Episode 370: Kings vs. Blackhawks 2014 Rewatch


In two thousand and three nike signed thirteen-year-old freddie due to a seven figure contracts. But freddie didn't live up to the height he is turned down every single documentary project looking closely at the details of his career. Until now we're going to look at everything you did because of the hype surrounding your arrival. And what they think you can be. I'm grant wall. And this is american prodigy. Freddy do from blue. I or podcasts Pressing to the means twenty fifty. It's the hockey pedia. Cast with your host dimitri philipovich. Welcome to hockey. Pedio cast dimitrova povich and joining. Me is my good buddy jordan. Samuels thomas jordan goodman nothing just Enjoy my time here. In san diego obviously played here for a couple of years. So it's that time of year where everything it's cold but it's not too bad here so this enjoying the time not on the ice right now. Well i gave you some homework for your first appearance on the podcast and it's At least those watching a game was watched some tape. It was and it was a good one at that. Where you and i are going to do the rewatch of chicago. La from the two thousand fourteen west finals game seven in particular. But i guess we'll start off here because this is a good kind of introduction point for us let's not it up with sort of the legacy of this game where or when when i pitched you this idea you're pretty fired up to do with me. what what is your your your memories of this this series this point of time in hockey. Where were you at personally sort of just like getting into dipping your toes into the water here with with this particular game series. What are sort of the lasting impressions and kind of the the where where you end of it. Personally like for me. Like i was just Finishing up my master's at quinnipiac I would. I would actually want him. Getting trained to buffalo from winnipeg like a month after this but this was the series is particularly interesting to me. Because i grew up big. La chains fan Not necessarily as. I'm from california which i'm not but Just their style of hockey that that big power for six three can do have a little bit of everything that can score claes block shots and elliott a lot of them. So i know just for me When house you know develop my developing my game at quinnipiac and just try to work to be a pro. I was just like this organization is like they probably had five or six players who were like perfect in terms of a player that i wanna be and So i always enjoy watching the kings whether it's the run twelve or One that we're talking about today in fourteen just at the heavy style of play Dominant methodical a hard play against you know where you down if we do. Go game seven Hopefully you know the hard nosed play would pay dividends in terms of wearing the other team down and you know they just keep going there. Machines so That's kind of the background. How i looked at it then and then just now it's Just just to watch a well oiled machine. Kings were on how they battled through different adversity Especially going against a team. Like the hawks challenge them speed wise and skill wise. It's it was really fun to go back and watch that game. Yeah i think you hit the nail on the head there. Particle makes this matchup sort of legendary or so aesthetically pleasing and kind of adds to the drama is those stylistic differences the kind of make the fight right where you see it captured so perfectly in this game where the kings pretty much. Every time i think. I i know they score ones off the rush but otherwise like you can tell that every single time. They're coming down with the puck. They wanna get it below the goal line and they'll throw the body and try to win back possession and keep it down there and kind of ground and pound and sort of Just not allow chicago to go. The other way with speed off the rush whereas the blackhawks are built entirely differently where they wanna get more into that track. Meet run and gun. And there's a few instances throughout the game and highlighted them. We'll talk about that more later. Where and it was because l. a. kind of had to score so they opened up a bit and you could see the game starts to slip away from them where she goes clearly favored in that in that environment in that setting and then they quickly got back in and that sort of speaks to how well oh the machine. They were that they were able to keep them sort of in their grasp for the most part and kind of make them play the game. They wanted to play. But it's so evident watching this. Just how stylistically different teams are. I'm sure their game plans. Were polar opposites in terms of you know before the game and during the meetings where the coaches are telling them what they want accomplish tonight. I imagined they were a complete one eighty each other. Yeah definitely i mean it's funny because you bring up just how you know. La wasn't really looking to do too much op garage. They get in. They worked there for tax. Which is makes it really. Tough for the demand especially for the more active demand on the blackhawks. Like you know or keith. Where they're going to wear them down with the four check. And i think on both sides i think both teams chose quality scoring chances over quantity obviously There were a couple weird angle weird bounce goals at chicago scored. But i think they both chose quality scoring chances. Just general is it just went about it in a different way chicago. You know they would do it. Kind of just generalizing saying like a russian stop but the mike patrick kane was easy for him to pull up and You know to gretzky fall for a better option or you know side doing the same thing and then you have. La where they're not necessarily pulling it up if they don't like off the rush they'll put it in on the goal line they'll be heavy on their d. and they'll just grind on you along the walls along the different boards and you know and when they had the opportunity strike or bring to the net they did so and they were just hard to play I think when. I think what's hard to play against and heavy hockey. I mean this this team you know for that you know really five six year span. I mean that's i think that's the example on kind of gold standard of the quote unquote heavy hockey. It was. I do think it kind of lead people astray a little bit in terms of trying to copy it and sort of replicated where it's easy to lose sight of the fact that while dr jeff carter certainly have big bodies. They'll sore incredibly gifted offensive players as well who can capitalize on those opportunities when they do get control the possession and so You know it's great to be able to play that good brand hockey but if you don't have the requisite skill to back it up and you're you're ultimately kind of one dimensional sort of not accomplishing what you're striving to do. Yeah definitely a guy. Like while i kings gray and i got to meet him during my time just within the organization in the american league but i mean he's a good example of a guy you know he fit you know he fit in that system and i mean and i never played in the nhl but like in terms of fitness key fit in that system. Where you know gets bounced around elsewhere and like doesn't really have a place the nhl right zoe. There's definitely you know there's a handful of guys that just fit perfect there and the ideals and a culture that they're looking for but not necessarily working with other teams so i i mean i definitely agree where you know. You see different gossip that have success and then you know it's not necessarily their other way because it's not conducive to their game. It's not as simple not as machine. Mike as as the kings were back and watching these games. I've done about ten or so. These reliable is now in for the most part. I think my success rate of picking quality games has been pretty good. I think with this one. It's clearly a classic in the sense of of all the drama. And all the storylines heading into whenever you you're picking a game and going back and re watching something from five six. Maybe even ten years ago this especially the nhl product has changed so much that. You're not sure how it's going to hold up over time and whether it's gonna look like an entirely different game than what