'Valentine's Views' podcast: What we have, and haven't, learned this offseason


podcast listeners. We Are Amazing Avenue, the espy nation New York mets site. I'm Chris McShane and every week Brian Salvator, and I discussed the current state of the mets Automated Avenue audio the show we try to look at the mets from a somewhat logical point of view, and not get too deep into panic city. We also answer your emails. Give weekly music recommendations and try not to get too frustrated with the team. You can find the show on Apple podcasts on stitcher on spotify wherever you get your podcasts and let's go mets. Pillow giants, fans and welcome to a new edition of Valentine's US podcast here on Biglou view radio part of your SP nation family of podcast I'm your host Ed Valentine of Big Blue? View and we're coming to you on Tuesday. June sixteenth, the giants for all intents and purposes ended their virtual season program last Friday. The NFL, said that those things can run. For a couple more weeks, I believe through June twenty-sixth and I know that giants rookies will still be. Be Meeting with the coaching staff up until that point, but for all intents and purposes, the virtual off season program is over, and which means it's time for us to discuss what we've learned what we haven't learned about the giants you know before we get to to training camp in here to help me discuss. Some of that is good friend. Patricia trainer who talked to in a while Patty. How you doing how you been. I'm doing well. Ed, but I was starting to think he didn't love me anymore. Oh Patty. Do we have to go through this again? Sure you don't got no. I have to break your warns add. Of course patio? Of course, it's just you. Know Football Perry there hasn't been anything to talk about so I. Know I know it's been hard to come up with things to write about, but you know. Look the good thing about what we do is. We are paid to be creative and I don't know about you, but I'm trying my best to come up with stuff that you know. People want to read and and take part in and whatnot, and it's been a challenge though I can use some football. That's for sure we all could patty. We all could so what I wanted to do today. Sort of talk about the off season that the giants have had such as it is virtual program. We've had very little access to To, giants, coaches and players. We've talked to Joe Judge a couple of times. I think we talked to Dave, gettleman we. We had video conferences with a couple of players. And you and I noticed over the past few days we took sort of different approaches to to wrapping up the offseason. You did a sort of things that we learned about the giants throughout the the virtual off season, the draft all of that. I took sort of the opposite approach. The things that we didn't learn any because of the fact that we never really that we never got to see them on the field, so let's actually go through some of that. What we'll do is we'll a kind of look at your post that you did on giants country. Talk about some of the things that. That we that we learned enduring the the during the last couple of months and we'll talk about that then we'll take a little break and we'll talk about Some of the things that I wrote as. So, let's take a look at. Let's start with some of the things that we learned. About the giants this off season. And one of the things that you mentioned. Is that they the giants? Definitely sought to really upgrade speed on defense we. We have no idea how that's all going to play out, but it was pretty apparent. When they drafted so many linebackers. And that's one of the reasons. They said they did that so just. Just your thoughts on on what they did with the player acquisitions Patty and what they attempt to do on the defense. Right, so the way I broke it down as three segments in the article. What we know what we think, we know what we don't know, but for the what we know column. She said one of the things. Dave gettleman when he spoke to us after the draft, he said that they sought to add more speed to the back end of the defense, which was a problem this year. If you remember how many times did we watch a running back or a titan get to the second level, and just absolutely blow by a linebacker or safety pursuit. We that far TWAS Open. We saw the same thing with titans going up the seems. Excited Stat regarding You know the tight ends in the damage that they did to the giants defense and I know I got sick of watching it I'm sure you've got sick of it. I'm sure a lot of people got sick of it, and it was a clear indication to me. That! They needed to add speed to that defense. Because if you don't have the guys that can keep up with these fast, running backs and receivers and tight ends, it's not going to help your pass rush and I think. Even though we don't know how it's going to play out and we haven't seen. How quick is for example, campground, linebacker. They selected in the sixth round. Is He like Ryan? Connolly Guy who? Doesn't have very many wasted steps. You know based on what films available. Based on the feedback we got from from gentlemen, and from Joe, judge, which can probably say that they've added some speed, but how they deploy it, and how it actually looks against other speed. That's still to be determined. Almost definitely patty one of the things that we're doing it big blue view that we do every summer is we do our summer school series and one of the things that we've been going through? Recently are different coverage schemes cover one cover to. We've