#476 Alistair Overeem, Garry Tonon, Jack Hermansson
You're listening to Knox media law. Gas network. It is Monday, April eighth two thousand nineteen and this is the enemy our right here on enemy fighting dot com. Thank you guys so much for joining me, I greatly. Appreciate it. My name is Lou Thomas. I am the host of this program. Let's see what we have in store for you guys today. A trio of guests. Let's see we'll start with Jack Hermansen. He just beat David branch. And I was gonna turn right around and face Dockery. Soza UFC four Lauderdale. We'll catch up with him at one o'clock sitting right here in studio fresh off of his victory at one new era. Gary Tonen will join us. And then the end about two o'clock, we'll be joined by Alastair over him who previews he's in the main event against lexie Olympic. You've see Saint Petersburg was supposed by Volkov. And then it will. All right. So those will be our guest. Plus, you'll be my guest not one but two different ways. We'll take your tweets during around of tweets using the hashtag the hour. Keep sending them we always appreciate it. When you do then. The end of the show will do the sound off where you can call in eight four four eight six six two four six eight international callers may call the number or you may Email voicemail clip of the hour at vox media dot com. All right. Hope everyone had a great weekend. I mostly did the baby will be here any day now. So I'm kind of just getting all my baby stuff in a row. I know we gotta get situated city aided do around of tweets still around the tweets. Era, go. All right. Look, do you think be KFC has something here or will the novelty where off if you were ESPN, plus design you have five pass would you consider signing deal to take the org off of paper view. I don't know that they're much of a threat on paper view, if I can be candid with you. I don't think that's all that accurate. But are they some kind of a threat? I don't know to me they're not a threat, but they would be really helpful to a burgeoning streaming service to fill in the gaps of what they don't have. I think the issue still is do folks if we could turn my headphones little bit. It'd be great to is folks. Do they trust it? Remember, it's only legal in a handful of states if that, and I'll be honest men, did you see the faces of night and low ball after the contest do their head tons of cuts. Everyone's like knuckles make it safer maybe in terms of head trauma. Although that remains to be seen. But there might be other costs associated with namely. Not limited to facial lacerations. And that's not the end of the world. But it is a hard thing for people to accept if they've already got some trepidation about it. So we'll see the novelty wears off it will depend on if they can get legalized, and if they can make any names next. If max wins and vacates will we see Aldo fighting for the title. And what would it mean for his legacy to hold the belt for third time? It would still I still think he's the best way to all time just giving with your -ccomplish there. We'll see if he fights UFC two thirty seven, but okay, assuming he ends up fighting for third time. Yeah. It would only solidify his his reign. It would only solidify his place as a all-time. Great featherweight next. And that's not a great answer. How will Artem in nights? Record. Be counted in became a be will count on the professional boxing record or became its own sport with his own records, Artem one. Oh. Well, you can thirty box in that sports. I don't think it's a professional boxing record. I think it's separate. It's got to be its own thing. I don't know that for a fact a look into. But like, Eddie Bravo. But I'm pretty certain that does not count on your boxing record next. While interim belt suck it opens up some midway possibilities. What combo of Whitaker gassed them out? Yeah. And some he gets past Hermansen jock. Ray gets you the most excited as a matchup. Gotta be. We'll look any of them are pretty great. If you can be be honest about it. But for me, personally, Whitaker versus oughta Sonya is the one it's got the regional bragging rights, which are kind of awesome. Good to see that part of the world produced some serious talent as they have. I mean, they already have. But you know, even further escalation would be great. You guys know a big believer. Not assign yet everybody is a big believer in Whitaker at this point and got two different styles to different experiences. Two different ways of winning gasoline to like, I don't wanna I don't wanna not count them in. But you are seeing gas jock array fight, I will say outta Sonya. And Jacques Ray makes for an interesting test case because of the ground issues involved out of sinus stove is very much defensive grappling game. And we need to see his takedown offense. At this point. But we know how it occurred in gasoline of handled it next. Hello, luke. Would you ever consider attending wrestlemainia? If it came to your city. I'd rather get Bola legitimately. You should see all of the accounts. And muted words, I haven't Twitter. So I don't have to have that infestation raining upon me and polluting my life. So no, it's not I watched wrestlemainia last year. I was just a bit as a gag on my YouTube channel on couldn't believe how dumb it was. I mean, I know everybody loves it. It's fine. If you like it keep on liking it not for me next. Leukine Danny please discuss the topic of over saturation. What is too little too much? And how much of it is best for the sport. Also, maybe in what ways the you have C might change if endeavor goes public. I love all the well, these are flecked enormous questions that don't have time to answer for the second part. But the first part all answer the over saturation question is a function of to what extent is there commercial appetite mixed with what are your long-term global ambitions mixed with how much star power. Do you have to power the amount of content that you have? And so if there's a lot of demand for content, you still don't want to give into all of it. You wanna leave a little bit out there? So you can have it sustained over time. It's a function of how much star power you have. And it's also function of what kind of global infrastructure, you have it's a complicated answer, there's never one set number. Although I think it's probably closer to shows in the thirty range than the forty range next. Thoughts around Madrid should go after the summer as art Cardi Senate for Danny do you think Greece been leaving Greece been sucks ass and realme dribble with five hundred and fifty million euro, they have they're going to get there. They're definitely going to get as are they might pocked. But if they get in, but I want everyone who watches this show in Europe to know something who's a soccer fan if Real Madrid get Imbaba. I am going to be even more insufferable about that team than I already am. I want everyone to know. And I want to be very clear about that. All right. All right. Let's do this. Now, I believe we have him on Skype. This guy had a great win a great win over David branch super-quick, and then speaking of super-quick turns right around and it's going fight jock array at USC Fort Lauderdale. Let's talk to the man now, it's Jack the joker Hermansen areas hijack. Good now, where where do you talk to us today from where are you? Those little Norway. Tell me about Oslo Norway. I know nothing about it. What's it like? Verbiage city about the. Five hundred thousand. Let's here, and yeah, you know, I think everything that we got on a small surface. That's the all's boys. What's the weather like there right now? Not too bad. Actually, you know, maybe ten tend to be celsius. It's it's pretty cold pretty cold. Yeah. You know here in the awaits is really, Nicole. But the hair in southern wait somebody my solid. We don't complain. I'm assuming I've just the first time I've ever talked to you. So I really appreciate you coming on the show. I'm assuming you've got the joker nickname because you have a nice big smile. Yeah. It's this about it. That's why who gave it to you. It was a couple of friends at school. This topic. Gold Minhaj ochre goes. Bye bye bye mind. It looks like the joker from the Batman. And then at the way, some people shouted the joker. So just okay. Let's go with the joke that have you ever wanted to like come out to the way ends with like a joker face paint or anything like that. Now that's too much for me. All right. Did you by the way? Did you see the new trailer for the movie with Joaquin Phoenix playing the joker? No, I haven't. Pretty good. You gotta check it out. They shouldn't they should have cast you, I guess we'll have to settle for walk in Phoenix. Yeah. No. All right. First of all understand something. So you're half Swedish half. Norwegian is that the idea. Within us that I'm on Swedish, I'm actually half German. But the I'm born and raised this. We lived in Sweden flora twenty years nineteen years, then I moved to Norway, and I've been here for about ten years now. So the thing is that you know, I wanna represent Sweden because his my birth country and the grew up there, but I also wanna represent because this is rather developed my maker. How'd you end up in Norway? When I will finish school. It was really hard to to get a job. So there were a lot of Swedish immigrants to Norway. So I'll just want them go over here to end the looking for a job. What is the dominant? What is how similar are Swedish Norwegian has languages. At British Norwegian on the stand. Swedish very well. But the Swedish in people that is the region that will. Spanish portuguese. Yeah. Something like that. Okay. All right. So let's talk about your last win fighting David branch. Now that was a hell of a guillotine. We'll talk about how you didn't just a second. What was the game plan for him? I wanted to go in there in a high push forward and that make a lot of things happening. You know, I have good commissioning sano that if I could push to the high base, and the may make things happen the to Maya voltage, and should I get another finish? I'll take that. But the I know that the have a high pace is gonna go to my bumping than it around. So that was basically made by Soham up Jim sale's gonna take now how okay the guillotine you little you were going for the back. And then you switched your grips and you sit for a same side arm in guillotine. Was that instinct call or is that something you hit in practice? A lot. Now, especially lately, I've been hitting a looks like all the time with this. So that's one things now that I do and I'm very confident in it. Then I knew that the if I got my hands together, I'll get it. So when a soda I've been tested can you talk to me about the finish. I've I've got a little bit of training and background. But that that particular I've never really done a whole lot with when you have the arm on the same side are useless with a normal guillotine if I'm choking with my left. I wanna be on my left hip is at the same thing. Do you want to have the same hip angled or how is the finish work? No in this one. I prefer to be a bit more flat than I should do with the allegation and instead cracked down like. I'm pulling towards the side. So I wanna pull him towards my father where he showed since out with his arm and my arm on dollars sides, some type of blood show go outside so as heads. So I'm not pulling towards me and the LA of other. So it's almost like a reverse headed arm. Triangle? Yep. That's about something like that. Yeah. So the trickery comes because they think you're taking the back. And then you get how did you like when you went for it, any doubt in your mind that he was going to tap? I was humming. All right. Very good. Did you do with bonus money to the? Just put into the side. I'm gonna I'm gonna try to save a little bit to get the. Some somewhere. Place to live, you know, as a for house. That's my plan. So now, I'm just renting a small apartment. The low wanna get the big house a little bit outside of that said, that's my dream. That's what on saving for Oslo expensive. Oh, it's the most expensive in the world. You know, it's so. Crazy. Geez. All right. I gotta go to Oslo. I've heard good things. But I don't I didn't know is that expensive. You better bring. How much how much does a meal? Mcdonald's cost. Let's see. I don't eat too much. But. I guess it's. I would guess about full-sized meal would be about fifteen fifteen dollars are. I'm not sure. But like like sheep thing you can get. Like three times the actual price. Okay. Fair enough arts. Let's transition. Now, they offered you this fight against jock array how did it come down because you just beat branch? But I guess you are healthy. Right. You dispatch with him in short order. You were ready to rock. Yeah. You know, I didn't have state when I got the unity. Now's just like this do this. You know, I will to fight this jacker for a long time. You know, when I want to beat the best in the division. So, you know, you gotta take like this send my buddies fine. So now is just a ritual Goosen that and get a dump. Now, you're a guy who likes to operate on the ground. You're going not to say you can't do other things, but your record does speak to that. You're gonna begins the guy who's got some of the best ground game in the middleweight division. So let's just ask plainly. Do you intend to challenge him in that particular department? I'm sure. I'm not afraid to go. Yeah. You know, I'll take him down and. He's he hasn't really good. But I have a really good the medicine for that in invest the best ground bombing the world. And you know, it doesn't matter who you are. If you're tasting of these fists yourself, not that good only let me ask you do you feel like ground and pound not merely the middle division. But in enemy, generally, there are some people like you Jeremy Stevens, I think has really good ground pound to some people have really good ground upon. But I kind of feel like it's a bit of a lost. Art. Do you agree? Yeah. It is. And that it's you know, the thing is that the old old school upon doesn't work today. Invest why