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Pokmon: Detective Pikachu with Dan Hernandez & Benji Samit

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And. Donal what say to? On that show. Listen kid. I know this much if your dad was here, he would hug you so hard your bones would podcast. Okay. Great. There you go. First question, going heart. Did you guys write that line? No. Wow. Here's my goal for this episode. Okay. The line the pops like what? No, no, no, I want. I want to along with everything else. Have this episode be an exploration of the process of writing a movie this big? Okay. Okay. For that as much as we can talk about it without jeopardizing, their maybe some things. You'll give this. But we're happy to do that Ben is cutting out can Bennis pointing he has a bell here. Oh, this is a new thing that he's introducing if I know what it is. We're not gonna we're not gonna bring your cut out. Now, let's let's make it clear. There's a reason why Ben might forget that he hasn't introduced the cutout bell before. Benji, Dan, I'll introduce you properly and second have you noticed you're just meeting producer bent for the first time. This is our first time, but it's been good. So far, he doesn't usually have this hat on detective hat. Classic Sherlock Holmes. Dear soccer. He actually is wearing your stark. I'm going to genuinely does have thought it out looking at me. He doesn't remember who. I am. So here's the thing producer, Ben. Aka I detective PICO. Ben of this more doesn't remember anything. Why did I agree to this second? Even though I'm not involved. I should've realized it would be annoying. But he's on the case. He's going to try to guess what happens in the movie because he hasn't seen it. Yeah. Episode. He might guess what he thinks happens in the move great great cleanly up that bit. Should we disabuse him of the notion or should we should we just like he was this wrong? We see what the movie that. He creates is if it's better, maybe. This is like there are no bad ideas. Bad ideas. That's good because my ideas are always great Heller recently. You told shave my head that was a recent idea by him. He thinks. Shave you'd be pretty lethal. I think you would be pretty lethal that would be like or right? It'd be like have like an agent forty seven five I was gonna say like Vince Vaughn in cellblock ninety nine I was thinking Vic Mackey on the shield. Got a bit of a Mackey, although Mackie's short, right or is chick tall. I think he's kind of stocky show that was sort of part of his appeal was like, you know, you don't think this because he was the commission. He was like little schlub being angry when he was cast. Jessica Alba was taller than him in the fantastic for sure. Right, which is a fundamental issue. Fair enough fair enough. This is a blank check with Griffin. David griffin. David, I'm David it's a podcast about usually about photography's directors who have massive successful. They're on their current giving series appoint checks make whatever Cousy pass project. They want sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they bounce Pika Pika, but you have been on the trail. Of a movie for the last two years. Sure. Pretty much announced increasing excitement. Yes. And went through and found all of your tweets about this move a lot. This has been one of your interest rate movies, ever, Pokemon. You'll Pokemon so serious film critic and book. So we put it on the books that we would do a special episode for this. And then lo and behold a couple of months ago, I make a startling connection. Two guys. I know sure are in fact to the writers on Pokemon detective Pika chew Pok Mon Cohen detective Pika job. Yeah. So who we got in the studio today? Ten Hernandez Benji Sam writers polka mind detective Pika chew. We're gonna find out how the polka sausages made. People eat Pokemon. You know, that's one of those things that is a little bit glossed over right in the in the world here. I prefer to think that everyone is a vegetarian fruit berries. Right. There's various natural products. I'd be like a lot of rice. It would be sort of like a green, heavy rain. The it's records. That's game. Right. There's a huge. Yeah. I never really figured out. The guy was like, I'll cook you the app records, and you and I'm like I can't be bothered, but doesn't gonna find eighty Africa. But when you go deep into like we had to do. I mean, we knew him out. Okay. But we should be able to this gonna into the mythology and give you like the big fucked. Is there a leather? They were like, here's your Pokot X, boys. Get luxury game. Was professor oak in an executive producer? Yes. All right. But do you have those things I don't know if they're like phone calls or meetings where you're like, okay. Next item. Here. What do they eat or the sort of like is it okay to do this? Is it not okay to do this? Like, are you constantly having to sort of run by thing? Right. Yeah. How far the treat is after go. There's definitely like, okay. We're gonna float this idea off of, you know, the people in Japan at the poem on. You know, we had to write some emails explaining what we wanted to do emails waiting to see if we got the permission to do it. And. Yeah, sometimes we would. And sometimes we would not. Sorry. Where are you gonna say? It was it was an interesting to their great credit. They really gave a shit. Who cares? Who cares? What you want? They were. They were like, no we have opinions not only about story elements, but right away that you know, species of Pok Mon would behave. It wasn't just like. Yeah. Whatever you want. It would be like species individual, no squirrel doesn't do that. Wow. What hasn't squirrel? Do. Squirrels strategists. Interesting. Why couldn't have like a squirrel as a plot point being that was just screw strategize. Look, this is come straight from the. Is it like baby poke him on wouldn't like their little some, you know, there were with that. Yeah. It was for the bulbous Oracene. Like, it's like Bubba sores can be in a herd. That's cool. It was more like in the process of kind of like Benji really wanna talk poke him. Let's get into we're going to go. Response. One of the things that is really cool about what we got to do is to make a master list. That was like here are the Pokemon that we pie in the sky way. Right. Would like to wanna use that list? Was there one hundred on that list, right? From that list. It got whittled down to hover many got whittled down to. And so with each of those we would have to kind of explore the the nuance of what we were allowed to weren't allowed to do which evolutions we were allowed to use. And they were very accommodating, generally. But like they had opinions and it wasn't. It was very interesting way of writing because occasionally I made the joke like it's not really joke because it's true. I was writing with one hand and like looking at the polka decks with the other if only there were a bio luminescent mushroom. Oh is like I mean, how many other six hundred or eight hundred and now with the new generation it's going to be. Wow. Have you guys kept up with it in every iterating like what's your relationship with Pok Mon throughout the years? I mean, you like when you got the job writing this to do come back in and go like, okay, I'm four hundred behind. I gotta fill in this gap. I would say there was a little bit of gap field. I would need gap filling. I'm not good on the later games refer share. And we knew you know, some of the the bigger Pok Mon from the labour just like the fan favorites and things like that. But yeah, we did a deep dive on everything, you know, we went through every single Pok Mon all their evolutions their interactions their powers there. You know? Yeah. It was it was pretty intense. Well, I mean, I guess let's zoom out because I mean, the first thing that David said to me when the movie ended when the credit started after just squealing at at the GameBoy. Love the GameBoy graphics. Right. He turned to me went. This is crazy that this is what movies. Movies are insane. Yeah. Movies are insane room. And and he meant in every possible sense. But that's the really weird thing about this movie. Which is a thoroughly weird movie. It isn't a positive, but like so many times watching it, and you guys very generously helped us get into see it early before. Because we knew you're only going to be in for a limited window of time. We went to the premier we met at shoe not bragging redacted bit. Guys. We're US pitchy. Who's had a very to pock esque pose with with the giant peaking? Very all eyes on which I which I'm pretty sure was just an inflatable peak achieved that I'm sure they always had that they had then been like, let's can we get a giant hat and put on. Inflation. No that inflatable Pika true. Had just been backstage a kiss me. Kate. It's been there for like the last twenty productions of theatre it was it was because it was the middle of Times Square was the yellow carpet which was and then the the premier was at the twenty five where like one floor this theater with twenty five screens was just different screen. They had a Goan in several screens. Yeah. It was intense. That was the theater that when I used to live in New York, I would go to just as a as a fast. There was like a weird symmetry having it at that theatre. And also be reminded how ridiculously designed that theater is where it is like a labyrinth in nightmare. Krit escalating, it goes to the secret to scrape known remembers, and they were sort trans separate the two things that people who are trying to go to floors one through five one three four five versus floor to just attack the peak. It's like the exit was weird. This is all really exciting. It was just like having the walk through Times Square twice. It was it was it was it was a weird for weird movie. Right. Yes. So this is the point. This is the point you guys aren't hired to adapt like poke Amman red and blue right right there. There's a clear thing that just like, okay, Pokemon, go. There's this like revival. Everyone's reminded of how popular this thing is it's enough for twenty years now, it's at the generational level. You can make like a four quadrant movie around it. And then announcement is it's detective Pika show. They've like they've won the rights for a live action Pokemon movie and to -tective Pika chew to which almost everyone said what because that was a game that at this point had not been released anywhere other than Japan. We know because we were starting to ride it. They're like, here's the translation of the video games group. And I took three years or two years of Japanese in college. It was it was completely useless. You're in this weird position where it's like, you're a dappling a game that there isn't the same kind of emotional affinity for as the property as a whole, but that game needs to function as an entry way to the possibility of any live action, Pokemon movie that can exist under this thing. And it's a fucking insane concept. Which is what if one? Starting for level St.. You all know, Pokemon. Are you all know who peachy race you? All right. Like you keep going down down down them. And it's like so Pika choose detective, and he can talk. It would be like starting with Dr. Mario. Yes. Breaking breaking three like sort of sacrosanct rules oppo Kvant to start. What you're saying? Like Bumblebee is the first soft reboot of like the Michael bay transformers. This feels like it would be the fourth free boot. Right. And it's like you're starting there and everything is like Pokemon is a is a nuanced concept. It's a messy concept with a lot of tendrils. And this movie starts with the given that you know, all of it which like we're like yet. This is what these movies should be now. Because it's like this thing's been around for twenty years. Why are you going to see a Pokemon movies? You don't know what Pokemon Amman is we're not going to name other live action video game out of -tations. That might have had a recent negatively received trailer. No idea. What movie I could we talk? You're talking about. What if they rebrand him as detective what if they're like, we got it? We got it. It's fine. Here's the detective its own them, you're satisfied. Now. Right. Took the note. You don't like the design. He's constantly holding a magnifying glass design, his better. Now, he's is looking no. But like that that feels like what David I were saying was like how these IP movies, I feel like especially video game or like adaptations a kid cartoons used to be done through like the mid two thousand which was like, well, you know, someone acquires the property and then all the executives go like this dorky shit. This is weird. This is weird. This is weird have them be transplanted to like, Oakland, California. Right. And then, you know, it's just them like trying to save the school or something earlier badging department Bill, right, right? Like that that sort of concept of like, you have to strip as much of the weird stuff away from that you you put him in like, a co-op, you know. And this movie starts with all the weird shit as a given. But also you guys were saying about lake all the rules of of what polka can't do. There's table setting in the first ten minutes of the movie of just like this is the ethical debate around poke Amman. Yeah, sure, which I always feel has been like the weird underbelly. That's like never discussed in the property. And in this movie starts with like, this is a city established on the idea that poke Amman battling human relationships with Pokemon or maybe a little skewed. Right. Yeah. Like rhyme city is supposed to be like. Oh, no. We don't fight. We're all partners here. Right. Anyone can work man or poke him on can't speak somehow. They can hold jobs, but he do like an interview with the poker Mon you're going to hire the like work at a coffee shop. I know I get so at what point do you guys come in on this project? We came in really early after it was when they were still trying to crack the story, and what it was going to be. So we were pretty foundational to all of that. And I think. To go off your point of like why detective he could you? As opposed to anything else in the Pokemon universe. I think you know, from the top down when everyone made the decision to make a