also at this point. Hit cover three and cover four all of which have their own plusses, their own minuses, one of the things that you learn as you study each one of those. Is that offenses have coverage beaters. They have ways to attack each and every one of those particular defenses that that you can employ. As that you have to. You have to have speed. You have to have range. You have to have guys who can cover. Large areas to sort of close those windows, so I, at least like the emphasis, I like the effort to to add speed and athleticism to the defense. Yeah like I said it was something that they'd been lacking for the longest time you know they. They tried to patch work it through free agency and it wasn't working. You know yes, you get a guy who maybe is a little bit more experienced in what he sees and how to react and whatnot, but on the flip side you get a guy like Antoine, but they for example who a very smart player you know. knew his stuff, good leader and everything like that, but it was evident when you watched on the field that he just couldn't keep up anymore, and that's the trade off. You have when you try to patchwork a problem area with free agents in older, the free agent, the more likely you're gonNA. Have trouble trying to hit the Jackpot, so to speak, so the giants finally stopped with the Patchwork stuff, and they devoted resources to positions, and we looked at it. You know not just at Linebacker, but in the defensive secondary where they could have used some speeding more aggressive is on the offensive line. Those were probably the three biggest areas on the giants that that we're lacking at the end of last year, and they've addressed that by throwing young. We sources at that. And one of the other things that you talked about that, we we have all talked about during the course of the off season is all of the attention. The giants paid to the offensive line. This is really version three of Dave settlements. Defensive Line Rebuilt. He walked into giant's door at the end of two thousand and seventeen, saying that that was one thing he knew he absolutely had to do is to rebuild that offensive line. I think that that. Judging from what you wrote you like me with the addition of Andrew Thomas with the addition. Of Matt Burke with the addition of Shane Lemieux with the addition of veteran swing tackle cam flaming. I think that you. Feel like this might be the best offensive line the group that has the best chance to be a good offensive line that get put together. Yeah, you know what I mean. You set needs to me in the press box for I don't know how many years now and how many times have I screamed about. They don't have backup debt at offensive tackle. They you know their backup. Depth in the ulterior is is shaky. I've been screaming about that for years. So what happens is is when somebody gets injured or somebody is not performing up to snuff the coaches. Look at what they have and they say okay. Do we run with and let's take? Nate sold for example who I still say banged up more than they let on last year, so do they say okay? You know what? Nate older at fifty percent is better than anything. We have as a backup at one hundred percent. Will you know what I I would not be surprised if that's what happened last year some now in having added resources to that offensive line, they should have that problem if somebody gets hurt, you know with Cam Brown has to go in for a game or two. Because you know God forbid, soldier or Andrew Thomas is is injured. There shouldn't be that much of a drop. Drop off. You know same thing along the interior of the offensive line, and then you throw in the fact that you know they've got the new coach with more Colombo. Who I think is one of the most underrated hires on that staff, and they're just in such a better place, probably the best place this unit has been in in. I can't tell you how many years I would probably have to go back to two thousand, seven, two, thousand, eight that particular offensive line. Wow I hadn't really thought about going back that far, but you could be right patty. One other thing in your post that I wanted to talk about in in in you mentioned the wide receiver position, and the feeling that they should be okay. There and I would agree as long as they're healthy. As long as sterling shepherd plays a full season as long as golden tate. WHO's getting a little bit older? You're doesn't begin to fall off the back end of the cliff as long as. It's rookie. Year wasn't a mirage. I still wish. In surprised that they didn't take a wide receiver. In the middle rounds of the draft fifth sixth round anyway where there were still some talent available, but It's really for me anyway it. It's about health, would you? Would you agree with that? Y-. I would definitely agree with that and also add A. disclaimer here I was also surprised initially, but having thought about it. Where would that receiver have played if you? Spent the third round, pick or fourth round pick a fifth round pick even on a receiver where exactly what he had played, he probably best would have been the number four receiver, so you've got golden. Tate Sterling Shepherd Daria Slayton. You've got Evan Ingram Cain Smith saquon Barkley all ahead of this. Whoever's going to be number four? That guy probably wouldn't have. Had you know a lot of opportunity this year now some. Some people out there listening and say well. What about in the future? Yes, you're correct, but here's the thing next year's draft class. Early indications are that