WKPWP - Interview Classic - Ex-WWE Creative John Piermarini: (1-31-19) Will Lesnar return to UFC, Batista's drawing power overrated (3-3-19)


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We were talking about Batista's return is his drawing power overrated five years ago. It was a different was the same question. But with a different set of criteria because certainly day Batiste is gone on to do big things and increase his name value but five years ago. What did we think also Daniel brains future and his fan support? Our take on the Siyam punk WWE departure, which was fresh in the news five years ago. And we look. The still in progress wrestlemainia thirty lineup and more. This was a fascinating conversation with John Marini five years ago and for the first time ever for free. You can hear the VIP after show that followed the initial interview with John Piermarini. This originally aired live on the POW torch live cast on January thirty first two thousand fourteen so little over five years in one month later, we presented to you here as an interview classic here on the Wade Keller. Pro wrestling podcast feet. Don't forget after Ron smackdown. This week. I'll be by on the way, Keller progressing Poche. Oh, that's our red logo show with Ron smackdown. Poche and also this weekend on the red feed. We have the five years ago conversation that I had with Jason Powell as the rapport show for five years ago this week. So check that out if you haven't yet hit refresh or subscribe, if you haven't yet just search Wade Keller and click on the red logo do subscribe to the Wade Keller progressing Poche. Oh, so here we go. This is a long one and a good one. Very fascinating. I think to look back and what was going on five years ago with some of the same people who are in the news today. Nearly one hundred fifty minutes of conversation with John coming up right now. Welcome to the T W torch live past I am wait teller editor and publisher of the pro wrestling torch newsletter than nineteen eighty seven also W torch dot com, a website updated daily with new commentary TV reports baby result since nineteen ninety nine. Also, the POW torch after w. In your iphone or Android bone at the door and download our free app. And also host of this very shown. Cast. We are on five days a week and sometimes six on pay per view weeks. And we're on Monday through Friday. I host usually on Tuesdays and Fridays. Thanks to Bruce Mitchell for filling in for me on Tuesday while I was getting over some flu symptoms early in the week. Bruce, and Jason did a great job covering a just an amazing news news period coming out of the Royal rumble in little did. They know when they did that show that the bigger story of the week. The biggest story of the week had yet to break. And that is the departure of the punk from WWE on Fridays. We have special guests, and that's why we call it interview Friday, and we've had a great run of guests in recent weeks. Bob, Holly, hardcore Holly was on last week talking about the ten year anniversary of his match with Brock listener at the Royal rumble, his strong opinions on the treatment of Daniel, Bryan. And answering your questions he is one of our favorite guests, and he was put on a really good show, or it's really good interview last Friday, and we hope that you will. Check that out if you haven't yet at w torch live cast dot com in recent weeks. We had Jake the snake Roberts on just five days after his surprise return to raw. And that was a remarkable interview worth going out of your way to listen to also AJ styles. One of his very first interviews and the longest eastbound yet going in depth on his reasons for leaving TNA his future while he's not a WWE and the state of TNA and much more interview that everybody agrees turned out way better than anyone expected and not that people had low expectations. But it was just one of those interviews where I think everybody listening and participating thought it went really, well, so that is worth going out of your way to listen to diamond Dallas page was also on a few weeks ago right around the turn of the new year talking about New Year's resolutions. And also the Jake Roberts and Scott hall as a major major thing in Dallas pages. Previous twelve to fifteen months is getting their lives on track. So we've had a lot of great guests. But today we. We have X WWE creative team member two thousand nine and two thousand ten John Piermarini as my guest on today's show. The time could not be better. He's somebody who has worked with the punk at around seeing punk during punks rights to main events, and the timing is great to have him on just five days removed. Or is it six snuff? I five days removed from the Royal rumble and just days after the major news about CNN punk. So here's a great gift have on. And we're going to be taking your phone calls to the phone number. If you want to get in line on the phone banks is six four six seven two one nine eight two eight that is six four six seven two one nine eight two eight John. Thank you for joining us today. I joked with you before he won in the air, you know, too bad. We don't have anything to talk about. I don't even know where to begin. But welcome back to the show. Thanks, man. It's it's always fun being on here with you. Excellent. And we appreciate your time and your insights. I'm Jay Farner, CEO of Quicken Loans. America's premier home purchase lender. We've created a new way to protect you from unpredictable interest rates are exclusive rate shield approval. I we lack your interest rate for up to ninety days. Then if rates go up your rate stays locked. But if rates go down your rate drops either way you win. Call us today at eight hundred quicken or go to rocketmortgage dot com, racial approval. Only valid on certain thirty year fixed rate loans. Call for cost information and conditions. Equal housing lender. Licensed in all fifty states, and I'm last number thirty thirty additional conditions or exclusions may apply. I'm Jay Farner, CEO of Quicken Loans, America's premier home purchase lender. We've created a new way to protect you from unpredictable interest rates are exclusive rate shield approval. I we lock your interest rate for up to ninety days. Then if rates go up your rate stays locked. But if rates go down your rate drops either way you win. Call us today at eight hundred quicken or go to rocketmortgage dot com, racial approval. Only valid on certain thirty year fixed rate loans, all for cost information and conditions. Equal housing lender. Licensed in all fifty states number thirty thirty additional conditions or exclusions may apply. John. Punk news. I want to start with your impression of it. I haven't talked to you about it yet. When you heard that's the punk left WWE. Then he told Vincent man on Monday night before Ross, I'm going home. What what was your first thought? What was your interpretation of of that information as it started to spread? I don't think anyone, you know. I mean that listens to your show. I mean, I'm sure there was people inside WWE who probably even actually focusing. We've I don't think anybody was apprised to hear that. I think people were more surprised that it came to that. And how it went down. But you know in listening to to your shows or in reading the internet. I don't think I don't think the impression was really given by punk that that he was happy there, and knowing his attitude something like this is probably bound to happen, especially you know, I think anybody can relate to that. When you're burned out at work or or in a relationship, or whatever it may be. Be there. There could be that one thing that just set you off. And you know, I don't think punk is really the type of person that takes his feelings and sits with them for a day or two. And then next the best rational decision. I think you know, he says what's on his mind when he feels it. And I think that's what he felt that the time. And I wouldn't even say that he's necessarily completely gone not saying that that he won't be. But you know, people that make such rash. Decisions tend to sometimes have a couple of days to cool off and come back in repeat sitter. You could also have WWE going back to them and make an emigrate offer. They feel he's that important to wrestlemainia or just business in general and kind of saying all right? Listen, smooth this over let's get on a roll. And again, or why don't you take the next three weeks off and come back the day after mania, or, you know, we'll promote you intil mania and turned into a story, you know? So again to answer your question, not surprise. But we'll. See what happens with I've been talking all week every day since this news broke on Tuesday. The the Wade Keller hotline for people who don't know. I do there's a VIP side if he w torch for ninety nine dollars year. Ten bucks a month? We give a ton of more insider info and tons of analysis. And then that includes the weekly pro wrestling torch newsletter which was the original reason was which was the original foundation of the person torch business back in the late eighties. And it's still around today, and we still mail the thousands of people all over the world every week, and but the PDF copy online every week for VIP members full information on that said PW torch dot com slash kgo V I P. If you want to tell subscribing part of that is the daily Keller hotline and every single day for going on on a four or five years without even taking one day off. I always cover the news answering your questions review, raw and this week. It's been a single subject like ninety eight percent has been about Siham punk. And I've been talking about everything that I've been hearing from people, I know who. Punk and people who know people who know punk, and what w saying about it what people off record or saying about what his friends are saying and trying to nail down the reason for it. I know John you're familiar with some of what I've been reporting on the Keller hotline this week from what you've heard me talk about from what you've heard being somewhat connected. Still, obviously, even though you're not in the WWE headquarters. What what's your interpretation of what's your best? Guess I'll frame it that way. What the primary reason that Siham punk is gone. And by the way, for those who aren't visiting POW torch today, the there's some additional news items just coming in all the time and one of them is he's been pulled from fan access and people who L tickets for it had been informed. Officially today. He's been removed and replaced on his day by RIC flair. He also has been officially removed from the Madison Square Garden lineup and that lineup has been shuffled. So in this weekend he was replaced by shame. So he is he is gone from between now and wrestlemainia at least. From everything so John based on everything floating around there. What's your what's your thought? What do you think was the final straw? Or if not the final straw, the primary reason that he is he's gone for now. Hey. You again, I can only speculate. But my my guess would be that. I don't think that he meant for it to go this far. I think that whatever the situation was that, you know, in hearing your your hotline and getting this information in knowing that, you know, that he had an argument with talent relations, and they met with been I think, you know, it was punked being punk going in there. And you know, whether it was trying to get his way or whether it was threatening them or however, did it whatever the argument was about. I think it just kind of it was punk again kind of previous. You know answer is being rationed and saying what was on his mind time. Look I'll walk out of here right now, if this doesn't change and maybe like a you were saying to that. There was something where there was a rumor of a concussion during the rural. Mbo, you know, maybe they were telling him. Hey, we're not gonna clear you, and you know, maybe punk feels you know, already burnt out. Why am I coming all the way here to not work? And maybe the threat was made. And maybe been said, hey, you gotta do what you gotta do. So at that point. It's a standoff, what are you gonna do in punk probably strongly enough to walk out. I just think that, you know, in his interview with Ariel Hawaii thing, you know, he's not much of a fan of pro wrestling at the moment being burnt out from being on the road for as long as it. He's an on even prior to WWE. I just think he feels like look if I'm gonna do this. I I wanna do the way I wanna do it. And I'm not just going to go and go through the motions like he probably has an entire career WWE, you know, where he was given a lot of of stories that maybe he didn't want to partake in her that he wanted to be higher on the card and now he has. Is he's in a position where he can. He can I don't wanna think demanded, but should be in that why. And so maybe he felt like look if I'm not gonna headline wrestlemainia if I'm over here, but the my ass for the last X amount of years, and you know, you're going to bring in Batista and Brock and part-time guys not saying that the teachers part time. So I think he's back fulltime. But and I know not even saying that he has a beef with the Teesta. But I think he feels look I'm busting my ass everyday on putting my body on the line. I deserve better than what you're having me do. So I want that. Or I'll go home, you know, when you're in a position where he could probably survive the rest of his life on the Bank account that he has. I applaud them for doing that, you know, because again, he could go out there tomorrow night and break his neck, and or he could go out there tomorrow night and get an injury that affects them the rest of his life. And that's not worth it to him. He's not fulfilling what he wants out of the business. So you know, what I wished that more people were put in that position to be able to do that. Maybe not so good for Vince. But I think a lot of things would be different. If people didn't feel like this is probably the wrong word, but a slave to WWE knowing I can't leave here. I'm not financially stable. Maybe I don't have a background in anything else to go. Do anything else? I don't wanna go to CNN because they're not gonna pay me or they may not be around that much longer. My other option is go to Japan. But I don't wanna go to Japan, I got family here. So I don't know my guess is just that he's he's doing this for self at this point. And if he's not getting what he wants out of it figures. I'm just gonna go home. Yeah. It's it's funny. You say what you just said about, you know, more rest, it'd be nice more. I had this kind of leverage because I think it would create a more fair give and take between management and wrestlers. So I think a lot of I just recorded the Keller hotline for today right before going on there with you, and I was answering reader questions about this in-depth and one of the few members asked, you know, does see them does this show that the punk is worthy of a top spot when he's taken his ball and going home, and I just I mean, I very strongly feel and when it all my reasons on the hotline why I don't have I don't blame pump for this at all. And I think that yes is a fan. You're disappointed. You want him to be there? But when it comes to the power dynamic between management than wrestlers what Stephanie McMahon and triple h did the big show. This fall was symbolic of how management I think in tell me if you tell me if you think if you were thinking the same thing watching it I watched that going. This is a a little bit of an exaggeration in terms of how mean they are in how. Unfiltered, they are. But this is kind of how they want wrestlers to feel like you should be happier. Earning six figures with us. You have no other job options that pay near this. You will do what we tell you. And you will not complain because we are big corporation where the McMahon family, we built this empire, and its you should just feel privileged to be here. Doing what we tell you to do for as long as we wanna keep you around. Yeah. I agree. And you know, what to answer that question that was sent to you while I agree with your answer. I think in a more fair way to answer that to get the answer that he wants is that I think that when it comes to the office. I think that the answer is. Yes, it verifies. Why he doesn't deserve a top spot? Because what if we give them the pop spot, but he doesn't have the top spot. He wants for example, Bret Hart being world champion and going into survivor series. Sean. Michaels. And they had they literally had to screw him out of that title because they put them in a position where he was in control, and they had to do what they had to do to because he wasn't you know, invented is. And maybe it is the right way to think about it. But he wasn't. He wasn't doing. I guess this'll be funny to say, but what's best for business at the time. He wasn't. He was just making about Bret Hart as opposed to the wrestling industry. Whoever was right or wrong in that who knows. But hey, we could put pumpkin the situation we could put the title on them. We could put him against the rocket at wrestlemainia thirty one. And then we could tell me dropping the title of the rock, and maybe he won't show up. You know, maybe he feels like Rocco's them one now. So, you know, I don't I don't blame either side. And like, I know that one of the other subjects we're gonna talk about Daniel, Bryan. And I and I feel the same way which I think might ruffle some feathers with with people listening in that the way that he's being pushed I can see both sides of the equation. I won't jump to that. But yeah, I can I can see I could see WWE's aspect in in thinking. Why would we give this guy top spot? Now. He's literally walked out. I'm Jay Farner, CEO of Quicken Loans, America's premier home purchase lender. We've created a new way to protect you from unpredictable interest rates are exclusive rate shield approval. I we lock your interest rate for up to ninety days. Then if rates go up your rate stays locked. But if rates go down your rate drops either way you win. Call us today at eight hundred quicken or go to rocketmortgage dot com, racial approval. Only valid on certain thirty year fixed rate loans. Call for cost information and conditions. Equal housing lender. Licensed in all fifty states MLS number thirty thirty additional conditions or exclusions may apply. I'm Jay Farner, CEO of Quicken Loans, America's premier home purchase lender. We've created a new way to protect you from unpredictable interest rates are exclusive rate shield approval. I we lock your interest rate for up to ninety days. Then if rates go up your rate stays locked. But if rates go. Down your rate drops either way you win. Call us today at eight hundred quicken or go to rocketmortgage dot com, racial approval. Only valid on certain thirty year fixed rate loans, offer cost information and conditions. Equal housing lender. Licensed in all fifty states MLS number thirty thirty additional conditions or exclusions may apply. And I want to be clear when I say that I don't I don't blame. PM punk for what he did on Monday part of that is because he didn't choose to. He didn't do a power play the day of wrestlemainia or two weeks before wrestlemainia he like, whatever triggered it. And and we have an in. We're reporting certain specific things on the side of things. And I I'm not for variety resign not gonna get into right here. Because it opens up a whole other whole other subject matter. But if there's triggers punk did if punks fat and said, you know, what if I walk out now it's the day after the rumble. I fulfilled my last major obligation which was being in the rumble, and they have plenty of time to write me out of whatever they were thinking for chamber and wrestlemainia 'cause nothing's been announced and the worst case scenarios fan access and somehow show dates and they're changing those all the time. Anyway, he didn't pull some sort of power play at the most strategic time. He wasn't trying to screw with the fans or screw with management or wait until the worst possible time to do it. He. I know would pump kept locked out if whatever the trigger was happened two days before mania. I don't think he would. I think punk is a stand up enough guy. He would've toughed it out for two more days or two more weeks. But so I kinda come from that perspective. But I do think to show there's some balance here with punk. 