we're used to these days and i think this one certainly help for the most part maybe just like from a quality perspective. It wasn't as good as i thought it was going to be. Just because of if like most of the goals were as you alluded to kind of like not random balances. Because that's what ocoee is all about. But there'd be just like balance all someone in his. Jonathan days will be wide. Open there for to happen. And you'd had that a couple times and it wasn't necessarily the super high end skill plays that you typically expect when you get to this stage in the postseason warrior in the west final. A game seven especially a game. Go to overtime. That kind of like attrition starts to to come into play. And i think we saw that in this one so the drama was certainly there in the stakes. Were there but there was a lot of throwing the puck around and hoping that it landed in the right spot for you to tap it in or kind of just especially if there was one one goal where patrick sharp coming off the rush and it just. It's a random ed spot in the ice and bounces jonathan quick pad. And you know certainly shooters shoot. Patrick sharp shoots a lot and when you do you're going to get the benefit of the dow like that but it's not one that i think when he's retelling. That story has grandkids. He's probably telling a different story than how it actually went in. Yeah it's funny like the game is definitely watching it This last week. It's definitely different than i remembered it. I what just watching you just kinda get lost in. Just how big the swings were the you know with l. a. constantly fighting back from behind and then just You know pull even and then you know that kind of goes to saying before about just you know physical and mental wear that they have on opposing teams. I also was taken back to Just you know as much as i love that brand of hockey and was that was essentially my game. Like how like you know it. It's funny like the few games that year. And i was just thinking like you know you can't even you can't play like that twenty twenty you know like and it's crazy. How much two games evolve. Since then and i. I mean i feel like i've experienced that my career like i've played that way in the game certainly certainly changed and i think if anything like you said like you know you see people trying to copycat that and you can't in. It's definitely losing proposition. I think what you do see it for sure. Is that no matter how skilled the game is. Or how fast the game is you need that obviously. La's maybe in. This instance was a more extreme example of that having like those heavy components. And obviously you already touched on a guy like cho petar Sprinkling ghabra actually forgot. Who was on a team that year. And and carter but you know. I think what we've seen in past coupla since then every day you you you do need that line that you know two three guys whether it's like tampa bay this year going out to a coleman goudreau that pocket you need some physical presence in some capacity to wear down the opponent both physically and mentally so. I think if anything that i learned is that maybe how kings did it can't be replicated but the need for that type of presence and that type of relentlessness is something that's need it for team day achieve the ultimate goal. Yeah i think it's part. I mean it's definitely by design like a. Wanted to play that way. I think they felt like they had to their their brand regardless of the opponent. But especially against this blackhawks team. They couldn't afford to to play into their hands and so it was interesting. Seeing that pushing were a couple of times you finally saw them just going back and forth and trading chances and you could tell they were kinda like out of their comfort zone and wanted to real back in and so kudos to them for accomplishing that but I'm going to set the scene here a little bit for our listeners. Just to kind of jog our memories in terms of what was going on here because the reason why we picked this game in this series. And why i think it is a classic is these two teams. Were sort of jockeying for western conference or maybe even nhl supremacy for those early twenty tens where they were kind of trading championships. They accounted for five of the six stanley cups. Twenty ten to two thousand fifteen. This was a rematch from the year. Prior where the blackhawks. One in five games in the west final ruth stanley cup but that was a much more closely contested series. Where chicago one in in double. Ot in game five to to finish that series really closely competitive and then so you have chicago now. Defending their championship. The stylistic differences we mentioned a game seven ot which is obviously always a crowd pleaser. And i think when. I was trying to teleport myself back in time to the kind of head space. We are in thinking about this series in sort of the the magnitude of it. It really reminded that felt like this was basically the stanley cup. You didn't want to discredit what. The rangers were accomplishing out east. But they were this team where they were just riding henrik lundqvist. They didn't have a single player was sixty point. Stats and i believe mats zuccarello lead them offensively with fifty nine points for the entire year and it felt like they were going to be overmach regardless of the opponent so you had just kind of going back into the fourth trading haymakers and it felt like a. You never want to overlook bone. And i'm sure. Have you talked to anyone in. Need those two rooms. They would have said we're purely doing. This is the final. We'll deal with rangers when we get there. But i'm sure it was kind of like minds that there's something bigger play here if we get i this opponent it'll probably be the test for us so the west final in theory kind of was for all the marbles and that's what made this series in this game feels like so much more dramatic than you would otherwise believe it to be a perfectly because it took me to rwasa game day even on my cou who do they even play. Finally doc said. The new york's waiting for whoever wins s. But if i near that i would have guessed a million different teams forty seven new york but yeah like the the stage was definitely as you said like you know. The power was in the west. Western conference was a lot straw. Unger these can do whatever then. You have the teams that you might. You really believe in an audience but you knew the path of astana compost going through. It really was a gauntlet. So yeah i. It really did feel like it was a stanley cup atmosphere. The momentum The pressure and i thought that i just felt like watching the players. Just the plays being made that you know. They knew that it was for for everything and like i said even watching it. I had to keep reminding myself that this wasn't a stanley cup. Final game with this is this is just to get there and that speaks to the dom into the organizations i mean you can you know those are probably the two best organizations of will maybe not the decade but definitely the first definitely the first part on dumb and it shows in an show just like also showed us how transition game was right because with different lockouts you see the style of play changing but you had to very conflict styles and both had shown success in the league were. I don't think that would necessarily be the case in twenty twenty. Absolutely all right. Well let's get into categories kinda lined up here in re watching this. What sort of stuck out to you as really aging the best and you can take that any direction you want just in terms of like now that we've had the benefit of six years or whatever now of hindsight what was kind of ahead of its time or what wound up being proven to be correct. Or what really stuck out to you as a leading the best here That's a tough question. I think when. I first saw the question. We're kind of going back and forth on just taking notes. Like patrick kane was his skill level and how he played was so ahead of the game and like i feel like the game has finally kind of caught up to his way of thinking and way of playing out there i mean he he really like he looks no different really today than he did back. Then suffer the way the game was played as different and you know how people played against them obviously