it's has been pushed aside a little bit in no before back in the days before everybody was trying to get people usually using their jitsu, and they're closed guard and back then people posted up, you know, and the with the. Yeah. Posted up after heavy punches. But if you do that today people just back feats feet in moment. So what you need to be good at is to control the person about and the keep him down and keep it from not standing up at the same time as you got to create some distance embalmed embeds much shorter. So it's it's a really hard thing and you need to drill. It needs to be several steps. Info Ponant wilty he will do to Mabel to kept rice. And and find bills punches who else is good at ground abound. I think cubby is number two. And after me, the he's extremely goats at the controlling, but his so tied. So he doesn't get a lot of leverage empower, but he makes up for it in in volume and pressure, you know, related like, whereas only opponents about the he's also read amigo that it's and I think so. Drake's from him as well. When I when I got this. When you started getting really good at may. Did you set out to be really good at ground and pound or one of those things? Whereas one day, your coaches in your training partners were like, yo your ground pounds. Really good. Yeah. You know? My one of my coaches back here back in the days was Joachim Hansen and for being like champion. Yeah. And he was the and we have a lot of ground with him. So that's where it started. And the then I had some really really good grappler at the gym. And I, you know, had a hard time. I'm hanging with them ended. That department, but when I started to let punches so to be more successful, and I just growing fund away. Then started to put my don't seem to it than the and the research into it than there might my dream send them just that emissions into being a good. Do you find shock array as talented as he is do you think his age is a factor in whether or not, you know, he will compete at the highest level. Is still I can't amazing the goods abbot, of course, is probably passes physical prime. That's why I think I expected he's going to be as good as ever in. Our this is gonna be his best shape ever much. Are let's talk about the top of your division. Right. So you've got a title on the line this weekend. Kelvin gasline ticket on Israel out of Sonya. Tell me Mr. joker who do you think is gonna win that one? You know, it's so easy to always underestimate Calvin guest Leumi so goes. But, but it's hard to see how he's gonna get in side of the extreme range about this that the on as he has such the rain showers, and the those long long arms on Caixa long legs. It's gonna be hard to forget them to to get in there. But I'm thinking that the is gonna get it on points or can't will be in this came out. No wrestling involved. You know, Kevin has wrestling. But the user to. Now as as I this record these days. So I think. Vici there. And then let's say, you're right. Let's say Israel oughta you wins. What about Assad versus Whitaker? Oh. You know, he's the he's the best. I I really believe that saw I think he will get. Let's say I'm I'm not saying I disagree. But let's play as we say here in America devil's advocate. Let's say I disagreed convinced me that Whitaker's better. Yeah. His work. He's way closing in this status and putting together come nations, I think he will be limited to quick on. I think it's gonna be hard frame to to keep him at this sense. I think it went to has. I think it went to. Good enough setups in techniques such variation. I think it will find it. And the he's such a teller jet fighters, welcome. Oh, and many many people I think they will get mesmerized them. They look at us on weird movement than so, but with has a mind of stealing is so hard to get into his head that he can see like the Romero five always keeps focused throughout the fights. I just believing that guy. I think he'll pretty compelling case. Now, what's interesting is your ranked tenth year now inside the top ten of middleweights in the world, Shaq arrays at three. So here's how it goes. Number one is the champs doesn't count as a contender. One is Romero who you're that's the spot you're taking and then for this fight, and then two is rock hold who's up away class three Jacques array fours, gasoline five is out of Sonya. So wait a second. Now, if you win this fight where do you think that puts you in this division? I think what's top division. You know? I hope it do, and you know. We will see about. Why of course, and the guest gonna fight than that we probably will fight which when he gets healthy. But that we will see if if I can get the five or if maybe maybe they would put together polical stand Ramiro for five, and then the way will fight me. And then when there will be fighting type of that will be possible. But no matter what not far away at all. Now, Jerry clubs. That's what so great for this. Let me ask you. I read about something. Do you watch a lot of we'll probably don't watch a lot. But I'm sure you've watched at some point your life some Norwegian television, right? Yeah. Okay. Is it true? I heard about this. Is it true that Norway y'all watch? Something called slow TV which is like just a camera over like a river as a boat moves forward for like four or five hours. I've never heard of never heard a slow TV. I haven't buddy of mine went to Norway and told me, it's a real thing. Yeah. Look into that. Because I heard all right. Maybe these are fake news. I don't know. I heard I had heard it was true. By the way, you ever been to Florida. You must have been a Florida before right? Yeah. I have been in the Orlando walls. I'm sorry to hear that Florida is the worst representation of America. All right. It's no, it's no Norway. Trust me. It's not even L Bainian. All right, man. You got you got a great story. You got a great nickname, a great smile. And I look forward to senior fight and you have four Lauderdale main event. Can't wait. Thank you so much. Thank you. Having me catch up on that slow TV too. Don't miss out on that. Jack Hermansen what a guy that was cool. 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I can't see anything. There is. Hey Loria gonna be here. We've talked is the first time we've talked in person. How are you doing Wellman pretty excited? I'm fat and happy right now. This is relatively fast food. I got back up to about one eighty five. Now, I'm about one seventy five so that fattening more. But after you're fighting one five. Yeah. Probably within the first three days. She's. Just coming down with his burgers eating over and over and over again. I mean, we had like a vacation thing and cat afterwards. So just like eating eating constantly so to this seminar, you came to my I can't train and more because I'm too old. And getting a kid. It was a lot of people train. Let me ask you this after training session. Just a regular one fight. Whatever. How do you feel feel feel good after interesting? So when I first started I would say for the first few years, I would just physically exhausted. But as I got better and better, I would say probably somewhere around year five years six training sessions got much more efficient. So I feel like I don't expend as much strengthen energy. So I usually feel pretty good after a sparring session. And because you're getting hit a little different sparring session almost every time I'm very physically exhausted. So it's probably a combination of being not very efficient because I'm not great at it yet. And the fact that you're I mean, even if you are good more than likely getting hit a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. I I can't shoot him work because I just got injure all the time, and I always felt bad after training. But I remember you do one of your side tend to when you're seminars. It was the best seminar. I've ever talked thanking on leg locks which really used as my reference point for just about everything I know again, not much, but it was really phenomenal. So want to tell you that face. All right. So you had a big fight, man. Yeah. What about according to plan? Yeah. So this fight. I really didn't want to take any chances. I looked at this fight as a big threat because he had knocked people out before I hadn't had any opponents that were big knockout threatened, maybe TKO, but that didn't really see that before. So I was a little bit more comfortable, my previous fights this fight. I just kind of felt like between the fact that I was fighting somebody more dangerous, and the fact that was such a huge card their first card in Japan. There had to meet your Johnson and Eddie Alvarez on their yachts, and CLYDE all these amazing guys. I just really wanted to make sure that I made a statement as best as I possibly could you know, in front of all is that we're watching because I knew this probably one of the biggest cards that that one will probably ever put on. So. Yeah. I mean, it went about as good as it could. I didn't get hit much. I hit the other guy a lot a lot of damage walked away with my hand raise. And I thought it was a relatively exciting fight. And I I think is a professional mixed martial artist. Can't really hope for too much more than that. A couple couple of controversies the cell phone, the cell phone controversy, folks don't know about this. There's this sort of fake joke going around semi joke. There was something in your drawers description. It looked like cellphone. What was that? Yeah. So it definitely was a cell phone. You know, I had a girlfriend. She's now my ex at the time, and she got the Japan. And she was like, you know, Gary, I feel like you're really distant you're not giving me enough attention. So you know, I wanted to make sure that she was a first person I called right after the fight was over my back in the draw shrink. So I pull it out after the fight up super excited wanted to tell her that I was gonna win and I won. And then this guy answered the phone said his name was Dylan and. And you know, what I just had to end it right there. I'll just take that as a lesson. You know, my fellow fighters and martial artists that like, you know, if your girlfriend is messaging you leading up to a fight or something and she's being a distraction. She's not being supportive and constantly trying to take away from you drawing attention to her. She could just be talking to some dude named Dylan scenes when you're not there. Anyway. Don't take too much stock into it. So since you run it up. We'll get into it. You know? It's funny man, I interviewed Dylan Davis. He must have still been a Brown belt at Marcelo's at the time. I was doing an article before I had the show doing article for this site on how the guillotine had changed Chesham every years and years and years ago, we're gonna have the same guillotine kind of fade it, and then it got good again. Yeah. And I was asking for his opinion on who was good at it. He actually had some really good insight. And then this whole Conor McGregor thing happened. And you guys used to have beef back in the day to time ago. I saw you guys tournaments kind of those face a little bit. What would you say? The state of your rivalry with Dylan men. I mean, we're to completely suffered organizations right now, two different weight classes. Relatively close. So I mean, it will definitely see each other at certain occasions like he was Kasai Kasai. Although to be fair is sweeping in the back for most of Kasai because I'm so jet lagged right now from traveling, but. Yeah. I don't really have much of a problem. I mean, it's whatever the beef was over. No. I mean, it's just he's not really like you said like we live in proximity. We train in proximity to one another. But other than that. I mean, there's really no I don't really harbor any like negative emotions. I mean, I'm just focused on fighting. I mean at the end of the day I've had four fights and a little over a year. I'm gonna have five fights in a little over a year. I just signed another fight contract. That's gonna be happening relatively soon can't say when who etc by I I hate to tease, but that's just how it is. You know, until they until they make the first post, I can't say anything. But so I'm gonna have fights under a year and a half. I think and I'm just letting the fighting speak for itself. People could argue who's the best grappler anime or who's this who's that? But at the end of the day, I have I'm gonna have fights and a year and a half. At least they'll have something that people can talk about or what do you make about his whole stick? Then. I mean, I think coming because. You know, better when I interview low those many years ago never have seen this coming. I don't know if I would have said, I would see I would have seen it coming. I didn't know him. Well, enough to really say that for sure. But I will say like, you know, my only comment to it's not the way that I obviously decided to go in terms of like how I conduct myself. It's hard to argue that it's not successful for them. He's been doing very well. And you could argue maybe it's because he's with Connor and this that and the other thing, but at the end of day, huge social media following very controversial figure people talk about them. So I mean, the strategy is not working all that that. I mean, he's doing well firm self. I would argue very well from self compared to most other grapplers that are involved in mixed martial arts. However, I would say that from a standpoint of I was like the dudes best friends if I was Dylan's best friend. It would be hard. I'm not gonna name names. I don't know. Whoever is best friend is if I was his best friend. I would have trouble like like being asked questions about him. Like, you're asking me right now, the k- like what's the deal? You know, even Gordon says like crazy stuff, and he's my student. My teammate. You know, my best friend and sometimes with Gordon, I'm like, Gordon, Gordon. Video Gordon talks ship. He's injured now share show, but we had them in studio because he was promoting at the time. He was going to face. You know, look, I don't know what's going to happen in Dylan's future. But Gordon what he's talking shit is beating everybody like it's almost like Connor when he had that run through featherweight share talk your shit, man. You're the one on here just slugging Aldo to the mat and thirteen seconds. You know what I mean? So different for me. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, that's the same reason that I don't hear me like saying a lot of things yet in mixed martial arts because I've only been in the sport for such a short period of time. I've only had four fights. Yeah. I talk about that like a lot in short period of time. But I don't like, I don't know. I'm the kind of person that gets confidence from actually doing things. So if I'm gonna come out and tell you guys on the best in the world, I have to like feel like I've done something to show it or at least to prove to myself, and I don't necessarily think that I'm quite there yet to be starting to say things like that. You know, once I do feel that way. Sure. Maybe I'll come out and talk to you guys like that. But like you said it'll come from a point of a standpoint of reality, not necessarily from whatever I've built up in my in my head. Let me ask you. How did you? One of all places on the show. They just built a really good relationship with me early on. They had me out for a seminar, then they put on a grappling show, and I got to know a lot of their staff, I got to know Chatree one of their founders, and they just seem like really good people, really trustworthy. They seem like they were looking out for the athletes. I like the direction they're organization was going there. We're going to was growing it turned out that after I already signed they grew even more. So with all these new names that they're signing. And man, I just think that I think that more so than anything else. It was just the real world connection that I got from the people in new organization anybody else that had reached out to me. It was I don't know hearsay mostly just via social media or messaging and stuff. It wasn't anything personal. No real personal connection that I could attach myself to say, hey, you know, I get a general feeling about these people and how they're going to treat me and how they're going to treat my future. And I felt like one was gonna take me in a positive direction. I think so far. It was a great decision. I think it will continue to be like I said it's only gotten better than I would have even imagined. It would be when I first signed with them. For guy. It's like these guys the really good ones. Right. They the relative to NFL player they sort of toil in obscurity a little bit. And now you're with a big organization, but it's all the way across the other side of the world. Is there a part of you? That's like win. I'm I going to get some hometown fame. Yes. For the fame. But no, I understand the money comes with was part of the package deal your shirt. Well, I mean, it's it's like you said like if somebody mentions if somebody mentions my name for sure it's going to be less relevant in the US than it perhaps would be in Asia. And I live in the US. So yeah, I get what you're saying. For sure. I think that they're moving in a direction where they could perhaps have in the US. I don't really know. I can't say for sure I can't predict the future of based off of what I'm seeing the fact that they gotta deal with the fact that they signed Jay, and Eddie all these things start to kind of suggest to me that they're heading in the direction of potentially expanding their their map to not just Asia. But also US Europe all of those things in the future. They're hiring a lot of Dutch kick, boxers and things to Giorgio Petruzzi, and I could see them going into a lot of different places other than Asia in the future. I just think that's where they have their base and they're doing a good job of expanding in Asia first. And then we'll see where they go after that. So I'm pretty confident that even with one that I'll see that one day. So you're. Almost a year and a half in has gone to court. I mean, yes, you're undefeated. That's not exactly what I'm asking gone. According to plan. Yeah. Over all. I mean, the biggest things that I wanted from whatever we're going to Asian I would work with and like we said I decided on one championship. The biggest things that I wanted were people that I felt were going to look after my future. Well, that I wasn't just going to get like, you know, toss around the not cared about not taking care of. And people that we're going to give me fights that I needed experience, you know, like I needed to have fights in relatively short order twenty seven years old not to say that I'm like old or anything like that. But as far as mixed martial arts is concerned. Let's say I hadn't had any fights until thirty years old. I mean now we're talking about like, maybe the peak of mixed martial arts career career careers somewhere around mid thirties. Right. So now, I wouldn't even have my early experience until I'm in my mid thirties. So I'd end up peeking in terms of experience somewhere around late thirties possibly forty and I don't even know if I really want to be in this game that long I don't know if I really wanna fight them forty. I really just genuinely don't know if I want that. I think probably prefer to be done by thirty five to be honest. I mean as far as brain, trauma and stuff is concerned. I don't know how healthy it is to fight for that long of a career. But. That's that's kind of what I was looking for. And that's what I got. So as far as I'm concerned, I got the experience I'm being treated well, and I'm winning. So I'd say things are going and going, according to point one of the last of the Mohicans because it's still going to happen. It's always going to happen. You're going to get these people from ju jitsu matriculate over 'em may share. But a lot of the stopped. All those a Keenan Cornelius even Bush, Atias suppose as an example, these two guys you would have thought prime keyed into big. But even Nogi, right? So it's not bad. All right. Pretty good there as well. And they decided not to look back. I'm sure you have no regrets. But I wonder what you make what's that going to do to both jujitsu as a business, and what's it gonna do? Well could question I think that's what you're gonna do. I think that what you're going to see actually is as guys from jujitsu have success like myself. I think that will inspire other people from jujitsu to start moving forward in that direction as well. I. That there's been a low in guys transferring from jujitsu too, and they successfully for quite a while. So when people see other people do it, I think they'll be more guard. Tony did it. So I know it sounds weird but tone did I can do it. You know what I mean? I see I see that happening a lot in the in the near future. So I actually think that they're probably be more people coming over from from jujitsu too. Because people are going to be doing successful are going to be successful from jujitsu background. But as far as what I think about what's been going on prior to that. I mean, I think it's a shame. But at the same time, I think it's it's speaks volumes about Where'd you jitsu is now compared to where it was ten years ago or five years ago because I think another reason why it's not happening as often is because jujitsu is far more lucrative as it used to than it used to be five to ten years ago five ten years ago, you couldn't really make a living competing. Maybe if you're the top top level, you're making a living teaching a lot of seminar. Ars and stuff. But for the most part, the only hope of having a career was opening Jim, right? And that was the only way you're gonna make money. Now. These guys a lot of them. They can start websites to teach seminars they can compete for money. There's a lot more career opportunities available there. I think in the early stages not only was jujitsu more successful in MA, so people gravitated towards it. But that was where people could make a living there like, you know, what I've developed all these skills jitsu for a decade or for five years, or whatever the case may be what am I going to do with this other than teach? How else can I leverage these skills to make money in the future? And I think that's what what pulled a lot of people out of that jujitsu world into the world. And then it's a scary world. You're getting punched in the face some succeeded. Some didn't some adapted in some did not. But I think that that played into it as well. You don't do the same amount of wrestling matriculation, either couple of all Americans come through your share? But not nearly as much on that side. It's back to just before. Second mention like I'm not asking for figures. But how? Lucrative is the seminar circuit it seems to be a hard way to make a living when you're going. I'm going to Austin, I'm off to Portland, and you know, it's like hundred bucks ahead. It's seems like okay money, but then the seminars, and even if you have a bunch of people, it's not a rock concert, man. Like, what is it? Like, I still think I still think like I was saying before the there's only a certain tier of athletes that's going to be able to make a real serious living off of that. But I do I do think it's relatively lucrative. I mean, look at it like from a stand up comic standpoint, there's a lot of stand up comics out there. They do a very very similar thing. They have to travel to a lot of different places to do their stand up gigs and a lot of times not for a crazy amount of money. I would argue it's probably more lucrative than that. In terms of the amount of people that are going to be able to make make money doing it traveling and things like that. I could be wrong about that. I don't know enough about the stand up comedy circuit. I'm just saying that there there's other career fields that are very similar in. What you're saying? I think. Yeah. Is it a little bit of a hustle? Like, do you have to you have to work a little bit? You have to travel a little bitty your relationships going to be strained and things. Yep. -solutely, but I think just the possibilities there. But five ten years ago again, I don't know. I don't know if that was so much the case we'll let about this. How hard is on the body. Let me ask it this way. Again, my own personal experience. I just couldn't take it any. But then okay, I'm just average idiot. No, one cares about me. But then I look at people like the meow brothers. There's this famous picture of their fingers. Now, they're obviously a bit of an outlier. I'm not suggesting that Emma may is the same because the brain trauma, certainly is different. But higher checks kind of like, well, let me see what made me. Made me more like I mean, thirty years jitsu really good for a person. It depends. I can I can definitely say it's it's actually related to striking. Like, you just said if you take a look at most western boxers compared to Asian kick, boxers, for instance, Asian kick, boxers tend to have like two to three hundred fights by the time they end their career and most of them don't have a lot of. Serious brain trauma. You don't see nearly as many cases as western boxers. With guys are like slurring the words and they can't like function with their body properly. There's a couple reasons for that one. I think because there's the fights and things are so frequent their sparring is a little different. They don't do like crazy hard sparring the same way that western boxing does in the same way that honestly mixed martial arts in the west as well, usually trains, they trained very hard sparring, at least that's what I'm familiar with with most most camps that I've seen and then the other thing is the damage distribution over the body like, you know, they're kicking legs and things like that the body not always focusing on the head where in western boxing. It's mainly the head. Of course, there's somebody shots and stuff like that. So. Bringing it back to your other question, which was is thirty years. Jitsu good on the body similar idea. I think it really depends on the way that you train the brothers when they train when they compete take a lot of breaks. I don't know if it's a prideful thing or whatever competitive thing. I'm not really sure. But yeah, I mean, if you take a lot of breaks and training in competition like probably pretty hard on your body, and you may not function very well in the later years of your career or Richard mean, wait, physical brill-. I mean, like they like they'll let things break whether it's the ankle or or whatever the I've had matches with the beyond brothers and heard pops and things like that. And there's no tap. It's literally plenty of guys that do that a lot. And I'm not saying I've never toughed out a submission before. I don't know if I've ever let something just like completely snap. But there's some guys that do that, man. You know, I've I've matches where I need people, and they're they're completely caved in and they didn't tap. And it's so that's kind of like a personal choice. I think sometimes as to how much you're going to let you to impact your body negatively the same way that in striking. I think you can make that choice. Like am. I gonna do hard sparring four times a week or three times a week and just make every sparring session of. Or am I gonna do relatively light sparring more often, and those kind of decisions are going to play into your, you know, your longevity as far as an athlete or as far as injuries, or whatever the case may be I think there's a way to train jitsu, especially if you're going to be a recreational player where you're not taking quite as many of those injuries long-term. But I'll say it definitely took a toll on my body for sure I have a lot of long term injuries that I do or throat us. Not quite not in my hands. Anyway in my feet. My big my big toes like very separate from my other other Toews born that fat feet. So they get caught in the a lot. So they're kind of just in a constant state of swelling and pain. So yeah, I mean, I definitely have arthritis in