'cause there certainly is. I don't think punk is always right about stuff. And I think there is a level of perfectionism that heals himself to in a in an ego that has driven him to be as good and successful as he is that gets in the way of him him, his perspective. Sometimes in that. There's not a wrestler on this planet who would look at a wrestler. Siham punk any wrestler having a year where he got to wrestle the rock on pay per view, the undertaker at wrestlemania and Brock listener in a long feud of Paul Heyman as the three major components of his year and complain in punk is phone reasons to complain about each of them. So part of that is punk is just miserable. He's unhappy. As Jim Ross said he doesn't have the in life right now. And so if you're not enjoying things even when the greatest things start happening to you, you don't enjoy them the way that you should. And I've all kinds of the reasons that I'm that I'm on punk side when it comes to what he did on Monday that I get into in the Keller hotline, but there's a lot of things that I think punk has been unfair to management about about how he's been treated in two thousand thirteen. And so that's why I'm able to talk about this for thirty minutes a day every day this week for I came over to there's still many components to this. It's it's a it's a fascinating story. John plugs are over and it is time for phone calls. Get in line on the phone Bank. Six four six seven two one nine eight two eight. I'm Wade Keller. And we're going first to the VIP express line with area code five six one I believe that this is Matt from North Carolina met, welcome to the show. Hey, guys it going. I doing very good. Thanks for calling Matt thanks for VIP membership. Absolutely than a VIP for a long time. Now, just I dunno. I think w a dangerous place right now with fans with going into wrestlemainia and the network launch and everything, and I don't know just reading all over the news this week. I think wrestlemainia plays out the way it's expected at this point was no Siham palm contain O'Brien despite AAA JR. And he's fighting a working, I think that wrestlemainia is gonna be a train wreck this year. And I think that as need to cut these storylines taunting fans and not delivering like the fans voted Daniel, Brian the superstar of the year and the like, obviously, the reason crapping all over the product right now and taking it over they're not happy. And it just seems to me like they're limping into wrestlemainia this year when they should be running crawling in the network launch with fan morale about the product. And I just kind of feel the only way for them to get out of this point is Dan Bryan winning that title of either limitation chamber or wrestlemainia in giving the fans what they want any. Other than that there just in for trouble. So that's all I have to say, I just want to get your kind of thoughts on that. Great. Thanks, matt. Yeah. John your thoughts on on wrestlemainia thirty. 'cause we we're not just gonna talk about pump today. I'm sure we'll talk more about punk. There's a lot more to say about him, but wrestlemainia thirty in the lineup and the reaction, and it feels like such a distant memory the crowd taking over the Royal rumble on Sunday. It was the headline of the pro wrestling torch this week that the exact headline was crowd rejects much of row. Royal rumble. Batista booed or seen heckled. Brian cheered, y what what are your thoughts as you watch this, John, and what are your thoughts on us manage AAA are are handling this kind of crowd reaction? And and is it deserved. And how did they manage it? I wasn't surprised to see because I think we were selling. We were seeing glimpses of it heading into Royal rebel. I, you know, they they weren't really necessarily hijacking a whole show, but they were definitely letting. WWE know who they wanted and what they wanted when there are certain segments. And I don't know the way WWE is looking at it. Now, my my guess is that you know, they're going to turn it into a storyline which I get they already have. But to to play off of it because I I honestly don't think the right thing is to just immediately. Just give Daniel Bryan title. Okay. Okay. You got what you wanted just to go back to normal because I think that what the fans want to see is is Brian win the title. And I think that they should put it on. But I think that they should now take you on a journey to get there. I do firmly believe just because wrestlemanias that she'll moment in time in the wrestling industry and wrestlemainia thirty will be one of those moments that I feel like if. If Brian's going to even next guy, and I don't necessarily think WWE thinks that he is. And maybe they feel like look we'll put them in this position. Because this is what people want, but will soon see that the fans were wrong. So we're still building Roman reigns. We're still building biggie linked, and we still got our guys, but let's kind of transition into this Daniel Bryan thing, and then we'll go we'll go from there. But with that being said, I personally would if you wanted to get the title on Brian. I would not do it at elimination chamber by also wouldn't do after wrestlemainia. If this wasn't wrestlemainia, I would say, they should prolong the story while still giving you hope it every at every beat of the story to to kind of say, hey, he's he's almost there. He's almost there were getting there just keep you know, coming along and. That's how you get people to spend their money. Okay. Is it going to be without screwing him over like they were doing the in the last week review, but taking them on this ride to eventually put the tight on Bryant. But because it's wrestlemainia thirty. I do think they should put the title on at wrestlemainia thirty. But I feel like you're gonna miss out on such a big moment if he goes into wrestlemainia thirty defending it. So in thinking off the top of my head how you could get him in the main event of thirty. I don't think that you do I think that you you keep it the way it is. I think you have Brian and the elimination chamber. I think you had to come down to Bryan and Orton, and I think same story that's being told you have him screwed out of the title. And then the next night on raw, obviously, you're going to have the fans during against you. But you have you have triple h come out yet. Daniel Bryan, come out and essentially Daniel Bryan says look there's only one way to figure this all out. I never win the title. I might as well just walk out the door. You know, like like somebody else just did. But I I have a way to solve this. And he basically says look me, and you wrestlemainia here's the deal. If I beat you. I get a title shot anytime I want, and you know, you know, interfere if there's interference whatever it may be I win the title d q. If the referee kicked me, if the whatever it may be however, you wanna you know, portray it I'm on walking out WWE champion now if you beat me triple h I will gladly I don't wanna say walk away. But I will silence. You know, my followers. I will tell them. Hey, don't don't don't chant. Yes. I don't deserve it, whatever it may be. And you know that gives triple h his reason for wanting to do it. And they all right. Let's go into going to wrestlemainia you have them. Russell yet. Daniel Bryan beat them. I think you then go into the main event, and this part would be tricky because I wouldn't wanna turn Randy Orton baby face. But maybe you have something where AAA actually helps Batista win the title the teeth says now the heel and one of the heels that would end up chasing Brian to kind of make Batista happy because I'm sure when he came back there were certain things he was promised, and you can. Still give him that. And so you have the Teesta win. He's now a heels Dannon there with triple h all of a sudden Daniel, Bryan music. It's he comes down. I'm not talking like money in the Bank rundown. You just come down. He grabs a Mike. And he goes, this is your moment. Wrestlemainia thirty. It's the biggest show in WWE history. You know, WWF say more eyeballs are watching this moment right now than ever before the WWE you've screwed me for a year. I'm screwing you I want Batista right now. And and they can't say no, this isn't like yokozuna, say, sure. Yeah. I'll give you a give Tyler he can't say, no, you know, and it's WW wants to go the whole legal route. Or however, they want to explain it. Here we go we have a match, and you actually have a competitive match and Daniel Bryan goes over and you end wrestlemainia thirty with seventy thousand people chanting. Yes. And Daniel Bryan, holding the title, and I think. Now, you have your wrestlemainia moment. And Daniel Bryan does become the next big star. You always have that moment to go back to. And I know that people are thinking, well, maybe he'll win in hometown. The next month at extreme rules. I just I don't think that there's a moment there. I think you're giving the fans what they want. But I think you need to have a moment here with fine because the fans have been waiting so long, and I feel like it has to be done on a special occasion, not just because they're in their hometown on a random pay per view, which and I feel like extreme ruled is always just kinda like wrestlemainia repeat. Anyway, I know. Yeah. When it was backlash it made sense. Because it's like the backlash from what happened at wrestlemainia. You know, it seemed like they were going to say wrestlemanias are big matches. And it's the first time you saw some of these feuds because they didn't want to feel like blow us I wanted to seem like actually didn't see at your arena, but then with six weeks or eight weeks or three months in some cases of hype they wanted to. Get more out of it than just one match. So it backlash actually kind of became the sequel wrestlemainia, which had positives and negatives to it. It's a little bit with that now. But, but it's still that element is there, and yeah, I'm Jay Farner, CEO of Quicken Loans, America's premier home purchase lender. We've created a new way to protect you from unpredictable interest rates are exclusive rate shield approval. I we lock your interest rate for up to ninety days. Then if rates go up your rate stays locked. But if rates go down your rate drops either way you win. Call us today at eight hundred quicken or go to rocketmortgage dot com, racial approval. Only valid on certain thirty year fixed rate loans. Call for cost information and conditions. Equal housing lender. Licensed in all fifty states and MLS number thirty thirty additional conditions or exclusions may apply. I'm Jay Farner, CEO of Quicken Loans, America's premier home purchase lender. We've created a new way to protect you from unpredictable interest rates are exclusive rate shield approval. I we lock your interest rate for up to ninety days. Then if rates go up your rate stays locked. But if rates go down your rate drops either way. You win. Call us today at eight hundred quicken or go to rocketmortgage dot com, racial approval. Only valid on certain thirty year fixed rate loans. Call for cost information and conditions. Equal housing lender. Licensed in all fifty states NMLS number thirty thirty additional conditions or exclusions apply. That's very good detailed scenario, how some try to manage this situation and we've been reporting this week for VIP members. But what's going on within man? And the creative department this week had some details on how Batista's reacting to all of this. There are so many fascinating moving parts that it's just it's been amazing. Newsweek, John, and I is there any time when you were in WWE that you remember things being was there an incident that jumped out to you where you could imagine that level of kind of madness or second guessing, or I don't even know how to describe what's going on this week with everything going on from the Royal mobile crowd reaction to punk the next day. Yeah. Nothing nothing. This magnitude. I think really. May maybe with you know, back and forth between creative invents or you know, maybe what the fans want compared to what we were putting out there. You know? I think at the time that was win the real hot topic was I think it's time to turn John CENA's. So we had that internally. I think that we were also kind of looking for you know, what can we do to kind of get to that next? Boom. I mean, everyone has their own ideas. And I think also probably in the way that we were booking nexus. There were so many different people who wanted it done a different way Mon which I think ultimately led to the disaster that it ended up being, you know, obviously starting at I believe it was summer slam. Right. Where it was the five or six on six or five on five or eight. I can't remember how many people read it. But we did the the match it was the elimination match. And then Gina gets on the Ford somehow beats two guys after that. It just isn't. Like that nothing with anybody walking out of the company. I know that when I was there it was right around that we knew we were losing of Shawn Michaels. Triple h wasn't going to be a full-time guy. Undertaker was always, okay. Is he going to be ready for mania? And we were losing the Teesta. It was at the end of the teachers run. And so we it was it wasn't Reese grambling an instant going. Oh, but he's just walked out of the company and we've got in versus Johnson resume twenty six. What are we going to do? So this is this is this is the first I mean, I'm sure this has happened before you'd be a better person to answer that. But as far as, you know, being so in-depth in with the internet and being able to have such access to what goes on. This is this is really one of the first times there's been so much going on whether it's the direction of the company to a top guy walking out. Out to you know, new guys coming in. And and making demands because I think this is the first time that they've really started really focusing on making bringing in part time big name guys to to boost business when it's most important during wrestlemainia. I again, I was younger. So I didn't know I mean, I remember alternate warrior came back at wrestlemainia eight, you know, maybe that was similar instance. But I think this is the first for for a lot of things now. Not not to make another reference to be. But I'm going to cause I was putting up a part of what we do for fifty membership is put up our ten years ago hotlines, and we just put up yesterday the Royal rumble roundtable from ten years ago. We're Bruce Mitchell, and I discussed that event in depth and a couple of weeks before that I put up a killer hotline that I had recorded for VIP reposted. It had been off the site for about eight years, and in that I talked about how been sick man said we don't want wrestlemainia twenty to be an old timer show. We don't want it to be. This was my sore thing. Telling me, not being quoted publicly that Vince was telling people I created we wouldn't when we come up with this wrestlemania twenty line of we don't want that's showed and with looking backwards. We want Russia meeting twenty to show that was looking forward because there's a lot of pressure. Oh, do we have HOGAN on the show? Do we make steep? Do. We do some of those Steve Austin. How do we make this? You know, do we bring back Wendi Richter Roddy piper? And Mr. T, all this stuff you hearing. Now, you know that it's got to be special because it's twenty or thirty and his attitude was no no we want it to be about about looking. Forward. And and it does kinda very sometimes it's like man has that attitude, and sometimes the ideas we have to get to a million buys. You know, we just we have to do it. We have to do to get two million bucks. And they have sort of lost faith that they've built up talent, especially with twelve or thirteen or fourteen pay per view see year that they can make wrestlemainia special enough without those outside names. But it's a thing time. Anyway, let let me go to some other callers here. We'll keep rolling through the show if you joined us live we are on this. We are on the blog talk radio network live Monday through Friday Mondays the hour before raw tune in live and listen to us at PW torch live cast dot com and Tuesday Wednesday Thursday and Friday every single day without exception since we started the show over four years ago. We are on thanksgiving Christmas new years, everything we are on the air by for you at five thirty eastern Tuesday through Friday, our Royal rumble wrap up show also with available in the archives. If you want to go back if you can't join us live, go to the archives that torchlight casts dot com. You can hear the free shows there. And as always if you're a VIP member you have even easier. Quicker access to all our shows, including the VIP access show broken down by show category on the P website. Let's go now to another VP member who is on hold. And that is Mike M from Eric owed five one eight Mike, Los know where you're from. And what