are different but i mean watching him play like age extremely well and a he's us i feel like he kind of naked out of his time in terms of style of play. I think a lot of style place today probably has a lot to do with the younger players who were on a transcending the league Watching guy like can play. Yeah and it's funny. Because in sort of contrast to that i guess they kinda technically the worst by definition. But what age. The best for me was watching players. Were still around a look physically different in two thousand twenty aging stakes control whether it's dunkin key three even a drew doughty who's not necessarily that old. But because of the miles and sort of grueling nature of games like this is probably his his actual body sort of probably older than his age indicate the only look physically different east. Watch them in two thousand twenty in. Nhl games and they're still effective in different ways but like in this game. There's still sort of at the peak of their powers of flying around and jumping up on the rush and finding themselves in scoring positions in throwing big hits. And they're just playing a different brand of hockey than you'd you'd see from today so it was kind of a neat trip down memory lane to watch. Yeah guys like Doughty now i kind of jumped to me like you know not not wearing a letter. A guy like saw not having a letter like guys who are like leaders now proven and commodities like. They're you know. Daddy's gone for a second copy in in this game But you know you're completely right in terms of style of play. I mean games out a little bit more controlled now I mean sure that probably has to do with just the The type of competitive games that he's in now but just learning the game and learning just to preserve himself longer. But yeah. I think the the the names that you brought up definitely makes sense. Even a guy like the also stood out. Because i mean that's kind of unease in his team candidates and then you think now just kind of you know him getting in and out the lineup. A little bit. It's it's crazy. What difference really only six year has. No it is. And i think even in this game you can kind of see that us never never certainly the most fleet of foot player right like you would use kind of smarts and physicality and guile and had a big shot and they were utilizing it from the point on the power. Play in this game. But you could tell. I think there was one goal against. It was certainly an unlucky balance but he was like a step slow to react. And get there and i think at this point. He's twenty eight or twenty nine years old right on that edge and it was kind of a. I guess a warning sign of what was going to come down the road and and it's interesting i guess part of it has to do with sort of you know the loyalty in the good times and you want to reward the player for all the success. They've added organization but watching this game. It was kind of tough to believe that a year later you'd sign That player to the type of contract. The blackhawks eventually did yeah. It's funny even talking to someone like a lot of guys got reward or just now for that twenty pre twenty fifteen success and rightfully so. I mean the success that they had but you know from gm perspective. It's you know. I guess it's a really tough choice loyalty. Verse projecting futures a tough job. But i agree with what you're saying in terms of. It's hard to believe that amount of money was owed for someone who i guess is in the prime and deal science. Says he's going to be out of his prime. So i don't know maybe that's something we're analytics will gone helps with that type of stuff there because yeah it's it's it's definitely a difference. Okay i'll give you another what age the best here. The watching petar in tasty willingness in this game was really fascinating to me. I just. I don't know how you feel about it but i love that idea. We don't see as much of it in hockey because it is such a team game and you're kinda you know. A lot of the game is spent on the fly. You're jumping over the boards and it's really tough to sort of game plan like mono mono this guy's going to go up against this guy for the entirety of the game like you'd see an nba for example or they're guarding each other and you can really sort of test. Who's better but at this time there was a lot of conversation you know tasers in the conversation burs crosby. An coppola was kind of climbing into it as like. Who is that the clutch big center. That would want to build a team around. If you're trying to win a stanley cup. And they were just really getting after it in this series where they were playing exclusively almost against each other. I dug it up for your. I'm gonna drop some stats on you here. So in the seven games they played sixty six minutes total at five on five against each other during that time the shots were thirty to thirty two so completely even goals or only tuna walker. La and the high danger attempts were sixteen to fifteen for farrah and so basically played each other to withdraw. And i think that's why you saw kane inside kind of have freedom to create more offensively in similarily carter's line got a slightly easier badge up and they could create more had more freedom themselves. But you really saw i cope aren and just to go. I have at this point at the peak of their power is going head to head. And ultimately cancelling each other out. And i'm not sure if both teams should have gone that route. Maybe they should have tried to free up one or the other to not have the play against the and maybe have some easier minutes that they could produce more offensively but it was cool watching them play against each other. Definitely i mean. I think you want to see your best on best especially your one verse one. Because that's i mean that shows the true strengthener team if your top players can cancel alger secondary and you know. -ciary wave of scoring and depth. I actually thought you tavis probably had the the slight edge in game seven just in terms of just what he brought. That's funny watching that game too. I thought wildly tapes would make perfect los angeles king like yet one two to three shifts where he was just you know using his body. Were below the dots. Mendoza own unknown. Could get the puck off Willie mitchell and on a green lady on. And he's just kind of having way and it was. I was just thinking. Wow i like you had been an unreal king player during this time and would have fit right in. But i mean you can make an argument in. Everyone has that he's the he can play anywhere But i think obviously with the kings who've been great but yeah i. That bottle was phenomenal. I think that's what you wanna see. Think that's you know that's what you're gm. See your fans wanna see best on best. It's when i was prepping for the show and doing the research. I saw at the time. I was writing for sporting use and i wrote this article. I remember it was. It was controversial at the time. Got a lot of pushback because people just viewed tapes to be an entirely different tier just sort of the mainstream opinion. But i was a big believer that if co petar either played for market or was from a different country we think about them all differently and actually had this line in his big article. I wrote about it right wrote. We'd be kidding ourselves if we didn't acknowledge that onto qatar would be viewed differently. If were a named andrew. King from minnesota ontario mississauga ontario. Sorry and it's when we think back. I was comparing them and stacking them up and obviously tastes has the advantage of the extra stanley cup and one cons might to his name but otherwise like statistically they're they're very similar players and you could even argue that at the click of his powers. Petar had a slight advantage in terms of what he was able to accomplish with the pieces. He was given certainly didn't have the caliber of line. Athletes for me like oh tires my like favorite player in the nhl. Like i think his combination of strength and skill and vision and you spoke to it in terms of pieces that within the numbers that he's able to put up from organization that as ever will just say they struggled offensively for him to drive play as much. Easy does is is demanding. So i mean. I'm sure there is some sort of