live action Pokemon movie for the first time in over twenty years. They wanted a reason for to exist like they wanted. They wanted it to be different they billion of the animated films. That's right. And they didn't want to just tell like the red blue story again just respected him. No. It's a it's a great story. It's been told. Yes, collide. And you know, everyone knows ashen if you know, they wanted like, the the why now of the live action trend, so they thought that detective Pika chew would be a great way to do that, you know, having rhyme city this city where people in Pok Mon are living, in harmony like seemed like a really cool live action thing to see. Right. And so that's sort of why why we did this. Yeah. Right. I also feel. I feel like post like in game people have been like debating, the concept of fan service allot, and I've heard many people I think smartly make the point. That's like is it really fanciers anymore. If it's a thing where everyone's a fan now so part of the monoculture that like the phantom that you're like Hadrian to is like audience member one point two billion dollars worth of box office. And in the same way like someone on our read it said that Pokemon is statistically the most successful media franchise of all time it is more than ours. Combine like the video games everything combined. Everything it is the biggest media franchise and fans, I don't even really know what that means. The point. Yeah. Just slightly agree. You know, when we sat down to write it. And and you're right. Some of the things that you mentioned, you know, outta foundational level when you're sitting down to right? Yeah. What you know is going to be a huge studio moving and you're sitting there going. Okay. This isn't the obvious way into the story diagonal story that you know, it's not like the people are calling for detective fica chew. Right. So I think you have to then go a step back and say, okay. If I were. Just a viewer. What would I want from this story and as a fan of Pokemon? What are the kinds of things I would wanna see and to me to me. One of the best moments in the movie is when they first arrive into the city agree more, and you just it is actually overwhelming how many poke him honor in that. But it's like businessmen going about their day like tapping Griffin Bessette though to just just every single one. There are so many in that sequence. But it's just like, you know, like a barista going to work and a guy doing construction and that to me in some small way we wanted to replicate the feeling of walking into most icy Cantina. Okay. I was gonna say I genuinely thing that is the best film. Just struck the table here. No. I thought that was gonna be my big money. Comparison force you guys did it consciously explaining how this all works. It's just kind of like, yeah. It's sort of chaos. There's a lot going on in the background kinda get the app that the best way to me. I'm always the most intrigued when air like here's the world. Yeah. This this. You know, like, yeah. This guy's going going to work with the chairman or tails on fire. I don't know about the safety regulations. It's fine. It's a given. It's a give you have to as giving. I feel like a lot of times. I will hear people when they're promoting their movie say like, we want us to be the most is Lee sane, and they'll see it don't blink too much paprika. Like, you're putting too much on it. You're like you're calling your shot in advance. And the confidence of the Moseley scene is just like so overwhelming us, and it's so behavioral, and it's it's a given. And it just like, I know their answers for all of this. And they're not telling me any of it in the confidence. Seeps I like in most I feel so that they seem a little pissed off that they walk in there kind of these. I guess you can't bring your droids. You know, there's just a sequence of people turning knows the podcast, but just like turning the list. Whatever it doesn't matter. I don't care. I've got my life to live rate. I've got my weird alien right jazz. Listen to Jisr. Dan, right. But it is just sort of like behavioral stuff there. And you guys last night. Was you seeing the final movie for the first time you've seen it with the effects on finish the thing? David I kept saying to the entire time. Was this thing is so fucking beautiful. Looking screw it looks like Michael man movie. Like, first of all, we're like a neon been recording. Michael man episode. So we've been watching the early ones it's got that same like neon the war thing where it's like a lot of exterior night that's just lip by like the street lamps and the signs too. It's wetter. It's very, you know, in the screenplay if you were to read the screenplay varies a direct reference to my favorite movies, the third man great movie, which is my absolute apex of to me. Just the number one movie. I love that you wrote them. So the. It's when detective Pichu appears from the shadows. And we wanted to capture that moment when Harry lime has an Orson Welles in order around belly. So maybe that's why three eight three great men. Three great guys. Great guys. Orson Welles sort of like slightly husky mode. Not yet at raise. Right. But you know, so it's nor lax he's at peak achier. So sometimes you'll read a review that's like these writers didn't care, right? Sure. Just didn't give a shit about anything put noth ought into whatever. And you're sitting there going like you like the movie, you don't like the move, whatever. Like, the one thing that is definitely not true from I would say ninety nine point nine percent of writers is that we just didn't give a fuck and we were like a page. Whatever task that check. I gotta go to like. Right. You just turned into Thursday. I dunno pitchy has a hat or something is this. Okay. Seems fine. Whatever who cares that. That's the kind of thing where I'm like. No, actually, like when they're on the train, and there's a video. I was like, well, I really liked the scene in total Benji. We're talking about health care, low Rico aware, you know, you sort of introduced to recall, and it's kind of a weird concept, but they very economically got little intravenous. Right. Where you're like is this on the level? But at the same time, it's establishing very Orton sort of pipe, and yeah narrative stuff, and and so all of those decisions like at a foundational level at the kind of go back to the beginning of of what we're talking about. Which is like these are all decisions and reference points that have to be kind of made pretty early on. And then of course executed by the director and everyone got him. But those were all things that we really did put a considerable amount of thought into. I mean, don't you think veggie yet for sure and? Yeah, I mean, the director rob Letterman, and you know, the DP and the like they made it look so good shot on thirty five shot on film. And I think that's a big part of why it feels like the old Michelman movies. And like it just it feels real. Hey, stop lying to yourself. I'm so it's up lying to myself. You know, one time to go to the post office. Really, okay. When you think that you aren't I I don't have time for all that traffic and parking. What can I do? I'm just gonna keep letting them know. Okay. No. No, no. Hey, David, tell the truth. Tell the truth. Okay. Tell detroit. Okay. Okay. This is why you need stamps dot com. 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I have some meal it to them type in check. You get a four week trial plus free postage and initial scale by. And the other thing the couple things that stood out to me. I mean, one is like digital cinematography is a very long way, but certain like shadows. And certain like aspects of light it still has a hard ten capturing in this movie. You have the like fucking third man thing. We're like when they're inside the room is like lit by like, the the light peering through the slats of the window blinds, which might be like, purple or white. There's the scene I think we're we're Justice Smith and Kathryn Newton meet for the first time and their lit by the flashing their. Yeah, right there like in the lobby of building. But their faces keep on changing from red to blue. Yeah. Yeah. It's very blade runner. But then the crazy thing is anytime, there's a Polk Amman in the scene. It looks more tactile, and you're like, right when you're putting digital effects into digital photography a lot of times, it brings out the artificial every and when you're. Putting the filters of like film equality onto the creations. They feel very like in the world. They also felt to me like watching it like this feels like they're using CGI to make them look like slightly more expressive nineties like animatronic like it felt very tattered pile. And they looked like like early nineties like Henson company sort of like like, it remind me a lot of where the wild things are where on that. It was like big physical suits and only the faces were CGI and this presumably was all CGI, but the furs frigging nightmare to make this scene. Yeah. Seattle. Yes. Last night. Who's awesome? Yeah. And I said, you know, because it's the first time we'd met in person with Twitter larusso. What was the most difficult sequence to edit? And he just looked at me like all of every every scene was the most difficult. Onset at all. We shoot. London. We were not onset because we were working a day on TV show at the time. Okay. So we were because you also worked on the Texas. We worked on on critically beloved season two of the to Amazon. What are you doing? What are you doing Amazon come on? What are you doing creek a bunch of Mike bumps where I know critical. Love would be a hundred percent on around tomatoes if they had enough. I don't wanna say who maybe the network we're on did not submit it to enough Critic's review. I did appreciate the reviewers that took the time to go and root me to like they really like fought it out. Yeah. But yes, a thing. I know about you guys is that you certainly care a lot. Yes. And I feel like there are a lot of people in this industry who self identify as like dorks or big fans. I mean, you meet them. They're like, you watch this once when you were like twelve you don't really care, and you guys are like incredibly genuine in your enthusiasm and your like love for these things. Yes, you're. Huge nerd 'cause we were like deeming we were both at all three of us are at wonder kind and Anaheim, and we were like whenever I get time to look, my toys and stuff I had to go pick up my commissions from artists alley right? I was like I looked press, and you guys really trying to get more. Like is there any time? We're all going to be free to be able to like shop together. Everyone else. Like are group's. I'm sure you guys have experienced two when you do these things are just like why would you go to the floor like everyone else doing press with is just like this is not my world. It looks like shit shot and really serve your going. As what am I going to not? Comecon people were like, oh, what parties are you going to? That's every over there. It's going to sign X men. One eighty. You as Commissioner, I do have a grew the wander. Genuinely every time. I hover around because he's always have command. I hover around his booth and I'm to starstruck to actually step into my advice. I extremely I stand there for five minutes. We'd probably ready to be nice my vices to just do it. When you may now because I'm the artist Jerry Robinson who created the joker Comecon, maybe six or seven years ago, and a lot of people actually weren't aware of who he was he just had a little booth that artist's alley and I said to my friends eventually this is like a legend we have to get mission by this guy, and he passed away about a year later, and it was just every time. I look at this Batman that drew for me. I'm like, I am so happy that I have this to commemorate this really important person. And that's so yes, the geek dome is like right earnestly come by. And like, honestly, you know, true. I mean, I sometimes one of my frustrations. About this industry is I do think that sometimes there is a little bit of. I don't know. If disdain is the right word. It's probably the right word for people that are like to passionate about a certain thing. So sure. That to me, obviously, you have to be like a normal person. You can't be. You know, so socially raft that capable of. Being professional, but I've always felt like neuro get people that give us shit. Right. I think there's this weird thing of people who don't give a shit hiring other people who don't give shit because they think it's cooler or not give a shit, and I feel like the first like six years of me like hitting the pavement trying to have a career. I kept on being told your problem is you care too much. Like, I got that for like six years as like an actor in everything just like you get like to invest in the shit. You like want these things too much you care too much about the thing. And and you you see at the very often these jobs go to the people who are just like bring some fucking Pokemon movie. And you're like, why did you hire the guy who hates the fact that he's being paid a million dollars to write the Pok Mon move. And if you were behind the scenes with some of the people that we've encountered sure he would feel even more. So that way you'd be like, yes, sure. You don't even like the property that you're writing like, you view it as like an albatross around your neck that you. I've got a job. Yeah. Got it. Right. Thunder cats. Cats. That's a good example where there is definitely I'm sure doesn't people in Hollywood are like, I know thunder cats backwards and forwards I grew up with it. I have a take on it that can like week in this era. Right. This is what we're talking about within serve fan services. That's dismissive thing. Right. This is too into itself, depending, you know, like who cares about cap doing this in vendors. Ain't right. You know? And it's like new people care people have been there. Or whatever. And I think there's a difference between it's like, you know, what is fan Sirs even anymore. You know, when this stuff is the monoculture, you know, when it's not like you're catering to some sliver. But it's the difference between like these things that are like genuine story