you wanna talk to John and me about today. Hey, wait, how you doing? This is Mike from Albany, New York, proud six-year porch VIP member. Thank you my business. No, absolutely. And I say this. I think I mentioned this an Email. So you'll Wayne I can't believe over the six years like the content has like tripled or quadrupled. And I'm surprised I'm still only paying ten dollars a month. I'm surprised too. I picked you out the church planting you didn't get that. Not really known. Okay. Well, I'm an insurance agent. So I'm trying to talk you into the dark side here. I guess. John. I heard most of your audio over the years with four ch and nice to actually talk to you in person man do wanted to. Yeah. Absolutely. I just wanted to ask you based on your experience working backstage with punk. We've heard a lot that you know, he really keeps to himself when he just sorta, you know goes to his tour bus after his promos and stuff would it. Is it accurate to say that he's really not a locker room leader, you know, based on your experience with them. When I was there punk was more of a mid card guy that some of us wanted to elevate to a top spot. So he, and there was still guys like, Sean and hunter where I think it would have been stepping on their toes if he took a locker room leadership position, and I I can't speak for for the wrestler. So, you know, maybe I'm wrong. I. I don't think that that he was but I also wasn't privy to to tell him meeting. So if they kinda all got together, and and talked I don't know if punk was a guy that was standing up. I know that punk was vocal in in the way that he felt so I would assume that that he was, but you know, also too when I was there he didn't have a bus. So he was in the locker room. I don't ever, you know, recall thinking than it keeps to himself. I think it was more. You know, he had the guys that that he talked to or hung out with their and we were doing the straight edge societal. So he was mostly with with that group of guys and girl majority of the show. So, you know, it's not something that pops up in my head remembering a man seeing funky such a loner. He he had the same demeanor that I see now. But I don't recall him being, you know, someone that I remember being a locker room leader war someone that just kinda was off on his own and you had to go search for them or refined. But there were guys like that most of the guys that have the buses that that's where you find. I always remember the Orton wasn't a guy that was that was always on his bus. He was a guy that was always in the locker room, very personable, but majority other guys I I had a number of big show was the guy you'd have to go to his bus to find him. Can't remember who had buses back then? But to bring us a real Rahab on yet rate and not have one yet. And he was very personal guy. He was friendly with everybody all the boys all the people working there. Yes. So no, I don't remember again. I can't say that punk was not a lot of room. I don't wanna take that away from him. If he was I just don't. Call perceiving him that way at the time. And I also and again here too, you know, personalities tend to get along or not get along with people that have the same retirement personality than them in. And I feel like me Hong. He he's he's an extreme. But a lot of things I agree with with punk or saw his side. And I think that's you know, why you get along with certain people where they he could. He could see I could see that. We saw things the same way felt the same way about certain things. And so we get along. So you know, you could have someone a perfect example of I've heard guys come on the show and say as so much as they hated Stephanie or didn't like her didn't get along with her. I got along with her great now for whatever reason why we did. I don't know. But I had no problems with her. We got along same with punk. So there could be someone else who could sit there and be like, man, he he's a loner. He was he was an asshole that every time. I tried to talk to him. He blew me off. You know, I remember to wait. I think I was on your show shortly after the punk ABD. And a lot of people were asking who were you one of the guys where he would. You know, he'd look at your promo tear it up and throw it in your face. And while I didn't never seen that happen. He was more of the guy where I would give them the promo he'd go. Okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna take what you want me to say. Let me get kinda making mine help bring it back to you. You'd walk in the writer's room, John. Here you go. Hey, cool. I'm gonna go get it approved. We're good. So everything's different. It's a tough. It's a tough question to answer to give you a one hundred percent, you know, certainty that yes, he was or wasn't certain way. But with my experience with that's that's the way I perceived him. I'm Jay Farner, CEO of Quicken Loans, America's premier home purchase lender. We've created a new way to protect you from unpredictable interest rates are exclusive rate shield approval. I we lock your interest rate for up to ninety days. Then if rates go up your rate stays locked. But if rates go down your rate drops either way you win. Call us today at eight hundred quicken or go to rocketmortgage dot com, racial approval. Only valid on certain thirty year fixed rate loans Colfer. Information and conditions. Equal housing lender. Licensed in all fifty states and MLS number thirty thirty additional conditions or exclusions may apply. I'm Jay Farner, CEO of Quicken Loans, America's premier home purchase lender. We've created a new way to protect you from unpredictable interest rates are exclusive rate shield approval. I we lock your interest rate for up to ninety days. Then if rates go up your rate stays locked. But if rates go down your rate drops either way you win. Call us today at eight hundred quicken or go to rocketmortgage dot com, racial approval. Only valid on certain thirty year fixed rate loans, all for cost information and conditions. Equal housing lender. Licensed in all fifty states animal last number thirty thirty additional conditions or exclusions may apply. What? Yeah. Good question. What? Yeah. John based on like, you know, your experience. If let's say, you know, what I don't know if there were any locker room leaders per se when you were there, what would someone adding up clout to really change the direction of the product or you know, make sure that the pay-per-view payout situation worked out for the wrestlers. 'cause I'm just I feel like punk didn't really get much out of it. If he was willing to walk out. You know, I'm scratching my head go, and I wish he would have put up more of a fight. But I don't know. I guess we don't really know. All the details. Hey, thanks, guys. Thanks like shit. To answer that question. You know? I it the first part of the question was what happened? You clout? I don't know anything as far as the business end of of getting paid in any aspect. So I can't answer that. But I can't tell you that. Yes. There were guys that could walk into Vince, his office and change in the direction of something. That was triple h I was shot Michael that was Chauncey. And that was undertaker. I'm not breaking any news by saying that it's just the usual suspects. As far as what was the second part of that way. I can't remember I don't remember either. I think that was what you said is what I thought he your let me get my cellar. Mike, the John cover your topic there. Yeah. Just you know, the other examples the pay per view payouts. Could someone else that stood up? Oh, yeah. But I mean is there is is that the rumor wise he walked out because of the Paker view payouts. The only person that I would think that, you know, John Tina walked in there and said, look, no one knows what we're getting paid. I don't know what I'm getting paid. We need to know. I think somebody like that could make Vince go. All right. We gotta figure this out. We gotta lock it down. And we've got to go talk to the talent. Or we have to address John Tina directly and get him his answer. And then we'll wait for the majority of the locker room to to get antsy. And then we'll go talk to them. I don't know how everything is broken down. I mean, you might have a guy who it wouldn't affect him one way or the other with pay per view buys with a with a with the network or whether it's just strictly the pay per views. So I think it's the guys are going to be affected more or the ones that care. But if you're scratching your head going, I don't see. Why he would walk out with? I think what you're asking with the money that he would be making. You know, there's certain people that that go into the business, and I don't think punk went in to be rich. And I think that once he found out that he was I think he was content. I don't think that if ten million dollars I need to get to twenty. I think he'd love to get to twenty. But he gets twenty the way he wants to do it. And then you have a guy, you know, I'm not saying this is him. But let's just use the name and say John CENA who goes I got fifty million dollars in the bay. I'm gonna stick around till I get hundred because that's why I'm here. So if you have someone who's disgruntled with with the process more so than what they're getting paid. They didn't care about getting paid. They don't care about going. I'm gonna make more money this year because of this. I don't care how much money I make. I got enough to Wade like you said he said in the interview, you know, go get a cabin in the woods and never be heard from again, you don't need a lot of money. To do that row. You know, if that's what his goal is to get to. He could do that today. I think he sticks around to. I think one of the things is he truly does wanna headline wrestlemainia being the very last match of wrestlemainia. And I think that's what was keeping him around. I think also too. He probably saw the prospects at the time of working with Brock and like that and that kept him baited. Iraq. So and now, I think he looks at it. And goes, I was I mean, he was working with the top guys weighed like you ran down earlier he had rock had brought yet Stena. I think he looked at it. And goes, I'm the guy now that every you know, everyone's gone, and you can't have -sarily do seen again. I'm in the next guy. Why wouldn't it be me? You know, because I think that they feel like they lean on sina so much even when sometimes it doesn't make sense to. Well, why aren't you go into me? And I think that I've busted my ass for you for so long, and you you're not paying me back with the same respect. And I think that that's enough for him to go. I'm out of here. Because if you're not going to give me the spot now win would you give me the spot? Let's go next to great insights out. Great answer to agree with that VIP member Eric from three five to Eric can from you nameless, nor you're from. And what do you got for Johnny today? Hi, this is Eric can afford. And he goes, no doing great. Thanks for calling. Eric thanks for your membership to like. It's kind of a quick question. Let's say that, you know, they can't talk pump into coming back on can't give them a new contractor, whatever. And it's Thanh Jack UN's out in July. Do you think that? Being hit on. He's always been a fan of wrestling and always loved to do it that we may end up seeing him. But you maybe do some base Arledge. There is not a done or maybe for some other Indies where you know, you can go into the perform have fun. But there's no real pressure to you know, they w grind. It's a great question. It's very logically asked, you know, punk well in terms of his background. I have a definitive answer on that. But John I'll throw to you first. I'm pretty definitive in in guessing that no that's not going to happen. Because I don't think that punk finds wrestling fun. I don't you know, he he did that already. I think he said out to go. Here's everything I've accomplished. Here's what I haven't. These are my goals, if I'm not going to be given the chance to reach them I'm done, and I don't think our wager TNA or whatever else is out there for Filton now. Yeah. Maybe he truly thinks wrestling is a hobby. And he goes, you know, what I just want to go out there, and I wanna put on matches because my buddy is this guy, or you know, I wanna work with Samoa Joe on television. We don't know. But my guess is that that's not going to be important enough to because I truly feel like it. If those things were he wouldn't have left the company, so I would be definitive in saying, it's not going to happen. But we don't know him. And we don't know what. What sort of issue in six months or two years? He might sit there and go, you know, what I just wanna get marine. I just wanna put on a match. I don't wanna deal with any politics. I'm gonna go our way. And just have you know, farewell tour of just me wrestling great matches. You know, maybe that will happen. But I don't I don't necessarily see it. I think that would be in punked mine rea- complicating things that he's already done. I could waste time. And repeat what you said, John? But I'm with you. I mean to to to the comment, I everything I would I'm tempted to repeat it. But yeah, exactly it might have. I don't think it's going to happen. I don't think it's the first is for sure of a thing if some people think 'cause they see him as that loyal indie guy who who you know, they bonded with. And of course, he's gonna wanna go out his way. I, but there's just something that that about his personality, and you set John I don't know that he wants to go back to where he's been. I think he's been there. He's done that he's happy with it. He climbed the ladder. And I don't think that. He wants to that. I don't think the things that had a certain charm, and that were fun. You know? I mean, I I went to Indy shows and saw him in the in the nineties, we need come to the Saint Paul armory. Ed Hellier was promoting those shows and Colt Cabana and Austin Aries. I mean, it was a really deep roster of guys who went on to national acclaim. And and that was fun for him to drive from Chicago, Milwaukee, Minneapolis and all that. It's just I I don't know that he'll ever have that bug again. I think he wants to move to the next thing. And I just think you'll be different. And then I talked about that this week on VIP on the Keller hotline. And yeah, I again, I'm starting to what you said. I disagree. Yeah. My we can't rule it out John. I'm with you. But my my tendency is to think anybody who thinks it's a given is wrong. It's far from a given. And I think right now punk would say it's not going to happen. But that's six months or two years from now does he get that bug to go out his way and just make it fun? Not for the money. No politics, and it has to be for the right promoter with the right opponents. Yeah. And let me add something to. If there is something that I do seek punks doing while. I don't see him going into UFC. And I think a lot of him addressing that is just to kind of get people talking because they know that it will get a reaction. But I personally think that if he doesn't do that. And he does have an inch to do something. I can honestly see him coming out to California and training at the Gracie academy and going into Jiu jitsu tournaments and following that more. So than I see him going. You know, what I really feel like putting on my trunk again and going to our away. So I think that if if people are looking for what he would do to kind of say, I wanna have fun or where my heart set, I think it's more so on that side of things because it'd be something else going to accomplish, you know, and he can sit there and go I'm not a belt guy when when he was asked what what healthy hadn't suggest soup, but. I can tell you that anybody who does jitsu is adults guy. While it's fun to word. Trust me. There's a sense of accomplishment in what you're doing. It's great to be able to walk around. I can tell you that one of the greatest accomplishment of my life was getting a blue belt in jujitsu. And and to some people that might sound funny. But when you're in it, you want you want to you. I'm talking about a whole different subject who cared point is that's going if he was going to do something, you know, I was in Kratie for fifty to twenty years. And I know exactly what you mean about the bell to keep score tikey track. It's a marker. And it's something that you do. But you don't do it for the money, and you don't do it for fame. You do it. Because among your peers your peers are doing it too. And it's a way to show that you're dedicated what you're doing. And you're listening to your instructor. And you're set a goal in your -ccomplish it, and you know, what? And you would be able to relate to this way. When you go in for your class. Whatever the martial art is even if you go into learn basketball for the first day or pick up a baseball bat for the first day. It is extremely hard. And you second guess yourself and going I'm never going to figure this out. That's why a lot of people don't ever return insane in the wrestling industry. And then you get to the point where you figured it out and bad accomplishment. That's you fighting yourself and you overcoming that. And that's a great feeling. And I and I I can see why punk has that passion for it. And that's where I think that he would follow it. He did wanna pursue something. And who knows maybe he could get to the point where he could get into the UFC. And that would be something. He would say, hey, I did it. I didn't do it. Because I thought I was going to be the best. I get it because I wanted to try it. But my honestly don't think he's anywhere near that level to be able to do that. I'm Jay Farner, CEO of Quicken Loans, America's premier home purchase lender. We've created a new way to protect you from unpredictable interest rates are exclusive rate shield approval. I we lock your interest rate for up to ninety days. Then if rates go up your rate stays locked. But if rates go down your rate drops either way you win. Call us today at eight hundred quicken or go to rocketmortgage dot com, racial approval. Only valid on certain thirty year fixed rate loans. Call for cost information and conditions. Equal housing lender. Licensed in all fifty states NMLS number thirty thirty additional conditions or exclusions may apply. I'm Jay Farner, CEO of Quicken Loans, America's premier home purchase lender. We've created a new way to protect you from unpredictable interest rates are exclusive rate shield approval. I we lock your interest rate for up to ninety days. Then if rates go up your rate stays locked. But if rates go down your rate drops either way you win. Call us today at eight hundred quicken