bias in terms of that. He made you know you always hear good good canadian boys or something like that. But copay star. I mean you know. I've had him as a top five player in the nhl overall what he brains for. I'm since then probably since twenty twelve. There's not a more consistent player. That i think you can rely on if you have seen him with different teams who might play a little. More open is numbers would be even better than the rb so putting up those numbers with a team that values you know puck possession and defense You before you know production. And that's why they had so much success and that's why obviously he became cotton because he bought into those not only was able to be responsible trusted but he also more to care business on the offensive side. Yeah it's funny you bring up. Sort of they. What they prioritize or what they valued because certainly add this kings team especially in twenty twelve where they took the league by storm after acquiring. Jeff carter but they were kind of the oj. I guess the red wings teams there like two thousand seven eight where like the the. Og puck possession teams when you think of the all time greats at five one five but this team was right up there in any measure you wanna look at at five on five terms of dictating play. Controlling shot share chances exposed and funny enough. This chicago team certainly was up there too. I think there were two of the top three or four or five on five teams that season. And i guess that age the best in terms of both the two of them showing that you could accomplish it in wildly different ways and also the value of just being dominant at five one five and having the puck on your stick at all times in the success. These two organizations had a kind of prioritizing that in their game deal expression this moral some way to skin academy. I think both teams and probably give the edge to la for this. I mean they really. I mean they built very well through the draft and then they added the handle at the same thing with the blackhawks. But i think they did a good job of just making the most that know. They had a vision. The king's vision to play the puck possession and then the blackhawks had skipped l. with they had their bigger guys or stronger dies but i think is good that both coaches and organizations on the same page of that because i think a lot of teams you might draft certain type of player. But maybe the coach doesn't do it the way that's conducive. They really stuck to a plan. And i think that's why both organizations had success because you could see the cohesion. It showed up on the ice between you know the scouts and gm and the coaches and the players. What's expected and i think that's why we work. Well together known. No one looked out a place out there in terms of how they should play or how they were expected to play. And i think just playing in the american league system for kings is no different there. I mean it was so easy to play because you knew what was expected. You know exactly where it should be. And if a puck goes to where you should be. It's new at the person's fault past puck the person at your fault for not being where he should be and not having that predictable field. So i think I think both organizations did that to. I think the organizations are successful. Do that. I mean dallas who and tampa bay a made it. You know to the cup this year again through the draft and it worked. It's all the way up from american league. The success that they've had their that starts with the vision from the scouts in the front office. And then it takes a head coach and everyone a by execute. But i mean i think you see a lot of that you know. The kings had their success in their american league team. Add success and all those guys filter and you saw that in this year's cop as well i think it all matters. I think it all brings things together. I'll give you one final. What age the best in the one move on from this. Category no controversies. Sometimes you think of these big games new taint. It's tainted by a horrible call. Were view especially in two thousand twenty where we're having so many conversations about you know challenging offsides and goaltender interference and not knowing what's what they're they reviewed one one time with the jeff carter high stake and it was quickly ruled a good goal and i think they got the right call but there were no like there was some penalties and certainly getting brennan saw saad had wind where it was kind of a questionable makeup car where there was a week slash that they probably go buy for. The most part in this game was control. The outcome was determined by the better team ultimately winning and persevering. And there wasn't sort of that. Caveat of oh. This one call had gone differently. Would result have been different because we didn't really have any of that. So i appreciated that that this game wasn't sort of marred by some sort of questionable call that was just just lingering in the air did. That's a good one end on. They played hockey. They left it out on the ice. And the i like that is as strength on strengthened yoga jerusalem without it's awesome twenty twenty has really forced us all to reshape the way work and try to become more efficient process whether it is having zoom meetings on a daily basis or working remotely from home. If you're running the pto cast watching watching old games as opposed to you because there's nothing currently talk about. We've all had to make adjustments to become more efficient. Fortunately for businesses out there that are looking to make the most of their hires. 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You might not be going to a game this year as we wait for the world to sort itself out and for this pandemic to end to be safe to go back to live sporting events but in the meantime you can still be in on the action at bet online but online's going the extra mile to make sure you can get in on every possible chance to win this season games. Prison totals team player and coaching problems. But i gives you more options to wager than anywhere else obviously. There's no hockey basketball on right now anymore. With their seasons over but football still on and down the road when we know when the nhl seasonally to beginning back you're going to be able to go out there and star wagering on futures like championship. Who do you think's a win next season. Stanley cup wagering wins Player props. There's gonna be a lot of good stuff there so I recommend going there now in familiarizing yourself with it and trying it out and take him for a spin and then getting ready in advance of the next season so just hit the bed online today and take advantage of all the great sign on bonuses. They've got their. Don't forget to use the promo code blue wire at online. Ag to let them know that we send you. That's blue all one word that online. You're online sportsbook. Experts all right. What is the worst. It's a tough question to hire. Yeah le- lead with that. I had a couple of things but only what you have so at this time. Chicago's running this power play one set with canaan as obviously and then they've got andrew shaw as kind of the net front president. It's kind of mixing it up and trying to get it and in jonathan quick space and the running to defenseman at the point and they're like catering a lot of their looks towards teeing up either seabrook or key one timers and at one point they have an extended five on three for about forty to fifty seconds or so and they don't even get a shot off during that time and for all the skill. This team had an all of the sort of offensive pieces that they had. It was strange to me. And certainly it as the worst because in two thousand twenty. Whenever i'm watching a game. And i see a team run to defenseman on their power play. One always kind of raise my elven. Because it's so outdated at this point and i Pretty much every team is exclusively running. Four forwards and this team certainly wasn't devoid of for deserving forwards. Right out there and sure enough. You see later on patrick. Sharp scores set up by brandon. Saad on their power play to unit and it was just. That was a bit of an eyebrow. Raise to me where i feel like. They didn't maximize their opportunities in that regard. Because i guess