payoff that you've set up properly versus like league victory lapping. We're just like let's get like cheap pops off of growing your thing. You now I feel like anything that's properly integrated into a story whether or not satisfies the fans, then it's fucking then that storytelling a works. Right. No. And I will say to to legendary credit like vacation to us because they knew you were nerd, right? And who are the biggest nerves that we know? Who knew they didn't want hire assholes. I'm sure right. And they you know, we had worked with the producers on a movie in the past that that didn't go. Yeah. And you know, a year later they called us do. You guys are the biggest nerds, we know. And so, you know, here's the nervous properties. We have for you. So you guys you have many many TV credits. This is your first produced feature film get. Yes, any and you got you got some pretty credits on this movie because I know credit attrition can be a whole thing. Oh, it can get in story and screenplay by which is kinda like the double Wham. Yeah. It was it was definitely. It was a nerve wracking process. And I don't know if people necessarily know about this process. Hey as much as you want to I hope it's not too inside vase. I guess I guess this is an ever were a place. And I want you guys also to define this people of assets. And we promised to talk about never did the difference between the anchor sand and the written out, and oh, yeah. People don't. Is we're writing right, Dan, Hernandez and Benji Samit right right with an amber sand and the the word and is people that came in before. Right. Separate sort of separate writings. Lucienne side right side. Right. Like you Griffin. I have been accused of carrying way too, much many times fun thing to hear that doesn't make you want to jump off of it. When you into specially when discussing an artistic creative enterprise care about you go to these meetings with people were like, oh my God. I'm still so coked up from last night. Any what your problem is you care too, much moved to L A? All right. I want it to be good. That's why on on literally day one that we started working on this movie. We came in and said the number to poke him on this movie is going to be side. Right. Of course. Because that is I mean, Dan, especially related I relate to side are. I mean, I don't know. If you guys have ever gone into something awful for him. But like they used to hit emoji. Right. Here's a big sort of heal. Right. Yes. So it just to me see those are the kind of decisions that we had that we personally made early on that. I think are I'm the most proud of some of those things because we sort of pitched the potential of this character. And I think that you'll see from side of side from the advertising from the trailers and the response confidence the break-up he's the bring character. But we sort of said at that initial meeting we think he can be the break character. Obviously peak is gonna be beloved. But so the. The. Yes. So that was a long way of saying that credit arbitration can be very stressful. As much as we right? Let's talk about it. So basically in any big not necessarily any big movie yet in many, many big movies. I would say most. Yeah. The the credits that you see on the screen don't necessarily do not represent the amount of writers who worked on this project, especially this usually as tens of writers friends of writer so you'll see but because of writers guild of America rules on the screenplay credit. There can be up to three entities evangi count as one shirt shirt. So he can have three entities for that. And to entities for the story. Right. Right. And there's there's some different Benji has like a masterful. Command of this sort of the new art. Can you say the different twin story and screenplay or what is the difference between stories scream sort of created elements versus dialogue and scenes. Yeah. I mean screenplay is I think the actual things that they base it off of our dialogue contributes the screenplay. The unique like seen structure within the scene. It's some of the characterization seem shirt stuff. Like that. The the story is really. Yeah. Your your big picture beat for be. Yeah. The characters things like using which stuff from the game to dapper shirt, the actual movie. That's the other weird thing with story Kratz on something. That's based off of something. It's like in in a nightmare. Alternate reality where you guys got pushed off this project early. And most of your stuff was rewritten. There's an argument like, well, they were the guys who pushed for side, doc. So they kind of get a story by credit aside. Ach has a large role happens. And so. You have these these these two elements story and screenplay and in general. You will then you'll so you'll have let's you'll have the first writer the first person that's gonna put pen to paper. And and that, you know, and then they say thank you screenwriter one. Great job. You're either going to go do another job. We don't like you anymore. It was that Nicole Perlman for this in case, Nicole Perlman came in at the very beginning, very beginning of the process and then. Relatively early on. She then had to go back to captain marvel. She she's one of those timing. She's great. Yeah. Right. But sort of maiden industry off of being the first crack at a screenplay, right? Feel like a very full docket jumping from one thing to another in this show lay out the foundation for she was she was really just she did the first outline she'd ensuring through the first screenplay. Sure. And so yeah, it was a little it was a little different, right? I think originally she was going to do the first play. But. So Dan, whatever it was she had to go to marvel labyrinth movie. She wasn't on that. But she's the person who might serve identify the basically out of the skeleton such as your for example, peekapoos detective on the case. So if you look at the credit, she also has store credit, right? Yes. So then, you know, you might go through if you're lucky you'll be the writer and you'll stay on the project from beginning to end. But if other things happen, or if you're busy or some of these screenwriters are so booked that they give dedicated about the time, and then they go onto another project. So then other writers to come in. And so then those writers begin to make changes, and then you know, and that can be anywhere from you know. One two three two two doesn't doesn't right depending on their stuff. They'll bring. Punch-up jokes, or you know, story breaking rooms, which I just imagined people being like what if he said like that's gotta hurt. And they were like here's twenty thousand dollars. It is kind of like a not quite dollars of standing right behind. Fifteen, but if you looked at some of the names who pitched jokes on on these movies, I won't I won't say it, but sterling really genius people. I mean, amazing. Oswald has been very open about the fact that that was his. Fifteen or twenty years before he really kind of broke into the mainstream as documents another one who always in the room. So there's a lot of people who are absolutely like genius who are coming in and doing this. And so now all of those people have to be taken in consideration. And then, you know, if you have a director who's writing the director is also working on case. A bunch of writing for this, right and deservedly got credit. So now at the end of this whole process, you know, we wrote this movie two years ago. Over two over two years ago. Now, they're like, okay. We need to figure out who gets what credit on this movie. And that process is done through the writer writers Bill of America are right, right? So basically, you get the final shooting draft, and you sort of have to make a legal argument in a way. The studio makes recommendation of who they think's you get credit. Sure. And then you know, you can protest it. Yeah. If you don't think that it's right. Representative of what the credit should be right. And you know, if there's a protest, you don't know who triggered the protests, or you know, there's certain things that trigger automatic right, which ration- like in this case, we were we knew we were going to have an arbitration because when the director is a writer, it's an automatic arbitration. Sure. Sure. 'cause I wanna make sure that the director not in this case, sometimes director might want to just get credit for everything right? Sometimes director like will tweak a couple lines and say that they can I'm writer on in the old days. I think that this was it. Right. Right. Like in the, you know, the the studio days like. So. Yeah. So then they send you, you know, the the final script, and they also send you every draft from along the way, right, and you read through everything and. Right statement. Worse job is the the reader the WG a who has to read through like eight hundred dreamt, so they have. Well, that's exactly right. And so then it goes to a panel of three are arbiters who are other writers that have been through this process. And you know, they do their best to to place authorship on to get the most work, right? And there are certain numerical thresholds that you have to hit which is kind of to me like amorphous. And and you know, the difference between thirty three percent thirty two percent, right. You know, I made the joke occasionally like when I saw captain marvel. I was like well every stunt cat was credited by net. It was like Nova and Luna, scratchy. But probably someone who wrote twenty five percent or theoretically someone who had risen by out of that movie would have their name literally not on the moving. Right. And they're weird things where sometimes, you know, they bring in a writer to rewrite something just because they're like we need another. Pacifists? But sometimes the bring people in as like a skill shooter where they're like the villain isn't working or we just need the dialogue tightened up or the story. Last thing makes no sense. Sometimes depending on how much of an influence that one element has someone could get a disproportionate credits on the film because they're pass ended up even though it was only meant to affect the one thing. So you have all of these different factors. And then ultimately they make a determination. And that determination is what you see on the on the movie and Arqes we felt very happy. The we got the first position on the screenplay on the story because we felt like we were there at the beginning of this this end for better or worse if you. Like, the movie that's very much on us. And if you hate it that's student. You guys put a lot of the meat on those bones. I would. Yes. I I mean, I think, you know, the the process work the arbitration in in my opinion was fair and gave it to the right people. You know, I think us, and rob and Derek the credited. Did did the bulk of of the screenplay, and I think it's a few of the other writers that didn't end up getting credit. It was. Yeah. It was more targeted stuff. You said. I don't think they were expecting at it. There is a debate in the in writer circles weather, people who don't make their names for the screenplay or the story by deserve. Additional writing material red shirt. Provide animation cO WPA right jurisdiction. Yeah. There's an additional writing credits. Yeah. And I think it kind of makes sense. I it seems like it would make good sense. Because it's also like you have a lot of people. There are so many of the most successful screenwriters in Hollywood have no credits to their name. Right. And it's like within the industry, they get hired a lot because people know that they did the work on these things, but they don't have anything they can actually sort of site as a produce work where their name was on it. Right. And as you know, it's in it's like, you know, you know, on the tick all of the writers were working on everything, right? Everyone episode it we're consulting producers on every episode of into right? And, you know, different writers, get different producer credits or staff writer story editor, right? And you have your episode episode two is your episode, quote, unquote. But that doesn't imply that you guys wrote that entire episode on your own or that you didn't work on any other episodes. Correct. That's right. So I personally am in favour of additional writing material credit. I think there are some legitimate reasons why some people are against it. And you know, I I I understand those reasons, but there is something to me. That's a little itchy that someone can work. Yes. The right lines that people say in the movie and the Dunkin the recognition for it. But you know, it's it's in my opinion as it's like the best process. We have this time, it sure not to say that it's perfect and mentioned I've actually both been arbiters. Well, it was the same the second. We we won arbitrate. Killed immediately called us, and you wanna do feeling good. Yeah. It was good that we did it because it was really interesting to be on that side of things do realize once you are in the position of making determination. We took it extremely seriously. And you realize that actually it is best to have fellow writers adjudicating, this kind of thing because there are some nuances that other people who aren't in it in that way might not necessarily be like if you had a lawyer, right? Right. From the credits and everything it's also like, that's that's the line between whether or not you're potentially in line for residuals and everything right yet, which is humongous whether or not you have an ongoing financial stake in the right? So for the five of you who were hoping for an in depth exploration of the credits. Peak achieve. Expecting that. I think it's really interesting personally. I mean, I think that the process of I do think that the process of putting a movie like this together just in its DNA is so radically different from someone who is making an independent movie. Yes. Who's got their script that they're championing right or years? This is not a blacklist. This is not this is we have friends who are like putting together the financing for their movies. Trying desperately go to Europe and shakes on day. One of us writing. We were already meeting with concept artists, and he was going to get. Seeing on right, right? You know, just