next year's draft. Class at receiver is going to be just as deep as this year's so maybe the giants and thinking to themselves. Okay, you know what we'll see what happens. We'll hope that sterling shepherd makes it through, and doesn't have any issues will hope that. Room. Is finally healthy because Jason Garrett hopefully. Him. than. Pass coaches will hope that quarry. Coleman is over his ACL and can contribute something so I know there's a lot of gamble in there, but I think that is what went behind their thinking and you know like I said they were going to throw win. saquon Barkley, who I would suspect is going to be part of that receiving game. You're going to see Canaan Smith involved in that regard. You're going to see obviously a tate. Who shouldn't as far as we know he's. He's going to be available for a full season. There's no suspensions or anything like that And Slayton as mentioned in shape so. There are options. Yes, it's a bit of a gamble, but I think that's why the giants may be didn't go crazy. As far as you know drafting guys, and then you know, here's the other thing. The other caveat here because that class was so deep, you had guys fall down the draft Ford and sometimes out of the draft that may be an ordinary years would have been drafted data, three picks, or something like that, so who's to say one of these three guys that they picked up a Benjamin Victor. Dylan and KNAPP, who say one of those guys in in a normal year might not have had a higher grade, or maybe they had like I don't know if a fifth round, grade or sixth grade or something like that. That's how deep classes so you can't really you know. Thumb your nose and say oh. The giants didn't do anything at receiver, and and they screw themselves. Patty and the one thing that I always remind people and I know you do this says well. You can't get everything. In one off season, you make your decisions. You set your priorities. You make the best choices that you can, but you have a limited number of draft choices. You have things you WanNa, get done. You have players that you like you have a limited amount of capital in free agency. and. You can't just snap your fingers and at least on paper. Fix every single problem you. You set your priorities. and you do the best you can. And that's what the giants did here and it just didn't happen to include you know adding wide receiver. Now and if you look at what they did, they address their three biggest areas of concern you know, and it goes back to what I said about coaching whether or not this was done intentionally or a happy accident. You have three. Guys coaching positions in the defensive backs the linebackers, specifically the inside linebackers and the offensive line who at one point or another played the game, so they have a little understanding as opposed to somebody who maybe didn't play the game or was a little further removed from playing the game. That's GonNa make a big difference as well and and and I think you know if you're Dave gettleman at the start of the year you look at a team that you know had talent but really. Needed a little bit boost and you. You make a kind of like a checklist and say okay. Where do I need to upgrade? Boast and I think we could all agree. Offensive line was probably at or near the top of the list. We could probably all agree. That linebacker was probably a close second edge Russia was probably in there as well. Is Secondary was in there, and then you know from there once you have your priority list, you say to yourself, okay? Do we go free agency or do we go draft and the kind of work through those questions, but you're right. You're not gonna get everything every year, and you know the things that end up on the bottom of your list you you could say. Do we have a a a number one receiver? Who Can Who can take top off of a defense like like Slayton can. Well maybe not, but you don't know. Maybe you know Jason Garrett will scheme stuff open maybe Korey Coleman if he gets an opportunity will be able to to recapture the speed, so these are some the gambles that they take in and we've seen that, Dave. Gettleman does take gambles sometimes they workout. Sometimes they don't but That's what you gotTa do you can't play. You have to roll the dice. Right Patty so let's do this. Let's take a quick break right now for a word from our espy nation sponsors. When we come back, we will talk a little bit about the post. I did which includes. A couple of other topics that I WANNA discuss. They've seen us through a huge revolution in how we think about content. It's just changed everything about the world of entertainment. I'm Ronnie Mola and I'm Peter Kafka and we're hosting the new season land the giants, the Netflix's effect. We're exploring all things. NETFLIX's by talking to the people who started the company Netflix's changed how we watch and what washed, so we want to find out where Netflix's epic and how they plan to win the streaming wars. They've outmaneuvered everyone in Hollywood for fifteen years adding. My guess is they'll keep outmanoeuvring everyone. This is land of the giants, the Netflix's effect from recode and the VOX media podcast network. The first episode drops June twenty third listen and subscribe on Apple podcasts spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Right giants fans back here on Valentine's views podcast at Valentine talking with Patricia, Traina about what we've learned, and what? We haven't learned this off season Patty. I want to turn to To Post that I did and just