what's in it so the very opposite everything you said just care is all most of the problems go read any like aromatherapy book. Almost there's like a list like don't give this for pregnant people. The naturals is it's just chemicals again like uh packers will acetate is naturally present here or there is a natural like oh I extracted this from the plant and premier is going to be really tough to okay first and foremost what most people expect their perfume to smell like is not what a natural provincials number one so they'll and it's stronger at the front and lasts less okay so a a good perfume should be like pleasant in the front and last quite a while so it's kind of inverse to that right like whoa. This is crazy muddy. Oh it lasted two hours so already you're getting that and the perception sometimes is like I spent spent some this much money this amount of money on it it should last long as if as if like the more something cost the last year long the longer it lasts. Take that yet but it's just it's just not true militarily speaking right I mean the things that lasts the longest on your skin are like crazy industrial cheap like aldehydes type stuff right the a dash of it lasts forever so that that you have to get over number one that but safety is oh. My God put an all-natural perfume into like a safety check the you can't use point six percent jasmine. You can use six percent vetiver point one percent oak moss point one percent rose and a lot of ways point six. I think for Lang Lang Lang I think of as like one of the healthier sweet oils in the world like I smell it on a plane to calm down. I would wear it on my skin but you're not supposed to you can only put in our formula that Costa market. You can only have point six percent. I it in there right. So what you're getting is that when you're working only with naturals you're limiting way down what the regulatory is limited. The cost is going to be exorbitant. Okay from from like can environmental sourcing perspective. It's not like to responsible compared to synthetics which can be you know sustainably right Reno of course there are practices like Robert A and I have really cool programs for sustainable naturals you know and so I use those all the time but so it's not not necessarily better for the environment use natural. It's not necessarily better healthwise. I believe now some people believe differently but yes those statements I agree with personal. Do you think if the people who make label ingredients you know just perform right now like inky standard labeling. Do you think if we were we had to break down into everything that's in it. It would benefit the customer in any way I've thought about doing it so so it's it's hard because there's such proprietary information and and the fragrance companies themselves who make the aroma chemicals they don't want like too much oversight and they're spending so much money doing like the safety testing and it's not like to go to market it has to be really like sound and it's all like certified by in order to do it. What does it for a stand for by the way he's been nap before international fragrance and research association somebody like that will oh? They're super important at the boards of it. Are I usually people from these these companies and what happened so how could a government regulate Alpha Alpha methyl I on on that. They don't even know what that is right so only the people who who make it connect and that's why we're not getting all that information proprietary also also people always use the were chemical. They're like ours. Their chemicals like chemicals bad like you know waters a chemical like everything you put in your body has chemical is not a bad term and synthetic to like I. I think it's really misunderstood. Got It so fragrances what you're hear you saying are more regulated on the front and then even like a face cream would be because of IFRA because you know you don't have to face groups. Don't get tested before people are allowed to sell them. They only pull them back. If there's a reaction but these a face cream is is is the highest of the highest cat so there's eleven categories of regulation right yeah and face cream. I think is like number two number one is like babies toys like children's toys but it's not like they had to go. Do you have to do safety testing but it's not like they tested on a bunch of because nobody does. Nobody know the governor that the company has to do with human repeat. There's you know like FDA tested this before it went to market. You do have to do a for cosmetics. You have to have attested yeah. Oh okay. What do you think I'm asking is? Do you think that for fragrances that you're more likely to have an a safety issue with another product other than fragrances or it's it's what's safe because like are people really like dying. That's a part of me thinks it's very much like overthinking in the kind of stuff right because were that well. I think we're very prone to question everything now right. We don't believe anyone or anything and people think like corporations are evil and that kind the whole thing and so you think that like being screwed over and it's like for like economy or people are putting like a unsafe say things but to me like people. Will I feel like I hope that you know I trust in like people and people are trying to