off like we're pitching ideas for scenes that they start the like animating, Anna Matic's for without us having dialogue for it. It's a speeding train. And it's like you guys can't stay on. And they're gonna find someone else to conduct. It's going to let you see. I mean, I think that once you have a lot of different experience. Benji I've been very fortunate in the sense that we've worked on single Cam television. We've worked on multi Cam television. We've worked on big studio movies. We've worked on smaller movies. We've had animated script. You know? We've we've been fortunate to like get to play in a lot of different realms, and you do realize that while the skills are very similar and can be you know, certain things are applicable to everything there are nuances to each of those things that are kind of you have to kinda learn the the intricacies of them in order to. I think be successful. David your credit? How often do you give something the full five star? Something a five to take the pee cheer Brooklyn. And she that's about it. Let me ask you this question as well. When when you take a rideshare app. Right. Like a whole fucking review where you're like. Oh, it started out kind of intriguing, but it fails to pay off in the last drop off. I don't know not really giving five stars. Yeah. Always know you may commercial it. I do I'm saying five means something in this day and age sure you could set that up with me beforehand. Well, why would I need to sit up with you before him? Because obviously, I'm talking about Brooklyn incredible feeling of five star hotel sheets difficult expensive because she's like that at home, you spend through your life and sheet. So it is time for. I actually just changed the sheets on my bed, and I'm back to the Brooklyn's. And it is always a good feeling David one non Brooklyn impair, you know, you. It's like when that one's on your like. I'm Brooklyn our bus right now. And I just wanna say I would love it. If you would please let me talk about the new sheets. My friends have been raving about recommending, Brooklyn dot com. Winter the best of online betting category by good, housekeeping. That sounds like that's their best picture. I think it is also Ted rave reviews from business insider -partment therapy men's health. 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I mean, certainly the setting the university from taking place in the majority of supporting cast that stuff's being passed over to you. And it's like you have to pick which elements you have to curate from here. Then there's the video game which in terms of like is not a very straight adaptation of the video game. It's like Pika you can talk. He's a detective mystery partnership with a human in rhyme city said the and it's the same thing of like people are out with their out with Pokemon. And yet it was a bit of a challenge at first because. Yes, like the entire universe of Pokemon is a given that's being handed. Yes. But because this is such a weird side were like we're now writing script where like polka movie where we can't really use polka balls. Right, right. There's no battling. There's no trainers. It is. So a lot of like this the obvious choices of things like the state the old standbys. Yes. There's no team rocket and do that. Right. I've sometimes compared to reading source movie without a lightsaber or the force. Right. It's like a movie if what if you went to Maasai Cantina, and there was like a sort of one to one mystery to deal with we just say on. On drink and left. Ever showed up. Yeah. Say this too. It's like watching was like, this is what I kind of want the Star Wars standalone films to feel like it's just a sandbox, and I just interviewed the Russa brothers about avengers. And I asked them like couldn't couldn't marvel make like a forty million dollar move. Like, isn't that possible? And they're like, obviously, theoretically, maybe, you know, but like they weren't they weren't like. Yeah, we totally want to do that. But you could make a a ground level movie in any of these. I feel like that's what TV was. Harry satisfying act reason I felt the same like there was a series of books when I was like tails for mostly Cantina. Yes. Yes. It was like what's the bartender up to, you know, Han solo is doing and I would watch them. Felt like there's like stars. For instance, does seem like there's room in the Star Wars universe to just have a Harley. Oh. Oh. One hundred percent, the Star Wars crime movie like what you know. And I don't know if you remember do you remember like before Disney bought? Star Wars George Lucas had been like, we've commissioned seventy scripts. Wire of Star Wars. I was so pumped. I was like, yes, we're the fuck is the water of that. Right. Not to say, I don't look up what it was going to be called. I do love, you know. I mean as a fan like I'm in on it. I'm gonna see it everything. But it does sometimes feel like there is room within some of these bigger franchises to kind of do something a little weird. It is incredibly weird though that this is the starting point for the live action ration-, and you go. Okay. So you're not making a red and blue movie, you're not adopting asterik. And then like the b or the c would be like you have to make a new emotional story about a Polk Amman trainer. And then you guys moved to like twenty seven like moved off the alphabet and into numbers. Well, so so what we tried to do since we couldn't do poke trainers or any of that stuff. We wanted. We thought about like, well, what is something from the Pokemon universe that we can carry over. Yeah. And and what we focused in on was the concept of evolution, which which I think is really switch is, you know, right? That's inherent to Pokemon Pokemon. So we wanted to write something about like, what does it mean to evolve like not just poke amount of all Ving, but can people evolved a relationships evolve. So that was sort of our day one starting point that we worked off of. But that also brings in the whole interesting thing about the I when I was like fucking twenty and dumb. I like stayed up until like six o'clock in the morning. It's thirty thirty end. Right. But I stayed up until like six o'clock in the morning, I friend John writing fucking poke Amman pitch are fucking insane. Edgy violent Pokemon pitch. That was I guess, I'm sure jail. I was I was arrested briefly. But it was the oh, the Polk Amman snap, and they turn against the humans and zombie movie with the Pok my because I was so. Even writing this. Great. No when I was college. I get drunk in Iraq, right? Star Trek erotica. It was like. It was not not in earnest. But like my friends would provoke me and be like come on. Okay. Because I was so fascinated by like the weird like underbelly of like the polka. My franchise never talks about her. This is kind of a weird abusive relationship between the humans and the Polk Amman sometimes the games would. But then it would always be villain who is saying things, and it would turn out he had some ulterior motive and forget about it. But this movie from the gecko like even in what you're talking about the relationship with volition. It's like this uneasy thing between the humans, and the polka mom where it's like they have this dominance, but the humans also sort of like feel like insignificant next to the poem because they have the ability to grow in this way. And in that like Verhoeven like back a train video you explain the thing of how like. History. See the hieroglyphic where it's like humans have had this weird like transactional like using their powers Italy, or or whatever it's called in Egyptian cave painting and people are trying to find the MU bones because they're like probably the key to this whole thing. It was you knew bone shit. Poke postpone pokey bones. Oh, right. Yes. Bone progenitor bones. So yeah, I mean that was something that we sort of had to make some decisions about screenwriters. And what we settled on which I think is one of the best parts of the movies idea that the Pokemon have an emotional understanding of their. Yeah. That always felt kind of true too has to be right, right or right or wrong. I do feel that I have that. With my dog. I feel that my dog has an innate understanding of of like, yes. And sometimes dogs don't obey. You is. Right. Him on won't obey its. I think it goes. Yeah. It's like that. But even further in all the Pokemon anime and games, right? Right. There is a communication between trainers and hokum on and yeah, we just wanted to explore that and take it further a little bit more explicit that there is actually while you were choosing Pokemon that they also have to choose you. Right. I think is something that that's a line. You have in that opening sort of where Justice Smith is hunting, Cuba, hunting wrong. Casing. Yeah. And you just had that line sort of tossed off line. But it kind of settles a lot of the weird questions of the whole relationship polka ball. You have them the feel like he kinda hit like some of the familiar beats of like, this is the live action GameBoy watering grass. Yeah. Right. I don't know if you guys know this. I addition for that role. He did you hear this should for the the France, right, right? Who gets a ninety percent of the roles? I addition for deserve at least, he's very he's very good actor, but the sides that I got because I showed this David because I wanted to make David probe that had gotten a tech the peak audition this sides for this audition. They tried to like rewrite the skies them. So they would know that it was a. So they changed it all to dog related nouns pooches. Yeah. In the so instead of Hokka ball. It was baseball through a baseball pooch. Actually, the truth is out. Now, I guess we actually wrote pooches. Yeah. He wrote detective. Check check this. We had a pitch, and this is all grafted on after the fact, and they were like this could very quickly become a Amman. I don't know. Never heard that. I've never done not familiar. You wrote the script about asshole kids throwing baseballs at maybe this. That was the other implication was so weird because it was like look at that dog out there in the field here. Throw a baseball. I think the thing that you guys do not touch on. That would be the hardest for any movie to touch on is the fact that in the game you can just put like hundreds of Pok Mon into a computer and never think about them. Yes. I don't know that life is like Pokemon. You know, it's fine when you have your team and you're walking around, but then you're just catching these. Yeah. Put him in the computer, whatever right here about them. Another retaliated. The ball. Logic is like tough like it's fun to watch the one ball seeing the beginning. But then I'm like, I'm glad we're spending this way from the ball because I just start to go like is it like my dream of Jeannie like we cut inside. Or they like lounging on a couch. Think there's a lot of interesting stuff to be done. Sure with that. So I sort of you know, we'll see if that gets explored in the future in some way. But that yeah. I mean, get I personally like the think that there is something luxury assured that it's like the target is it's huge, and they live happy. Maybe that's about it think it's one of those things in live action. Not as you said, it shouldn't touch it in other live action Pokemon always of which I seem now ninety seven. But there is something different. You gotta catch all those films in live action versus animation where if you have a dude walking around with a belt with like six balls on every step. He's taking your life. So there's like. Right in there. That guy has a seed lizard. What I do think that for people like my mom that shows one good thing about doing it as detective Pika choose in this context because there there is some familiarity that many people are bringing to this that they keep him in the balls and they fight. Dr people that have no context for this. What's going on? Right. We have to call the ASPCA or. I don't know like the other guys talk about the relationship between the humans, and the Pok Mon in everything it reminded me of like like his dark materials like like the weird sort of Damon. Yeah. Yet of like when you have the early seem with Ken Wantanabe who is fucking killing it, and this move one of my favorite actors, and I did not get to talk to him. At the premiere was he there was there on the red carpet or the yellow car. I was like next to him. And I was like almost like that. It was it was and then he was gone. It was like David he wears the shit. I have a door. So looking. Very straight. So in the I I was like. Oh shit the last samurai. Yeah. Yes. A haughty is. I mean, he's very good in almost anything. He does he was on stage and the king, and I you know, gotta Tony like you can do anything. But unless the helix so thoroughly embarrasses, Tom Cruise on screen is a charismatic performance. I love Tom Cruise. Let you talk and samurai is his strongest performing. But like that seen or can watch obeys like doing a play for people in the Los Angeles. Yes. For the ninja. Exactly. And he's like you're like, oh my God. This guy is like like face melting Lee charismatic, can I can I you defend defend, Tom. Hammering on the floor is a moment in that same sequence. Yes. Where at the end of it. And I think it's beautifully shot. I love the way to look part is that at home of your shop. And there's a scene at the end of the ninja attack where Ken Watanabe and Tom Cruise are standing back to back. Oh, yeah. At the end, and they're just like in the in the in the midst of like battle fearing, right? You know, and and they kinda look at each other. And they understand understand each other at that is some good face accurate from Tom Cruise that is. He's a great face. I want to rewatch the movie anyway, it's been it's been to come back for that one. Please. Let me come back for that one because I studied series. Yeah. For this week. Yes. I'll come back for this week. I just like in that scene. The dynamic of like, here's this conversation happening between two humans, and then everyone all you cut out like a shot. And he's a clean demurring rush. Nationally is like he's like, I don't know like a German shepherd or something might have like an animal that you know, is sort of like almost a little