talk about a couple of things. Maybe that are in that are in the post that I did that that you may have touched on. You probably did touch on your own post, but just touch on on a couple of these things that I wrote a little differently than you did. And for me, one of the things one of the things about the off season is we don't get answers to every single one of our questions. Coaches will always tell you that position battles aren't decided on until training camp, and that's not always true. I think we learned that the last couple of years. With John Jalapeno at center, the giants denied up and down the last two springs that Jalapeno had already won the starting center, job and Lo, and behold. He was the starting center, and there was never really a competition, but there are things that we learned by being around the team in the spring by seeing some of the practices at O. T.. By seeing the rookie minicamp in and the. The veteran minicamp, and obviously we haven't had that opportunity this time around, so there's a few things that we didn't learn and and one of the things we didn't get a hint about. We talked earlier about the offensive line. We don't know which side Andrew Thomas is going to play. We know he's playing one side. Nate soldiers playing the other side. Spring practices would have given us a hint. For me. My guess is Thomas Plays. The right in in soldier plays the left, but but I'm not I'm not really all that worried about it. I think that's how it's going to turn out. Just just your thoughts on on what we might see there. You know I. I tend to think the opposite. I think because of the off season workouts being canceled because of Kobe it makes more sense to just put. Andrew Thomas Left and move nate soldier over to the right side. Now you're right. Joe Judge has said has not said what the plan is other than he. The plans to cross train guys at multiple positions. From my perspective, it's okay if Andrew Thomas. Is Your future left tackle? Just move on their. You know move solar over you know. Ultimately solar is not in your long plant, so so let the kid get comfortable at the left side. If soldiers struggles now you've got like I said. You've got Nick Gates. You've got Cam Brown. You've got that part. I if you want you, you've got options on that right side so to me. I think it makes more sense to play Andrew Thomas on the left side and move. Nate solder over to your point, ED, about The coaches and the depth chart you're you're absolutely right usually when we go in and we look the spring workouts that what we see is you know the we kind of get a loose idea with the depth chart looks like even though coaches will say well, there's no depth chart. It's like a plank wall. We know that's not true. Somebody's got to work with the first team. Somebody's got to work with the second team. That's information. We generally start to get and You're right that. That's something we are missing. We can assumptions but It's going to be a little harder. I think to really say okay. This is how it's going to be. And you know another thing that that we missed out on with with lack of spring workouts and all of that. I don't know about you, but I was really looking forward to seeing. What a Joe Judge Practice look like what how Joe Judge Ran a practice how he interacted with players. Looking forward to seeing how this entire coaching staff worked together, it's such an interesting staff with with former head coaches on it with so many guys who are coming out of the college ranks. And it was kind of interested in in in Jason Garrett and seeing how he sort of reacted in handle going back to being an offensive coordinator. How Patrick Graham began to put his defense together. So I feel like we just. We learned a few things about Joe Judge, but I feel like we just at this point. Don't really know anything about this coaching staff. Now I think. I think you're right on the surface, but we know that this coaching staff. Joe Judge said he wanted teachers. He didn't want. Guys were salesman, so if he kind of. Apply what you know a teacher to be talking about a good teacher. You might be able to kind of get an idea of what to expect with the staff. You're right. What what? What you miss out on by not seeing the practices are the little nuances for example. How much time do they spend on fundamentals? Versus how much time are they spending on You know the installs for example How many times during course of practice do they work with special teams? So little nuances like that you know is Joe Judge Floating from unit unit. Is he standing on the side? Is He riding around in a golf cart? These are all things you don't. Know yet, so and they're important because every coach. Does it a little differently you know. Are they gonNA, use music, are they? Knock into use music. ARE THEY GONNA? Use those big speakers that announced that the different changes in the the practice sections at you know little things, so that is still to be determined I'm sure judge I've has a plan for how he wants his coaching staff to interact with these players I'm sure he has a plan himself as to how he's going to interact Mike. Feeling as you're going to see a very hands on group that is going to be actively involved. That is going to be demonstrating that going to maybe not be yeller yellows. Because you still have a relatively young group here and you know being a yeller is not necessarily. A good way to go about teaching a young group, but you're gonNA. Have I wouldn't call them cheerleaders, because