or go to rocketmortgage dot com, racial approval. Only valid on certain thirty year fixed rate loans, all for cost information and conditions. Equal housing lender. Licensed in all fifty states NMLS number thirty thirty additional conditions. Exclusions may apply. If people pop rock got in late and at age thirty one thirty two punks getting into really late to have. I mean, right. And the fact that punk is good at promos in pro wrestling. And the fact that punk is good at simulated creating simulated fights at that drop people in emotionally has zero to do with whether he's going to be good at MMA. And so yeah, any of that because punk is famous in the next WWE champion makes him no more likely to be good at at at UFC than some scrub who failed out of wrestling school. But because he didn't have the charisma or promo skills or a knack for wrestling and telling a story, so the idea that people think because Brooklyn New was famous in wrestling and it worked for him there. Just no connection a punk doesn't have that foundation that listener did isn't NCW champion. So. Do it for fun country. Yeah. Brock is one of the best wrestlers in the country at one point. And I who knows where he would be now, but Brock could probably hold his own against any wrestler in an amateur wrestling contest, just like certain in the w much like Jack swagger, I think you can put Jack swagger in the USC right now in wild do. I think that he would have to the top who knows? But I know that he wouldn't look like a fool because of that wrestling background and don't wrestling is such a great face to have getting into mixed martial arts that I if punk was at that level. I would say he learns to jitsu he learns to stand up and he uses his division one wrestling background. I think he stands a chance, but he's going against guys who live and breathe this stuff. And there's a new era now in the US in the sense that people start mixed martial arts. Not just learning digits phase mixed martial arts from the age of fourteen years old, and they're twenty five years old now fighting and punks going to go against those. Guys. I love punked to death. And I love to see him try. I just don't see Dana white. Doing that. Because they have said he doesn't want novelty fights he doesn't want. He didn't want. He didn't want to put, you know. I'm trying to think of an example of some. Oh, who was the rusher? I'm drawing the NFL rusher. Who did strikeforce? I'm he was a Viking in Dallas. Oh, we're so Walker. Thank you. I just looked drew blank on his name. Yeah. He didn't wanna use him even though Dr irate because he didn't want curiosity. Like he wanted to be a real sport and pump. You know, even though punk is is in good with UFC and has friends there. And and you know is on camera and interview and all that it's like they don't white unless they're desperate to in business aren't gonna do novelty fights. And they're definitely not Eric anything else for us. It's one quick questions kind of off topic into Friday when probably won't hear from me again. And I get a victim for somebody. Flip a coin. I haven't had time to pay attention. I'm kind of leaning towards Denver, John. How about you? Do they have the weather conditions yet? It's going to be nice. Oh, then Denver. Yeah. Yeah. How about your if if? Yeah. I'm a Bronco fan. Something we're on for. I I don't I don't feel real strongly their way. And I mean part of that is I've just been so immersed in covering wrestling. I just haven't been able to study your pay a lot of attention. But my my gut which means nothing, so please don't put a dollar on my opinion is Denver. All right. Thanks. Let's take some more calls here. How how long do you have because I want to share with you and hit some topics for VIP members. But the fifteen twenty more minutes or so. What time does what times of this show in? Well, we're at the one hour, Mark. So we can end at any time. But I wanna save time for VIP or so, but we have more people on hold. Yeah. I can give you till about like four forty five my time. And it's what time is it. Now, your time three thirty. Oh, great. So we got plenty of time. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Well, let's take some more calls than because I'm not in a hurry either. And we've got a lot of cool stuff to talk about. So let's let me make sure I don't have another VIP express person on hold. Oh, no. We do. So let's go to. Oh, no. We just went them. So let's go to the phone lines and go to three one four three one four. Thanks rolling so long, let us know your name and where you're from. From Saint Louis, Missouri Damian thanks for call it. How you doing? Good. What do you got your gun? Okay. I I mean, I would be question, of course, is about the whole situation. Even by the way, John. Great great. Okay. That last night so cold Steve Austin went on video hall show, you know, mostly to promote his podcast, and I gotta say on the side. On the you know on his pocket, it pretty much is the reason why I p member in at one dollars zero you d. All right off the crew. All right. Here's the thing. This whole. That you know, you just be one of the things happening either. Visit gonna go down as your little over Parke's. And if give him to try to come back before mania. He's probably just gonna come back to WWE whenever he's ready. So you agreed to best around that. And the second part of that question. Infinitive has. The company for his whole out of into anything about agreed where honesty matches and they. We demand gonna put you on hold because we got a terrible connection for you. I hope John euro they'll pick up on the first part of the question. I will say on the second park preparing Austin punk. I talked insincere Viet team ever. You can get I talked on the Keller hotline today, which will be posting right after the show's over an explanation for why the two situations are different and why actually think Steve Austin should stop apologizing for what he did back in two thousand and two because I think I remember, and I think he'd admit this too. I remember more was going on politically back then then even he does. And I know there's certain things you feel bad about, but he should feel not bad about what he did back. Then ninety nine percent of what he did was the right thing. And I don't think they're comparable situations. But explain that in detail on the Keller hotline today because that's something. That was Steve bring it up is a topic today. I John Reid the pick up on the first part of which Amien NS because it was real muffled to me. Yeah. I think it was he said that there's stone cold set one of two things is going to happen. Then you're gonna find out the Chicago and get them back before mania or. Or M punk will come back when he feels like it. I I don't mean this in a sarcastic way. I I don't know if there is any other option, it is one of those two things. I mean, the only other option is seeing punk says. Hey, I'm flying Stanford next week. Can I meet with you? But yeah, it's either going to be they're gonna talk it out and they're gonna get punked back. And you know, what it it could work out. Great for for a story if you involve on in into prising everybody and because the deal and he comes back at wrestlemainia. And he helps Daniel Bryan win the title. You know, maybe I I don't know that this could go on forever. Trying to speculate on that. But yeah, I don't know which one's going to happen. I would assume he will be back before his contract is up. That's just my guess. And I think that they'll work something out. Sixty percent or sixty percent or ninety percent on on that. He comes back somebody sometime between now, and you know may to to run up to do some final program before the contract expires, July. So expires in July that gives them what seven months from now or sitting. Oh, yeah. That's called he'd have to come back before the last month to make it worth it. Probably. So, you know, basically, either it comes back before mania or comes back within a month after mania to work a final program. Are you have sixty percent or ninety percent on that? Who and those are only twice. It's not kidding. You can. I take it sixty percent because I think what it would have to come down to. I think it would have to be then getting on the phone, which I'm sure they're going to do. And I think she's gonna come down to, you know, Vince go, and look I want you to come back. But I you can't expect me to give you what you want under these circumstances. You walked out on us. We feel like we have been putting you in a prominent role. And I truly would say that Vince believes that he is and yes, he goes up and down. But for the most part he is put in in a prominent role. And I think he would say, I don't know. What else you want from me punk? What do you want? Okay. I wanna headline wrestlemainia. That's not gonna happen. All right, then I'm not coming back. Okay. Great talking to you. Tell me if you or maybe it's look than I wanna be able to come in there. I wanna be able to tell you what I wanna do. And I want you to work with that. And I want to have a voice for for my character. I can understand that you know, you probably won't put me in. Prominent position because hey, my contract running out, but you don't trust me to be happy, and I could walk out again. But I do want these things to happen. And maybe Vince will say, yes, sure. 'cause we can utilize you until then if I'm Vince I'm doing it. I'm gonna say here's my compromise with you punks. I I want you here for as long as you're willing to stay. But if you're saying you need a break in July. I'll give you what you want. If you give me what I want. And I want you to put somebody over or whatever it is Vince want. Come back helped me get Roman reigns over you can leave an inex- exchange before you do that. I will do this for you or come back. I'll help you out or you know, what you want this. That's fine. I'll give it to you. I need you to sign through two thousand sixteen and then I can tell you between now and two thousand sixteen which would resume any of that thirty two. Maybe you will headline a wrestlemainia. Wherever you go. You go for energy on the go. It's got to be five hour energy it works fast. It works long. It tastes good and was zero sugar and four calories. There's nothing holding you back fits your pocket fits your backpack. Fits your on the Bill life. Whether you're going to work going on vacation or just going out with friends five hour energy energy on the go. For more information. Visit five hour energy dot com. When it comes to your education. There's no need to settle get the interactive and purposeful education that you and employers demand from Colorado state university global campus, you'll get personalized career driven learning created and taught by today's industry leaders. See global was built to help students succeed with affordability flexibility and individualized support it's time to expect better. Find your path to the career you wanted see us, you dot EDU where online education is in. Another thing we do. It's all we do. In the caveat to all this John because I think that's all possible. And I think it's absolutely the path to reconciliation is insect man, laying some seeming like he's talking to see him punk is an equal and not looking down at him the way Stephanie and hundred look down at big show on television. And I I really think what they did. This fall rattled wrestlers who have a sense of pride and independence in who. They are as grownups and as professionals, and and I I'm not sure to what degree I don't want to overstate it. But I don't think it went unnoticed. And I think that there's that there's a feeling of emasculation going on that the network and else it was made in the wrestlers haven't been talked to about it. They haven't been told other. Hey will be affected. I think they feel emasculated and disrespected, and I think it's a big mistake. And I think there's an undercurrent that is brewing that management will pay a price for if they don't get on this and Siham punk is the first guy, and I'm not saying that was his main issue. But clearly he talked about it last week with Ariel Halawani that he's doesn't know how that's going. To happen. 'cause they haven't addressed wrestlers yet. And I reported this week that they hadn't as Tuesday at the smackdown tapings address wrestlers yet that is brewing. And I think there's that that that is a problem. So if punk feels like man talks to him and hundred talk to him as an equal a professional who runs a wrestling company. I'm the wrestler who makes that wrestling company work because people pay to see me, even though hundred puts himself on TV, and it's McMahon family who are the centerpiece of storylines rest fans paid ac- wrestlers. And is as good as it gets. So if he feels like he's being treated as an equal, John, I think they could work something out. But we'll Vincent hunter actually want to do that. Will they want to set a precedent that we're willing to talk to wrestlers differently than you need to sit at a chair that is a lot lower than us and look up at us and every ten seconds make sure that you're humble and thank us for us. Even spending time talking to you to comment on on on what you just said number one on the on on the pay per view money, maybe being issue. I don't I don't think that. That would be the main issue just because this is it's something that is. I'm sure the viewer putting together the network when I was there. So you're you're talking about going back to nine with this. So and and the speculation was did we put AAC reviews on the network. So this is all things that when February twenty fourth it talent wasn't left in the dark going. Okay. Well, I guess we're doing this network, and I guess, you know, pay per views or changing, and so I guess we'll just wait a couple of weeks and see what happens. And then if they talked to us, great if not hey punk. You're gonna walk in there and speak for all of us. I think that that might have been one issue. I think that there was something else that happened. I think that punk win in there with that issue. Probably sat there that I don't even know what I'm getting paid for the faith of you. I'm going out there and doing and that was a part of the argument, and the second part is I can guarantee you. Vic Vic man speaks to his talent. As equals I've seen him the approached, and I've also I in in both a hostile and a non hostile way, and he treats guys from the lowest level to the highest level. If the same respect when they're sitting in front of him in his office talking to them about it shoes. I've never seen him talk down. Anyone I can't speak through hundred because at the time. I was there. He was he was more so shadowing, Vince. So he'd be sitting in on those things but not commenting. So I can guarantee you if they pick up the phone and talk Vince is talking to them on the same level and not talking down to it. And that's that's a great point, John. I want to add in kind of defensive or or not these eh perspective. What I'm saying? I think since you've been there as things have shifted a hunter. And Stephanie I've gotten a sense that they've moved away nonsense himself one on one with the top guy. Like, you're saying. But the way that they're trying to become a corporation that just happens to have these interchangeable cogs called superstars has become more pronounced in the last four years. And and that's what concerns me. And I think it I do think it was different four or five years ago. I've gotten enough of a sense that it's that that that that disenfranchisement that wrestlers feel from being part of it is there every year that goes by as the veterans get replaced with people who were from the ground up developmental guys. And does that make any sense? Do you think there's something to it doesn't end and add to that? I if triple h is seeking down to guys I would assume that he's doing it in the sense of going, look, I'm drawing the line of who you think I am being one of the boys. Yeah. Where I am now. And I would rather burn some bridges now to set a precedent for later that I'm the manager charge here. So I need to be treated as such and respected as such. And if. If it means I'm going to hurt some feelings along the way fine because in the long run, that's what I need to establish it. And I and I don't know that again what happens behind closed doors when I'm not around. I can't speak for. But I again, I can tell you that Stephanie has been approached in the locker room privately, and she she treats them just as well as vistas. Now what she does which you're Belaid nowadays. I don't know. But I I could see your point in that maybe triple h could be guilty of it. I truly would think that that Vincent Stephanie handle it the way that it should be handled and treat everybody with respect. And I yeah. And that's something. I actually think it was just on Twitter with somebody said during Ron Monday. Oh, Stephanie must be awful, the workforce. And I went I replied right away people like working for Stephanie like, yeah. I like it. I yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would sometimes walk into her office and speak to her about things I pull her. TD? There was again, everyone works with different people differently. But I have nothing bad to say about her Vince on her maybe people on the writing team. But other than that. I I like everybody there. I liked working with everybody. And I think it's just you know, there's people that probably a lot of people that don't like me, and I don't like some of them. And I wish that some of them did like me. It's just the way people you're never going to get along with everyone. Well, Krista Joseph who's been on the show, and he was a creative team member for a number of years. I think right before you his tenure ended if I'm pr- you did, you know, I my whole my whole tenure was with him there. And then I think he was out after I left. Okay. Great. So he he did not get along. He doesn't have a lot of good to say about Stephanie. But then his departure from the company had a lot to do with her. And so I'm not saying it's unanimous and Christopher Joseph is given his perspective on our show about her. But I will say that when I when I talk about the let me say one of the. Hundred ten years ago on these Keller hotlines that I'm putting up for VIP members from ten years ago. I was talking about hunter already was being feeling restless, we're feeling like he was acting more like management, not one of the boys. That's been something. That's been is kind of on his rap sheet for a long time that he was in a tough position. I would say hasn't handled it particularly well going back to the