my toes, but not really my hands my toes. I hate it. Feel awkward feels awkward from east. Sensory thing for me. Totally different gone. I can't I can't I can't mentally function. Without it. This looked serious enough. I would you know. All right. Let's talk about the equation here. Just a little bit. This is gonna sound like a silly question. But in today's I feel like it's actually quite pertinent, what are your competitive and professional ambitions? So the biggest thing is I main goal. You know, the long term goal is to become one greatest mixed. Martial artists of all time. That's just I think that going into sport like this. If that's not kind of wear your head is at and you want wanna do this like super short term. And like, I don't know if this is really the right to me. It'd be crazy to go into to fighting where like people are trying to knock my head off and not try to get some kind of grand result out of it. And just so yeah. Just one of the play around a little bit have a couple of fights. Like, that's terrifying to me, like fighting is terrifying. To me. I don't know how much I can communicate that to people like it's very scary. And the idea impossibility of getting like a lot of head trauma. We're getting Kayode in front of friends and family and things like that. It scares shit on me so on taking on that risk. But for some greater result. I really hope that I'm one of the greatest mixed martial artist. One. That's the first that would be the long term goal term though when a championship, right? And then after winning the championship focus on and this is what you see a lot of mixed. Martial arts doing right now. I'm sure many of them sometimes they have the championship or sometimes they do not after that's the case. They either go after multiple championships or they look in the direction of who is going to be the most exciting fight. Whether it's out of my division, or in my division, who's gonna be the most exciting fight that I can put myself in. So that the public goes. Oh, wow. I'd really like to see that. And you're seeing people cross all different kinds of of division sometimes jumping to divisions now to make those super fights happen where people would just be really excited, whether it stylistically whether it's because of some sort of beef, or whatever the case may be people are going out of their way now to make those fights happen. So that will be another goal of mine is to try to make those big name fights have and those exciting fights, whether it's in my way class or not. So how much consideration you must give some because the upside so much higher than to financial. I know that's not the. Key aspect of your life at this moment. It can't be your the Nessin stage chair. But at some point you're gonna turn that corner where the big checks are going to be a real possibility inevitability. Yeah. Have you have you given thought to what you want your career earnings to look like NAN? I don't have a number. I don't have a number. I think by chasing trying to be the best mixed martial arts of all time. That is what comes with it. It's like I said there's going to be some net gain from that whether it's pride, and and that sort of thing on or whatever it is. But obviously like you said additionally, the money's going to come with that. So as opposed to chasing money. Okay, for sure like I do my best to promote my cell phone social media. I recognize the fact that I'm a professional athlete. Not an amateur athlete. I'm not just out there to win. I'm also there to entertain people. So there's a lot that comes with that. Whether it be social media, whether it'd be presentation me dressing up like wolverine or something before a fight. Whatever it gets. Thank you. Whatever it is. That gets the ball rolling for fans, that's a big part of being a professional athlete and making money, etc. I understand that that kind of stuff comes with it. But at the end of the day like I don't know if I've ever seen somebody become one of the greatest of all time and not also make. Money. Right. So that's what I I'll focus my sights on that. And then let the money come. And I think that way it'll be a little less stressful to have to worry about both at the same time. You never you never gotten before. I did. But it's totally the same Horace. Yeah. Ours was was the scariest. I mean that was about as close to an EMMY fight as a person could have in a grappling match because Harris will swing at your head. He'll poke your eyes out. Like, he'll slam you tried to do to me. He'll he'll do a lot of dangerous things in the he'll try to even if he gets a submission. There's a good chance. He's not gonna let go if you. So there's a real the unlike most of the time when you compete NJIT where you usually have a choice going back to your previous question, you have a choice as to whether or not you're gonna get injured in a match with you don't necessarily have the same choice, usually it's a slow controlled break or something and I can tap. It's not so much the case. So that particular match, and you probably was the most terrifying match that I've ever had wait advantage considered like size and strength. Just the just the damaging effects of the opponent there. So so much going into that fight that made it match that made it nerve wracking for me, but much more so than any that was the closest to fighting anime that I got, but it still wasn't anything near the feeling of fighting for the first time or even the fourth time even this past one you had a certain degree into what is your coping? Mechanism. So just going back to that. So I remembered I didn't really, of course, I like I said I was anxious and and had a lot of nerves and things, but I didn't really feel it until I got onto the bus to go to the event this time the first fight I felt it when they were wrapping my hands because I never had my hand before like with the tape and everything like that does. So when the wrapping my hands, I'm like, oh, God, I have to get in the cage and fights fight a guy that's going to happen. This is Cecile in the deal right here. You know? So for whatever reason that's when the nerve set in and I was just like having a little mini panic attack. This fight. It was when I got on the bus to go to the event for whatever reason get on the bus to go to the event. I started feel a little nervous. I'm like, you know, what let me try to take my mind off things I'm going to watch some tape. This is what I usually do before my sparring sessions walked watch a little Mike Tyson. Every time I watch Mike Tyson throat punch. I'm like imagining my opponent hitting me with that punch that I'm like, all right? We ought to switch it up on my watch highlighted, Danny Bill. Kickboxer watching Danny every time. He throws a head kick. Somebody and hits him in the head. I'm like that's gonna be me. And I'm just getting worse and worse, and I just feel my heart pounding my chest. And I'm like, okay. I shut the tape off. Now, just put this down. And it wasn't until I got off the bus that I I was talking to my teammates and stuff, and I started to calm down a little bit. But that kind of having people out there that I'm very comfortable with helps me a lot. I like to keep things very light and joke around with my teammates and stuff and having John out there. Tom my training partner. Drew? It was very also my managers there Jeff and just communicating with all those guys and kind of joking around helps calm the nerves and set me more grounds me more back. What's the far stores walk me through your nerves? So so so it's funny that you mentioned that because it almost races everything like sure there's a little bit before the first couple of punches are thrown. There's a little bit of tension because you haven't actually got hit with that. Four Onslow yet. But. For me like when that bell rings? And I got the guy in front of me. I have ADHD I have trouble paying attention to things. But there's a very real fear of this dude knocking you out. So I have to have like laser focus. Right. So everything fades away. I'm not thinking about anything. I don't hear the crowd. I barely hear my coach. I see that dude in front of me. So honestly, a lot of the nerves kind of fade out and everything goes to whatever I did for training. So he threw a low kick at the beginning of the fight. And I immediately went for takeout. That was not a decision. I made I actually didn't plan on taking him down that early like in my head. I was walking myself through it. I was thinking about some different combinations. I wanted to throw this that and the other thing, and then that low kick happen body just folded and went in for a takedown, and that was just pure instinct like that's what I've been doing in training constantly. So my body said there's the opportunity to take them down. He's up on one leg. Go for the takedown. Once I got a hold on. I was like well he got up for a second. I'm like, no, no, no stay on top of this guy. Again. They weren't really decisions that I was making it was just kind of training setting in. So once it gets the actual fight. There's so much going on that. I don't I don't know how much I'm actively able to think and the anxious about the situation through to did you ever nervous. But did you ever have moments where because it just seems these days guard pulling everything so concerted with the game plan? Did you ever have moments where you went on semi autopilot like that? Yes. But you it's very different. Because jitsu there's a lot more time to think like there's a lot of periods of time where there is no action. Okay. Maybe not in my fights. But in many fights. And there you have the ability as an athlete jujitsu many times to either do things actively or do things statically to stop your opponent from really for instance, like if you really want on just not let somebody pass your guard or attack you you can just continue to palm your legs on the inside. And that kind of stalls the action, and you can give yourself a couple of seconds think if you're just not mentally with it yet. You can take that time. Right. So. So jitsu, I definitely felt some more anxiety because of the I didn't always need to do something. I could I could just keep my opponent at bay, and there was no necessarily no danger for certain periods of time in MMA. There's always danger. The only time that there's not danger in MMA, perhaps when you're in a perfectly dominant position where they can't hit you or completely away from the opponent. And there's no there's so much distance. They can't strike you those two things happen for very short. Periods of time in the sport. So it's it's rare that I get to get inside my own head. But jitsu you get inside your head sometimes. And I'd be like I like listening to my own heartbeat like while I'm holding onto somebody like all right? You really need to go to try to submit this guy. Now, you know, and I freak out a little bit. I had matches like that in the past. But and it's a little difference harder. For me to do that. I'm not gonna ask you how long are we going to be with one because everything's going? Well, so we'll just here's what it will say sure a rematch wanna see what's that? I wanna see you versus chrome Yemen. I I was dying for that before I even sign with one the first. Thing that I said was I wanted that so bad for years. I was asking for an engine, and then I kinda laid off because it was like all right? It's not going to happen. And then I saw fighting an MA, and I'm like, well, I wanna get to. I was like let me see what I can do to drum up some attention and see if I can, you know, maybe get that fight like as one of my first fights. And I was reaching out to some organizations by the time. I had already reached out. I think he had already hit already faded out of whatever I think he was in Reisen. I think he was already out of rising. I didn't know that. So I was talking with them a little bit. But it didn't really seem like that was going to happen. And now he's in the UFC. So obviously, you know, again, it's a lot of distance in terms of time as whether or not we'd be able to fight. I think the very real possibility would be more. So the grappling rematch would I like to fight him an MA shore? But people fans have to recognize when they see these cross promotional things like. One fighter in one and one fighter in UFC two realistically. See a fight like that happen. Even if all parties wanted it to happen. Just because contracts you're talking years down the line like you really are very rare for that red tape to just get cut like for any reason. It's almost impossible to do. So. I prefer to just talk about things that can really happen coulda grappling match between me and him rematch happen at any moment. There's nothing as long as the you have C says, it's okay. I know one allows me to do other other matches outside of one and they would even do the match in one. I don't know if you would let that happen. But that is something that could happen. We could have grappling match right now couldn't happen. But again, I absolute love that rematch in either grappling or it's just hard for me to talk about because I just know it's not going to happen. I was merely wished listing the shore. Also, just as you watch his fight against cancerous. Yeah. It was great actually was in. I think it was an airport at the time. I forget where I was going. Here's the thing about it. It's like, obviously his ground game and yours. I mean doesn't get a whole lot better than that. Really? He does seem to me though. So some of these guys, you know, that like so into the Gracie way care, I didn't know that I saw a whole lot that gave me some confidence about his long-term stand up could be wrong about I'm not making any bold declaration. Whereas you it's like there's a joke. Do you know BJ scout on YouTube? He jokes about it. 