tough guy because are other worldly there is that thing of just like, you know, with dogs. We're like do do they get like I want to believe my dog like an eye on the same level? They don't have the same sort of facial expressive nece to know that they totally get what's going on and the Pokemon on this. You're like you can tell which Pokemon get it which ones don't you can tell which ones are keyed in and which ones aren't which ones are kind of like wild, which one's more sophisticated. This is another thing. I loved was just like anytime, you have these sort of scenes of the city. I mean, especially that that the first scene where he gets the train. But like I feel like movies like this. They get so drunk with the potential like we can do anything that it just becomes like fucking noise. And watching this there's like a weird amount of restraint and how the Pok or animated where some of them are just like sitting on a bench. Yeah. There's. When he checks into or where is it when he adds apartments apartment, and there's the one against the glass early moving, and it's animating these things like they could be practical. They're not over animating them because they can. And so you just have these little things we're just like the flicking of like eyelids little muscle spans, the guiding principle from rob at the very beginning was just like with make it real. Yeah. Real and. Yeah. So it's not like, overly flashy or silly. Or like what you know? What is the thing that this would be doing to appeal to little kids the most like if if there was really a lizard, Pokemon? It would probably just be stuff to window like that feels like it's a given. And it makes it kind of. I would imagine a slightly easier by and for people who aren't like invested in Polk Amman because the movie just treats it like this is just like a thing. And you gotta roll with. Yeah. Sure. But then also Mutubu is in this move, right? Which is. Which is like somebody words with me. Exactly. Like, this is more like deeper Lor like you should maybe know what we're talking about understand this. I feel like that's boulder. That's a little risk. I don't know. I mean, it was you know, Mutubu was one of the harder elements to nounce when when writing it, and I think that that was something that that everyone worked on throughout the entire the movie because it does require a little bit of deeper Lor. And it does require an understanding that there are like. I don't know tears of Pokemon that well, this one is there's a lot of peekers out there. There's only one there's only two it's sort of. It's man made its powerful than anyone else. It's kind of a person. Talk powers. It makes smoke monster. Yes. I smoke monsters get real big and heat. They fight for the MU to right? That's the power. Oh, no. Was just guessing like a psychic Pokomo terrorize your brain like that. Freddie. Krueger. Sure. Yeah. There is so forth. There is a lot of gas in this movie, then gas little files purple gas charge up interest is like an evil drug. Oceans potion. Weaponized potions low or please scientists. Trying to think what else is going on in this one. David. I don't know if you've heard the news start spreading shoebox died recently. That's true Peterman laughing because the very serious, we Santa legend. Yes, we do stand. A legend oldest friends on the show. It'd be clear Peterman Hugh died. Two bucks is owned by Disney, and we'll live forever. Only time will tell. Disney very respectful company that never explained type pass it Selby. But let me just say this. What's the thing that both true Baca and Peter Mayhew have in common had in common? They were over the age of thirty five great hair. That's true. You see those who had good hair until the end Shuba has great here is a walking corporate team. Disney is gonna kill him. The next two months. They're gonna kill him before rise of the Skywalker comes out there. Just to message it'll short we lost him. They're gonna kill you in SNL digital short cannon. But what he's going to die with a full body a hair. 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Okay. Do you agree? You're here. She's nodding. Just for this ad. She's never going to be an episode again. She flew in this ad read. I told her I got a joke in the chamber. All right, listen, I have to do action. You must it's mandatory miles. Nurse can get started with hymns complete haircut for just five dollars today right now while supplies last and subject to doctor's approval. See website for full details and safety information. This could cost hundreds if you went to the doctor or a pharmacy somewhere else. So just go to four hymns dot com slash check. That's F O R Rams dot com slash check for him stuck com slash check dollars. K what did you think of the Joe plus? There's also a moment. My favorite Pok Mon very well represented in this movie did. Oh, yes. Rules, but the rules of Ditto or you're like woo. Yeah. It'd be when they introduced in the game, you're like, wait. Is this a loud did? Okay. Just be anything. Right. I started pumping my face at Ditto reveal. But also was like you need to go into the movie knowing that Ditto exists. You have the one shot of Ditto earlier. Yeah. Don't worry about it. It's still functions on the story level. But I'm saying the moment where he says it's a Ditto right before the Ditto reveals itself, I was cheering was cheering. My momma be like, let's just watch just watch. What he did? It's always a balance because when you write I I would say in general, there's a tendency in the first. Screenplays to over explain because you are thinking about those sorts of things when you're writing which is like, well, we need to expand with the Ditto is and we need to like what like who who broke ground on rhyme city. Company did they use? Yeah. Which construct, you know, so you're they used Pokemon do they actually in the there's a little bit of movie, but there was like in the original screenplay like like girders doing a lot of of gas. We really like very Flintstones were gravely study was like, what is the infrastructure? Do they Bill? So you there's a tendency to go into it. And then I think that when director or whoever is watching the movie sometimes the things that you think are important guests proved not to be as we found that on the tick. Yes, I'm sure that you you probably saw some of the drafts and process, and then when you see the finish episodes like we just for example, like what's the clue going to be? Is it going to be a shoe? Is it going to be right? And it'd be this isn't going to be glasses. Is it going to be a truck? Is it going to whatever? And so what you realize I felt when I was watching the season. I was kinda like, you know, what we spent so much time picking the clue making this looking. Yeah. And it literally did not matter then then may feel differently the of the, but I. Felt like yes it worked. But but also like the the proportion of time spent to like the labor. Room the amount of time spent on that chew, right? Was no I'm I remember being in the room. I think when the shoe was being argued for like ours. Ours we read so I think sometimes that happens when you start to go to the edit. Yeah, you start to be like, you know, what maybe there's some people that are going to be confused by did of. But maybe most people are going to. He shapeshifts shaping. Okay. Right. So time you get to that. Like people are already on board with so much craziness that it's just like, right? You're either you're either already well on board or we already lost visually established. Yeah. So you know, I wanna make it clear I was fully on board. But it is true. You're not rock. I mean, there's a lot of moments like that in the movie where you kind of just got to go with it. And I think that some people will be able to and so people will not, and that's maybe okay. But also for property this big. It's not like, you know, you you can presume that a lot of the audience is going to have some base knowledge. You know? That's that's not like an insane assumption to be like the one fifty one are in the cultural vernacular Iringa Ditto is such a fan favorite rate that. Yeah. You you think that most people would have some? Idea about if you're any amount of a fan. I'll tell you thing. I didn't have an idea of until I watched the movie I am sexually attracted to women. Did oh is. Waterhouse with little beady nude. I mean, even here we see Chris gear with. No, maybe. No. Well, actually, we did. We did was into that. I was into any human form. That's a brave admission. This is very high. Show one issue. You're I think you might be in trouble. I don't think you're gonna find it did a white person in the real real. Hey. Hey. Body Mods now. Like some reality you pay enough. Yeah. You can find it. I have a beautiful girl girlfriend ger beautiful. Metal plated is named TC for. I got no complaints on my aunt in this movie pitchers. Detective right? This isn't important thing that we haven't really a hat. He has a has a little case coffee. Clues. Let's Clinton he's got a thirst for Selva case loves it. He's voiced by Ryan Reynolds. Did you have any concept of like what kind of personality you wanna the act like when you're writing like, obviously in writing with the knowledge that like this is a Ryan Reynolds role. Right. It was pre Ryan Reynolds writing involved. I think this is where we were really inspired by like classic Noir. Right. Or like we wanted him to feel like a, you know, middle-age Noir detective, right? And that was John Pollino in the big lebowski. Very super deep cut. About him. No like, Fred macmurray. I don't know something. Like, right. Like those guys. One of those kinda like told drinks water. I have been obsessively reading Raymond Chandler jer. And I actually really love the original radio shows of Philip Marlowe vistors interesting with a guy named Gerald Moore. Who was it's actually quite well, okay. It is probably not interesting. But it's very interesting to me, which they tried to do this Philip Marlowe show with this guy van Heflin, and they did the pilot episode. They did pilots radio shows and. The episodes called red wind, and it's okay, it's fun. It's like pretty good. It's kind of you know, by the numbers a few a year later. They were like, you know, what let's try this again, we're going to get this Gerald more. We're going to do the same pilot. Wow. So you can actually do it comparison of the two pilots. The exact same. It's maybe a little different. But same store it's called red wind. And when you listen to the difference between these two guys, you're it is nine day, this guy, drove more was in credible. And so I was really at night immersing myself in kind of Newark classic Noir from forty nine fifty these books. And so when you go deep that or even things like the narration and blade runner. Right. Original cut off in the news director, Scott, right? Not that. It's actually prefer the director Scott. But just trying to get a sense of these classical Eddie valiant in Roger rabbit, being a great example. Probably my maybe my favorite example. I didn't even think of Rodrigue that's huge. Because that's also I wore movie set in a completely bananas words, very bright warm. Yes. And that's really interesting that you know, Nuoro sort of an attitude in some ways and so few PG Noir films, which this like proudly wears even even rod rabbit is is a little harder edged and say a lot harder. No question. But what I think is great about personal Bob houses was like he is so into the he should have won six Oskar that you're no one gave that performance enough credit when you look back at some of these performances that weren't lauded. Yeah. And you're like actually the degree of difficulty in what this man was doing was impossibly who's working before anyone was used to sort of tennis ball act like he's working needed the process an actor of doing all of that. When they didn't understand what the reference points were. And like the guys were like editing that movie would say like it was incredible. He would like look at Roger rabbit. He would like turn around and do some business in the office. And then he would like find. The exact point where Roger rabbit would have traveled. You know, in attendance without them guiding seems insane. And by the way, Justice Smith, who is the protagonist very great actors, and he does a very his it amazing job of having chemistry with an, you know. All right. Is he holding a little doll like is there a thing in in some shots like a doll? Yeah. But you know, sometimes it was just all like, and there's someone playing the part onset or doing a dialogue off camera. But it isn't Ryan Reynolds. I mean, it's this weird thing having to do chemistry like silo as forces that have to cut together, so in so in any value case what I think is so brilliant about that movie. And it's one of my favorite is the reality in which he plays everything so straight. Yes. Yeah. These are real this issue. Tune cold is suck. Yeah. Tunes. Fuck it hates tune. And it's what makes that whole journey so rewarding by the end when loosens up is one of my one of the best arcs of any sort of protagonist by a just learning to. Learning the thing like attuned learning like know how to relate to them. And that's why one of my favorite moments in Pika CHU is the moment. Where Justice is character. Tim has a very motion speech to a ball before. Yes. And that was what is weird or things that engine? I have ever written. Yeah. We're sitting there like being like, I mean, we had this conversation. Like this to Weirs is full dramatic speech to a bull before they can't talk. But we just we we believed it, and and and we wanted to put it stayed through the end because. Yeah, I think it has that. Grounded reality to the whole thing. Like, this is real the stakes are real like. And it also was like this kid needs to learn how to communicate with these things on there that was to me the biggest influence from Roger rabbit, which is I think that that was so ingeniously done, and we really wanted to try to similarly capture that now, of course in red rabbit. They can talk back, right? So little bit, you know, other than detective matscher, but you know, you're semi biscuits. And yet like that kind of you get, you know, their personalities