early two thousands. But it's a tough position to be in. It's a real tough. Brian James wrote dog is dealing with that now probably not handling it perfectly either. But exactly what you said is happening to him. He's one of the boys for all these years. And now he's one of the top producers. He's really moved up the ranks and power behind the scenes, and I've been reporting this for, you know, a month or so big was going into details on this for VIP members that, you know, wrote dogs got some issues with some of the some of the restaurants who are like, hey, man, what happened to you. You were one of us. And he's like, you know, he's he's management now. Yeah. You know, in one sense. I don't I don't blame them because you have to transition into being that person. But you know, I didn't know if I would've known I could just put a title on me just for being on the right team. I I would have done it. I didn't know that it was that easy. Out. Yes. Yes. I know. I know honestly, wait. I mean, I know that they get a good reaction. There is no module reason why the u h outlaws should be the best tag team in the WWE. I my only defense Ford, and I've been I've been mostly critical of it. But but I've I've been a little less. Just oh, my God, this is so the nepotism, and egos, I the one excuse in it may have happened regardless of this. So I'm not in any way writing off. But the network is starting in one of the things they want to draw one of the target audiences for the network are lapsed fans who were part of the attitude era and just don't think the PG areas for them the Johnson eras for them. And so by bringing the new age outlaws back, I think that they're hoping to garner some attention. From those attitude are fans going, hey, this is kinda cool. I remember those guys let me watch to see what they're up to. Oh, there's a network and all I can watch all the pay per view, that'd be fun to go back and watch. So maybe there's some of that going on, but I kind of leaning towards you. It's just kind of convenient that as soon as road Dogg and Billy Gunn gain power behind the. Scene and they're hunters guys. They end up getting all this bonus pay for being the take champions and working matches again. And to though, you would know this better than me interacting with with more of a fan base than I basically just talked to I have friends that don't watch it anymore at all. And and and we grew up as kids loving it being upset with wrestling. And now, they just kinda go, I I don't watch it. But they were around when new age outlaws were a hot AC, and I I know for you know, if I were to tell them, you know, hey, the new age outlaws the tag team champions. They would laugh really they're still around that that I think those fans don't wanna see Billy guns receding, hairline and road, Dogg, gray hair. I think they wanna see. Oh, wow. I did watch the attitude era where they dumped Mick Foley, a off the stage in a dumpster. I wanna see that. And I think that they're sending the wrong signal going. I haven't watched the father in fifteen years and the new age outlaws looking all old or the tag team champion like. I John your can do this then because six months ago on the show roughly, you said bully Ray might be doing great promos, you know, and maybe he's gotten himself in shape and even the best singles matches of his career. But I would look at that. And I go I still wrestling. And he's the best this groups got to offer. That's pretty sad. Yeah. You know, it's hard to shake that when you've been around. And and that's your issue about them being taking champions of the post to in some mid card kind of novelty feud with solar something, they're actually the champions. Exactly. Yeah. Better than everybody else that I'm watching and going oh, man who so I, you know, John, I just tuned in a few weeks ago. I really liked those guys in the cage match and they were doing this. You mean to tell me they can't beat those old guys? And and forgive me for you. I don't wanna say the word fake. But people know that this is a scripted television show that what what comes out of the mouth is scripted. But also what happens in the ring scripted that they're going? They don't need to make them the champion. Right. Are they doing? Absolutely. And then I wish you would have. I wish that that that sermon you just gave would have been sent a TNA about eight years ago because I think they'd be in better shape because they've been chasing that that last fan argument pushed by Bob Ryder, and Jeff Jarrett's. And I mean, you know, in whatever I mean there have been through. So the people of influence eight years ago, I've been pushing that ever since and or you know, from day one really, but they should have steered away from that about eight. Years ago after trying for two three years, and it a better place. The one thing. I don't get about certain things. Like that is you know, I left the company because I wasn't able to accomplish exactly what I wanted. And to me. It wasn't worth just being a note taker because that's kind of what it turned into. And you know, you had pizza that were on the internet going. Hey, wrestling should change. And then they got the opportunity to go to a company like TNA, and they became a notetaker. They're just writing show to appease Dixie Carter. And if that happened to me, I would have left instantly. I there's there's there's so many ways to make money in this industry, the television industry that for me. That's not worth it. You're gonna move me to I don't even know where they are Tennessee or something right or Nashville or wherever they are. You're gonna movie there. You're gonna have me travel. I think at the time it was every week and. And I'm not able to be creative in the way that I want to or the reasons you hired me. I can't provide that for this product. I just don't I just Dixie right in your own show. So I would never put myself in that position again unless I could walk into somewhere and go great who do I answer to Dixie Carter would is what is her vision? This. This is mine. Do we agree? No, thanks or hey, all come in. And if I just find out that everything I'm pitching, which happened to me at the end of my rutta w was just not what they wanted to do then. Okay. Then I'm outta here. I just I don't understand it every and there's probably callers or listeners listening right now that are going John sucks. All these writers suck Vince McMahon. Such AAA shucks, this person's cooler, not cool. If I was in the company these things would happen. And I guarantee you that ninety nine percent of the ninety nine point nine percent of the people that say that would go in. To the company, and they would have what they think is the greatest idea, and maybe it is. But it would get shot down, and they would stay there. And they would put on the product that Vince McMahon or Dixie Carter wants to put on and they'd stay there and collect the paycheck and do it and become the bad guy. And then the next fan comes up and goes that guy sucks. He's the worst writer ever 'cause he worked there. I mean, people used to always say to me on Twitter who are you to comment you were there at the worst time. Okay. Yeah. Probably 'cause you know, but. It just I don't I don't understand that aspect, but I guess everybody's different. So good luck. I want to give some people reason to visit PW torch dot com while they're listening to that either live today on Friday tonight or this weekend some headlines today on the site Friday Jake Roberts to wrestle again. Next month. We have details on that. We have details on Jim Rome. Speaking appearance update on Jeff hardy. We also have a full notes on the WWE's weekend tour or including the top matches. Who's advertised also notes on teenager European tour? Also interview highlights Daniel Bryan talks about how w w we can draw answering USC and boxing, dean, Ambrose talks about signing out of the blue and the shields debut. We have details. John on what we talked about earlier with you the Steve Austin interview on senio hall. I also talking about CNN punk leaving WWE and comparing the pump situation 'em quitting in two thousand and two and also Steve Austin has and this is a breaking up date. Austin has a message to Justin Bieber on TMZ. We've got to deals on that you can find it at the empty to. I we have smackdown. Spoilers for tonight's show. Always always have smacked on others out. If you want to preview the show to see if it's worth watching beforehand if you miss it. Greg parks is always covering it on Fridays. And that that is the report is available live as a show airs. And then of course, all weekend. If you want to catch up on what you missed. Also, Dana white has addressed see 'em punk leaving. And he talks about whether he's talked to punk since Monday. And whether he'd be interested in CNN punk in any capacity impact spoilers James, call does in-depth report on last night's TNA impact. We gotta pull on impact so much more. That's just the last twenty four hours of select headlines from the last twenty four hours so catch up on wrestling news at POW, torch dot com or are PW torch app. Available on iphone Android in other phones in the app store. I wanna take a brief second to thank people because well the show was on the air. I we hit a land. We hit two goals or to kind of landmarks in terms of our web, traffic one. We broke our five year traffic. Record. Well, the show was on the air for a month because it's the thirty first. So it's near the end of the month. While the show was in the air. We have now topped our best months in the last five years since we started using this particular, traffic tracker, and we also well the shows on the air just so happened that we doubled last January's web traffic. So just thanks to everybody out there for your support. I know the live cats has helped expand awareness for our website. And we appreciate all the live cast listeners who also visit POW torch dot com every day. The SPN torch feature is the most popular thing. We added last may and just about every single day since may we've had one or two SPA w tortuous up. And you're not gonna find that anywhere else. The staff has version, and I talked about it earlier. The all star version also was up most often we put up to versions each day. And it's absolutely reason to visit everyday besides the news TV reports, and that kind of thing. So anyway, just wanna take a moment for that. We've got some more, callers, and let's go to them predate the patients those who have been on hold for a long time the one who has been on hold the. The longest it looks like it's Eric six. Oh one. So let's go to six one next six one, please state your name and where you're from. Hey, guys. Sorry Robertson from Jackson dipping. How ya doing today? I get sucked. What do you got for John today? John. Don't worry. I've been Finney on with at the it was one way. If I was on there were clan about the that they do is not the rioters is Vince Stephanie chasing, everything I pay. I pay. Calling so way hoping you listen if you get here to haul story, so. They tried to go stuff, but pretty much. Much I'll cover your day. But I was on at some to the mic Olympic different by Wapping puck mill. In addition to him leaving him about being frustrated about the teeth. I feel that being the champion for three days. He got out Sam by saying he's timing wasn't lucrative. So they seen back in the mix. The be tomato bit. Then I didn't have problem with him losing the Bill to Dirac. I wish that they will let rock you. Rub back to them puck wrestlemainia and John thing because I won't say. But once again, it seemed like everything goes back to it between triple h and John, and that's why everybody's getting frustrated because I mean, they, you know, they go throughout so they know air you can tell you about that happened in the air about own two days with everybody was treated equally air bell, meet was on even level playing the all the bills treat is playing. But if some happy with. You know, jumping the sitting down and him, you know. No one WBZ. It'll be happy that also I think this man, I don't care 'cause he's rights. Right. I think that's also a big deal, and that's all a half the day. Thanks. Appreciate it. Was there? A question their John. I wasn't able to figure out if there was no, I don't know. But I can't say. First of all thank you for. You know, I think people just like to blame somebody. And while we are guilty of certain things, there's some things that we're not thank you for defending that. But the c- Brunton. Yeah. I actually thought that they could have done rock owes out the title. And I probably said this on your show, but I would have had him punk hold the title until wrestlemainia and have him go against undertaker streak versus streak because he said that title at that point probably over five hundred days, I think and you've got undertaker coming back. The only guy who hasn't had a crack out of yet. And I would have seen them beat them. I mean, he maybe he's not the guy that you could trust. But I think that if you would have given him that and had him old the title. I I don't think I can't see you can make anybody happier. And and you can always you could always use that to get fucked. Look, we did something with you that nobody expected you no one ever. Thought you were gonna hold the titles on nobody has in twenty five thirty years beat the undertaker wrestlemainia, you are guy. How can you complain? And I don't think he would have. And I think he would have made such a mega star punked. And I think that the punk is your best bet to connect with people outside the wrestling industry, and you saw that when he did the pipe bomb Pearl. How many people jumped on that with him and to and to this day still have see a punk regarded outside of of wrestling. I mean, there's guys that are probably more into UFC seeing punk WWE. They're not getting interviewed by area. Who wanna you know? So like. The people outside the industry. He's their best bet. I honestly, I think it's good people probably go. He looked cool. And he kind of reminds me of stone cold Steve Austin, which just the way he comes across and what he's telling and his character. And I think that would have been the guy to go with and I know me you differ on this way and the din another subject, we won't get on it. But I do think they need to end that streak because it's an asset that died with the other taker would he can't go anymore, and I think you could can you with that putting that asset onto somebody and make money with that streak with undertaker's otherwise it dies with him. Just to say. Here you go. Very good. Oh, I just kinda had about, oh, I, you know, the one thing about Sam punk that. I'm on my I'm a little on alert for and I've done a lot of defending of some critical certain parts about the one thing. And you're talking about this minute ago. I what I don't want is for punk when he leaves WWE to decide that he's going to an even he's never. Infinitive never filtered his opinions anyway. So it's asking a lot for him to start doing it. But if he leaves WWE, and then his whole thing is wrestling's not cool anymore, and I'm kind of too cool for WWE, and I left because it's not cool anymore, and I wouldn't be a fan of this product. I I'm not a fan of that. Because you know, like wrestling gave him a lot and as much as he ripped on rock privately and a little bit publicly, you know, rock left, and then he came back and took my main event, and, you know, a spot for other people and all that seconds like the idea that punk is going to leave. And then he's going to be well at the cool place to be as USC. I'm a big shot because I'm on FOX. I'm being interviewed by Ariel and Dana. I'm hanging out with Dana white, and I got my USC buddies. This is where the cool this is cool unstable. Now, not what's going over there with Daniel, Bryan, and Randy Orton and Damien Sandow or whatever I don't want him. I think there's a way to walk away from wrestling. And in a dignified way and let the symbolism b but not start doing what Brock in Batista. Did where Batista's like the PG stuff? It's so lame and Brock. Oh, wrestling so fake. I'm ashamed. I was over part of it. I'm totally paraphrasing slightly exaggerating. But that's the impression people got when they walked away. I want punked to take a higher road when it comes to that. And not make it seem like now that he's not part of wrestling. It isn't cool in the reason he leaned KOMO. I just I think he he doesn't oh it to wrestling. But I think the kind of cool decent thing to do for all the colleagues who helped him get to where he is who are still trying to make a living because of the power he holds with a certain demographic don't make them feel foolish for so following if they're still enjoying it. 'cause I still enjoy it. And I think there's a lot to enjoy about it just because punk got burned out on. It isn't a reason for him to go and define it as if you're a punk fan. You're not going to WWE shows anymore that kind of makes sense, John. Absolutely. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. I real quick news note Tina ratings it was mentioned them. They came in with another good rating last. Tonight, one point one four down from last week's one point two one a little bit of two weeks ago at one point. Oh, wait. But it is the fourth week in a row that they've been out above the one point overrating, Mark. And it is the there's only one time they've dip below that. And that was the day after New Year's day since December fifth, so it's got a little bit of ratings momentum going on right now is laughable with some aspects of the show are in his inexcusably sloppy as some of the production and logic, and all that they are going to be staying on course, I think because they have in the process of seeing their ratings grow change the show around and in some pretty major ways that saved them a lot of money. So it's not really today's topic. But something I'll be talking about and trying to process with on the VIP side of things over the next couple of days to 'cause they, you know, spike, TV's going to be happy with with ratings on the one to the one in one to range compared to when they were kind of hovering in the point seven range that said there. Still getting beat by cops reruns. So let's keep that rating in perspective cops that one point five six million viewers compared to one point four four million four impact. Anyway, like, I said, I don't want to waste time on a show where there's so much talk about Daniel Bryan and punk that we haven't gotten to yet. But that just came in. So I thought I'd throw that out there. I wanna take a couple more calls before we moved to the VIP exclusive after show again to go via IT, we've had so many people signing up in the last month or so and a lot of new people this week and a lot of people coming back, and I welcome back people for whatever reason you were a quote lapsed VIP, or it is absolutely great to have you back one thing for sure to check out if you're an audio fan in devour, our audio is the newsletter. We revamped it about eight weeks ago, and I get emails every day about it. We've completely changed it and gone back to the format of the late nineties kind of a retro format. I got a lot of feedback on some changes we made and we listened to you. And we steered it back, and we're doing a weekly legends towards talks series page to radar is something that I do with. 