'cause there are people when you fight in the comment section this tone in guy, you know, maybe has to work on his ground game. But it's coming along real nice. That's like, oh, but but you certainly invested. I don't know that he again, if you take it to the floor with anybody it's going to be a hard day when he was doing that lot of Gracie stomp to cover distance. I was like, yeah. Did you see the same thing? So so I agree with you in most respects, I think even Hickson came out and said, I don't know if crawl krona's ever said this. But I think Hickson come out and said like, you know, everybody that does jitsu and they're doing an MA as going about doing things wrong way paraphrasing. I'm not one hundred percent sure about this. I think I think he has been quoted before as saying like men, they should really just focus on jujitsu. That's what made the fighters of the past great. That's what they just focused on jitsu, and they didn't really worry as much about the punching and kicking and stuff. Whether or not he's taking that strategy. I think it's pretty clear in most of his fights that that's the general idea is the use you to and not really focus on the striking aspect. We haven't gotten a real chance to see. I don't know necessarily. What it would look like I think he's been handling his fights similar to the way that I handled my last fight where it was like. All right. Let's just get the job done. But I will say I wish I wish him success in the future because anybody that comes for ju jitsu background that does may I want to see them succeed. Because for me. It's like a win for ju jitsu. It's like, yeah. You know, jujitsu does work in because there's always that argument that people throw out now because like you said less jujitsu guys or transferring may whatever all yeah, it doesn't work in a mania more. Right. So it's awesome to see a guy like him. You know, just use you win win a fight. I hope he succeeds. I hope that just like you said long-term that those striking skills do develop. So that he doesn't run into a guy like, for instance. And really struggled to put him away with just you because it's a tough guy to take down or get control of or whatever the case may be so yeah, I would I would like to see I would like to see that. If it isn't already there there kryptonite for Habib on the ground I interviewed Brian Ortega before the Holloway fight share. He seemed to think that he had the answer again as different way class to check is a good a good going. I mean, like a world class guard is that a is that a kryptonite for Habib and your mind could could be guard. Yeah. It really depends. I dunno if guard particular I think we've seen Khabib submit people before. Do I think he's capable of getting submitted by somebody who's high level submission artist? -absolutely I don't know if I'd necessarily call it a kryptonite like it's like this major hole, and he has no idea what he's doing. I don't know if I'd take that far. But I definitely would say that it's it's a way that a person could approach winning fight with Khabib. I think I think if if I was saying to myself. All right. What's what's the best ways to tackle this? This fight submission would be tie on the list. You know? I wouldn't say can't I just say to do twenty eight bama's all twenty eight or whatever it is twenty seven. There was one guy that fought off his take downs Gleason CBO. But even then you'd but he did he did he was also a weight class above and then later on ROY. And so it's like there's some dicey. This around. Oh, sure. Sure. I had his coach on last week. We asked how big you have to be defied office takedown, Luke rock old size, Jim legends. I don't really know. But it would seem to me like why waste energy trying to confront something on his terms in that way. When you can do it on yours with a short and the other thing to remember is that while you're fighting off the take down their submission opportunities. It's not it's not to say like, oh, let's just get taken down and work for my guard. Like, you're stating. Well, maybe as he's taking me down. We go for a guillotine. Maybe as he's taking me down. I go for camera. Maybe as he's trying to take me down. You know, I'm able to go after the legs. For instance, there's a lot of opportunities that I would refer to as submission wrestling. That would be there as someone's trying to take you down not necessarily long thought process of. All right. Well, I'm definitely getting taken down. What are we going to do from the guard? Right. So I think there's more opportunities associated with submissions available for a guy like that. Then just working off your back. Fighters. You really admire a fan when you watch goddamn. This guy's just or or lady absolutely definitely love could be style. I think you saw in my last fight. I've used a couple of techniques that you've seen could be using as far as single risk trapping and things like that big fan of his grapple box. I've been a big fan of Damian Maya and his work on the cage his work on getting to the back from all positions, huge fan of obvious. This is a little bias because he's on our team, but George saint-pierre as far as shoebox concerned. It's it's pretty close to unparalleled in the sport. As far as the way that he sets up take downs. So those are the kind of guys in mixed martial arts that I modeled myself after Damian for that kind of control, and that cage work same sort of thing with Khabib, and then George for the actual, let's get it to the ground sort style. And then there's as far as like striking and things are concerned integrated striking guys max Holloway. I find to be pretty intriguing got some really interesting things Israel out of Sonya. It's pretty amazing. So I mean, there's there's a lot of guys I do a lot of studying. There's definitely some names who you just shoot out. I'd be like who's that? I have to look at them. I'm not great with names. But I'm getting better as I'm studying more and more tape because most of the time when I'm watching these fights. Now, I'm not watching a fan like I used to. I'm watching is a student. So when I'm watching these fights, I'm not even necessarily paying attention to who's who or whatever the case, it'd be like all right? What's what's technique is this guy using to defeat this guy? So a lot of times it kind of slips through the cracks as to who it necessarily is. But some of those guys are so I kinda and so good at what they do it sticks. With me in the back of the head the ones that I mentioned favor, just productivity. Tichenor four an or for jujitsu pure period. Get two hundred. Hajer was definitely somebody. I looked at a lot coming through the ranks. But what I started to realize that I'm not saying that hydra doesn't have things that everybody could do, but Hajra has a very specific body type. So I believe everybody can learn from the things that hydra did for sure that I gravitated away from them as I got better because I was kind of like. This isn't exactly my body. Type. I don't really know if this is exactly what's going to work for me back when I was coming up. I watched originally Andre Galvao was in my weight class. I was a middle middleweight at the time. And then I finally stopped eating so probably at least prior tournaments, and then I started cutting down. I was I was lighter. And I started watching more the Mendez brothers. So I was big fans of them and krone actually to chrome was amazing Marcelo Garcia just when I was studying for ADC Marcello is probably one of the people that I watched the most Marcello and the Mendez brothers as far as technique was concerned Marcello watching him a lot for work and some sweeps off bounds. You just really really good all around the game. So yeah, I have a lot. It's hard. I hate favorites. Like, I don't really like to choose favorites. Even with with anything. There's I'm very much like the kinda guy that goes to a restaurant chooses the different different things. Every single time. I'm always trying new things. So everybody's I hate just as far as like when you when you look at martial arts or anything like that. I hate just looking at one person and trying to model myself off that person even in life. I think that everybody usually gets very good at certain things. And then a lot of the other things suffer or they're not very good at them. Right. Everybody. Can't be great at everything can't be perfect. So I think it's much better to look at this guy for this look at that guy for this guy as opposed to just like I'm going to model my entire game of this guy. Because now I'm just going to be a slightly crappier version of that guy more than likely that guy spent his whole life developing those skills, what are the chances that I'm going to somehow get better than that person? Was that particular skills that I'd rather try to take a little bit of what he's good at? And then a little bit. What the other guys get, you know? A couple more questions, which are you in and out or five guys all guys like one hundred percents. Thank you. Thank you, all these west coast Dullard, you gotta get the fries animal style. You gotta get the fuck out. Gotta do because it ain't as good as five. Thank you. Thank you who first of all who even puts thousand island dressing on salad. Let alone clown. French fry not even a desirable dressing to begin with. Now, we're gonna put it on French fries. And the French fries are like paper thin. It's like eating that flag. That's on like, I'm not even big fry guy. But that's a whole different story. I don't know, man. I think it's good. It's like some remarkable amazing thing that the Californians would like you to believe it is. And do I necessarily think that about five guys, I think five is pretty good too. Again. I don't I don't like the way people rave about in and out. Just like you guys talk about this. This is God's gift to burgers. And it's just not like come down. It's like a notch above McDonald's. Thank you. So happy you said that despite all the time with these clowns I'm gonna get so much craft. I hate mail from office for sure. Economic before you go the cutting process or the the way in thing that one does I wanna do a whole video on this? Because positional care I'm not in any way, suggesting that one is not telling the truth. But yet remember my position in this scenario. I'm a media guy. Yeah. The media doesn't cover the way in and they release the numbers. And so red flag goes up not saying, it's not true. But I'm on the other side looking at it. And there's no organizational transparency here. I'm going to have question. I've never asked them why they do that. It's being used to. I probably should ask them why they do that. Because I agree with you from the outside looking in. It's hard to say like it would be hard to say like, oh, they're being transparent. If like you said, they're not releasing numbers. And they're not allowing media or whatever the case may be. I'm sure they have their reasons. I I wish I could say what those reasons are. But I actually have never specifically asked. I know many other people like yourself have raised questions about that. Who knows maybe they'll answer it in further interview or something like that? I don't know if anybody's public. Acid and they deflected or if they actually tried to answer it. I'd have to research to find out, but I will say this to my knowledge. This is the way things work. We have to weigh ins and to hydration tests. Okay. So you weigh in two days before your fight. You weigh in one day before your fight along with each of those weigh ins at the same time or moments after after you weigh in or before whatever you have to take your hydration tests. Okay. And if your urine is shown to be dehydrated, the only people that would understand what I'm talking about right now is collegiate wrestlers scholastic wrestlers because they often have to do this at the beginning of the season to gauge how much they're allowed to lose during the season which way class they're able to fight in. But in one you have to do it for every fight. Whatever your waited is it has to be a hydrated, wait. So if I'm one seventy s to be a hydrated, one seventy I can't dehydrate twenty pounds and then show up. And then when I when I p my urine will show up the hydrated. They literally watch you do it. So for sure there's no no cheating. It, you know. But what I will say is you don't necessarily when I first came to them. I fought one seventy right. When I had my second fight against Rahul Rajoub. I realized that was not my weight class that dude was huge compared to me. So he was a giant. And I realized that there has to be some amount of weight that you can still pass this hydration. Because walking around like if I'm eating healthy. I'm really more like one sixty five ish, I'm really eating healthy. So I was like I'm scratching my head. I'm like, I'm like, I'm thinking I could probably find a way to get to fifty five. So what you have to do is you kind of have to you have to really drink a lot of water, and then you can do your weight cut, and you can lose some water. I don't think you can lose even I think even ten pounds of water would be that would red flag their their their hydration tests. I think somewhere between five seven pounds is probably the max that you can you can go from particular body weight and cut down from right? I don't think you can do much more than that. And actually pass their hydration. So it's all I'm saying is that based on the way that they order things you wouldn't be able to have a dude. Khabib who walks around that over two hundred pounds and fight one for the five I think that's impossible in their organization. So in some ways, it's great because now I know that I'm not gonna fight the dude as long as you know, how to how their weight cutting system works anyway because it took me two fights the figure that out. I'm not gonna fight a guy that's thirty pounds. Heavier than me even Rahul Reggie being bigger than me at one seventy. It wasn't thirty pounds bigger than me. It's like fifteen pounds bigger than maybe. Right. So having said all that. In in that way. It's good guys aren't losing these crazy amount of weight. But in the sense that you have to do it twice. I'm gonna make wait times. That's kinda rough tough to do that two times in a real. And it's a little bit of a shortened, wait cut. I can't wait cut for twelve hours because I'm gonna hydrated, right? So you can only do it in a certain short period of time. So if you're running or whatever it is you got to do it in a very short period of time over although is it safer for the athlete. Probably not losing nearly as much way less than do you. See your opponent. William do. I see. No. I think we go in one at a time. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. All I'm saying if it's good as they say, it is everyone I've ever talked to individually jer raves about it. Yeah. A little more transparency. Yeah. Yeah. Supposedly show if you miss either one the first day or the second day hydration or wait. You have to weigh in the day of the fight. So they give you three opportunities to make this work. And definitely didn't wanna weigh in the day of the fight. So. I try to make sure I nail those first two way to your class act man, and I'm really happy for your career growth. I know you came all this way with no news to share which I'm incredibly bitter about. However, when do you think you might be able to give us some information about your next fight? It's hard to say with them for. Sure. Oh, yeah. Well, let's see. Yeah. Within the month? They should have information. I would hope I hope I think it only helps them to release it within the month. So that I could start promoting this thing. But absolutely. I'd be fighting very soon. Quick turnaround time tough-guy southpaw this time, and we're going to be fighting in a ring instead of a cage have to learn how to do that. Which is interesting. So I'm a little worried about that. Because I haven't really done any training inside of a ring. Most of the I do all my training, in fact in a cage. Just simulate what I'm gonna do. They're so interesting to see over the for coming in. I really appreciate my job. Take you out. Thanks. All right. Gary Tony one of the best smart man to because he understands what burgers are about not thousand island dressing you peasants. All right. Let's do it. Now, it's time for the sound off. We'll do that. Let's do that. Brit. Mississauga? I want a little long apologized. We're going along. But it was a good combo. I was enjoying it. So there you go. It was fun where he at their time areas. Is the case? Oh, Blanco to my hot chocolate areas. He was making on Instagram yesterday. Had a little breakfast had any day now with cheese. I mean that's about as well. Here man, we bring a tear to my wife's is fun. All right. We don't have time to waste because I went a little over board with him. But let's do these calls. What do we do it? Well, it was in a busy weekend may. But like man, we've got a lot of questions and a lot of them surrounding bare knuckle, boxing, so let's go straight jump into it. Hey, look into any. This is Shaun calling from Fresno, California. Unfortunately, Luke, I checked out a big mouth strikes again. Really good song, by the way. My question is what did you think of the Artem Lubov? Jason Knight fight if you saw it and does it raise your interests that all in bareknuckle fighting? Thanks. So I did see it. I was at once entertained I was at once concerned and also a little bit horrified. There has been a lot made that bare knuckle is better for you than with the gloves. I'm not sure I believe that. I'm not sure I believe that. Now, here's what here's what I'm saying. Also, not saying it's not true Danny, but their faces were badly cut up in ways that you don't typically see I've seen every injury with MA. But there's a certain rhythm to what the injuries. Look like this seemed to be like if these guys go for five rounds. They don't get other out. Their faces are gonna be attacked by a dog, which they do how much forgot which fighter tweeted out a photo of Jason night. And right next to a photo of Chucky. Do you couldn't tell those torn apart? So that was it was. Yeah. And then you know, how much brain damage they take no one really knows. It's like do they're going through all that apparently became c is paying people more than normal. But God man, that's a hard way to make a living. That's a really hard way to make. Plus, these these are essentially the moneymakers, right? Like, if you have hand problems man that can really hinder your career, and you know, gloves, definitely. Detect that and give your hands a little bit of longevity. Whereas in bare knuckle men, some of those hands are swollen up. And you look at the way their hands are looking they're looking pretty battered. So you know, it's not only the face. But but but also these bans what did you did you like it? You know, what it was entertaining? I mean bare knuckle has been around for a little bit like I remember watching Joya BELTRAN verses Tony Lopez. Right. And man that was exciting and Casey and Esther went to that event and covered it, and I'm like, oh, this is great. But then as more events have ruled out to be honest, like it's kind of losing a little bit of interest, at least on my end because within a may you get so many different looks, right. The wrestling guy that you jitsu guy Sombo judo, all kinds of striking. Whereas this I kind of feel like it's a lot more. It's a lot of brawling men and don't don't get me wrong. I love brawl, so I love, you know, those type of wars like the Jason I in Artem Lobov. But I mean at some point he it's kinda like I'm not saying it gets old, but it's kind of repetitive. I don't know if you feel the same. It just seems like I don't know. There's this. It is what keeps me going is the creativity. This seems a little bit more one note, let's have some violence and. So again, it's like a cupcake with just the frosting, I love frosting, but what makes a cupcake work is the marriage of frosting and the spongy cake. Yeah. So I watch it. Yes. But I'm still more of a fan of that may even though it could be more boring and whatnot or have less action. So you know, some this question up I saw it. I liked it. But. I mean, I don't know. It's not really my theory also concerned about their health. Yeah. For sure. But I mean, I do say, I think I think. Actually, I'll just save my thoughts, and we'll tackle question. And then I can burn. His next. Chipper Dallas brother this Verlaine, Colin from Seattle Washington. This wanted to hear your take on the with the, you know, the bare knuckle fighting coming out, and you know, the recent five with Russian hammer and increased by your take on what does this do for a D think kind of sits back, and and raise some light on the violence or people going to be shocked by that. And just kind of lump them all into one group, or or do you think it's it's good it gives fighters another revenue stream somewhere to go. You're on a take on it. The general idea here is that. Yes, it does. Give fighters another place to go gives a certain kind of fighter. Matt Brown was suggesting that these guys were be classified IRS. I that's not an insult. That's a fair classification. So yes, it gives them defecate is a type of fighter. I mean, we've seen Chris Lieven we've seen BELTRAN was retired and coming out of its guy guys who either wash out you have C or have been retired. But still have a name, but even then like the type of fighter the brawler, obviously Demi in my is not well situated to do. Well, and became FC to your point. Yes. So look at caters to a certain kind of fighter both in the position in their career the way in which they fight. But again, we need to make sure that these guys get paid, and we need to make sure that there's proper health screenings, and we need to monitor exactly what this does to a person. Because a lot of this is uncharted territory. Said oh bare knuckle used to exist back in the day, and it did. But it hasn't really for a long time and to do it for five round. Again, two minute. Whatever it two minute. That's still a lot of brawling bare knuckle man, their hands were messed up their faces were just really bad. Let's see. Let's see how it goes. Yeah. But as far as what it does. So glad of that. He gives an outlet to you know, fighters, and paulie, gee, we had them in studio last week. And you saying he was getting paid a lot of money. Right. So it does give retired a guy an option a comeback. Also, it can produce other story lines. So, you know, I'm retired guys becoming back. That's also true. Yeah. I mean, we'll see it's all as you said on chartered territory. So. It's hard to make firm conclusions. Yeah. All right. All right now. Let's talk about the big fight coming up this weekend. Yes. From city strata this point in time, which of the main event fighters on you thirty six g consider posing a bigger threat to Cabela's title on the same lines, which of the Crimean event fighters is a west stylistic match up for our. But we didn't call. Thanks for your hard work. So we got to intern belts on the line. Right. Gas Aloom going at it without a sign. Yeah. And then Holloway going at it with poor area which two of those which which which could give the respective champion the biggest challenge. So I think people know my preferences on this one I made this point back win max decided he wanted to fight. Habib you have C two twenty three and everything apart Max's takedown defense defenses some of the best that period, maybe takes him down. He takes on everybody. Right. But the reality is the dude max Holloway has incredible takedown offensive fights days on the feet at all max Holloway sets him on fire. Meanwhile, dust Emporia has done defense as well as understanding and good ground game. But that's not where he's gonna be best able to hurt. Habib. So I'm gonna say we'll see how things goes weekend. But my haunches max Holloway. Yeah. Yeah. I think with that one is a bit of a tossup. I I'm not really sure I think both guys are elite obviously very skilled fighters, but I'm leaning more towards Holloway, given the style. But yeah, it's tough. Then on the middleweight side. I'm a little bit biased. I think I keep sleeping on Kelvin gasoline. Yeah. And I think I always have I'm not the best to give an opinion on Kelvin because I certainly respect him. But I keep misidentifying how good he is. But you guys also know how I feel about his oughta sign. Yeah. I think look the key insight to Israel sign you that nobody picks up on her talks about enough is the fainting. Those guys at city, boxing, basically believe that fainting is the key to everything and if somebody faints and the other guy doesn't or one person is better at fainting than the other one. The fainter should always win is raw to sign is one of the best fainter in the game. He really is. So to me the issue here is that I think as long as it's going to be a standup battle. He's going to be the better fainter than anyone that division. So I'm going to pick him, but Whitaker is amazing. I have been wrong about gasoline so many goddamn times. Yeah. For sure I think I'm gonna go that assign you the same because I feel like rubber Whitaker has already gotten that look in his career. He's fought, you know. I mean, you're you'll Romero twice a guy that can hold his own on the striking. But really good wrestler. Jack creek again, not exactly the same as gasoline, but similar looks whether you go out of science someone completely different new with a different style and Whitaker's not really the guy that will take you down. So he'll be fighting at a Sonya where he feels most comfortable, which is on the feet. So I'm leaning towards that assign you, but man Whitaker would occurs amazing in. So as gasoline so topic of. This is not really a question. More of a suggestion. So let's hear it, right? Right. Luke Tanner here from New Orleans. I love the show. He recent appearance on below the belt with Brandon. Shop was absolutely amazing. Love how Frank Hugh are. And I love how pragmatically you've you the world on that note left ear a similar type of interview with you and Josh Barnett on the hour just chat about life metal and philosophy. I don't know if like an hour. So I got guys. Cheers have fun. Yeah. He's a belt or built up with I've invited Josh on a he thinks I don't like him, which is not true at all. I actually like Joshua lot. I think that would have a lot of like Joshua. I once made a point about how cyborg was mistreated by a community, and I use Josh as an example to make that point. I think he thinks I don't like him not true at all. I have total respect for Josh. And as I made quite clear during his feud with you Sada, he was I made clear to note. He was totally railroaded and done wrong, which is unfortunate. But I am quite happy to see that. He is back on his feet. He apparently had a grand. Weekend in. And what do you call it all blood sport here in the city? Yes. And then he signed with belt or so he had a big weekend a big week. So yeah, he's got an open invite on the show day time. I've great respect for Josh Burnett and glad to see he's got another the war master has another chapter. Yes. Annabel through which will truly fun. There's a lot of good names. Here's a good organization. Yes. It's a good organization of your heavy with the name. Then it is. And he's still got we don't actually know how talented he is. I mean, we know is what I'm saying. What's left hasn't had a lot of wear and tear in the last couple of years. Might have even been helping. So yeah, I would see. All right now. Let's talk about your favorite topics. Okay. Step of that. Also, by the way, congrats on that interview with Brennan Shaw. Those those great stuff, you know, what man you don't get a lot of shot. Yeah. Of course him too. But mostly I should say. I was what I noticed. We know what took from the interview or the response to it. I don't think people I've been on camera for years. I kind of thought people understood me, and it turns out a lot of people just didn't realize who I was or didn't they got very well. And I guess that video went along way towards showing based on the reception of getting people seem to know who I am better now. So I'm very grateful for that. You don't get a lot of opportunities like that. And that was one of them. That was a good