a little bit more. But that was definitely intentional on our part and something that we gave a lot of thought to and I was actually really pleased with the way that it came out in the movie. Well, just I mean, the thing I was very impressed with watching performances I feel like in this is a thing that bugs me often in films like this where someone has a tragic back story, and they kind of don't play it for ninety percent of the moving. Like, they only play the weight of the things when it's convenient for the scene, and they drop it whenever it gets in the way of anything else. I don't think there's a scene where you lose track of the fact that he's grieving over his father, even when it's like a funny scene. Yeah. I think he carries that technically the performances like insane because he's acting with a thousand species doing insane things all the time. But the thing is kind of like what you said in a less tragic away or maybe less violent way. He does have a bit of the valiant thing because it's like he's a kid who grew up loving poke Amman you want to be on trainer. Like most of us who grew up watching or playing polka Mon, and then he sort of like fell into the like, I think I have to grow up. I have to get a job. And also, I resent the fact that my father left me and spent all his time solving poke Amman crimes like I live in the real world that poke Amman world is some other kid business. And someone asked us a really good question. The other day when we were doing an interview they said did you intend? And for the arc of that character to sort of mirror. The ark of someone who was of szeswith Pokemon, and maybe got over it and then back to it. And I'd like to say that that was one hundred percent conscious. I mean, there definitely was some of it share. But I do realize now that there is a a very. There is a parallel there. Yeah. That is is I think that on some level that was what we were writing about you know, that you go from. I guess this comes back to the fandom that you know, it's like something that you just love with the intensity of kit. Right. Most intense thing that you that first blush of like, this is my thing. I'm forging my density around this thing, this is going to be part of me that I carry forward even if I start to drift away from the thing itself. And now we're hoping that what we're seeing on Twitter from people who have seen the early early screenings is people being like, I feel like again or I. Yeah. Or be like, I hope my favorite Pok Mon is in the movie, and that's very rewarding. My mind is not in the mood. I'm sorry. Who's your favorite Paul? It's why would never pick squirrel because when Bozrah showed up who's a big one for me very excited. Even though I knew he'd been in the trailer. They have been bulbous. I like it. There were a lot of them though. We felt like right herds of Pokemon a rarely thought about like in the in the world. You know, it's always a very one on one kind of experience when you're playing the game. So I like it. There was a heard that there was some sort of weird unspoken bulbous ritual that was sort of happening above a source. And that's my other favorite scene in the movie actually is the build up to that. The the March of the ball is it's it's like weird. I had a similar I Ross I recently rewatch, my neighbour Totoro. Sure never gonna call up on this podcast, one of my very favorite movies. Right. But the reason I love it so much that it is so unexplained. Yes, logically to there is no logic. Child's view the whole time. It just is. Yeah. He'd write us is if you look into the right forest on the right day with the right attitude. You might get a totara of you're right. You're protected above a certain my own. Well, that's how I and that was exactly that above a savant zone but Griffin. Immediately leaned over Boba soaring. And I was like, I usually pick all sorts. I never picked skurdal because I don't I don't wanna get locked into my water. Say I was trying manner guy terminators four inches a kit. Terminator is is a tough challenge. In the first game. He's the hardest. Pok Mon he sucks against the first two, Jim. Yeah. He's going to turn into the best underdog narrative. Right, right. Whereas stories the easiest, but I just like because he's you know, he's just cool. He's got a flower. His he's so he's the cute. So when we're reading that scene. We wanted a sim, and I think the director and the DP everyone did amazing job of catching this. But it was on the page because it was something that we really felt passionately about. We wanted to capture this sense of like if you walk into the right grove. And maybe you'd see a heard of Bubba sorts of your life would be completely different. And better. Do you guys ever? Put him on snap know that game is very much. It's very like Hertie. It's you know, it's like it's that idea. Yeah. Idea for a game whoever came up with that thing. I love to where it's just like once again, not talking any shed about another video game. I'll tell you that might have had recently poorly received trade might be about like a fast being of some thing. Nonspecific as possible. All of these characters. Look exactly like the original designs. Yeah. Only sort of filtered. They've been put through is make them tactile. And I like that just like, you know, what if you're going to see a poke him on movie you have to accept that. Some of them have flowers on their back. Some of them are ghosts yet. Some of them are made of raw it is what some of. Mechanical while the Cuban wears his mother's skull. This is the world you're living in baby. So now, they just they got scales. And they got the weirdest thing to think about is like none of the Pok Mon technically have closed. So right. Mister mind. Yes. That's dan. Yeah. He's. That's you know, you know, colors skirt is just like a skin, right? Where you're like seeing Mr. Mimas as a kid. It was like, oh, those things on the side of his head are meant to represent like clown hair and just not detailed. And then you watch it in the movie and you're like, oh, they're like weird like vista jewel. Like, they're like his ears like, they're not a hair. They're like these blue sachse flooded chew has red dots. And he's just got some red except you don't go like well. But if he runs fast, he must have the body of using bolts, we need to give them a very realistic human musk, consumer illustration Boba sort the, you know, the designer of the game which remembers name Saotome, she to Jerry, and this guy like sat down, and they would go to zoos, and they would draw a little animals, and he that drawing looks exactly the same as Boba sort dozen this movie has been chain. No, no. And that was a that was. Movie keeping the same silhouette? Yeah. It's really just some of the texture textures. It really is. And that that makes them feel so like. The others. There's no need to reinvent the wheel side. I was very happy with that was like a moment where it's just like these guys get it. Because like you saying we wanted side up to the breakout character. Like if you grew up with Pok, Mon you're like, yeah. Of course, obvious who else would be the option. Like, of course, I is your scene. Stealer. I mean, he's the Pokemon that has a built in attitude. Right. Right. Right. He comes with the person, you know, when there's a personality that's already like half, a work was already done with him. So we were like, yeah, we have to have the crate Chekhov's gun quality of just concentrating out. Like don't make them nerve. Yeah. And you know, some people at first were very surprised at Mr. mine was such a big part of the thing. But it's a similar reason. It's because story gift that it's this is a person with a comedic welcome with comedian going to comedic game that you can play and take advantage of as writers. You're really looking or not only who are the coolest book moan. But which are the ones that you can infuse some personality to or some specific personality because you know, there's many Mr. mimes in the world, right? This one day, right? And that's that's funny. But also that thing of like, none of them can talk. But this one can communicate Mr. has a baked in language. Yes. So was the father thing in place from the moment that you guys came up was that part of sort of the original inception of the thing. Yeah. I mean that goes back to the game. Okay. Okay. So the game also has that kind of like the Twitter. We're looking for the kids that right? Yes. And I think that if I recall correctly the first detective at your game actually doesn't resolve that storyline gun. It's it's it's it's it's the one that we got the the original Japanese one was only the first few chapters of the game. So there was no resolution to the story. I think the one that came out here. The more. It's a little. But even then it doesn't fully spell it out. We do. So the wasn't element of like, okay? We have to try to make this feel earned. Yes. Much as possible. Right. We tried to write emotionally, I know the other people involved in the movie did as well. And and you know, that was something that. It was it was challenging to strike the right balance because you don't want it to me maudlin, but you also want to deal I hope earnestly with with loss and grief and give Justice something to play which he did. Incredible. I think he did an amazing job of doing that. And you know, so how do you do that as a writer? For me, my parents, and I have great relationship with my parents. But my parents got divorced when I was very young. And I remember those feelings of loss and the same as a parent dying. But you try to say okay from some emotional reality. Yeah. That and can we infuse some of had into this crazy? That's also has to be a movie kids. You have that challenge to you can't make it to visceral or, but you know, you wanna skirt that edge, not as a back Patty thing. But since season two came out, I've seen sewing people responding to the danger boat up associates, just like how did they commit this heart into doing this emotional scene with a robot boat, and the answer is and neither of us were in communication about this. And I didn't piece it together until months later, but as you guys know from being in the room, Susan her return, sin producer, who's main writers on the show whose incredible person her best friend died like very short. Before writing this. And she wrote the danger brought up funneling all of her emotions into that that sort of sense of loss. And I like a month before we started filming one of someone very close in my life. Got diagnosed with a very serious illness. And there are one hundred percent fine now, but I showed up on set not knowing that she had written it based off of something real playing that scene as if I was taught your thing, and she took her thing, and we never communicate with each other. And we have this thing where people are like, why does the scene make me cry? This is stupid. But also if you're good things are going to act these things like why show up if you're not gonna give your all against the bulbous. You're not gonna write based off of your your divorced from your child's finger exactly on the most important thing. First of all Susan is a brilliant writer and didn't know what was interesting is that she was actually supposed to write the second of the season, which you guys ended upgrade, right, right? And I sort of not not to say that like, obviously, I'm sorry that her friend pass away that was a horrible thing. But. The way that it fell. She was able to. I think it's the best of probably of the season yet. It's a month. I. Obstreperous is really good that one. You know, I like actually like. Pretty good. Dan, veggie him aboard. To bumps, but but but yes, she gave it everything. Yes. She and the way that you actually that that was like, okay. Yes. It's a boat, but we're gonna take this so fucking seriously. It's got break, your heart. I showed up on set. And I didn't tell anyone that's because I thought it was daunting. But I was like okay cool for them. When I read the script, I went this is the day where I'm going to funnel in all my executive about me. A losing the person. I love this person might die. And that's and I it that comes through. And so that's the kind of seriousness and kind of going back to the beginning of our conversation is like if you're gonna read a book to write a fucking Pokemon movie. Don't don't you'll your punches. Dopey disdainful of it. Yeah. And and I'm not saying anyone was that. I'm just saying, you know, that was how like that carrying too much thing. Right. Was like, okay. Yes. I'm gonna care too much about this right now and Benji about the same way. He was he was giving checks. Yeah. No. I just wanted as much money as possible and for the check to save Pokemon company. That's right. Yes. So I I don't know. I think that the DNC Azam gap or the versatility. Yeah. Is is sometimes like very apparent right? When you see things that maybe people didn't believe in that much. And I really hope that people like the movie and respond to it aren't listening to this before. But I, but I think they will. I do think there's a generational thing. And for people like me who I was held like eleven years old video game came out. And so I've sort of been steeped in like like, I am so happy to see a movie like this. If you're a little older, you're like that thing always pass me by this just I don't get it. I can see that happening. No, there are there are some critics that I've seen on Twitter, whatever that have been like don't I I went in thinking Pok Mon were stupid. And I still think they're stupid. Why were you the critic like I'm gonna go see this thing if you already hate Pokemon video game critics, and of course. Yes. The video game movie as we've discussed is rife with bombs sort of missed opportunities or like a studio being like candid on all the nerds shit. Okay. Just John coupla damn can be guile. That'll be fine. Right. You know, he wrote. That's here. One day really Sousa is a one. Yeah. That's. He's actually. Moody filter of he had one day. Yeah. It's actually an incredible accomplishment cast, everyone they built a set. And then we're like. I time is six AM tomorrow. I went deep on this. Once I think it's on. But someone was also talking about it. But