maybe in two thousand fourteen. I'd have to go back and look at it but that was just the way they were operating. They're prioritizing those looks in over the past six years we've learned that it's probably not the most efficient way to run your powerful a point. I remember seeing that. I didn't. I don't think i thought of it as you know. Block white as there's two events out there but yet that was definitely weird f- to see not that i mean on some of the We kind of we kind of already talked about it. But just some of the I guess the players that you that would make a guy like seabrook and you know he back the ad you know enduring these games compared to two now like i like how you kind of talked about like you can kind of see you can kind of see where like the holes were where they were going to be Yeah that's something that. I guess i just kinda kept circling back to and i'm not sure if it's because of just the dialogue that came out of there this year and So obviously more sensitive to it. But i think he was deficit on that i got my on and even even like Like saad Watching him play with cain it just seemed like hardly as best hockey in dighton on him. i think that's probably more of a praise patrick. And now he's able to elevate his level like you had a lot of lot ice out there with saad and Shaw and just way elevated elevated. Those guys i mean it really look like a guy like had a completely different gear yet. Oh what age the words for me. Every single time chicago has traded brandon. Saad and we'll we'll run through those three Transactions at a second here but at this time he's twenty one years old and for by money he was the best player on the ice in this game. Certainly like. I can't believe i can't believe i understand. I understand there's cap and all that stuff It's funny because just watching like the world series. They kept saying who trades. Mookie batson hawksley sods not at that level right. You know you find a way to keep a guy like that you just he just did i use so good so does seem common goal. Come and go you know. That definitely is in two before. Like i would like to find a way to keep that. Yeah if obviously it helps with canes demanding so much extra attention it's creating extra space for on the ice so that helps but if he was creating something anytime he goes out there in this game had the bowl Five shot attempts shots were eleven was energy or actual play like he was a very all around really good player. I mean it felt like honestly. The puck bounced on him a couple of times. I feel like under better ice conditions. You might have a couple more times. But so yeah. He's playing on his entry level. Deal at this point. Twenty one years old. As i mentioned a year later they wind up moving. But so these are the three times. Chicago's traded brandon saad. So in the summer of two thousand fifteen. They traded him for artem anisimov. 'cause they didn't wanna pay him on his next deal and then two years later in the summer of twenty seventeen they trade are tammy perrin for him because pinera has a year left on his deal and they're kind of regret avoiding having to deal with him as a free agent the following year and then this summer they trade him nikitas zohrab. And i bet you he's going to look mighty good on a on colorado playing top six and i guess listen like you watch this game. If you told me the brandon saad just purely from watching this game. If you didn't know otherwise told me he was going to be one of the five best players in the league and be a complete superstars. I believe you without knowing anything else. Based on how good he looked. So i guess it's disappointing that his career and has has turned out to be the sort of game changing impact player that he was in this one but Still still a heck of a hickory are obviously scored thirty goals in columbus. Want a couple cops still has some good years ahead of them but yeah it was. It was kind of jarring to see. Just how impactful. He wasn't this one. Yeah for sure it just got up and it has nothing to do with the game but just when you go big picture you're looking at it from twenty twenty. It's like now is he's. He's been given away twice now. Cluny a couple of ways. I can go this one. I guess a quick one the amount of dumping and jc. I don't mean to insult you after all we've talked about with how you you like the king style and the way they played and certainly i admit they was bhai design and they had to play this way against ago and this is what made unsuccessful but just watching. It was like every time they had entered the zone. You'd be like okay. Here comes the dumping to the to the point. Where older game that watch. This wasn't new. It was interesting to watch. Because there's one point. I would like about a minute left in the game. In regulation dustin brown's coming in off the right wing and you can almost each cargoes defense like relax a little bit. Because they feel like they can sack back because he's gonna dump it in and instead he just keeps the puck and goes in and almost wins the game there because they sort of gave him that extra room and i honestly just watching it. It certainly looks like they were just fully expecting the dump and based on their mo. Any sort of pulo switcheroo in and took advantage of it. But that's that's the sort of extreme and the extent to how often they were dumping in chicago was fully expecting together there. Sometimes it just didn't make sense like why would you dumped it. They're like it's like going back to like a it makes sense of what they did. Never bought in like you know. Maybe you know your chances of scoring out the russia. If you're you know that epa player dwight king or something like that. Probably very low i mean. Can you make that slot line pass. Are you gonna pick a carter. The chances are against you but you know so you give up that opportunity. Put it in the corner. duncan keith. On the ice. So now you're getting a body check on him. You're wearing him down. The game goes. Ot all those little things those little incremental things make a difference and that's something. I love like analytics data at something that you can't really take an account for that feeling of knowing that you know you're you're gonna get hit or you cheating the sag and having a out loose gap because you just want to get the puck orcas can so you can get the puck off his stick as quickly as you can whole adds up and you can see it on the ice. Obviously none of us were in the game. But i'm sure those guys. Those third line is are pretty much. Everyone was willing to the body but they they probably could see it in there is at. It was frustrating. That it's a lot. So i mean it was definitely i would. I don't know so many dumps 'cause you would just it's just uncomfortable. I would say to see twenty twenty but but then when you just put yourself in the context of what the kings were doing than just the war attrition. that's gone on their events that makes more sense. Yeah and there was one time where waking literally entered the offensive zone unimpeded and it was just inside the blue line and just dumped it in anyways does just like what is this. Be like soft chipped it to himself. Obviously he was gonna get. Yes yes like. He's just hoping to get contact. I know he's like this gonna go through my body in that corner there and got to kill forty seconds off the clock here and see if we can want dry. Look guy an e eight minutes. I mean he played. He's playing top nine now. He's not top go is but he knows how to hold onto pocketing an e possession. Time in i think he's probably a top six player in that respect on the kings for his career. There was a wisconsin watchable moment. Here was there beyond just obviously saying like okay. You should if only watchos apart of this game watched the five minutes of ot or whatever because it actually was entertaining but was there any other points in the game. Sort of inflection. Points where you are particularly kind of ribbit or or Finding yourself really being sucked into it if someone was alison. I'm not going to sit down. Because i'm not a huge nerd in watch two and a half hours worth of this game. Are there certain regions kind of telling them to go into I actually kinda liked the first ten minutes in the reason. Why is because it