do the best they can. In fact I would think it's much more dangerous to I mean it's not dangerous interest me but a handmade perfume someone's house or they distilled some oil from a tree that they found in a forest near their house like that is bonkers curse. That's not like how could anyone regulate that. Maybe that that thing was sprayed with. you know what yeah pesticides has two sides right and then it's going like who knows it and then they put so much carcinogenic things in there and and you really don't know so I took us way off Savak exile but I think it's so interesting because like the labeling thing like transparency. It's it's hard to go that route with molecule names that would take up the whole box anyway anyway yeah a Lotta Times their trade names right like someone discovers. A molecule is super one which is like di Di Methyl Jasmine. It's a much longer name. Isolate super is how they marketed it yeah right so it's how would you even go about him. Yeah okay back on track. What perfume came out in in recent years that you wish you had created the I? I do not think like that you don't there's nothing you admire at elsewhere. I admire things but I I don't have like okay. So what do you admire. That isn't from your brand. Oh sure tons I mean I like a lot of Frederick frequencies. I mean dummy groping. He makes amazing. Things like like portrait of a lady. I would say I think is is amazing thing. I wish I made that. That's a great great okay awesome yeah. It's amazing and what's your. What's your ingredient that challenges? Do you want to figure out to do something with. What's what's on your mind for the future man I don't know or what or place I know you? A lot of your fragrances have like US landscapes. I mean I have a million things I want to come out with a really good orange blossom been working on that. It's supposed to be done this month and October and then it's it's GonNa come out supposed to be done. Are you the one in charge yet but I've just like that's the deadline for like to show the sense to like press and stuff and I'm like not done with the yet. Even you're still tinkering still tinkering. It's it's it's a rabbit hole. 'cause it's GonNa be like you know our marketing marketing team of China be like Chemo Center yet to try to like make it by that time and listen I would've I'm usually way ahead of schedule but I've just gone down this rabbit hole because I want it to be. It's an enhancer thing like I don't know what where you can floor allies anything you can like an orange blossom what has like that orange blossom water type aspect which just like in livens Vince everything else it touches okay but doesn't but it's very like you know transparent and you could wear it by yourself or you could like enliven something else with it challenging. Ah Okay you said you're not a makeup person but we always like to end our interviews. With what are some of your favorite beauty products okay rooming products fine. You must have stuff in your hair. What's going on yeah? I love this on I. I don't know what this means. It's billy jealousy ever heard of them. Okay Yeah because they sell it at like the the haircut place that I go to Georgia's to in park slope shout out to them. They're awesome Georgia's to Georgia's one. It's like demonstrate from it I I it's right near the barklays man. They're the best okay and they have. They have this billy. Jealousy is called L. Mud because it's Matt Matt amount I really I really like that. generally people give us so much beauty products right and so we just like I'll just use that. I don't who are people who just walking up to you and giving you beauty products like Jordan Samuel who that is he has like an amazing line. He's given us a bunch of products that spend with me for a long time. I basically like Boris. Oh Guy Right. I Love Bar soap but I don't use much like I wouldn't wash. Ah I wash my face with a bar soap and everything I will if need like us like oil like aftershave or something there is something by I think they're called are Inco- yes. That's the hair brands well. They had this like this aftershave like oil thing. That smells like pine is really good and I I've just running out of it. Someone gave it to me for free like five years ago and like I'm GonNa buy this again at that is putting on the bog. Okay guess what our time is up done. How do we do was great is this? I'm on being your first co host auto podcast. Okay thanks for coming in. It's time for raising wand which I just pulled on you at the last minute so I don't know if you're prepared but you know what it's all about. What are you going to raise the one to this band Fontaine's? DC Fun Tab you know why do we need to listen to this banner. God it's there from Ireland from Dublin Okay and it's just like like great rock and roll. That's like not super super original but has like very original things about it. He sings in Irish accent unbelievably. Good lyrics likely zero pretension. They're so awesome I Osama bowery and I'm just like this. They're going to be huge. That's awesome okay. Well guess what I asked you what you really want to and I didn't have one prepared. We're going to end on that amazing. Thank you for the recommendation. Yeah thanks David. Thanks for listening fat. Mascara is produced by our

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