it was a really wasn't situation where they're like, we don't we don't have a script streetfighter is like well, you just draw right from the video game. Right. These street fights am bison. Are you ready? So what you're talking about? And I just think video game fan seem to be responding. Very positive. I was seeing. Kotok like an emotional story based off video game world. Whereas most video game was the problem. They get into it's an action movie. And if you're watching the action scenes, you rather be home playing them. Well, that's the thing. It's like this sort of the the video game movie curse that people refer to there is a thing where. Unlike other comic books or books or anything like that a video game people are used to controlling hundred being control number of its story. They don't just want to watch action that they're not lay. Right. Like, what's the it becomes instantly less fun like watching assassin's creed happen than the second? No. You're gonna facade. A couple of weeks ago. Yeah. Good more fun to play. He's never played. You would love to play it even more. I'm like, assassins. That's why I pick you love. Read about that gotta get that apple. So I'll try the game. You gotta try. When we're doing the peak at you. Yeah. We're telling a different type of story. It's very intimate specific emotional store. You're not trying to capture the whole world. You're not doing the battles, which probably the one battles. Right. Gotta give people a little bit cool. Magic carpet ball the. Stuff like that. Something six stuff that was an idea that we had earlier that really got to be in there. We wanted to show that they're. Lucien? This useless thing. Now is not so useless. But I'm interested in your guys in about the video game curse. Because it wasn't something that I was thinking about when we were writing this moves really at all, especially well, you got pudding when you've all you've already got the anime in. You know, you have a little more than video games to draw so much and so many different games. It's been filtered through so many different lenses. I do sort of want. You know, I've seen a few review. Like, I, you know, you're right. The game media has been so positive. Yeah. And some of them were traditionally based on video games, we go go see I would love to hear that list. I've been like it's it's pretty good. Does it break? The video came curse. I don't think. So my friends, and I sort of like, well, what is the like like weirdly like every time. One of these movies comes out, it seems like the bar is impossibly high in a weird way. I. I hope that someone writes, the godfather of video games, and it wins all shows you pick twenty twenty three it is kind of a weird. I don't know. It's sort of a weird. I don't wanna say fake. But it's like it's like a self only prophecy. Maybe there is a little bit of like, it's like it's like a carrot that some people are dangling. Yeah. It's like did you break it? I don't think. So. But I think Benji onto the right thing, which it is like, it's it's speaks of the we're relationship people have to these things and sometimes have some like street fighter where you're like. Wow. This is an exciting world. Look at these characters what we're locations. There's no real story to go off here. Desouza is writing the script. And even that's impressive for a one day script person makes thing out of whole cloth. They wrote the king speech. Every movie with every good screaming. Here's here's some. Here's somebody game. So you've got your they've they've taken a few cracks mortal combat. I'm gonna tell you which ones that I think are good. Okay. Do you want me to go chronologically or by? Okay. Okay. Okay. So the first degree video game movie really ever is Kramer. Okay. Super. Mario brother. I think that movie that movie is Chris is crazy. I like it. I liked it at the time. I wrote a big piece fending sort. I don't know if I want to say, it is a good movie, but it is a caffeinated and like provocative movie, and it has these insane sets anyway practice, strong choices. Absolutely bizarre. Perversion of like a platform game about a little man who's running around. But like the guy to do something with Goshi model is super cute movie. The is Donald Trump Donald Trump. Yeah. Trump Trump Kupa such a perfect snapshot of the ninety s early ninety where they're like he had no, no guk. It up guys everywhere idea of how the mushrooms function sort of realistically quotes. Of course, Hoskins we've already been legs. Who who is one of my when he's he's I love. Odd sibling pair, but I love movies actually, weirdly aged while I. All right. So we then we have street fighter. Not not a great movie. Never seen a great one day. But a great in the annals of twenty four hour film festival. Screwing history. I would rank that one of the best. Paul W Sanderson enters the game the two mortal Kombat movies, which I haven't seen the second one. I barely remember. I saw the second one in theaters. And it was one of the more disappoint. I made my dad go. Sure. Sure. Sure. And my dad skipping a few of the little ones a fighting game. You fall into this thing where it's like hard. No. 'cause he'd rather just doing the fights at the time of strong characters. These great characters, and I have to say, I I actually really loved the first mortal combat, right? The Sanders because it did have sort of that nineties like techno techno. There is a vibe in that movie that is specific to like not even just like a decade, but like a few years within the decade yet. And I think that's kind of cool. All right. So we're going to keep going. We've got a while. Then we have Lara Croft tomb raider, which is not so good, which is sort of like grafting like, I don't know Indiana Jones e. Example of just that movie not working. I don't think any of the problems in that movie are connected to the fact that based off of a video not at all. I mean, they just watch they looked at the video game. This isn't the Enzi. Right. And she's a lady I think it's kind of. Candor movie. I like a lot. I actually liked that one. We all. So it does seem to be just maybe the first lark off wasn't. I remember seeing it as you know at the time. It was okay. Then there's the resident evil series, which is these sort of agreed on a I think masterpiece of video games sin about six of them. All kinds of insane director very fond of them their own there. They're separate from the video. They will have characters who are like kind of nodding into the game. But they're they're a hole, and they really like the millage of it's show, and she's the Queen of like gay movies. I sort of appreciate their commitment. They're good being super crates by the time they're in the fifth one. They're really like there. If you're still watching these than just similar to in a way watching like benches. We kind of the saw. Yes, lorgos goes so d- have once you get to saw, you know, five six seven like it's been dead for four movies. I think it was off five or six with flashback within a flashback within. And it's just like, okay. And so like, I don't watch it for like like, the torture stuff, whatever. But just in terms of like insane storytelling like flashing back to you thought you knew what happened this time, but actually this. Nope. Actually, this third thing was happening. And it's like, yeah. Okay. Resin even movies function in that way. And I think if they were more literal app -tations of the games, they might have had a harder time work. All right. Then it gets really dark because you have crept like a load of dark give to which is just sort of like. This is. Yeah. Silent hill, which is kind of like one of the great video games as art series. Like, they kind of take a crack at it. And it's sort of like visually interesting, but like ma-, right? It's all visual. Yeah. They take pyramid. Head like who is such a dynamic and crazy character. And he's just like a big tonight. Rich like going through this list. I perhaps the problem with a lot of these movies of the exact thing we've been talking about is hiring writers who kind of have disdain for the thing there or any of these people. Specifically, the directors are maybe it's the actress wherever it is. But a lot of these franchises fuel like either when resume evil works. It's like we're gonna make our own thing out of this and the ones that don't work like no involved. Maybe think they're kind of slumming it, and it may be that things are getting better. Just because like the generation of people that actually claims is now the age of people that are writing movies like us, right? Right. Right. The generations caught up. I'm sure that people were very hard. I know. I know. Pain is a great example of where it's like what do people like about max Payne? Let's not do that. Right. Right because I played all this game. And I love this game. The second. One is incredible is a massive. I've actually like Duar a well told strike. Great. And so they're like, well, let's not do that. Bewildering? Weird choice. And so, yeah, I think maybe we're tapping into something. But no. But then there's this final phase. I wanna get to which is warcraft assassin's creed tomb raider and the movies that are not well received. And yeah, often don't like warcraft was kind of Obama though to really well overseas. But those are movies written by people who like those games and are kind of like so deep on the lore like your craft in penetrable. Right. If you haven't like played no idea what I was walking. Right. And and and it sort of throwing you in the deep end, and yeah, the reaction was kind of bafflement, but like I sort of work I saw with my big world of warcraft friend, and at the end of the movie when the baby comes out he was like, that's the lead character. And I was like what are you going? What's? Prequel to the game. That's the actually care about his dad. And so now we've got like we've got to Texas peak. We've got an unnamed fast rodent, I don't know. What says? A speedy speedy the animal, you gotta Minecraft movie wins that happening it keep on and keep your schedule. Post is another one that I think is very daunting to. What Lewis right? Make a movie out of that. Like like, it's like the the old PC game for old Audrey like the grid, and you push the little boxers him mind swing? Making sweeper good make. Signed to minesweeper. What's wasn't your dad like the world's foremost minesweeper up there? He's he. What what what I'm thinking about as you're saying this? And I think maybe this is an advantage that the Pokemon has. We're talking about movies about adventures we're talking about movies about assassins. Yep. Yeah. We're talking about movies about fantasy world that while it is. It's thing is not unprecedented in the sense of we are familiar with the rings. We're familiar with orcs and warriors these things that are and this is a lethal combination often largely plot Lewis and very lore. Heavy. It's very hard to write a script or there's a ton of back story. But the plotting itself is kind of like an this happens, and then this happens and then this half. So it kind of is interesting that the ones that we kind of were gravitating towards our maros, very weird and very neat. Yeah. Mortal combat. Very specific to that. Very, and it's and it's very of its era, but not unprecedented like the fighting tournaments things. But you know, the way that scorpion is integrated that movie is very cool, and it's different. And it's not something you've seen a million times. So maybe there is something to embracing like the weirdness or the uniqueness of whatever the property isn't just say like, yeah. This is the fucking. We're thing that we're doing in turning it into generic copy of whatever move whatever John hot year doing that takes place in Wyoming, and apparently or seemingly from the trailers only in the last scene probably has the characters looking the way you remember them looking like a quick out of seven. I'm out of seven. Quite a spiny egg-laying mammal. I have noted we're talking about. But I also feel like yes, I don't wanna make it sound like I'm putting the blame for those earlier movies. Just like, oh, this screenwriter was a hacker this or that. But you also have examples where maybe like the writer cares a lot about and the director cares. A lot about it. And then a big movie star signs on. And they're like, I don't wanna do that stuff. Or it's the director who doesn't care when the other people did or whatever it is. But also, very often. I think we're living in a world where they understand the value of for for better or worse studios. Now understand the value of the IP is the IP. You don't strip mine it and find a way to get as little of the IP in the movie as possible and make the rest the phone catering to what you think mall goers wanna see if you're making a movie off thing, you wanna make the best movie of that thing, and represent everything that people like about that thing who will go back to what we were talking about at the beginning. I think you know, the fandom becoming the mainstream right has made it. So that's the case. It's like. Not trying to appeal to you know, random Joe. Right. Like, the most vocal people and the people still going to the movie theater, right? Are the fans that wanders confidence of knowing? We can write him for the hardcore fans. And if only the hardcore fans see it that's enough to make a movie a big hit. Right. And you know, you obviously want to write a movie that anyone gets it down and enjoy. Yeah. You want to write the movie I mean like you want something that anyone can enjoy? But you also want the people who want the movie to work the most to be able to enjoy not sit down writing to take the peak at you saying this is a movie that every single person in eleven. We were trying to make movie to try and cater to every perfect Quadra. Right, right. We we wanted to make something that the fans would love and that could also bring in some new fans that didn't realize that they love Pokemon forgot about final fantasy the spirits with him. Within is a very weird one kind of its own. Right. I didn't like I don't think it's like a great movie. But it it it's trying something. It's and it's it's definitely I mean, it's extremely you know, JR in its story. And thanks so like