stuff. Right. Wrassling. I'd rather die. Luke. This is Don Don Carson from shits fill. Call him to get your opinion on wrestlemainia have a great day. I'm guessing you watch. I watched you stayed up all of none of it. Yeah. I don't care if people like it great. What do you want me to say? I mean, you know, all I'm going to do by answering. This question is make everybody who had nice things to say. After being on Brennan shops, podcast bitter at me. If y'all like professional wrestling, keep watching it. I I have tried. I have tried. It is awful. I do say, I think this is worth of Brooklyn Lessner lost. If I'm not mistaken, which could potentially set up a a comeback for him, and he's still my heart. So we'll see great. Also, I did go to a pro wrestling show on Thursday. I think our own Mark Monday drag me out there, and it was fun. It was I say the Indy. One is a lot better than what you see on TV and all that because his less acting and actually it'd be worse. That's legitimate Hubbard yours, it's actually pretty good. It's it's a show. It's it's acrobatics the guys with lettuce, and they're actually doing things that require a lot of skill and and a lot of the acting, which is horrible. It's it's all taken off. So my understanding is that the nothing, but my understanding is the indie scene right now is having something of a renaissance where it really the best professional. Wrestling doesn't really exist in the WWE again, if somebody people like man, I encourage you to keep watching. Yeah. This is a phone question. Pretty creative from this caller. So listen. Good. Thoughts on manual. Good questions fabled comic books role movie, you could replace the main curator from that movie with a crow you have vital wouldn't be. Thanks. Jesus. Now, though, I because I had some time to think about or go first, so I'm not big into into comic books, and I don't to be honest. I'm going to catch some hate on this probably, but I'm not into superhero movies anyways. But one that I really like and respect it's the whole dark Knight series. So my favorite is Batman. I just thought it was greatly shot. The cast was great everything about it was it was great fearing for the billionaire. So and if I had to pick an EMMY fighter to replace cushion bail. It would be Carlos Condit you'd fit in. He's got that that grin. You know, I don't know. Boy, natural killer. That's a good one. Let me think let me think. Favorite one while the dark? Knight was good, obviously. Favorite of all time. Good lord. There are a bunch of them. I'm not sure how to answer that. I mean, I really enjoyed ventures Finnity war, which I know is the latest of the big ones the best one. I saw recently was the animated one which was into the spider verse. Did you see it? No. It's phenomenal hurt is not the rotten tomatoes ratings audiences and critics. I would say the, you know, what's really liked as a kid the animated Batman series. It's dark and brooding. And there's not a lot of dialogue. It's really really good. I I was the best. It was the best comic book series ever brought to life. So which was also Batman, obviously. So yeah, I guess I don't know who had I replace him with you know, what just to have a little fun, Mike Perry. Let's make us make Mike Perry. The new Batman imagine. How great that would be fun today. Go different kind of that that many. Sure, I yet time for one. We do cool. This is a bit of an old question. But I feel like with what's happened with you have see and the pay per view has changed the conversation a bit. So okay. Let's let's hear it. Christian from St Louis call earlier, but I I don't think I specified enough. So my question is why are we not talking about? The fact there's way too much weight jumping between champs. Holloway as fine. I get that. And I said that when I dropped a call earlier, but Henry pseudo should be defending his own belt against twenty five years. Why is he moving up to thirty five to defend it or to fight for the belt when TJ is no longer in it. It made sense when TJ was around TJ's not around anymore beef doesn't make sense anymore. So why does that fight makes them Marlin? Mariah should be somebody there, but you get it. Yeah. I don't understand either other than that's what they probably think is best for sales, and or okay. Yeah. But yeah, it's best for sales. But with the UC PM pay per view deal, which guarantees them up front, right? It's supposed to be a pretty fat sum of money. I mean, does it even matter the ratings all that much anymore? Right. Like, yeah. It does a little bit. I mean on some level a little bit. You don't have to worry about putting on a pay per view. That's going to do one seventy or something like that. Because well, I don't support this decision. But on the other hand, we need to be careful. We're arguing here you do not want the matchmakers and the UFC so immune to market pressures that they no longer feel beholden to them, and they can go purely in a sporting context because here's the reality using the matchmaker model. Using the matchmaker model to subvert pure sporting criteria. Not all the time. But sometimes is going to end you up in a better place. I don't agree with the call here. I do think that pseudo should be fighting one twenty-five. But I guess my point is Danny you do want them to feel market pressure. So if they're if they're responding in a way where they are. I don't agree with this call, but I liked that general instinct, but okay. So if you had to do like a line of market pressure, and then I guess from the sporting standpoint, don't you think perhaps at least in my view, I feel like we're a little more leaning towards market pressure than we are on the sporting side. We absolutely are. They they're getting this one wrong. So wouldn't wouldn't that? Yes. Bien deal being exclusive to paper view, wouldn't that help that at least bring it back in balance. It a little more shore. I just don't want folks to say what does it matter anymore? It matters a long, right? Yeah. Of course, because it's not about maximizing sales as such. It's about. What the mentality is about maximizing sales, which is making sure Emma may is big enough that it stayed relevant enough just consciousness, that's the point. I make for sure I don't know. I still would I know we've talked about this at length. But like I still love to see Henry defend the belt at one twenty five. Even if you're going to close that division. All right, fine. Keep releasing the guys that you're releasing. But have the guy defend the built a couple? I agree. I agree. One more one more. Okay. Do you wanna talk about the chances home in Santos have or you saw and a lifetime ban. You saw them the lifetime ban. I do. I'm going to cut this Lukin dating Mike Philadelphia actually went to UC had a great time. The stadium was all what a lot of people that. I I expected. It was maybe my question is about you saw to get a lifetime ban. From you Saudi does that immediately nullify your of see contract, and there's no way they can keep contract, right? It doesn't back door somehow getting out of you see contracts, if you were willing to go that far also we know if you saw can and you can get a five year or ten year band just wondering about how long people can keep locked up and not fighting. Thanks bye. So okay. Two answers to that start with the first one you'll see has to give you fights. If they can't because you're banned by you Saad, I believe that they are contractually obligated to release you you will see Roussel mega mid of. If you continues to fight you'll see him in some. Overseas promotion, whether it's Japan or what's the threshold of time like say TJ dillashaw gets here. I mean, he's got at least one year ban. Right. Yeah. I mean, they can't give them fights. Obviously. Yeah. I haven't seen the language, but the idea there is that it's only temporary. There would presumably be able to do at some future date. So if its lifetime, you're I think what happens is freezes the contract. But if you're if there's no point that what you can be unfrozen than they're not able to fulfil the terms in which case the thing becomes null and void. So look he is going to be fighting. If you to fight in some fight for he fought for optimum believe, so he'll fight for you know, on Qadeer or rise in or somebody. He's not gonna fighting in they'll find again. First second of all he could under-funding for Bella tour because you might serve a spent according to the Commission's. But once that's over. They're not gonna lifetime ban him. So he could see him in bits, and they and they don't have to respect you saw certainly do not. So there's that. So as the second part could they five or ten years. Well, here's where it comes from. You see these things like two and four at eight years. This comes from the Olympic cycle. This is where it comes from the ideas that the Olympics every four years world championships typically every year they and this didn't get instituted until twenty fourteen or two thousand fifteen or maybe twenty thirteen twenty fourteen these are all still relatively new because Danny as I keep trying to tell people everything they keep trying keeps failing. So they keep ratcheting it up and the next levels to criminalize it, of course, they're gonna throw people in jail over this which are literally trying to do in any event. So the idea there is we get you to miss certain cycles. This Olympic cycle to Olympic cycles. Presumably, you could get an arbitrator. Panel to then reduce or up a four year suspension to five or reduce eight to five more up eight to ten but typically it goes in those two to four to eight year increments. And maybe panel could fudge it. Yeah. And why are we using these cycles if this year round sport professional sport with narrow window and we've borrowed from an Olympic cycle, which has nothing to do with the way in which our sports operate our sports operate month. Basically anything any suspension five years, or above is pretty much a death sentence may like you're done unless warning or something or twenty five I suppose, even then it would be horribly destructive. So yeah. But you know, you don't get a lot of people sympathizing. But the question is not about being going easy on the question is what kind of policies can you reasonably enact to either minimize the harm that these things. 'cause that's that's the that's the answer. And the answer is just the get tough policy. It didn't work for any other drug in the war on drugs. I don't know why people are confused and think it's going to work for this one. But okay, people have decided they would like to see this. Fail before they come around to my position. So I will wait. That's it. That's it. Hi, danny. Good job. Thank you. All right. I have another job. I have to go do. But with I we're not done here. We have to go to my interview with one Mr. Alston over him. I spoke to him yesterday about many things he's headlining UFC Saint Petersburg about Volkov about all bunch of stuff. I have to leave. So I want to thank all my guests, including Mr. over information time for me yesterday. Of course, you can keep sending tweets using the hashtag the MA. Our you can keep calling eight four four eight six six two four six eight. But for now, here's my interview with Alston ovary, and I'm joined now by UFC heavyweight Alistair ovary. All right Alistair. Let's get right into it. You know, what I was actually when I started on a bit of a different way. I know you're going to we'll talk about your fight with Alexia Lynn coming up here in the twentieth of April. But what's funny is you've been around really long time. You've seen a lot. What do you make of this move to streaming that all the promoters are doing do you like it or not? I don't have any pain or that actually not over talking about. Okay, streaming. It's next level. Right. You're you as promoter you want your content to be available to everybody. Everybody has a hand L. I guess it's just the next of Lucien put too much mind into it. Because your guy who's like, you're not in consequential places, you're either own big cards or men eventing. But I suppose it's not something you really terribly pay a lot of mine too. No, I'm not sure the public really just been on training camp and stuff that manage for me. And yeah, if it's streamed on the device and all that's small details. Twee enough. All right. How's colorado? I know you're out there with all of Asian fights. How's it going this time around? Actually liking your lock writing the state like new people and most you do restaurants. The team has been absolutely amazing humiliation, some very happy joined Bill thing every day to better mix more artists better fire, and yeah. Anxious to showcase new skills. Right. It's coming up. Thirteen years away. You know, what's interesting story. You have your guys mention before you've been around. You've seen a lot you've trained in a lot of places to you've gotten so many looks you've seen really the best that has had to offer in terms of training and coaching environment. Could you imagine yourself? How'd you stayed in like one or two places? If I want to dip probably retired. What? Well. As you can get compromised. It's not for everybody, but I have been compromised a couple times your career and to me it was do or die time. I had some exchanges. Sometimes they all of change, but it's to make change. But we'll continue my career. This. Let's go back to my last loss to critters bless that was two in a row because they had lost France. And then whilst crudeness, and I was out of Jackson's the chemistry there. We had a good chemistry. But it was just finished. And to me, I still don't fight. So you're going to keep doing something that doesn't work for you. Or you're gonna make changes and figure it out again. And to me I had to do to figure out again. I I still felt that could do that. Back then I was pretty seven thirty eight years old now. But yeah, I can still do it to do it. Is there any chance? There must be a challenge between going team two team. Like, the good side must be all the great training partners. All the great looks all the great coaches, right? All the best practices that you get to learn on the other hand, it must be hard to like learn how to meet all these new people all the time. Like, what are some of that? Okay. So let's forget I've been training for twenty six years. I I was my first pleasures Chevron. So it's it's it's it's to me, that's obvious. You're going to have at least a couple of different cancer. Well back in the day. He was. There was another issue. You would go for Cape box. This team you go for grappling to that. Go for wrestling to him. So it would be different gyms. Anyway. Now, it's more all in one house still, you know, Jackson hap- everything wrapping up for striking. Still, and you you just mentioned. Okay. When you go to your team, you're going to have to take it brought your old team. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if that's always a bad thing sometimes chemistry's done, and when when there's no clear direction, but there is direction fight. But there's no clear direction. There's not really good communication this. Good thing. That's changed. It might twenty six years changes actually, always been aggressively. Actually, the only the only place not change within the black to that was truly terrible. And. That show and I'm gonna change out of there. And it went better to to to to Jackson may. So that Kim she was finished because it's like every relationship in relationships things can can Kimber. She can go go down. It's not always a perfect marriage forever. Unfortunately, in in the past have say goodbye, the coach was perfectly okay with, but I have to do it because. Yeah, I wanna find that make the most of my career, and they special always live by. But face I wanna make the most of my Chris, you're gonna say goodbye to people to groups two teams to for not go. Yeah. That's that's ounce. That sounds right. Just piggybacking on that your guys is you will know who's seen the world seen all the best of a may gyms. It's less of an issue now, but you know, from a Brazilian culture and the just world if you change teams, they would call you a crianza or like a traitor and some of that bled. Emma may but that seems geographical right? Because you guys had a Europe. It doesn't seem like as much of a big deal. Maybe that's more of a South American kind of thing where people train change memes. It's the end of the world. Yeah. But but even in Brazil, you go you go there and you look at what happened to Brazilian top team. And then she'd box the ad unless chevalier shoebox Shogo shoebox come to the stage. Also, presented talk came big. Why did those fighters leave? Why would it Trey? There's there's. There's news out there that the teams were stealing there's practices. Of course. There's Napoli did happen to me golden Moore, of course, going to leak. You're not going to stand it situation. Somebody's gonna take advantage of so. Yeah, every case different. It is what it is is development is life. You know, you learn for for for everything that happens. All right. And then the end you're gonna get exactly what you have. Now is interesting as you mentioned it'll nation fight team. A great team you had just thought Curtis blades. Now you rebounded since then. But I'm wondering what your relationship is like with Curtis and how that has been sincere begin training with him. So we were actually voting before we fought actually, I just stepped up to after after Mark, hindsight and resell. They should go training together one time 'cause that was actually in the lack of spa important Jackson's and he responded positive. Let's dog we exchanged numbers we start texting. But then going on and we stop texting. Then the fight happened. I lost. I reached out to I'm going to be Denver tubes. Schiller combine he's really Paul's. Very open. Yeah. Come through Jimmy, Tex tagger the time and. Yeah. It's it's it's it's I mean, he's a great fighters. Great athlete. Great guy as well. Really? Actually, like him I've trained emits years. With of professionals, Walter champions, a lot of strong fighters and could favorites. No ego whatsoever. We don't discuss our fight we lift each are up to the Bella level. And. That's it's great to be part of the team. Great help on his journey to to grad this. Let's talk about your upcoming fight. You were supposed to take on Volkov. He gets yanked. And you're gonna face Alexi Olympic any thoughts about the opponent change. Well, so election, and I have a little bit of history where we're actually okay together. We're friends I like him a lot we helped him when this crow crow fight so thirteen and then he helped me on the frame fight. And then then he sung with you. She so I kind of knew some how somewhere that we might. And the fighting to get it to me. It's not a problem because we're not. Yeah. We're not t- mansion it's been years ago that we that we helped since fine. I kinda know what to expect. He's tough veteran fighter sneakers submission game. Yeah. It's it's fine. He's writing them or ten I think they'll eleven nine. Let me verify that he is ranked nine he is right now. None of question. What what happened to vocal? Do. You know, what happens? I don't. There's always a lot of rumors that are being spread. And I don't I don't want it. Look anytime someone. Is in a main event, and then it gets out of event or you have c- fight and gets out of fight, obviously everybody and their brother is going to say do what you sought violation. But I'm not sure that that has been confirmed by you saw it at this point. Oh, actually, you know, what actually I might be wrong about that. Here is the official. You have see statement if I can pull it up here. The official. You have statement is as follows a pull this up due to health issues. Alexander Volkov has been forced to withdraw from as Alastair over him. So they put up to health issues. I think there have been other unconfirmed reports from a Russian sites that have said it was due to an anti-doping violation. So it's a little bit murky at this juncture. Let's let that be. Yeah. Fair enough Olympic Lennox our game. You know, he's got this Zeki choke, which is kinda funny, although we did beat murkland without it with a different kind of win. At this point. You've seen so many looks right. Like, you don't wanna take a guy lightly? But I can't imagine you feel I don't know overly threatened by it. Okay. So the only thing is that vocal entirely different than than the actual. I think that's the only thing. But you know, what I had this one. When they came won't fight. It was extra training for pro. And then crow crawl something happened with you or something through. And then they came about our listen on the free cokes fights not happening. But you got five butter and cable, and I'm at this phase right now. I mean, a great shape. I feel ready wonderful. I wanna kick ass, and it is this. I'm ready. So doesn't really matter. What is sort of guidance cut you off? Go ahead. Finish your thought that I'm just ready to kick ass. It doesn't matter who what when where we're going to get it on. Aside from being ready, though, from your judgment is there a way to says what the wind gets you your previous opponent was ranked six one's nine. Then again, you put together wins in the heavyweight division. You never know what could happen from your vantage point. What do you see as the ultimate benefit of a win here? A win is a win win. And then after the figure out what's next, right? If you just need to keep stacking, those winds and then get your title. I'm not really I don't really look at the rankings. I'm just folks on the guy. So he's ranked ninth. That's it is what it is. What six six nights? That's kind of. Okay. Yeah. I think you're sitting seven at the moment. Yeah. Still good position to be in. Yeah. So you're to be thirty nine in may twenty nineteen big year few. If you put this together, you'll have back to back wins. What do you what do you hope to get out of this calendar year? If I spoke to you on January one twenty twenty where do you where do you want to be at that position? So I would like to fight another actually twice this year. Forgets timber than the end of the year and then Wyndham five dollars. Right. When you stick to me, January twenty we're going to be very happy because we're winning all over back in the willing him and in title contention. Is that what you need you need? What let's see once three more wins the idea at, but I'm I'm just fighting away. That's my goal. What do you make at the top of the division? It's a weird moment right now. Right. Because you got the champ who's out you thought Cain would come back and make some noise then he loses to Francis steep as kind of sitting out, and it's just not clear what what's happening at the top. What do you make of it? I don't make a lot of it. Because again rankings are rankings. You gotta you gotta see what happens bra because he coming back fills too weird situation coming back for title after that they're kings. Can't even so fighting still I heard something he's gonna be w w he did he did a Mexican professional wrestling league. Pretty recently. His coach says he's still going to come back. But you know, I guess it against win. I don't know giving less we've all due respect. Didn't look good. Didn't look on the diet. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. What did these ranking Cain right now? Is his ranking right now as we speak is eighty is one below you. So yeah, we'll see. We'll see what happens. What do you make my training on making? Sure. Everything around me, no doubt about it of Brock because your guy who fought if you beat him. It was good for your career, and he's still kind of floating out there. The either I say a media guy also kind of torn on the one hand, I get it, especially Daniel look for a big pay day. Okay. But it's like I'm just looking for the top of these divisions to move. And you got something going on lightweight to where you just can't get the top guys in motion. I dunno create some problems, you know. Yeah. I don't really haven't been about though, Brooke thing. I mean, it's all that. He. Yeah. Special rights doesn't Brock frog Brock that Brock this. But to me to me, it's to me is nothing special commutes big bigeye, you Bank that shit that especially about of course, we'll be watching community brought when their fight, but am I over Jask about the absolutely not? I wouldn't take what? Yeah. But then again, I would watch. I mean, it is going to be, you know, you never know you never know. What's gonna happen? That certainly don't he is as you mentioned, you know, at thirty nine years old you've had mazing career longevity. I'll start as I mentioned you've seen it all really ever made through. What's most important Evelyn's? I suspected answer to this question is going to be as long as you're feeling good. The answer is we'll just keep competing. But have you thought about I mean, look, I think this fair to say you probably closer to the end of your career than the beginning. You've been fighting for twenty plus years. Have you thought about what the next chapter is? I. Is that a lot of firehouse or halfway in? You let's fighting because back in the day like six five year I'd ever two months and even from crazy periods through six points in three months span. So now, it's like five year or dress? You're staying getting better gas. I don't know. It's it's it's it is less probably going to be another two years free as max. That five six seven five four five six seven fights. And then I'm gonna retire. I guess. But you feel pretty good though. Right. I'm one hundred. But I have to say that I'm doing a lot. I'm doing a lot to be healthy to sales. So it's a lot of a lot of nutrition them a lot of massage my or small special keeps me keeps me going. So do dry needling also mazing mazing miss that new methods since years doing that. So I'm doing a lot on recovery. And if I compare that to my early twenties, and then they have to do a lot of recovery back then. But now, I do and as long as you recover Ryan gray that can make my ten fifteen hours. We training. Like I early twenties. So that's that is kind of like the thing you if you're doing recovery if you're putting in the work. Yeah. Keep going, and then I guess we'll end on this. And I appreciate your time Alistair one thing that I've noticed you had JD have this big resurgence this past year this last few fights I have noticed that a lot of guys at heavyweight will have moments in their career with a surge. And then they fall then they surge again, and it'll fall again, then they surge again. So you tell me what is it about heavyweight were guys can have these like second or third acts where people write them off. And then they come surging right back. Jay, yes is war being fighting for for a long time now and your career. Of course, you're gonna have circumstance working get you at some point in your your life, and you and you go for it. And then you figure it out and you come back you get back in the winning column. But. Battiston? He's bells of Cain were remaining came back from that. He's been coming back a couple of times. I think when when applied keeps coming back that tells something about the character, just I guess, I guess he's just like me we love to fight game or stub don't give up. Fair enough. All right. Well, we can't wait for it. You have see on ESPN plus seven this'll be April twentieth in Saint Petersburg Russia. We take on Alexia Linic in the main event all-star. Thank you so much for your time. Looking forward to your next fight, and you to look and thank you so much. Hello. It's me Ashley carbon. I'm Caitlyn Tiffany. And we are the host of the virgin podcast. Why'd you push that button. It's a show that hard weird occasionally dumb questions about how tiny tech decisions impact, your socialites. So we're asking questions like how do you choose your skin tone emoji? And why do you do your tweets every episode? We talked to users and experts to get to the bottom of these questions that we're confronted with every day. 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