would probably set you up to continue watching right. Yeah i thought the kings were playing. The i thought the blackhawks were loose in the kings. Were out planning on the i ten minutes but they were. They were down two goals in the way that the way that the goals went in. Were a bit deflating. Right if i think what of almost like that weird balance off patrick. Kane's pants to someone back door. You had mentioned the the sharp goal. But you know. I i like when i re watched us i. I kind of forgot that the kings came back on this. Not because it's just like you know you're doing what you're supposed to do you're on the road. Chicago fans are losing their mind. You're down to nothing you know. You have to look at the details where he is quick. Shakey's even there. Obviously there are some bad bounces but you don't know what that does to team so it's like i looked at that i kings are gonna come back when this in overtime were the it could have been done playing against you know dicicco blackhawks who've already went to cops games have been at home and they're already up to nothing at the. I found. That intriguing is probably because i knew the outcome right but really watching it. I was just like power How they how the kings get out of this because their goal scores so to nothing's not the deficit that you really want That's that's kind of that. Was i really enjoyed that. Yeah yeah it was interesting seeing how they got there i think there were three goals in a Basically sixty seconds span of game time there late in the first I would i would say the start of the third is a bit of a slog like there's just nothing happening for seven or eight minutes and considering chicago is up. I think they were happy with that way. Then like i mentioned earlier. I think it's around the twelve minute mark. Where we're told minutes left in the third period you can see that. La sorta goes alright. We can't just keep milking clock here because we're gonna lose. We need to score and so they opened up a bit. And there's like four or five odd man rushes trader back and forth and a couple of big saves a couple of close calls. And that's when the game really starts to open up and then after elliott ties it I was really impressed to see how. 'bout chicago's a win for it You know with about six minutes left or so. It was a tie game at four. And they were creating some some serious pressure there and nearly wanted at the buzzer. I kind of forgot like quick makes us remarkable sort of toe. Save right at the goal line so they certainly. These weren't teams there. Were sort of just taking it for granted and kind of waiting to to get to the locker room and wait for overtime like this easily could have ended in regulation. I love seeing that sort of motivation to not. Just take those last couple of seconds or a couple of minutes for granted. Yeah i mean who knows but you can make an argument that push to kaga. It's like they knew that like this is probably their best opportunity. Obviously everything's best opportunity when it but the kings in game seven. They're not going to give you an inch. You got mr game seven across the way And i that push like it was definitely noticeable. They're going on all cylinders. You had like versteegthe getting that much ice time before. Like he's getting more is time getting in volvo offensively and they i mean they opened it up even more and it. Kind of la was a not taken off guard but was unable to match the speed. It's like you know you know you're going to be in a long play offs. Maybe you're not going. You know complete octopus at top speed. And they're like all right. Let's take the top off of this like let's let's end this now because you know you're gonna give if you don l. a.'s. Going to get a fresh twenty minutes and they're going to do what they do and that's where kind of brought up a couple of times that's where the wear and tear and just mental physical grind. That playing that kings team will do to. You will take effect. Yup yup definitely all right biggest egypt performance. And you're not allowed to say. Patrick a good here. Because he's obviously a superstar can't say go petar. Is there someone who kind of an adept role or someone just watching this not knowing knowing the result but not knowing how they got there that really stuck out to you as like popping off the page of that was a better performance than i remembered. Not sir i mean. I i so jerrod stole. Obviously he missed time right. He started the game. He is out for a bit and I kind of forgot the minutes that he's playing for this team and I think so it kind of reminded me just how like versatile of a player was and obviously like you know he's you know he's the big body in front of goal for the for the game winner but i mean yeah i just i. I just forgot because there's a lot of players that are very similar. I just kind of forgot. All about jared stolen his impact on the team and just the greatest To come back. So i thought you know in in its game seven and obviously meant something to him but you know battling what he's battling combat i can have the impact he did. I thought that was that was great. And then like i said i did forget. Gabric was on the team to But that was just marvel- goal thing than a overall play use such a hockey guy highlighting jared stolz greediness. What's county that's funny. I obviously the obvious answers brandon. Saad right like just just how good list. But yeah. I mean. He was playing on basically. That's the purpose of top line Edrich sharp was interesting to me here. Because the way i remembered it was he was playing with teams in hosa and he had a great year. And you look at the numbers. He scored like nearly forty goals. But at this point in the season. I don't know if it was because he was struggling offensively or because they had that taste match up so i think when bill might have wanted to load up with a more physicality so they could deal with copay tar and brown But the add. Brian beco- playing on the top line. There with days in hosa and patrick sharp was relegated to third line. Duty with markets krueger and ben smith but he was kind of. I don't know if you. I don't know if there's sort of wake up. Call that he needed or or or what have you. But he was us flying out there and creating a lot and he scored two goals just because you know by the by the definition of kind of paycheck performance for for less heralded guy Know third-liner for them in this game essentially came up with two goals. So i think patrick sheriff's before sure is still getting work on the on the party i i was just like you still getting work on the power. Play right utilizing your shot that i that kind of run over quick spat right. That was him right. That wasn't he's right so yeah and he had to slap slapshot on the power play. So i mean i. I think that was more like a surprise for that thick it said like that might have been as fourth and fifth. Goal the playoffs which you would think you would have a lot more. So yeah i mean i guess from his production from so far in the playoffs he produced while but it. It was a good bouncing and then all credit from poplar shock. That's the clutch shot that the team needed at the time But yeah i guess looking back. I was definitely a new bickel played with that top line. I just i forgot that it was at this juncture of his career. 