that's probably not a not a good word, but you're going to see a lot of encouragement I. Think and I think you're gonNA. See a lot of these coaches really get into the thick of things, demonstrate stuff and make sure that these players are doing everything. They possibly can to be successful out there. And the other thing final thing that I really wanted to mention one of the things that we see a lot in the spring. And admittedly we get fooled a little bit sometimes, but we. We spend a lot of time looking at. At the undrafted guys at the unknown guys trying to figure out which guys have an opportunity once we get to training camp, and you have to Kinda suspect I think at this point that some of these undrafted guys might get the short end of the stick simply because with training camp. However, that's going to operate. There's just you know with with no spring workouts. There's just such a limit on reps. limit on opportunities. I don't know about you, but I've kind of missed. Just being able to get a handle on on you know does giovane Lee have a real chance to make to make this roster which one of those? UNDRAFTED wide receivers. You know that you talked about earlier. Which one stands out? Does a kid like Reisen. John, you know making a transition from tight from division to wide receiver to NFL tight end have a legitimate chance I kind of missed the just being able to see those guys in and and maybe get an idea. Guys. We should be paying attention to in training camp. I'll no question I mean that's actually one of the most fun parts of watching the spring workouts. Is You come away and you say Oh, this is going to be my choice for a sleeper. This is going to be. The player that I'm going to be keeping an eye on, but I also think this is where you've got to be creative. You've got to look at the roster and you've got to say to yourself. Okay? Where are the needs? Where do they potentially have room? So if you were to? You know going back to your point about Giovane leak. who was backup running back? This is a kid who can also play. Be returned specialists, so the giants don't really have a return specialist. If he lights it up, could, he may be bummed. Jonathan Hillman off the roster so you could say to yourself. Okay, you know what based on that need I'm GonNa keep an eye on John Lee because I. think he might have a chance of bumping somebody off the roster making this fifty three man roster at the very least the practice squad, because remember this year starting this year at any rate, the giants and all NFL teams from going to be able to bring two guys up off the practice squad to make it a fifty five roster for Game Day so that's going to. Factor into everything. So you know. Yes, you're right. It's always good to see and form your own opinions, but I think you can also look at the roster and. Say Okay, where are the biggest needs and where my guys have a potential opportunity to really you know, sneak onto the roster. Right Right Patty and I just wanted to clarify i. think it's you can bring up to players. To your fifty five man active roster, but I think on game days. We're still talking about. We're talking about forty eight now as opposed to forty six in the past correct. Yeah, I believe that's correct, but the point being is you can increase your roster offering, so you know if you need a guy. At a position because guys a game, time decision, or whatever you you have that luxury and you know I gotta go back. I've got a look at the actual The wording of it but I I think once you put him back on the practice squad. He's protected. I'm not in. Somebody can't claim him off waivers, but I've got to go back and look at them and I think you're right about that and I liked that I liked being able to to bring a guy up and down without necessarily risking losing him every time. Yeah absolutely I mean, and and it's an opportunity for these players to get some valuable live rep experience which they weren't able to really. Get if they sat and languished on the practice squad I mean the practice squad. Actually I shouldn't say that it's important. Don't get me wrong, but you know. Some of these guys become perpetual practice squad players. Yes they do patty all right I. think that we have We've covered enough enough topics for today patio. Really appreciate your spend some some time with me. Giants fans. As always, please remember to subscribe to Big Blue View on all of your favorite podcast applications. Thank you and we'll talk to you soon. Bye, bye! Hi I'm Brian and I'm one of the hosts of the Amazing Avenue Network of podcasts each week day we bring you. A different podcast covers the New York mets from a different perspective every Monday you could hear me Steve along with Kenan Lucas on from complex queens where we discussed the mets minor league system every Tuesday on fermentable. Join me rubble. They look back on the career of less heralded minute. Hi! Hi I'm Alison and along with Maggie and Linda I host a pot of their own each week. We look at all things, mets and social justice issues in baseball I'm Chris, and you can catch Brian me chatting about the current state of the mets on Amazing Avenue Audio. This show every Thursday and on Fridays we have Amazing Avenue in conversation where I talked with interesting people about the New York mets. So check out the Amazing Avenue family of podcasts you can get on apple podcasts, spotify stitcher or your podcast of choice. And as always, let's go mets.

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