final fantasy is a great example of could they make a good movie final fantasy seven. Maybe. I mean, I don't know. But that's another. That's one where like if someone gave us that challenge. I would be like, okay, right. This is something that I really love. It's also one of those things where studios gonna have to be like sure take a huge budget. Like, it's not something you're going to like for nothing. So I think that. When we set out to write the movie, even when we were talking to each other. We were like, you say won't get a like this, and we were kind of going I think so, but maybe not maybe that's okay. Because we're going to try to tell the best version of this story that we possibly can. And you know, that's why I feel like. You know, I hope that it's a big hit. And I hope that you know, it gets pretty favorable reviews. But if it doesn't like, yeah, I remember I was gonna say is I had a professor in college. Who was a theater professor and was a pitcher. It was he could shoot professor pick. His name is Spencer Golub. He was the head of the department at Brown, and he didn't example one day of like, Paula specified. He sat on like acute just like a regular queue jer. And you know, it's like you say, and then like he was like everyone around any like did something he couldn't tell any sat on it. But there was something like appreciably different of the way that he was sitting on this cube. And it turned out that there was a hole in the middle of the of the cube that was making his city experience like uncomfortable. We could not see this whole, right? But we could tell that something had changed. And I think that screenwriting is when you actually give shit about the subject matter, and you're sort of thinking about things like. Okay. Well, we wanna reference total recall, and we want to put Roger rabbit into it and the third man these Raymond Chandler. I hope that like secretly embedded in this movie. Right. Like, even if you has no idea never listened spot. Doesn't know anything about what we did. Or why that there is some sense of like they seem to have an idea they seem to be like confident about whatever it is that they're trying to accomplish. And I think that the movie does the copy tonight. I'm proud of that. So here's a question. I don't know how much you guys comment on this. Or not David has one big takeaway, the end of the move turns me, and he goes I'm worried I did say this detective Pika cheese a star. I was like you guys got rid of detective Pika chew. And like, I mean spoilers the movie kind of takes them off the board of me again. This is coming out a couple of weeks after the movies. Yeah. He so good that I was almost like don't don't don't take away. Things like emotionally narrative of half. Worse. It's the point you to what was there any writing Warner Brothers? I'm like, wait a second. Hold up hold up about when the peach talks in Ryan Reynolds voice, though, we can't coffee. So I don't think it's talking about school to say at the script stage or at the planning stage. There was talk and debate about that exist exact issue. Yeah. I think that what was Alta decided upon correctly was let's tell the best story that we can tell for this movie. And if you wanna bring it back and later future movie. That's a problem that will be dealt with. Hopefully, a really cool. Great of what seems like the right answer to me. Right. Because it wasn't. You know, I it there were there are a couple of things debated while could we do this that do we preserve it in this way or that way? But ultimately, it was like, no, let's just tell the story. Let's make it a completed thought I mean, which is much better than the opposite franchisee thing where you like the movie ends kinda unsatisfying some leans over. Well, they've already signed the contract for this spin off. So that's why it's doing that. And you're like or my friends over and goes that babies the lead. That shit right, right, which I'd much rather see a film that can rose thought. And it does also in an interesting way kind of set the stage where it's like, I know I know they announced that someone's writing detective Pika chewed direct seat will. But they're also people I think writing other live action poke Amman moves at their incubating a bunch right now. But I Toby was incubated. Yes. I do. Yeah. Exactly Toca piece, you know, and right now, I like the idea that this like world set up and the franchise could just be what are other stories in the polka mine universe. Like what way they end up going who knows? But I do like the promise of just like, and the next film could be like a fucking legal thriller, and the next film could be like a trainer like it could be karate kid hokum, professor Pika to if we wanted to make clear that like rhyme city is still connected to the rest of the Pokemon shot up. Is that right? And so it's all it's all out there. And is a fertile, you know. Yeah. Ground for whatever story like him. David slow. Yeah. So don't worry. It's going to be okay. Okay. Okay. I just really connected to people working on this, even as we. All right. Ben, you have big you ought to say, we're basically detective. Detective detective Ben is on the case. Okay. I got some of my favorite parts of the movie. Okay. So you've now you surmise what you think happens in the movie from us talking about the process of writing my favorite Pok him on the motorcycle to frozen, mud, spike. I really love that moment when it came into the bar. They were he was aping heart. A lot of those in jersey. Right. I feel like yeah. Medical doesn't sound that far off. Floor favorite Pok Mon by far the burning tire Pokemon scorch? All these all could be because there was that moment like three generations where they were like any men made object could be opposed. Door. Yes. Bag garbage was one. I really wanted. Urban. In our early draft shirt. And I think maybe it was maybe too weird or something. But and then classic new are setting. I was excited to see in the movie was the quicksand factor course. Right. Any any good blockbuster verisign facs where are you calling phone? The quicksand. No, not what if what if you make it. I guess it's both. All right. What else it was kind of weird to see Kirby? Driving a blimp. Yes. That was a weird, right? Irvy's nintendo. He's not a or. Yeah. Oh, he's already mean. Like, Kirby Puckett or Kirby, Pokemon. He's he's curvy. And then of course, the ending which was so crazy as deadpool the whole it was said. So twisted, the movie came out a devil's brain Razi, anyway, a loved it. Well, I mean, that's that's a strong, isn't that? Can you go any higher than that? You can't that's the greatest publish on rotten tomatoes, right, man. Saying some of these people why would you even see this movie? It's not for you. Is there ever been a review so coming from someone more clearly on your side? Getting exactly what you were going for in the movie bents, flashing a peace sign. Beautiful. We're done, right. Have any like final odds is or anything you want to share as you? We wish people a happy detective Pika chill wall. Say I'm working on a new script. It's it's called night eggs on night. Eggs K 's about a detective who eats breakfast at night. This is not a joke e establish this eighteen months ago. He's been working on the script and the villains are which there's right who just which they use their witchcraft to to use as their hacking to access which kind of both. Oh, right. Right. I don't know once get further along what you guys like to take a pass talking about this off the air because that that we need to. Has anyone option this material? Chris Weitz is on board as a producer. Pre existing. All right. Chris collaborator. We can carve it out. Out like to talk to you further about this. Thank you so much. We love the world you're playing. World is. Benxi damn. Thank you so much for being here. This was a dream true. Thank you. I do want to come back for Edwards Swick when it's time. Sure. Movie hang Ori glory trying to think like other. One pot another cast. Well, we did have never go cast. Yeah. People forget he made the second Jack richer move. He did the legends of the podcast blood diamond. Isn't that? Pretty about last night. Did he do about did you? Yeah debut. He made you know, courage under fire. He made what's it called the jet? Bobby Fisher punts out on sacrifice on sacrifice mcquarters. I did two last role on on camera on camera. His last credit film role is the narrator of the boss, baby. That's right. So it sounds to me like this week, you know, fruitful night. It's it's talk off air about opportunity. We love the world. Yes. We love the possibilities. Potential. Spend you then thank you for being here. Thank you for to detect the poke on detective, Pok Mon. I'm sorry, Pokemon. Detective choose that was another thing. Because like when you see the poster you're like, oh, the polka might just be there as branding when the movie starts and the opening titles interest as Pokemon detectives right jazz. Hey, baby. Yeah. We were. We went right at it. Yeah. You gotta you gotta take a bite. What else? She's into the tick. Shit. About it. But what if we did tick, Pokemon crossover? Sure what if season three or is a case. Hair across or whatever. But you say this, but like ban is listening somewhere and be like what are, you know, not more or? Yes. Yes. How did you guess? I just think ticks interrogate him meow. Sounds good. But you couldn't really touch me up territory that was is one of the weird Pokemon to to start out with sad me. I wasn't in the movie there were just seemed like did you have me and certain drafts? Yeah. I think in wonder if he's mentioned like as a background, but not if team rocket is it's kind of like we can't even like open that thing right now. Yeah. So that's why I, you know, but I hope that you know in the future everyone will get to see their favorites. I mean, there was gangling in there and other my favorites you had some great ones didn't touch wag family. We've always wanted gingko from the beginning that we really wanted and looked soaping look great and his weird like you. Wing move. Yeah. Me of a great tiger in hunch out. Yup. You know, what he does the like the spinning whatever, whatever whatever, I know. We just talked about why certain video game movies don't work in all squarely in the territory will punch vehicle movie would be a cool movie the ones that are just cool looking characters fighting are the difficult one glass eye Joe glass. Joe? Yeah. Could be caught Nigel Davis. The one question you'd be little MAC, you'd be great. Vehicle a kid Chris I've been playing smash and I'm like man like nest dresses a lot like me. Who's your smasher who's your Fave? I've been playing his Ness. Most of the time you're in Ness, God, you're horror. No, that's not necessarily complicated. Like the most of the time play play his show Fairmount. Choose one of my face, my girlfriend, always wants to play as a show feud Ness, though, every time I pick them. She's like you just like him because he wears baseball caps. Fucking narcissist. Little classically I like gigli because I find that makes people go the most insane. You're eating is in character play. Thought Herbie was. Very. Yeah. At a bar. I like that too. Superpower Wigley tough. But that was a great movie. On this sort of less powered retired. This was the question. I want to ask you what David's bladder explodes. Okay. You guys are big fans in general, your fans of things like stuff, not stepping on toes of things that you're taking meetings on actually conversation about will it into the universe. Something that you may know progress on is there like a dream thing. I will say, especially if it's a thing where you're like, no one's ever gonna make a movie of that. Where you guys have talked about like, wouldn't it be cool to adapt? This thing that we love that probably isn't a market for. It's a great question. What's your like blank? Check product. Do you look people predicting big box office weekend? You might be getting those calls. You might be the blank check guys by the time. This episode comes out where people are saying, what do you got what your to us the one that always comes to mind? I'd like to adapt transmitter palton. Oh, yeah. A culture. That's that's that's the one. It's the perfect thing. Which like you need a big budget in yet not going to be a family movie. Right. It's funny. It's we're in specific there's a cat two headed cat. That's cigarettes. Every you know that that's one where I I read it and get inspired. I've read it, you know, many times over the years and that that for me would be a dream project. I don't know who controls the rights. I don't know already scripted exists. I don't know if he's editors show, but that is one where I look at it, a crack I'd love Krakatau. Do you have an answer boundary? I've always wanted to do a seven samurai magnificent seven with all of the serial characters. After crunch. Can from the fruit loops all of them. So it's like the magnificent eighty four Doni. Yeah. You know, they gotta put the team together some people. No. Yeah. We'll get a villain who's like the most villainous serial character count chocula the cop from cookie crisp rabbit trees. Yes. But he's kind of good. He's your rogue. If you're indeed kids who are trying to steal lucky charms. Maybe they're the villains. Right. I try to think of the cartesian. Could have like Don crazy at sea commander. There is a cut to crunch villain to is there. There is there's like a red and like black pirates. Sure to captain crunch is like blue captain needs. It. I don't know whatever. Yeah. Anyway, anyway list. Yeah. Now's your chance. Hot properties night. Eggs. Also have helpless part of package not anymore. It's not available. Okay. It's off the table. Okay. It's off the table. It's off the table. Thank you for listening. Please remember rate review. Subscribe, thanks to in for good for social media lame coming for theme. Song job on rounds for artwork to blink dot com for some real nerdy shit. Go to t public for some real nerdy shirts to pitcher on a blend. Check on his features where we're going through all the marvel movies. And as always the Songkhla hedgehog, what's really wish?

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