'cause this is kind of you know. I guess you could also say like you know in terms of breakout performances. Like this part of that street that bickel very highly attracted attractive to a lot of other teams in a league where he really just kind of fit in in chicago with those type of players. Well i mean he was buying this top on. I think it was twenty thirteen up when he he scored like nine goals or something and then yeah and then he got paid sixteen million and and unfortunately you like when you what age the words in terms of how can we talk about this seabrook's or those loyalty contracts and how that's where teams kinda get themselves into trouble a little bit like chicago that in the last year of that deal basically add to attach twenty nine to give them the carolina just to allow that to happen because they were so up against the cap. And yeah so when you're when you're giving up guys like terrifying or given up. They have to give up. Philip philip dano at some point as well who has thrived montreal. And that's why if you're teacher go. You're looking back five years later and you're like oh well this is. Maybe why we've failed to the sort of regenerator a second or third round here while we still have cain tapes and keith because we gave up a lot of young talent because we just couldn't afford them deathly three cups to show for it so hard to hard to. It's i don't know how you being a national hockey is tough job. cottie sustained. Yeah well that. That's why i mean like nick. Lead in this game Wildly overqualified for the role. He was playing. I think he played twelve minutes or so on this one and you could tell like a supremely gifted with escaping and his and his offensive skills but he entrust them and you know maybe deservedly so because unfortunately out there for the game game winning goal against the kind of bounced off unfortunately and he can really get good position out front but yeah he was another casualty for them so it is what it is. Yeah you're right when you achieve the ultimate goal of winning the stanley cup except argue but you pay all right most unanswerable questions. Here's one for you. The columbus blue jackets get rings for l. a.'s. Twenty twelve in two thousand fourteen cops after they gift wrap jeff carter and marian gaborik for them Yes and no i mean. I'm sure i mean that's a really good question That fits yet answer apart. I mean obviously It had to change for jeff in columbus wasn't workout during a short time there so as much it was a gift wrapped in columbus has been. I feel like they've always made decisive. Moons in that was one of them and obviously the return wasn't there but they did what they had to do for the club. But i remember seeing that trade like saying wow they can acquired a better player that's gonna fit into their system like overall and i remember looking. I think maybe on came out with the story. Share just looking back at the trader or something like that and you know whether it was gonna work out or not. But i mean he's he. It's been great. So i mean i i guess they should get coverings for that. Yeah i mean this is being desai's is one thing they gave up for a jake and katrina for thirty nine games them and then quickly quickly pull the pull the pull the shoot and got jack johnson interject for a and and you you mentioned the gabric when you forgot He was on this team like he. was very clutch for them. I think he he led them in goalscoring Fourteen gold or something. He wasn't that obvious in this game. I remember the time he really provided them with this kind of antics goals. Yes little bursts. Exactly the only guy is going to be pulling pulling got asked. I mean that's always scored a goal. Just you know the one thing. He can do escape. So i i remember being. I remember being during this. This run Often associated with with gaborik and kind of his style of play and this is pedigree but obviously he was more than there for this. You made a contribution. Here's one final question. Or maybe it is answerable. Because i'm gonna pose it to you and hopefully you can answer but This idea of referee even calls. And i alluded to earlier with the sod slash gun second period. It was after chicago. God a five on three and they didn't capitalize and then you kind of knew just with the flow of the game that next sort of remotely questionable thing. They did the referees. We're going to try to get la back in in their books are kinda even it out and like as a player. How do you sort of Like deal that kind of remind center at all or are you kind of aware of it because it certainly feels like just like an observer watching these games that you can tell like when that titus shifting and win a teams getting a lot of calls and they haven't been capitalizing on them like dogs is do for our plays. Yeah as a player definitely aware of him. Coach will say it to. I mean if you start off and you had three powerplays in. I go in intermission coaches saying like you know the next one's probably coming us like you know we deserve because even if even if there were three definite entities like you know you. You're are on the man advantage for six minutes so they're probably gonna call you tighter because had enough. It's like a natural thing. So i think you're definitely aware of and i don't think enough. I don't think it affects player. Like even if a player complains or says anything thousand makeup call like you know. It's kind of heat of the moment type thing but i it like you said i think it's i think you said it's it's to be expected that they're going to try to keep the game as even as possible thrust into game like this but both teams are competing. Nothing egregious in terms of penalties. Like no no nothing dangerous. So i think they also give some leeway in terms of the calls that can be made or your thoughts. Generally on the on the organ dominated. Commentary corner here the link that i send you the we watch this on. It's available on youtube share with the listener so they can watch themselves. But it's the cbc call with With bob dole on it. How do you feel about the quality of the broadcast in terms of because sometimes they can really feel outdated just because you know the the final product of how you present stuff on. Tv as changed so much over the past. How many years. How do you feel about this in terms of just like them narrating what was happening capturing the drama the moment like eating. They did a good job. I think they did a phenomenal job. and i remember 'cause just from the notes that you sent me just to talk about this i'm not sure if it was Just because it's you know. Covert ed and we just had santa cup with no fans or anything and obviously that adds to it. But i just. I mean i've seen this before and it's fourteen not fourteen years ago but Six years ago. I know the outcome but that this is probably as engaged as i was all summer. Her watching Just from the energy that was in the building and then the way they were telling you thought they did a great job of just you staging staging the whole thing in in the game really did it self. I mean you know. Elena omni lead you know for for most of the game and The back and forth two thousand play at thought that they hit on that really well highlighting those big players that you wanna see You know it's something all talk matt loud. It's definitely something that i think Just dealing with this last playoffs last year Just have the fans in the building. 'cause i just i. Ibm i remember watching it. This one adding a little goosebumps in the moment knowing what's going to happen knowing this like i said six years ago but you can feel the energy without the to really good job of just that he had the crowds. Good you got charles barkley in attendance wearing jerseys. Got a lot of screen on hottest breakthroughs weird. Like the only thing that i thought from a broadcast point that a good job of like you're right just letting the game come to them. It was certainly set up perfectly. Where like the drama was already built in this morning. An between plays i. I like that. I certainly thought they brought something there. But the one thing that's out to me was it was weird. This is where it felt a bit dated. There was like no shot counter. There were no like graphics of like showing chances or shot locations or anything. That's stopped that. I've certainly gotten used to a maybe started to take for granted a little bit. Twenty twenty the kind of adds to the statistical sorta storytelling of getting a feel for like who's dominating or who's playing well. There's like a bare bones. I guess that was sort of the norm for two thousand fourteen where they were just basically showing the action and there was nothing popping up on the screen it was just purely what was happening and again i mean that's a good point but i i don't think there's anything wrong with it because like you know just going back to this year with with no fans in the stands like those graphics and stuff mattered so much right because you need something to fill the time i i just thought the production in general where you have you know. The fans losing their minds and panning. Whether it's charles barkley or another start discussing. they're like. I thought that really