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You can do ten dollars a month for VIP, ten others for newsletters or thirteen dollars a month for both. So we got some good pricing options to fit your budget checkout. Details join in on a mass movement to join the IP on this crazy news period that we're in. And we haven't even talked about the network, John that's coming up and just over. Three weeks. So it is an exciting time to be covering professional wrestling, and it's a bummer. Sam punk won't be part of it. But there's a lot of other stuff going on worth worth talking about. Fan of the week Keller purposing podcast in Wade Keller. Pro wrestling post shows have you checked out the POW torch daily Kesselman up yet. It's new for twenty nine thousand nine formerly known as the POW torch live cast, the POW torch daily cast features and new show every single day Monday through Friday every afternoon. A new show drops Mondays. It's enemy talk for pro wrestling fan. Tuesdays. 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He's live at eight eastern taking your calls talking about recent major events and professional wrestling from all promotions, WWE annex t ring of honor new Japan and more or previewing upcoming big events, including the latest developments in announced matches. So check that out that is the POW towards daily cast lineup. All you have to do a search p w torch on your podcast app or go to our homepage. PW torch daily cast dot com on that page, you'll find links to the upcoming live weekend shows and links to the most recent posts that you can download or stream right off our website. You can find out more about the lineup to at POW torch daily, cast dot com or search PW torch on your podcast app. They are free and waiting for you right now. That's torch daily cast dot com or search PW torch. Let's take it out. Another phone call or two before the VIP after show and we'll start their co two one nine two nine. Thanks so much for holding. Please state your name and where you're from. Hi. This is Mike from Indiana. Eight mike. Thank your patience holding. What have you got no problem? So I have a two part question. I'll try to make this quick first of all I don't I don't really like the WW championship being on the line and the elimination chamber before wrestlemainia, it just doesn't seem right. They have someone win a mess like this. And then go into wrestlemainia defending the title after being champion for only a month. I'm so I'd like to get your thoughts on that. But the second part of my question is why not have two title defenses. If somebody like they did at wrestlemainia ten instead of having the title defended in the chamber. They could put the second title shot on on the line in the chamber which animal Brian would Wayne. So then it would be and it gets Batista. And then whether Daniel Bryan beats or lose the triple h he gets a shot against the winner of the keeps Batista Orton match later in the night. You guys think something like this could work. What do you think John? Yeah. I while I agree with you that I don't like them putting the title up elimination chamber being so close to wrestlemainia. I'd have to give that some Stott on defending it twice because I don't think that that should be an annual thing. But in saying that, hey this year, we're going to do something different man off the top of my head. And hearing it I would probably say I would probably say no because I feel like as a fan that first title match doesn't really mean as much when you go to mania, and you'd have Orden come out and face, Batista. I I don't know. I kind of feel like, okay? This is just a match till I get the the actual real championship defended in two hours. Although I think that that's maybe a better. I don't know are you on Twitter. I think it'd be better to give me some thoughts on Allston or some time to think then I can get back to or an Email. If you want a Email Wade, and then all you know, you back a better well thought out answer instead of you know, what I recommend is thinned sin that scenario because it was I I'm not saying it's too complex to the follow listening to you. But it's it's multi-faceted. I'd recommend you send an Email to ask PW torch at gmaiLcom, and I'll forward it to all the all stars and all the staff, and we can kind of address that in in the next week in one of the people torch features give everybody a chance to kind of sound off on it. Yeah. Sorry. I couldn't give you a well-thought-out answer. It's just I don't have. I don't I don't. I don't have a feeling one way or another that that strong anything else for its Mike. Okay. No. That would be. So that's S P W torch yet, female dot com. Yup. And then just visit PWB torch dot com every day in in. And we'll probably the both the staff and the all stars will address it in separate versions of that of that feature. Okay. Sounds great cool things. Appreciate your calling. Appreciate your support of next year. Co two eight one two eight one thanks for your patience to please state your name and where you're from. Hey, guys shit Houston. Are you doing this evening doing good? Jay, thanks. But here from you as always what do you got for John? All right question for you. John. John. Creek. I haven't seen point pushing you will. That really make money or make 'em pump bigger 'cause to me sand to see that see take a streak ended. It would be like as a football fan watching the New England Patriots have that perfect season losing the Super Bowl. It's real Downer. And if seeing pump is a he'll at wrestlemainia ending the street wouldn't people kind of resent him for that, John. Let me let me before you answer. Even though I don't. I don't think later you talking. I'm sorry. I just want to say one quick thing before you answer. I think in and I want you to answer this in in addition to what J asked I think the person who ends undertaker's streak if it happens should be a heel. Because I think there will be resentment. And I think you have to have them the streak to to transition to transfer the streak it has to go from I want. I want undertaker to keep it going to I want this this jerk. I don't like to have their streak ended after one or two or three. And then eventually if the street continues, they have it for so long that then then they they've actually turned face on the fans like I respect the fact that he was able to keep the street going this long. It's probably too late for punk to approach. What's for sure? Too late in age wise for punk to approach undertaker's record, probably. But anyway, I just wanted to interject that that I don't think pumping. He'll is a problem. I actually think that is the only way because I think if a baby face entertainers streak, that's where maybe there'd be some resentment. Yeah. I my ideal situation is not to have funk in the street. At that wasn't something that that I always had in mind. I think ideally the way to end the street while I I guess I don't wanna say ideally, I would put it on a guy similar to like Roman reigns. Where you know. He's a stab wish we've gotten him to that point. So it wouldn't happen anytime soon. But maybe you know, if you're doing a Dallas stadium or cowboy stadium, it wrestlemainia thirty two, and you've got rains in a position to do that someone like him who would could take Wade's idea and carry that streak. But I also think that the money is in the heel making a career out of saying I ended the undertaker's streak. So while that he'll let's say it's the m punk can go out there and lose he can show up the next day on raw or the next week on raw and go. Hey, I ended the undertaker streak. So he always has that to throw it in your face similar to jerk. Jericho jericho. He won the undisputed title who knows how many years ago, and he in his provost probably the last time he was even with with the company for sure what I was. There was still talking about how he was the first undisputed champion. So I even think that if you were to ask me now how you should end the streak in using maybe your method along with Wade's where you have a baby face. But she'll why not if you can do seen a versus undertaker when you can do it. And if you decide to do it, and I'm not saying that you should at this moment. Even though I felt differently. A few years ago, if you do decide to turn Johnson, a he'll that's the way to do it. I mean, it was it doesn't do as much for taking that asset in the street and making money for the next ten years, but you make a John sina. He goes into it as a baby face baby-faced versus baby face in front of a hundred. Thousand people at wrestlemainia thirty two in Dallas. You can't say it's a it's really connected to the undertaker. But I think people would get that and maybe versus baby face John CENA Hisam with so many finishers, you can't put them away. He he he heals a win whatever way that might be with a chair tights, whatever it is and John CENA, just cheated to end the undertaker's streak. And now you've got this huge. He'll as long as you got a baby face ready to to take that. Because then I think you can still transition that streak because you made this monster heel, and then you eventually build a baby face that takedown seena. I think you can kind of push all of that over to that guy. But again, ideally, I think you should put it on a young guy. But I think that young guy has to be a he'll because you're taking away the most. It's like what what I very balanced is the biggest deal in baseball probably still to this day. Well, maybe a-rod has taken over that. But he was the biggest he'll because he beat the most beloved record in all of sports, and you did it any cheated to do it and people hated him for it. And he's still is that guy today, and I. I think that you you need that bad guy to go in there and take that from the undertaker and then make a career off of it. So I wait, I even remember we had a conversation a few years ago where we were thinking, maybe Wade Barrett would be that guy who could do it because he was in that position he handled it well being top. And he was seen as someone that if we gave that to them we know that he's the right guy for I don't see him as that guy now. But I think it should be a younger guy. And then now that guy is made you just made a guy based off one night pinning one guy, and I think you should utilize that and I've always felt that about Royal rumble money in the Bank, whatever else they could have put together I always felt like you should put that on a guy who's not quite fair yet. But you want to get him there because there's only so many ways that you could instantly get a guy over instantly a. Credibility. We're guy like John says this needs to win money in the Bank. So I would do the same thing with the street. So again, I don't think the ideal situation was punks versus undertaker. I'm just saying that if I was there at the time, and this is what we were working with. I would have had the idea of going. Why don't we keep it on punk? Why why do we need to involve the WW title with a rock? That's still huge. Now. Let's go to the the one b which is streak versus streak, and let's shock the world. And let's have CNN punk. We know he could be we know he can translate. He could be a top guy. Can you trust them? I don't know. Butt lifts. They that match. Now, you have the real threat. I mean, people are going to go in there. Yeah. There's the threat but undertaker's probably gonna win. And then oh my God. See 'em punk beat the undertaker at wrestlemania and he's still. The champion. We in the past. So that's knocking along time about stuff that doesn't matter today. That's okay. Speaking of looking ahead. One thing I reported this week on the VIP online was the that Vincent man was very open to new ideas at creative this week in the they're blowing up a lot of they're very open blowing up some things that were seemed locked down plants and later today on a front page today. Bulletin update that I'll be putting out for VIP members. I'll have some details that just came in during the show on some stuff going on at creative this week that will be very interesting for people to hear about regarding the wrestlemainia thirty lineup. So if you haven't been VIP, even one more nudge to do it because we say that stuff are paid members who make it possible for us to do everything that we do here at the torch. And we've got some good scoops and good good things to speculate on and play off of headed into this weekend based on what was going on today and yesterday at headquarters. All right. Let's take maybe one or two more calls. Maybe just one before we go to the after show here. And we go to air six oh nine on hold long tonight. Please take your name and where you're from. Okay. We can't hear from sixty nine. So we'll we'll make try three four seven. And you're the last caller that they three or four seven please state your name and where you're from. All right. That makes it very easy, John. We will have up the show on that note the live cast. Thank you everybody for joining us. It has been a great run for people, you dot com. So record-setting traffic doesn't even take into account. Our Ashraf are our traffic on our app, which is even more than our website. That's been growing like crazy as smartphone usage and app, you suggest expanded. So it's a it's been a fun ride as we continue to grow the last several years, and we think everybody for joining us here on the POW torch live cast tune in on Monday night in the hour before raw for the Bruce Mitchell hosted live cast with Travis Bryant of the east coast cast, and if you are an M fan, don't forget to go to enemy torch dot com for the latest in MMA and US news. Jamie Penick is our fulltime editor in chief. And we've got a great staff covering the world of Emma may including rich Hansen. Sean NS and others. They've got you covered with full. Time coverage exclusive columns and breaking news with analysis of all those news stories, which we won't find on other enemies sites. Check that out 'em torch dot com. It's also an app a free app. Just like the people you tortured is on your iphone or Android device. Thank you again. Everybody for joining us and big. Thanks, john. For your generous time and insights today, we will have you on again wrestlemainia season. Hopefully and talk about, you know, follow up on everything going on. But we still have a VIP after show, and we've got some cool Email questions and some topics I wrote down, including I wanna get your opinion. 'cause I know you follow him on the prospects of Brock listener getting back into USC, which Dana white this week has talked more and more about being a possibility. Yup. Very good. Thanks, everybody. All right, John. We're now in the VIP after show portion of the program VIP members. Thank you so much for showing support for what we do here with your paid individual membership. John let's start with that Brock listener Dana white says Brock's got the itch that he feels like for variety of factors. Over him. Fight wasn't Representative of how he would do in twenty fourteen or twenty fifteen suffering from diverticulitis. He's certainly caved in into the fetal position when he started getting punched where he had surgery. It was fair a fair fight strategy for over aim, but less nurse looking at the landscape and thinks maybe there's some big money fights that intrigued him at his age and having been out of it is it kinda fair to say that he had diverticulitis he was affected by that. Even before he he knew he had it, and he was so dominant until that diverticulitis kicked in and then got so vulnerable afterwards. Could he be the beast again looking at the lay of the land? I don't think that with the talent that's in that heavyweight division. Now, he would be champion again. But I think he looks at it and goes on I went in against over rain. I I was injured in whatever regard, and you got. Let kicked and I think that he's Vincent seen over rains performances. And and feels like he could beat them overeating is a was a top contender for the title. But I just think I don't think he'd beaten gained Alaska. I don't think he'd be junior. Does Shawn toes. He's not beating Travis Brown. But I don't wanna take anything away from those. He would be a I in saying top guy don't wanna say he'd be top three or four. But you can't count out Brock listener seeing what he did when he went there after one professional fight. Nobody has done what he's done with the experience that he had in the UFC. And I don't think it'll ever happen again. So I would never count against Brock. I'd love to see Brock in there. When you're tough, dude. Sometimes, you know, you don't need to be a skilled as everybody else. But when. You get to the top there tough, dude, and they're skilled, and I think they're just on a level above Brock. So I don't see him going there and win in the the UFC title again. Although based off what he did the first time. I wouldn't be surprised if somehow he figured it out Frank mirror. We have close on MA torch dot com today from him about the prospects of fighting listener again, and he said, I don't get the birding. I gotta get this guy. I don't have that personality ride. Just hold things like that. But when people ask if I wanna fight him again, I say, yeah. Love to if it's there. I'm gonna take advantage of it. If it's not I'm not gonna worry to me that would be kind of entry match, you know. And it depends on how does between now. And when listener it comes back, if he does, but you know, going back to that fight would be an entry point to test where Leser or stands and because there's a history there and those two can sell a fight. You know, maybe that's what you do to that. That is there and then sounds like MIR's open to it. And you know, it's kind of super fight. But it's a legit super fight between two legacy guys. Not. Herschel Walker, you know, or or or or you know? Yeah. That type of thing Kimmel you. And when you become what you've