just from a viewing perspective. If you're not there like i'd rather kind of get the view of everything and get that atmosphere from how they did it versus just looking at the different stats that they can put that. They often put on now. That you know just because it just because like you said like a shot. Connor like i think you and i both know that doesn't really talk about the game or well. I think i think can can is playing. You can ask certainly add it to the screen without interfering with the product right but yeah like In this particular game. I did miss it but it just kinda stuck out to me as a being different from what i'm used to recently. Who won the game. Let's let's ended on here like just now that you watch you watch the. It's fresh in your mind. The euro whether it's like a lasting legacy or whether it is the most impactful performance what what stuck out there as like the ultimate sort of beneficiary of the of the final result of this one in terms of like a player like a big picture perspective. It could be anything to be. Honest like in terms. Of this gameboy like like who like coming out of it who Who or what sort of one won the game. Who benefited the most from. I think jeff. Carter i liked. I liked his game. Obviously he's able to contribute. I thought he pops in a lot of different places and you know obviously fits well in the system but considering the the backdrop that we had in terms of just columbus and you know how they traded forearm and just obvious was willing to just say like. We made a huge mistake that for him the kind of had a successful he had. They're moving forward. I thought i thought that was probably very just prove people wrong him. Because i mean he's been a world class player so for that to happen to a guys representing his country especially when it's canada's a wild to think that something like that this had happened but he did it. was a key contributor. Why i included him. I thought like the winner was the that seventies line because i thought they were kind of viral sensation at this point right like they sort of took the league by storm. Everyone's talking about iran is creating memes about them. And you know. Carter was sort of the figurehead. They're kind kinda like really tired. The foley's always looked younger than he is but he like especially clean cut in this one where he doesn't alec a single facial hair looks like he's like yours looks young no he looks like someone who won some sort of a draw to get to play with jeff carter and jeff carter's just chauffeur them around and and you know tanner pearson's out there and they dominated throughout this postseason but especially in this game they they created the two goals. Jeff carter really got them back into your mentioning earlier. Fearsome is really good but you mentioned earlier like when they when ellie went down to nothing. You're thinking how are they going to create enough offense to get back into this and l. a. and jakarta just kinda willed one into the net there with like this rush after a block shot and they were awesome. It's interesting you mentioned carter. Because i don't think he was at his physical peak by any means. I think early on in philadelphia when he scored forty six goals in ohio. Nine like that's when as a goal scorer he was at his best but just in terms of like putting it all together and being the complete package. I thought he was unreal. Command of the of the game as you alluded to in this one and you know kudos to him. I remember when he signed that eleven year dealer whatever he signed with with when he went to columbus like i guess he signed it with philly before they traded on. But i i remember thinking like there's absolutely no way that jeff carter's playing by the end of his deal and sure enough. He's only got two years left on it and is still a potting twenty goals. A season and still is a useful contributor in nhl level. So it's you know he certainly proven me wrong. Because i if he told me that ten years ago i would not have believed you All right well. I think that's going to do it. It's going to be a for this one. I think we we cover the games. Certainly recommend watching it to to our listeners. Enjoyed the The experience of going back and reliving these glories deaf plan. Think if you if you wanna see. Just the competitiveness hockey. I think this this is if you just enjoy it. Exudes joy just watching the game and being appreciate just how it's transition. I think this is a really good game to watch. Because you have to on trusting styles But you can still see different players and philosophies that you still see In today's game so from that perspective. I think it's a lot of fun But you can see how dominant kings are though. They were a bit extreme in how they played their lesson style. But just seeing what. A complete cohesive unit. Looks like and. I think that's that's what the kings were doing their runs for the cops. Yeah yeah. I highly recommended as well as it lived up to the high lived up to the lasting memories. I had of it and i would recommend watching it so all right. This is going to be at for the latest ray. Watchable jordan was a blast right. I'm glad we finally after months and months and months of texting back and forth trying to make this effort. We finally did it so hopefully it wasn't. It wasn't too painful and hopefully we'll be able to get you back on down the road. Great thanks for having me after we finished recording I was thinking back to the conversation. That jordan samuel. Thomas and a hat and and i realized that we probably didn't give justin williams enough credit love for his performance in this game and i couldn't and this show without doing so because it was a game seven and he is mr game seven and his performance in this one was exactly as great as you'd expect and i wanted to give them a little bit of love for it before we got here so he had the goal. He helped set up the game winner by alec martinez with a very justin williams ask wasn't flashy moved. But he retrieved the puck after dumping one Battle against the boards. Got it out to the point and the rest was history. So it is a very classic. Justin williams performance started off slowly. Started off this game. On the depth chart worked his way out wound up playing some really important minutes down the stretch and put his imprint on the game and lived up to the nicknames. Through game seven. He ended his career with needed. One record and game sevens An nhl record seven goals in those games fifteen points. He got the conn. Smythe at the end of this postseason. Three stanley cup rings a true legend one of the early analytics goats and Yeah i just wanted to give them a little bit of so before we get out of here Hopefully you enjoyed today's episode the rituals if there is any future games you'd like for us to cover We're still going to have some time here before we have actual new live games to discuss. Oh plenty of opportunity to get creative and have fun and relive some old classics. Oh certainly feel free. To let me know is any games you'd like for us to do in the future We've already done a bunch of them so if you for whatever reason in the spring and summer go. Back into the archives check that out and Yeah like i always end every show reminder that it really helps us a lot if you take the time to go and leave us reading review honestly just the five star Click helps and that's really the most simple thing you possibly do. But you've got some diamond. You've got some energy. Willingness certainly be bus an actual review even discuss. You know whatever whatever comes to mind what you like about the show. Why you'd recommend people. Isn't it really enjoy reading all those end seeing What you have to say so. Thank you for that for those. That have already done so. Hopefully those of you. That happened to them and holding out will do so moving forward and we will be back with a really fun show i'm not. I'm not even gonna tease it. I'm just gonna. I'm gonna let you know that it's it's a really good only gardy. Got a record running early next week. So really looking forward to that The hockey ppo cast dmitri filipov. Follow on twitter at dip philipovich. Add on soundcloud at soundcloud dot com slash. Dpd kath

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