accomplished in the US USC, which what Brock listener is done. He he's not anywhere near. I'm not saying you're saying it, but he's nowhere near spectacle of like a Herschel Walker coming in there and fighting demand is a former UFC heavyweight champion who due to a circumstances outside of his talent had to quit fighting so him coming back. I don't think by the time. He comes back MIR we'll still fighting, but I could see, you know, maybe over rain. But then you're still talking what another year at least right or unless they work out a deal. But I think by the time he comes back if he has to wait until after his contract. I don't see either like ovary more MIR still being there. But of course, if I'm like tell you I'm taking that bike because he's gonna make a load of money off of it. I think anybody would take that fight. And we'll find out tomorrow. We're over. Mir stand, you know, on you'll see one sixty nine so, you know, if mayor puts into dominant showing, and then, you know, fights one of these, you know, one of these top four four or five rank guys who are up and comers. You know? I'm not predicting that'll happen. But if he does that listener fight takes on new meaning because then it becomes also a gateway to be taken seriously. Again, the listener story they can't tell is this guy was unbeatable until diverticulitis. And you know, there's no reason to believe he can't be dominated again. That's the sales pitch. They can give agree with your analysis. But in terms of selling a fight and giving a guy who was -ccomplish, what broadcast on the amateur level, and the pro level, you know, he he does get fast tracked to the top. If he looks dominant against some credible mid level heavyweight contenders. I think he comes back in crush his break mayor. I think he gets a top guy. If you beat that guy eat or get title shots for he get the number one contender ship based solely on the potential. What that fi rate and the money that they can make up and waited. A side note before you move on if I if I lose you I'll call right back in within a minute or two. Okay. So. Yup. Predate the warning. All right. I want to ask. Oh, just not as big a big of a deal, but we talked about Wade Barrett. I wrote down a note, bad news Barrett. What what are your thoughts on? It is this. I've been sick man type of idea. It was Wade Barrett. So adrift that this is actually better not ideal. Not where you'd wanna be considered, you know, comp- compared to where we thought he'd be three years ago. But given where he was is it better to have something that they can give them reason to be on TV four, I have all kinds of mixed feelings about the gimmick. My inclinations like everybody else to hate it. But then I get a kick out of it a little bit. And I love at the podium gets tolerant holler every week. And there's just part of me where it's kinda my guilty pleasure. And I literally feel guilty about enjoying it. Because I think he should be much better off than he is your thoughts. I think that venture really likes them. And I think that he wants to find something that clicks with them. And I don't think that what he's been given since field is is check. Hang on. I saw. We started Lucy, John you're fading for losing. Most of what you're saying. Okay. I'll call I'm actually really you can start talking listening. But I I guess if you didn't hear anything I'm saying, I think bench want something to click with him. Yeah. And I think that this is probably Vince gimmick. Which is why you're seeing so much of it. And I don't think it's working. It's a gimmick will a gimmick will never work when it's taken from something that was done better. Which was Debbie Downer on head said L? I mean whoever's writing those segments literally taking everything from those bits and just referencing stuff. Now, I think it's very poorly written. I don't think that it's generating any sort of real heat outside of vicious stupid. And. But when it's a fence gimmick, it will tend to be given lots of opportunities to try to succeed. I like Wade Barrett. I am not a fan of this. Gimmick, nor do I ever press play when I fast forty three raw when he's on because of this giving. Yup. Fair enough fair enough. You started to come back, by the way, we we only missed a little bit at the beginning. But you're you're a little older now. So we're just want assure you of that. Let's let's take an Email question here. This is okay. This is interesting. Why not VIP member? Scott brill. I see 'em punk is finished with WWE. Do you guys? See him coming back one day in the future. Maybe in the far future on the corporate side. Also punk is done. Does that force WWE given and give Brian the title two very separate questions? Oh, and he says I Don I love your inside its format creative team member. And tomorrow's so very first John. Are you a hundred percent sure we'll see undertaker at wrestlemania against whom? He he had a follow up Email there. Okay. So let's see the first one was do. I see him coming back. I like on the corporate side, maybe five years for an hour or something. Well, I mean, if it's the corporate side, either has to be a producer creative. I would think I think he would be great as either one. I don't see him doing it. I think the one thing that he probably hates the most about WWE always those two aspects of the product. So I would bet your to say the answer would be no. And the next one. The next one is title. Yeah. Yeah. No, I don't think it forces their hand. I think that I think that I think that all the elements outside of the GM punk situation. It's forcing WWE and to put the title on Brian. I just don't think they're gonna do it soon as everyone thinks I think that and I somewhat agree with that. Even though I gave that wrestlemainia thirty scenario, which I would still do. But I think there could be a lot of money being made if they build the story properly without making you lose hope, and you know, one thing I wanted to say wait is when you do your show with Bruce Mitchell, and he was very adamant that Daniel Bryant the sheriff dirt is damaged and while I'm a big proponent of -greeing with him that a character can be damaged. And then you just turn you know, the next week. He's a killer. Again, does it were. Work because. What the guy's been perceived as for the last however long. I don't agree with Bruce that Daniel Bryan is damaged because of the recovery. The crowd is not reacting that way, if Daniel grind was damaged, and he was being put in these positions. I think he's actually gained more momentum from all of this than it has hurt him. So I just wanted to throw that out there your opinion. I I think I think I think there's validity to what you're saying. And I even think Bruce it Chuck to be a little, but he actually pulled back a little bit on a for on that from opinion. I think at the end of this last update, or or in the midst of it, he was like, you know, he's starting to get the sense that maybe he wasn't his damage does he thought he was? And maybe that has some who knows. I mean, he talked a little bit more detail about why he's he's sensing that, but there there does seem to be fans are not backing down from what's gone on in. It's actually made. I think a little more fiercely defensive of what they believe danube-rhine deserves. And I think even BRUCE'S a little surprised by that at this point. Because I I'm with you. I think I think he'll he might never be. Moreover, then he was in the three minutes after he pinned seeing that summer slam, but he'll be over in a different way. And perhaps in a very salvageable way. If they just do things right starting tomorrow. Right. And you know, what I actually think while as a fan, you would look back and go man, they screwed my guy out of winning the title. I want that title of I actually think in the end what they did is benefiting Daniel Bryan right now, I think he wore over I know he had that moment summer slam. But I think that them screwing essentially the fans out of putting the title on Bryant has made them become more passionate about saying. That's who we want. And I think it's helping Brian. And I think I think that that all. The screwing it actually benefited WWE in the sense of. Okay. Now when we do something with Brian. It's going to be huge. Where before I think it would have just been like. All right. You guys got it. Right. This is the guy we wanted. Thank you, very much, and it just kind of would have been uh, we're enjoying it. We got our guy. Now, I think it's gonna be fans going we did it, you know, in and using www analogy we as a fan base took down the machine at we got what we wanted. And now, we're gonna stand our guy, and then they go, I don't know. Well, the other thing I want to talk about because I think a lot of people, you know, have this. This discussion of you know, he was booked horribly and what I kind of foreshadowed earlier in in getting to with that while I believe the right thing. I know I won't think about while. I don't believe that this summer slam by rate was because Daniel Bryan was in the main event, I don't think anyone's looking at it from Vince McMahon standpoint point in going, look, this is the guy that was getting hot. And we put him in a position to be Indian main event against the number one guy in this company for the last decade. And he's gonna go over. I mean, it was pretty like I mean as a fan, you think in Daniel Bryan's winning this title, and they never really teased that Randy Orton was going to cash it. And yet people did not. Meets speculation as far as what's number should have been. So when you look at it at since you, go, okay? So he's been to everybody wants or is this just a small portion of my audience that wants Daniel Bryant, and they're just beloved is because guys how can you say I'm messing up when Hugh didn't by the pay per view to see your guy complete this journey. So, you know, it's it's it's you can't just go and throw it in visits face and go, you don't know what you're talking about. Because why didn't people go by that paper? So I don't know how you feel about that. But that's kind of the sense that I got where I don't get it. Because who is right is Vince right for his the fan base. Right. Because the numbers are showing the numbers aren't I don't even know the right words for for what I'm trying to say. But the the. I don't know what you get what I'm trying to do. I think one of the one of those issues that let me go back to the first point you make because that's one that I have a I think I have a more clear answering where I come from on. It is is. Yeah. Daniel the the Dana, Brian, and he gets more popular with a fan base that like see on punk. I think he's less popular or taken less seriously as the top guy by the fan base that likes Johnson. And I think that you have to weigh the too because when you spend months telling people this guy is a flying boat. He's doesn't own a TV. He's a vegan and even more recently. He's too small. He's not he's not a top. He's not the face of the company candidate when you kinda do that. And then he doesn't win time after time. And then you don't give them a chance to actually go. Hey, wait. Wait a second. You screwed me out of title four pay previews on a row, and they'll big show gets a lawyer, and he gets a title shot, and I'm just supposed to go meekly into my into my next feud and walk away from this. They didn't give him a chance to represent himself. And in a way that kinda defines it it. It tells fan. Brian doesn't think he deserves another title shot? Maybe he isn't the face of the company, even though the way things played out the natural reaction for Debenham. Brian would have been say, screw you. I got screwed over. When do I get my title shot my fair shot the one where I'm not screwed out of it? And he hasn't gotten that. So I think the phantom like who likes the punk are more rally behind Daniel Bryan than ever because they're upset, but I wonder if the the bashing Brian over and over again in position the fans who aren't watching on pay per view and not paying attention all the details. They go God bright. But what abo says Brian got chances to chance after chance and never walked away with the belt? How damaged is he from five six months of everybody being told this guy that you were on the verge of really liking taking seriously as a top star last summer really does isn't cut out to be a top guy. And I think that with a certain segment of the fan base is still there. But but let me rewind that and go you you just said that and I'm not arguing I'm just trying to bring this back to get your answer. 'cause I'm really curious. You said Daniel Bryan was the most over for those three minutes after he won the WW title after pinning Johnson, a clean it summer. So that when when the vibrates came in from that, that's what I think the direction chain. In going. Look, maybe we were gonna have Brian get the title back from Orton, but we can't now because these numbers came in and they didn't meet expectations. So my question to you is before we even got to the Big Joe or getting four opportunities and getting screwed. Why didn't the fan base show their support? And by that pay per view to see their guy, perhaps with his first opportunity be the biggest star in the company because you have to know that not talking down to you. But just right generally thing, you have to know that this is a visit and offense goes I can't put my money behind a guy who's not generating the income needed or expected. I can't continue to put that guy in that position. So what the printing summer slamming the disappointment of the numbers? Right. And I think Vincent man was over the optimistic about what those numbers work because it did about three hundred thousand vises here which is down from three fifty year before but that was lesson or triple h when listener was in his his second match back. It was the summer slam with Daniel Bryan on top and a program. They kind of threw together against another baby face without a ton of backstory to make the match make total sense was there as one of the co headlines, but it did over one hundred thousand more buys at about thirty five percent better than money in the Bank. Did the previous month? I'm not sure kosher that's a failure. And I think it's man spun the numbers when they were disappointing more not because deep down he thought, well, maybe he talked himself into thinking Daniel, Bryan and punk failed is top draws this. This proves our self filling prophecy or I should say our preconceptions that they're not top guys 'cause they don't look like top guys. And instead. Maybe he needed to look at those numbers. If you weren't talking to Wall Street and go, wow, lesbian or a year later and a match with your together that's face versus face, which traditionally doesn't do particularly well, unless it's a clash of rights, tablets baby faces did one hundred thousand plus vise better thirty five percent better than then then money in the Bank, did and it only fifty thousand less than summer slam the year before when Lessner was this hot act in second big match. So I think Vincent spent. A Wall Street was scape was looking for a scapegoat. Why they were down from the year before for Wall Street people who look at the numbers and not the nuances of where were they storyline wise, attraction wise. So I'm I think you make a good point. And then maybe the story Vince tells himself, and it's very worth trying to see things through Vince, his I do all the time. And I think that is perhaps the Lenzi looks at it through. It's also possible we just put that out there as a spin for Wall Street analysts, and that that was kind of my point too is going guy. You have to understand that this is this is the way Vince looks at it. So. While you can say this was a thrown together story with two baby faces invented. Yeah. There's times he doesn't like what's out there. But majority of the time he's going to believe in the product that he puts out there. So he has to find an excuse for himself. I young go eve I was expecting this. What's the reason? And it could be the exact reasons you said I just kinda wanted to throw that out there as well. The point. I'm trying to make is go and look guys you're gonna get your opportunity now Daniel Bryan win or lose is going to get a WW title match sometime in the near future. So if you want him to be at top guy now is your chance to show that whether it's buying the network, you know, at the announcement of Daniel Bryan getting a title shot. Whether it's I I mean, I guess it's different because we don't know how you can generate these these buys now and see what is more popular than the other. But. Now, your time to show your support, you know, don't because if you don't you're not going to get what you want because it's all gonna come down to is Vincent man going to make money off Daniel, Bryan. And if you show that he will you will get what you want very good. Let's with a few minutes, we have left. Let's dive into Scott's other question, which was we'll undertaker for mania and against whom. Are we just assuming listener at this point? And he will be there. I mean, my that's my reporting. Yeah. I think I think at this point. I think at this point there is a one hundred percent answer whether he's working or not. So I'm assuming the answer is. Yes. But if it one hundred percent this close into it. But each year, I mean, man, I was there. Oh, nine and ten and it was a question of okay, is is he gonna make it? So I would think that it's gotta be less ner. I don't know anyone else position. But now, we gotta think wait. You know, if they're reshuffling everything, and they're going, you know, in maybe let's say Vince goes, I'm not sold on Daniel Bryan, getting a title match at wrestlemainia, but let's do it. Well, now, you gotta give fence the match he wants that. He thinks is going to get the most interest, and maybe he might go. All right. I'll tell you what here's what we're gonna do Brian versus Ortner, Batista or how ever we arrange it. But now I want seen versus undertaker, and then we'll hold off on less, nurses, undertaker. But I'm I'm assuming it's gonna probably be less diverse is take her because I think outside of him versus sina. That's the best money match for taker. All right. Let's let's get another question here. This from Joe from Leesburg, Virginia, high in John David come back this year and pretty much the same role as a rock. I was struck at how meek Batista seem to last Monday on raw there seems to be a stark contrast between the rock and Batista regarding their charisma. The rock is always able to captivate a crowd. Whereas last Monday, but Teesta was dressed like a Hobo and just hollered at Randy Orton. Also, we seem to play second fiddle. The Brock listener as WWE overestimated, the appeal of Batista. I love to hear your thoughts on that topic. Oh, one thing too is I guess everyone was in uproar about his skinny jeans. But then everyone thought he looked better the next week. He was wearing skinny jeans though, he he's only worn skinny jeans. So I know how people think he looked better. Maybe it was just more. So the jackets in James. But I I wanna ask you Wade this question because I don't remember but teach to ever being a big box office draw. So I I don't know that. I I think he's trying to be. How do I say I think they're trying to show him as being a big act from the past? But then they're going to transit transition that into being he's a big movie star with the biggest movie of whatever it comes out by the summer. I would think right. Biggest movie of the summer coming out. And he's got a lead role. Or I don't know what role. He hasn't it and kind makes people believe he's on the level of the rock because they want to be able to have people tune in and go, okay. That's just like the rock. So we're good. You know, 'cause a lot of casual fans will tune in for the rock. But if you make them believe we've got him. It's just not him then you'll tune in. So I don't remember him ever being that you draw. I don't I don't understand the money that they're giving him. Because what are they what are they anticipated him bringing to the table outside of maybe Hollywood is once that movie comes out when you know, access Hollywood or whatever. Going in and the guardians of the galaxy movie coming out in three weeks and one of the stars. Dave Batista's the WW champion. But what was the question? Well, Batista doesn't feel like he can live up to the rock. And I I agree. I think the taste is really good at, sir. I think Batista is much better being a Hilton a baby face first of all, and that's part of the challenge and second of all he's coming back in a bad situation. And I I talked about this on the VIP side of things that the teachers a little disgruntled already that certain things that were promised to seem to be up for grabs or being changed or being open to being changed. And and you know, he he might be feeling like he's already being second-guessed, but he was thrown into a bad situation. Which is the triumphant return of Batista and management didn't do enough to quell the desire to see Daniel, Bryan. And it kind of ruined Batista in his, you know, in his, you know, great comeback. I think they thought as a legacy star gone for three and a half years. The perception among the fans who watched Batista on top for several years would be this guy's huge star because to them he was because he was on top. And they were hoping that he would be seen more as worldly coming back and. And welcome back. We have great memories you when I was five years or six years younger. It just hasn't happened. And I think there's been some lousy booking. But you know, he could've he could've walked out a little bit less arrogantly and a little and been given a little bit more material to work with where he carries himself like a star. But he actually connected with fans again. And I think he just they forgot to do that. And he forgot to do that. Which is you know. Hey, it's great to be back. Not just come back wearing sunglasses and look too cool for school. Yeah. I think. I always hate giving my opinion because I feel like I could be one hundred percent wrong. And I don't like, you know, putting perception out of people that I'm not communicating with on a daily basis 'cause I like Dave I was there and I'm not saying I don't like him. But I don't think people want to nobody likes a guy who walks around, you know, with their nose up. I think that that's I think he was so candid up like he came out almost going here. I am everybody. I came back. You're welcome. And I think that's the image that he gave when he came back. And I think everyone kind of looked at it. It was like dude we like we kind of weren't even that into you when you were here before like, yeah, you're you're you're cool. But you weren't sitting the house on fire last time you were here. So cool. We're glad you're back. But you know, we kinda got her own guys. Now, we we got park. Got Brian in like, and we've kind of been cheering these guys on and hoping that we can finally get these guys there, and you're just gonna take it. No. Now, we're turning against you. And in there could be an issue to where they see him as your pale version of the rock or I didn't like when rocking back. We certainly don't like you coming back and take and Daniel Browns made of it. You know, I have a friend to where if you try to act like somebody else that he likes like four example like you just said if Teesta came back trying to act and look like the rock, which you kind of did you're going to have those vans that go. Okay. You automatically lose credibility. Because dude, you're not the rock come back and beat but Teesta if you're gonna come back and and say, I'm this. I'm this guy who went into MA, and I train, you know, with the gray season this, and that why don't you come back in and be that guy that you'll like brought came back, and you I'm going to I wanna make money off of this box office dog from the US. See he came back and looked like he was fighting in the USC. And I think but teach the needed to come out and present himself that way opposed to go. Hey last year at this time, you're looking at a guy that kind of look and acted like me, and I'm just going to be not as good as him. So you know, everyone army. No. Yup. Yup. Agreed. John. Thank you so much. We cover tons of territory. Is there any topic? 'cause we've been on for over two hours. Now is there anything that? We wanted to hit on that we enter you definitely wanted to touch on that we didn't. I think for the most part we kind of we kinda hit on everything. I mean, did we get to everything that you wanted to talk about? Well, I mean, we could do three more hours before I'd run out of things that I think are interesting to talk about it's been that kind of weak. You know, Rome do how about how about a couple of rapid-fire short answers. You believe Roman reigns is is on the fast track. And we'll succeed. Yeah. I love Roman reigns. My fear is if they're going to turn them baby face, and they don't know how to do a proper bad ass baby face. And I think he needs to be an absolute bad ass. So I think as long as he stays he'll and does what he's doing. Now, you'll be great. And I think that's where they're gonna fail with him. And I hope I'm wrong. 'cause I I'm a big fan of his why are you big fan? And I say that was euroscepticism. I just want some some details to to add to the number one. I'm you're watching wrestling. So you're watching two guys fight to see who the better fighter is. I mean, that's the story being told, and you have the little other, you know, McMahon's and whatever. But that's the way. I look at wrestling always have since I was a kid, and he looks like a guy who belongs number one. And I believe him. I believe that guy is going to step in that ring, and he can hurt. It somebody and he's being presented that way. And as a heel. If I was a kid I am scared blank. You know, using an obscenity there that he is going to take down my guy. John CNN, maybe even hinted that I mean, he got out of the SPF and whatever else you done. I also like that. He's like I liked what he did when he he caught his his forearm before he did the superman punch little things like that. Can make me from going. I kinda liked this guy to go. That's my favorite guy. It's just he he just looks the part. He plays the part. He I wished I can really break down the psychology of why like this guy. But sometimes there is no answer for that. I can just tell you. I'm tuning in to watch something. And that guy fits exactly what I'm looking for when I turn on that product. Yup. And to an extent, you know, who does too for me as Ambrose in a very different way. But same level of access. Exactly. You know, one thing I want to to bring up. I think was did you did you listen to Steve Austin podcasts all of them. I've been listening to all of them. So it depends on what twenty about people. I remember the uproar Royal rumble, and I told people you guys need to listen to part two of the stone cold podcasts when he had a Roddy piper on the second and he. He came on support to the interview. And he told the story very similar to what's happening. Daniel Bryan right now where Jimmy Snuka was getting so hot that whole Cogan went into Vince his office and says how about I just write this guy's coat-tails. So Vince was like let me take care of it. And so they go to Madison Square Garden, and they do a cage match with Don Morocco. And all. Jimmy Snuka goes to the top rope any hits the the Superfly splash, and Don Rocco kicked out and wins the Mexican, and basically they wanted to cool him down and put the image in the eyes of the fans that hey, you're getting behind this guy. But he's not what you think he is. And I put that on Twitter, everyone should listen to that. Because right now, I think during the break Wyatt match. I said, I bet you Brian's gonna lose this match. And and he won't win the rumble. I thought he would go into it. And I said he's gonna get Jimmy Snuka tonight. They're going to say, no Bray, Wyatt is the guy and he's going to go to the rumble any gonna fail you. And you can't it's it's not it's not the same landscape as it was back, then where you know, it was perceived as being real a real earth. So you kinda go, okay. I guess Jimmy Chinook is not as great as we thought. He was a little bit different today. But I felt like. Like that same mentality was being used. I don't want to say against but towards Brian. Let's do what we did to Jimmy Snuka. He's getting too hot and cool him off. Yup. That's one thing. I did want to know. That's that's a really good antidote. And I haven't made it through the whole Roddy piper interview. I mean, it's been really enjoyable hearing those especially 'cause they had really crossed paths before. So it's like these two iconic figures like saying, you know, Roddy going to Steve, hey, it's kind of weird we've never really talked. And it's just crazy. So to be able to just like sit sit at the bar with them in east drop is what that show sounds like. It's really, right. Yeah. Yeah. That's the only thing I wanted to bring up because I think I think people were searching for a reason why this was happening. And I think that gave the best perspective as to what they're trying to do Daniel, Bryan. And I think that it failed. And now they're gonna go. Okay. Okay. Okay. Let's give them what they want. Yeah. Yup. Quick answer on Shane shameless has come back. Do you think has chance to kind of re re redefine themselves? I I really don't and. When I was watching the rumble and his music came on. I was hoping that he'd be I I don't wanna say repackage, but something different, you know. And I don't. You could tell me if I'm wrong because I wasn't watching every single week. I don't really feel like he's caught on. I when I was there. He was a heel and gave him a WW title. And I think they'd like he wasn't my first choice. But I was kinda glad that we did it, but I feel as a baby face. He just not. I don't see him as a top guy. And I would have liked to have seen him be a little bit less. I can't even do the accent. I'm sure you can but like a little less. Shame Assi be a little bit more of a whatever it may be. I wouldn't know what to do with them off top my head. So I'm not enthusiastic about the about him or his return. And I think that when you had said earlier that shame is staking punk spot. I think at the very bad place to put him because people are seeing that as punks fight. And if he's just going to be inserted into punks fight. It's going to be really. Bad for shame because people don't want shame. As to be in that position, not the position. But in punk position, right? Yup. I know that that is not an envious spot. It's kind of what the Teesta is dealing with with Daniel, Bryan. And if that's where shameless is you know, that that does that can create an issue at a less serious, finally rush. You wanna go about five more minutes? We can do that. Okay. Oh, I know we had we had a reader Senden in an anecdote from this weekend on pay per view where Michael Cole entered an elevator with him and his friend to adults to fathers with two six year old kids a boy and a girl and they're like, oh, hi Michael Cole. And he said without me without the censorship. I'm about to do man. It's F in cold outside right in front of the two six year olds. And and then he said he's there was another anecdote to that Email to the follow up. And and it was just like my coach just like. Just this comp-. I like a dick or a dork or do we or I don't even know what what is cold like outside of the ring? 'cause I've heard a few stories like this. I saw him the last time I saw him outside of the ring. He was wearing a baseball cap turned three quarters of the way sideways at you know, one AM which OSH Matthews. He looked like he had been drinking. He certainly was acting like he had been drinking, and you would have thought he was Justin Bieber about to go drag racing. I what what's the deal with Michael Cole like give us some insight into his personality as you experienced it. Okay. I'm gonna say this harshly, and I I consider myself in there. So I'm not I'm not trying to talk down to a group of people. I just think this is the best way for me to put it when you have a bunch of dorks hanging out with a bunch of dorks. You start thinking, you're cool. So when one door starts kind of being like the guy who can you know, whether it's fully or. Control or in situation, I've been here forever. And I can talk sh the crap to a new writer that comes in or whatever it may be now, I'm the cool guy because this guy ain't saying anything back to me. And look I'm friends with the with Roman reigns. Me and him got a drink. I'm cool, and he starts believing. He's cool and in that backstage element or sitting at the bar with Josh Matthews or whoever else he probably is. But he has no clue. Exactly like to what you said about the hat's what his actual images. He's become cool amongst the doors for so long that he actually believes he's cool. And I think that he thought he was being a bad ass by going. It's s cold outside or tilting. His I mean. I live in California. So when I see but Thiessen and skinny jeans that spits normal out here like when he came out. And then all of a sudden it was like, oh my gosh. She's wardrobe. I was going I don't get it. What was wrong with his wardrobe? I think reaction, but I was paying I was typing up being super close attention. But I thought he dressed like a star trying to a guy trying to look like he was a star. What I think people wanted him to be a little bit more just kinda rugged in every day and not a guy who's Mr. Hollywood, suddenly and I get that production. But he is he's Mr. Hollywood now. I know. Yeah. But but point being is that, you know. Yeah. But she's been might have looked stupid. I don't think he did. Because again, I see that every day. But that did there's at least me who goes no I've seen him. I've seen people wear that. So like Teesta might look stupid to you. But he looks okay. To me. Michael Cole tilting his hat like that just looks like an idiot to everybody who's so clueless about his level of coolness or toughness. That it's just and I didn't have a problem with them. I never talked to them hung out with them because I didn't like the way he acted and treated people where I I don't think that you should take advantage of a position where someone comes in. When I first got there. I didn't say a word I listened to everything and I didn't wanna say the wrong thing to the wrong person. I wanted to kind of survey the entire situation, and then go okay now, I know when to speak how to speak who to speak to who not to say this too. And I just felt like you got this guy. Michael Cole comes in. And throws a jab at somebody. And it's like who do you think you are like so he rubbed me the wrong way from the beginning. So you saying that like it pisses me off. So I don't like the guy. I don't I don't like dislike him as a person. I from what I had with him as far as interactions. I'm not a fan of his so sorry. I didn't mean to say I don't like him. Yeah. No. It's good insight. I mean, that's and it's interesting into the world. What makes people act the way? That they do in that kind of bubble it. It's like it's like a college campus. But it it's a traveling college campus. Yeah. You know, just kind of immersed in that world. And if you're a big fish in a little pond that Tom travels, but once you get outside of the conference a playing your role on TV as the face of the company, you're yeah. Yeah. I had a drink with Roman reigns. So now, I'm cool, and I'm going to act like it, and there's little adrenaline rush in. It might explain why Cole would be a different person on the roads. And maybe even at home with his family. Well, you know, there's like those guys, and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. But I can tell you that like those guys that dress up in like a movie role models where there was like they're playing like mediaeval times things and hitting each other with swords and acting like they were killing each other those people hang out with one another and in that group of people one of them thinks he's a bad ass because he knows how to fake kill someone with a fake spill. And then there's another guy who's like all my jokes are funny. I'm the coolest guy in this group. And in that group. He's cool. So I don't I I don't discourage Michael Cole for thinking the way that he does. He's just has no. Clue what he would be like taking out of that study. Yes. Well, put very good. All right. Cool. Well, we made it the two hours. I think that's not a record for us, obviously because at the torch talks, but maybe a record for the live cast. So what I'm glad yet extra time this week. 'cause there was so much to talk about and it was cool to to tap you for some thoughts on some other things that aren't seeing pumpkin Dana O'Brien related to. Sure. Yeah. Man, have me back anytime you want. Excellent. Thank you very much. Thanks, VIP members. Your support also thinks my guess, John Marini and without any more delay. Wade Keller thinking you and signing off. If you shop at Amazon, I have request when you shop at Amazon, don't go to Emma, Zahn dot com. That sounds weird. How you gonna shop at Amazon if you don't go there. 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